₦airaland Forum

AntiChristian:
So Joseph and his brothers fought because their God was fake too?

Bros you're going stale!

U dey mind the dumb skull?

I never see someone make that kind of silly argument.

Even the nation of Israel split into two after Solomon and they fought each other.

SIRTee15:
It's important to corroborate religious claims with non religious evidence otherwise it's nothing but blind faith.
If we are not even sure Muhammed exist, how do we know the Quran is true.

See who is talking about corroborating religious claims with non religious evidence here. I'm glad you know it's something akin to a blind faith without that corroboration.

SIRTee15:
The book simply copied from other books. All the story of Jesus in the Quran are from apocryphal gospel books.

Which of your gospels is not apocryphal? Or because some people canonised 4 that suit whatever their agenda was out of all the gospels that were flying around in the 1st and 2nd century
-that automatically make that 4 non-apocryphal?
-That automatically make the information in others null and void?
-That automatically make all the information in the canonised Gospels 100% true?

I'm not sure you guys realize how lame it is when you guys make this nonsense claim that Prophet Muhammad copied from here and there to make up the text of the Qur'an. What you are telling us is that he must have had a very big hidden library that no one knew of except him, and he must have been able to read and understand in at least these languages: Arabic, Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, and Egyptian hieroglyphs(a lost language at the time). Yet what we know about him and what his companions knew is that he couldn't even read or write in his native language.

You are making this claim of prophet Muhammad copying from somewhere and you are reading the synoptic gospels that are side by side in your scripture and yet you can't smell a rat about them copying from each other.
Christianity hypocrisy is out of this world, it is something forged in hell.

SIRTee15:
If Allah is truly one as Muslims claim, Can I worship the shin of Allah?

Why exactly do you want to worship the shin of Allah?

SIRTee15:
Ok before we start.
I need to clarify 2 things

1. Do U accept the 2nd person of the trinity as per Christian theology is the WORD OF GOD- also called God the Son/Jesus Christ.

2. Tell me the authoritative Jewish texts that U know.

I need clear answers to above because I don't want any denial once I bring the evidence.

No problem. We know that's what you believe. We know that's what John gospel says, we just don't know where the writer get that from.

Tanakh, Oral torah(Talmud, Mishnah).

SIRTee15:
Of course, only U has divine attributes to interpret the Quran correctly.
The rest of your scholars are dumb and stupid.

Not everyone is dumb like some people that swallowed a man made doctrine that is not clearly stated in their scripture. Some of us cherish our salvation.

And no we don't need divine attributes or spooky spirit to understand scriptures, we just need our God given common sense.

SIRTee15:
Yet same Quran failed to tell us the age of maturity.
The sahih hadith tells us but of course according to Qasim, these hadiths are written by scholars deficient in knowledge so cant be trusted.

Is the age of maturity mentioned in the Bible? Na the hypocrisy we dey always dey talk about be this o. Small time u go talk say we no fit defend Qur'an, we dey always run to the Bible.

If you apply common sense, u'll know the marriageable age is to come after being able to make sound judgements according to Q 4:6

And for the records, I am not saying the Tafsir is totally wrong, because at a time when most girls are married off at the early stage of puberty. They are likely to come across girls that have matured physically and mentally for marriage but are yet to see their periods.

SIRTee15:
Anyway, I will bring U evidence of plurality nature of God from the ancient jewish authoritative text.

The question is will U accept it and stop disturbing Christians with your poor understanding of trinity of I bring the evidence from an authoritative text of ancient Jewish.
I need U to answer because I don't want U to stress me this afternoon.

No problem. Bring the evidence.

SIRTee15:
If I show U the evidence that the ancient Jews believed in the concept of Trinity, will U accept it or as usual reject it like U did with your own Tafsir?

I don't know Tafsir is now divine revelation that I have to follow 100%

If you have any evidence that the Jews at some point believed in trinity you can bring them, hopefully it's not going to be some unknown document from some unknown Jewish sect that are influenced by Hellenism.

AntiChristian:
They are bigots and hypocrites! They have pastors involved in rape, sexual immorality, rituals, etc but it's only Muslims' they emphasize!

