₦airaland Forum

PROVERBZ:
For instance, your religious books describe Alexander the great as a devout Muslims even though he was recorded to be a homosexual pagan?

Or the claim that anybody that worships or submits to one God before Mohamed was a devout Muslim this includes zoro astrians who we know have nothing to do with Abrahamic religion. Infact, we are told that Mohamed and his successors gave special status to zoro astrains because they only worshiped one God and their families and properties were not destroyed like those of other non Muslims.


How about, the claim that early Christians were Muslims and that Jesus wrote a gospel called the injeel. Islam conveniently claims both have disappeared from the surface of the earth. We constantly find artifacts from civilisations as far back as Sumerians, but nothing on the claims islam ever makes. Would it not ne nice to discover something that can be carbon dated back to those periods with Islamic inscriptions or writings or something.

Also the claim of Mohammed visiting the temple in Jeruslame on a flying horse even though we know for sure that at the time of Mohamed, the temple was only but ruined.

Those this not bother you. The only proof your religion has is that the trinity does not make sense to human understanding which is not really a proof because u don't know what God is like.


I didn't even mentions some of the silly claims like the devil lives in your nose when u sleep or that a Flys wings contains poison and antidotes.
The prophet said alot of silly things in his life time I don't want to even go Into.

The Qur'an does not describe Alexander the Great as a devout Muslim. The reason some think Dhul qurnayn in chapter 18 of the Qur'an is Alexander the Great is because there are stories about Alexander the Great that seem very similar to the story of Dhul qurnayn. But the Qur'an story of Dhul qurnayn predate that particular story of Alexander the Great. So it is most likely the author of the story of Alexander the Great borrowed from the Qur'an and not the other way round.

I don't know where you get the idea that Muslims destroyed or have to destroy the families and properties of people that don't follow Abrahamic faith.
Our belief as a Muslim is that God sent different prophet to different people at different times, not Just prophets that stem out of Abraham. We believe there are other prophets that are not descendants of Abraham.
Cyrus the Great was a Zoroastrian and God called him his messiah in Isaiah 45:1. That should tell you something.

Muslims don't believe Jesus wrote a book. We believe the Injeel was a revelation given to Jesus Christ with which he preached, his disciples might have written it down and most likely Apostle Matthew did write it down.

The first gospel to be written was said to have been written by Mathew in Hebrew/Aramaic and the document is now lost. So it not as if Muslims are making claims that are unfounded. All we have of the Gospel now are anonymously written documents.

if the temple was destroyed did the site of the temple disappear?

No, Islam does not need trinity to be false for validation. It is rather Christianity that need Islam to be false so they can continue with the delusion of a 3-1 God. Or God becoming man/sending his son to die for man sin so he can forgive man.

There is no record of any prophet teaching or preaching a 3-1 God, rather what we have are teachings like these

Isaiah 45:5
I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me,

Isaiah 43:10
You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.

You are the one that should be bothered on where a 3-1 God comes from.
You should be bothered on why God that is against human sacrifice suddenly need the sacrifice of his son to forgive sins.

Is this suppose to be a Joke or what?

With this over reaching your arms must be dragging on the floor by now.

Gabrielshow24:
It's still literal use of "my servant" and you didn't take context into play.

It's still false equivocation anyhow you frame it!

Anything that make you snore and drool at night..

Gabrielshow24:
False equivocation. In this instance, the term "servant" is being interpreted in a straightforward, perhaps negative sense, without considering the broader theological or relational context in which a son can also be seen as a servant to his Father.

U should probably widen your knowledge.

If you do you will know the word translated as my servant there is abdi same word as abd in Arabic.

Gabrielshow24:
That's my point, why will your supposed all knowing and all powerful God pray?

And who does he pray to?🤨

That's one of the errors in your conceptualization of God; "Your prophet says Allah prays" 👀

Why not bring reference?

Or you are just going to keep making things up?

If Una don go learn Islam from David wood and Sam shamoun university, next thing is to come online to embarrass yourself..

Gabrielshow24:
You seem to forget "your Allah prays👀"

Also stop with the sugar coating.
You don't address your God(Allah) as a Father and again Allah said he is Father to no one!!!

Stop with the lies.
Allah as a Father is only but an expression, you are slaves of Allah!

Does this resemble the christian God or Allah as used by Arab christians👀?

You are a Joke bro.

Allah is the creator of Heavens and Earth. He owns everything. Who is Allah going to pray to?

You are the one that worship a being that is lacking in knowledge and offer prayers to another higher being so don't drag us Muslims into your confusion...you should own your confusion with your full chest.

