A40:

That was an old ass team. Far older by several years than any team the GOAT ever beat yet all we hear is excuses.

Splitter and Diaw combined for less than 10pts and 5rebs. Lool

That is to show you how weak this era is. Old man Duncan and Ginobili at 37 and 36 were still laying the smackdown on the supposed bigger, stronger athletic players of this era. Tragic

LOL But there are many instances of old teams making finals in the 80s and 90s. That was a deep, experienced and well coached team.


And can you stop this whole weak era argument? Clotheslining people and punching them in the face is not a substitute for skill and talent.

A40:
Lmaooooooo you people are ridiculous. Magic was an All-NBA, MVP and all-star MVP the previous season. This cadaver was 22-8-12 in the playoffs and they went two rounds further in 91

Worthy missed just one game. Whereas fast forward to 2020 you lot are already jizzin your shorts about LeNomad facing an underdog Heat team missing it's starting PG and Center for 80% and 60% of it's games respectively.

The 'GOAT scorer' has never done it on his own so scratch that. There is only one GOAT scorer and he retired several years ago.

LeNomad took the easy way to rings joining up with a Finals MVP Dwyane Wade who carried the 06 Heat to a Championship in his 3rd year in the league, One of the best big men shooter and a surefire HOFer. Added Ray Allen the second best shooter of all-time. And other complementary pieces. A team that somehow should have won a 4peat but somehow contrived to barely win just two rings

Golden State were merely there to enact Karma and give LeNomad a taste of what the rest of the league felt when the Heatles were formed. LeNomad is not the only player entitled to easy rings

Worthy was hobbled throughout that series. There can be an argument for Kareem, Kobe, Wilt, KD and Harden for being the greatest scorers of all time, depends on how you choose to look at it.

Where was LeBrons good karma for getting beat up by 4 hall of famers in 2007 finals? or having to go through KG Allen PP and Rondo?

Remember that Bosh first ballot HOF argument we had? well he flamed out on his first attempt. The Ray Allen that played for the heat did hit the greatest shot in NBA history but other than that was no better than a Kyle Korver, bringing him up is like bringing up cavs Shaq to say Bron played with Shaq. Then theres wade who exponentially regressed after 2011 and by 2014 was no longer the same player.

Some players get easy rings because they have a competent front office. Why shouldnt players get to build teams to compete and go against established teams?

As for the Miami heat, after all the bad luck Bron has had in the finals, he deserves to have a cakewalk, just like your goat did most of the time.

See man, you have a way of throwing facts out there without any context. . Not that your statement is wrong in itself, it's just carefully selected to ignore everthing else. . Our argument on this GOAT issue has always been varied. And losing in the first round to a team of Hall of famers is definitely a failing. I mean whoever says MJ did have his own share of failures is delusional. We are comparing MJ to Lebron, so MJs failing and successes to Lebron's failings and successes.
I am fine with asking personal questions, but i would assume you have thought about it well enough and believe it's something that should be talked about on this platform. And if you do ask it, i can defintely decide not to answer it. . But i trust you are sane enough to understand boundaries.

WeissVonner:


So carrying a pack of bums to the finals and losing to a team of multiple hall of famers is a minor failing but losing in the first round to a team of hall of famers is not a minor failing.

Can I ask you a personal question?

benji93:
See man, you have a way of throwing facts out there without any context. . Not that your statement is wrong in itself, it's just carefully selected to ignore everthing else. . Our argument on this GOAT issue has always been varied. And losing in the first round to a team of Hall of famers is definitely a failing. I mean whoever says MJ did have his own share of failures is delusional. We are comparing MJ to Lebron, so MJs failing and successes to Lebron's failings and successes.
I am fine with asking personal questions, but i would assume you have thought about it well enough and believe it's something that should be talked about on this platform. And if you do ask it, i can defintely decide not to answer it. . But i trust you are sane enough to understand boundaries.

LOL. So when you lot say 3-6, what is that?

nairamaniac:


My top 5 of all time based on unbiased skill setup:
1. Jordan
2. Lebron
3. Magic
4. Olajuwon
5. Between Bird/Kareem


Honorable mention in Top 10 should be Kevin Durant, Duncan.

