samuk:


When the Europeans first visited Ife The so called sophisticated cradle of Yoruba civilisation and culture.

When did Chinese visit Benin the so-called principal city of Edo?

TAO11:
No Beninprince became a King in anywhere in Lagos.

That was the Benin account of Egharevba which he published in the 1950s and which became popular due to the authors popularity.

The attached below is the Lagos account which was published decades before Egharevba by Sir Alan Burns in 1929. The same account had been published in 1879 and in 1914.

When did the Europeans first visited Ife The so called sophisticated cradle of Yoruba civilisation and culture. Oh I forgot, an Arab traveller penned something about it.

Trying to make one small village bigger than it ever was, an impossible task.

samuk:
When did the Europeans first visited Ife The so called sophisticated cradle of Yoruba civilisation and culture. Oh I forgot, an Arab traveller penned something about it.

Trying to make one small village bigger than it ever was, an impossible task.

Dumb ass! When did the Chinese first visit Benin?

Anyways, the Europeans (your gods) visited Yorubaland before they visit Benin.

Moreover, your gods (the Europeans) dared not visit Ife in the 1400s because (according to Ibn Battuta) they would be killed by the Ife people even before they arrived. Hahaha! See attached.

Obalufon:
Lol you are obsessed with the whites see Oni ke ..He was too power to be seen by no one ..Oni is a living god

He gets the gist. He just hates the fact that his gods (the EUrOpEaNs) visited Yorubaland before Benin kingdom.

Hence, his diversionary tactics. He may find the quotation below of Ibn Battuta interesting to appreciate what Ife was in the 1300s.

@Obalufon, you may want to revisit my reply to your comment on the Lagos/Benin relationship. Let’s stop repeating the Benin account of Egharevba.

The Lagos account debunks it blatantly on specific matters such as who Ashipa is — Yoruba or Edo?; and of how the Binis settled in Lagos — peacefully or via conquest?

Moreover, the Lagos account was documented and published many decades (more than fifty years) before Egharevba came up with his strange contrary claims which as expected became very popular.

TheLionofLasigi

TAO11:
It doesn’t matter who you idolize, kid.

Your whites visited Yorubaland before they visited Benin.

And the period of EUrOpEaN documentation for Yorubaland and Benin is the same.

The only gap is that between Ife and Benin in which Ife was documented a 100 years before Benin can be noticed in any writing any where in the whole wide world.

Cc: Obalufon

Benin Kingdom is part of Ile-ife is nothing but a jungle kingdom that we civilized they are still brain dead till now.. We have been documented when whole of Europe were illiterate when it was a crime to read and write in Europe , my forefathers were writing in Ajami and teaching as scholar in sankore university fact are out there not a myth Ahmed baba wrote about Yoruba people ..Even Ibn Battuta world renown traveler and historian

Obalufon:
Benin Kingdom is part of Ile-ife is nothing but a jungle kingdom that we civilized they are still brain dead till now.. We have been documented when whole of Europe were illiterate when it was a crime to read in Europe writing my forefathers were writing in Ajami and teaching scholar in sankore Ahmed baba wrote about Yoruba people ..Even Ibn Battuta world renown traveler and historian

Don’t mind the naughty poor little Benin teenager. He is is only burt hurt that his village (aka Benin kingdom) is inconsiderable when compared with Yorubaland.

The bolded are not my words. Those are the words of Mr Cyril Punch who visited Benin Kingdom and Yorubaland in the 1880s/1890s.

samuk:


When did the Europeans first visited Ife The so called sophisticated cradle of Yoruba civilisation and culture. Oh I forgot, an Arab traveller penned something about it.

Lol you are obsessed with the whites see Oni ke ..He was too power to be seen by no one ..Oni is a living god

samuk:


When did the Europeans first visited Ife The so called sophisticated cradle of Yoruba civilisation and culture. Oh I forgot, an Arab traveller penned something about it.

Trying to make one small village bigger than it ever was, an impossible task.

You keep regurgitating and repeating the same trash.

TAO11:
No Benin prince became king in any part of Lagos.

The account you refer to was the Benin account according to Chief Egharevba (1953). Yes, his account became very popular and very widespread that it was thought to be universal.

However, the attachment below is of page 43 from the the Lagos account as published in Sir Alan Burns, “History of Nigeria”.

The Lagos account was published decades before Chief Egharevba’s Benin account.

The Lagos account was first published in Rev. J. B. Woods’ “Historical Notices of Lagos, West Africa”, 1878.

Then the same account was published later by Rev J. B. Losi’s “History of Lagos”, in 1914.

And then finally in 1929, the same Lagos account was published in Sir Alan Burns’ “History of Nigeria”.

This Lagos account (which is decades earlier than Egharevba’s account) makes two points clear:

(1) That the Binis settled in Lagos by peaceful infiltration — It was infiltrated by conquest as Egharevba would later claim.

(2)That Ashipa (the progenitor of the present monarchy) is a Yoruba chief of Ife royal descent from Isheri — He is not an Edo man as Egharevba would later claim.

Yes, his son Ado was born to him by a Benin woman and he arrived Lagos from Benin to succeed his father.

Benin only come to Lagos through the Portuguese known fact .. They can't pass through the Ijebu on expedition to Lagos, they were camped in Lagos island through the help of the Portuguese explorer and Merchant they were Benin ally Benin soldier were used in capturing slaves and attacks on vulnerable villages Eleko is not the owner of Lagos or ijebu water side region his power is restricted to Lagos island

Obalufon:
Benin only come to Lagos through the Portuguese known fact .. They can't pass through the Ijebu on expedition to Lagos they Benin were camped in Lagos island through the help of the Portuguese Merchant they were Benin ally Benin soldier were used in capturing slaves and attacks on vulnerable villages Eleko is not the owner of Lagos or ijebu water side region his power is restricted to Lagos island

There is no primary evidence to substantiate these claims. They’re all a trickle down and fall out of Egharevba’s initial claims.

However, the point I am correcting is not even that. The point I am correcting is as follows:

(1) No Edo prince ruled as king in any part of Lagos — Island or mainland.