Of course I'm a slave of God. Is that suppose to shame me or what?

See who else is described as servant of God below!
Your God is described as a servant of another being, the joke is on you!

Mat 12:18
Here is my servant whom I have chosen, the one I love, in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will proclaim justice to the nations.

Guy tell us wetin e mean that God is father to you Christians or you can just find somewhere go sit down!

Gabrielshow24:
This is rather childish.
Identities are different!

Two people can have the same names but their characteristics are different.

So an Arab christian calling Allah has an underlying concept or identity of fatherhood unlike a Muslim with a concept of slavery.

Well, as a Muslim we are not allowed to call God 'father', Even though we understand the term "Father" for God is a metaphorical expression that conveys creator, sustainer and provider, and Yes Allah indeed describe himself in such manner, so Allah is like a Father to Us, except if the term "Father" for God meant something different to you Christians. You can educate me on what God as Father mean for Christians.

We acknowledge that the Jews indeed used and they still using the term but some group of people bastardise the term, they turn God to a 3 in 1 Father, son and a spooky spirit... They make God have a literal begotten son and all sort of blasphemous hogwash.

So the term 'Father' for God has been abrogated for us more like how the term 'Baal' was abrogated in Hosea 2:16.

$100 Skrill fund needed

NairaLTQ:
I received a ban responding to your post but I have the screenshot here

Are you telling me you got banned for typing load of trash that make no sense?

Unfortunately for you guys again the correct pronunciation of YHWH is lost and God did not reveal himself as YHWH to Abraham.

TenQ:
Unfortunately for you

Allah is not God. He is Hubal aka Baal, the chief idol of the Kaaba. The upgraded version of the God of Mohammed's father Abdullah!


The name of the God of Abraham and Moses and David is YHWH: Is Allah's name also YHWH?

The God of Abraham and Moses and David is their Father: is Allah the Father of Mohammed?

Unfortunately for you.

By your assertion, you are implying all Arab Christians both pre-Islam and post are also worshipping Hubal aka Baal whatever that nonsense means.

You just want to throw your fellow Christian under the bus to score cheap point??

Make Una try dey apply common sense small small na!

ychris:
1530.

Lmk if that works for u

1500

$100 Skrill needed.

SIRTee15:
So what's the relevance of Muhammed and the book he brought, if I can continue to follow the old ways and still be saved?

If the old ways are still relevant, what then is the usefulness of Muhammed?

Prophet Muhammad was sent as a prophet to all of mankind, the fact that salvation includes genuine Jews and Christians of all ages does not in anyway invalidates the message of Islam. It only shows how compassionate God is.

SIRTee15:
So in effect U saying it's ok according to the Quran for Jews and Christians to continue using the gospel and Torah respectively if they reject Muhammed as a prophet.

Do you find it unjust that God does not want to throw into hell Jews and Christians that are genuinely following ways He himself sent guidance for?

SIRTee15:
U guys are setting a dangerous precedence with your justification of Jewish rejection of the injeel.

The injeel was sent to the Jews and actually corrected the Torah. But Jews continue to use an out of date book for guidance and Allah is saying he's ok with it.

Not only did Allah approved a defective book for guidance and judgement; Allah also undermined the authority of one his prophet by accepting the idea of people rejecting prophets sent to them.

That's what it looks like when he tells Jews to judge by the Torah and not the injeel. Allah embraced the decision of Jews to reject the injeel rather than reprimanding them.

The injeel was meant to make lawful for them some of the things that were previously unlawful, either some things they made unlawful for themselves or some things God made unlawful previously like not keeping the Sabbath. And to provide more commentary on the laws of the Torah. So the injeel was just an extension of the Torah.

Well, It is not just Black and white, there are gray areas in between. The fact is there are still Jews and Christians till today and God indeed sent down scriptures to that effect.. so if there are Jews and Unitarian Christians till today that are following their religion because that is the way they truly find convincing then I believe they are the ones their truth will benefit as described Q5:117-119

Q5:119
God will say, “Today, the truthful will benefit from their truthfulness. They will have Gardens with flowing rivers, where they will abide forever. God is pleased with them, and they are pleased with Him. That is the supreme triumph!”

SIRTee15:
Why then do U think Jews will embrace the Quran when they were not punished for rejecting the injeel?
Instead they got the nod from Allah to continue judging with the tawrat.

And Why do U think Christians won't jump on that loop hole created by Allah and also reject Muhammed and hold onto the gospel?

If the issue is all scripture sent by Allah talked about oneness of God, then all I need to do is become a Unitarian Christian and continue with my gospel. I have no business with the Quran.