That guy called Durant (if he leads to win another chip, he should be clearly ahead of bird, worthy, pippen, Barkley, Malone) as a forward. No homo.
Durant is at worst a Top-10 ever to me. No one with that height has ever shot the ball so well in the history of the league.
And he depends the least on physical a contact than any other great player in anyone's TOP10.
if only he stayed as OKC and lead to a title, he shd clearly be in Top-10 to Top-8 ever by now.


But if u ask me top10 ever with bias to storylines, inspirational influence, career attraction, who I loved from my heart. Having one reason or another to just love the player.

1. Jordan
2. Iverson
3. Lebron
4. John Stockton
5. Magic/bird


Then best players currently and for past 5seasons;

1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Curry
4. Kawhi(for showing up in 2 NBA finals)
5. Harden/Anthony Davis

Thanks for the reply, I just started following NBA of recent, I try watching clips of games time to time whenever I can, its hard watching NBA games live cos of time factors and some other stuffs,,
So far I think I love lebron, he made me fall in love with Basketball
My best players in the league are.
Lebron
Irving
Trae young
Curry
Ad
Victor oladipooooo

Don't know much about legends tho but I like
Kobe
Dwayne wade
Bosh
Luis scola

That's comparing championships won and nothing more.That's saying this guy never gets to finals and not win it all. But that's not enough for you guys. It's understandable though. . You then go further and tell us that he went to 9 finals, currently featuring in his tenth and then we tell you nobody remembers the second placed entity in the Olympic games. We talk about Usain Bolt, cos he won gold. But 10 finals is no joke, does that make you happy?

WeissVonner:


LOL. So when you lot say 3-6, what is that?

@WeissVonner and @steady986 are happy to tell you more about Lebron's achievements. . They are always on standby.

Tinneh:


Thanks for the reply, I just started following NBA of recent, I try watching clips of games time to time whenever I can, its hard watching NBA games live cos of time factors and some other stuffs,,
So far I think I love lebron, he made me fall in love with Basketball
My best players in the league are.
Lebron
Irving
Trae young
Curry
Ad
Victor oladipooooo

Don't know much about legends tho but I like
Kobe
Dwayne wade
Bosh
Luis scola

benji93:
That's comparing championships won and nothing more.That's saying this guy never gets to finals and not win it all. But that's not enough for you guys. It's understandable though. . You then go further and tell us that he went to 9 finals, currently featuring in his tenth and then we tell you nobody remembers the second placed entity in the Olympic games. We talk about Usain Bolt, cos he won gold. But 10 finals is no joke, does that make you happy?

LOL Do you realize how dumb this sounds? Is there anyone who plays in the postseason not to win? Why does losing in the postseason only matter when you get further along the line?

Can I ask you a personal question?

I believe i now understand what your perosnal question means. . We are not comparing two people that are just anyone. So your argument on that note is kinda not useful. Magic johnson has been to 9 finals, but nobody says he's GOAT over MJ. But ofcourse you could bring him in to help your case. . Ofcourse we all want to win, but we don't all get to win and the extent to which we win may vary. The ultimate goal of being there is to win the Championship. Some never won the finals, cos there was someone better. We all wish it but it may never manifest, or it manifest to different degrees. It's what it is.

WeissVonner:


LOL Do you realize how dumb this sounds? Is there anyone who plays in the postseason not to win? Why does losing in the postseason only matter when you get further along the line?

Can I ask you a personal question?

benji93:
I believe i now understand what your perosnal question means. . We are not comparing two people that are just anyone. So your argument on that note is kinda not useful. Magic johnson has been to 9 finals, but nobody says he's GOAT over MJ. But ofcourse you could bring him in to help your case. . Ofcourse we all want to win, but we don't all get to win and the extent to which we win may vary. The ultimate goal of being there is to win the Championship. Some never won the finals, cos there was someone better. We all wish it but it may never manifest, or it manifest to different degrees. It's what it is.