(2) No Bini conquered any part of Lagos — Island or mainland.

The original accounts which claims otherwise on these two points are the latter-day claims made by Chief Egharevba in the 1950s — hence historians call it the Benin account.

On the other hand, the account which originates from Lagos itself came more than 50 years earlier than the Benin account, and it states the very two points I noted above.

I’m preparing to make a thread on this soon. I’m trying to lay my hands again on some of the materials I’d be needing for the purpose.

TAO11:
There is no primary evidence to substantiate these claims. They’re all a trickle down and fall out of Egharevba’s initial claims.

However, the point I am correcting is not even that. The point I am correcting is as follows:

(1) No Edo prince prince ruled as king in any part of Lagos — Island or mainland.

(2) No Bini conquered any part of Lagos — Island or mainland.

The original accounts which claims otherwise on these two points are the latter-day claims made by Chief Egharevba in the 1950s — hence historians call it the Benin account.

On the other hand, the account which originates from Lagos itself came more than 50 years earlier than the Benin account, and it states the very two points I noted above.

I’m preparing to make a thread on this soon. I’m trying to lay my hands again on some of the materials I’d be needing for the purpose.

i thought as much good information...

TAO11:
Fictional Ife? You mean like FICTIONAL Benin Kingdom? LMAO!


Me: The Europeans didn’t visit the deep hinterland Yoruba until the 1800s for safety concerns.

Still Me: The same Europeans visited (costal) Yorubaland in the late 1400s before visiting Benin kingdom.

Samuk: Yay! Benin is Great!

Me: Is Saamu okay? LMAO!

I understand you would have done better if you had a better argument.

Except that Ife was no where near the coast.

And except that Ife was noticed by the world at a time when Beninwas no where to be found.

Cc: Obalufon

Lol, what!? Did that cretin just call Ife "fictional Ife"? Is the monumental ill-educated buffoon aware that his Bini Oba is called "Abieyuwa N'Ovbi Odua N'uhe" (The son of the
wealthy Odua of Ife)? How exactly do you always have the time and patience to knock endless truths and facts into the brains of these ridiculously annoying, incorrigible miseducated midwits? I get tired easily.

Obalufon:
Are you high on OGOGORO "" Lagos Benin Kingdom ke !! When the Ijebu are controlling the water way of Lagos ..Benin influence in Lagos was through the Portuguese explorer that brought Benin Royal to Lagos aboard their ship because Lagos was Portuguese Anchor /quay and is small portion of Lagos Island the prince later became a king because of his royal lineage of Ife Every Benin Royal speak Yoruba... First king of Lagos Ashipa 1682-1716 ..Portuguese were in Lagos since 1472 .. over 200yrs

U are obviously a drunkard ... I guess Oba ovonramwen told u this from the grave

If Benin actually spoke Yoruba for years, then what are the circumstances that enabled Benin to change the language...

In the Old Benin Empire, Benin was occupied by the Benin majorly, then Urhobo and the itsekiri..

So there is a high chance that Father Columbine de Nantes associated with the itsekiri people and erroneously concluded that Benin as a whole spoke Yoruba language...

If it was true, that Benin spoke Yoruba language at a certain point in time, there would have been noted by some consistent European visitors about a sudden Change of language ..

So there is no viable explanation for how Benin spoke Yoruba and suddenly lost the language otherwise the owo,ekiti, ijebu and others would have lost theirs

It could also be that he heard Benin language but assumed that it was a Yoruba variant because of how it sounded...

To buttress this point, there are some people who assumed that Igbo is a variant of Japanese.. and they were corrected by some who understood both Igbo and Japanese
See link here
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Igbo-language-similar-to-japanese

Latin that was the universally used in Europe, there are accounts of how the language broke down to form different languages which are in the same language family like French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, etc...

This cannot be said abt Benin because its in a completely different language family than Yoruba ..
So Latin which was a Universal language, gave rise to other languages like the aforementioned but Yoruba which was wrongly assumed to be a universal language by Columbine, didn't give rise to Benin language..

Another point is that Columbine was not particularly fluent in either language but erroneously assumed that one language was a variant to the other

Other than the erroneous conclusion by Father Columbine de Nantes, there is no eyewitness account that said that Benin spoke Yoruba ...

sesan85:

Lol, what!? Did that cretin just call Ife "fictional Ife"? Is the monumental ill-educated buffoon aware that his Bini Oba is called "Abieyuwa N'Ovbi Odua N'uhe" (The son of the
wealthy Odua of Ife)? How exactly do you always have the time and patience to knock endless truths and facts into the brains of these ridiculously annoying, incorrigible miseducated midwits? I get tired easily.

Ask him to explain what he meant by fictional Ife and he’ll slip into a confused/rambling mode. He probably meant to type FICTIONAL Benin Kingdom.

He had to type that to safe face and soak in the mess. I know these liars pretty well. You have to learn to be patient with them.

All they want is people like you — that is, smart people who see their lies but leave them to carry on.

Obalufon:
••• Every Benin Royal speak Yoruba •••

Yes, this is quite true (at least up to the 1600s) and not only of Benin Royal, but for Benin kingdom and most region around the coast.

The people spoke the Yoruba language as a lingua-franca in addition to having their own various local dialects.

Father Comlumin of Nantes who visited Benin Kingdom in the 1600s and wrote from there, as an eyewitness observer, back home to the French authorities on the prospect of establishing a missionary base has the following to say:

“In this Kingdom [of Benin] the people may very easily be led to embrace the faith, and priests can live here with greater ease than in other parts of Guinea because of the healthy climate ... Their language is simple it is called Licomin language [Yoruba languge] and is universally used in these parts, just like Latin in Europe.”

@Etinosa1234, I noticed you updated your mention to @Obalufon with some very hilarious special pleading.

Did you really have to stretch yourself to the laughable extreme that the Father Columbin of Nantes must have found it difficult to ask who is Bini and who is not?

You also had to lie to yourself that the Father (rather than asking the people what the universal language was) simply took it upon himself to guess it out. Lol.

