₦airaland Forum

I actually checked the syring manufacturing - it's worth 25M dollars - what hell are you talking about here idiot.We are talking a billion dollar and above. Anything below that - please don't bring it to an INTERNATIONAL THREAD like this. Keep it in the low ambition threads that litter this forum.

Why should I hear about vision or dreams of nigeria? Make it real. Kenya is exporting manufactured goods to US - not nigeria. You're naira seem worthless to me.And the way you tried to milk MTN and the forex controls - why would a foreign investors - waste his money in Nigeria - you make be stuck with worthless naira - unable to convert them to USD.

samsobo24:
Have you heard of Akwa ibom syringe manufacturing plant,that's how irrelevant Kenya is to Nigeria, especially in the manufacturing sector

There are many lists out there - just proof to us that Nigeria education is a little better than we think it is - mediocre - by attempting to make sound arguments here.

For instance if you're truly interested in Africa big companies - Kenya's SAFARICOM - has to be there. Right now I think Safaricom with 12B dollar valuation - show be in top around position 7 in Africa.

http://risktakers.co.ke/2017/08/21/safaricom-rallies-africas-top-10-biggest-companies-league/

Daejoyoung:
Why is Kenya not on the list at all, that's the question.

Smilling n suffering - Nigeria cannot talk about manufacturing when 1) power supply is so erratic many nigerian think having stable 24-7 power is a miracle - 2) when it takes 30-50 days to clear goods from Nigeria ports - In kenya's Mombasa it takes on average 4 days.

Those two - plus infrastructure deficit (roads, railway) - together with other red-tape (see Ease of Doing business by World Bank) - make Nigeria economy very un-competitive - despite the 200m people and petro-dollars.

Kenya's is for 3rd yr running the most improved in "ease of doing business" - now only the likes of rwanda, mauritus and such beat kenya. We are targetting to be global top 50 in ease of doing business.
https://www.nation.co.ke/business/Property-registration-blots-ease-of-business-ranking/996-4165866-840a2p/index.html

Here is kenya's the many HUDUMA(service) Center - where you can access nearly all gov services in one building - and we have digitize alot of services..all paid through m-pesa (mobile money)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cv2gwTMXgAAnH1E.jpg

While still on banking - as far as total country's banking asset - Nigeria (2017) is $90B dollars (N33 trillion)- and kenya is $40 billion (kshs 4 trillion) - and Kenya banks are growing so fast - just where is this $500B gorillla giant? with 200M people and world's 3% of petrodollars

I mean your total banking assets is $90B dollars and ours is $40B dollars. COOKED GDP. Over-cooked GDP will not impress anybody.

South Africa who don't cook their GDP - have about $300B total bank assets. Just one bank STANBANK of South Africa total bank assets is equal to the GIANT's 18-22 BANKS -$86B versus 90B.

Come on NIGERIA. SMELL THE COFFEE!! The evidence is overwhelming and stop throwing around fake fake fake fake GDP of LAGOS and Nigeria.

Kenya ambition is South Africa. We respect South Africans and Egyptians - who are most definitely in the second world. Not lying Nigerians - a primitive third world country that relies on CRUDE OIL. If ETHIOPIA ever agrees to privatize/liberize it's banking sector - boy - we will be aiming at SOUTH AFRICA - not useless NIGERIA. Our banks are just circling Ethiopia ..and have already entered the Nigeria sibling DRC Congo

You need to understand how to analyze data - one outlier - is nothing to shout about. Secondly GTBANK is not that bigger than our top banks. Our banks are Africa (actually world) fastest growing.

As of 2017 - KCB was about $9B dollars in assets & Equity at 7B - and was only below 4 nigeria banks - who are howevering around $12B(AccessBank), $13B(GTBank),$14B(FirstBank) and 21$(Zenith).

