₦airaland Forum

felixomor:
Please have u read

The story of king Hezekiah?
How he prolonged his life even after it was prophecied he would die?

And then read 2nd samuel 24:10. (David's sorry).......

Its like its obvious u have never done any study on the free will of man. Its evident in ur talk.

Is there a school where freewill studies are carried out? How in God's name does Hezekiah's story relate to freewill at all? His death was prophesied, he prayed and his years were lengthened, how does freewill fit in here?

Lennycool:
See this dude oh. Those are the only conditions to prove every atheist on the planet wrong. Bring an extensively documented cripple or amputee and heal the person. Easy as that. Anything less than this cannot be confirmed to be true.

Like I said, there are laws governing the occurences of these events and they may not occur outside the bounds of these laws. Does this mean they are unreal? By the way where were you when someone here challenged atheists to an amputee-healing miracle?

felixomor:
That's the power of man's freewill.
Read the story of Moses and king Hezekiah.
You will know how powerful man's freewill is.
He had a chance.


Even David later realized his mistake and he was sorry.

No he did not. That kind of freewill cannot exist in light of God's omniscience.

Lennycool:
Because it's fake, why can't they heal under the conditions I mentioned?

Who are you to decide the conditions?

viviangist:
[size=18pt]RUBBISH (STILL THE WORD "BIBLE" IS NOT INSIDE THE BIBLE)[/size]

How about a simple google search for the meaning of the word 'Bible'?

I am pretty sure you aren't cracked up!

Nope!

Iranu!! Abasha!!

Pidggin:
Hi brethren, it's been a while

Yeah it has. Hope you are good!

felixomor:
Exodus 30:12 God told Moses, “When you take a census of the Israelites to count them, each one must pay the LORD a ransom for his life at the time he is counted. Then no plague will come on them when you number them.”

As u can see, If only David had did a little more homework.

Lesson for us is that we still have our work cut out for us to pray and study God's instructions, so that we can differentiate when the devil is talking from when God is talking.

What homework? Satan im collusion with God caused it to happen. Did he stand a chance?

Pidggin:
Are you encouraging it or what?

Hello!

hopefulLandlord:
and isn't it fishy that

many atheists told 4evergod that they'll bring a cripple and they'll foot all their bills themselves and Naijadeyhia simply ignored? what was he afraid of? whenever he's ready, he can visit that thread and accept their challenge

I cannot speak for him. But I know for sure that the original plan was scuttled by the atheists.

Malakh:
ok then,I was just trying to shame this xtians that they didnt know jack about the book,however if someone answered the question then i would have known that we are of the same mind and would have given them the money and become friends with them but since you r not of the same mind or interested in it theres no need explaining or giving money away...adios

It's a shame. It's alright though.

Malakh:
if i reveal the mysteries then you forfeit the money...agreed? and everybody else

Lol. I am not really interested in such things. It was the money that made me try. I need money bad bad.

ColdHardTruth:
isn't it strange that "none" not one single nationally known cripple haven't "paid heed" to those "guidelines" that get those "unknown" cripples healing?

what are the odds?

think about it

when we ask for limb growing miracle, you can see these apologists open threads to make excuses for their omnipotent god; using every explanation possible

a certain Joagbaje said they need "creative miracle"; whatever that means

doesn't that tell you that the main miracle seem impossible? even those pastors that cure cancer, make blind see, lame walk wouldn't dare try an amputee

and about family members being paid off, are you really saying its not possible to all have been staged?

Yes. It isn't possible for all of them to have been staged. A certain 4everGod also invited atheists for a limb-growing miracle sometime ago. The atheist was to come with his own candidate for the miracle but he found a way to back out of the challenge. I don't know any 'nationally known cripple' who goes from crusade ground to crusade ground. Do you?

Timbuktu14:
Yeah, just cashiers.

Any other places? These places will just burden me with transport costs.

JSoE:
Lol. Supernatural? Lwkm

No supernaturals. The fact that you don't understand something doesn't make it supernatural.

The fact that buhari does not understand simple economics does not make it supernatural to him

It just takes a little attention or more to understand that which you tag supernatural.