These are very convenient jokes actually. I do hope that they served their purpose of helping you cope and deal with the unnecessary embarrassment you felt.

Moreover, the very Licomin lingua-franca spoken throughout the coast (including in Benin kingdom as reported by the Father) is the same Alkomijis which Dapper also wrote about.

Dapper wrote that the Yoruba language was also spoken as the lingua-franca in the Aja kingdom of Allada also on the coast. Dapper writes in relation to this same phenomenon in 1668 as follows:

“Their own mother tongue is by them little regarded; therefore they seldom speak it; but they are obliged to speak mostly Alkomijis [Yoruba] which in their own country is regarded as a noble language.”

In sum then, contrary to your assumption; this is not a phenomenon restricted to Benin kingdom alone, nor are these reports claiming that the Yoruba language is the only language which these people knew.

No! This is a phenomenon observed by the Europeans throughout much of the West African coast, around the 1600s.

Also, the peoples’ own native languages (or dialects) were never absent from them at any time even as they all speak the mutually intelligible lingua-franca.

Moreover, the Spanish Jesuit, Alonso de Sandoval, also in the 1600s, alluded to the fact that Lucumies were employed right in the palace administration of Benin.

In conclusion, this phenomenon of the Yoruba language been widely used throughout much of the coast was not an isolated phenomenon; and it is nothing to worry or feel inferior about.

Cheers!

sesan85:


Lol, what!? Did that cretin just call Ife "fictional Ife"? Is the monumental ill-educated buffoon aware that his Bini Oba is called "Abieyuwa N'Ovbi Odua N'uhe" (The son of the
wealthy Odua of Ife)? How exactly do you always have the time and patience to knock endless truths and facts into the brains of these ridiculously annoying, incorrigible miseducated midwits? I get tired easily.

Which psychiatric hospital did this one escaped from?

Everyone can now see that though the Yoruba style themselves as educated but most of them, especially the ones here on Nairaland lacks reasoning abilities.

Are you aware that the Europeans were consistently in Benin for 400 years with countless reports on every aspect of Benin culture, tradition, trades and war exploits without being told anything about Oduduwa, Ife and Oranmiyan.

If Ife was as great as you guys are parroting, don't you think the Europeans who were in Benin for 400 years would have be inquisitive enough to visit this wealthy, sophisticated cradle of Yoruba civilisation, Ife?

Benin to Ife is less than 200 miles, yet no visit from the Europeans. The European even visited Lagos which was then under Benin kingdom and much further away from Benin compared to Ife which was closer.

The Europeans served as mercenaries in the Benin/Ida war of the 1500s, yet they heard nothing about Ife.

Ife only appeared in Benin history in the 1800s, why would Benin forget to inform the European about Benin/Ife relationship for 400 years? Because it never existed, it was fabricated in the 1800s. Please prove me wrong.

Unfortunately for the Yoruba, most people that read these comments can think and people are now moving away from unsubstantiated oral history and now seeking fact and evidence based history.

Benin/Ife relationship have no historical, provable, independent eyewitness evidence earlier than 1800s to support it.

Benin/Ife relationship is "me say, you say" history, the Benin says Oduduwa was a Benin prince, Yoruba say Oduduwa is from the Sky, Mecca and now Ife. This is the kind of myth and unsubstantiated oral history people are moving away from.

Benin and Yoruba are not in agreement on the origin of Oduduwa. So stop fooling yourselves pretending there is an agreeable historical account of Oduduwa

Repeat a lie for as long as you want, it will never become true. Your insults will also not help your lies become truth.

The Yoruba don't have problems believing each others lies.

My comments and submissions are for right thinking and logical reasoning other Nigerians and diaspora you guys are trying to mislead.

Yoruba hinterland was first visited in 1824 by the European.. Yoruba came of age after the end of Benin empire/kingdom.

samuk:
[s]Which psychiatric hospital did this one escaped from?

Everyone can now see that though the Yoruba style themselves as educated but most of them, especially the ones here on Nairaland lacks reasoning abilities.

Are you aware that the Europeans were consistently in Benin for 400 years with countless reports on every aspect of Benin culture, tradition, trades and war exploits without being told anything about Oduduwa, Ife and Oranmiyan.

If Ife was as great as you guys are parroting, don't you think the Europeans who were in Benin for 400 years would have be inquisitive enough to visit this wealthy, sophisticated cradle of Yoruba civilisation Ife?

Benin to Ife is less than 200 miles, yet no visit from the Europeans. The European even visited Lagos which was then under Benin kingdom and much further away from Benin compared to Ife which was closer.

The Europeans served as mercenaries in the Benin/Ida war of the 1500s, yet they heard nothing about Ife.

Ife only appeared in Benin history in the 1800s, why would Benin forget to inform the European about Benin/Ife relationship for 400 years? Because it never existed, it was fabricated in the 1800s. Please provide me wrong.

Unfortunately for the Yoruba, most people that read these comments can think and people are now moving away from unsubstantiated oral history and now seeking fact and evidence based history.

Benin/Ife relationship have no historical, provable, independent eyewitness evidence earlier than 1800s to support it.

Benin/Ife relationship is "me say, you say" history, the Benin says Oduduwa was a Benin prince, Yoruba say Oduduwa is from the Sky, Mecca and now Ife. This is the kind of myth and unsubstantiated oral history people are moving away from.

Repeat a lie for as long as you want, it will never become true. Your insults will also not help your lies become truth.

The Yoruba don't have problems believe each others lies.

My comments and submissions are for right thinking and logical reasoning other Nigerians and diaspora you guys are trying to mislead.

Yoruba hinterland was first visited in 1824 by the European.. Yoruba came of age after the end of Benin empire/kingdom.[/s]

@sesan85, ALL his lies (I mean every single thing he has mentioned you on here) have already been debunked on this same thread from PAGE 5 to PAGE 9. LMAO!

Let’s just hope that he has enough courage to engage his nemesis — that is, the refutation of his endless and repeated blatant LIES.

Don’t bother helping him with the resurrection he desperately craves.

