oluwaseyi0:


Not today, not tomorrow not this season

It will happen
The league is Arsenal's this season.

Mancity tears today...

I'll be there Insha Allah.

AbuTwins:
God is not a man! Anthropomorphism is false!

Numbers 23:19:
"God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?"

1 Samuel 15:29:
"He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind; for he is not a human being, that he should change his mind."

Hosea 11:9:
"I will not carry out my fierce anger, nor will I devastate Ephraim again. For I am God, and not a human being—the Holy One among you. I will not come against their cities."

Isaiah 40:18
To whom will you liken God? To what image will you compare Him?

Isaiah 44:6-20
Thus says the LORD, the King and Redeemer of Israel, the LORD of Hosts: “I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God but Me. Who then is like Me? Let him say so! Let him declare his case before Me, since I established an ancient people. Let him foretell the things to come, and what is to take place...

Jesus couldn't foretell the hour in Matthew 24:36, Mark 13:32 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Isaiah 55:8-9:
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD. "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts."

Psalm 50:21:
"These things you have done, and I have been silent; you thought that I was one like yourself. But now I rebuke you and lay the charge before you."

Job 9:32-33:
"For he is not a man, as I am, that I might answer him, that we should come to trial together. There is no arbiter between us, who might lay his hand on us both."

So God is not man and can never become man!

God does not change:

Psalm 55:19 -
"God will hear and answer them—Even the one who sits enthroned from of old— Selah. With whom there is no change, And who do not fear God."

Malachi 3:6 -
"For I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed."

So when did the Lord Change?

These are from the Prophets God sent.

Watch them come to this thread and start using their own logic, the word of one philosopher, or one church father that God did not send to explain the nature of God to us.. how God is 3, yet 1; How God is not a man yet he became a man.

SIRTee15:


It's obvious U are ashamed of your Qur'an.

U cannot answer a simple question. A question that is already answered in your quran.
Your Koran has the answer to my question but U are too ashamed to say it.

This shows not only are U ashamed of the Qur'an but U are embarrassed by what's written in the Qur'an.

I will report u to your colleagues... Ohyoudidn't, expanse, Qasim6, antichristian

Your friend here Abutwins is embarrassed by what's written in the Qur'an.
I have asked him a question lifted from the Qur'an but he's too ashamed of the Qur'an to answer it.

A Muslim who is ashamed of the Qur'an cannot be called Muslim. He's left Islam.

AbuTwin redeem yourself and answer my question. Look into your Qur'an and give me my answer.

If Jesus is indeed is the son of God, should he be worshipped?
If Allah has a son, should the son be worshipped?

Answer the question.

What is it with the If?
God says he has no son, so why waste your time with the ifs?

Q 21:26
And they say: the Merciful has adopted a son; glorified is He, but they are honoured servants.

The term "son of God" is just honorific title. That's how the Jews understood it, it's the pagan Romans that took the term to another level with Jesus.

Leykars:
Na wa ooo....this is something!!!

Hey bro!

You sent me a mail, unfortunately the email is not functioning again.

You can reach me here

ohkaysquare5@gmail.com

Payoneer account for sale.

Fully verified Skrill account for sale.

mesmer:
Freelancer PayPal withdrawal needed( Upwork, Fiverr, Bookrun and the likes)

Clean (FNF and from Balance PayPal) needed

Note: No GnS or card funds.... I will never pay for GnS or card funds.

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Chat me up on WhatsApp

Do you do PayPal withdrawal (Fiverr) as low as $38?
If you do, what is the rate?

SIRTee15:



Answer the question on preservation of Qur'an.

I don't have time for your confabulated miracle of the Koran or tales by moonlight in it.

Are Muslims reading the Koran dictated by Muhammed or not. That's what at stake here.

You guys are shameless as I said earlier.

You can't even have this kind of conversation about your scripture.

All the names mentioned in all these narration Abubakr, Zaid bin Thabit, Uthman, Hafsa, Umar they are all companion of the Prophet.

What you guys have is an unknown Matthew and Luke plagiarising an unknown Mark and another disputed John writing an account that does not conform with the oral tradition. But Una use faith carry am.

"You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye".

SIRTee15:


Answer the questions and stop being emotional.
That's how you abandoned the previous thread when U couldn't answer the questions anymore.