Their hypocrisy stinks to high heaven, whenever a Muslim misbehave, yeah it is Islam.

But when a Christian misbehave, yeah it's the individual.

Ojuntana:
Yes. Jesus took over the Kingdom of God immediately he died and rose from the grave. It's there in the Bible

The Kingdom of God in Daniel's prophecy is the kingdom Jesus is coming to establish on earth at His second coming when He will come as a King

Do you know that kingdom of God is supposed the defeat the 4th kingdom from Babylon? and I'm sure the 4th kingdom is no more around.

Ojuntana:
The Jews have always been against Muhammad from the beginning of his claimed prophethood. That was why he fought them relentlessly. Go and read Quran 9:29 or do you dispute that the People of the Book being referred to are Jews? Khaybar was a strong Jewish town that Muhammad attacked. In fact, all throughout Muhammad's interactions with Jews, they always tested him to disprove his claim and he always failed. He ate the poison of the Khaybar woman and it affected him.

Yeah, the Jews have been against him from the onset, because the Jews were expecting a Prophet and that is why some of them settled in Yathrib in the first place but unfortunately for them the Prophet was from the Arabs and not from the Israelites but their pride won't let them follow the non-Israelite prophet.

Qur'an 9:29 is not about fighting indiscriminately, it is about fighting those non- Muslims under Islamic rule that don't want to pay Jizya tax.

Fight those who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day, nor comply with what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden, nor embrace the religion of truth from among those who were given the Scripture, UNTIL they pay the Jizya, willingly submitting, fully humbled.

And before you come back to say why are the Muslims not paying, the Muslims pay a form of tax known as zakat too.

The prophet lived another 4 years after Khaybar, so what's your point about Khaybar?

Ojuntana:
It is everlasting or is Jesus not everlasting? Is he not an Israelite? Is there any other way to God except Him?

Did Jesus say the kingdom of God was given to him or how did you conclude the kingdom was given to Jesus. Because Jesus was saying it will be taken away from JEWS/ISRAELITES and it will be given to a NATION that will produce its fruit

Is the kingdom of God Jesus talking about the same as the kingdom of God of Daniel prophecy?

Ojuntana:
I always find it funny that you guys will claim the Bible is adulterated yet you will be seeking validation for your religion from same Bible. Why don't you use your quran to show that the Bible is adulterated instead of claiming lies against Jeremiah?

This line is stale already, the fact that we said the Torah has been corrupted does not mean the word of God is not in there again, even the gospel as over dilluted as it is, still contain the word of God.

And I am not seeking validation for my religion. What brought about this is that you claimed the Jews see prophet Muhammad as a fake Prophet and I'm telling you that is not the case that some of them even see the rise of Islam as a fulfillment of Genesis 17:20.

How did I lie against Jeremiah??
Am I the one saying this?
“How can you say, ‘We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us’? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes has made it into a lie. Jeremiah 8:8

How can I use the Qur'an to prove the Bible has been corrupted to you when you don't believe the Qur'an is the word of God, you are just going to reject whatever I bring.

Ojuntana:
He was not. The covenant is fulfilled in Jesus. All those who believe in Jesus and bear fruits of repentance will enjoy the benefits of the covenant like other Israelites who rejected it would

Ok so u agree the covenant with Isaac is not everlasting at the end of the day?

Ojuntana:
Islamists and attempts to obfsucate issues is not new. Read below Genesis 17:17-22


It is easy to see that God rejected establishing is kingdom through Ishmael even with Abraham's pleas. He specifically said Isaac will be born and will carry the covenant. Ishmael was circumcised. But that was the end of it. None of his descendants after him were circumcised.
The promise to Ishmael is to make him a great nation with 12 children. No more. No less. Quit the lies abeg.

And the covenant is everlasting. It is fulfilled through the birth of Jesus. Jesus is from the line of Isaac. And the kingdom being taken away from Israelites which he referred to is simply to say that the Gospel of Jesus will be taken from them and given to Gentiles. That is why there are more non-Israelite Christians today than there are Christian Jews. It does not mean the covenant is not everlasting since Jesus came from the seed of Isaac. "Through you the whole earth will be blessed" That's the covenant.