MJ was declared the GOAT after he won 3 titles. Thats what the statue built after those three wins said. This goal post movements and illogical arguments only started when people realized Bron posed a legitimate threat to his legacy. Before Kareem Wilt was considered the GOAT, better than Russell who mostly got the better of him and Wilt only had 2 championships with a losing finals record. The finals record thing only started with LeBron. Its a shameful way for old people to preserve their sentimental beliefs.

My personal question is this, and trust me I have been meaning to ask you this for a very long time.

Have you ever been tested for idiocy?

MJ was 3 out of 3 in the finals. I cannot speak for the people that were callign him the GOAT then. I ma speaking for my self now. I'll never consider Kareem the GOAT for several reasons, which you may be aware of. Besides what is this? Ofcourse another can supercede one in the GOAT conversation. Was MJ playing when WIlt or Russel was?
And regarding your question. I am not quite annoyed or surprised by it. It's your way and it's fine. But i have a question for you as well. Have you been tested for Multiple personality Disorder? I believe that's the better question to ask. .

WeissVonner:


MJ was declared the GOAT after he won 3 titles. Thats what the statue built after those three wins said. This goal post movements and illogical arguments only started when people realized Bron posed a legitimate threat to his legacy. Before Kareem Wilt was considered the GOAT, better than Russell who mostly got the better of him and Wilt only had 2 championships with a losing finals record. The finals record thing only started with LeBron. Its a shameful way for old people to preserve their sentimental beliefs.

My personal question is this, and trust me I have been meaning to ask you this for a very long time.

Have you ever been tested for idiocy?

benji93:
MJ was 3 out of 3 in the finals. I cannot speak for the people that were callign him the GOAT then. I ma speaking for my self now. I'll never consider Kareem the GOAT for several reasons, which you may be aware of. Besides what is this? Ofcourse another can supercede one in the GOAT conversation. Was MJ playing when WIlt or Russel was?
And regarding your question. I am not quite annoyed or surprised by it. It's your way and it's fine. But i have a question for you as well. Have you been tested for Multiple personality Disorder? I believe that's the better question to ask. .

Doesn't matter, point is Kareem was the unanimous GOAT before MJ.

If you will never consider Kareem the GOAT, thats your prerogative, same way me saying I will never consider MJ the GOAT is my prerogative.

My question is why was Wilt considered better than Russell when russell had more rings and a winning finals record when kareem had far fewer rings and a losing finals record. Those two arguments were never used against Wilt then but with LeBron people are moving goalposts.

Why will you be annoyed by me asking a legitimate question?

BPD or not, you can't refute my arguments.

WeissVonner:


LOL But there are many instances of old teams making finals in the 80s and 90s. That was a deep, experienced and well coached team.


And can you stop this whole weak era argument? Clotheslining people and punching them in the face is not a substitute for skill and talent.

Show me one team in the 80's and 90's with it's best player literally 38 years old.

If that team is as good as you cracked it up to be then don't come here to talk smack about the Lakers and Pistons that combined for 7 titles and double digit finals appearances

I have told you there is nothing more skillful and talented about this era, every player you see today had a prototype. What we have is a proliferation of 3pt attempts. And increased pace that leads to more possessions and ability to pad stats at a higher clip.

A40:

Show me one team in the 80's and 90's with it's best player literally 38 years old.

If that team is as good as you cracked it up to be then don't come here to talk smack about the Lakers and Pistons that combined for 7 titles and double digit finals appearances

I have told you there is nothing more skillful and talented about this era, every player you see today had a prototype. What we have is a proliferation of 3pt attempts. And increased pace that leads to more possessions and ability to pad stats at a higher clip.

Everyone knows the Spurs had no clear cut best player. When they won in 2014, there were four legitimate candidates for FMVP.

LOL Nutrition is better, scouting is better, player development is better, theres a larger talent pool. The best players in literally every sport bar ice hockey are playing in this era. All the athletics records are from this era. Somehow you old heads want us to believe only basketball got worse or remained stagnant after three decades.