Now if you check the growth rate of kenya banks - KCB (grew by 25% - Equity 12%) - then without doubt you know in 2018-2020 - Both Equity and KCB(most definitely) - will be better than all Nigeria banks - SAVE for Zenith Bank. The kenya bank growth is solid...amongst the highest global growth rate the last many years.

So KCB by this year if it's grows at 20-25% - will obviously overtake ACESS and GTBANK - and by 2019 - FirstBank - and then 2 more years - and Zenith Bank will be seeing KCB back - and Equity - and lot more like Cooperative Bank of Kenya (who already joined the global 1000 banks). And we won't force any of our 45 banks to merge - like South Africa or Nigeria - because the banking market requires small, medium, and large banks - we are in fact licensing more and more banks.
https://sokodirectory.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Top-25-banks.png
https://sokodirectory.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Biggest-mover-banks.png

obaaderemi:
I thought we already put this to rest. Gtbank never merged with any bank and it is as big as three of your banks put together. It's not even among the three biggest in Nigeria. Your economy is irrelevant in Africa.

When you have a well-diversified economy - nothing can bring it down. That is how resilient kenyan economy is. Nigerian economy obviously yoyos with global oil price. It such a shame you're still a banana country in 21st century. Kenya will grow at 5-7% for the foreseeable future. I don't see any internal or external risks that can take the us down. Even when the global economy sank - we still grew.

obaaderemi:
Kenyans and the field of economics are mutually exclusive. They are like oil and water that never mix. Manufacturing and agriculture have been declining for years. Factories are moving away and people are losing jobs, YET they keep telling the world their economy is growing. I think Kenya is about the only place on earth that happens.

Let take Yemi Kale's cooked stats at it HIGHEST. Oil & related as of 2017 Q2 account for 65% of export - and the rest is Sesame, Soya Beens & shrimps.
[img]https://images.dailytrust.com.ng/cms/gall_content/2017/9/2017_9$large_Nigeria_records_rise_in_non-oil_export.jpg[/img]

Also if you use 2013 data here -in 2Q - total value of non-oil export to Ecowas is mere 375m - with 40% of it manufactured - so that is about $150M - or $450M - per annum is the best they could!.
[img]https://www.proshareng.com/userfiles/11(18).jpg[/img]

That is the best the GIANT can do - in manufactured exports - I think kenya export of manufactured table salt alone is $100M plus .

If I am not wrong Nigeria export of manufactured goods will struggle to hit 1B dollars - Kenya is in my guestimate doing around 3B dollars worth of export of manufactured goods - or about half of the 5-6B dollars of total export.

And you now know why Nigeria is scared to sign the Africa Free Trade. Outside CRUDE OIL - there is nothing going on in there.

Muafrika2:
35% of exports, 90% of revenue

As in ... The remaining 65% of exports only bring in 10% revenue. Because most of it does not exist

My friend outside CRUDE OIL - you're nothing. Kenya lead in manufactured consumer goods in east and part of central africa -all the way down to Zambia, Congo and South Sudan - TZ,UG, BU & Rwanda - you'll find kenya manufactured goods in their shops or supermarkets - we are second in COMESA after Egypt - we are among the top(if not the top) in africa apparel manufacturing (clothes) that export to US of A - we of course kick arse in value-added agricultural products world-wide for a couple of commodities - chiefly TEA (world leading exporter) - flowers (world leading exporter - accounting for 1/4 of all flowers sold in europe) - horticulture - our coffee beans are some highest quality you can get- and of course I think we have overtaken south africa in diary - and soon you won't be importing milk powder from europe or newzeland - but Kenya. Even in nuts - I think we can beat you

shervydman:
The guy has serious problem. He has serious comprehension problem, I got this from his post n link.

What that link talked about is "COMESA" (common market for eastern and southern Africa). It's a 2016 article when SA was still part of COMESA and Nigeria is not part of COMESA. so, the article talked about countries in that bloc and not African countries in general.

Una wey dey parole with am dey try, abeg.