So if the covenant with Isaac is everlasting.

Why did Jesus tell them the kingdom of God is going to be taken away from them and it will be given to a nation that will produce its fruit?

Was Jesus lying?

I am not sure u realize you are contradicting yourself, in one breath you are saying the covenant with Isaac is everlasting, in another you are saying the covenant has been taken away from them and it has been given to the gentiles.

Ojuntana:
It is left for you to explain how that particular verse in Gen17vs20 relates to Islam. The preceding verse has God clearly rejecting Ishmael as the son of promise. Or did you not read God's reply to Abraham's prayer? Even in the preceding chapter, the Angel of God blessed the child but predicted his future and none of the prediction has anything to do with establishing a religion. In chapter 21 as well, God explicitly said Isaac is the reckoned son but he will also make of Ishmael a nation and in verse 20 of that same chapter he got a wife and became a "great archer in the wilderness". That is the fulfillment of the prophecy concerning Ishmael. Also note that even Esau was blessed by God in Genesis and he had plenty as recorded in chapter 33. If we are to use your interpretation, one wonders where the religion of Esau is.

No, the previous verse did not exclude Ishmael in any way, the covenant is already in place, so the promise of establishing something already in place with Isaac when he is born in future does not in any way exclude Ishmael.

This is Abraham prayer "oh that Ishmael might LIVE BEFORE you."

God response to the prayer "as for Ishmael, I have HEARD you: I will surely bless him........and I will make him into a great nation.

Do you think the great nation is going to be an Idolatry great nation?

and don't be fooled the blessing of Isaac is not everlasting as verse 19 claimed, because if the blessing is everlasting and it is not going to end Jesus won't be telling the Israelites in Matthew 21:43 that the kingdom of God is going to be taken away from them, and it will be given to a nation that will produce its fruit.

So it is either the covenant is everlasting and Jesus was lying to them or the covenant is not everlasting and Jesus was just telling them their fate.

Ojuntana:
Stop advertising your ignorance. Elohim is not a name God gave himself. It is an appellation given to God by the Hebrews because they feared to call God by His given name which is Yahweh. Elohim is not the only name they call him. They also call him ElShaddai etc. Anywhere you see The Lord used in Hebrew texts, it refers to an appellation given to God by the Hebrews. God is Yahweh in Hebrew not Elohim

I am not sure you are getting my point Sherlock.

Elohim is plural of Eloha
It was used for only Moses in exodus 7:1

That is a majestic plural except you want to tell us God sent at least 2 Moses as Elohim to Pharaoh.

Steep:
exactly they can't see the irony. How can a god claims absolute oneness, yet prefers using "we" to describe himself simply it is more honorable. That is allah is not honorable enough so he had to copy human behaviour of making himself seem more than one person to gain more respect.

Do you know the word Elohim is plural?

Majestic plural is used in some languages. I don't know why some of you are this daft that you don't know about that. Majestic plural is used in both Arabic and Hebrew.

Then the LORD said to Moses, “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet. Exodus 7:1

In the verse above the word translated to God is Elohim. Are you telling us God sent 2 or more Moses to Pharaoh?

Even if you knuckleheads want to take Elohim to mean your Father, son and holy spirit hogwash. Did God send a 3 in 1 Moses to Pharaoh?

TenQ:
Do you think by any means I can pronounce the Word YHWH perfectly? YHWH means "I AM!" or "I AM that I AM" meaning the "ONE WHOM ALL CONSISTS IN" or "THE ONE WHO IS SELF EXISTING!"

Thanks be to God that you can read. I cannot even pronounce Allah perfectly but at least I can write it with the Islamic adopted spelling of the transliteration of Allah!

Find another argument!

What is the meaning of the name Allah?

Is it Al-LAH (deity-Lah)?
The old Aramaic name of any Deity is Al- (El-)

Don't forget that
Abdul-LAH is the slave of LAH!
Alhamdulli-LAH is praise be to LAH!

So why are you throwing around YHWH as if you know the correct vowels and the pronunciation, even the Jews don't know the correct pronunciation again.

And how do you know the meaning if you don't know the correct pronunciation?