I have way more respect for Jimmy than I did for KD in 2017 and 2018 even though unlike KD, Jimmy is about to lose.

nairamaniac:


I very very much agree with you on this though. Believe me I agree with much lesser/fewer side of your arguments than I do with A40.

I don't tonguetwist things.

You have no idea what you just started on this thread do you?

Hello, do anyone here know if AD will be available for Game 6

arukwe123:
Hello, do anyone here know if AD will be available for Game 6

He's fine. But if you're thinking of placing a bet, AD or no AD, I'd strongly advise against betting on the Heat.

WeissVonner:


Worthy was hobbled throughout that series. There can be an argument for Kareem, Kobe, Wilt, KD and Harden for being the greatest scorers of all time, depends on how you choose to look at it.

Worthy was healthy enough to play 41 minutes per game the entire series. I don't want to hear that hobbled nonsense. If you can play 45+ minutes in 2 of the 4 games then you're fine.

I'm sorry I don't rate players who's scoring and efficiency dips when the heat of the playoffs arrive as the best scorers

WeissVonner:


Where was LeBrons good karma for getting beat up by 4 hall of famers in 2007 finals? or having to go through KG Allen PP and Rondo?

4 HOFers? It was Duncan, Ginobili and Parker. LeNomad ran through a weak and watery East anyway they had no business being in the Finals. The #1 seed was

He only went through them twice and bolted to the Heat to try and bully the league for the rest of his prime but alas the league had other plans

WeissVonner:

Remember that Bosh first ballot HOF argument we had? well he flamed out on his first attempt. The Ray Allen that played for the heat did hit the greatest shot in NBA history but other than that was no better than a Kyle Korver, bringing him up is like bringing up cavs Shaq to say Bron played with Shaq. Then theres wade who exponentially regressed after 2011 and by 2014 was no longer the same player.

Bosh is a HOFer whether first or fifteenth ballot.
Ray Allen was there for two seasons in a team that had 3 HOF candidates. Which team apart from the Grandpa Spurs and Celtics had that luxury?

Anyway all your arguments are just standard excuses. Go and check Pippen's numbers in their second 3peat and come back to tell me he did not regress as well

WeissVonner:

Some players get easy rings because they have a competent front office. Why shouldnt players get to build teams to compete and go against established teams?

As for the Miami heat, after all the bad luck Bron has had in the finals, he deserves to have a cakewalk, just like your goat did most of the time.

So why do you lot cry ad nauseum about KD and the Warriors. LeNomad has been consistently gaming the system. In his prime he joined up with his draft mates then when they declined he handpicked younger players to team with. Unfortunately KD went one better

When the wheels fell off in Miami and Cleveland he did what any good nomad would. Take his nomadic talents to the Lakers to team up with a player 9 years younger. And then tried to recruit another one 7 years younger and they just so happened to be 2 of the best 7 players in the league. What is more cakewalk like that

MJ faced and beat more 60+ win teams than LeNomad so we know who the real cakewalker is

Danny Green said his fiance received death threats after game 5. Sports fans are absolutely disgusting man. A whole NBA game is not about one play, the lakers gave away a 6 point possession and multiple four point possessions. Even if everything was on him, people need to realize its just a game man.

A lot of these guys are probably people who bet on the Lakers winning too. SMH

WeissVonner:


Everyone knows the Spurs had no clear cut best player. When they won in 2014, there were four legitimate candidates for FMVP.

Two of the best 4 players on the Spurs were 36+. They were an extremely old team that were able to dominate without being bigger, stronger, athletic and all that other adjectives and superlatives you lot bandy around

[quote author=WeissVonner post=94840492]
LOL Nutrition is better, scouting is better, player development is better, theres a larger talent pool. The best players in literally every sport bar ice hockey are playing in this era. All the athletics records are from this era. Somehow you old heads want us to believe only basketball got worse or remained stagnant after three decades.

This is what recency bias makes you believe. Humans have not evolved that much over 30 years. Not in Sports anyway.

