₦airaland Forum

Kukutente23:
It is not similar. Kings in Europe who normalised the use of royal We believed they were an embodiment of the state and thus symbol of sovereignity. That is why Louis XIV famously said "L'etat moi" meaning "I am the state". It is different from Yoruba who use it to refer to respect based on age.
Majestic plural does not exist AT ALL in Arabic or Semitic languages. It is easy to see in that in the Bible for example, Over twenty Kings were recorded and none ever used "We" to refer to himself. Same with Egyptian Kings which is one of the oldest civilisation. No record of royal We in usage there. As Antiislam pointed out, the royal We is mostly used in Europe.
Elohim is plural for God. Eloha is the singular. The usage in the Bible is to differentiate God from other gods especially canaanite gods which are also referred to as Eloha. it is from Eloha that Ilah came out and then Allah. Elohim was just a truncated way of saying Lord of gods or Lord God. So you missed it totally.

Till now, none of you can give an example of royal We usage in pre-Islamic Arabia so you need to give another explanation for Allah's use of We to refer to himself that is based on fact and fidelity. This one no fly

Next!!

So why was Elohim used for Moses in Exodus 7:1?

Kukutente23:
Royal We is different from the Yoruba use of They or plural You for Elders as a symbol of respect. You are simply ignorant. An Elder in Yoruba cannot use the yoruba We to refer to himself in the first person. Royal We implies referring to oneself in the first person plural. The Yoruba use of plural for adults occurs in the 2nd person or third person plural pronouns not the first plural

I am not saying it is the same as Yoruba plural of respect. I said something similar, I was only pointing out how languages can differ.

Majestic plural is not something just peculiar with Arabic, but something in Semitic languages. Why do you think the word Elohim is not translated as Gods?

AntiisIam:
Royal WE was introduced in 12th century I believed you could see that from the link you dropped?

Are you saying quran or allah came into existence after 12th century to have make used of Royal WE?

Why are you slow like this?
But u be Omo Yoruba now

Yoruba language have something similar, we use plural of respect for elders and people that are older than us. Was that introduced in the 12th century?

Just because it was introduced into English or whatever language in the 12th century does that mean that was the first time it's used in human history?

AntiisIam:
Welcome my run away customer, here is the question you and your fellow slaves are avoiding to answer


Quran 10:94

And if thou (Muhammad) art in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto thee, then question those who read the Scripture (that was)....


If Islam is strictly monotheist, who are the WE there?

You are free to insult your dad but mind you, I won't insult you yet so that you won't use that as an escaping route

Just keep regurgitating the same old gabbage, are u that dumb?

U r still asking about the WE in the Qur'an in 2024?

DeepSight:
Plural of royalty or majestic plural.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_we

The guy is a top notch fool. He has been asking the question for ages and he will keep asking the same question till he dies.

AntiisIam:
Here are the daughters of allah, his fellow idols that made up of WE, US, OUR you saw in quran


Your allah wish to have a son

Quran 39:4
If Allah had willed to choose a son, He could have chosen what He would of that which He hath created...

Your islamic deity allah has daughters

Quran 37:153 Muhammad Asad
“He has chosen daughters in preference to sons”

Quran 37:153 Wahiduddin Khan
Has He chosen daughters over sons


AND THE DAUGTHERS ARE:

Quran 53:19-21
Have you then considered Lat and ‘Uzza And another, the third, Manat Are the males for you and for Him the females

I always knew you are very slow but I don't know you are as slow as this.

Is this the brain you are using for your every day activities? or you are only pretending to be dumb?

TenQ:
First, do you admit that
1. The Arabic word "فُرُوجَهُمْ" and term "فَحْجَة" refers to the genitals or private parts of the man and woman respectively ?

Specifically for the woman it is Vulva or Vagina

2. The correct translation of Qur'an 21:91 is
Quran 21:91
And the one who guarded her vulva, so We breathed into it making her and her son a sign for all peoples.

The subject is the VULVA.

She guarded her vulva, so Allah breathe into the Vulva of his spirit.

Stop telling obvious lies.

Same with Quran 66:12

Tell me, what exactly did Mary guard?