TAO11:
@sesan85, ALL his lies (I mean every single thing he has mentioned you on here) have already been debunked on this same thread from PAGE 5 to PAGE 9. LMAO!

Let’s just hope that he has enough courage to engage his nemesis — that is, the refutation of his endless and repeated blatant LIES.

Don’t bother helping him with the resurrection he desperately craves.

My submissions are for reasonable unbiased Nigerians and diaspora to read and make their deductions.

samuk:
[s]My submissions are for reasonable unbiased Nigerians and diaspora to read and make their deductions[/s].

And my refutation of your blatant and cunning lies are for the purpose of exposing you to the whole wide world for what you are — an insecure FRAUD.

samuk:


Which psychiatric hospital did this one escaped from?

Everyone can now see that though the Yoruba style themselves as educated but most of them, especially the ones here on Nairaland lacks reasoning abilities.

Are you aware that the Europeans were consistently in Benin for 400 years with countless reports on every aspect of Benin culture, tradition, trades and war exploits without being told anything about Oduduwa, Ife and Oranmiyan.

If Ife was as great as you guys are parroting, don't you think the Europeans who were in Benin for 400 years would have be inquisitive enough to visit this wealthy, sophisticated cradle of Yoruba civilisation, Ife?

Benin to Ife is less than 200 miles, yet no visit from the Europeans. The European even visited Lagos which was then under Benin kingdom and much further away from Benin compared to Ife which was closer.

The Europeans served as mercenaries in the Benin/Ida war of the 1500s, yet they heard nothing about Ife.

Ife only appeared in Benin history in the 1800s, why would Benin forget to inform the European about Benin/Ife relationship for 400 years? Because it never existed, it was fabricated in the 1800s. Please prove me wrong.

Unfortunately for the Yoruba, most people that read these comments can think and people are now moving away from unsubstantiated oral history and now seeking fact and evidence based history.

Benin/Ife relationship have no historical, provable, independent eyewitness evidence earlier than 1800s to support it.

Benin/Ife relationship is "me say, you say" history, the Benin says Oduduwa was a Benin prince, Yoruba say Oduduwa is from the Sky, Mecca and now Ife. This is the kind of myth and unsubstantiated oral history people are moving away from.

Benin and Yoruba are not in agreement on the origin of Oduduwa. So stop fooling yourselves pretending there is an agreeable historical account of Oduduwa

Repeat a lie for as long as you want, it will never become true. Your insults will also not help your lies become truth.

The Yoruba don't have problems believing each others lies.

My comments and submissions are for right thinking and logical reasoning other Nigerians and diaspora you guys are trying to mislead.

Yoruba hinterland was first visited in 1824 by the European.. Yoruba came of age after the end of Benin empire/kingdom.

Delusion of grandeur....You need mental evaluation

Obalufon:
Delusion of grandeur....You need mental evaluation

I swear!

Summary For Quick Referencing

(1) “Yoruba” Founded In 1808 ??
DEBUNKED:
https://www.nairaland.com/6234931/why-ikwerres-not-igbo-logic/25#96567759

(2) No Relationship Between Ife and Benin Prior To The 1800s ??
DEBUNKED:
https://www.nairaland.com/6234931/why-ikwerres-not-igbo-logic/9#96323798
OR
https://www.nairaland.com/6087424/benin-ife-myth-shouldnt-circulated#93803726

(3) Binis Militarily Invaded, Conquered, Settled in Lagos; and then Installed an Edo Prince as The First King ??
DEBUNKED:
https://www.nairaland.com/6286709/ijebu-vs-jebusite/1#96593783

(4) Binis Own The Word “Oba” ??
DEBUNKED:
https://www.nairaland.com/6234931/why-ikwerres-not-igbo-logic/15#96513655

(5) Benin Obtained TRIBUTES from OYo ??
DEBUNKED:
https://www.nairaland.com/6291440/benin-remain-center-west-africa/1#96792413

(6) Benin Ruled Certain Eastern-Yoruba Kingdoms ??
DEBUNKED:
https://www.nairaland.com/6234931/why-ikwerres-not-igbo-logic/15#96519494

Cheers!

samuk:
•••Are you aware that the Europeans were consistently in Benin for 400 years with countless reports on every aspect of Benin culture, tradition, trades and war exploits without being told anything about Oduduwa, Ife and Oranmiyan.

Except that the earliest European visitors to Benin actually documented nothing about the following names as well: EwekaI, Ewuare I, Ezoti, Olua, Ozolua, Esigie, Ewedo, Oguola, and several more.

You have been debunked on this severally. You’re only testing the waters against those who may have missed your disgrace while it was ongoing live.

If Ife was as great as you guys are parroting, don't you think the Europeans who were in Benin for 400 years would have be inquisitive enough to visit this wealthy, sophisticated cradle of Yoruba civilisation, Ife?

Benin to Ife is less than 200 miles, yet no visit from the Europeans.

Ife, just as the other central Yorubaland area, is deeper in the interior of the West African forest than Benin which is closer to the coast.

As such, it is easier to be back at the coast from Benin under a day’s journey than from the interior which is an haven of mosquitoes against which the Europeans have low immunity.

Moreover, you may also find this additional information interesting. It is specifically on Ife, and it was collected by Ibn Battuta a 100 years before EUrOpEaN arrival. It was popularized in Europe from the 1300s.
www.nairaland.com/attachments/12912433_6a1b73d4b800414d88c53f016bd6c341_jpeg_jpeg97a6e137566f4d251f5cf2697716dde5 .

You have already been debunked on all these severally. Stop hoping to find a new victim to prey on.

The European even visited Lagos which was then under Benin kingdom and much further away from Benin compared to Ife which was closer.

Benin had no connection with Lagos at the time of the Europeans’ first visit to Lagos before they then visited Benin.

Moreover, Lagos was never at any time in its history under Benin as you’ve implied here as a conqueror-subject relationship.

Rather, the only noticeable relationship between Lagos and Benin was that which continued from Ashipa’s relationship with the then Oba of Benin — a patron-protege pact.