All the athletics records are from what? Who has broken Flo-Jo's record in both 100 and 200m?
Long jump, high jump, pole vault, shotput, javelin both men and women every single record has yet to be broken over 30 years later by the supposed better scouted, better developed and better nourished players of today.

Stop repeating this myth and Urban legend. There is nothing exceptional about this era

A40:

Worthy was healthy enough to play 41 minutes per game the entire series. I don't want to hear that hobbled nonsense. If you can play 45+ minutes in 2 of the 4 games then you're fine.

I'm sorry I don't rate players who's scoring and efficiency dips when the heat of the playoffs arrive as the best scorers

He got injured in the WCF and ultimately had to sit out the close out game, Worthy being injured is always going to be a footnote.

Like I said, depending on how you want to define it, a case can be made for all those guys being the greatest scorer of all time.

4 HOFers? It was Duncan, Ginobili and Parker. LeNomad ran through a weak and watery East anyway they had no business being in the Finals. The #1 seed was

He only went through them twice and bolted to the Heat to try and bully the league for the rest of his prime but alas the league had other plans

And their coach, isn't a Hall of famer?

He had a front office led by arguably the worst owner in basketball. The best player he played with in Cleveland was Mo Williams, an accidental all-star. If he had never left, he'd probably end up ringless. Regardless of how it played out, it was monumental for his legacy and in hindsight was inarguably the right move.

Bosh is a HOFer whether first or fifteenth ballot.
Ray Allen was there for two seasons in a team that had 3 HOF candidates. Which team apart from the Grandpa Spurs and Celtics had that luxury?

Anyway all your arguments are just standard excuses. Go and check Pippen's numbers in their second 3peat and come back to tell me he did not regress as well

And in those two seasons Ray Allen was a spot up shooter no better than Kyle Korver. Bringing him up is akin to bringing up Gary Payton and Karl Malone on the Lakers.

So why do you lot cry ad nauseum about KD and the Warriors. LeNomad has been consistently gaming the system. In his prime he joined up with his draft mates then when they declined he handpicked younger players to team with. Unfortunately KD went one better

When the wheels fell off in Miami and Cleveland he did what any good nomad would. Take his nomadic talents to the Lakers to team up with a player 9 years younger. And then tried to recruit another one 7 years younger and they just so happened to be 2 of the best 7 players in the league. What is more cakewalk like that

MJ faced and beat more 60+ win teams than LeNomad so we know who the real cakewalker is

I said create a competitive team to go at established teams not join established teams.

Hear me, hear me now, I will never respect what KD did in 2016. That was by far the biggest b-tch move in NBA history and no matter how muddied the waters posterity will judge him for that, history will always remember that. Its one thing to play the system, its another thing to cheat the system. We've had this conversation a million times, what LeBron did and what KD did are vastly different.

LeBron went back to Cleveland to end a drought bring a Championship to his hometown/franchise and fulfill his promise. Then he went to LA for business purposes and to cement his legacy. He embraced the pressure of wearing purple and gold knowing he will be a failure without a championship. He went there knowing how much he must do to win the fan base over, he's about to deliver.

60 wins in the 90s and 60 wins now are vastly different, listen to what your man Rodman had to say and hes 100% right:

"This league is so filtered and watered down, we can beat anybody with our eyes closed, pretty much" [a look back on the NBAs late 90s 'expansion era''

I also picked up a few other quotes for you:

Charles Barkley and Larry Bird have expressed comparable sentiments about the way the league has thinned out; Bird even used the Jazz as an example, and people in the Jazz camp have a hard time disagreeing.

"You look at the overall picture, it is diluted to some extent," said Jazz coach Jerry Sloan, whose team is in Los Angeles preparing to meet the Lakers on Friday night. "You can get by with three great players on a team, and have a chance to win it all. Before, you had to have four or five great players, and some good players around them."

...

What Boone worries about is talk of even more expansion. He says the NBA is already a league of guys who can run and jump but don't know how to play the game.