The meaning of Allah is "The God" Al-ilah. because the Arabic word for deity is ilah and Al is a definite article

Ojuntana:
Gen17vs20 does not imply Islam. It is beyond ridiculous to claim so.

Yeah, it doesn't imply Islam in your dream

So where is the great nation? what you probably don't know is that genesis 17:20 was God response to Abraham prayer "oh that Ishmael might live before you"

Tell us what Genesis 17:20 implies since you know better and let us know when the prophecy was fulfilled.

Ojuntana:
Jews are against Muslims as much as Muslims are against them. One of the sore point is the temple mount in Jerusalem. But besides that, even the Qur'an prescribes fighting and killing Jews and denounced the Torah as adulterated so any Jew who believes Islam must be deluded. Most Jews do not and that's a fact.

The fact that the Arabs and the Jews are at each others throat disprove nothing about Genesis 17:20 nor does it disprove the Jews acknowledging they worship the same God as the Muslims.

Are u now making things up? Where does the Qur'an prescribe fighting and killing the Jews?

Yeah the Torah has been adulterated and Jeremiah 8:8 attested to that.

Unfortunately most Jews believe they worship the same God as the Muslims and this is a fact, and by Jews I mean orthodox Jew and not Zionist, Zionist are majorly non-religious.

Even in their rulings they are allowed to pray in mosques in the absence of synagogue and they wouldn't even enter a church because they consider churches to be a place of Idol worshipping.

If they consider you Christians to be Idol worshippers, and you are claiming to be worshipping YHWH, where do you Christians get your own version of YHWH from?

NB: whatever their beliefs are mean nothing to me as a Muslim.

Ojuntana:
That the person who asked the question is a Rabbi does not make him an authority. Judge for yourself if your prophet was correct about the source of resemblance of parents and their offspring. Automatically, your prophet is calling kids who resemble neither of their parents bastards or stolen kids! Do you agree with him?

the person that was asking the question must have had a fore knowledge about what he was asking the prophet. If the answer he received from the Prophet was not satisfactory for him then he wouldn't have became a muslim because he accepted Islam on the spot.

Ojuntana:
Jews also disagree that Allah is Yahweh. They do not accept Muhammad as a prophet neither do they accept the quranic narratives of their ancestor. Funny enough, the Qur'an accepts that Jesus was a prophet of God while the Jews insist he is not.

Where does the Qur'an accepts the existence of the spirit of God?

Which Jew disagree that Allah is Yahweh? Jews don't even know the correct pronunciation of the name again and they don't use the name. All these Yahweh, Jehovah are just guess work.

I know fully well Allah is not Yahweh according to the Christians, and I will also agree with you 💯. We don't worship a 3 in 1 God

Q 15:29
When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him(Adam) of MY SPIRIT, fall ye down in obeisance unto him.”

TenQ:
Mr Liar: is your God a Boundless Spirit?
Is the name of your God YHWH?
If it isn't, you are a satan worshipper


Even your God doesn't know what a spirit it! SMH!

I have been asking you the Questions: is Allah Omnipresent and Omniscient and Omnipotent?
Your prophet says NO!

How can that be God?

Is the name of y

Tell us the pronunciation YHWH and the meaning if it has a meaning

TenQ:
I guess you are not educated about the Arab Christians.

Again,
The Name of the Allah of the Arab Christians is YHWH!


Ask any Muslim if any of the 99 names of Allah is YHWH?
The name of the Allah of the Arab Muslims is Allah!

What is the Pronunciation of YHWH and does it have a meaning?

Ojuntana:
That's a lie
Most Jews from even the time of Muhammad see him as a fake prophet. The Jews claim exclusivity in the aspect of worship and will never accept any non- Jew as a prophet. Besides, Muhammad was notorious for failing the simple test given to him to prove the genuiness of his claims to prophethood as shown in the hadith below. Judge for yourself!!

Unfortunately, it is not a lie. Some even see the rise of Islam as a fulfillment of Genesis 17:20 and most of them see him as a prophet to the Arabs/Ishmaelites contrary to what you believe that they see him as a fake prophet.

And unfortunately for you again, the person asking the prophet question in the Hadith you are quoting was a Jewish Rabbi and he became a muslim. So how are you sure the prophet failed the test he was put through?