If anyone intentionally want to reject the message of Islam despite knowing that prophet Muhammad is a true prophet of God by choosing to be Jew, Christian or whatever then they should be ready to face the consequences, They are the real Kuffar. God can not be deceived.

SIRTee15:
According to Muslims, every Prophet sent to mankind came with a revelation that supersede the previous revelations brought by past prophets.
This mean believers must accept the final revelation sent to them until another revelation comes from Allah's messenger.

At least, this is the argument presented by Muhammed to the Jews and Christians when asked why they should follow him.


Muhammed argued since he was the final messenger of Allah, all believers of Allah must abandon their previous books and embrace the Quran.

However, when this argument is scrutinized and critically examined in the Quran itself, it becomes problematic and falls apart.

According to Muslims, Jesus was a messenger of Allah sent to the Jews with a revelation called the injil. This meant Jews during the time of Jesus were meant to follow the injil. Jews after the era of Jesus prior to revelation of Quran were also expected to follow the injil.


Then in the footsteps of the prophets, We sent Jesus, son of Mary, confirming the Torah revealed before him. And We gave him the Gospel containing guidance and light and confirming what was revealed in the Torah—a guide and a lesson to the God-fearing.
Quran 5.46

This shows the injeel supersede the torah for guidance and since Jesus was sent to the Jews, they were expected to be dependent on the INJEEL FOR GUIDANCE- NOT THE TORAH prior to Muhammed appearing on stage.

However, what we find in the Quran is Allah telling the Jews to use the torah for guidance. Allah confirmed in the Quran that the Jews should judge by the Torah- a book that should have been superseded by the Injeel.

But how is it that they come to you for judgement while they have the Torah, in which is the judgement of Allah? Then they turn away, [even] after that; but those are not [in fact] believers.
Quran 5.43
Indeed, We revealed the Torah, containing guidance and light, by which the prophets, who submitted themselves to Allah, made judgments for Jews. So too did the rabbis and scholars judge according to Allah’s Book, with which they were entrusted and of which they were made keepers. So do not fear the people; fear Me! Nor trade my revelations for a fleeting gain. And those who do not judge by what Allah has revealed are ˹truly˺ the disbelievers.
5.44

Now if we harmonise the above Quranic verses, what we deduce is the ff:
The Quran says Jesus was a legitimate prophet to the Jews and he brought the injeel for guidance.
Yet same Quran orders the Jews to retain their dependence on the Torah and not the injeel.
Therefore the Quran contradict itself in denying the supremacy of the injeel over the Torah.

That the Jews rejected Jesus as a prophet or Messiah should not be a reason why Allah would tell them to continue to use the Torah. If the Jews erred by rejecting injeel, should Allah approve such action for the Jews?

The Quran shouldnt validate such error but actually correct them by referring them back to the injeel for guidance.
Otherwise Allah would be seen as approving disobedience of his word and undermining the authority of one of the mighty prophets sent to the Jews.

This presents Allah as either a forgetful God or confused deity who seem contradict his own words or doesnt have adequate insight into his commandments OR takes his commandment with levity.

Muslims are welcomed to defend their Allah and present their case. Pls understand the argument b4 rushing to type. This is a highly cerebral and intellectual theological insight.


The question is this: WHY DID ALLAH TELL THE JEWS TO USE THE TORAH FOR GUIDANCE AND NOT THE INJEEL WHEN THE INJEEL WAS SENT TO THE JEWS AND WAS A REVELATION AFTER THE TORAH?

In as much as prophets came with messages that supersede the previous revelation. The core message of their revelations which is the most important is always believe in God and all your worship should be directed to God and they (the prophets) are just messengers and servants of God. This message was never abrogated and will never be abrogated.

Duet 6:4
Hear, O Israel, The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the ONLY TRUE God, and Jesus Christ, whom YOU HAVE SENT.

Q 21:25
We never sent a messenger before you ˹O Prophet˺ without revealing to him: “There is no god ˹worthy of worship˺ except Me, so worship Me ˹alone˺.

For Jews that live after Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad, the most important thing is do they still hold to the most basic tenet 'Believe in one God and directing all their worship to God' and do they remain Jew base on the fact that that is the only way they find convincing and not that they reject the message of the last 2 prophets out of pride and arrogance or worldly gains.

For Christians the most important thing is believing in one true God and Jesus as the messanger of God and are they Christians because that is the way they truly find convincing and they are not just following man-made doctrines and not that they reject the message of the last prophet out of arrogance or because of worldly gains. You can check Qur'an 5:117 till the end of the chapter for context.



