₦airaland Forum

pimplucious:
But if I may ask, if what u say is true, why aren't most pastors aware of this? Ie law and grace as stated above?

There is no way you can expect that to happen. There must be good and bad pastors. For sure!

Bad ones wouldn't like to loose the tithe money, they would like to gain it all. No matter how truthful grace teaching is.

Good ones would like to forget about financial drop and focus on the MESSAGE- the gospel of the free grace of God.

Deicide:
i Don't believe "God" killed the child because to me he doesn't exist however u are the one that actually believe "God" killed the Child according to ur silly belief! like i said it's a way of triggering ur dumb brain to work!

How sure are you that he doesn't exist? How many percent? The highest percentage I have ever heard of is 99%(darwkins), so what's yours?

You made an assertion!
Miscarriage=God killed the child.

You were simply trying to use this is a defiant manner, which couldn't work. Only to twist thoughts again. Nice try!

Deicide:
Where the F**k did i say life doesn't matter to me? does that mean i should be afraid of death? pls if u don't know how to have a civil convo don't quote me again

See this kid!

You were asked this question by @trapQ:
What is bad in anyone killing you right now?

And you screamed "NOTHING!!".

What does that show?
It shows that you see NOTHING BAD in you getting killed! When you see nothing bad in taking your life away, does it show your life matter to you? Bro just wake up!

What does being afraid of death has to do with seeing nothing bad in taking away you life? You reason so dull, yet you scream "dumb"!

Bro, you are really the SUPER-DUMB guy!

SirWere:
A myraid of reasons. A plethora of factors.

He might personally dislike bestiality. He might feel that risk of infection is high. He might fear the social fallout his son would bear. He might feel it goes against his moral code (yes, atheists have moral codes), he might feel his son deserves better.

Hell, he might want grandkids sef



There are so many factors; in play there.


And I fail to see how it correlates to objective morality.

I couldn't believe my eyes! Bro, you are a disgrace to atheism, darwkins will not be proud of you!

Why would he personally dislike bestiality, when he sees nothing wrong with her daughter having ABORTION?
abortion - /əˈbɔːʃ(ə)n/
noun
1. the DELIBRATE termination of a human pregnancy, most often performed during the first 28 weeks.

bestiality - /bɛstɪˈalɪti/
noun
1. sexual intercourse between a person and an
ANIMAL.


When he sees her daughter abort, he would protect her by saying " that's her right!!", why wouldn't he do this in the case of bestiality because his son still has the RIGHT to satisfy his sexual pleasures? That's his right, as well!

He might feel the risk of infection is high?? Why wouldn't he feel that the risk of premature death would be high when his daughter abort? There are both high risk in both sides, why accept the risk behind abortion and reject that of bestiality?

But remember, it's the CHILD'S HUMAN RIGHT!!! To satisfy his sexual pleasure!! You have your sexual pleasures, he has his. You satisfy yours, why the hell wouldn't you leave him to satisfy his? When you satisfy yours through having sex with prostitutes, why don't you consider the risk of getting HIV/AIDS?


Oh, he might have the fear for social fallout?? Really? Why is this not the case in abortion? It is definitely true that people have social fallouts as well when they abort! That's all the same. But remember, that's HIS RIGHT!

It might be against his moral codes? What moral codes? Objective moral codes or subjective moral codes? But he accepts DELIBERATE termination of human pregnancy, and depriving one his right of living, of which at the end of the day he screams "that her right!".

Which in other case of bestiality he rejects it, even when the child screams "it is my HUMAN RIGHT!". Bro this is gross hypocrisy!

But, would like to hear more on atheistic moral code. Because this is just bursting my head!

Oh, he feels his son deserves better? But, remember, it is the child's human right! He has the right to satisfy his sexual pleasure, just the way he wants to do it, right?

Amberon:
you are right. it is this grace perverted gospel that sends millions of Christians of hell. "Once saved, always saved" bullcrap. Yes, Jesus Christ has paid the price for our sins but if we there's no forgiveness without confession. 1 John 1: 8 If we say that we have no sin , we deceive ourselves , and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins , He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned , we make Him a liar , and His word is not in us.

May God save us from false preachers.

You foolish anti-grace preacher!

If you really know that John was talking to believers in that verse, please reconcile it with 1John 3:9.

1john 3:9;"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

You sounded so foolish by saying that there is no forgiveness with no confession.

How does confession wash away you sins?

The bible made clear that there is no remission of sins without shed of blood. We were NOT forgiven because we confess our sins, but because a blood has been shed on your behalf.

Keep on riding!
Grace through faith is the way.
More grace on you!

Amberon:
On the contrary, just because you fell from a mango tree doesn't mean others did so too. Its been long established that you're deluded.

Again Revelation 22: 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters , and whoever loves and practices a lie.

1 Corinthians 6: 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators , nor idolaters , nor adulterers , nor homosexuals , nor sodomites ,

10 nor thieves , nor covetous , nor drunkards , nor revilers , nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

5 For this you know , that no fornicator , unclean person , nor covetous man , who is an idolater , has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

Revelation 21: 8 But the cowardly , unbelieving , abominable , murderers , sexually immoral , sorcerers , idolaters , and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone , which is the second death."

Most of the above were said by Christ Jesus himself. Are you calling him a liar??

From all your false teachings , its safe to say that you're the Antichrist which is to come into the world.

The first mention of not inheriting the kingdom of God is found in Paul’s first letter to the church at Corinth. “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Corinthians 6:9-11).

By saying the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God, Paul is stating that the wicked are NOT children of God, nor are they heirs of eternal life(believers) ( Romans 8:17). This DOES NOT MEAN that anybody who has ever committed one of these sins will be denied entrance to heaven.

What differentiates a Christian’s life from that of a non-Christian is the struggle against sin and
the ability to overcome it, NOT as way to look righteous but as a way to heed his body to the service of God.

A true Christian who is under grace will always repent(change of mind, this is different from prayer of forgiveness) which comes through GODLY SORROW that he did something bad, and will always KEEP ON BELIEVING and RELYING on Jesus christ for his righteousness, and as well always resume the struggle against sin, as a way of mortifying the flesh and subjecting it to the knowledge of christ. And not as a way of establiahing HIS OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS. AND THIS DOES NOT CALL FOR WORKS OF SINLESS PERFECTION(law of right living) TO LOOK RIGHTEOUS BEFORE GOD.

Phil 3:9
"And that I may [ACTUALLY] be found and known as in Him, NOT HAVING ANY [SELF- ACHIEVED] RIGHTEOUSNESS that can be called MY OWN, based on my obedience to the Law’s demands (ritualistic uprightness and supposed right standing with God thus acquired), but possessing that [GENUINE RIGHTEOUSNESS] which comes THROUGH FAITH IN CHRIST(the Anointed One), the [TRULY] right standing with God, which comes from God by [saving] FAITH." (AMPC)


But the Bible gives no support for the idea that a person who perpetually and UNREPENTANTLY(without having a change of mind)
ENGAGES in sin can indeed be a Christian. The 1 Corinthians passage lists sins that, if indulged in CONTINUOSLY, identify a person as not being redeemed by Christ, because of his UNREPENTANT behaviour.

The Christian’s response to sin is to hate it, repent of it, and forsake it. We STILL struggle with sin, but by the power of the Holy Spirit who lives in us, we are able to resist and overcome sin.

The hallmark of a true Christian is the decreasing presence of sin in his life, BUT NEVER SINLESS PERFECTION. As Christians grow and mature in the faith, sin has less and less of a hold on us. Of course, sinless perfection is IMPOSSIBLE in this life, but our hatred for sin becomes greater as we mature. Like Paul, we are distressed that sin STILL EXISTS in our flesh, causing us at times to do what we don’t want to do and looking to Christ for relief from this “body of death” ( Romans 7:18-25).


If a person ACTIVELY, PERPETUALLY, and UNREPENTANTLY(with no godly sorrow) lives a homosexual lifestyle, the lifestyle of a thief, a greedy lifestyle, a drunken lifestyle, etc., it is not possible for such a person to be a Christian, and such a person will definitely not inherit the kingdom of God.


Saved by grace, living by grace. It is all about Jesus.

Amberon:
Honestly these people have been misguided by Pastor Chris and Joseph Prince respectively. They never condemn sin.

The worst part of it is the "once saved, always saved" message they're blindfolding gullible followers with. That as long as you've confessed Christ, you can go on to become an armed robber, serial killer, rapist, murderer and you will still make heaven. Perversion!!

I won't waste my prayers on them.

I don't just know why you are fond of calling pastor chris and pastor prince whenever grace gospel is being preached. What exactly is wrong with you?

You won't care about john hagee who is your best preacher, who is USED TO BLOWING unscriptural heresies. And even going forward to say that the jews don't need Jesus to get to heaven. While Jesus told the same Jews of then, that he is the ONLY way the truth and the life, that no one commit to the father Except through him.

Yet, you are not ASHAMED of falling such pastor.

You said this;"That as long as you've confessed Christ, you can go on to become an armed robber, serial killer, rapist, murderer and you will still make heaven. Perversion!!"

Can you prove who said? If pastor chris or pastor prince.

Amberon:
Honestly these people have been misguided by Pastor Chris and Joseph Prince respectively. They never condemn sin.

The worst part of it is the "once saved, always saved" message they're blindfolding gullible followers with. That as long as you've confessed Christ, you can go on to become an armed robber, serial killer, rapist, murderer and you will still make heaven. Perversion!!

I won't waste my prayers on them.

I don't just know why you are fond of calling pastor chris and pastor prince whenever grace gospel is being preached. What exactly is wrong with you?

You won't care about john hagee who is your best preacher, who is USED TO BLOWING unscriptural heresies. And even going forward to say that the jews don't need Jesus to get to heaven. While Jesus told the same Jews of then, that he is the ONLY way the truth and the life, that no one commit to the father Except through him.