That bible is false doesn't make Qur'an true. You still have to prove the truthfulness of the Qur'an.
The best for me if I find the bible false is to be atheist and not convert to islam.
So answer the question.

Lol

Stop feeling yourself.
I saw your hogwash shit load of rebuttal, you must have copied it from one anti-Islam website.

Been busy lately. When I have your time I will send your rebuttal to the bin where it belong.

How are you doing?

TenQ:
Dear Mr Qasim6 , youngdroly , Bliss52 , Qasim6 , truthday , Almunjid , hayzedibd , ahmedio2017 , Ahmadusmanu and Harnny

[s]Questions:
1. What was wrong with the Quran of Abu Bakr given to Hafsa to warrant editing by Zaid Zaid bin Thabit the second time?
2. There were four reciters of the Quran attested by Mohammed himself, why were none of them consulted in writing the Quran of Abu Bakr and later Uthman but instead Zaid Zaid bin Thabit was commissioned for the job?
3. Do you now agree that the first and second edition of the Arabic Quran were different?[/s]

Is your silence an indication of Lack of knowledge or Ignorance or fear of Revelation of long-held misconception about the Quran?

Details on the first page!

You guys are just shameless!

With all those forgeries, all those interpolations, manuscripts not matching, couple with anonymous authors that riddled your holey forgery Bible, yet you have the audacity to question the veracity of the preservation of the Qur'an.

Incase you don't know, we have manuscript that date to the life time of the Prophet. You have nada from the first 3 century of Christainity.

Have some shame bro.

I pity your life!

Let's go yanited
Fucking best team in the world

COYG!!!

SIRTee15:

We know Matthew wrote the gospel of Matthew because it was quoted extensively in the Didache, a cathetist used Jewish Christians in the mid first century.
And Papias one of the apostolic fathers who met the disciples confirmed Mathew wrote a gospel to the Jewish Christians.

Stop deceiving yourself!

Non of the Canonical gospels was written by eye witness.

I believe Matthew did write a gospel, but he wrote in Hebrew. The Matthew we have now was written in Greek and it's forged using Mark and Q.

SIRTee15:

By stories copied from forged gospel books. U can deny it but the facts are bare.

Quran is a forged book my friend. A book written by someone who has no idea what he's talking about. It doesn't matter if it's Muhammed or Allah that wrote it.

I will force U to see the forgery in your book by the time we done here.

I'm telling you, you don't want to go to this 'Quran is a forged book'. It will only expose how ignorant you are of the content of the Qur'an. Cos I will make sure I over choke you with evidence that you won't be able to use that argument again unless if you're dishonest.

If you want to know what forgeries and plagiarism is, check your Bible.

SIRTee15:

Tell me who is dhu al-qarnayn and do U believe someone can sleep for 300 years.

I believe dhu al-qarnayn is Cyrus the Great

you can't seriously be asking me if I believe people can sleep for 300yrs. This kind of question should be coming from atheist.

SIRTee15:

The synoptic and John's gospel. because these were written by eye witness. Others are called apocryphal because they are not eye witness account. U are on your own if you choose to swallow the tales in them.

Do you know Jesus quoted from Sirach in Gospel according to Matthew, and the Jews consider Sirach to be apocryphal.

Was Jesus quoting a forgery?

SIRTee15:


Intellectual dishonesty in display. Muhammed has no spirit of God on him
The spirit of God is the same as presence of God. The spirit of God is what depicts his presence.
Do U guys even believe in that, do Muslims believe God can enter his creation?
Be very careful what U defend b4 U leave Islam.

Next passage.

Isaiah 42 2-3
“He will not call out or shout aloud,
Nor make His voice heard in the street.
“A broken reed He will not break [off]
And a dimly burning wick He will not extinguish- He will not harm those who are weak and suffering
He will faithfully bring forth justice.


Let's move
I know Muhammed killed and shed blood during war. But did he do harm during the time of peace. Did he harm the vulnerable or the weak. Was he entirely gentle throughout his ministry.

This how the Qur'an describe prophet Muhammad.

And by the Mercy of Allah, you dealt with them gently. And had you been severe and harsh-hearted, they would have broken away from about you; so pass over (their faults), and ask (Allah’s) Forgiveness for them; and consult them in the affairs. Then when you have taken a decision, put your trust in Allah, certainly, Allah loves those who put their trust (in Him).Q3:159

"He was not unseemly or obscene in his speech, nor was he loud-voiced in the market, nor did he return evil with evil, but would forgive and pardon." This was reported from Aisha

Even before his Prophethood, his gentle and kind nature was attested to. He was known for being generous, patient, truthful, and sincere. The people of Makkah admired his noble character and gave him the title al-Ameen (the trustworthy).


