₦airaland Forum

SIRTee15:
Really Paul is not the problem anymore but the Nicene creed.
What about Jesus that proclaimed his disciples should baptize in the name of the Father, Son and holy spirit.

If u are honest with yourself, u would admit that verse is definitely a Trinitarian formula.

As regards Nicene creed that u are now blaming.
Let's see what it says about the only One God.

We believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

So the so called heretic Nicene creed u guys love to blame proclaim The Father as the only One God.

So who next are u going to blame, Pentecostal or Martin Luther?
U people are not ready to face the truth

Here is the thing.
I used to argue Jesus is not God using the new testament, but now I have come to the realisation you can not make a valid argument that Jesus is not God with the new testament. it is obvious Paul, and all 4 writers of the canonical gospels believed Jesus is a god that has been pre-existing but they believed he is a different God to God the father and more like a little God compare to God the father and Paul and all the canonical gospels writers believed Jesus deserves to the worshipped along side the father.

With Jesus now being a 2nd God there is clash in theology with Judaism on which Christianity is supposed to be built. and I believe there should not be a clash on something as fundamental as who God is, and who is not God. We can see from the theme of the tanakh that there is only one God, the God of all the prophets in the old testament always telling us He alone is God, there is no one else beside him.

With all these, the question now is can I even trust Paul and all the writers of the canonical gospels to begin with, can I trust they gave us the real Jesus, I have come to the conclusion that I can't trust them and no one should.

Paul: why I can't trust Paul.
He was not a disciple of Jesus Christ to begin with, he only claimed to have met Jesus in a vision. Reading Paul's letters you can tell he was in constant serious conflict with the disciples, he called their gospel a no gospel at all and I believed they would have said the same about the gospel he claimed to have received from Christ and there should not have been a serious conflict if the canonical gospels truly represent the beliefs of the apostles because the canonical gospels is greatly in line with Pauls teachings.

Mark: why I can't trust mark
On a closer look at marks gospel, we can see who ever wrote mark had been exposed to Paul's teachings he used similar languages to Paul, Jesus nullifying the mosaic law(declaring all food clean); Mark represented the apostles/Mary in bad light they lack faith and they all just don't understand anything Jesus was saying or anything about him, we have Jesus calling Peter Satan, James that later became the head of Jerusalem church as an unbeliever, Gentiles responding best to his teachings in Decapolis and Tyre.

Mathew and Luke: why I can't trust them
On a closer look, you can see what they were doing with Marks gospel, trying to mitigate the bad representation of the apostles, in Mathew we see Jesus telling the apostles not to go to the gentiles.....

John: why I can't trust John
John is just John, I think for anyone to even trust Johns gospel it's going to be on faith ground.
Which now begs the question: are these guys even writing history or just agendas?

How can we now know what Jesus did say and did not say, we have to go back to the disciples, unfortunately we just can't lay our hands on anything that is genuinely from them and it is not out of the fact that they did not write anything, we see Papias describing a gospel written by Matthew that is different from Matthew we ended up with, sadly somehow their writings did not see the light of the day.

So everything still fall on Paul and yeah Paul is the problem. He laid the faulty foundation for you Trinitarians.

BlackfireX:
All the claims of the Quran....Allah...Muhammad are found out to be lies upon lies

Ok
Share some of those claims that you found out to be lies

BlackfireX:
That prompt the rejection of it

Name one claim in the Quran that isn't a lie

Are u saying the book is all lies?

Because the last I checked, the book is beyond what any man past, present and future can pull off.

BlackfireX:
Should I explain more

Pls do.

SIRTee15:
How do u know we have Nada, how do u know the letters we have are not authentic?

Of course, the scholars told u, not the Quran or any thing else.
But when the same scholars scrutinise the letters deemed authentic, and conclude the believe in atonement thru death of Jesus Christ came from the original disciples of Jesus, then scholars can no longer be trusted.
U see say u Muslims get serious problem.


