₦airaland Forum

Emusan: Truly if one reads this translation and compare it with other translations one can say Sam Shamoun is being biased with his articles BUT does he being biased?
Absolutely No!
because Sam has dealt with the bias part of other translations like Y. Ali, Picthall e.t.c in translating the word SALAT as blessing in one article.

I'm still searching for the article once I get it I'll provide you the link to tell you that Sam never deceives his reader.

I purposely left only Mushin Khan's translation because it gives more evidence to Sam claim with the word SALAT that appears.

To you what is the meaning of SALAT?

This is how you will know that people like Yusuf Ali, Sahih try to cover up this obvious problem by rendering the word SALAT as Blessing not as Prayer.

I will reply you later tonight.


meanwhile, there is a lot to say on this

Thank you for your contribution @brother titings..

Veey nice exposition

I want usermane to address this post abeegg

Empiree: @userrmane, I am sure you know what you doing. But it makes no sense arguing over this. I am also aware many have talked to you in past. So may I ask you what these verses mean to you?

Below are some verses in the Qur'an, which prove the fact that we must obey and follow the Messenger Muhammad (SAW) if we are real Muslims (i.e. submitters):

3:31. Say (O Muhammad SAW): "If you (really) love Allah then 'follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you of your sins. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

3:32. Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Obey Allah and the Messenger (Muhammad SAW)."...

3:132. And obey Allah and the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) that you may obtain mercy.

4:13. ...and whosoever obeys Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) will be admitted to Gardens under which rivers flow (in Paradise), to abide therein, and that will be the great success.

4:59. O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger...

4:64. We sent no Messenger, but to be obeyed...

4:69. And whosoever obeys Allah and the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), then they will be in the company of those on whom Allah has bestowed His Grace...

4:80. He who obeys the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), has indeed obeyed Allah...

5:92. And obey Allah and the Messenger...

8:1. ...and obey Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad SAW), if you are believers.

8:20. O you who believe! Obey Allah and His Messenger, and turn not away from him (Messenger Muhammad SAW)...

8:46. And obey Allah and His Messenger...

9:71. ...and obey Allah and His Messenger...

24:52. And whosoever obeys Allah and His Messenger (SAW), fears Allah, and keeps his duty (to Him), such are the successful ones.

24:54. Say: "Obey Allah and obey the Messenger...

24:56. ...and obey the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) that you may receive mercy (from Allah).

33:21. Indeed in the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad SAW) you have a good example to follow...

33:33. ...and obey Allah and His Messenger...

33:71. ...And whosoever obeys Allah and His Messenger (SAW) he has indeed achieved a great achievement.

47:33. O you who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger (Muhammad SAW)...

48:17. ...And whosoever obeys Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad SAW), He will admit him to Gardens beneath which rivers flow (Paradise)...

59:7. ...And whatsoever the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it)...

64:12. Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger (Muhammad SAW)...

thank you in advance

tbaba1234:
Misguidance appreciates misguidance, that's the way, it usually goes.

lol


Please bro. we all have to help this guy from is delusions, the thing is getting worse day in day out

SMH

AlBaqir: There is a difference between knowing a path and threading the path.

Really feeling you this days

5 bottles of a big Coca-Cola for you (Chill one abegg)

This particular post/question is a deception and a lie which the owner of this article tries to insert into the Quran, Ever since i have reading the Quran i have never come accross this so called Palmer translation. To expose the lie of Sam Shamoun here i noticed that in other question in the OP He uses other translations such as Shaki and Packtall but when it comes to This particular Question why didnt he Use Picthalll or Sahih

He didnt use it because he wanted to deceive the reader into believing that Allah prayed to someone. Do you Agrree that Sam shamoun is trying to deceive us here or not? Please answer this question or i wont continue this dialogue

I will be using five translations in countering your claim here

Emusan: 2) Whom did Allah pray to?
He it is who prays for you and His angels too, to bring you forth out of the darkness into the light, for He is merciful to the believers. S. 33:43 Palmer

Quran 33: 43
Sahih International
It is He who confers blessing upon you, and His angels [ask Him to do so] that He may bring you out from darknesses into the light. And ever is He, to the believers, Merciful.