"What I'm concerned about is the lack of good shooters," he said. "Guys are more athletic now, but they're not fundamentally sound. How much more expansion can they do?"

in the '96-97 season , ten teams were able to roll off 50+ wins (including 69-win Chicago, 64-win Utah, 61-win Miami) . In the 2018-19 season, there were eight 50+ win teams (with 60-win Milwaukee as the league leader)

This was also a league where zone defense was illegal making it hard to double or trap a player. Like I said, clotheslining people is no substitute for real talent.

Sorry A40, Flo Jo should be scratched from that list. It screams steroid-induced!

[quote author=A40 post=94842151][/quote]

Dude, can you stop with this inane argument? There's not a single expert on athletics who wouldn't agree that athletes today are generally faster stronger and more educated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world_records_in_athletics

The vast majority of these records are from the 21st century. There are lot more players in the NBA with a 40" vertical than in the 90s. This isn't even really an argument.

DeeMain:


Sorry A40, Flo Jo should be scratched from that list. It screams steroid-induced!

Really didnt want to bring that up, I'm glad you did. But to be fair, most professional athletes are.

DeeMain:


Sorry A40, Flo Jo should be scratched from that list. It screams steroid-induced!

Did you catch her using steroids? Why is her record still standing

She never ever failed a drug test even after being singled out for rigorous testing. You guys should stop disrespecting the dead with spurious allegations just to defend LeNomad and athletes of this era. Show some decency

WeissVonner:


Dude, can you stop with this inane argument? There's not a single expert on athletics who wouldn't agree that athletes today are generally faster stronger and more educated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world_records_in_athletics

The vast majority of these records are from the 21st century. There are lot more players in the NBA with a 40" vertical than in the 90s. This isn't even really an argument.

You're the one dropping inane arguments. Even from the link you posted you can see that on the women side from the 100m to 1000m the record was set upwards of 25 years ago.

You can also see that all the long distance and field records for men (bar pole vault) and most of the field records for women were from 2 to 3 decades ago or more

What does having a higher vertical have to do with anything? Not that you have even proven this

A40:
You're the one dropping inane arguments. Even from the link you posted you can see that on the women side from the 100m to 1000m the record was set upwards of 25 years ago.

You can also see that all the long distance and field records for men (bar pole vault) and most of the field records for women were from 2 to 3 decades ago or more

What does having a higher vertical have to do with anything? Not that you have even proven this

Next time I'm arguing about the WNBA GOAT I'll be sure to bring that up.

What does having a high vertical have to do with a sport where being able to jump gives you a supreme advantage? LOL Most of the players with a 40" vertical were all stars in the 90s, we have bench players with 40'' verticals now. I think the improved athleticism of NBA players is something even former players have noted.

Bron and AD shot over 65% from the field, no other Laker shot over 40%.

Players I'm especially expecting a better game from today:

Everyone not named Bron or AD.

And of course, I expect Game 6 LeBron today.

WeissVonner:

He got injured in the WCF and ultimately had to sit out the close out game, Worthy being injured is always going to be a footnote.

Like I said, depending on how you want to define it, a case can be made for all those guys being the greatest scorer of all time.

Once you suit up and take the court you're healthy. That is my mantra. No excuses. No stories. Because you lot did not keep the same energy when Steph played with a knee injury the entire postseason of 2016. There is no footnote. MJ wiped them and James Worthy played in 3 of the 4 losses featuring in at least 31 minutes

WeissVonner:

And their coach, isn't a Hall of famer?

He's on the court?

WeissVonner:

He had a front office led by arguably the worst owner in basketball. The best player he played with in Cleveland was Mo Williams, an accidental all-star. If he had never left, he'd probably end up ringless. Regardless of how it played out, it was monumental for his legacy and in hindsight was inarguably the right move.

Whose fault is it that free agents were not falling over themselves to play in Cleveland? Dan Gilbert wheeled and dealed to get as much talent as he could bring to Cleveland. MJ met a team that was labeled the traveling cocaine circus and made the best out of it

I don't blame LeNomad for leaving. I'm indifferent. But it's hypocrisy of the highest order to police people's rights to do likewise

WeissVonner:

And in those two seasons Ray Allen was a spot up shooter no better than Kyle Korver. Bringing him up is akin to bringing up Gary Payton and Karl Malone on the Lakers.