That is exactly what I have been telling them. If you remove their banks - which were forced to merge - after their banking crisis of 2000s - they have nothing. If kenyan banks were to merge -45 - into 18 like Nigeria or 4 like South Africa - they would definitely appear in the list.And still as of 2017 - KCB was just some few dollars short of 4 big Nigeria banks - my prediction is by 2020 - KCB and Equity will have out-paced Nigeria banks - in assets, return on assets and name any metric.

NairobiWalker:
Dude, a country of your size has only a few companies in the last fifth of the top 25 companies in Africa and you're here boasting? and all except one are banks that became big after merging? Heck if Kenya that's 4-5 times smaller than you would have a couple of banks in the top 25 if we merged our 45 banks to say 18 like you or lesser.

African trade remains centred on the three countries that have an appreciable manufacturing base — South Africa, Kenya and Egypt.

Egypt - the main exporter of consumer goods within COMESA.
Kenya - the second exporter of consumer goods in COMESA & leading in AGOA.
South Africa - SADC and most of Africa - source of consumer goods & even machinery.

Nigeria - is crying within ECOWAS - that small countries like Togo or Benin are out-compete them? And is now afraid to join the big boys in Africa Free Trade Pact. What a shame.

shervydman:
Pls, tell me what is being manufactured in those aforementioned countries.

Again you questions have already been answered. In Africa - South Africa, Egypt, Morroco and Kenya have decent manufacturing base - I think Ethiopia is not badly off now with their relentless bid to attract Chinese- and maybe we can add Nigeria or Dangote impressive cement monopoly in Nigeria.Sudan also a decent manufacturing.

African trade remains centred on the three countries that have an appreciable manufacturing base — South Africa, Kenya and Egypt.

https://www.nation.co.ke/business/Kenya-second-largest-exporter-of-goods-within-Comesa/996-3419400-13mktt7z/index.html

shervydman:
U have a very big issue and it's heartbreaking. Forgetting d % part of the discuss.

How many African countries are into manufacturing? when I talk about "manufacturing"; I mean "heavy manufacturing". Do u have a manufacturing base in Kenya? . Most light manufacturers in Africa are foreign companies. Even ur mobius automobile is owned by a briton. False??

Countries with huge mineral deposit relies on the mineral resources as a source of revenue. U can check anywhere in d world with huge mineral deposit that has large industrial output, I'll wait.

I saw over 90% - well it could be 91% or 95% or 99% - but basically you export only CRUDE OIL (and maybe kola nuts?) - nothing more. You have no manufacturing base.
You're a classic banana african country that relies on minerals - and whose economy tank with global commodity prices.

shervydman:
Lol, where did u see 95%?

How will that help us? You don't eat cooked stats. I have given you a good example - AGOA - let us compare what you export and what we do?

Daejoyoung:
Nigerian stats is cooked, then go cook yours, boil it and add ingredients

Absolutely on point - it's merely repackaging - finished chinese goods. zero value addition. That is why they are scared of Africa Free Trade.

sufferNsmiling:
I say in nigeria we do not have industries. In 2016 are industrial outputs was 18% of gdp today what is less than 12%. the industries we have do not manufacture all they do is import in bulk and repackage not manufacturing. A good example is powdered milk, butter, salts, cooking oil and a lot more are imported in bulk and repackaged in nigeria. South africa, kenya, ethiopia, ghana, zimbabwe all exports more to us them we export to them. The industries and not there they're just repackaging warehouses. See article below.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/382311/nigeria-gdp-distribution-across-economic-sectors/

Actually AGOA allows 6500 products from Africa to access USA market DUTY FREE and Nigeria just like banana republic Gabon, Chad and Angola can only sell OIL duty free to US. Nothing value-added. Just crude OIL. And they talk of manufacturing. Nigeria can only export crude oil - worth 3B dollars..while KENYA IS ON ITS WAY TO NEARLY 1B dollars worth of value-added export to US - mostly manufactured - never mind the distance.