I know some christain apologists will say but he was a man of war.
Moses too was described as being meek and gentle in Numbers 12:3 and yet he ordered 3000 killed in EX 32:28.

SIRTee15:


Tawhid doesn't make sense.

It's a false doctrine never taught by Muhammed and not in the Koran.
Muhammed never attributed the concept of divine simplicity to Allah. He described Allah as a composite being, a god made of up of body parts.
Muhammed never said the entirety of Allah is one, he simply said Allah is one God.
Muslims are the ones going about saying everything about Allah is one, Muhammed never said that.

Muhammed made it clear Allah has a face, 2 right hand, shin and eyes. Allah has a shape and occupies space because he sits above his throne.

Now It doesn't matter if the shin of Allah is real or fake or unlike his creature or unlike anything imagined by humans. The fact is believers will recognise Allah on the last day by his shin whatever the shin is.

So the question remain Is the shin of Allah one with Allah?
No muslim can answer the question.
One of them came here and said Allah is a spirit/invisible in an attempt to fix the problematic Tawhid.
Awon oniro.

If the shin of Allah isn't one with Allah, then I need to know how Tawhid makes sense.

On the last day, Allah will appear to the believers in an unknown shape, they will not recognise him until he shows them his shin, then Muslims will bow and worship Allah.
My question remain, can I worship the shin of Allah?
If I can't worship the shin of Allah, then Tawhid contradict the hadiths.

Muslims should fix Tawhid b4 poking nose into trinity they don't even understand.

Our God is one, our God is not 3 in 1. That's what prophet Muhammad teaches Us, that's what we believe.

Councils were not held 300 yrs after the prophet to decide that for us. It is clearly revealed in the Qur'an.

Ask 200 different Christains about the concept of trinity and you are likely going to get 200 different answers. Do you think the concept of God needs to be that complicated, That it can not be understand by every Tom, Dick and Harry?

SIRTee15:


Then explain when did the Jews acknowledge Jesus as Messiah according to your koran.

Surah 5.72

. Assuredly they have disbelieved who say, "God is the Messiah, son of Mary," whereas the Messiah himself proclaimed: "O Children of Israel! Worship God, my Lord and your Lord. " Whoever associates partners with God, God has surely made Paradise forbidden to him, and his refuge is the Fire. And the wrongdoers will have no helpers.

This particular verse you quoted is addressing christains believe.

This verse is just telling us what Jesus preached to the Israelites in contrast to what christains believe.

Maybe the verse you wanted to quote is Q4:157, which I believe is addressing their claim in the Talmud.

SIRTee15:


Gospel of John was written in the first century, stop confabulating.
Scholars date it to 90AD, no scholar put it at 110 AD.

We know this because the writer John the apostle died 99 AD in his early 90s. He was the youngest of the
disciples of Jesus so it's no surprise he lived into the late first century AD.
How do we know John wrote the gospel of John?
because we have the muratorian fragment that confirmed this.

The fourth Gospel is that of John, one of the disciples. When his fellow-disciples and bishops entreated him, he said, “Fast ye now with me for the space of three days, and let us recount to each other whatever may be revealed to each of us.” On the same night it was revealed to Andrew, one of the apostles, that John should narrate all things in his own name as they called them to mind.

What marvel is it, then, that John brings forward these several things so constantly in his epistles also, saying in his own person, “What we have seen with our eyes, and heard with our ears, and our hands have handled, that have we written.” For thus he professes himself to be not only the eye-witness, but also the hearer; and besides that, the historian of all the wondrous facts concerning the Lord in their order

So the gospel of John is valid because it was written by an eye witness who was a disciple of jesus and confirmed by other eye witnesses one of whom is Andrew- disciple of Jesus.

John 21
24 This is the disciple who testifies to these things and who wrote them down. We know that his testimony is true

Unlike the tales by moonlight such as Jesus talking at birth seen in forged gospels the Qur'an copied. We know they are works of forgery because the authors attributed to the works Thomas and James couldn't have written the book.

Do you mean every other things found in apocryphal gospels that are not in canonical gospels are false?