This is the default response. Is it not suspicious that those things ''that we do not understand'' have a way of happening all the time in churches and crusade grounds?

hopefulLandlord:
deny what exactly?

what exactly did he deny?

has there ever been a nationally known and confirmed cripple that was known to have been healed in Nigeria?

if NO, then he hasn't denied anything looking at his comment

I always knew you to be more open than this

By saying that their families could have been paid off, he has denied that anything happened. I only wonder how many familes would have been paid off considering the sheer number of these testimonies? He should also realize that popularity has to nothing to do with anything, although people like Ogenyi Onazi and Jim Iyke have had ''miraculous encounters'' in TBJ's church (I don't remember the details and I believe the guy is a fraud though). My hypothesis is that there are guidelines regarding the receival of these 'miracles'. If these 'famous cripples' do not pay heed to these guidelines; whose fault is it then that they haven't received their 'miracles'?

Lennycool:
Sorry for budding in, but a simple way to address this phenomenon would be to ask yourself why the pastor didn't heal a widely known cripple, the Nigerian Paralympic team has a lot of them or why there is no confirmable proof that this person was truly crippled before the healing. You talk as if the so called relatives could not be paid off, did you do a background check on the individual or his family members.

My point exactly. You'd deny it. It's your only play.

Antiparticle:
My response below is not meant to start a heated argument. Just trying to get a conversation going. I want to understand where you are coming from. It's a bit long so please pardon me.

Question: why is it important to believe that the supernatural exists? Note that I'm not asking why is it important to believe in a specific deity like Jesus or Odin or Thor or Amadiora. I am asking what moral or ethical or logistical difference does it make if one believes in the existence of the supernatural or not?

For instance, I am an agnostic atheist yet I am open to the idea that there could be weird forces in the universe that we are not aware of yet. But this doesn't mean that I will believe any claims about the existence of the supernatural without evidence. In my view, the question about the existence of the "supernatural" is itself problematic because humans arbitrarily defined that term as an attempt to comprehend aspects of nature whose causality they couldn't understand. The fact that the word "supernatural" exists in language does not mean that it has to be real. We have many concepts that exist in language but aren't real (e.g. Santa Claus, tooth fairies, etc).

Being atheist doesn't mean that one is philosophically closed off. I would actually argue the opposite. Many people become atheist precisely because they were open to questioning notions that other humans held sacrosanct (e.g. the existence of god/s or the spirit world), then later finding out that said notions were fabricated and have zero evidence backing them. You don't have to be sure that the supernatural doesn't exist in order to become atheist.

Atheism just means lack of belief in deities, it says nothing about level of knowledge of the existence of deities (agnosticism vs gnosticism addresses that). I hold the notion that though it is philosophically possible that the supernatural exists (whatever that means), this doesn't mean that the supernatural interferes in the physical world or gives a crap about if we believe in it or not. And this doesn't mean that the supernatural is conscious, or a being, or anthropomorphic, etc. What does supernatural even tangibly mean?

I would ask you another question: how certain are you that we (humans) were not created by an invisible spider residing in the gaseous clouds of Jupiter? If you say "yes, I am certain that we were not created by Jupiter spiders", on what basis would you say that? You would probably say that because there is zero evidence supporting that statement and it thus sounds outrageous to you. This is the same logic that naturally leads to rational inquiry (and in many cases, atheism).

The theistic approach claims to know of the existence of the supernatural unless disproven. But this is not how inquiry works. We can't assert that a notion is true unless disproven. We need evidence (or unassailable logic) in order to assert that something is true. This is why the idea of the supernatural is a nonstarter (and to me, mostly unimportant) to most atheists.

I am also not saying that the absence of evidence is the evidence of absence (which is why almost all atheists are "agnostic" atheist). My commentary is that from a rational perspective, we can't hold beliefs based on the criteria that they must be first disproved in order to be considered untrue. Based on the criteria of "you must first disprove", I could say that you are a witch and then say that if you can't disprove it then the accusation is true; but we know that it is almost impossible to prove to someone that you are not a witch! And this doesn't change the fact that you, the accused, are not a witch.