Because most of Nigeria data is OBVIOUSLY over-cooked and unreliable (and that unfortunately is what everyone -wb/imf/cia- has to relie on); we have to find secondary sources of data to compare. One good example we can use is AGOA. Both Kenya and Nigeria are allowed duty free export to US market for many products (300 plus) under AGOA (Africa Growth and Opportuntiy Act) and it's good way to compare Kenya and Nigeria manufacturing. Remove Oil from Nigeria's AGOA trade - and there is nothing.

Remove Angola, Gabon and Nigeria Oil from AGOA - and Kenya leads sub-saharan Africa in exporting MANUFACTURED GOODS to the US of A under AGOA- never mind Nigeria is on the Atlantic and is nearer US of A.

Kenya's apparel export under AGOA is huge - so much the jeans you buy in NewYork is probably made in kenya. We are not talking chicken shiet siju Abu or ODU or whatever "manufacturing" - that re-packages chinese finished products in Lagos and distribute them. We are talking Kenyans making the Calvin Klein you will spend a fortune to buy in New york or California.

This is why your shie.t "manufacturers" cannot countenance free africa trade ---and are crying like small babies - yet officially they claim to be giant. Open up your market - and kenyan goods will flood your supermarket (the few you've got - that aren't already RSA dominated) - way more quality for way cheaper prices.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7rod4sVAAAehxt.jpg

1) Export of what? Oil? Oil is like 95% of you export and revenues remember
2) How can we objectively compare kenya and Nigeria - when you source data [nigeria stats] is COOKED?

Danielnino00:
Despite the huge recession in 2016 and other calamities brought on the country by bubu's government, our export still ranked well on the continent... yea,there was a sharp decease and stuff but as at 2016, Nigeria's export value was 35.5billion USD well below south Africa's, but far far fat ahead of the big mouthed folks from the far east
.Heck! even Ghana topped them..and Tanzania too




Before Mr Google calls it "cooked figures", the sources of the data are included... ..



http://www.worldstopexports.com/top-african-export-countries/

On point. Only those who have to be in Nigeria - I mean Oil expats - find themselves there. It tough place to eke a living. Meanwhile in Kenya - the last 2 US ambassadors chose to stay in Kenya when their term ended. Life in kenya is that good!!

TayserMahiri:
They cant survive and the few who do live there under incredible inducements and duress from overseas companies. And they look gloomy with freckles because of intense solar, steam and vehicle plumes in your disastrous cities.



We dont classify Asians like Lebanese as white people in Kenya. That word refers primarily to people of European descent. I know you classify bleached Nigerians like Bob risky as white too



What an Irony! Criminal Nigerians saying 'as far as they are not criminal'.



Because Nigeria is hostile to human survival

Sorry but I disagree. Our top politician are very very rich. I don't think you can begin to fathom what Mois or Kenyattas own.

kikuyu1:
Not true! MANY PEOPLE repeat this: I know of a Kihingu with massive DRC mineral holdings and tobacco in SA valued at 1.5 bn + in 2011 thereabouts. The Ndegwa family are minimum 1.5 bn$ also. Mwangi Equity is worth wayyyyy more since he secretly owns much stock via nominees and fronts. I personally know of 2 other Kyukes in this category active in flowers and tourism I'd rather not name.

Precisely. This is the brutal honesty that Nigeria need to embrace and then start climbing out of their hole. GRAND DELUSION OF 500B GIANT OF AFRICA will not translate into qualify of life nigerians deserve to enjoy with all that Oil. If Nigeria was to improve by 1% every year - they would make all black people proud. You have OIL. It just need leadership. Not Army Generals BONOBOS. Goodluck kind of leadership.

sufferNsmiling:
Our president did not sign because we have no industries left, most of the industries have parked out to other countries example in 1980 japan had 380 industries in nigeria today it is less than 6 industries. Most nigerians invest in other countries billions of us dollar. Our president cannot sign a deal for something we do not have . Over 80% of goods in nigeria are imported so what is he going to sign imported products example palm oil, rice and gary are smuggled into nigeria from benin republic.