Ojuntana:
Jews call their God Yahweh same as Christians. Jews only disagree with the status of Jesus. They even accept the existence of the Spirit of God!! Do you Muslims accept the spirit of God exists?

The fact remain they disagree with you on your concept of God.

Where do you Christians get your own version of YHWH from?
Are you guys worshipping a counterfeit of the Jewish God?

We muslim also accept the existence of spirit of God.

Ojuntana:
I am not in debate with Jews. The Jews accept the Old Testament as part of Torah. Their debate is about Jesus as a son of God which is not new. The Jews do not accept the Qur'an as writing about their God even though Muhammad copied so many Jewish figures into it.

Well, most Jews will tell you they worship the same God as the Muslims, and we believe our God revealed the Qur'an. What does that tell you?

I am not sure we are ever going to find a Jew that will accept they worship the same God as the Christian.

So are you Christians worshipping a counterfeit of the Jewish God?

Ojuntana:
Eureka!!
There you have it. Bless your soul. The Arabic Allah in Islam is a counterfeit of the Jewish God.
You're enlightened

Confusion in enemies camp

Unfortunately for u and Tenq the Jews don't believe you have the same God as them.

So do you guys worship a God that is counterfeit of the Jewish God?

TenQ:
Is Allah a Spirit? No!
Is Allah a Father? No!
Is Allah Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omniscient? No!

Allah is NOT the God of Abraham, Moses and David thus It's of no wonder that Allah is just as complex like Iblis in description (very simple to describe).

Keep running helter skelter.

Even the Jews you Christians claim you worship the same YHWH with. They disagree with you on the concept of God.

Their view on YHWH is closer to our view on Allah
Their view on God as echad is the same as our view of ahad

So where do you Christians get your own YHWH and your echad (compound one) from? from Iblis?

AntiChristian:
The concept of the Trinity—the Christian doctrine that defines God as one being in three persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit—has been explained through various analogies and theological frameworks. Here’s a summary of some of the best ways it has been explained, along with the corresponding impediments to each explanation:

1.Water Analogy
Explanation: Water can exist in three states: liquid, ice, and steam. Each state is fundamentally water yet manifests differently.
Impediment: This analogy leans towards modalism, suggesting that God merely changes forms rather than existing simultaneously in three persons.

2.Triangular Analogy
Explanation: A triangle has three sides and is one shape. Each side represents a person of the Trinity, unified as one entity.
Impediment: This can imply that the persons of the Trinity are merely parts of a whole, which can lead to a misunderstanding of the distinctiveness and co-equality of the three persons.

3.Roles of a Person Analogy
Explanation: A person can be a parent, a child, and a sibling simultaneously, showcasing different roles while remaining one person.
Impediment: This analogy risks falling into partialism or modalism as well, blurring the lines of individual personhood within the Trinity.

4.Sun Analogy
Explanation: The sun represents the Father, its light represents the Son, and heat represents the Holy Spirit. All are aspects of the same source.
Impediment: This analogy can imply that the Son and the Holy Spirit are not fully divine as they are merely emanations from the Father.

5. Mathematical Analogy
Explanation: Using the equation 1 + 1 + 1 = 1, this analogy emphasizes the unity of the three persons in one essence.
Impediment: It can confuse those unfamiliar with advanced mathematics and may not effectively convey the relationship between the three persons. 1+1+1= 3 not 1.

6. The Egg Analogy
The egg analogy explains the Trinity using an egg's three parts: shell, egg white, and yolk, which together form one egg. It illustrates unity and distinction. However, it risks partialism, implying each part is only a portion of God, and oversimplifies the complex relationships among the three persons.

So what is the best way to explain trinity without embracing modalism, partialism or debasing God from what He is not?

What we can all agree as human being is trinity is not something that can be explained logically. Just like the concept of Jesus being fully man and fully God.

The reason why I am of the opinion that Christianity as a religion is 100% faith and 0% common sense because you are not going to be needing your common sense to accept Christianity, it is just going to be lot of emotional preaching like "God love us so much, he became flesh to die for our sins", "I saw Jesus in my dream" and the likes.. because the evidence of this triune God is find wanting and not clearly stated in the Bible.