Muhsin Khan
He it is Who sends Salat (His blessings) on you, and His angels too (ask Allah to bless and forgive you), that He may bring you out from darkness (of disbelief and polytheism) into light (of Belief and Islamic Monotheism). And He is Ever Most Merciful to the believers.

Pickthall
He it is Who blesseth you, and His angels (bless you), that He may bring you forth from darkness unto light; and He is ever Merciful to the believers.

Yusuf Ali
He it is Who sends blessings on you, as do His angels, that He may bring you out from the depths of Darkness into Light: and He is Full of Mercy to the Believers.

Shakir
He it is Who sends His blessings on you, and (so do) His angels, that He may bring you forth out of utter darkness into the light; and He is Merciful to the believers.

Emusan: Verily, God AND His angels pray for the prophet. O ye who believe! pray for him and salute him with a salutation! S. 33:56 Palmer

QUran 33:56
Sahih International
Indeed, Allah confers blessing upon the Prophet , and His angels [ask Him to do so]. O you who have believed, ask [ Allah to confer] blessing upon him and ask [ Allah to grant him] peace.

Muhsin Khan
Allah sends His Salat (Graces, Honours, Blessings, Mercy, etc.) on the Prophet (Muhammad SAW) and also His angels too (ask Allah to bless and forgive him). O you who believe! Send your Salat on (ask Allah to bless) him (Muhammad SAW), and (you should) greet (salute) him with the Islamic way of greeting (salutation i.e. AsSalamu 'Alaikum).

Pickthall
Lo! Allah and His angels shower blessings on the Prophet. O ye who believe! Ask blessings on him and salute him with a worthy salutation.

Yusuf Ali
Allah and His angels send blessings on the Prophet: O ye that believe! Send ye blessings on him, and salute him with all respect.

Shakir
Surely Allah and His angels bless the Prophet; O you who believe! call for (Divine) blessings on him and salute him with a (becoming) salutation.

Emusan: Prayer entails calling upon or supplicating someone who can hear you, which in the context of Islamic worship means invoking Allah:

Who is more unjust than one who invents a lie against Allah or rejects His Signs?

Now please answer the question i asked up there...Good night

Emusan: @Rilwayne001

SAMPLE 1

Analysis of Moses encountered with Allah.

I'll insert my word in bracket.

So, when he(Moses) came to it, he(Moses) was called 'Blessed is he who is in the fire, and he who is about it. Glory be to God, the Lord of all Being! Moses, behold, it is I, God, the All-mighty, the All-wise.

From this surah many problems arise:
1) The underlined statement was already indicated that Moses was called by someone.
Then if Moses was called, who called Moses?

2) We see the narrator trying to made us know that another person is now talking which suppose to be Allah inside the burning bush.

3) The person who called Moses firstly praised him/herself with the statement "Blessed is he who is in the fire...."
NOTE: the HE in this phrase suppose to be referring to Allah BUT the question we must ask here is who is talking when the underlined statement "....who is in the fire" already made it clear that it's Allah that is actually in the fire?

4) The narrator still goes on to say "Glory be to GOD" remember after Moses was called by the one who is in the fire who supposedly to be Allah is when the conversation begins.

5) To tell you that this is purely wrong linguistic composition the narrator/writer finally identified Allah as the SPEAKER by this statement "Moses, behold it is I, God

Doesn't the same God first says "Blessed is he.......or....Glory be to God"? whose God Blessed or Glory be to?
Could it be Allah who later identified Itself as God again or angel Jibril who is narrating the story?

Definitely it could not be Jibril because MOSES was already called by the one in the fire.

So it is Allah who is praising Itself or another God.

Sample 2 is coming!

This is part of the OP, and i want to correct one deception in the OP which i will like you to affirm before addressing the rest

Emusan: Next time don't quote your OWN post when you need a reply.
I will sir.

Okay

Emusan: Firstly, Gen 1:26-27 you quoted above pose no problem for Christian because The Father was talking to the Son and the Holy Sprit. This indicate how a Holy book full of wisdom should be arranged. So this should tell you that Yahweh is a Trinity right from the Genesis.