If you want to believe the gospel according to John is accurate base on faith that's fine, but don't tell me it's logical because it doesn't conform with the oral tradition, the theme is different from the other gospels and it was written late and some scholars date it to around 110.

SIRTee15:

U just dancing in circles to avoid the obvious - Koran has no idea what Messiah is all about.
Running to the talmud won't safe U.

Why would I need to dance around anything. I'm holding the truth, you are the one caressing forgeries.

SIRTee15:

First things first. Show me the meaning of Messiah in your Koran or hadiths.
I don't want your definition and pls don't go to the bible or Jewish texts.
From your Koran, tell me the meaning of Messiah.

What do you mean by the meaning of messiah? Have you forgotten Hebrew, Aramaic, Arabic are all sister languages.

Do you mean the literal meaning or what is expected of Jesus as the messiah?

The fact that you christains change the meaning to dying and rising man-god does not change the actual meaning.

SIRTee15:

Quran mentioned Messiah 11 times, it's gross incompetence to keep using a word or terminology U don't know it's meaning.
Tell me the meaning is Messiah according to the Qur'an.

Is this a joke?
Qur'an that was revealed in Arabic does not know the meaning of messiah?

SIRTee15:


u not answering my question. who was the first muslim? Muhammed claimed he was the first muslim but others has been calling themselves muslims before him. Moses also said he was the first muslim.
So I'm throwing the question at u. clarify the contradiction...who was the first muslim.

Say (O Muhammad): Lo! I am commanded to worship Allah, making religion pure for Him (only). And I am commanded to be the first of those who are muslims (surrender unto Him).
Quran 39:11-12
He hath no partner. This am I commanded, and I am first of those who surrender (unto Him).
Quran 6:163

Moses
When Moses came at the appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he asked, “My Lord! Reveal Yourself to me so I may see You.” Allah answered, “You cannot see Me! But look at the mountain. If it remains firm in its place, only then will you see Me.” When his Lord appeared to the mountain, He levelled it to dust and Moses collapsed unconscious. When he recovered, he cried, “Glory be to You! I turn to You in repentance and I am the first of the believers ”
Quran 7.143

Do the verses say any of Prophet Muhammad or Prophet Musa is the first Muslim among mankind?

All prophets are to be an example to the people they are calling to the message of God, so they are supposed to be the first to believe before calling others to what they believe in.

Abraham was the first to believe in his time before inviting others. Q 2:131

Moses was the first to believe in his time before calling others. Q 7:143

Muhammad was asked to be the first to believe before inviting others. Q 6:14

SIRTee15:


Stop all these intellectual dishonesty. I'm not interested in any vague interpretation.

There different spirits mentioned in the bible including spirit of wisdom, understanding, knowledge, counsel.
There's also unclean spirit and spirit of evil.

Isaiah 42 is talking about spirit of God. The manifestation of the spirit of God empowers a prophet to prophecy and speak for God.
Go back and read the numbers 11 U quoted starting from v 24.

Then the LORD came down in the cloud and spoke with him, and he took some of the power of the Spirit that was on him and put it on the seventy elders. When the Spirit rested on them, they prophesied—but did not do so again.

The Koranic verses U brought here mentioned a spirit accompanying an angel. Whose spirit? Did it rest on Muhammed?
Angels don't have the holy spirit. They are spiritual beings themselves and bible called them ministering spirits.

The 2nd verse mentioned holy spirit. As far as I'm aware in islam, the holy spirit is angel Gabriel. So don't know how that relates. Isaiah 42 is not talking about angel Gabriel.

Pls bring an explicit statement that said the spirit of God rested on Muhammed. Not someone sending an unknown spirit thru an angel.
One of the problem christians have with Muhammed prophethood is that there's no evidence he spoke to God directly nor did the spirit of God rest on him. So how did he receive his revelations?

We don't have a problem with Jesus being servant of God. Peter confirmed Jesus to be servant of God.
Read about hypostasis union.

Acts 3
13 The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. You handed him over to be killed, and you disowned him before Pilate, though he had decided to let him go.

26 When God raised up his servant, he sent him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways.”

A Christian talking about intellectual dishonesty.

If that interpretation is vague to you, then you need to check yourself.

I showed how God putting his spirit on him simply means the chosen servant will be a prophet.

I showed you a Bible verse and a Qur'an verse that attest to that. What else do you want?