Yet, you are not ASHAMED of falling such pastor.

Amberon:
I thought you were a grace preacher too. Lmao!!

My former assistant pastor (a grace preacher) would mount the pulpit right after collabo with his girlfriend and peach this false message because he feels he will still make heaven since "grace has covered sin". hahahahahah

If you think that ALL who have girl friends cannot make heaven. Then, I think your senses will be FILLED WITH CORRUPTION. I just wonder from what kind of mango tree you fall from.

The guy is not a grace preacher, but an adulterer like you who is married to the living jesus(grace) and married to a dead body(moses- law).

Rom 7:1-13;
1 know the law,)how that the law hath dominion
over a man as long as he liveth?
2 For the woman which hath an husband is BOUND
by the law to her husband so long as he liveth ; but if the husband be dead , she is LOOSED from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband liveth , she be
married to another man, she shall be called an
ADULTERESS: but if her husband be dead , she is
free from that law; so that she is no adulteress,
though she be married to another man.
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead
to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.


Divorce moses and marry Jesus!

Gombs:
Avoiding the long epistle of yours, I asked one question and you couldn't say much about it.

Ephesians 6:1-2 my emphasis is on verse 2. It says honour your father and mother, for this is the FIRST COMMANDMENT WITH A PROMISE. According to the Message Translation, Paul said it is the first commandment that has a promise attached to it, namely, "so you will live well and have a long life . Paul was quoting Exodus 20:12

12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

This is/was a part of the commandment God gave Moses. Yes or No?

If yes, why say the law was completely abolished? Paul taught about the law, and did day the law was good, he showed what part of it was discarded, but you just woke up someday and have a "better" claim.

When he said love is the summary of all laws, it didn't imply all the laws were abolished, some are principles with eternal implications, and surely, if you walked in love, you'd definitely Honor your father and mother.

Let me make it clear, I'm not here to argue this with you, this has been properly discussed long before you found some of these knowledge, and I particularly expounded on this in the link below.

https://www.nairaland.com/1578507/without-law-theres-no-foundation#20638159

All those who want to learn from scriptures should visit that thread. I said there that Jesus did not abolish the moral and ethical laws that had been in effect from the time of Moses. He affirmed and expanded upon those principles, but He said obedience must be from the heart (attitudes and intentions) rather than just technical observance of the letter of the law.

Jesus showed that the ethical and moral laws would endure to the end of time, that's why Paul taught on some of these, like in Ephesians 6:1-2.

I could go on and on... For Jesus, Paul and all such taught these law, especially the moral and ethical parts. Let's look at Timothy

Paul made his view of the Old Testament clear in 2 Timothy, a letter filled with instruction for a younger minister. He wrote that “from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures” (2 Timothy 3:15 , emphasis added throughout).

What are the “Holy Scriptures” Paul refers to? At the time this was written, there was no “New Testament”-some of what has since then been called the New Testament hadn't even been written at that point. Paul is referring very clearly to the Old Testament; those were the Holy Scriptures Timothy had been taught since childhood by his Jewish mother (Acts 16:1-3 ).

Though it may be surprising to some, Paul clearly states that these same Scriptures “are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus” ( 2 Timothy 3:15 ).

Salvation was available under the Old Testament Scriptures. And how was it available? “Through faith which is in Christ Jesus.” Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Elijah, Daniel, David and others who are promised eternal life elsewhere in the Scriptures received salvation the same way we do-through faith in Jesus Christ, through faith and belief in a promised Messiah who would redeem them from their sins.

Another example? Sure!

Acts 28 describes Paul's arrival in Rome and the conditions of his confinement there while awaiting trial. He could not leave, but he could receive visitors. “So when they had appointed him a day, many [of the Jewish leaders in Rome] came to him at his lodging, to whom he explained and solemnly testified of the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus from both the Law of Moses and the Prophets , from morning till evening” (Acts 28:23-24 ).


My beloved brother, what did you think Paul was teaching there? Sin offering? Peace offering? Sabbath?

He did not tell them that they no longer needed to heed the Hebrew Scriptures, but rather taught Jesus Christ and the Kingdom of God from these scriptures-strange actions if you believe that Paul tried to turn people away from the Old Testament.

What about Jesus? Remember the famous sermon on the mount?

As a matter of fact, in the middle of his Sermon on the Mount, he paused to stress the truth that the Old Testament laws have not passed away as you think it completely is!

Matthew 5:17-18, "Think not that I came to
abolish the law, or the prophets: I came not to abolish, but to fulfil. For verily I say to you, Until heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle in no wise shall pass away from the law, until all be fulfilled."

Jesus stressed that, in no way, will any part of the Old Testament law pass away, not one jot (dotting of the “i”) or one tittle (crossing if the “t”), no part of God's written law in the Old Testament will pass away until two things (that's your assignment)


Remember the context In Matthew 5, verses 17-18, Jesus said he was not changing the Old Testament law, and in verse 19 He stresses to keep God's Commandments, and in verse 20 He accuses the scribes and Pharisees of being self righteous. Now, verses 21 through 48 is the focal point I want to address, because many people believe Jesus was changing the Old Testament written laws in these passages! I'd have loved to school you more, but I didn't want the post to be longer than it is already, but if you read 21 to 48, Jesus kept saying

"ye have heard"
"it has been said"

Then he'd go "but I say unto you"

First of all, let's get one thing clear. Jesus was not quoting from the written law of the Old Testament in these verses!

Even the choice of words used by Christ indicates that He was addressing a confusion, or a distortion, that was commonplace. Christ used this same “Ye have heard that it hath been said,” or “it hath been said .” figure of speech to straighten out misunderstandings or falsehoods being taught by the religious leaders of the time. In other words, Jesus was dealing with hearsay statements.

Contrast this to Christ's use of the phrase "It is written" or "The Scripture saith" when He was appealing to the Scriptures for authority (for example, see Matthew 4 where on three occasions during His temptation by the devil, Christ answered each one of the devil's lies or misquotes from Scripture with the words: "it is written" ).

The truth is bare for all to see, if you'd want to see fine.. If not, fine.

Thanks for the thread, at this juncture I take my leave.

Cheers

This shows that you just love foolish, baseless and ignorant arguments. You avoided my previous post, and you are repeating most of the things I have answered in my previous answers. And you are here looking for who to argue with. I wouldn't have replied this baseless posts filled with accusations on paul, but I decided to answer for the sake of the readers.

In the case of what paul said about eph6:1-2, I will repeat what I said before;

Eph 6:1-2; "1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, FOR THIS IS RIGHT.
2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise:"

Before we explain this, we have to know what is works of the law. Works of the law is ANYTHING we do because of what the law says, that is, as a way of satisfying the law. When you do what is right BECAUSE the law says so, then those things are works of the law. Very simple!

Paul NEVER said that we should respect our parents, because the law says so(works of the law). If he should say "..because the law says so" then it contradicts him when he said that Jesus has abolished the 10 commandment in eph 2:15 and when he said that we are not under the works of the law. Therefore, making him a LAIR, because two opposite words cannot be coming out from one mouth. It is very satanic!

Eph 2:15;"Having ABOLISHED in his flesh the ENMITY(sin), even the law of COMMANDMENTS(10) contained in ordinances(630+); for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;"

Paul said that we should honour our parents because THIS IS RIGHT!!!! Must you know the law before you know that honouring your parents is right?

The verse 2 is in NO WAY, different from verse 1, it adds NO EXTRA meaning to verse 1. In verse 2, he was trying to make us remember what the ABOLISHED law said about honouring our parents, that's why it was even include inside a parenthesis, just to make a reference.

You said this; "If yes, why say the law was completely abolished? Paul taught about the law, and did day the law was good, he showed what part of it was discarded, but you just woke up someday and have a "better" claim."

Yes, the law was completely abolished. Why? You asked, I will list out the reasons.

The law is an unbearable yoke. (Acts 15:10)

The law reveals sin but cannot fix it. (Romans 3:20)

If the law worked then faith would be irrelevant. (Romans 4:14)

The law brings wrath upon those who follow it. (Romans 4:15)

The purpose of the law was to increase sin. (Romans 5:20)

Christians have been delivered from the law, so going back to the law is an act of ADULTERY. (Romans 7:1-6)

The law is good, perfect and holy but cannot help you be good, perfect or holy. (Romans 7:7-12)

The law which promises life only brings death through sin. (Romans 7:10)

The law makes you sinful beyond measure. (Romans 7:13)

The law is weak. (Romans 8:2-3)

The strength of sin is the law (1 Corinthians 15:56)

The law is a ministry of death. (2 Corinthians 3:7)

The law is a ministry of condemnation. (2 Corinthians 3:9)

The law has no glory at all in comparison with the New Covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:10)

The law is fading away. (2 Corinthians 3:11)

Anywhere the law is preached it produces a mind-hardening and a heart-hardening veil. (2 Corinthians 3:14-15)

The law justifies nobody. (Galatians 2:16)

The law frustrates grace. (Galatians 2:21)

To go back to the law after embracing faith is “stupid”.(Galatians 3:1)

The law curses all who practice it and fail to do it perfectly. (Galatians 3:10)

The law has nothing to do with faith. (Galatians 3:11-12)

The law was a curse that Christ redeemed us from. (Galatians 3:13)

The law functioned in God’s purpose as a temporary covenant from Moses till John the Baptist announced Christ. (Galatians 3:16 & 19, also see… Matthew 11:12-13, Luke 16:16)

If the law worked God would have used it to save us. (Galatians 3:21)

The law was our prison. (Galatians 3:23)

The law makes you a slave like Hagar. (Galatians 4:24)

Christ has abolished the law which was a wall of hostility (Ephesians 2:15)

Paul considered everything the law gained him as “skybalon” which is Greek for “poop”. (Philippians 3:4-

The law is only good if used in the right context. (1 Timothy 1: (see next verse for the context) It was made for the unrighteous but not for the righteous. (1 Timothy 1:9-10)

The law is weak, useless and makes nothing perfect. (Hebrews 7:18-19)

God has found fault with it and created a better covenant, enacted on better promises. (Hebrews
8:7-

It is obsolete, growing old and ready to vanish. (Hebrews 8:13)

It is only a shadow of good things to come and will never make someone perfect. (Hebrews 10:1)

The law of the New testament which Jesus gave us is to BELIEVE in him(for our righteousness) and love one another(to live in peace). Very simple!