Pls be a honest Muslim and learn to read the letters of Paul properly.
Yes, Paul said the gospel he preach came from Christ himself and not from any human authority.
But he also said in the same letter of Galatians that he presented the gospel he preach b4 the apostles for scrutiny and approval.
James, Peter and John scrutinised the gospel preached by Paul, approved and endorsed it, then told Paul to go ahead and continue preaching the gospel to the Gentiles.


Galatians 2
2 I went in response to a revelation and, meeting privately with those esteemed as leaders, I presented to them the gospel that I preach among the Gentiles. I wanted to be sure I was not running and had not been running my race in vain......
7 On the contrary, they recognized that I had been entrusted with the task of preaching the gospel to the uncircumcised.....
9 James, Cephas and John, those esteemed as pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me.
They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the circumcised.

The disciples of Christ in Jerusalem approved the gospel of Paul. That's the truth u guys wants to ignore.



Pls bring evidence the ebionites are linked to the early disciples. Bring evidence the ebionites were among the early disciples of the church in Jerusalem in the early first century.

As far as we know, there's no first century source that mentioned ebionites as a sect in the early church. None.
If u can bring evidence that the ebionites were mentioned as being part of the early Church headed by James, that will be a great game changer.

The argument here is what is the believe of the church in the early 1st century in Jerusalem. What is the significance of the death of Jesus to the church headed by James the Just.



Oh God, u have come again.
The question is Isaiah 53 about a suffering Messiah?
Yes or No.
Forget about Jesus and Isaiah 53. It's not relevant here.
Is Isaiah 53 a prophecy about a Messiah coming to suffer and die for the redemption of his people?

And this psalm 91 u yapping about isn't considered messianic by any ancient Jewish or early Christian tradition.
Why do u consider Palam 91 messianic prophecy? Why do u think it's about Jesus? Is it because Jesus quoted a verse from it.
If that's the case, then u should consider Palam 110 and Isaiah 42 prophecy about Jesus because Jesus quoted from those chapters. I think that's only fair.



Oda, ko buru. If u cannot trust the owners of the Torah to understand their own book properly.....
Then tell us, who is Isaiah 53 talking abou?

And regarding Isaiah 53. 10b, your problem is thinking the original hebrew word used for offspring/seed which is zera means literal biological children.
No the word zera can be used metaphorical, spiritual esp in prophetic literature.
See my attached post for better understanding...

Then read Mathew 13.1-10 for the offspring/seeds of the Messiah.

John 1
He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—




Really Paul is not the problem anymore but the Nicene creed.
What about Jesus that proclaimed his disciples should baptize in the name of the Father, Son and holy spirit.

If u are honest with yourself, u would admit that verse is definitely a Trinitarian formula.

As regards Nicene creed that u are now blaming.
Let's see what it says about the only One God.

We believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

So the so called heretic Nicene creed u guys love to blame proclaim The Father as the only One God.

So who next are u going to blame, Pentecostal or Martin Luther?
U people are not ready to face the truth



Interesting. So the Father is sharing his glory with an Angel.
I thought God shares his glory with no one.
So this Angel is so special that the Father gave him his name, allowed him to be worshipped and be called God Almighty.
Mr Man, that's 2 Gods u are alluding to in case u don' t know. That makes u a polytheist.

If u believe in the existence of an Angel in heaven separate from the Father but can be called God Almighty in any shape or form or as a mediator, that makes u a polytheist.
You believe in 2 beings (2 existence) who are Gods.

HEAR O ISRAEL YHWH YOUR GOD IS ONE.

The problem is if I bring how the ancient Jews understand this divine agent called Angel of the Lord, u will say bla blah bla, I now live in post old testament era.

So do the work yourself.

Why did Hagar said she has seen God when she encountered the Angel of the LORD.
Hagar saw and spoke to the Angel of the LORD NOT the Father.
But after the encounter, she rejoiced and announced she has seen the ever living God called YHWH.

Why did Hagar proclaim she saw God Almighty when she never saw the Father.

Genesis 16
7 The angel of the Lord found Hagar near a spring in the desert; it was the spring that is beside the road to Shur......