SIRTee15:


Of course, U have read the bible and Talmud plus historical knowledge to know it's stupid for Jews to have killed their Messiah.

My friend, show me where it says in your Koran that the Jews rejected Jesus as Messiah.


Abi is this not your Koran affirming Israelites believe in Jesus as the Messiah.

They surely disbelieve who say: Lol Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers.

Messiah was mentioned 11 times in your Koran, no where was it mentioned as a form or mockery or ridicule.
According to the Koran, Jesus was given the name Messiah from birth. That means his mum was meant to call him Messiah while growing up. What absurdity.
I can imagine Mary going about in Galilee telling people the name of her son messiah I doubt she will last a day b4 being stoned to death for blasphemy.

[And mention] when the angels said, "O Mary, indeed Allāh gives you good tidings of a word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary - distinguished in this world and the Hereafter and among those brought near [to Allāh].

Whoever wrote your Koran either Muhammed or Allah goofed big time about Messiah. He had no idea what Messiah even meant.

Calm down

I wanted to type 'Have you checked the Talmud? '

In the Talmud they make fun of Jesus virgin birth, they reject him as the messiah and maintain he was rightly killed for blasphemy and for practicing sorcery he learned from Egypt.

In addition
a crucified messiah is an oxymoron to them. Because the prophecies about the messiah did not say anything about him getting killed.

SIRTee15:


Who was the first Muslim according to Qur'an?

Option 1. Muhammed
Say (O Muhammad): Lo! I am commanded to worship Allah, making religion pure for Him (only). And I am commanded to be the first of those who are muslims (surrender unto Him).
Quran 39:11-12
He hath no partner. This am I commanded, and I am first of those who surrender (unto Him).
Quran 6:163

Option 2. Noah
And if you turn away [from my advice] then no payment have I asked of you. My reward is only from Allah, and I have been commanded to be of the Muslims."
Quran 10:72

Option 3. Lot and his family
And We found not within them other than a [single] house of Muslims.
Quran 51:36

Option 3 Abraham
And strive for Allah with the striving due to Him. He has chosen you and has not placed upon you in the religion any difficulty. [It is] the religion of your father, Abraham. Allah named you "Muslims" before [in former scriptures] and in this [revelation] that the Messenger may be a witness over you and you may be witnesses over the people. So establish prayer and give zakah and hold fast to Allah. He is your protector; and excellent is the protector, and excellent is the helper.
Quran 22:78

Option 4. The disciples of Jesus
And when I inspired the disciples, (saying): Believe in Me and in My messenger, they said: We believe. Bear witness that we have surrendered (unto Thee) "we are muslims"
Quran 5:111

Option 5. Moses
When Moses came at the appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he asked, “My Lord! Reveal Yourself to me so I may see You.” Allah answered, “You cannot see Me! But look at the mountain. If it remains firm in its place, only then will you see Me.” When his Lord appeared to the mountain, He levelled it to dust and Moses collapsed unconscious. When he recovered, he cried, “Glory be to You! I turn to You in repentance and I am the first of the believers ”
Quran 7.143


Choose only one option. Note there's negative marking- guessing is frowned upon in theology.
If U don't know, say U don't know

Stop embarrassing yourself.

Muslim simply means one who submit to God.
The reason we always claim all Prophets are Muslims.
Except you want to tell me all those people those verses mentioned did not submit to God.

Dsimmer:


Jesus isn't a servant of God in the sense of master and slave. Likewise humans. IFA calls Yoruba omoluabi for example which means the children of God. Yoruba would say Eni bini, laajo. If Humans are children of God , they should display goodness as well.

When you see the word servant, it means an act of service. We do know that Jesus represent an act of service to the world.

As for the paedophilic criminal Mohammed, he's a trashy criminal who knows next to nothing except sex and terrorism. A lunatic who drank camel urine while imagining a perverted brothel in heaven.

Ok.
Thanks for your contribution!

SIRTee15:


Ok, Let's start with verse 1 and then move. I'm sure U will gas out b4 we get to that favourite verse U desperate for.

Isaiah 42
“Here is my servant, whom I uphold,
my chosen one in whom I delight;
I will put my Spirit on him,

Show me how this verse relates to Muhammed. Show me where Muhammed or Koran or hadiths ever said your prophet had the spirit of God inside him.
Do U even believe in the spirit of God as described in the bible- pls I'm not talking about trinity, don't go there.