1John 3:23;"23 And THIS IS HIS COMMANDMENT, That we should BELIEVE on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and LOVE one another, as he gave us commandment."


You are VERY IGNORANT of what Jesus said about the law, that's why you are blindly trying l to accuse him together with paul. But if only you want to know what Jesus was saying. Each time we talk about the abolishment of the law, you ignorantly use matt5:17 that will always expose your ignorant the more.

If you read Exodus, deuteronomy very well, you will discover that the laws that were given was 10commandments + 630 do and don't(laws). There are many of them that are not just in order, but were never corrected in that matt 5.

For example; among the 630 laws that Jesus corrected, you will see that there are laws that are against wearing clothes of different sorts and colours, eating fishes with scale, building of staircase, using balcony to build houses, the same law is against women wearing what pertaineth to man, plowing with ass and ox together, is also against allowing bastards to enter into the congregation of the lord. Some of them are just terrible to live by. That's why jesus abolished the whole law, because it couldn't justify anyone.

Remember what james said, that if you keep all but fail one, you have failed the WHOLE law. Paul said in Gal 3:12, that law is NOT of faith(law is not of the spirit), and he went on to say that whosoever who wants the law should live by it COMPLETELY. And if you live by it but couldn't keep it all(10commandments and 630 laws), a curse is pronounced on you. God forbid! Read Gal 3:10 with many version to understand it in all ramifications.

If Jesus was giving us a new law to keep, then he would have corrected all those laws I showed you up there. Because, maybe you don't support women who wear trouser, but you wear clothes of diverse sorts and colours, you eat fishes with scale and you see no sin in allowing a bastard into the house of God. That makes no difference between you and women who wear trouser, because both of you break the same law! That's why so many law preachers are just so ignorant of what they preach, because they are GUILTY of the same law they are preaching.

However, to reconcile what Jesus said there, you have to settle it in you mind that Jesus was NOT giving us a new law to live by, which is even tougher than the former, whereas he said that his yoke is not heavy but light. If not so, then we have to make some correction in the 10 and 630 laws that was given, in regard to what Jesus in and live by ALL. It will be very terrible! Because, it can NEVER still justify you. That's why we are no more justify by law keeping but by his blood.

Jesus said that, so as to correct moses, and as well frustrate the jews, who are too blinded with the law and to turn their eyes to the need of Jesus dying for their sins. That's why he made it tougher for them and even told them that except their righteousness exceed that of the scribes and the pharisee they cannot enter the kingdom. This is an indirect fight on their right living(righteousness). The only righteousness that can exceed that of the pharisee is the righteousness of Jesus himself, which is imputed on any man that BELIEVES in him, with no works.

And as well when you look at the verse 18 of that chapter you will see that it was TEMPORAL.
Matt 5:18;"I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God's law will disappear UNTIL IT'S PURPOSE IS ACCOMPLISHED."

This is a verse so many pastors have misinterpreted so much. That verse simply means that at the point the purpose of God's law is ACCOMPLISHED(fulfilled), then the law can be abolished. Very simple! What was the purpose of God's law? To justify us and make us righteous before God. But still couldn't help! So has it been accomplished? Yes, of course! That's the reason of our faith in him and not in law keeping. The purpose of God's law was accomplished at the cross!

Now therefore, we are not justified or made righteous by works of the law(right living), we are made righteous by his blood, that's his righteousness.

Rom 5:1;"Therefore, being justified by faith(in his blood) we have peace with God through our lord Jesus christ"

We don't have peace with God because we live rightly or keep the law, rather we have peace with God because we have been eternally justified by faith through his blood.

Rom 5:9;"Much more then, being now JUSTIFED BY HIS BLOOD, we shall be saved from wrath through him"

We shall not be saved from wrath because of our works of the law(right living), but because we have been justified by his blood.


THE FUNDAMENTAL: our salvation is NOT based on law or personal effort, but based on the perfect finished work of christ and it is all about GRACE.

Amberon:
Revelation 22: 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters , and whoever loves and practices a lie.

Grace is not a gateway ticket to heaven.

The above is one of the last verses in the bible. Not in the old testament. You won't get into heaven without holiness and righteousness otherwise God wouldn't have said this


Matthew 7:21-23 King James Version (KJV)
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord,
shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that
doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22" Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have
we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name
have cast out devils? and in thy name done many
wonderful works?

23" And then will I profess unto them, I never knew
you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Please how does the revelation 22:15 you quoted make the grace gospel a lie?

Grace is not a gateway ticket to heaven? What a seduction and demonic lie. You know that I have always labelled you, an ANTI CHRIST and an ACCURSED. And each time you talk, it shows itself.

That grace is not a ticket to heaven? But law? You are very devilish and demonic, but the grace of God will locate you. Chai, I don hear mess today!

John 1:17;"For the LAW(works) was given by moses, but GRACE AND TRUTH(faith) came by Jesus christ"

With this, you are already denying our lord jesus. If grace cannot take one to heaven, it means that Jesus cannot take one to heaven. So we should follow the law, so that we can be accursed like you.

Gal 3:10;
"Anyone who TRIES TO PLEASE GOD BY OBEYING
THE LAW is under a CURSE. The Scriptures say,
“Everyone who doesn’t obey everything in the Law is under a curse.” (CEV)

The bible made is clear that works are of the law(moses) while faith is of grace(Jesus).

So you are trying to say that righteousness by faith is falsehood.

The below are 101 scriptural proofs that shows that you are an anti-christ who even went extremely in denying our lord.


1. Eph. 2:8-9 - "For BY GRACE are ye SAVED THROUGH FAITH; and that NOT OF YOURSELVES: it is the GIFT of God: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast."

2. Rom. 4:6-7 - God imputes "Righteousness without works" through grace by faith.

3. Rom. 10:3 - It's a grave mistake for anyone to try to, "Establish their own righteousness."

4. Rom. 5:17 - Heaven deserving righteousness is a "GIFT," not something you earn.

5. Rom. 5:18 - Justification to God is a "FREE GIFT," not something you work toward.

6. Phil. 3:9 - Paul, as ‘good’ as he was, still. wouldn't trust his "Own righteousness" to save him.

7. Rom. 3:22 - God's righteousness is credited to "ALL THEM THAT BELIEVE," not all that work.

8. Rom. 8:3-4 - The flesh is too "Weak" to save itself. We need a Saviour. We need Christ.

9. Rom. 4:3 - Abraham's faith, not works, "Was counted unto him for righteousness."

10. Rom. 4:4-5 - Works are "Not reckoned of grace, but of debt." Faith is counted as righteousness.

11. Gal. 3:10 - To earn Heaven you'd have to "Continueth," perfectly, in the whole law and if you can't keep the whole of it(10 commandments and 600+laws) you are under curse. Only faith is needed.

12. Titus 3:5 - "NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost."

13. John 5:24 - In Christ we've "PASSED from death unto life." We don't have to "wait" to find out.

14. Rom. 9:31-32 - Israel, "Sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law."

15. Acts 4:12 - No other name but Christ can save us-- not the name of works, nor our own name.

16. John 1:12-13 - Only God's power, through His Son, makes us a child of God. We are not born into
God's family by "Blood" (heritage, family ‘pedigree’), "Nor will of the flesh" (good works), "Nor will of man." (minister, or man made religion), "But of God."

17. Isa. 45:22 - No one else can save a soul from Hell but God; "There is none else."

18. Acts 13:39 - "And by him [Christ] all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye
COULD NOT BE JUSTIFIED by the law of Moses."

19. Rom. 8:7 - We can't follow God's law even if we wanted to. So how can we save ourselves?

20. Matthew 7:21-23 - Christ describes a future scene in which some who are trusting in their "Many wonderful works," will, sadly, be told by Christ: "I never knew you: depart from me, Ye that work iniquity." Their good works will not save them. We all have to trust Christ, and Him ALONE.

21. John 10:1 - We must enter through Christ, "THE DOOR," not by "Some other way.."

22. John 8:24 - A person can work all they want, but it won't save them. Jesus said the bottom line is that, "If ye believe not that I am he [the only way], ye shall die in your sins."

23. Rom. 4:2 - If Abraham could have saved himself, he'd have something to brag about.

24. Acts 10:1-43 - Cornelius' good works would put anyone today to shame, yet he still had to get saved by trusting solely in Christ to save him.

25. Rom. 3:27-28 - "Where is boasting then?...Of WORKS? nay."

26. 1 John 5:13 - If your salvation depends on a lifetime of good works, then why does the Bible teach that you could "KNOW" for sure, before you die, that you are going to Heaven? The answer is because salvation doesn't depend on you, but on Christ, who ALREADY paid the price for your sins.

27. Heb. 1:3 - "He had BY HIMSELF purged our sins." He doesn't need help from us!

28. Heb. 2:3 - If we have to work at earning it, why does the Bible call it "So great salvation"?

29. Heb. 2:9-10 - Christ is "The CAPTAIN of their salvation." He tasted "Death for every man."

30. Heb. 2:14-15 - Christ is the one who will "DELIVER" us from death, not ourselves!


31. Heb. 2:17 - Christ makes "RECONCILIATION for the sins." We can't reconcile ourselves.

32. Heb. 5:9 - Christ is "The AUTHOR of eternal salvation," not us! It's not in our hands.

33. Gal. 2:16 - "Knowing that a man IS NOT JUSTIFIED BY THE WORKS of the law, but by the
faith of Jesus Christ, ....that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and NOT by the WORKS of the law: FOR BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW SHALL NO FLESH BE JUSTIFIED."