See the embedded image below for the details of this Lagos account as extracted from page 43 of Sir Alan Burns’ “History of Nigeria” published in 1929 — decades before Egharevba made his strange claims of conquest in his 1953 edition.
www.nairaland.com/attachments/12912408_584e15528bdf45c8aef7a4f70fd52548_jpeg_jpeg40c6fb0373e31cbaad272efbb8fbca0a

The Europeans served as mercenaries in the Benin/Ida war of the 1500s, yet they heard nothing about Ife.

You mean we must assume that the absence of the names of Eweka I, Ewuare I, Ezoti, Oguola, Ozolua, Olua, et al. from the earliest records of the Europeans is proof that the EUrOpEaN visitors heard nothing about these Benin heroes and founding fathers ?? LMAO!

Moreover, I am not assuming that your claim about Benin/Ida and EUrOpEaN so-called mercenaries is a correct information though.

Ife only appeared in Benin history in the 1800s, why would Benin forget to inform the European about Benin/Ife relationship for 400 years? Because it never existed, it was fabricated in the 1800s. Please prove me wrong

Well, if the meaning of “history” is merely “literature“, then you may be correct to say that Ife, Ewuare I, Eweka I, Ozolua, Esigie, et al. weren’t named in Benin history until in the 1800s.

But if “history” really means what it means — that is, if it really comprises of all historical evidence from archaeology, literature, maps, vast received accounts; then Ife has always been the origin of the Benin monarchy as I have demonstrated with archaeological evidence multiple times. See one of the links above.

Unfortunately for the Yoruba, most people that read these comments can think and people are now moving away from unsubstantiated oral history and now seeking fact and evidence based history.

Ironically, this is precisely why everyone who is not a Bini like you thinks you are a blatant liar.

Name me one non-Benin from your so-called most-people who thinks your lies are actually truths. None! That’s my handiwork. I exposed you.

Benin/Ife relationship have no historical, provable, independent eyewitness evidence earlier than 1800s to support it.

Just as Ewuare I, Eweka I, Ozolua, Esigie, et al. all have no eyewitness proof despite the fact that the Europeans reached Benin at a time when most of these men are supposed to be ruling Benin. LMAO!

But, like I said, if “history” really means what it means — that is, if it really comprises of all historical evidence from archaeology, literature, maps, vast received accounts; then Ife has always been the origin of the Benin monarchy as I have demonstrated with archaeological evidence multiple times. See one of the links above.

Benin/Ife relationship is "me say, you say" history

You mean just as many Benin writers have grappled and contradicted themselves on the origin of the Benin people —contradicting one another from Egypt, to Sudan, to Sky, to Europe, to Ife, etc. ?? Is this what you have in mind here?

Moreover, unlike in the case of the Yorubas; there is only one account of Oduduwa’s origin which emanates originally from the Yorubas themselves.

And that is the indigenous account which states that Oduduwa is a Yoruba man from Ife. There are no earlier contrary historical accounts to this which emanates from the Yorubas themselves.

the Benin says Oduduwa was a Benin prince

And no one (including historians) ever took the Binis seriously on this fraudulent claim.

Historians note that this Benin claim is a very recent one. The historians added that the received traditions from Benin prior to this new false claim states in categorical terms that Oduduwa a Yoruba king of Ife is the grandfather of the Benin monarchy.

Historians thus conclude that the recent twisted false claim which the Binis came up with in the 1970s is nothing but an interesting nonsense borne out of inferiority complex.

Yoruba say Oduduwa is from the Sky

You mean just as the Binis say their first Ogiso sky-dived from the heaven into Benin city round about??

Or just as as Classical Europe said Alexander the Great has two horns and he is the son of Zeus-Ammon??

In other words, these are mythological narratives drummed up to glamorize and deify a heroic figure.

Mecca

No Yoruba ever originated a Meccan (or Middle Eastern) account. I have long debunked you to silence on this.

Your style is to run-off from one beating only to repeat the same lie elsewhere in the hope finding a new victim who missed out on your disgrace the first time.

and now Ife.

This is the only account which originates ab-initio from the Ife and Yorubas themselves.

Name me one earlier account of Yoruba origination which contradicts it.

This is the kind of myth and unsubstantiated oral history people are moving away from.

The only myth here that people are now avoiding like a plague is samuk and his fatuous lies.

And I will continue debunking you up to the point when you will type a comment and every single non-Benin Nairalnder will simply hiss as their reply.

Benin and Yoruba are not in agreement on the origin of Oduduwa.

Except that they have always been in agreement.

And except that what the Benin palace holds as the “official” account is not what you read on blogs and hear them put to the non-academic public.

So stop fooling yourselves pretending there is an agreeable historical account of Oduduwa

Except that there is today among historians of African and Yoruba history.

Repeat a lie for as long as you want, it will never become true. Your insults will also not help your lies become truth.

This is the very pep-talk you deserve every morning and night.

Do yourself the good of reading this to yourself day and night in order that your delusions may be curtailed if not completely obliterated.

The Yoruba don't have problems believing each others lies.

Substitute the word “Binis” for “Yoruba” here, then read this to yourself day and night everyday and notice the positive impact in your life in a week’s time.

My comments and submissions are for right thinking and logical reasoning other Nigerians and diaspora you guys are trying to mislead.

Just as my refutation of your lies are to enable the whole wide world continue to see you for who they’ve been seeing you as — an insecure unrepentant fraud ??

Yoruba hinterland was first visited in 1824 by the European.. Yoruba came of age after the end of Benin empire/kingdom.

The Europeans (your gods) may have visited different parts of the vast Yorubaland at different periods of history for safety reasons.

What is heartbreaking to you, which is very key, is that your gods (the Europeans) first visited Yorubaland before they were literally begged by the Benin king to visit their land too.

Cc: Obalufon, Ideadoctor, sesan85, babtoundey, Balogunodua

can't help laughing, poor Edo boys,been lashed back to back,by great Yoruba scholars,Obalufon I saw your work,balogunodua I saw your work,Tao11 I saw your wonderful work,@sesan85 I saw your work,eyin omo oduduwa rere,ekare,eku opolobo pipe,Eku laakaye,iye yin oni dibaje,efi iya je won dada,iya ti n je awon omo alainiran,kudos

TAO11:
And my refutation of your blatant and cunning lies are for the purpose of exposing you to the whole wide world for what you are — an insecure FRAUD.