SIRTee15:
WHAT EVIDENCE DO YOU HAVE THAT WHAT THE JEWISH PROPHETS WROTE IN THEIR BOOKS ABOUT THEIR GOD IS NOT A FABRICATION.
TELL ME THE EVIDENCE THAT MAKES YOU BELEIVE THE TANAKH IS ACTUALLY FROM THE ONLY TRUE GOD.

THIS DEBATE IS ABOUT 'IS THE QURAN FROM GOD?'. I ASKED 3 QUESTIONS AND YOU FAILED WOEFULLY TO DEFEND ANYONE. ALL U DID IS RUNNING TO THE BIBLE TO HIDE.

3 QUESTIONS ABOUT THE QURAN AND YOU COULDN'T COME UP WITH ANY CONVINCING UNAMBIGOUS CLEAR ANSWER. AND U WANT TO BELEIVE THAT BOOK IS FROM GOD.
THE 3 QUESTIONS EXPOSED THE INCONSISTENCY, HISTORICAL DISCONNECT, POOR HISTORICAL KNOWLEDGE AND GLARING ERROR IN THE QURAN. THESE ARE THE REASONS YOU COULDN'T ASNWER MY QUESTIONS.
I CAN ASK ANOTHER 3 QUESTIONS AND THE OUTCOME WILL STILL BE THE SAME.

as my colleagues as advised, we should end it unless u want to tell me why u believe the tanakh is the true word of God.
I NOTICE U ARE VERY ITCHY TO JUMP TO BIBLE, SO WE CAN AS WELL MOVE TO THE BIBLE. ASK ME BIBLE QUESTIONS OR PROPHECY AND WILL REPLY U- preferably another thread.

These are the 3 questions u asked
(1) Is paedophilia a sin in Islam

My ans: Qur'an 4:6 was my answer. There is marriageable age, and that age coincide to one having sound judgement and be able to manage wealth to some extent.

(2) Is Allah all knowing and all powerful? in relation to Allah not knowing there is possibility of having a son by cloning

My ans: Qur'an 39:4

Had Allah Willed to have a son, He could have chosen whatever He willed of His creation. Glory be to Him! He is Allah—the One, the Supreme."

Allah can have a Son by whatever means possible, He is just not having a son because it is not in his nature.

( 3) U asked about the companions of the Cave, who they are in history and their beliefs for Allah to consider them believers

I told you who they are in history (I guess that is not in the Bible)

For their beliefs for them to be considered believers by Islam standard: I showed that there are some early Christian sects that did not hold the belief of substitutionary vicarious atonement and did not take Jesus as God.

I know what your problem is, you thought you had something in your arsenal to debunk the Qur'an. But unfortunately, you will have to delete these 3 from your list now because it has been dealt with.

The reason we go into the Bible at times is to expose you Christians hypocrisy, you will have something worse in your Bible and you will be attacking Islam for lesser.

Have a great week.

SIRTee15:
As u can see, Jesus made it clear his message is for the whole world and the Quran seem to validate it.

Are you telling me "I am only sent to the lost sheep of House of Israel' mean I am not only sent to the lost sheep of House of Israel?

And the Instruction "Do not go into the ways of the Gentiles and Samaritan" mean go into the ways of the Gentiles and Samaritan?

The real question is why did Jesus said he was only sent to the lost sheep of house of Israel?
Was he lying or Did he forget his mission.?

So don't hide behind those who followed his teachings after he left.

SIRTee15:
U gotta be kidding me, most absurd and ridiculous statement I have ever heard. No wonder U failed woefully to defend the Qur'an in this debate but will quickly duck to the bible because in your thinking if I can prove the bible wrong then Quran is right.

There many other ABRAHAMIC religions- what happened to Bahia faith, what happened to The Mormons, Sikhism and even judiasm- who still await the Messiah.
What about Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism and even African traditional religion. What evidence do U have that Orunmila and his divine oracle is not from God?

I thought you already believe in God of Abraham and that is the reason you are a Christian, the reason why I focus my beam on Christianity and Islam in relation to Judaism. but here you are bringing Obatala, Hinduism, Buddhism, and the likes, u even have to go to off shoots like Mormon and Baha'i just to take a cheap shot.