Q2:62
Indeed, the believers, Jews, Christians, and Sabians—whoever ˹truly˺ believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good will have their reward with their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor will they grieve.

Q5:48
We have revealed to you this Book with the truth, as a confirmation of previous Scriptures and a supreme authority on them. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their desires over the truth that has come to you. To each of you We have ordained a code of law and a way of life. If Allah had willed, He would have made you one community, but His Will is to test you with what He has given ˹each of˺ you. So compete with one another in doing good. To Allah you will all return, then He will inform you ˹of the truth˺ regarding your differences.

This mancity downfall is getting comical now.

At least all their fake fans will disperse now

malali:
Nlfpmod

Bigot Alert

Repeat Violations 2,3 and 7.

Please ban and make nairaland civil again

On thread like this, you will just have to leave them and let them masturbate on the thread all they want...

Damn!!

We can't be dropping point against Fulham..

MaxInDHouse:
Next time learn to have manners i don't insult because i know it doesn't speak well of a true believer but when talking about errors authors of your Quran has no right to dabble into the history of Israelites claiming what the Israelites penned down in their own scriptures is wrong!

Imagine, you are speaking about manners?
U don't insult? Really, maybe you should go back to our conversation on this thread and see who was the first to start throwing insults around.

You can believe whatever you want to believe about the errors in the Qur'an. I can't have a conversation with a dishonest fellow.

You have proven yourself to be very dishonest and all those smiling emojis are just gimmicks.

If you are not daft, you will know I can do the same with ur Bible. You use your common sense to know Luke calling Elizabeth daughter of Aaron does not mean she is literally a daughter of Aaron but applying same common sense to the Qur'an is where you draw the line.

MaxInDHouse:
YES!

I believe your Quran was fabricated by people who don't know the history of the Israelites but wanted to attach themselves where they do not belong.

Anything that make you sleep at night..

MaxInDHouse:
Usual attitude whenever you're corrected after saying you don't know why the writers of your Quran called Mary the sister of Aaron!

Lol

Guy I can't help you further. Believe whatever you want to believe.

Even if I say I don't know why she was called Sister of Aaron, What you can not say is that the author believed She was sister of Moses and Aaron except if you are a dishonest person.

The Qur'an verses I quoted indicates the author is very much aware there are lots of Prophet in-between Moses and Jesus. But if you want to disregard that and believe the author confused both Marys. You are welcome to believe whatever you want to believe.

MaxInDHouse:
And i'm telling you why:

Muhammad was never inspired he was doing cut and join regarding what he heard from the religion of Khadijat his sugar mummy.

So if you don't know something there's no need trying to defend it jọọ.

Don't worry

You can believe whatever you want to believe.

I can not have a discussion with a dimwit.

MaxInDHouse:
As your imams twisted it after finding out that there is no way Aaron could be Mary's or Elizabeth's brother.
Please everyone can read the Quran it's what's written we want to talk about not how your imams twisted it to suit their lies!

Here is it again:

So all the verses I quoted about how there are prophets in between Moses and Jesus flew over your head? I know a dishonest fellow when I see one.

You can believe whatever you want to believe.

Agenda must agend.

MaxInDHouse:
This is what is found written in your Quran:

"Oh sister of Aaron, your father was not a man of evil nor was your mother unchaste" Quran 19:28

Anyone with a common sense that have read the Qur'an as a whole would know the author was not claiming Mary the mother Jesus was a sister of Aaron in the literal sense.
I will understand if this is coming from someone that have been a Christian all his/her life that just read Qur'an 19:28 in isolation, but coming from an exmuslim is what I don't understand, so It is either you were an ignorant Muslim or you are just a dishonest JW.

Here are verses that suggests there are gaps between Moses and Jesus, and Moses and Aaron could not have been Jesus uncles

Q5:44
Indeed, We revealed the Torah, containing guidance and light, by which the PROPHETS, who submitted themselves to Allah, made judgments for Jews. So too did the rabbis and scholars judge according to Allah’s Book, with which they were entrusted and of which they were made keepers. So do not fear the people; fear Me! Nor trade my revelations for a fleeting gain. And those who do not judge by what Allah has revealed are ˹truly˺ the disbelievers

Q5:46
Then in the footsteps of the PROPHETS, We sent Jesus, son of Mary, confirming the Torah revealed BEFORE him. And We gave him the Gospel containing guidance and light and confirming what was revealed in the Torah—a guide and a lesson to the God-fearing.

Q2:87
Indeed, We gave Moses the Book and sent AFTER him SUCCESSIVE MESSENGERS. And We gave Jesus, son of Mary, clear proofs and supported him with the holy spirit. Why is it that every time a messenger comes to you with something you do not like, you become arrogant, rejecting some and killing others?