Meanwhile see the Arabs beautiful kids singing to Jesus.
What a lovely sight to behold.
Obviously some people thought all arabs are Muslims.

Here is my servant, whom I uphold

I don't think I need to show you how Muhammad is a servant/slave of God.
You all know how we Muslims pride ourselves as servant/slave of God.
The word translated as servant in that verse "abdi" which is the the same Arabic word abd.

The question is are you christains comfortable with calling Jesus servant/slave of God?

My chosen one in whom I delight

One of the well known title of Prophet Muhammad in Islamic tradition is Al-Mustapha (the chosen one)

He is the chosen one in the sense that He is the seal of Prophethood.

He is the only Prophet sent to all mankind, other prophets before him were only sent to some localities.

I will put my spirit upon him

Ibn Ezra who was a Jewish commentator said This means a 'Prophetic Spirit' which means this chosen one will be a prophet.

Numbers 11:29 But Moses replied, “Are you jealous for my sake? I wish that all the LORD’s people were prophets and that the LORD would put his Spirit on them!”

Q 16:2 He (Allah) sends down the angels with the Spirit by His command, upon whom He wills of His servants: “Give warning that there is no god but Me, and fear Me.”

Q 16:102 Say, “The Holy Spirit has brought it down from your Lord, truthfully, in order to stabilise those who believe, and as guidance and good news for those who submit.”

SIRTee15:


Since we talking of forgery and divine revelation.
I saw this and decided to share.

I'm sure you did not look up those verses, the least you could do is to look up those verses so you won't embarrass yourself badly.

I know how badly you want to show errors in the Qur'an to save face with the errors of the Bible.

the Qur'an y'all claim was copied from the Bible, somehow avoid the errors there in.
I know Christainity is a blind faith religion, but at least muster some strength to use your cognitive skill once in a while.

SIRTee15:

Have U read Julius Africanus to understand the thalus statement in context?


Good thing u learning about historicity of Jesus outside of the biblical narrative.
Read the letter of king abgar to emperor Tiberius for more historicity.

The writer of Gospel according to Matthew claimed there was a zombie apocalypse after the alleged crucifixion.
Do you believe that really happened or was it just some special effect just to enhance the story?

If you believe that happened, how did the other gospel writers missed that? And why did we not get that story from non-christain historians?

I really don't need any historian validation to believe Jesus walked this earth. Qur'an is enough for me.

SIRTee15:

Reputation or bondage to blind faith.

If anyone is practicing blind faith, then that honour goes to you Christains.

You are the ones that compiled forged books as scripture.

You are the ones that have interpolations in scripture. Like the story of the adulterous woman that Jesus save, 1 John 5:7

You are the ones that believe in a doctrine that was stamped by men (the Bishops VOTED at the council of nicea on divinity of Jesus.) Despite a clear warning from Jesus in Matthew 15:9
In vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.

SIRTee15:

Explain to me how on earth could the Jews claim they killed their Messiah.
Yes your Koran wrote the Jews said they killed their Messiah. Explain how's that even possible?
Whoever wrote that surely doesn't know what he's talking about.

Have checked the Talmud?
They were saying that in a derogatory manner, not that they truly believe Jesus is the messiah

You really don't know what you are talking about.

SIRTee15:

🥱🥱🥱🥱. What's divine revelation in telling us Jesus spoke at birth. Something we Christians read and rejected as unreliable. How can something well known be called divine revelation
How can we believe Jesus spoke at birth when nobody said it or wrote about it for 100 years of christianity. None of the apostles mentioned it, Mary when alive didn't mention it, Jesus didn't preach it.
But somebody wrote about it in 150AD and attributed it to James.
We outrightly rejected it but unfortunately for U guys,
Muhammed put am for Koran, U guys have to accept it as true. Or U get choice ?

How many times do we need to nail it to your heads that Quran is the word of God and not Muhammad's

What information do you guys have from the original Apostles and Mary?

You rejected books that were written in 150AD but you believe gospel of John that was written around 110AD, you are a Joker!

Straybullet:


It must hurt so bad that with all the blood letting mohammed and his followers perpetrated, they're struggling to gain the traction of a man that was a peasant, never had any organisation formed, and virtually unknown.


You must be wishing you had his secret as mohammeds warmongering is unable to match up...