34. Heb. 9:28 - "Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many." God won't accept good works.

35. Heb. 10:10-12 - Christ's body was offered "Once for all." So stop insulting God with your works.

36. Heb. 10:14 - "For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them." STOP WORKING at it!

37. Heb. 10:17-18 - "There is no more offering for sin." So stop offering your good works.

38. 2 Cor. 1:9 - "We should not trust in ourselves, but in God," who has ALREADY paid the price.

39. 2 Cor. 1:10 - Christ "Delivered us from so great a death." He had to; we can't deliver ourselves.

40. Eph. 1:12-13 - You are saved by trusting in Christ, and, "After that believed, ye were SEALED."

41. Jer. 17:5 - "Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm."

42. Job 25:4 - "How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?" (For God's answer, see Isaiah 1:18)

43. Isa. 12:2 - "Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust." Don't trust good works, trust the Saviour.

44. Luke 18:9-14 - Jesus gives a parable teaching that self righteousness WILL NOT save a person.

45. Ezek. 33:13 - "If he trust to his own righteousness..." He better be perfectly sinless or else!

46. John 14:6 - Jesus said, "I am THE WAY...no man cometh unto the Father, BUT BY ME."

47. 1 Tim. 2:5-6 - There's ONLY "One mediator between God and men," Jesus Christ, not ourselves.

48. Col. 2:14 - Christ took our sin debt, "Nailing it to his cross." It's ALREADY paid for!

49. John 19:30 - While on the cross, Christ said, "It is finished." It's paid. We don't have to work for it.

50. Matt. 11:28-30 - Christ offers "REST" to all those working at trying to earn their way to Heaven.

51. Isa. 53:4-6 - Christ was, "WOUNDED FOR OUR transgressions." Why? So WE don't have to be.

52. Heb. 4:9-10 - The person who accepts Christ as Saviour, "Hath CEASED from his own works."

53. Gal. 2:21 - If you could earn Heaven, why did Christ die? "Then Christ is dead in vain."

54. Rom. 3:20 - "Therefore by the deeds of the law there SHALL NO FLESH BE JUSTIFIED in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin."

55. Gal. 5:1-4 - "Christ hath made us free." He had to; we can't free ourselves, no matter how "good."

56. 2 Tim. 1:10 - "Our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death," with no help from us.

57. 1 John 4:14 - Christ was sent, "To be the Saviour of the world"; we couldn't save ourselves.

58. 1 Tim. 4:10 - "The Saviour of ALL men." Why try to save yourself? You already have a Saviour.

59. Acts 16:30-31 - When the Philippian jailer asked, "What must I do to be saved?" Paul didn't say, keep the Ten Commandments, but rather, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved."

60. Luke 7:49-50 - Christ told the woman: "Thy faith hath saved thee," not thy works!

61. Eph. 1:7 - "Redemption through HIS BLOOD, the forgiveness of sins," not through our works.

62. 1 Pet. 1:3-5 - "According to his abundant MERCY," not according to our good deeds.

63. Rev. 1:5 - Christ, "Washed us from our sins in his own blood"; can't wash ourselves with works.

64. Titus 3:7 - We are "Justified by his grace," not by our good deeds, baptism, or church membership.

65. Titus 2:11 - "The grace of God that BRINGETH SALVATION hath appeared to ALL MEN."

66. Eph. 4:32 - We are forgiven, "For Christ's sake," not because of our good behavior.

67. Eph. 2:4-5 - "(By grace ye are saved)," not by works. The two DON'T mix according to Rom. 11:6.

68. Acts 26:18 - "Through this man[Christ] ...forgiveness of sins," not through
our efforts!

69. Heb. 7:25 - Only Christ is "Able to
save." Only He can "Make INTERCESSION
for them."

70. Rom. 3:10 - "There is none righteous,
no, not one." So how can anyone save
themselves?

71. Rom. 3:12 - "There is none that
doeth good, no, not one." So how can
anyone save themselves?

72. Eccl. 7:20 - "There is not a just man
upon earth, that doeth good." Can
anyone save themselves?

73. Rom. 4:25 - Christ has already died for
our sins. He, "Was delivered for our
offences and raised
again FOR OUR JUSTIFICATION." So what
role does a person play in their own salvation?

74. Rom. 5:10 - "We are reconciled to
God by the death of his Son," not by the
fruits of our works.

75. John 6:28-29 - "Then said they unto
him, WHAT SHALL WE DO, that we might
work the works
of God? Jesus answered and said unto
them, THIS IS THE WORK OF GOD, THAT
YE BELIEVE
ON HIM whom he hath sent."

76. 1 Pet. 3:18 - "Suffered for us...that
HE might bring us to God." Do we have to
help Him save us?
Didn't He suffer enough to pay the price?
Heb. 7:25 says He did. He saves to "The
uttermost."

77. Matt. 5:20 - Your self-righteousness
would have to surpass that of the Pharisees--
Impossible! But possible by faith ALONE in christ because the righteousness of Jesus is perfect and not ours.

78. 1 John 2:2 - Christ, "Is the propitiation
[payment]...for the sins of the whole
world." If He can
pay for the sins of the whole world, why would
He need our help in saving us-- mere
individuals?

79. Rom. 8:8 - "They that are in the flesh
cannot please God." So what chance does
anyone have?

80. Rom. 3:23-25 - Through Christ's death
we are "Justified freely" (made right with
God). His death
provides: "Redemption" (we are bought
back to God), "Propitiation" (a settlement of
our sin debt),
"Remission [forgiveness] of sins." It's all
by God's "Grace" not our works.

81. James 2:10-11 - "For whosoever shall
keep the whole law, and yet offend in
ONE POINT, he is
guilty of all." We can't possibly save
ourselves; God demands sinless perfection.
We need a Saviour.

82. Romans 5:8-9 - We are "Justified by
his blood," not our good works. That's why
"When we were
sinners, Christ died for us." Therefore,
"We shall be saved from wrath through
him."

83. Matt. 18:11 - Jesus came "To save that
which was lost [us]." Why? Because we
can't save ourselves.
Otherwise, why send Christ to die for our sins
if we could pay for them ourselves?

84. Acts 15:10-11 - "Through the grace
of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be
saved," not through
works. Grace is not works; works is not
grace, as explained in Rom. 11:6

85. 2 Cor. 5:21 - "Christ was made sin for
us...that we might be made the
righteousness of God in
him." Why trust our own "righteousness" if
God offers to impute us His righteousness?
(Rom. 4:22-24)

86. Matt. 19:25-26 - "When his disciples
heard it, they were exceedingly amazed,
saying, WHO THEN
CAN BE SAVED? But Jesus beheld them,
and said unto them, WITH MEN THIS IS
IMPOSSIBLE;
but with God all things are possible."

87. Rom. 5:1 - "Therefore being
JUSTIFIED BY FAITH, we have PEACE
WITH GOD through our
Lord Jesus Christ." There can be no real
peace when a person spends their life
wondering if they have done
enough good works. Peace is knowing it's
been paid for ALREADY.

88. 2 Tim. 1:9 - "Who hath saved us, and
called us with an holy calling, NOT
ACCORDING TO OUR
WORKS, but according to his own
purpose and grace, which was given us
in Christ Jesus before the
world began." God had a "payment plan"
ready before any of us were even alive to
work!

89. Rom. 10:9-13 - "That if thou shalt
confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus
[i.e. Repent], and shalt
believe in thine heart [i.e. Trust] that God
hath raised him from the dead, THOU
SHALT BE SAVED
...For whosoever shall CALL upon the
name of the Lord SHALL BE SAVED."

90. Rom. 11:6 - "And if by grace, then is
it no more of works: otherwise grace is
no more grace."

91. Gal. 1:4, 92. Rom. 1:16, 93. Gal.
3:21, 94. Heb. 9:22, 95. 1 Tim. 2:6, 96.
Acts 10:43,
97. Isa. 43:11, 98. Gal. 3:24, 99. Heb.
9:12-14, 100. 1 Tim. 1:15, 101. Heb. 6:1

Splinz:
It's really a very pathetic situation! All what they do is to search the scriptures for verses that seems to support their preconceived ideas, and then churn out these verses distorted and out of context, therefore misleading 'babies' in the process.

How can a supposed Christian say there's no more sin? This statement alone has exposed who he is- a liar and deceiver! If there's no more sin, then lets kill, fornicate, commit adultery, steal, worship false gods, etc. After all, isn't the Law done away and sin no more? What delusion!

Please, I challenge you to put up verses that you said that is against the grace Gospel.

I know that babies can always can adults babies, so that's no a problem to me.

When I said they that there is no more sin, I was LOGICAL with the law. I said that when there is no law, sin is no more because it is dead and this is all talking about righteousness before God. In the righteousness before men, it is all about work of righteousness(law) and not faith.


Mind you, I never said that sin does not exist when there is law, rather I said that sin OUTSIDE LAW is dead. And I proved that with the scriptures, which you couldn't disprove up till now.

I am deluded? Lol. I pray that God will deliver you from the curse of the law, which you are under.

We are don't kill, fornicate, commit adultery, steal, worship false gods because the abolished law says so. Rather, we don't do that because of the love of God that has been shed abroad in our heart. And that is never calling for hypocritical sinless perfect by works of righteousness.