My fellow Nairalanders:

1. How plausible is Benin/Ife relationship if the Europeans that consistently visited and were resident in Benin City for 400 years weren't told about it.

2. How plausible is the sophistication of Ife if the Europeans that were in Benin City for 400 years didn't border or deemed it fit to go and experience and explore Ife.

3. How plausible is the greatness of Oyo if it was only visited in 1824 by Europeans explorers despite the fact that they were practically resident in Benin City since the 1400s.

4. How plausible are the historical accounts of Oduduwa if no one can agree on whether he was from Mecca, Egypt, Benin, Sky or Ife.

5. How great were the Yoruba kingdoms? Where are their historical monuments as obtained in Benin.

6. Where is bight of Ife?

7. Where is republic of Ife?

8. When did Ife sent an ambassador to Europe?

9. How many non Yoruba kingdom did Ife defeat in wars?

10. How, How, How plausible are Yoruba lies

Please you be the Judge.

samuk:
My fellow Nairalanders: 1. How plausible is Benin/Ife relationship if the Europeans that consistently visited and were resident in Benin City for 400 years weren't told about it.

How plausible is it that Benin had kings by the names: Ewuare I, Ezoti, Olua, Ozolua, Esigie, or Orhogbua among others during the period when Europeans reached Benin (and documented about Benin); and yet there is not one single mention of any of these names (or anything like it) in any of their writings ??

How plausible is it ?? LMAO!

2. How plausible is the sophistication of Ife if the Europeans that were in Benin City for for 400 years didn't border or deemed it fit to go and experience and explore Ife.

How plausible is the sophistication of Benin that the Europeans visited the coast of West Africa and chose to stay with the Yorubas until they were literally begged by the Benin king that they should please visit him ??

How plausible is Saamu’s impression of truly being an undergraduate if he lacks any clue of knowing that the Europeans would dare not penetrate too deep into the hinterland of the West Africa forest at such an early time for safety/health reasons ??

How plausible is Saamu’s impression of truly being an undergraduate if he fails to realize that Ibn Battuta’s report about Ife in the 1300s (which was popular in Europe before the Europeans visited Africa for the first time) would have also formed part of the Europeans’ guide which informs how deep into the hinterland they want to go??
www.nairaland.com/attachments/12912433_6a1b73d4b800414d88c53f016bd6c341_jpeg_jpeg97a6e137566f4d251f5cf2697716dde5

3. How plausible is the greatness of Oyo if it was only visited in 1824 by Europeans explorers despite the fact that they were practically resident in Benin City since the 1400s.

How plausible is Saamu’s impression of truly being an undergraduate if he lacks any clue of knowing that the Europeans would dare not penetrate too deep into the hinterland of the West Africa forest at such an early time, for safety and health reasons — primarily for the fear of mosquitos concentration against which the Europeans had low immunity ??

4. How plausible are the historical accounts of Oduduwa if no one can agree on whether he was from Mecca, Egypt, Benin, Sky or Ife.

How plausible is it that the Binis have an origin if none of them can agree on their origin??

Were they from Sky, God’s last son, Egypt, Ife, Sudan, Sahara, Nupe or Europe ??

No exaggerations here. These are all accounts that emanate from the Binis themselves.

On the other hand, of all the accounts of Oduduwa’s origin; only one emanate ab-initio from the Yorubas themselves — and that is the indigenous Ife account which claims that Oduduwa is a Yoruba man from Ife.

Specifically from one of the hill settlements which Eluyemi’s 1990 archaeological work suggest is the Oke-Ora hill. Obayemi (1976) had note the same.

5. How great were the Yoruba kingdoms? Where are their historical monuments as obtained in Benin

6. Where is bight of Ife?

7. Where is republic of Ife?

8. When did Ife sent an ambassador to Europe?

9. How many non Yoruba kingdom did Ife defeat in wars.

Bight of Ife ?? Is Saamu this dumb?? How is Ife even close to the Atlantic coast that a stretch of the water may have been named after it??

Moreover, the naming of the bight by the Europeans after Benin was due to their trade acquaintance with Benin.

Britain had no bight named after it, in case your standard of greatness lies in “bight”. LMOA!

Moreover, Guinea’s name was adopted by the same European fir the forest stretch of West Africa. It is simply about their acquaintance with Guinea.

Guinea like Benin kingdom was a nobody when compared to the Yoruba kingdoms as Mr Cyril Punch has rightly noted.

Benin Republic has nothing to do with Benin Kingdom. They simply named their country after the name of the waterbody — and they claimed to have done so for its “neutrality”. You have to stop deceiving your gullible brothers.

Benin sent ambassadors to Europe to learn about the Christian faith among other things, so that your Oba can be baptized and subject early enough to the white Pope. Yorubas aren’t that gullible.

The relationship of Benin with Europe seems to have been an early one — Italy comes to mind.

Regarding your last question about the non-Yoruba kingdom conquered by Ife; your kingdom is a primary example and the conquest continues till date — but I guess you need more examples.

A number of early maps of West Africa (from the early 1500s) which are drwan to scale shows the annotation the “Oghene’s Kingdom” boldly labeled over a vast exapnase of the Nigeria region and to the west of Benin kingdom.

This is a clear indication of the vast non-Yoruba domain under the dominion of the most powerful monarch of the region — the “Owoni” of Ife himself (borrowing S. Johnson’s relatively older pronunciation).

————————
Real achievements however are as follows:

Ife was noticed by the Arabs and the EUrOpEaN world at a time when Benin was no where to be found — in the 1300s.

There are an indigenous people in Togo who till date prefer to be alternatively called as “Ife” people. Yes, they chose to be named after Ile-Ife.

Show me a counterpart of the Oranmiyan granite obelisk in Benin kingdom or anywhere else in black Africa — except Sudan and Ethiopia.