I don't even know what fahja "فَحْجَة"mean

You can not translate farjaha as her vulva/vigina because furujahum is exact same word only in plural form. Except if you are going to translate Q33:35 as "men who guard their vulvas/viginas". The best way to translate "فُرُوجَهُمْ/فَرْجَهَا" should be "her private part/their private parts"

And stop being mischievous, you can not choose "it" for "فِيهَا" and "her" for "وَجَعَلْنَـٰهَا and وَٱبْنَهَآ" you are only exposing yourself as the disingenuous person that you are.

TenQ:
Are you tongue tied?

The same demon is in both you and your prophet when they asked him about the spirit. We are still waiting for his answer till date.


I just gave you a challenge, break YOUR two words وَجَعَلْنَـٰهَا and وَٱبْنَهَآ down so that I can humiliate your further

With the breakdown u did, you and your amateur tutor should have realized the mistake you are making if both of you are honest to each other.

The subject of the sentence is "And she who" "وَٱلَّتِىٓ" it only make sense that "فِيهَا" "وَجَعَلْنَـٰهَا" and "وَٱبْنَهَآ" be translated to "and we made her", "into her", "and her son" respectively but you decided to be mischievous and you allow demon to keep fingering your brain.

Guy try have some shame and save yourself of further embarrassment.

you are deaf, dumb, and blind, so you will never return ˹to the Right Path˺

TenQ:
I console you this early morning for your pain in this.

I just gave you a challenge, break YOUR two words وَجَعَلْنَـٰهَا and وَٱبْنَهَآ down so that I can humiliate your further

Must you insist on Falsehood and Lies to keep Islam alive?

I am going to be lenient with you and save you some embarrassment and allow you crawl back into your hole on this one.

Probably this will be the last we will be seeing this your "Jibril blew into Mary Vigina" because I was told you have been asking the question for ages and you probably will keep asking it till you die.

TenQ:
I am on Nairaland to help you open your eyes to the 419 document of Islam through Mohammed (aka Allah) that has been sold to you.


Why do you think your scholars lie so much to preserve Islam?

It is the spirit of deception that Deceives you from the Messiah to hell and it's prison that prevents you from coming out of it.
Thus
1. The thing is that Islam is first a spiritual deception
2. Then it is a spiritual prison


But would you stop to think? Most likely not!
Thus I can only pray for you for mercy!

We both know the religion that was built on lies, forgeries and deception.

Like unknown Matthew and Luke forging the document of an unknown Mark and another unknown John just making up words in his head and putting them in Jesus mouth. Not to talk of the countless numbers of interpolation.

You are the one in a spiritual prison.

TenQ:
Khai!

I have beaten you blue back with evidence in Arabic (thanks to my teachers). I broke it to you like teaching a toddler the language of Arabic.

Even though you have no answer to the Truth, you must say something to help the cause of Allah and Islam taking you to Hell fire.

I challenge you to prove my breakdown of the two words وَجَعَلْنَـٰهَا and وَٱبْنَهَآ YOU presented as wrong!

You yourself should take your breakdown of those two words and put it back in the statement and see if you arrive at your earlier translation, because you just break down "وَجَعَلْنَـٰهَا" as "and we made it".

Go get a refund from your amateur tutor and you should probably get him/her arrested for embarrassing you!

TenQ:
Your Arabic should be superior to what you are doing now.

The Arabic word "وَجَعَلْنَـٰهَا" is "wa ja'alnāhā." which means "And We made it."

It is three words where
"wa" means "and."
"ja'alnā" means "We made."
"hā" means "it."




The word "وَٱبْنَهَآ" is "wa ibnahā." meaning "And her son."

"wa" means[b] "and."[/b]
"ibn" means "son" or "child."
"hā" means "her" ( or "it" but the subject is son or child such tha "it" is not used for humans)

For Mary, the subject was non-human (even if we put all your preferred words of sleeve or chastity or vulva or Farjiha or private part), such that "ha" is "IT"




How much will you pay me for learning all these Arabic from my Arabic teacher?

Why not just concede you made an awful gaffe and stop all this nonsense cover-up you are doing?

Awon dishonest bunch that just want to win argument at all cost.

TenQ:
1. The thing is that Islam is first a spiritual deception
2. Then it is a spiritual prison

Apart from those who benefit from Islam, ALL Muslims emotionally truly want islam to be true even if they have to fabricate a lie to convince themselves

Obo n'gbe Obo gun Ope. Make Una two dey deceive Una self

TenQ:
This is the correct translation below
Quran 21:91
And the one who guarded her vulva, so We breathed into it through Our angel, making her and her son a sign for all peoples.