I am not surprised. Kenya in 10yrs will have South Africans really worried.

TayserMahiri:
World Map by Quartiles of HUman Development Index, 2017

Indeed Nigeria despite cooking their GDP knows they cannot compete. I mean it like TZ in EAC. Kenya is mixing up with Egypt in COMESA - and we try our best - because we know - even if you fear South Africa or Egypt..what will you do with China? India? developed world? Their products even if you impose taxes and all barriers will still be cheap.Nigeria simply has no serious manufacturing....that is why Dangote is running roughshold over them...and has made money by unfair practices that cannot be allowed in a modern country.

As far as manufacturing goes...the big boys in Africa are undoubtedly South Africa, Egypt, Morroco and Kenya. Nigeria is struggling against Benin.Kenya products find it's way as far down as Zambia, west as Congo and north as Sudan...against strong competition from South Africa and Egypt.

I really doubt Nigeria has value chain needed for manufacturing - they've huge disorganized consumer market with very little spending power to me. Their retail sector is undeveloped. Kenya is slowing catching up with South Africa in both fronts.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DY0OE_5W0AA3Jwc.jpg
Not true - Ramaphosa signed. The so called African giant is afraid of what is being billed as the largest trade agreement after WTO. Please Nigeria wake up from your slumber and self-delusion - and smell the coffee!! What are you afraid of? Benin? Or Togo? Or Ghana or the real big boys like Egypt, South Africa, Kenya and Morroco..you know you fake GDP will be exposed.
https://www.fin24.com/Economy/sa-signs-african-free-trade-agreement-20180321

nwoke37:
South Africa hasn't signed up yet...

In short - you cannot compete - in Africa - because you have Africa's worst power & infrastructure - and the ECOWAS excuse is lame - because that is easy to resolve - the % of local content can be decided and agreed upon.

And the claim that Nigeria has big manufacturing outside South Africa - is hollow. When did Egypt die? And where are those Nigerian products - while Shoprite in Nigeria is importing nearly everything.

Kenya we belong to COMESA plus EAC...and we have south africans and egypt...compete with us.

Daejoyoung:
l also got this from your article...

But when all is considered, I will still think that PMB made the right decision not to attend. Firstly, it was an acknowledgment that though he had failed to consult with the organized private sector prior to getting the FEC’s approval, he regarded the red flag raised by the Manufacturers Association of Nigeria (MAN) especially and the Nigeria Labour Congress (NLC) serious enough.


Despite the embarrassment and the apparent slur on Nigeria’s image and standing by being absent in Kigali as Africa made true history, I salute his courage in deciding to err on the side of caution. It is my thinking that he was showing that Nigeria had learnt lessons from the WTO debacle in 1994. The Nigerian government at the time was criticized severely for rushing to sign the WTO agreements without fully understanding the ramifications of globalisation.

Buhari seemed not to want a repeat, where we would sign this African Trade deal as good as it sounds without a full understanding of its ramifications on local manufacturing and domestic security.

Secondly, critical issues raised by MAN truly require full answers. The area of major concern is how are we going to enforce the rules of Origin? The inconvenient truth is that except for a few countries – Egypt, Morocco, Kenya, Nigeria and South Africa, there is little real, manufacturing going on in much of Africa. Primary commodities yes, but not manufacturing. Today Nigeria perhaps has the largest manufacturing base outside South Africa.

In normal circumstances that should give Nigeria an advantage as it could easily seize the new open market opportunities to dominate the African market in manufactured goods. But experience from the ECOWAS Common External tariff (CET) for example, seem to dampen the enthusiasm of Nigerian manufacturers. It has been alleged that foreign companies set up ‘shell ‘ manufacturing companies in neighburing African countries and simply import finished or almost-finished products into such countries and subsequently off load them on the Nigerian market, often at lower prices than local manufacture. Matter is worsened for Nigerian manufacturers because much of their products are globally uncompetitive due to infrastructural deficits, especially power and the overall high cost of doing business. Thus Nigerian manufacturers suffer double jeopardy.