Ok!
Thanks for the contribution.

SIRTee15:

Again another gbagaun. The first person we know that wrote about Jesus was thallus the Samaritan who described the events of the cruxifixion around 50s AD. Ben mara sarapion wrote about Jesus in 73AD.
Josephus' works was in late 90s AD.
So who first wrote about Christ.

We only know about what Thallus wrote because Theophilus of Antioch quoted him around 180.
With the reputation of early Christian writers with forgeries, I'm not sure we can trust them since thallus work on Jesus did not survive.

Mara bar Serapion only mentioned in a letter the execution of a certain wise king of the jew.
And there is uncertainty as to when he wrote the letter. It is dated between 73AD to before the 3rd century.

The forged testimonium flavianum still remain the earliest source because we know with certainty Josephus wrote in 93/94.

SIRTee15:

Seriously coming from a Muslim whose knowledge about Christ came from a forger 630 years after chrsit lived. U refuse to believe someone that wrote about Christ 100 years after his death but swallowed the tales of a desert forger who lived 600 yrs after the events he described.
U go fear the way Muslims reason. Islam can never be reconciled with common sense, it's an infinite impossibility.

Do you think Prophet Muhammad was forging the Bible when he did not go with Haman as an aide to Persian King and placed him as a chief of Pharaoh?

Do you think he was forging the Bible when he placed mount Judi rather than Mountains of Ararat as the resting place of Noah's ark?

Do you think he was forging the Bible when He did not make mistakes of calling Egyptian kings at the time Abraham and Joseph Pharaoh like the Bible did?

Do you think he was forging the Bible when he made a bold claim that the body of Pharaoh of Moses was preserved, mind you the bodies of the preserved Pharaohs were found in the 18th century.

If you want to know what forgeries look like, it is what Writers of Gospel according to Mathew and Luke did with Marks gospel.
Those guys will be behind bars for forgeries in modern day.

It is the reputation of the Qur'an that make us trust the Qur'an 100%

SIRTee15:

It's ok to live in delusion, U won't be the first and not the last. I'm happy to cure your delusion of Isaiah 42 if U oblige me. Bur as usual U will run away.

I will be glad, I have been looking for that Christain that will tell me when Jesus made the Arabs rejoice and sing for joy.

SIRTee15:

The biggest work of forgery ever known to mankind is the Koran. How Muslims believe that it's from God is a mystery to me.
The whole of story about jesus in your Koran is not any divine revelation. They are stories in our apocryphal gospels. Stories of Mary, jesus talking at birth and jesus creating life are all in our gospel books written 100 years after the said events.
Go and read the infancy gospel of Thomas and protoevangelium of James, all the stories are there.

These are gospel books we rejected because we know they are forgeries.
Now a forger forging from a forgery book into his own forged book only to turn around to lie that Allah told him the stories. U Muslims are lost.

Non of the story of Jesus you have is divine revelation, they are forgeries upon forgeries upon forgeries.

Like I said, it's the reputation of the Qur'an that make us trust it 100%

SIRTee15:

Tell me when did Jews start calling Ezra the son of God. because your Koran claimed they do.
Let's see the religion of zero common sense and 100% blind faith.

I don't think Uzair is Ezra.

Emptyad is falling today.

Let's go gunners.

Shitty 1 - 3 Arsenal.

SIRTee15:


Ask Bart Erhman.

Hahaha this one think our only historical evidence of Jesus is Josephus. U are far behind, the rest don overtake u.

Tacitus a Roman senator spoke about Jesus
Mara bar sarapion a stoic philosopher spoke about Jesusin 73 AD.
Pliny and Suetonius both Roman historian spoke about Jesus.
Thallus a samaritan historian wrote about the events that happened the night Jesus was crucified.
Roman emperor Trajan wrote about Jesus Christ.
Phlegon of Tralles AA historian wrote about Jesus.
Both the Jewish Talmud and Mishnah wrote about Jesus.
Even Josephus wrote about the death of James the just the brother of Jesus Christ.

There's a reason all biblical scholars including atheist admits Jesus of Nazareth is a real person.

The fact that the first non Christains source we have is forgery even cast more shadow on Christainity.

All these historians you mentioned were all born years after Jesus already left and non of them wrote in anything lesser than 100 years after the event. So I can argue they were only parroting the believe of christains around them, I'm sorry, it doesn't help your case.