Is there a low you can't go to win argument?

SIRTee15:
How do U even know the Abrahamic religion has the true God. How do U know what is written in the bible is from the Only true God.
There was monotheistic faith 1000 yrs b4 Abraham even came on stage and that deity is not God of the bible.
People had been worshipping Only One deity- monotheism for a thousand years before Abraham said he was called by YAHWEH as the only true God.
So how do U know Abraham was right and those b4 him were wrong.

I now understand your problem. Your faith is based on refuting Christianity, then adopting the next similar religion to it.
U don't even know enough about your Qur'an to defend it convincingly.
Your theological foundation is poor. Your faith is blind.

I think our next debate should actually be Why is the God of the Abrahamic religion the True God. What evidence do we have to prove that the God called ELOHIM OR WHO REVEALED HIMSELF AS YHWH is the Only True God.
We need to go back to the foundation first b4 all these structure we are building.

I can tell you for a fact that there is no way you SirTee can conveniently prove any Abrahamic religion has the true God, because you make a joke of prophecies, they mean nothing to you.
You had to agree with the scholars you hate so much on the prophecies in the book of Daniel, U will rather accept the prophecies failed than accept Islam fulfilled the prophecy. You have to do some wuru-wuru with Isaiah 53 just to make sure Jesus fulfilled the prophecy.

And here you are saying shit about me having a poor theological foundation and a blind faith. I am not sure you have been looking into the mirror lately.

SIRTee15:
This is a waste of time. I already debunked Son of Man in Daniel, whether U accept evidence of ancient Jewish text and from Jesus own word is your business.
Unless U can bring a counter evidence, pls don't go back to that passage.

U have debunked nothing bro, this is a prophecy that is supposed to line up with history, and we know how history played out. But if you want to hide behind some unknown document of some unknown Jewish sect and turn a blind eye to how history actually played out. No Problem.

It is not our emotions that will count in the end.

SIRTee15:
Next I will debunk the prophet like Moses. He's Jesus and can never be Muhammed.

I will also debunk the lies that the blessing of Abraham via his offspring can never be Muhammed.

But most importantly we need to establish and produce evidence that the God of the Abrahamic religion is the only True God.
Why is other deity before Abrahim and after him false even if they are monotheism.

U don't need to debunk anything again.. if you can go against a prophecy that we know how it played out in history, you will go against anything just to remain in your folly. The truth does not matter to you, you just want to win argument.

SIRTee15:
My brother I just taya.
I think I will give up now that I have finally diagnosed his problem.

U have a very big mouth for someone still struggling between all those religions u listed up there.

SIRTee15:
Stop deviating. ISA was sent to the people of Israel not people of Asia minor.
How come people from Ephesus are called Christians. Why are they following Messiah sent only to the Israelites according to your Qur'an?

Stop ducking to the bible. Even if Christianity is wrong, that doesn't make Islam right.

How come we are finding followers of ISA amongst gentiles.

I already showed you in your scripture where Prophet Isa clearly states He was only sent to the Israelites confirming what the Qur'an says about his mission.

So the fact that his message spread to Ephesus after he left is not his fault in any way.

And yes if Christianity is wrong that automatically make Islam right.

Because if both are wrong that implies God has failed in his promise.

The promise he made to Abraham
"and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me.”

He has failed with that Individual he promised to send to the whole world.
That servant of Isaiah 42, the son of man of Daniel, the prophet like Moses of Deut 18:18, Desire of all nation of Haggai 2:7

And we both know God can't fail with his promise.

SIRTee15:
We Christians believe in Trinity and deity of Christ because it's in the scriptures and the early Jewish sect confirmed it. Not because some 360 old men raised their hands and voted Yes in a church building in the 4th century.
Nobody in Christianity cares about Nicene creed. It's irrelevant to our belief. If whatever they believe didn't come from the scripture we will reject it.
There were numerous councils by church fathers in that period including praying for saints, purgatory etc majority of Christians rejected it because it's not in the bible.

One of these days, you will show me that trinity in the scripture. Not for argument sake, I just want to know how you trinitarians deal with verses like these emphasizing God's singular nature.