13 She gave this name to YHWH who spoke to her: “You are the God who sees me,” for she said, “I have now seen the Ever Living One who sees me. ” 14 That is why the well was called Beer Lahai Roi; it is still there.

How do I know you guys have nothing? It's obvious na, those guys that wrote the canonical gospels wr not writing history, it's just pure agenda and doctrines. And I don't just follow whatever scholars say like a dummy, I look at whatever evidence they r pointing at to reach their conclusions. There is no evidence to conclude we know what the Disciples believed, the only thing we can conclude on is that their gospel is different from Paul's gospel.

No bro, the Qur'an tells me the Christian forget a portion of what was revealed to them which is in line with the scholarship. we are saying some teachings of Jesus Christ can still be found in the gospels and some teachings are lost like the hypothetical Q gospel, Matthew gospel described by Papias most likely the same Matthew used by the Ebionites.

Paul did not present shit to the apostles, Paul was just outrightly lying that he was given one hand of fellowship. He was supposed to received a letter of recommendation from the Jerusalem church but it's obvious your guy no get any letter of recommendation.
He was exposed in Corinth when he couldn't provide letter of recommendation, he just went on a tirade and self appraisal on how he worked harder, how he was ship wrecked... bla blah blah. Maybe your guy don lost the letter by the time he got to Corinth or it had been revoked because of his false teachings.

All those your analysis about zera/seeds could have helped your case if the prophecy did not say something about prolonging his days.


No bro, you need to stop reading everything with your trinitarian lens. It's obvious the Angel of the lord is a messenger of God
Exodus 23 say something about God sending the same angel to lead the Israelites.
So I don't know in what world a messenger and the sender become the same.

BlackfireX:
Define author?


Elucidate us

An originator of a work

We Muslims believe the originator of the Qur'an is God Almighty himself.

We believe the Qur'an is direct speech of God send to Prophet Muhammad via Angel Gabriel.

But with your write-up, it seems you disagree with that.

SIRTee15:
Ha my friend, longest time.

Don't mind me jare, I didn't know that doffman of a guy is a troll.
I gave him evidence that Paul wasn't the first person to say Jesus Christ died for our sins, but that statement came from the Jesus Christ apostles themselves.

James the brother of Jesus, Peter, John and other apostles were the first to go about preaching Jesus died for our sins even b4 Paul converted.

The clown blatantly rejected it. He called the disciples of Jesus fake and disagreed with historians without producing any contra evidence.

I know u will do better, what evidence do u have to counter the evidence brought forth by historical bible scholars that the source of believe in the death of Jesus Christ for atonement couldn't have been from his disciples.

Regarding Isaiah 53, it's a dead case already. I ha e brought tons of evidence to prove Isaiah 53 is about The suffering Messiah.
U and your confused naija Jewish friend brought none. U kept shouting Isaiah 53 is not about Jesus.
That's not my argument. My argument is clear- is Isaiah 53 about a suffering Messiah who will atone for the sins of his people.
What do pre Christian Judaism believe about Isaiah 53, how did the 2nd temple Jews understand Isaiah 53. That's my question.

I told u b4 that 2nd temple Judaism believe in 2 Messiah. Kingly and priestly (suffering) messiah.
Read about Messiah Ben Joseph and learn the truth my friend.

Finally your fried has no idea how the word God Almighty is used in the bible including old testament. So he's confused about Trinity.
Let's see if u can do better....

This is what Paul, the so called founder of Christianity has to say.
But for us, There's One God, the Father,
by whom all things were created,
and for whom we live.
1 Corinthian 8.6a

So Paul the guy u Muslims love to hate is affirming the Shema. There's only One God who is the Father.

And since we follow Paul as u guys claim, them it makes sense for me to also say There's only One God who is the Father.

Why then is the old testament calling The Angel of LORD Almighty God.
Why is another Person (The Angel of the LORD) called God Almighty in the old testament.

The Angel of the LORD appeared to Abraham, Jacob and Moses, and he's called God Almighty and YHWH.