First of all, we all know Jesus never teaches Trinity, neither was it taught by Moses and other Propehts in The OT, now if we to follow your assertion here "Are you saying Yahweh was talking to his Word Are you saying Yahweh was talking to his spirit The verse states that LET US CREATE MAN IN OUR OWN IMAGE Mr. Emusan Please can you say to your word and spirit that 'EMUSAN LET US PAINT A PORTRAIT'

Emusan: Secondly, see the way the writer concisely arranged his word by differentiating when God is talking in PLURALITY without shifting in grammatical expression this is how a knowledgeable God directs His writing not like that of QUR'AN

Lastly, the opening words in that verse is "And God said.." which implies that the narrator or the speaker has stopped talking only interjecting God's own word which is very clear.

And i asked you a question which you actually duldge, i said was the writer present when YAhweh was talking

Emusan: You're mistaken, the speaker or Narrator has already indicated who was talking by the phrase "So God.....in the image of GOD.... the narrator didn't say "I" "me" or using a plural pronouns 'We or Us' (which will indicate that the speaker is part of people who partakes in the creation of man like angel Jibril always does.
I challenge you to produce a clear verse like this in the Qur'an where the word of the speaker or narrator was well arranged without conflicting Allah's word or makes the speaker looks like many people were talking THIS MUST NOT include translator's insertion.
I believe this answer other post of yours.

Please who is the Narrator? Was he present when God was saying all this word

Emusan: Does it mean we can't express ourselves in Arabic clearly the way we express ourselves in English.

The Quran is clear in Arabic much more than the way it is in English since it was revealed in Arabic...thats my point..

Emusan: I don't need to provide anything even you yourself must agree because the reason they claimed royal pronouns for We, Us or Our is to guide against MANY GODHEAD in the Qur'an BUT IF YOU disagree then tell us why Allah is using plural PERSONAL pronouns when Allah is one.

I showed you times in my post on this thread that The Quran is Allah's word which was conveyed to the prophet through Angel Jibril, and i said there is no way you will be conveying a message of your boss to a third party without your adding your own word to it, Angel jibril is just like a teacher teaching the prophet the word of God, Therefore both God and The angels word appeared in it (The angel acting like a teacher and Allah revealing himself in some part.

Verily, We Ourselves have sent down this Exhortation, and most surely We will be its Guardian, (Al-Hijr, 15:10)

Verse 8 of this Sura, contains the demand, mockingly made by disbelievers that if the Quran were really as grand a book as it was claimed to be, it ought to have descended under the guardianship of angels. This ridicule of disbelievers has been answered in the present verse, which emphatically says that the Quran is indeed a sublime book and that God Himself has undertaken to act as its Guardian and that He will always protect it against every kind of corruption and interference. And in order that this promise about the protection of the Quran may gain still more force, particles expressive of special emphasis, such as 'Anna' (verily We) and 'Nahnou' (Ourselves) and again 'Anna' followed by 'Lam' (most surely) have been used in this verse. Thus the claim has been made in the most emphatic and forceful language.

The statement that God Himself is the Guardian (wali) of the Quran does not mean that angels do not guard it. They also do so, for when the master himself is guarding a thing, the servants must also be necessarily engaged in that service. By saying, most surely We will be its Guardian, God, however, points to the fact that there are certain peculiarities of the Quran which it is beyond the power of angels to guard and therefore, God Himself has undertaken to do that work.

I also showed you that the prophet affirm that Angel jibril is his Guidian

Imam Ahmad recorded that Ibn ` Abbas said, "A group of Jews came to Allah's Prophet and said,"Talk to us about some things we will ask you and which only a Prophet would know. 'He said, Ask me about whatever you wish. However, give your pledge to Allah, similar to the pledge that Ya`qub took from his children, that if I tell you something and you recognize its truth, you will follow me in Islam. ' They said, ` Agreed. ' The Prophet said, ` Ask me about whatever you wish. ' They said, ` Tell us about four matters:
1. What kinds of food did Isra'il prohibit for himself

2. What about the intimate discharge of the woman and the man, and what role does each play in producing male or female of fspring

3. Tell us about the condit ion of the unlettered Prophet during sleep,

4. And who is his Wali among the angels'. The Prophet took their covenant that they will follow him if he answers these questions, and they agreed.
................(to cut the story short) 'They said, Tell us now about your Wali among the angels, for this is when we either follow or shun you. 'He said, [size=20pt]` My Wali is Jibril, and Allah never sent a Prophet , but Jibril is his Wali.[/size] ' They said, `We then shun you. Had you a Wali other than Jibril,we would have followed you. ' On that , Allah, the Exalted revealed, (Say: "Whoever is an enemy to Jibril. . . '') 2:97_ . '