Splinz:
"Yes of course, it was abolished together with sin. There is no more sin and law!". I've not bothered reading your long epistles churned out of context, just after reading your above statement. There's no more SIN God, what delusion! You mean you actually went this extreme just to hold on to your false preconceived ideas

Initially I thought we could reason together, but not again. For it is written, "Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with LAWLESSNESS? And what communion has light with darkness? And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an UNBELIEVER?- 2 Corinthians 6:14-15. So you see, we're two side of a coin. One is a lawless one, and the other, the very opposite. And like Paul, I ask, what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? Certainly none!

And lastly, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us"- 1 John 1:8. Having scrutinized you in light of the scriptures, I make bold to say that you're a willing tool of Satan, perverting God's word! And I surely wanna offer you this advice of Apostle Peter and prayed you heed it, "Repent, therefore, of this wickedness of yours, and pray to the Lord that, if possible, the intent of your heart may be forgiven you"- Acts 8:22.

My friend, though it looks so silly to reply your post, when you didn't read through all the post. But, I have no problem with that.

Please, learn to disprove biblical facts with biblical proofs!

To avoid making a shameful show of yourself, please point out ANY SINGLE verse that says that the laws of God given through moses, were not abolished.

My friend, we are not here to argue, we are here to dialogue. If you say that the law was not abolished, or sin was not abolished. Then, without making noise, point out any verse to back your proof.

Oh, you even went on to say that I am a willing tool of the devil, lol. You are just very funny to me. Thank you, but you can try harder.

You quoted 2cor 6:14 but you still do not know the meaning of the verse you quoted. And you went extra mile to call me an unbeliever. Are you really a follower of christ? Hmm, it is well.

You said this;"So you see, we're two side of a coin. One is a lawless one, and the other, the very opposite."

The above means that I am lawless(which you falsely proved) and you are lawful. Meaning that I don't keep the law, but you keep the law.

I NEVER said that the sin is no more on it's own, rather I said that when there is no law, sin is dead; which is evident in the bible.

Rom 7:8; "But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. FOR WITHOUT LAW SIN WAS DEAD."

Please, where you quoted in 1john 1:9; was john talking to born again christians? If yes reconcile it with 1john 3:6,8-9.

1john 3:6,8-9; "6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

According to your last verse of acts, what is does it mean to repent(so that I can understand you better)?


Let us just understand the category where both of us fall into.

1cor 6:14;

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers, for what fellowship hath righteousness with UNRIGHTEOUSNESS? And what communion hath light with darkness?" (KJ21).

"Be not unequally yoked with unbelievers: for what fellowship have righteousness and INIQUITY? or what communion hath light with darkness?" (ASV)

"Stay away from people who are not
followers of the Lord! Can someone who is good get along with someone who is EVIL? Are light and darkness the same?" (CEV)

"Bear not the yoke with unbelievers. For what participation hath justice with INJUSTICE? Or what fellowship hath light with darkness?" (DRA)

"Do not be yoked together with
unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?" (NIV)

So by this, it means that you have falsely concluded that I and as well as paul who said that without law, sin is dead and that all the laws were abolished; are lawless, unrighteous, wicked, unbelievers, evil, filled with iniquity and unjust. God have mercy!!!

However, let's take a close look on the above verse.

Are we made righteous because we keep the law? No!

Gal 2:21; "I do not ignore or nullify the [gracious gift of the] grace of God [His amazing, unmerited favor], for if RIGHTEOUSNESS comes through [OBSERVING] the LAW OF GOD, then Christ died NEEDLESSLY. [His suffering and death would have had no purpose whatsoever.]"

For one to say that he is righteous before God because he keeps the law of God, it means that the person is frustrating, ignoring and nullifying the grace of God, by making his death look needless. And that is a demonic seduction and lies!

We are righteous, not because we keep the law, but because the DEMAND for the law of righteousness has being fulfilled in us on the BASIS OF FAITH.

Rom 8:4;"That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

Walking after the spirit is NOT sinless perfection through works of righteousness. Walking in the spirit means, walking in the FAITH and persuasion of the finished work of christ.

Walking in flesh is not sinless imperfection, rather it means walking in the HUMAN EFFORT which makes people to live by works of the law. In other words living by works of the law is also, living by flesh because it is based on human effort.

Gal 3:3;"Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit(faith in christ), are you now being perfected by the living after the FLESH(human effort/works of the law)? (ASV)

"Are you so foolish? Although you began with the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by HUMAN EFFORT(flesh/works of the law)?" (NET)

The law of righteousness is not what WE fulfil in ourselves, rather it is what God, himself, fulfils in us by the faith we have in christ.

If you say that the law of righteousness is fulfilled in us by ourselves, when we obey God's law, then you are giving God a satanic attribute, which means that God is author of lies and confusion, because it makes him a lair over his word in phil 3:9. GOD FORBID that God will be a lair over his word!!!!

Phil 3:9; "and may be found in Him [believing and relying on Him], NOT HAVING ANY RIGHTEOUSNESS OF MY OWN DERIVED FROM [MY OBEDIENCE TO] THE LAW OF GOD and its rituals, but
[possessing] that [GENUINE RIGHTEOUSNESS] which comes through
FAITH(believing) IN CHRIST, the righteousness which comes from God on the BASIS OF FAITH.


The fulfilled law of righteousness is imputed on anybody who believes in Jesus, WITHOUT THE DEED OF THE ABOLISHED LAW.

Rom 4:24; "but also for us, to whom God will IMPUTS righteousness(fulfilled law of righteousness)—for us who BELIEVE IN HIM who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead."

Who are they that are lawless, wicked, evil, unjust, unbelievers? They are not people who don't keep the abolished law. If not, then Jesus who violated sabbath, and paul who talked against law keepers, were lawless, wicked, and evil. And many more of them. God forbid!

They are people, who don't believe in christ, who fulfils the law of righteousness in them with no works.

In conclusion of my case, I have let go of the abolished law, believing and relying on his righteousness(jesus), which has been imputed on me with no works of law.

Therefore I am righteous and a believer. You can raise more biblical proofs to prove me wrong.

Now let us judge your condition;

You said that I am lawless, which has been proved as false, and that you are lawful. Because you regard the law and live by it.

As we speak, the only thing I can tell you about that, is that as we speak you are ALREADY ACCURSED!

I am not cursing you, but the bible says that you are cursed. Sorry for you!


Gal 3:10;
"Anyone who TRIES TO PLEASE GOD BY OBEYING THE LAW is under a CURSE. The Scriptures say, “Everyone who doesn’t obey everything in the Law is under a curse.” (CEV)

"But people who depend on following
the law TO MAKE THEM RIGH ARE under
a CURSE. As the Scriptures say, “They
must do everything that is written in
the law. If they do not always obey,
they are under a curse.” (ERV)

"Those who depend on OBEYING THE LAW live under a CURSE. For the scripture says, “Whoever does not always obey everything that is written in the book of the Law is under God's curse!” (GNT)

"Everyone, however, who is involved in
TRYING TO KEEP THE LAW DEMANDS falls
under a CURSE, for it is written: ‘Cursed
is everyone who does not continue in
all things which are written in the
book of the Law, to do them." (PHILLIPS)

"All who depend on OBEYING THE LAW are under a CURSE. It is written, “May
everyone who doesn’t continue to do
everything written in the Book of the
Law be under God’s curse.” (Deuteronomy 27:26)" (NIRV)

"All those who EXPECT THE LAW TO SAVE THEM FROM THE PUNISHMENT OF SIN will
be PUNISHED. Because it is written,
“Everyone who does not keep on doing all the things written in the Book of the Law will be punished.” (NLV)

"A CURSE is on all people WHO ARE TRYING TO BECOME GOOD BY OBEYING THE LAW. The holy writings say, Everyone is cursed who does not always obey everything that is written in the book of the law and do it." (WE)


The fact that you are already accursed, makes you the satanic and demonic willing tool of the devil, which the devil is using in subjecting more people to curse, but I tell you, your plans and agenda of subjecting more people to curse shall not come to pass. You better wake up and know that you a SERVANT OF DEMONS.


Divorce law, you adulterer(rom 7:1-4) and marry grace!

Splinz:
Delving out of lane is a small matter cos he can be put back on track. But unfortunately, he's actually lost! Pray for the delusional mind. Perhaps, God's mercy may rescue him.

Please, it looks foolish when you are disproving biblical facts with NO biblical proof.

Please, show up any biblical proof to disprove my point.

Gombs:
I find this common with most grace preachers... Alot of them really take it to the extreme. Some folks here took time out to assemble "grace convention"... It's an eyesore considering their submissions, though not all were wrong.

Promise is doing fine, I'm sure he'd retrace his steps.

Please, ask any question that you are seeing as harmful among grace preachers.

I am preaching my own gospel of Jesus(grace) on the basis of the scriptures here.

When you are contrary to any idea, you can put up biblical verses. Thank you.

Stay in grace alone!

Gombs:
Promise101, i have read through your writings lately and find it worrisome that you're delving out of lane. For example

you cant just wholly write that the law was COMPLETELY TERMINATED, for we know the aspect of the law that was abolished, Paul even said the law was good, in fact, he taught on some of these retained laws, a good example is found in Ephesians 6:1-2.

my question is, what was Paul trying to prove, when he quoted elements of the law (not the aspect abolished by Jesus now)? If the law was wholly terminated, where then does Ephesians 6:1-2 falls?


i saw this line, and I paused



Do you know why CHRISTIANS are dead to sin? Sin is dead?

The christian is DEAD TO SIN, and alive to God, because all of us were born "dead in sin", before we can ever hope to be "dead to sin,". Paul writes in Ephesians 2:1 that before we became Christians, we were all "dead in [our] transgressions and sins." Of course he does not mean that we are physically dead. Rather, the life of a person who has not experienced new life in Christ is characterized by spiritual death. This means that person is separated from God's salvation.

I really don't understand how you arrived at sin is dead!, that is very different from "dead to sin"

Please, I beg you. We are not here to argue but to dialogue. If you want me to argue with you, then I may not reply your comments again. Christians don't argue, we dialogue.