Are these two wrong interpretations?

1. The Arabic word "فُرُوجَهُمْ" ("furūjuhum" which translates to "their private parts" or "their genitals" in English.
2. The term "فَحْجَة" (fahjaha) in Arabic refers to a woman's private part of the vulva

Meaning that "furūjuhum" and "fahjaha" refers to PRIVATE PARTS. "furūjuhum" is Plural while "fahjaha" is singular FEMALE


The Private part of a Woman is called either VULVA or VAGINA!
This was what your Jibril BLEW into!

Your case is beyond redemption!

You just want to make up whatever you want then debunk it then lie to yourself you are debunking Islam?

Professor why did you translate fi-ha "فِيهَا" to "into it" and decided to translate wajaealna-ha "وَجَعَلْنَـٰهَا" and waibna-ha "وَٱبْنَهَآ" differently?

And also do well to tell us what the correct Arabic word should have been if it is "into her"

TenQ:
Muslims will never stop embarrassing themselves with deep fabrications just to sustain their lies.
In Qur'an 33:35, I guess you didn't check that

The Arabic word "فُرُوجَهُمْ" ("furūjuhum" translates to "their private parts" or "their genitals" in English.

The term "فَحْجَة" (fahjaha) in Arabic refers to a woman's private part of the vulva

Either way, it's not chastity nor garment not sleeves.

Just give me five Arabic sentences using the word fahjaha and translate.




The fact that I quoted your Qur'an translation does not mean that I don't know what it says.

It says we breathe into IT and not we breathe into her.



Chastity is not an IT
Vulva is an IT

In Qur'an 21:91, the word "فِيهَا" "fīhā" translates to "in it" or "into it" in English and not INTO HER



Fabricate something else: I am waiting!

Engaging you is a waste of time!

Professor of Arabic studies are you telling us the correct translation of the verse should have been

so We breathed into IT through Our angel, making IT and ITS son a sign for all peoples.

rather than
so We breathed into her through Our angel, making her and her son a sign for all peoples.

Just stop embarrassing yourself already!


And yes furuja-hum and farja-ha are the same word, furuja-hum is just the plural form since the subject "men" is plural.

So I'm asking again do men now have viginas?

TenQ:
Tell him to give you every synonyms for
1. Sleeve
2. Garments
3. Womb
and see if he would arrive at Farja

Tell Antichristian to give you five Arabic sentences with the word Farjaha
Lets see if anyone will give the meaning as sleeve or garment


Farjiha means only one thing in Arabic: Female Vulva or Vagina


Tafsir Ibn Kathir Quran 66:11-12
(And We breathed into it (private part) through Our Ruh,) meaning, through the angel Jibril. Allah sent the angel Jibril to Maryam, and he came to her in the shape of a man in every respect. Allah commanded him to blow into a gap of her garment and that breath went into her womb through her private part; this is how `Isa was conceived. This is why Allah said here,

(And We breathed into it through Our Ruh, and she testified to the truth of her Lords Kalimat, and His Kutub,) meaning His decree and His legislation.

Tafsir Quran 66.10-12 Maududi - Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi - Tafhim al-Qur'an
That is, without her having any connection with a man, Allah breathed into her womb a Spirit from Himself. (For explanation, see E.N.'s 212, 213 of An-Nisa' and E.N. 89 of Al-Anbiya').

Reference for the two Tafsirs above https://quranx.com/tafsirs/66.12

Lies that Muslims cannot tell doesn't exist yet

Why do you just love embarrassing yourself up and down like this?

The same word was used for men in Qur'an 33:35. Do men now have viginas?

The verse says she guarded her farja and we breath into her...... Without indicating if it is through any opening whatsoever.

The best way to translate farjaha is chastity or private part, and what the verse is telling us is that she was not promiscuous and her conception was indeed miraculous.

Ohyoudidnt:
Qasim, their bible doesn't confirm that the angels ate the food that Abraham served them.

I think genesis 18:8 implies they did.

He then brought some curds and milk and the calf that had been prepared, and set these before them. While they ate, he stood near them under a tree.

4 loses in a row

These are good times, may we see more of it.

SIRTee15:

BECOMING A MAN IS THE SAME THING AS APPEARING AS A MAN.
BOTH DEFINES INCARNATION.