I also showed you that The prophet say of angel Jibril

Narrated Abu Huraira: "One day while the Prophet was sitting in the company of some people, (The angel) Gabriel came and asked, "What is faith?" Allah's Apostle replied, 'Faith is to believe in Allah, His angels, (the) meeting with Him, His Apostles, and to believe in Resurrection." Then he further asked, "What is Islam?" Allah's Apostle replied, "To worship Allah Alone and none else, to offer prayers perfectly to pay the compulsory charity (Zakat) and to observe fasts during the month of Ramadan." Then he further asked, "What is Ihsan (perfection)?" Allah's Apostle replied, "To worship Allah as if you see Him, and if you cannot achieve this state of devotion then you must consider that He is looking at you." Then he further asked, "When will the Hour be established?" Allah's Apostle replied, "The answerer has no better knowledge than the questioner. But I will inform you about its portents.

1. When a slave (lady) gives birth to her master.

2. When the shepherds of black camels start boasting and competing with others in the construction of higher buildings. And the Hour is one of five things which nobody knows except Allah.

The Prophet then recited: "Verily, with Allah (Alone) is the knowledge of the Hour--." (31. 34) Then that man (Gabriel) left and the Prophet asked his companions to call him back, but they could not see him. Then the Prophet said, [size=20pt]"That was Gabriel who came to teach the people their religion."[/size] Abu 'Abdullah said: He (the Prophet) considered all that as a part of faith. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 47)"

Also....
“[That] indeed, the Qur’an is a word [size=15pt][conveyed by] a NOBLE messenger[/size]. [Who is] possessed of power [size=15pt]and with the Owner of the Throne[/size], secure [in position].Obeyed there [in the heavens] and trustworthy. And your companion is not [at all] mad.And he has already seen Gabriel in the clear horizon.” [Surah At-Takweer: 81:19-23]

I dont know if you get the point in the above verse.....It clearly stated here

Emusan: So you agree that Qur'an is not 100% Allah's Allah's word.
Then Jibril is also another Allah for using PERSONAL AND PLURAL FIRST person pronouns.

The Quran is 100% Allah's word because i have already showed you the rank of Angel Gabriel, therefore he (the angel) cannot say anything save by Allah, I showed you where the prophet affirm that he (jibril) is a guardian to him, also the prophet said Jubril is a teacher who taught him the word of God and the Quran was written according to how Jibril was conveying it to him...What else do you want?

Emusan: See how those inserted words beautify this sura.
If you remove all the inserted words you yourself know what will happen to the rest of the statement....MEANINGLESS!

“indeed, the Qur’an is a word a NOBLE messenger. possessed of power and with the Owner of the Throne, secure .Obeyed there and trustworthy. And your companion is not mad.And he has already seen Gabriel in the clear horizon.” [Surah At-Takweer: 81:19-23]

Is it meaningless like this'

The translation is just to make the reader grasp the message the Arabic Quran is trying pass, thats why we do not have one translation but there is only one arabic Quran, which many translator tried to tranlate into english in other for the english people to understand it. No matter how add they try it will still not sound hard like the arabic one. Because there are some words of arabic that might not be present in english words therefore they fiind an alternative to them. Therefore the interpolation in that verse is to help the reader grasp the message the Quran is trying to pass.

Here is the Pickall tranlation of that Surah
That this is in truth the word of an honoured messenger, Mighty, established in the presence of the Lord of the Throne, (One) to be obeyed, and trustworthy; And your comrade is not mad. [Surah At-Takweer: 81:19-23] That is, he is not just an ordinary messager, he is a trust worthy and that he is to be obeyed. And i showed you up there that apart from the angel guiding and teaching the prohet the Quran, Allah is also guiding it.

Emusan: The Bible is the word of Yahweh whom He used those 40+ men to convey to the rest of the world.

Every single word of the bible is the word of Yahweh himself right?

Emusan: Remember Christian didn't claim Yahweh recites or dictate all the words in the Bible rather Yahweh uses His Holy Spirit to guide each one BUT as the writers were puting down their work they chose the style. I've answered sir.