Still a HOFer and saved the Heat's season. He actually averaged double figures in that series and your guy needed every point

WeissVonner:

I said create a competitive team to go at established teams not join established teams.

Hear me, hear me now, I will never respect what KD did in 2016. That was by far the biggest b-tch move in NBA history and no matter how muddied the waters posterity will judge him for that, history will always remember that. Its one thing to play the system, its another thing to cheat the system. We've had this conversation a million times, what LeBron did and what KD did are vastly different.

That is your personal problem. So long as Golden State actively recruited him then he has the right to join his best option for a ring after spending 9 years in Oklahoma. LeNomad ran away after 7 to join two other players in the middle of their basketball prime

We've had the conversation before and I say to you again who are you LeNomad fans to judge what KD did as worse? Both took shortcut to rings. Simple as that.

There are numerous players that never cheated the system. The likes of Dirk, Malone, Miller, Olajuwon never gained the system till they won rings and the others were not so lucky. So if LeBron did who are you to question KD's right to go one step further?

WeissVonner:

LeBron went back to Cleveland to end a drought bring a Championship to his hometown/franchise and fulfill his promise. Then he went to LA for business purposes and to cement his legacy. He embraced the pressure of wearing purple and gold knowing he will be a failure without a championship. He went there knowing how much he must do to win the fan base over, he's about to deliver.

Good for him. KD has gone to Brooklyn to do similar. We shall see how it turns out.

Running to LA in hopes of getting 2 of the best 7 players in the league is hardly a difficult task. A lot of player's legacies would be different if they bunny hopped round the league joining up with the best talent as frequently as LeNomad did. His career is like 2K

WeissVonner:

60 wins in the 90s and 60 wins now are vastly different, listen to what your man Rodman had to say and hes 100% right:

"This league is so filtered and watered down, we can beat anybody with our eyes closed, pretty much" [a look back on the NBAs late 90s 'expansion era''

I also picked up a few other quotes for you:

Charles Barkley and Larry Bird have expressed comparable sentiments about the way the league has thinned out; Bird even used the Jazz as an example, and people in the Jazz camp have a hard time disagreeing.

"You look at the overall picture, it is diluted to some extent," said Jazz coach Jerry Sloan, whose team is in Los Angeles preparing to meet the Lakers on Friday night. "You can get by with three great players on a team, and have a chance to win it all. Before, you had to have four or five great players, and some good players around them."

Yet Jerry Sloan did not win a ring, Barkley didn't either

LeNomad got to the Finals facing two of the worst #1 seeds in league history.

In MJ's first 3peat there were literally no sub 20 win teams so there wasn't a single team being used to pad stats unlike now that we have teams openly tanking.

WeissVonner:

What Boone worries about is talk of even more expansion. He says the NBA is already a league of guys who can run and jump but don't know how to play the game.

"What I'm concerned about is the lack of good shooters," he said. "Guys are more athletic now, but they're not fundamentally sound. How much more expansion can they do?"

in the '96-97 season , ten teams were able to roll off 50+ wins (including 69-win Chicago, 64-win Utah, 61-win Miami) . In the 2018-19 season, there were eight 50+ win teams (with 60-win Milwaukee as the league leader)

This was also a league where zone defense was illegal making it hard to double or trap a player. Like I said, clotheslining people is no substitute for real talent.

You don't want me flooding this page with YouTube clips of MJ facing the Zone like I did when you erroneously claimed MJ didn't guard Magic after Game 1 of the 91 Finals but you ended up by yourself proving MJ was his primary defender the entire series

WeissVonner:


Next time I'm arguing about the WNBA GOAT I'll be sure to bring that up.

What does having a high vertical have to do with a sport where being able to jump gives you a supreme advantage? LOL Most of the players with a 40" vertical were all stars in the 90s, we have bench players with 40'' verticals now. I think the improved athleticism of NBA players is something even former players have noted.