Show me any Benin ‘bronze’ sculpture whom any art historian any where in the world thinks may stand comparison with the best produced in Ancient Egypt, Classical Greece & Rome, or Renaissance Europe.

There is none. You will only find such in Ife.

You be your own judge for once since Nairalanders have consistently adjudged you to be a blatant and fatuous liar.

TAO11:
How plausible is it that Benin had kings by the names: Ewuare I, Ezoti, Olua, Ozolua, Esigie, or Orhogbua among others during the period when Europeans reached Benin and documented about Benin.

Yet, there is not one single mention of any of these names (or anything like it) in any of their writings ??

How plausible is it ??

Yet, we find other historical evidence

2. How plausible is the sophistication of Ife if the Europeans that were in Benin City for for 400 years didn't border or deemed it fit to go and experience and explore Ife.

3. How plausible is the greatness of Oyo if it was only visited in 1824 by Europeans explorers despite the fact that they were practically resident in Benin City since the 1400s.

4. How plausible are the historical accounts of Oduduwa if no one can agree on whether he was from Mecca, Egypt, Benin, Sky or Ife.

5. How great were the Yoruba kingdoms? Where are their historical monuments as obtained in Benin.

6. Where is bight of Ife?

7. Where is republic of Ife?

8. When did Ife sent an ambassador to Europe?

9. How many non Yoruba kingdom did Ife defeat in wars.

Please you be the Judge.

Since I have been exposing all your lies, I noticed you no longer Cc your Igbo fans, you don't want them to read me exposing you and your lies

samuk:



Since I have been exposing all your lies, I noticed you no longer Cc your Igbo fans, you don't want them to read me exposing you and your lies

After she trashed you again you couldn't answer her questions only to claim to exposed an unseen lie...

Goal changing is always your only option..

samuk:
Since I have been exposing all your lies, I noticed you no longer Cc your Igbo fans, you don't want them to read me exposing you and your lies

They have already admitted to being convinced that you’re a fatuous lair and a mythomaniac.

They’ve also stated clearly that they are now convinced that your Oba is a Yorubaman.

What more do I want from them?

Afam4eva, Juliusmalema, Obalatule, Ofunwa111 — Is there any lie here??

samuk:

My fellow Nairalanders: 1. How plausible is Benin/Ife relationship if the Europeans that consistently visited and were resident in Benin City for 400 years weren't told about it.

How plausible is it that Benin had kings by the names: Ewuare I, Ezoti, Olua, Ozolua, Esigie, or Orhogbua among others during the period when Europeans reached Benin (and documented about Benin); and yet there is not one single mention of any of these names (or anything like it) in any of their writings ??

How plausible is it ?? LMAO!

2. How plausible is the sophistication of Ife if the Europeans that were in Benin City for for 400 years didn't border or deemed it fit to go and experience and explore Ife.

How plausible is the sophistication of Benin that the Europeans visited the coast of West Africa and chose to stay with the Yorubas until they were literally begged by the Benin king that they should please visit him ??

How plausible is Saamu’s impression of truly being an undergraduate if he lacks any clue of knowing that the Europeans would dare not penetrate too deep into the hinterland of the West Africa forest at such an early time for safety/health reasons ??

How plausible is Saamu’s impression of truly being an undergraduate if he fails to realize that Ibn Battuta’s report about Ife in the 1300s (which was popular in Europe before the Europeans visited Africa for the first time) would have also formed part of the Europeans’ guide which informs how deep into the hinterland they want to go??
www.nairaland.com/attachments/12912433_6a1b73d4b800414d88c53f016bd6c341_jpeg_jpeg97a6e137566f4d251f5cf2697716dde5

3. How plausible is the greatness of Oyo if it was only visited in 1824 by Europeans explorers despite the fact that they were practically resident in Benin City since the 1400s.

How plausible is Saamu’s impression of truly being an undergraduate if he lacks any clue of knowing that the Europeans would dare not penetrate too deep into the hinterland of the West Africa forest at such an early time, for safety and health reasons — primarily for the fear of mosquitos concentration against which the Europeans had low immunity ??

4. How plausible are the historical accounts of Oduduwa if no one can agree on whether he was from Mecca, Egypt, Benin, Sky or Ife.

How plausible is it that the Binis have an origin if none of them can agree on their origin??

Were they from Sky, God’s last son, Egypt, Ife, Sudan, Sahara, Nupe or Europe ??

No exaggerations here. These are all accounts that emanate from the Binis themselves.

On the other hand, of all the accounts of Oduduwa’s origin; only one emanate ab-initio from the Yorubas themselves — and that is the indigenous Ife account which claims that Oduduwa is a Yoruba man from Ife.

Specifically from one of the hill settlements which Eluyemi’s 1990 archaeological work suggest is the Oke-Ora hill. Obayemi (1976) had note the same.

5. How great were the Yoruba kingdoms? Where are their historical monuments as obtained in Benin

6. Where is bight of Ife?

7. Where is republic of Ife?

8. When did Ife sent an ambassador to Europe?

9. How many non Yoruba kingdom did Ife defeat in wars.

Bight of Ife ?? Is Saamu this dumb?? How is Ife even close to the Atlantic coast that a stretch of the water may have been named after it??

Moreover, the naming of the bight by the Europeans after Benin was due to their trade acquaintance with Benin.

Britain had no bight named after it, in case your standard of greatness lies in “bight”. LMOA!

Moreover, Guinea’s name was adopted by the same European fir the forest stretch of West Africa. It is simply about their acquaintance with Guinea.

Guinea like Benin kingdom was a nobody when compared to the Yoruba kingdoms as Mr Cyril Punch has rightly noted.

Benin Republic has nothing to do with Benin Kingdom. They simply named their country after the name of the waterbody — and they claimed to have done so for its “neutrality”. You have to stop deceiving your gullible brothers.

Benin sent ambassadors to Europe to learn about the Christian faith among other things, so that your Oba can be baptized and subject early enough to the white Pope. Yorubas aren’t that gullible.

The relationship of Benin with Europe seems to have been an early one — Italy comes to mind.