It is very clear the author believe Torah was revealed to Moses and tons of prophets, Rabbis, Judges used the same torah before Jesus was given the Injeel. Do you know how many Jewish prophets are mention in the Qur'an? To now conclude the author thought Moses was an uncle of Jesus is a conclusion I can't comprehend.

When they saw her with a baby in her arms and she was unmarried , The term "sister of Aaron" was used there to draw her attention to the piety and righteousness she should have and the piety and righteousness of her parents.

Why they called her "sister of Aaron" is something I honestly don't know. The author of Qur'an made it known that Mary used to work in the temple as a consecrated virgin, performing tasks such as weaving, sewing and the likes. It is possible the term was just a title for virgins working in the temple at the time, I really don't know. But what I know is that the author did not believe Moses and Aaron were Jesus uncles.

MaxInDHouse:
According to Luke Elizabeth and Zechariah are both from the tribe of Levi so they were both descendants of Aaron the brother of Moses both descendants of Levi.

So your prophet lied Aaron was not the brother of Elizabeth, Mary or anyhow you guys wish to twist it but he is the ancestor of Zechariah and Elizabeth!

You can apply common sense to know that Luke referring to Elizabeth as of the daughters of Aaron does not mean she was a literal daughter of Aaron but applying same common sense to the Qur'an text is where you draw the line.

MaxInDHouse:
As for Khadijat history has it that she was Catholic!

Which history has it that Khadijah was a Catholic? The one concocted in your kingdom hall?

Amorin don dey collect front and back.

Man U downfall...Things I love to see...

MaxInDHouse:
Where is Elizabeth found in your Quran?

Ọmọ your prophet can't know the history of Jews who lived more than 600 years before his birth so if you're pitying him to make him your prophet i don't accept someone a prophet out of pity.


Khadijat was a Catholic who used to travel to Rome and other trade centers!

Elizabeth is referenced in the Qur'an as the wife of Zacharia, the mother of John though not mentioned by name. You should know that as an exmuslim. Except if you were an ignorant Muslim that knew close to nothing about the Deen.

My question is do you think Elizabeth was Moses niece when Luke or whosoever wrote the gospel of Luke called her daughter of Aaron? I don't know why you are evading the question.

Why not bring evidence that Khadijah was a Catholic that used to travel to Rome. Or you are just going to continue pulling claims out of ur ass?

I can see you have revert back to using your fake smiling emoji. Awon fake peace loving people.

MaxInDHouse:
Continue deceiving yourself!

Your Arab man can't know the history of Jews who lived more than 600 years before his birth so he surely heard Catholics when talking about what is written in the Bible because his sugar mummy Khadijat was a Catholic and he was one of her boy boy escorting the wealthy woman before he was taken by the woman who wanted young blood!

Is this route you want to take? Disparaging my prophet? Is that the kind of manners they teach you in your God forsaken kingdoms?

Bring the evidence that Khadijah was a Catholic, and the Catholic church taught out Prophet what he knew of the Jewish history.

Can you now answer the question

Do you think Luke made a mistake calling Elizabeth daughter of Aaron?

MaxInDHouse:
Who else bears Aaron in the Bible nah?

Your Muhammad kept fabricating stories from what he heard in the Catholic Church that's why you people now think your Quran is authentic shey?

I beg who is Aaron in your Quran?

Lol

So our Prophet was a member of Catholic Church? Tell me more.

Aaron was the brother of Moses in the Qur'an.


In Luke 1:5 where Elizabeth was said to be daughter of Aaron. Do you take that as Elizabeth being niece of Moses?

MaxInDHouse:
Is it not what your imam says that will address who the Aaron is?

From the Bible Aaron is the brother of Moses so it doesn't add up!

Let's leave Imams out of this for now.

Do you think the author was confusing both Marys?

And was that your take when you were a Muslim?

MaxInDHouse:
Quote your Quran!

Q 19:27
Then she returned to her people, carrying him. They said ˹in shock˺, “O Mary! You have certainly done a horrible thing!

19:28
O sister of Aaron! Your father was not an indecent man, nor was your mother unchaste.”

Are you telling us the author here was confusing Mary mother of Jesus with Mary the sister of Moses and Aaron?

And that was your take when you were a Muslim?

MaxInDHouse:
Quote it out let everyone see what your Quran says about Moses, Aaron and Mary the mother of Jesus!

Are you telling us the author of the Qur'an thought both Moses and Aaron were uncles of Jesus?

I'm not expecting this argument from an exmuslim.