I already believe Jesus walked this earth, I don't need convincing. You should try using all of these against mythicist.

SIRTee15:

We don't need a dubious character in a desert forging the works of our apocryphal gospels to attest to historicity of Jesus.

A dubious character u say? A whole chosen servant of God in Isaiah 42.

You don't want to go to all this forging accusation, that is something peculiar with Christainity. It is silly and unwise, don't go there!

SIRTee15:

When I say U guys know nothing about Christianity, U came here foaming in the mouth. Now see how U thoroughly embarrassed yourself.

Is Christainity as a religion 100% faith and 0% common sense?, Because I don't understand how any sane person will follow a religion riddled with so much forgeries.

SIRTee15:

I'm still waiting for my answer.
Why can't I worship the shin of Allah?

You go wait tire!

Kobojunkiee:
1. There is nothing messed up about the information that is Jesus Christ and Scripture. As Jesus Christ Himself said, His Truth is Everlasting — Unchangeable. Just as it was when His disciples were sent out into the world in the first century, it remains the same even today. His Word has not changed. Yes, religions of both Christianity and Islam have made concerted attempts to twist and change it, they have yet to succeed but the same message of Jesus, to this day, damns both religions.

2. If both men wrote of the same event, what makes you think they could not have written of the same things? After all, they were writing of the same man, Jesus Christ, His experience, His same Gospel, the unchangeable Truth of God. What did you expect? What makes you think that they got it wrong? Are you under some misconception that they were not allowed to get the narratives as close to the Truth as possible or what?

3. Let's stop rambling, please!

▶ The God of Israel, YHWH, promised He would send His New agreement, which Jesus Christ represents, only to the House of Jacob. So, Jesus Christ proclaiming that He was sent by His Father only to the Lost sheep of Israel was as prophesied by the Prophets before Him beginning with Moses.
▶ The Prophet Joel prophesied that during the end times, all sons and daughters in the land of Zion at the time would see visions and dream dreams - Joel 2 vs 28 - 31. Jesus Christ promised that all those in the land would see Him coming in the glory of His Kingdom, the announcement from God the Father that the time had arrived for His Judgment upon the remnants of Israel — Judah— and then closing out of the Old and beginning of the New — the arrival of the Kingdom of God which they had been waiting for. Paul was a young man in the land of Judah at that time and so did have a vision like all of the other sons and daughters in the land also did.
▶ The former Nation of Israel — sister nation to the Nation of Judah — was destroyed by the God of Israel in around 720 BC by way of the Assyrian army. That was God's judgment against the Nation of Israel. Not only did the people of the Nation lose their homes, but they were scattered among the Gentiles from that time on, many of them mating with the Gentiles, something that God Himself commanded them to do in the foreign lands He had dispersed them to. They become the Gentiles.

Jesus Christ warned His followers not to give that which is Holy to the dogs. He specifically told them to go only to the Lost sheep of Israel — which includes the Israelites living among the Gentiles many of whom were themselves born of Gentile blood by then, in addition, of course, to the Jewish Israelites. So, when Paul said he was sent by Jesus Christ to witness to the Gentiles, Paul never said he would go to those who were called dogs by Jesus Christ. Rather, it was the rogue Bishops of the religion of Christianity who through twist concluded that the term Gentiles indicated that dogs — non-Israelites— were allowed into the fold. So, let's get our facts straight, please.

4. Cannonically not right? Are you kidding? All 4 of the Gospels were written within the 40 years between the death of Jesus Christ and the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 AD. Even the book of Revelations, written by John, was written before the Temple was destroyed. Jesus Christ is reported to have died in 31-33AD. I don't believe in your religious canons but I know for a fact that I have yet to find any issues with what is recorded to have been said by Jesus Christ in either of the Gospels by Mark and that by John. So, be more specific next time so we can dive in to examine the claim.

5. Jesus Christ said if you are not an Israelite, you should not even bother with Him and His mention. Islam deceived you!

My Guy, it's tiring to debate you.

If you choose to remain in your folly, so be it.

Have a nice day!

SIRTee15:


We don't need Islam to confirm jesus walk on this earth.
Non biblical scholars confirmed Jesus Christ walked on this earth.

Answer my question, can I worship the shin of Allah?

You can keep deceiving yourself.
Which non biblical scholars? Do you mean the forged Testimonium Flavianum?