Tim Duncan, Ginobili, Tony Parker were players that could barely jump over a kerb, we saw Jokic dismantling teams with zero leaping abilities

What does verticals have to do with fundamentals, footwork and ball handling and basketball IQ. If verticals was what it took then Aaron Gordon should be the best player in the league

A40:
Once you suit up and take the court you're healthy. That is my mantra. No excuses. No stories. Because you lot did not keep the same energy when Steph played with a knee injury the entire postseason of 2016. There is no footnote. MJ wiped them and James Worthy played in 3 of the 4 losses featuring in at least 31 minutes

Steph played with a knee injury? first i'm hearing of it. And do you not blame LeBron for losing without both Kyrie and Love in 2015? That was a hobbled reflection of the Lakers and you know it. Credit to him, that was still the best team he beat.

He's on the court?

I think its worth pointing out that that Spurs team was coached by arguably the greatest coach of all time.

Whose fault is it that free agents were not falling over themselves to play in Cleveland? Dan Gilbert wheeled and dealed to get as much talent as he could bring to Cleveland. MJ met a team that was labeled the traveling cocaine circus and made the best out of it

I don't blame LeNomad for leaving. I'm indifferent. But it's hypocrisy of the highest order to police people's rights to do likewise

At least he had a competent front office that showed some promise.

Good, I have never blamed any player for going to another team to compete against another established team.

Still a HOFer and saved the Heat's season. He actually averaged double figures in that series and your guy needed every point

Right, I forgot, Bron is the only great not allowed to have teammates or role players make shots.

That is your personal problem. So long as Golden State actively recruited him then he has the right to join his best option for a ring after spending 9 years in Oklahoma. LeNomad ran away after 7 to join two other players in the middle of their basketball prime

We've had the conversation before and I say to you again who are you LeNomad fans to judge what KD did as worse? Both took shortcut to rings. Simple as that.

There are numerous players that never cheated the system. The likes of Dirk, Malone, Miller, Olajuwon never gained the system till they won rings and the others were not so lucky. So if LeBron did who are you to question KD's right to go one step further?

Be honest, what would you have said if LeBron had joined the Celtics in 2010 after immediately losing to them?

Its not just Bron fans, everyone with a iota of sense can see how insipid KDs move was. Is anyone blaming him for creating a formidable team with Kyrie now? There are moves borne out of trying to compete, KDs move was just a proverbial cant beat them join them kind of move. Thats the epitome of weakness.

Good for him. KD has gone to Brooklyn to do similar. We shall see how it turns out.

Running to LA in hopes of getting 2 of the best 7 players in the league is hardly a difficult task. A lot of player's legacies would be different if they bunny hopped round the league joining up with the best talent as frequently as LeNomad did. His career is like 2K

I'm happy for KD, One ring with the Nets will be more valuable than those two with the Warriors. Now we'll see what he's really made of.

Without Kawhi, as far back as January when you lot were still high on the Clippers, Bron came out and said he felt the Lakers had enough to win a championship. Kawhi is a luxury.

Yet Jerry Sloan did not win a ring, Barkley didn't either

Thats neither here no there. Has nothing to do with how top heavy the 90s was.

LeNomad got to the Finals facing two of the worst #1 seeds in league history.

And both teams would arguably beat any team Jordan faced in the finals. If they are such horrible one seeds, how did they make the finals?

In MJ's first 3peat there were literally no sub 20 win teams so there wasn't a single team being used to pad stats unlike now that we have teams openly tanking.

Didnt your man make the playoffs with 30 wins at some point?

You don't want me flooding this page with YouTube clips of MJ facing the Zone like I did when you erroneously claimed MJ didn't guard Magic after Game 1 of the 91 Finals but you ended up by yourself proving MJ was his primary defender the entire series

Posting one or two videos of Jordan facing zone doesn't change the fact that for the most part of the era he played in it was difficult for teams to pull it off consistently because it would be deemed illegal.

The argument was never about MJ guarding Magic but rather the fact that Magic torched him which you can't deny. It was also about proving how Pippen alleviated some of those duties which i proved.