Atleast the Holy spirit was working for yahweh to guide the writer right? which indirectly make yahweh responsible for every in the bible.. True or False

Hkana: An interesting discussion by Empiree and Usermane. I never knew Empiree was male (until I saw a brother address him as "bro"

Quick question for Usermane: Do you believe in the 5 daily prayers? Or differently put: what's your take on the 5 daily prayers?

I'm just curious.

Am also curious to know..

especially how he used to observe is own

truthman2012: Is an impression or what people see actually happening?

Which people if not the famous anti islamic website

Do you think this news is genuine, please provide another source that is not an anti islamic website..

And this fake news/pics is coming from answeringmuslim.com,

SMH....Christianity and there envagelism with lies..

truthman2012: Characteristic of you, nobody ever answers your questions and yet you keep mute over questions raised by others because you have no answers.

SMH

truthman2012: Gabriel was delivering Allah's message to Muhammad in the 'third person singular' and as a reported speech by the words 'HIS MESSENGERS'. Then it should have been: HE makes no distinction between any of HIS messengers.

Notice here that Jibril was the one reporting to his LORD here

The Messenger has believed in what was revealed to him from his Lord, and [so have] the believers. All of them have believed in Allah and His angels and His books and His messengers, [size=15pt][saying][/size], "We make no distinction between any of His messengers." [size=15pt]And they say[/size], "We hear and we obey. [We seek] Your forgiveness, our Lord, and to You is the [final] destination."

notice that verse was talking about "The messenger (Prophet Muhammad) and the believers "

Notice the SAYING and AND THEY SAY

truthman2012: If a direct speech from Allah, it should have read ''WE make no distinction between any of OUR messengers.

truthman2012: Even if it was Gabriel, why did he not use HE instead of WE as in: We HE makes no distinction between any of HIS messengers.

Seems you dont even know what you are saying again

truthman2012: [s]By sticking to only this, you have accepted the other errors Emusan has highlighted.[/s]

Cant you read at all....SMH

Also in the bible we read
Genesis 11:6-8New International Version (NIV)

6 The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them.

7 "[size=15pt]Come, let us go down,[/size] and there confound their language so they will not understand each other.”"

8 So the Lord scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city.

They must have been many up there ooo

To whom does the "us" refer?

ANd before i start replying the OP...Please answer this questions

Genesis 1:26-27
26 Then God said , "Let US make man in OUR image, in OUR likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

First of all, who was the one talking here, God or the writer of Genesis?, Is the writer present when God was Doing all this talkings?
And can you please expantiate about US and OUR in the passage?

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

Also who was talking here?, the person must have been present there..

Narrated Abu Huraira: "One day while the Prophet was sitting in the company of some people, (The angel) Gabriel came and asked, "What is faith?" Allah's Apostle replied, 'Faith is to believe in Allah, His angels, (the) meeting with Him, His Apostles, and to believe in Resurrection." Then he further asked, "What is Islam?" Allah's Apostle replied, "To worship Allah Alone and none else, to offer prayers perfectly to pay the compulsory charity (Zakat) and to observe fasts during the month of Ramadan." Then he further asked, "What is Ihsan (perfection)?" Allah's Apostle replied, "To worship Allah as if you see Him, and if you cannot achieve this state of devotion then you must consider that He is looking at you." Then he further asked, "When will the Hour be established?" Allah's Apostle replied, "The answerer has no better knowledge than the questioner. But I will inform you about its portents.

1. When a slave (lady) gives birth to her master.

2. When the shepherds of black camels start boasting and competing with others in the construction of higher buildings. And the Hour is one of five things which nobody knows except Allah.

The Prophet then recited: "Verily, with Allah (Alone) is the knowledge of the Hour--." (31. 34) Then that man (Gabriel) left and the Prophet asked his companions to call him back, but they could not see him. Then the Prophet said, [size=20pt]"That was Gabriel who came to teach the people their religion."[/size] Abu 'Abdullah said: He (the Prophet) considered all that as a part of faith. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 47)"