IF I BECOME NICE, DOES THAT MEAN I HAVE CHANGED TO NICE? DOES THAT MEAN MY NATURE IS NOW NICE?

IF I APPEAR DIRTY, IS NOT THE AS I BECAME DIRTY.

IF I BECOME ANGRY, IS IT NOT THE SAME THING AS APPEARING ANGRY.

MY FRIEND JUBRIL BECAME A MAN WHEN HE APPEARED TO MARY.


TenQ, thanks for bringing up that Jubril angle. Muslims are trapped in their own game.

We don't have problem with an angelic being incarnating as a man.

According to our own understanding, Angel incarnating as a man does not mean the angel will drop-by at the nearest restaurant for a hot plate of Amala. Angel incarnating as a man simply means the angel appears outwardly as a man and remain an angel in essence such that the angel does not require food, oxygen etc to function effectively.

For example: the Qur'an narrative of when 3 angels on their way to Sodom and Gomorrah visited Abraham to give glad tidings of Isaac they refused to eat the food given to them whereas they ate the food in the Biblical narrative...

For us angel appearing as a Man and becoming a man is not the same thing.

damiloladuke:
It's the beginning of a new week. Let's do exploit

Do you have Skrill?

I need $29

hotdealz:
How much do you buy skrill?

Do you have Skrill?

I need $29

$29 Skrill needed

COYG!!

let's dunk on their head !!!

Arsenal 3- 1 liverpool

Gabrielshow24:
Jesus not knowing the hour is part of the aspects of his humility taking up a lower form and subjecting himself to his Father and not expressing his full nature; that doesn't mean if he asked from the Father at that moment in Time it won't be given him but he rather have his Father declare it(further showing his humility).

What don't you understand about the Nicene Creed?

The answer to your questions are in the bible!

What do you expect him to say? 🤨That he is greater than his Father.

He paid homage to the Father which gave him all things - it doesn't negate the fact that he has all things

And he said the father is greater because the Father "gave" him all things. Showing a flow

Emphasis on "gave".
From heavenly standards it's better to give than to receive. He that receives his technically spiritually lower than he that gives.

Hence understandably so. He(Jesus) didn't give his Father his authority but rather the Father gave him all Power and Authority!


A better question would have been along the concepts of him being with God before the beginning.

Ok let's assume Jesus Christ did not know the hour out of humility even though it doesn't make any sense. What about the holy spirit?
Jesus Christ said only the Father knows the hour, why does the holy spirit not know? Humility of the holy spirit?

Here is a part of the creed

"We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
    the only Son of God,
    eternally begotten of the Father,
    God from God, Light from Light,
    true God from true God,
    begotten, not made,
    consubstantial to the father."

This creed is telling us Jesus was not made by the father that he is co-eternal, co-true God, with the father.

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. John 17:3

So why was Jesus identifying Father as the only true God and himself a messanger of that true God?

And can there be another true God apart from the Father?

Gabrielshow24:
I fail to see how this is hard to understand!

No bro, I fail to understand how a being that depend on another for his existence can be co-eternal and co-true God with that same being he depends on.

And I thought God should be self sufficient or have you guys redefine God?

Gabrielshow24:
Trinity is being circulated as a hard topic but it's really simple to understand.

I agree with your write up

Really?
This is the first time I'll be seeing someone make a bold claim that trinity is very easy to understand.
Do you know how the doctrine was defined by the nicene-constatinople creed?

Can you reconcile that creed with Jesus a member of that trinity making statements like these

-Holy spirit and Jesus not knowing the hour?
-Father is greater than I?
-Father is the only true God?

Haram Football loading........
Let's force it down the throat of the cityzens

Mancity 0 --1 Arsenal

SIRTee15:
Muhammed slept with the slave girl of his wife Zainab without his wife's permission or even the slave permission.

Can you give any reference for this?

SIRTee15:
If anything, the gospel writers never lied they heard it from God. That's the issue with the Muhammed and his Qur'an.
As far as am concerned I rather prefer someone that copied from contemporary books written close to lifetime of Christ than Muhammed that copied from gospels written 200 yrs after Christ.

Unfortunately, we just don't know the true identities of these writers. You guys just have to take another decision based on faith that the information they have given us is accurate representation of Jesus.

And Matthew and Luke change information from Mark's in whatever way they see fit, and it seems like they were writing theology for their primary audience rather than accurate representation of Jesus life. I'm sure those guys had no idea their gospels will be read alongside their source in the future.