It's not important to believe anything. It's just that there are some phenomena that defy rational explanation and the 'hardcore' atheists have failed to provide any sensible explanation to these things other than saying they did not happen or that they were stage-managed or some other insensible thing. A pastor simply prays for a crippled man and he immediately rises and begins to walk, people who have known him for all of his crippled life are dumbstruck and livid with awe at the transformation they have seen. What manner of rational inquiry would you ask them to undertake? If this isn't supernatural, what is it then? The only other move you can make at this point will be to deny that the event ever happened?

I need a temporary job. One to two months!

donnie:


At the end of the day, we see what we want to see or what we are programed to see.
I recently registered someone to attend the healing school. It was stated clearly on the website that candidates will attend faith building classes for at least 2 weeks after which they will be assessed and made to join the healing line based on their level of response to the Word so far. If they are not ready yet, they are advised to continue the classes until the next healing service or the next session. This is a healing ministry...not a show.

This wasn't how Christ did it. Mustard seed faith was enough for Him and he said 'greater works than these shall ye do'. Why Oyaks own come different na. Two whole weeks to build faith. Na bridge dem wan build?

felixomor:
Thank u.

Likewise, Your first answer "satan" is the answer to the question

And it was all in a part of a plan permitted by God.

Just like Isaiah describes God as someone who was "pleased to bruise Jesus" for our sake.

But we all know thats literally and metaphorically speaking because he permitted it as a grand part of his plan.

Why then did God punish David for it?

exhibition:
You cannot use that exactly for God. Because there is an absolute record in the Bible that he created the earth. Job 38:4-41

....In Verse 4...."Where was thou (the scientists, atheists etcetra) when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou has understanding." Can you answer this? Also to Mr. Seun Can you answer this?

You must be joking!

JSoE:
Lol. Yes, I've reached my destination.

ATR had me believing that there might be some god somewhere but I've come to link the complex dots and voila!

I made it to this point.

Hmm. Really brave. Wish I could do same. Are you now certain that there is no such thing as the supernatural?

felixomor:
Please before I answer ur question?

Help me Answer this question: who gave Job sickness in the OT?
And who allowed it?

I ask a question a you respond with two because...? No wahala. The answers to your questions are Satan and God respectively. Now provide my own answer!

felixomor:
Absolutely

Good! Who incited David to take a census in the Old Testament?

JSoE:
We exist just that we don't go about announcing it.
Although I just completed my transition from agnosticism.

Nice! Transition to what? Full blown Dawkins-esque atheism?

felixomor:
Oga, E no dey

Do you agree with the OP's definition of contradiction as given above?

branhampaul:
"VICARIVS FILII DEI" Is On The Throne Were He Sits.. It Means "Instead Of The Son Of God", He Is Claiming To Be The Successor To The Son Of God.
The Catholic Church Believe That Peter Was The First Pope, That He Was The Successor Of Jesus Christ.. Which Is An Error!
They Claim That Every Pope Following Him Is A Successor Of Jesus Christ..
Add Up "VICARIVS FILII DEI" IN ROMAN NUMERAL And You'll Get 666.. (add It Up YourSelf Like This, V+I+C... For 5+1+10 And So On)..
The Bible Said The Anti-Christ '"he'll Be Sitting In A Church That Set On Seven Hills" And Thats Vatican TODAY. (google to confirm which on seven hill), "and his power Will Go To All The World, And He Is Called The Antichrist"..
Come Out Of Catholicism, Denomination..
Serve Your God & Not A Church.. Church Can't Help You But Christ.. That Doesn't Mean You Should Stop Going To Church..
No Wonder He Has Being Trying To Unite All World Religions..
Pls Copy & Share To Enligthen Peps..
Remain A Christain, Christ Iz Coming Very Soon..

Na so. Every pope is an anti-Christ. Make we hear word.

How person go open mouth talk say contradiction(ssssssss) no dey Bible?

Explain to me how humans are already in Hell while Lucifer and his demons that caused all the 'wahala' are still roaming about.