Please, you can ask any question on my writings that are out of lane. No long post please, just ask questions. That's the purpose of this thread.

You said this;"..for we know the aspect of the law that was abolished.."

I find the above statement as an ignorant statement. Please, no matter the level of knowledge you have about the law and grace, you can NEVER be too old to be corrected. Let us not allow our foolishness to prove itself to be wiser than God.

I said in my former comment, that ALL the laws were abolished, including the 10 commandments. But you are getting mad at that.

Please, this is God's word, if you argue with God's word, you are directly arguing with him. I am going to show you a scriptural proof, but if you still don't believe, the best solution is to pray and ask God what happened. At worst, you can tear out the verse from your bible, in case you don't like the fact that the bible says so.

Eph 2:15;"Having ABOLISHED in his flesh the ENMITY(sin), even the law of COMMANDMENTS(10) contained in ordinances(630+); for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;"

I don't just know why you are having a hard time with this verse. Is it because it included the 10 laws of commandment? Please, if prayer cannot help you accept this truth, you can tear this verse out of your bible. Period!

Let's look at one of the chapters where paul talked about law.

Rom 7:1-13;
1 know the law,)how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2 For the woman which hath an husband is BOUND by the law to her husband so long as he liveth ; but if the husband be dead , she is LOOSED from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband liveth , she be married to another man, she shall be called an ADULTERESS: but if her husband be dead , she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of
Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the MOTIONS OF SIN, WHICH WERE BY THE LAW, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held ; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid . Nay, I HAD NOT KNOW SIN, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said , Thou shalt not covet .
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. FOR WITHOUT LAW SIN WAS DEAD.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the COMMANDMENT CAME , SIN REVIVED, and I died .
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I FOUND TO BE UNTO DEATH.
11 For sin, taking occasion BY THE COMMANDMENT, DECIEVED ME, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me BY THAT WHICH IS GOOD(law); that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful."


In the above, paul from verse 1-4;faulted anyone who is married to the living Jesus and at the same time married to the dead moses, as an adulterer. You can't be married to moses(works of the law) and be married to Jesus(faith). That's adultery!

I don't want to fault you as an adulterer, but you just fell under the category. You are shouting grace but still observing the law. The bible made it clear that law(works) and faith(grace) does not work together.

Gal 3:12;"But the LAW HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FAITH. Instead, "The person who keeps the commandments will have life in them."

Is the 10 laws of commandments no more law? Yes, it is! And the bible made it clear that it has NOTHING to do with faith(grace). Very simple to understand!


No one said that the law is sin. According to verse 12, it says that the law of commandment is good, holy and just. But the problem is the effect of law on us, which was the reason why it was abolished.

Problem 1: Motions of sins are INSPIRED by the holy law. See vs 5.

Problem 2: The holy law is NOT sin but by the holy law is the knowledge and power of sin. See vs 7 and rom 3:20.
Rom 3:20; "20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE(power) OF SIN."

Problem 3: Without the holy law, sin is DEAD. See vs 8.

Problem 4: We were alive before the holy law came, but when the holy law of COMMANDMENT came, it REVIVED SIN. See vs 9.

Problem 5: The holy law of commandment was given for a good purpose(to make man righteous), which is to give life, but we found it to be unto death. See verse 10.

Problem 6: Sin takes occasion BY THE HOLY COMMANDMENTS, and deceiving man. Making us think that we can never be righteous. See verse 11.

Problem 7: The holy law of commandment was good, even in it's purpose, but WORKS DEATH in us.

The above are the problems we see in ourselves when we try to keep the law. But at the end can not justify us. And for this reasons(and even many more), it was imperfect to carry out it's purpose, which is to make us righteous. So, it has to be abolished!


Let's look at the eph 6:1-2 you referred to;

One thing I love so much about paul's writings is that he was very conscious of the word he uses, to avoid people misinterpreting him.

Eph 6:1-2; "1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, FOR THIS IS RIGHT.
2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise:"

Before we explain this, we have to know what is works of the law. Works of the law is ANYTHING we do because of what the law says, that is, as a way of satisfying the law. When you do what is right BECAUSE the law says so, then those things are works of the law. Very simple!

Paul NEVER said that we should respect our parents, because the law says so(works of the law). If he should say "..because the law says so" then it contradicts him when he said that Jesus has abolished the 10 commandment in eph 2:15 and when he said that we are not under the works of the law. Therefore, making him a LAIR, because two opposite words cannot be coming out from one mouth. It is very satanic!

Paul said that we should honour our parents because THIS IS RIGHT!!!! Must you know the law before you know that honouring your parents is right?

The verse 2 is in NO WAY, different from verse 1, it adds NO EXTRA meaning to verse 1. In verse 2, he was trying to make us remember what the ABOLISHED law said about honouring our parents, that's why it was even include inside a parenthesis, just to make a reference.

Just like today; we don't go to church because the law says so(works of the law), we go to church because it is right.

You said this:"Do you know why CHRISTIANS are dead to sin? Sin is dead?"

If being dead to sin in your understanding is sinless perfection by works of righteousness, then it means that no man is yet dead to sin, including paul. Unless you want to act like hypocrites.

We are not dead to sin or dead in our sins and trespasses according to eph 2:1 because we live rightly(works of the law). Not at all!

we are dead to sin, and as well DEAD TO THE LAW, because we BELIEVE in christ who has destroyed the works of devil(sin) through law, by being made the CURSE OF THE LAW OF COMMADMENT on our behalf at the cross and also been made righteousness and holiness on our behalf from the time of his resurrection.

Sin is dead? Law is dead? Yes of course!

Rom 7:4&8; "4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become DEAD TO THE LAW BY THE BODY OF CHRIST; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. FOR WITHOUT LAW SIN WAS DEAD."

If you don't believe this, just go and question God. If you get no reply, you can tear the passage out of your bible. Very simple!

If you are having any contradiction, please put up a scriptural proof to disprove it.


Stay in grace alone!

Peritus:
I cant fault your submission. I'm particularly in love with your statement that, "God's grace is not a license to sin, rather a license to receive the gift of NO condemnation without the deed of the law."
Do you believe in once under grace, always under grace (even when one turns around)? If you do, reconcile it with these:
1.Hebrews 12:14-16, which says we should "pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: looking carefully lest anyone FALL SHORT of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many BECOME DEFILED; lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright”.
2. Galatians 5:4: “You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have FALLEN from grace.
3. 1 Corinthians 10:12 “Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he FALL".
4. 1 Corinthians 9:27 “But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a CAST AWAY.
5. 1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will DEPART from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons.
I understand from above that grace could be lost due to future unrepentant actions, and/or reverting back to justification by the law. Do you have any contrary view sir?

1. Heb 12:14-16;"14 Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and TO BE HOLY; without HOLINESS no one will see the Lord.
15 See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many.
16 See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal "

We are not making every effort to live in peace with everybody, to see God(eternal life), rather we are to be holy before we can see God.

Peaceful living is NOT a criteria to earn eternal life(see God). If peaceful living makes us get eternal life, then what of people who are not christians but they live in peace, does it mean they will see God? Absolutely not!

The reason why we should live in peace is because it is what is expected of us, and NOT a criteria to see God. Otherwise, doesn't that make eternal life look like a REWARD for peaceful living? Eternal life is a free gift!

The criteria to see God is HOLINESS/righteousness/justification.

The biblical greek meaning of holiness is sacredness.

Now, we have to point out what kind of holiness is that. However, the ONLY holiness or righteousness that can make you see God is the holiness of God HIMSELF. The holiness that makes God PERFECT.

There is NO DOUBT that no one can live and prove by his works of righteousness, to be as SACRED as God. Just, think about how sacred God is, before you can agree with me on that. Until a man is as sacred as God he can NEVER see God.

Matt 5:48;"Be ye therefore PERFECT as your father in heaven is perfect"

Was jesus saying that sinless perfection by WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, is what makes us perfect? No!

The holiness of God which we MUST have is not right living(works) or our HYPOCRITICAL works of sinless perfection. These things are works of the law, which won't take anybody to anywhere.

Gal 3:11;"But that NO MAN IS MADE RIGHTEOUS(justified) BY THE LAW OF RIGHTEOUSNESS(right living) in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live BY FAITH(believing)."

Right living is YOUR OWN righteousness and holiness which is NEVER perfect as GOD'S.

Jesus is the PERFECT HOLINESS of the believers!

Our righteousness and holiness is not works of right living, but Jesus. That's why it is imputed on us on the BASIS OF FAITH ALONE.

1cor 1:30;"But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God IS MADE UNTO US wisdom, and righteousness, and HOLINESS, and redemption:"

Phil 3:9;" and may be found in Him [BELIEVING AND RELYING on Him], NOT HAVING ANY RIGHTEOUSNESS OF MY OWN derived from [my obedience to] the Law of God and its rituals, but [possessing] that [GENUINE RIGHTEOUSNESS] which comes through
FAITH(believing) IN CHRIST, the righteousness which comes from God on the BASIS OF FAITH.

Jesus is our holiness and righteousness. Anybody who believes in christ, on him is this righteousness of Jesus(himself) imputed , WITHOUT THE DEED of the law.

Rom 3:28;"Therefore we CONCLUDE that a man is MADE RIGHTEOUS(justified) BY FAITH WITHOUT THE DEED OF THE LAW."

Rom 4:5;"But to him that WORKETH NOT(works of righteousness), but BELIEVETH on him that justifieth the ungodly, HIS FAITH IS COUNTED(imputed) FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS."

Now, let's go to verse 15;"15 See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many."

As I said before, what can make a believer fall from grace is relying on their works, rather than KEEPING ON in believing. And I showed you a scriptural proof on that.

So the verse 15 was saying that we should see to it that no one is losing hope in believing or relying in his works, which can make the person fall from grace.