Deuteronomy 4:35: "You were shown these things so that you might know that the Lord is God; besides him there is no other."

Isaiah 45:5: "I am the Lord, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God."

Exodus 20:3: "You shall have no other gods before me."

Psalm 86:10: "You are great and do marvelous deeds; you alone are God."

Psalm 83:18: "Let them know that you, whose name is the Lord—that you alone are the Most High over all the earth."

And with Jesus that y'all claimed to be part of that God making statement like this

John 20:17: I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.

Luke 22:42: Father if you are willing, take this cup from me, yet not my will, but yours be done.

John 17:3: Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

And the ancient Jewish sect that confirms the triune God and the prophetic authority they had.

SIRTee15:
Ok fine. If U want to base your validity of the scriotue on evidence from NT scholars then U have to apply smart principle fully and to the Qur'an.
NT scholars unanimously agree that Jesus was crucified and that John the baptist baptised Jesus.
Do U accept their claim.

Non Muslim Quranic scholars also claim the Qur'an has myths and legends in it and that the injil and Torah mentioned in the Quran is the same as the gospel and Torah with the Christians and Jews.

Do U agree with them?

Is u disagree, why then do U want me to accept the claims of NT scholars blankly without any counterevidence.

We have the writings of the early church fathers which prove the 27 books have the correct authors ascribed to them.
Why should I believe NT scholars over church fathers?
If U insist that the authority of NT scholars override that of religious leaders, then same should apply to U.
Simple.


Evidence from apostolic fathers and early church leaders as far back as 90 AD confirms the authenticity of the NT.
U can bring up anyone of the NT books and will give U evidence of it's authenticity from the early church fathers.

U very funny. U know nothing about the ebionites outside of what that early church fathers wrote about them. And stop lying church fathers as back as early 2nd century wrote about them.
Now when what's written about them goes with your narrative, then that's true; BUT when it's not convenient then they must be lying against ebionites.
How are U even sure ebionites ever existed, they could have made them up to counter heresy flying around.

I don't just swallow whatever the scholars are saying I am not that biased. I know how badly they want to tear apart supernatural claims and the likes.

A man that lived 2000yrs ago, with all those crucifixion stories around him. What exactly do you want them to conclude? He flew to heaven alive?

Of course I will apply same principle fully to the Qur'an. The worst any scholar can say is the Qur'an we read today goes back to Uthman council. And that is enough for me, I go use faith carry the remaining. There are some among them that have argued that the Qur'an was probably written by a council during the Abbasid caliphate, but the presence of manuscripts that even date back to the life time of the Prophet have put that claim to shame.

Just give me early church fathers that confirmed these 2 gospels Mark and Matthew. If Matthew wrote Matthew and Mark wrote Mark, What that would mean for me is Jesus Disciples that lived and walked with him actually did believe he was crucified.

Iraneous was the first to write about them and he lived 130 - 202 CE, so he probably wrote around mid to late 2nd century so I'm not that far off.

Who wrote about them in the early 2nd century?

SIRTee15:
How come Allah didn't know anything about Gene cloning?
Why should Allah dependent on a spouse to have a Son?

If God the Father decides to clone himself to give us God the son, then that son is still going to be a creation of the Father because he would have been willed into existence by the Father and Qur'an 39:4 already negate that possibility

"Had Allah Willed to have a son, He could have chosen whatever He willed of His creation. Glory be to Him! He is Allah—the One, the Supreme."

Here, Allah is telling us if He will it, of cos He can do it. But He is not doing it because it is not in His nature to have a son.

So don't bother to argue Allah does not know the possibilities of having a son by cloning or whatever.

Odingo1:
My research on Christian Bible shows that the act was prohibited by Moses on their way to promise land. It is forbidden for them to marry their uncle daughter or stepdaughter.
Leviticus 20:17-21 and Deuteronomy 27:20-23 clearly prohibited those practices for the Jews.

Are u now making things up?

None of the Leveticus and the Deuteronomy u are referencing forbid cousins marriage, infact cousins marriage is a practice common among Jews too.

The Bible does not forbid marriage between cousins.