————————
Real achievements however are as follows:

Ife was noticed by the Arabs and the EUrOpEaN world at a time when Benin was no where to be found — in the 1300s.

There are an indigenous people in Togo who till date prefer to be alternatively called as “Ife” people. Yes, they chose to be named after Ile-Ife.

Show me a counterpart of the Oranmiyan granite obelisk in Benin kingdom or anywhere else in black Africa — except Sudan and Ethiopia.

Show me any Benin ‘bronze’ sculpture whom any art historian any where in the world thinks may stand comparison with the best produced in Ancient Egypt, Classical Greece & Rome, or Renaissance Europe.

There is none. You will only find such in Ife.

You be your own judge for once since Nairalanders have consistently adjudged you to be a blatant and fatuous liar.

Cc: Balogunodua

TAO11:
How plausible is it that Benin had kings by the names: Ewuare I, Ezoti, Olua, Ozolua, Esigie, or Orhogbua among others during the period when Europeans reached Benin (and documented about Benin); and yet there is not one single mention of any of these names (or anything like it) in any of their writings ??

How plausible is it ?? LMAO!

How plausible is the sophistication of Benin that the Europeans visited the coast of West Africa and chose to stay with the Yorubas until they were literally begged by the Benin king that they should please visit him ??

How plausible is Saamu’s impression of truly being an undergraduate if he lacks any clue of knowing that the Europeans would dare not penetrate too deep into the hinterland of the West Africa forest at such an early time for safety/health reasons ??

How plausible is Saamu’s impression of truly being an undergraduate if he fails to realize that Ibn Battuta’s report about Ife in the 1300s (which was popular in Europe before the Europeans visited Africa for the first time) would have also formed part of the Europeans’ guide which informs how deep into the hinterland they want to go??
www.nairaland.com/attachments/12912433_6a1b73d4b800414d88c53f016bd6c341_jpeg_jpeg97a6e137566f4d251f5cf2697716dde5

How plausible is Saamu’s impression of truly being an undergraduate if he lacks any clue of knowing that the Europeans would dare not penetrate too deep into the hinterland of the West Africa forest at such an early time, for safety and health reasons — primarily for the fear of mosquitos concentration against which the Europeans had low immunity ??

How plausible is it that the Binis have an origin if none of them can agree on their origin??

Were they from Sky, God’s last son, Egypt, Ife, Sudan, Sahara, Nupe or Europe ??

No exaggerations here. These are all accounts that emanate from the Binis themselves.

On the other hand, of all the accounts of Oduduwa’s origin; only one emanate ab-initio from the Yorubas themselves — and that is the indigenous Ife account which claims that Oduduwa is a Yoruba man from Ife.

Specifically from one of the hill settlements which Eluyemi’s 1990 archaeological work suggest is the Oke-Ora hill. Obayemi (1976) had note the same.

Bight of Ife ?? Is Saamu this dumb?? How is Ife even close to the Atlantic coast that a stretch of the water may have been named after it??

Moreover, the naming of the bight by the Europeans after Benin was due to their trade acquaintance with Benin.

Britain had no bight named after it, in case your standard of greatness lies in “bight”. LMOA!

Moreover, Guinea’s name was adopted by the same European fir the forest stretch of West Africa. It is simply about their acquaintance with Guinea.

Guinea like Benin kingdom was a nobody when compared to the Yoruba kingdoms as Mr Cyril Punch has rightly noted.

Benin Republic has nothing to do with Benin Kingdom. They simply named their country after the name of the waterbody — and they claimed to have done so for its “neutrality”. You have to stop deceiving your gullible brothers.

Benin sent ambassadors to Europe to learn about the Christian faith among other things, so that your Oba can be baptized and subject early enough to the white Pope. Yorubas aren’t that gullible.

The relationship of Benin with Europe seems to have been an early one — Italy comes to mind.

————————
Real achievements however are as follows:

Ife was noticed by the Arabs and the EUrOpEaN world at a time when Benin was no where to be found — in the 1300s.

There are an indigenous people in Togo who till date prefer to be alternatively called as “Ife” people. Yes, they chose to be named after Ile-Ife.

Show me a counterpart of the Oranmiyan granite obelisk in Benin kingdom or anywhere else in black Africa — except Sudan and Ethiopia.

Show me any Benin ‘bronze’ sculpture whom any art historian any where in the world thinks may stand comparison with the best produced in Ancient Egypt, Classical Greece & Rome, or Renaissance Europe.

There is none. You will only find such in Ife.

You be your own judge for once since Nairalanders have consistently adjudged you to be a blatant and fatuous liar.

Cc: Balogunodua

Samuk always amuse me with his way of thinking...he should be awarded PhD in lying studies..

I always knew and I have always stated that the oni of ife is not a king.
the yoruba just invent themselves a tradition and a passed.
They copy real indigenoous cultures and turn arround to claim it is those cultures who copied yoruba.

Birth of yoruba: 1808
Adoption of the term "Oba" in yoruba chiefs nomenclature: 1930's

And the average yoruba would just go online and defend his dogma like a fanatic boko haram memeber defending the flatness of the earth.

valirex:
Oni was the chief priest of Ifa from the beginning before Awolowo changed Ooni priesthood into kingship. The ultimate king of Yoruba is Alaffi of Oyo.
The same position of Ooni was the position of Ogiefa of Benin, Ogiefa was the diviners and priest of Efa as Onni is priest of Ifa. Benin call it Efa, Urhobo call it Efa, Igbo call it Afa too, Yoruba call it Ifa.
#Photospeak.

TAO11 Oya come and start wailing

Etrusen
samuk
AreaFada2
gregyboy
Etinosa1234

Notice the ooni of ife is wearing just one bead around his kneck, like any regular low ranking chief of Benin empire. To me this proves the ooni was a low ranking chief in Benin empire. therefor ife was under the Oba of Benin.

Balogunodua:
Samuk always amuse me with his way of thinking...he should be awarded PhD in lying studies..

LMAO! A faculty of lying studies must be established in UNIBEN and Samuk made its Dean.