"'Umar b. al-Khattab (Allah be pleased with him) reported: When Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) kept himself away from his wives, I entered the mosque, and found people striking the ground with pebblesand saying: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) has divorced his wives, and that was before they were commanded to observe seclusion 'Umar said to himself: I must find this (actual position) today. So I went to 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) and said (to her): Daughter of Abu Bakr, have you gone to the extent of giving trouble to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him)? Thereupon she said: Son of Khattab, you have nothing to do with me, and I have nothing to do with you. You should look to your own receptacle. He ('Umar) said: I visited Hafsa daughter of 'Umar, and said to her: Hafsa, the (news) has reached me that you cause Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) trouble. You know that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) does not love you, and had I not been (your father) he would have divorced you. (On hearing this) she wept bitterly. I said to her: Where is Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him)? Shesaid: He is in the attic room. I went in and found Rabah, the servant of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), sitting on the thresholds of the window dangling his feet on the hollow wood of the date-palm with the help of which Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) climbed (to the apartment) and came down. I cried: 0 Rabah, seek permission for me from Allah's Messenger (way peace be upon him). Rabah cast a glance at the apartment and then looked toward me but said nothing. I again said: Rabah, seek permission for me from Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him). Rabah looked towards the apartment and then cast a glance at me, but said nothig. I then raised my voice and said: 0 Rabah, seek permission for me from Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him). I think that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) is under the impression that I have come for the sake of Hafsa. By Allah, if Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) would command me to strike her neck, I would certainly strike her neck. I raised my voice and he pointed me to climb up (and get into his apartment). I visited Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), and he was lying on a mat. I sat down and he drew up his lower garment over him and he had nothing (else) over him, and that the mat had left its marks on his sides. I looked with my eyes in the store room of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him). I found only a handful of barley equal to one sa' and an equal quantity of the leaves of Mimosa Flava placed in the nook of the cell, and a semi-tanned leather bag hanging (in one side), and I was moved to tears (on seeing this extremely austere living of the Holy Piophet), and he said: Ibn Khattab, what wakes you weep?

I said: Apostle of Allah, why should I not shed tears? This mat has left its marks on your sides and I do not see in your store room (except these few things) that I have seen; Ceasar and Closroes are leading their lives in plenty whereas you are Allah's Messenger. His chosen one, and that is your store! He said: Ibn Khattab, aren't you satisfied that for us (there should be the prosperity) of the Hereafter, and for them (there should be the prosperity of) this world? I said: Yes. And as I had entered I had seen the signs of anger on his face, and I therefore, said: Messenger of Allah, what trouble do you feel from your wives, and if you have divorced them, [size=20pt]verily Allah is with you, His angels, Gabriel, Mika'il,[/size] I and Abu Bakr and the believers are with you. And seldom I talked and (which I uttered on that day) I hoped that Allah would testify to my words that I uttered. And so the verse of option (Ayat al-Takhyir) was revealed. Maybe his Lord, if he divorce you, will give him in your place wives better than you..." (Ixv. 5). And if you back up one another against him, then surely[size=20pt] Allah is his Patron, and Gabriel[/size] and the righteous believers, and the angels after that are the aidera (lvi. 4). And it was 'A'isha, daughter of Abu Bakr, and Hafsa who had prevailed upon all the wives of Allah's Prophet (way peace be upon him) for (pressing them for mote money). I said: Messenger of Allah, have you divorced them? He said: No. I said: Messenger of Allah, I entered the mosque and found the Muslims playing with pebbles (absorbed in thought) and saying: Allah's Messenger has divorced his wives. Should I get down and inform there that you have not divorced them? He said: Yes, if you so like. And I went on talking to him until I (found) the signs of anger disappeared on his face and (his seriousness was changed to a happy mood and as a result thereof) his face had the natural tranquillity upon it and he laughed and his teeth were the most charming (among the teeth) of all people. Then Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) climbed down and I also climbed down and catching hold of the wood of the palm-tree and Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) came down (with such ease) as if he was walking on the ground, not touching anything with his hand (to get support). I said: Messenger of Allah, you remained in your apartment for twenty-nine days. He said: (At times) the month consists of twenty-nine days. I stood at the door of the mosque and I called out at the top of my voice: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) has not divorced his wives (and it was on this occasion that this) verse was revealed:" And if any matter pertaining to peace or alarm comes within their ken, they broadcast it; whereas, if they would refer it to the Apostle and those who have been entrusted with authority amongst them, those of them who are engaged in obtaining intelligence would indeed know (what to do with) it" (iv 83). And it was I who understood this matter, and Allah revealed the verse pertaining to option (given to the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him in regard to the retaining or divorcing of his wives). (Translation of Sahih Muslim, Book 9: The Book of Divorce (Kitab Al-Talaq), Number 3507)"

Verily, We Ourselves have sent down this Exhortation, and most surely We will be its Guardian, (Al-Hijr, 15:10)

This verse furnishes a powerful proof of the truth of the Quran and of its divine origin. In fact, the promise about the preservation of the Quran made in this verse has been remarkably fulfilled that even if there had been no other proof of the truth of Islam, this alone would have sufficed to establish its divine origin.