And as well also see to it, that no bitter root grows up to cause problem and defile many.

How can bitter root defile many before God? Bitter roots can defile many before God, when they loose hope in their "BELIEVING" in christ maybe out of depression, disagreement and frustration and anger between his fellow christian brethen. And going on to think that his faith in christ is useless.

How can bitter roots defile many before man? Before we can answer this, we have to note that we are justified by our WORKS of righteousness BEFORE MEN. We christians can look defiled before men, when bitter roots, such as troubles and disagreements, affects our works of righteousness negatively, which people around us require as the proof of our salvation.


Verse 16;"16 See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal "

The above means that we should also see that we are not sexually immoral or godless(atheism), which can render our faith useless before men. Being sexually immoral in that context is when a person has DECIDED and AGREED to VOLUNTARY give his body to sex as a TOOL, that's prostitution, which is quite different from falling into a temptation of sex. If you still couldn't get this, you can ask more question on this.


2. The only thing that can easily make a believer fall from grace is when the believer starts to rely on his works of righteousness(law). Thereby, no more relying on the FAITH in christ.

Gal 5:4;"Christ is become of NO EFFECT unto you, whosoever of you are MADE RIGHTEOUS(justified) BY THE LAW; ye are
FALLEN FROM GRACE"

3. 1cor 10:12-13;"12 Wherefore let him that THINKETH he standeth take heed lest he FALL.
13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is COMMON to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."

"FALL" in that context means falling INTO TEMPTATION, which is difference from falling from grace. He was talking about temptation. In verse 13, he said that temptation taking us is COMMON to man. Why? Because we were not, we are not and can never be perfect by right living.

Falling into temptation, leads NOWHERE but sin. Someone can fall into temptation of sin, but still in grace.

Paul FELL into temptation, abraham(the father of faith) fell into temptation via ishmeal, moses fell many times, peter fell MANY TIMES, but they NEVER fell from grace. No one is above falling into temptation.

4. 1cor 9:24-27;"24 Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the PRIZE? Run in such a way as to get the PRIZE.
25 Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get A CROWN that will not last, but we do it to get A CROWN THAT WILL LAST FOREVER.
26 Therefore I do not run like someone running aimlessly; I do not fight like a boxer beating the air.
27 No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be DISQUALIFIED FOR THE PRIZE."

The above passage, is one of the most MISINTERPRETED passages of the scriptures anti-grace preachers use to subject people to works of the law as a means of entering heaven, and as well subjecting them to the curse of the law.

To understand what MY VERY SPIRITUAL FATHER Paul was saying, I had to capitalise the word "PRIZE", "CROWN THAT LASTS FOREVER" and "DISQUALIFIED FOR THE PRIZE".

Please, this is very simple to understand!

Prize means reward.

Anti-grace preachers make a GIFT to look like a reward.

The reward we believers are striving for, through work of faith, is "A CROWN THAT LASTS FOREVER".

The FREE GIFT of God is eternal life, which you can never merit, which grants you access to the kingdom. If you like STRIVE by works of righteousness, you can NEVER EARN it, that's why God was NOT foolish to make it a FREE GIFT.

Rom 6:23;"For the wages of sin is death(which jesus has paid for, by taking the punishment of our eternal sins which gives us eternal salvation- heb 5:9), but the FREE GIFT OF GOD IS ETERNAL LIFE in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Gift of eternal life is by grace(faith), but a PRIZE is what you EARN/MERIT by your WORKS OF FAITH. Works of faith is different from works of righteousness. Works of righteousness is anything you do, with the MOTIVE of maintaining and appearing righteous before God. But, works of faith, is NOT what you do to look righteous, because you are ALREADY righteous by your faith(believing) in christ, rather they are works you perform OUT OF FAITH you have in christ. And that is not calling for sinless perfection by works of righteousness. They are works performed by the PERSUASION you have in the faith of christ. And the real work paul was roughly subjecting his body to, was the work of PREACHING the gospel.

He was not preaching the gospel as a means of looking righteous before God, he was preaching the gospel OUT OF THE FAITH and persuasion he has in christ's ability to save lives.

Now, for you to BE in the race(saved) AT FIRST, you must have eternal life which comes through your faith in christ. For you to WIN the race you have to LABOUR by doing all WORKS you are destined to do by your faith in christ. And even when you fall, you may be disqualified from getting your REWARD(crown) but your gift(eternal life) CAN NEVER be taken away from you.

To understand what paul was saying better, let me also use a like passage to explain more.

1cor 3:14-15;"If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a REWARD(crown of life).
15 If it is burned up, the builder will SUFFER loss but YET WILL BE SAVED— even though only as one escaping through the flames."

Paul said here that whosoever that survives will receive a REWARD. And according to the 1cor 9:24-27, the reward there is NOT eternal life(gift of God) but a CROWN that lasts forever.

And to show you that the person is still saved even when he loses; paul says in the above verse 15, that the person will suffer loss.

The word "SUFFER LOSS" in the context has been misinterpreted by many anti-grace preachers. The word "suffer loss" in the context means, suffering loss of HIS REWARD(crown)! And not suffering loss of the FREE GIFT of God that was given on the basis of FAITH.

And to prove that the person will be saved from damnation, though he is suffering loss of the reward; paul said;"....but YET WILL BE SAVED..."

So in 1cor 9:27; paul was NOT saying that he will be cast away from getting into heaven(gift of eternal life) rather he was saying that he may be cast away(disqualified) for getting his reward.

5. 1tim 4:1-2;"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith(believing) and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come through HYPOCRITICAL LAIRS, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.

The above is what is mostly seen in pastors who preach works of sinless perfection and anti-grace preachers. Making people to abandon their BELIEVING, which is in christ and follow doctrines of demons. Any gospel you hear, which doesn't make any relevance to the finished work of christ, is a DOCTRINE OF DEMONS. And the most widely spread doctrine of demons is the heretic of sinless perfection by works = eternal life. How does that make relevance of the sacrifice of christ.

And finally, verse 2 says that such teachings comes through HYPOCRITICAL LAIRS. Imagine a pastor telling you, that he is now sinless perfect by his works of righteousness, or that if you don't pay tithe then you can never go to heaven, while the preacher is having million and billions in his account. Is that not a sign of hypocrisy?


Stay in grace alone!

Peritus:
1. How do you reconcile grace with Matt.5:21-48, where Christ made drastic changes on the old law (Exodus 20), thereby establishing new laws which though of the spirit center on good work?
2. What becomes of one who breaks those Christ's commandments in Matt.5 and the New commandment of love in Jn 13:34, but believes in grace? In other words, one who do not love his neighbours nor enemies, but claims grace. Reconcile it with 1Jn 4:8 that says that if one has no love, he know not God, for God is love.
3. Do you pay tithe?
4. James 2:17, faith without good work is dead being alone. vs 24 you see then, how that by work man is justified not by faith only. These verses suggest that though we are made perfect by grace through faith, but faith cannot stand alone without good work.
5. Jude vs 4 says that some men have slipped into our midst who pervert the teachings of grace to excuse their lasciviousness.

5. Let's look into what Jude said.

Jude 1:4;"Some people have slipped in among you
unnoticed. Not long ago they were CONDEMNED in
writing for the following reason: They are people to
WHOM GOD MEANS NOTHING. They use God's
kindness as an excuse for sexual freedom and
DENY our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ."

Let's study the verse;

1. He said;".....they were condemned....."

Why were they condemned? Because they were unbelievers; people who DON'T BELIEVE in the son of God.

John 3:18;"18 He that BELIEVETH on him is NOT CONDEMNED: but he that BELIEVETH NOT is CONDEMNED ALREADY, BECAUSE he hath NO BELIEVED in the name of the only BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD."

2. He said;"....they were people who GOD means NOTHING...."

That means they were more like the atheists, who don't believe in God.


3. "...They use God's kindness as an excuse for sexual freedom and DENY our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ."

The biblical greek meaning of Kindness is grace, as a gift or blessing brought to man by Jesus Christ(God).

NOTE: These false teachers he was talking about, does not believe in Jesus, think that God does not exist(making God nothing), and went on to DENY that Jesus is not lord.

4. He said;".....They use God's kindness as an excuse for sexual freedom....."


Now, Jude was not talking about preachers of grace, not at all!

Because there is NO difference between what genuine grace preachers and what paul preached.

God's grace is not a license to sin, rather a license to receive the gift of NO condemnation without the deed of the law.

However, if he was talking about grace preachers like paul who preach against keeping of the law, righteousness by faith, eternal salvation, which is really BIBLICALLY true; he wouldn't have said that the people he was talking about were condemned already, that we don't believe in God(atheism) and that they deny Jesus. NOT AT ALL!


The mistake people make with that verse is that they don't put into consideration, the whole context of
the verse. And they will only end up understanding ONLY the verse that says;".....They use God's kindness as an excuse for sexual freedom....." Which misinterprets gospel preachers because we don't make God's grace a sexual freedom.


Let's go through questions;

1. How can these people who deny God, use his kindness an excuse?

If they are using it consciously, then it means that they have the belief that there is God, but when they do it ignorantly they deny God, though they are under his kindness.

Now, you have to know that God shows kindness both to the believer and unbelievers. People who deny God are IGNORANT of this truth, that's why they pervert it IGNORANTLY by living a life of sexual freedom.

So jude was talking about false teachers, who he said, don't believe in God and deny Jesus and are deceiving people in church.

Izecson3D:
After Jesus baptism God said "This is my SON my beloved ." Can a son be the father too?

He was son because he was putting on flesh.

He was God because of his divinity.

Isa 9:6;"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is
given(Jesus): and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, THE MIGHTY GOD, The EVERLASTING FATHER, The Prince of Peace."

So Jesus is NOT a junior God, he is THE MIGHTY GOD, EVERLASTING FATHER. But, as the human he was he is referred as son of God, the same way we believers are called the sons and daughters of God.