SIRTee15:
How can U claim Muhammed wasn't aware of bible stories when everyone around him knew the stories.
When he started his ministry, the people told him to his face that they are familiar with his recitation stories, they have heard it b4 and are tales of the ancient people of the past. They even told him they could come up with something similar if they want to. All these are in your Qur'an.
Bible stories are not new to the people of ancient Arabia, so how come it's new to Muhammed?

How come everyone knew the bible stories except Muhammed? How come everyone in Arabia peninsula are familiar with bible stories except Muhammed.
Muhammed can't read but he could hear!!!

Where was Muhammed when everyone was hearing about the bible stories?

That's the mystery I want U to help me solve.

Of course the Arabs were not living in isolation, they would definitely have heard names like Moses, Jesus and some other Biblical figures and even familiar with their stories to some extent before the Prophet started his preachings, the fact they were claiming 'these are the stories of the people of the past' mean nothing.

The author of the Qur'an is not claiming these stories are something that are unheard of, infact the author tells us exactly what the Qur'an is doing with previous scriptures.

Q5:48
We have revealed to you ˹O Prophet˺ this Book with the truth, as a confirmation of previous Scriptures and a supreme authority on them......

So we can say what the Qur'an is doing is critical rewriting of the Judeo-Christian traditions by sifting truth from falsehood.

let me give u a background knowledge on the nature of the Qur'an.
The Qur'an was not all revealed at a go as you already know, even some chapters are not revealed at a go, and some verses were not even chronologically revealed. It was revealed like a puzzle book, such that the prophet was constantly telling the companions after receiving revelations this verse is part of this chapter, that verse is part of that chapter for 23 years, yet what we have in our hands is a book of chiastic/ring structure extraodinare. ring structures inside ring structure.

If you are not familiar with chiastic/ring structure, I will implore you to do some light reading on the subject. The structure is also prominent in some old testament books like the Genesis, exodus, Leveticus, numbers and deut.

The ring structure in the Qur'an is too complex for a book that was orally delivered from the prophet to his companions. If prophet Muhammad is a false prophet and the text of the Qur'an was his making such that he was just making it up in his head and putting into consideration the fact that some verses of the Qur'an were answers to questions been asked of the prophet and he was able to come up with the text of the Qur'an with the level of the chiastic/ring structures present in the Qur'an then his IQ would be in the neighborhood 1000.

To think the Prophet is the author of the Qur'an creates more problem that it solves

SIRTee15:
So tell us what contemporary evidence of Muhammed existence do we have? Even your hadiths were written 200 yrs after his death so they can't be called contemporary and their high possiblity of legendary embellishment to make Muhammed what he's not.

There is Biography of the prophet written by Ibn Hisham, and Ibn Hisham made it perfectly clear he used Ibn Ishaq an early source, though Ibn Ishaq work does not survive. But there are other authors that used Ibn Ishaq like al-Tabari.
Ibn Ishaq lived in the 8th century, so his work was in the 8th century, that's within a century of the prophet.

And there are other works that are contemporary of Ibn Ishaq work like the work of Sulaiman Ibn Tarkhan who was a student of Anas Ibn Malik who was a companion of the prophet.

The existence of very early Qur'an manuscripts is also enough as evidence for existence of the prophet.

And no Bukhari is not the earliest compilation of Hadith, cos I know that's what you are referring to by the 200yrs. There is Musnad al-Tayalisi by Abu dawud, there is Muwatta Malik and they predate Bukhari.

SIRTee15:
Calm down, books written late in 2nd century claiming to have been written by James or Thomas cannot be true. These disciples were long dead.
It's just common sense. That makes those gospel book instant apocryphal. The content in the books were unheard of until late 2nd century.

I know it was written late, dated to around 150 but to conclude all the information therein is false and all the information in John gospel is true, another gospel that is believe to have been written a bit late in around 90-110 is a conclusion based on faith rather than logic. and there are even canonised books that have same aspersion of forgeries like 2 peters but they still get the pass mark somehow.

My point is that the fact Qur'an contain information found in gospels that are not cannonised does not necessarily mean Qur'an contain false information about Jesus Christ.

SIRTee15:
Ok now let me show U where the John got it from.

Ever heard of Targum?

Ok, Just hearing about it

I found out it's Aramaic interpretation/translation of the tanakh.