I want a clear explanation as to why there's another God Almighty in the old testament apart from the Father.

Pls I take God beg u, don't come with the excuse the bible in corrupt argument. Pls, if u don't know be honest enough to say I dont know.

Your problem is you believe we have writings from the original disciples of Jesus Christ but we have nada, even the scholars u r trying very hard to cling on agree with that; Just forged documents here and there and it's something anyone with viable brain cells can agree on with the way the synoptic gospels copied each other and John with its high Christology and all those "very important" I am statement that the earlier gospel writers missed miraculously.

The only genuine documents we have are letters of Paul, even the letters of Paul not all are genuine.
And from the genuine letters we can see how Paul is always speaking ills of the original disciples, how he did not get his gospel from them, how what they are mean nothing to him, he even threw jab at them and the gospel they were preaching in Galatians 1:8. So Historically, we don't really know what they believed, but what we can tell from Paul's letter is that their gospel is different from the gospel of Paul.
And again the Ebionites that scholar linked heavily with the original disciples, we know how their beliefs digress heavily from Pauls, they even called him fake and rejected his cooked up letters.

For Isaiah 53, you and I both know Jesus did not fulfill this part of the prophecy
"He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days."
And Isaiah 53 contradicts Psalm 91 a known prophecy about Jesus.
Prophecy is not something you force to fit, everything must fit with ease perfectly. If it didn't dey, it didn't dey.
And don't come here with that your 2nd temple Judaism bla bla bla. I'm living post the Messiah and I have active brain cells.

As bad as Paul was, I don't even believe the guy was trinitarian with his statement in 1 cor 11:3 at least not a trinitarian as defined by the Nicene creed but he definitely laid the faulty foundation for you Trinitarians.
With Jesus a member of the supposed trinity identifying father as the only true God I don't think you trinitarians should be quoting the shema it is just oxymoron.

The Angel of the lord is an angel that mediates and speaks on behalf of God. What is funny is non of the new testament writers equate the angel of the lord with Jesus.

SIRTee15:
u better avoid me here otherwise I will destroy the little faith u have in your prophet.
ask of me from your fellow Muslims here, I shatter false believes. That's my specialty.
not only muslims but atheist and some confused nigerian jews as well.

You Christians just love living in ur bubbles, a paulitheist want to destroy someone faith in Islam.

I can see you are still pushing your Isaiah 53 agenda
Something we don over burst for here.

Mr specialist this ur delulu no too much like this?

BlackfireX:
Who wrote the Quran?


Who wrote the Quran?

Do we have one Quran?or many Quran?


Lies of many years

Thank God for Internet



Cc: deepspirituals

Who do you think authored the Qur'an

Educate us.

Best team in the world is trailing

Valnony:
2 nil now.I’m a united fan but I want arsenal to win EPL this season

Who for win am before?

MaxInDHouse:
Mr Muslim your story doesn't add up if you don't believe in the Bible as a whole so keep your lies to yourself.

Meanwhile what God intended to do with inspired writings is found in the Bible book of Isaiah 2:2-4 & Micah 4:1-3 which no religion except true Christians are fulfilling throughout the world today!🙂

Ok, I don hear you.

It was all good between Paul and the Apostles. It was just one happy big fellowship of Christ.

Are u happy now?

MaxInDHouse:
It's only among Christendom that you will find anyone against the letters written by Paul.

This is what Peter one of the twelve Apostles wrote concerning Paul:

Furthermore, consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you according to the wisdom given him. 2Peter 3:15

So it's confused Christendom and Muslims like you that's against God's inspired words written not true Christians!🙂

Guy if you don't know that 2peters authorship and authenticity was seriously doubted then I'm sorry for you.

Early church fathers like Eusebius and Origen doubted 2nd peters and there are good reasons to.

How it eventually made it into the canon sef nobody knows, because it almost did not make it.

If you want to know what was going on in early Christianity, read letters of Paul and read it carefully.

Galatians 1:8 was Paul throwing Jabs at the Apostles.