Verse 8 of this Sura, contains the demand, mockingly made by disbelievers that if the Quran were really as grand a book as it was claimed to be, it ought to have descended under the guardianship of angels. This ridicule of disbelievers has been answered in the present verse, which emphatically says that the Quran is indeed a sublime book and that God Himself has undertaken to act as its Guardian and that He will always protect it against every kind of corruption and interference. And in order that this promise about the protection of the Quran may gain still more force, particles expressive of special emphasis, such as 'Anna' (verily We) and 'Nahnou' (Ourselves) and again 'Anna' followed by 'Lam' (most surely) have been used in this verse. Thus the claim has been made in the most emphatic and forceful language.

The statement that God Himself is the Guardian (wali) of the Quran does not mean that angels do not guard it. They also do so, for when the master himself is guarding a thing, the servants must also be necessarily engaged in that service. By saying, most surely We will be its Guardian, God, however, points to the fact that there are certain peculiarities of the Quran which it is beyond the power of angels to guard and therefore, God Himself has undertaken to do that work.

Now put your 'HE' in that verse and lets see how it would make any sense

This was your claim

truthman2012: Look at this again:
The Messenger believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in Allah, His angels, His books, and His messengers. We make no distinction between any of His messengers.[/b] [size=15pt]And they say[/size]: "We hear, and we obey: (We seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys."
Qur'an 2:285
"WE" here should refer to Allah, as it were. But why the word "HIS" instead of "OUR". The correct statement should have been: WE make no distinction between any of OUR messengers.
I believe the so many errors in the Quran, grammatical, historical and scientific are deliberate manipulations.

truthman2012: Ignorant because I said it was Muhammad? Did any muslim see Gabriel? You only believe Muhammad said it was Gabriel. As far as early muslims were concerned, they only saw and heard Muhammad, not Gabriel.
Even if it was Gabriel, why did he not use HE instead of WE as in: We HE makes no distinction between any of HIS messengers.

HERE IS THE SURAH AGAIN

The Messenger has believed in what was revealed to him from his Lord, and [so have] the believers. All of them have believed in Allah and His angels and His books and His messengers, [size=15pt][saying][/size], "We make no distinction between any of His messengers." [size=15pt]And they say[/size], "We hear and we obey. [We seek] Your forgiveness, our Lord, and to You is the [final] destination."



Notice here that Jibril was the one conveying the message here

Also this is that the prophet have to say about Angel Jibril..

Imam Ahmad recorded that Ibn ` Abbas said, "A group of Jews came to Allah's Prophet and said,"Talk to us about some things we will ask you and which only a Prophet would know. 'He said, Ask me about whatever you wish. However, give your pledge to Allah, similar to the pledge that Ya`qub took from his children, that if I tell you something and you recognize its truth, you will follow me in Islam. ' They said, ` Agreed. ' The Prophet said, ` Ask me about whatever you wish. ' They said, ` Tell us about four matters:
1. What kinds of food did Isra'il prohibit for himself

2. What about the sexual discharge of the woman and the man, and what role does each play in producing male or female of fspring

3. Tell us about the condit ion of the unlettered Prophet during sleep,

4. And who is his Wali among the angels'. The Prophet took their covenant that they will follow him if he answers these questions, and they agreed.
................(to cut the story short) 'They said, Tell us now about your Wali among the angels, for this is when we either follow or shun you. 'He said, `My Wali is Jibril, and Allah never sent a Prophet , but Jibril is his Wali. ' They said, `We then shun you. Had you a Wali other than Jibril,we would have followed you. ' On that , Allah, the Exalted revealed, (Say: "Whoever is an enemy to Jibril. . . '') 2:97_ . ''

One thing i want you to note is that the Quran was not revealed in english it was only tranlated to wnglish language, and we cannot grasp the original message in other language like the one it was revealed..

Emusan: Please kindly do me this favour before we proceed.