Image123:
Act 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

Some christians were getting it wrong as regards circumcision to be saved, the Holy Ghost corrected them. Same with Peter and Barnabas who through Paul were corrected by the Holy Ghost for dissimulation.

This man sef!


Was that verse talking about, holyghost convicting us of our sins?

Man, wake up and provide a biblical proof!

Rilwayne001:
even fools don't take you serious again

YOU ARE THE MOST MISERABLE FOOL I HAVE EVER SEEN!!!!!!!!

Splinz:
Thank you! And now, did you say the Law has been abolished? If yes, which of the law, the one that actually defined sin or some other law? As usual, please provide your answers strictly scripturally based.

1. Yes of course, it was abolished together with sin.
There is no more sin and law!

EP 2:14-16. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of
partition between us;
15. Having ABOLISHED IN HIS FLESH THE ENMITY(sin), even
the law of COMMANDMENTS(10) contained in ORDINANCES(630+); for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16. And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, HAVING SLAIN(abolished) THE ENMITY(sin) thereby:

2 COR 3:7-14. But if the ministration of death,
written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
11. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
13. And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face,
that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is ABOLISHED:
14. But their minds were blinded: for until this day
remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

COL 2:14. BLOTTING OUT the handwriting of ORDINANCE(law) that was against us, which was contrary to us, and TOOK IT OUT OF THE WAY, NAILING(abolishing) IT TO HIS CROSS.;

RO 10: 4. For Christ is the END of the law for
righteousness to every one that BELIEVETH.

RO 7: 6. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

HEB 7:18 For there is verily a DISANNULLING of the
commandment going before for the weakness and
unprofitableness thereof.

Romans 4:15 KJV
15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where NO LAW is, there is NO TRANSGRESSION.

We can see from the Scriptures above, the Law has
been TERMINATED. Consequently, there is no more
SIN(transgression).

Romans 5:13 KJV
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is
not imputed when there is no law.

Since the Law has been terminated, sin is NOT
imputed anymore. It is under the blood of Jesus.

Romans 7:8 KJV
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment,
wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For
without the law sin was dead.

Since the Law has been TERMINATED, sin is now dead. There you have it: there is no transgression, sin is no longer imputed and sin is dead.



If we transgress those laws, it is sin but it is not imputed on us. And it happens everyday of our life,if we can go and check ourselves with the old law.

2. In the book of 1john, john talked about the law and commandment. But he NEVER said that the commandments are the one that was abolished. See the commandment of the believers he was talking about.

1john 3:23;"His COMMANDMENTS are that we should BELIEVE(faith alone) in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and love one another—as we used to hear him say in person.

His ONLY commandments is to BELIEVE in Jesus and love one another. His new commandment is not the same with the OT laws. OT commandment are based on works of right living, but the NT commandment is based on FAITH alone.


When he went further to say, "love one another" he was NOT talking about sinlessness. Among the grace believers, there is always an AMAZING love in our midst, that many law abiding believers can never have. Love is something normal to us, but does it mean that we are now perfect in love? NEVER!

At times, things that can hinder us from loving can occur, as the human beings we are. In that case, though it is sin, we are not condemned because it has been abolished on his flesh at the cross.

chiefolododo:
How many wrap of weeds did the man smoke?

This is just my first thought!

I just wonder how some people think!

HaroldFinch:
1. Boko haram killed and displaced more muslims than christians.....

2. There is no connection between the introduction of shariah in the North and the plight of christians.

3. The report is flawed with inaccurate data and more bias against islam. if its skewed to your favour, you can all laugh. If christians can believe the content of the bible (new testament) despite its inconsistencies, they can believe anything. I am not surprised.

4. How many masjids (mosques) were attacked?

Please, can you quietly point out any inconsistency in the NT, if you don't want to look like a fool.

HaroldFinch:
1. Boko haram killed and displaced more muslims than christians.....

2. There is no connection between the introduction of shariah in the North and the plight of christians.

3. The report is flawed with inaccurate data and more bias against islam. if its skewed to your favour, you can all laugh. If christians can believe the content of the bible (new testament) despite its inconsistencies, they can believe anything. I am not surprised.

4. How many masjids (mosques) were attacked?

Please, can you quietly point out any inconsistency in the NT?

ValentineMary:
Is that another way of saying my bible got it wrong but I don't want to say it?

.

Image123:
Are you Joshthefirst? The Holy Spirit will tell us if we are doing wrong. Why should He tell sinners and not tell us? The Holy Spirit does not condemn sinners BTW. He reproves.

Show a single biblical proof

Gombs:
The Teachings of Jesus

By the time of Jesus, the great moral principles God had given to Moses in the Ten Commandments had been turned into hundreds of ceremonial rules. People thought they were living holy lives if they just obeyed all those rules. But Jesus disagreed. He said people found enough "loopholes" to obey all the rules and still live wicked and greedy lives (Matthew 23:23-28).

Jesus made one statement about the Law that often causes confusion:

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. (NIV, Matthew 5:17–18)

Christians have struggled to understand exactly what Jesus meant. At first reading, this seems to say that all the Old Testament rules and rituals must still be observed. But Jesus and His disciples did not observe many of those rules and rituals, so it could not mean that.

It is frequently pointed out that the term "the Law" could have many different meanings at the time of Jesus:

The ceremonial laws including "clean" and "unclean" lists, sacrifices, dietary restrictions, ritual washings, etc.
The civil law regulating social behavior and specifying crimes, punishments and other rules
The moral and ethical laws, such as the Ten CommandmentsThe Pentateuch (the first 5 books of the Bible)
The scribal law - the 600+ rules formulated by the scribes that everyone was expected to obey
The Scripture as a whole

[size=16pt] Jesus did not abolish the moral and ethical laws that had been in effect from the time of Moses. [/size] He affirmed and expanded upon those principles, but He said obedience must be from the heart (attitudes and intentions) rather than just technical observance of the letter of the law (Matthew 5:21-22, 27-28, 31-32, 33-34, 38-42, 43-44, etc.).

However, Jesus and His disciples did not observe the strict scribal rules against doing any work on the Sabbath (Matthew 12:1-14,Mark 2:23-28, 3:1-6, Luke 6:1-11, 13:10-17, 14:1-6, John 5:1-18). Neither did they perform the ritual hand washings before eating (Matthew 15:1-2). In contrast to the dietary rules of the Law, Jesus said no food can defile a person; it is bad attitudes and actions that can make a person unholy (Matthew 15:1-20, Mark 7:1-23).

Jesus frequently criticized the scribal laws (Matthew 23:23, Mark 7:11-13) and some aspects of the civil law (John 8:3-5, 10-11). [size=16pt] Therefore, Jesus was specifically teaching that the moral and ethical laws in the Scripture would endure until the end of time. [/size]

That would be consistent with His actions and other teachings. Through His teachings and actions, Jesus revealed the true meaning and intent of the Law.It is also pointed out that Jesus, Himself, is the fulfillment of the Law (Matthew 26:28, Mark 10:45, Luke 16:16, John 1:16, Acts 10:28,13:39, Romans 10:4)  The sacrifice of Jesus on the cross ended forever the need for animal sacrifices and other aspects of the ceremonial law.

@joagbaje, yeah, ethics and moral laws are principles of God, they are not abolished, and like u rightly pointed out, conscience and other yardsticks folks wanna use to justify their acts would ALWAYS end in error, the law is th e foundation of right and wrong. Folks esp anti tithers say the law is completely abolished, just to nullify tithing, but the fail to see that when Paul asked Timothy to study, it was actually the law of Moses, ethics and morals, not ceremonial cleasing or scribal law etc. They say the law is completely abolished, but they don't have sexx with their siblings or infants, just because "conscience" is at work, forgetting that terrorist who bomb up pple have the their own form of conscience, which to them is right... some folks who never had any form of upbringing thinks it is right to kill who ever pisses them off, that is his conscience...what then? It all ends in error without the foundation in the law....the laws of the western world were crafted outta tye Bible (laws of moses)...be it death penalty, laws against rape, inbreeding, murder, robbery etc. How then do we reconcil the fact that the law is completely abolished with the fact that its moral and ethical stance arenvery much operational today and acceptable to God?

And as u rightly pointed out again, the only issue with the law, the only problem with is was that it cannot bring justification for anybody... hewbrews 7:11 and 19, they said, the Law never made anything perfect, that's why Jesus had to come, to get us that perfection. No wonder he said he didn't come to abolish the law.

The fact is that we are NO LONGER under the law, simply because it made nothing perfect, not because it is not Good (paul said in rom7v7 that the law is not sinful, in other words, the law of God is not identical to sin)

I look forward to a wonderful session on this topic!

For the case of the law, and what Jesus meant in that chapter; it has been settled in the link below.
https://www.nairaland.com/3077636/grace-preacher-answer-all-questions#45276306

But, if you are not still satisfied with the answer provided, you are welcomed to ask more question UNTIL you are satisfied. Thank you.

Splinz:
Thanks, you're right in a sense. But, I can't accept your definition because it has fall short of God's definition. Remember I said, "answer it scripturally, and do not add or omit". Thanks all the same.

1john 3:4" Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

Gombs:
It's a form of writing, and the writer meant that the earth stood still for Joshua to finish up the war at the time, so that it would not be evening and them enemies flee.

Please, don't argue with these atheists, they will derail the thread.

Let's focus on grace gospel.

Stay in grace!

ValentineMary:
Okay let me get it straight, God ment to say d Earth stood still but he could not tell d difference between the earth and d sun If he was speaking figuratively, why not he just speak plainly to man. If I come today and say "My house is in d sea" when what I ment is that my house is on d ground floor, how do I expect my audience to know d interpretation

Accept it, the bible is d work of some deranged primitive Jews

Yea, thank you.

You can leave the thread.