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus never wrote any book so it's what his disciples wrote that you and i are reading therefore if the story says Jesus later chose one man to serve as apostle to the nations {Act 9:15} you either believe it as part of the story or reject everything all together.
You can't reject some parts because it involves someone who outrightly made a statement that exposed Muhammad as fake:

However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to you as good news something beyond the good news we declared to you, let him be accursed. Galatians 1:8

The above is what makes Muslims hate Paul with passion because that statement finished Muhammad who came to preach something totally different from the Apostles!🙂

Galatians 1:8 was against the original apostles, if you read Paul letters carefully you will figure.

So it's not only Muslims that see Paul as fake, the apostles Jesus hand picked himself did too, you guys are just not paying attention.

Why have we not score against Lesotho

I don't understand why they keep inviting these foreign base players if they can't get the job done against ordinary Lesotho.

They should just probably end this game now, cause wetin dem go fit do for world cup, if them dey struggle to beat Lesotho.

Brighton just brighten up my day.

What a weekend of hate watch.

Still very much available and slightly negotiable.

Ok!! This is getting interesting.
This season is going to be a long one.

I'm loving it already. E gbewa!

Pre season champion

Ordinary crystal palace o

Pre season champion still never score.

Chelsea 0 - 1 Crystal palace.

with all Una noice.

Let's go Palace

Gabrielshow24:
I believe in Trinity!
If you need exemplifications then I will gladly give you.

For now, I believe there are three beings that fit the epistemological and ontological definition of the concept called "God". This three agree in unison and are one. Thus, we have one God but three distinct beings. In identity, they are different while in essence they are one!

All these sound like let's eat our cake and have it!
Is there hierarchy in this trinity?

This is how I define God
A self sufficient being that does not depend on anything or anyone but all depend on him.

How do you define God?

What was the fate of Jesus and the other member of trinity when Jesus a member was making the statement of John 17:3?
Are they also true Gods or are they not?

Gabrielshow24:
Does my write-up convey such message? 🤨

Seems you believe

-Jesus is God in some way
-The Father is God
-Jesus a God also have a God which is the father
And They both deserve to be worshipped

Or am I mistaken?

.

Gabrielshow24:
See intellectually dishonesty, na you make claim against trinity, you no define wetin you make claim about. You dey mandate your opposition to define it. 😂

Image123 and fxmasters, you are both wasting your time. That guy is impervious to reason, scripture and logic! You should have seen that from the get go. To him, proving Jesus Christ has a God negates trinity 😂. That's why we have concluded in other threads that he is only attacking modalists or sabellians!

Likewise remember this parable:
"The child that will know book, it's from infancy that we know".

Irrespective, more grease to the elbow for your patience 🤨. God bless you both.

Just a honest question

Are u a polytheist?

HP Probook 4440s
Corei5
4g/500gb
2.5ghz processor
Windows 10
Dead Battery
Comes with Original charger
65k (slightly negotiable)
Location: Abeokuta
WhatsApp 07036840516

merits:
Salaam alaikum can someone please interprete the meaning?

Interpret what exactly??

U need to go treat malaria..

HP Probook 4440s
Corei5
4g/500gb
2.5ghz processor
Windows 10
Dead Battery
Comes with Original charger
65k
Location: Abeokuta
WhatsApp 07036840516

HP Probook 4440s
Corei5
4g/500gb
2.5ghz processor
Windows 10
Dead Battery
Comes with Original charger
65k
Location: Abeokuta
WhatsApp 07036840516

We need to be playing PSV everyday.
COYG!!!

IMEI:
This isn't worth responding to

people that deliberately choose to be ignorant.

Kobojunkie:
⚈He was trying to repent, or he repented right before taking his last breath? I mean, why would a person make such a statement right before death if he did not in fact mean it?
⚈Also, does repenting just as one is about to die not qualify one to be considered a Muslim? Are deathbed confessions/decisions not considered valid in Islam?

You are a joke!

He was trying to repent when he was already facing death after he's been shown signs after signs. That kind of repentance is invalid.