Do you believed that 'WE, HIM, HIS, OUR, US' as agreed by many Muslim scholars to be a royal plural pronouns and third person pronouns used for Allah?

First of all, you have provide the muslim scholars who agreed that HIM and HIS is a royal pronouns...

Please provide prove for this.

Emusan: NOTE: They did this in other to explain away the plurality of many Allah(Gods) in Qur'an.

Does Muhammad or Angel Gabriel word appear in the Qur'an?

The prophet's word does not appear in the Quran, but that of the Angel appeared in it because i wonder how the person through whom the message is conveyed will not appear in it, since it is not that a book was just given to him.

“[That] indeed, the Qur’an is a word [conveyed by] a NOBLE messenger. [Who is] possessed of power and with the Owner of the Throne, secure [in position].Obeyed there [in the heavens] and trustworthy. And your companion is not [at all] mad.And he has already seen Gabriel in the clear horizon.” [Surah At-Takweer: 81:19-23]

Is the bible word of Yahweh or of those 40+ men that wrote it?

please answer my questions too before we move further..

Allah has described Jibreel with great characteristics, as He says:

“[That] indeed, the Qur’an is a word [conveyed by] a noble messenger. [Who is] possessed of power and with the Owner of the Throne, secure [in position].Obeyed there [in the heavens] and trustworthy.And your companion is not [at all] mad.And he has already seen Gabriel in the clear horizon.” [Surah At-Takweer: 81:19-23]

The First Attribute: Power: The “Lord of the Throne” here refers to Allaah.

The Second Attribute: Position: “High rank with the Lord of the Throne. ” This means that he possesses a high position in the sight of Allaah, which no one else has reached.

The Third Attribute: Obedience: All of the angels obey Jibreel by the Permission of Allah.

truthman2012: Ignorant because I said it was Muhammad? Did any muslim see Gabriel? You only believe Muhammad said it was Gabriel. As far as early muslims were concerned, they only saw and heard Muhammad, not Gabriel.

And one of your minion on this thread was praising you as an intelligent person..SMH,

Excuse me sir, you are ignorant.

truthman2012: Even if it was Gabriel, why did he not use HE instead of WE as in: We HE makes no distinction between any of HIS messengers.

Please apply the 'HE' yourself to that verse you quote, and lets see how it makes sense..

Please do that now to prove to us you are not ignorant..

Emusan: My apology.
Then join this thread: https://www.nairaland.com/1859103/quran-linguistic-miracle-problem
You've said it all in the OP Allah only revealed the revelation that favour Muhammad.
Yet I still couldn't understand why the book that eternally exits with Allah before creation contains those historical verses.
According to Muslims Allah revealed the Qur'an
Angel Jibril
The problem with this is shifting in one pronouns to another and reference to external person/being within the same verse.

If you check the thread I provided above you will see more than this.
In pure Arabic YET MANY NON-Arabic words still appeared even in the original manuscripts.

Emusan: Through angel jibril
But also have it in mind that QURAN WAS PURELY ALLAH'S WORD which means it doesn't contain any human or angel word.
Like the surah you quoted above you can see where a PERSONAL pronouns like I,me was used which make it difficult to attribute it to Muhammad or angel Jibril AND where a THIRD person pronouns was used.
Join that thread so that I won't derail this one.

Emusan: My apology.
Then join this thread: https://www.nairaland.com/1859103/quran-linguistic-miracle-problem
You've said it all in the OP Allah only revealed the revelation that favour Muhammad.
Yet I still couldn't understand why the book that eternally exits with Allah before creation contains those historical verses.
According to Muslims Allah revealed the Qur'an
Angel Jibril
The problem with this is shifting in one pronouns to another and reference to external person/being within the same verse.
If you check the thread I provided above you will see more than this.
In pure Arabic YET MANY NON-Arabic words still appeared even in the original manuscripts.

Lets us meet on that thread..

Insha Allah bi kudratillah

I will reply everything in the OP tommorrow..

please bear with me..

My sub is finish and i will have to sub tomorrow...

So tommorrow i will sub to my laptop in other to reply you guys to my satisfaction.

Please bear with me..

I just hope i gain access to my laptop tonight,


there is a lot to say..

truthman2012: Muhammad. And so?

You are ignorant

I wont go deep into this now, let the person who first ask this question come. Then i will reply you at once..