They cannot easily export to other African Countries because those countries have easy access to cheaper imports from Asia and Latin America especially. And then in the domestic market, the free import of what one may call pseudo- manufactured goods or what really are trans-shipped finished goods using African Countries as ‘transit camps’ compromise the viability of the locally manufactured goods. That is the fear of the local manufacturers.

It is this reality that has made the growth of the export of Nigeria’s manufactured goods to remain dismal and indeed has forced many Nigerian manufacturers to focus almost exclusively on the domestic market. This is the reason crude petroleum has remained the major export and foreign exchange earning item on the Nigeria’s economic menu. But having said all these, I still believe that in the long run it is imperative that Nigeria signs the treaty and joins the Continental Free Trade area (CFTA).

Of course - unless West Africans are stupid - we are living in era of globalisations - and you should be looking to invest or visit kenya - as we look to expand our business & trade to Nigeria. Yeah kenyans are ashamedly outwardly and worldly - thanks to our quality education. Dangote & your banks are looking at Kenya - as our dairy industry & tech firms are also looking to west Africa.

68816419:
My question to u is that , Do you think west Africans give a damn a bout Kenya?

While Kenya lead in the share of it's intra-africa trade (48-50%) and recently sign up to Africa free trade pact - Nigeria the GIANT refused to sign up - and admitted it cannot compete in Africa.

Here is a giant who is afraid to mix with the big boys of Africa's manufacturing ( Egypt, South Africa,Morroco and Kenya)

https://guardian.ng/features/justifying-nigerias-inelegant-refusal-to-sign-the-africa-trade-deal/

Who said we give a damn - we have whites and asians - and arabs (since 10th century) who call Kenya home - and cannot imagine living elsewhere - those enjoy the same rights as anybody.

We welcome everyone - whites,nigerians, asians - to come visit/invest/trade or as refugees!!-

in fact this year we decide all AFRICANS are welcomed to Kenya without the need of visa - they come and they get visa on arrival - and we don't expect any reciprocity.As for Rwanda and Ugandans - they are free to come and start working any day.
https://qz.com/1140737/kenya-has-scrapped-visa-rules-for-other-african-countries/

68816419:
hahahaha...well if you say they cant survive,, yes the wont, cause we wont allow them, unlike Kenyans we Nigerians don't give a damn about any white,Indians,Lebanese...we do respect them those and if they are genuine Nigerians then we wont have problem with them, we believe they dont have two heads rather same as we, and any white,Indians,Lebanese... that makes it big in Nigeria does that as a result of the fact that politician use him/her to hide their wealth....

EKO CITY -It’s the brainchild of the Chagoury brothers, two Nigerian-born billionaires of Lebanese descent who own South Energyx Nigeria Ltd, a real estate development company created to build out Eko Atlanti

68816419:
Even this guys hide under Tinubu's empire, the ruling elite in Lagos use the Lebanese Nigerians to hide their wealth, company like hitec is actually owned by Tinubu

I answered that - just learn to pay more attention.

Daejoyoung:
The question is why are they the foremost billionaires? 100,000 out of 45million people is still too small yet they dominate, and yes we have white Nigerians mainly Lebanese.

Do you have white nigerians Kenya has nearly 100,000 whites who consider Kenya their home. Some in their 5th generation.

Daejoyoung:
l don't think so.

Coz unlike Nigeria who had indirect british rule - kenya was direct british rule - and only whites+indians were allowed to do business - and after our independence in 1963 - African started from bottom up and we slowly kicked out or even banned indians from shops/retail business - and they went to manufacturing & other such sectors that Africans were not interested in - and they've made huge fortune. There is no doubt that Asians in Kenya(Indians) control huge part of the manufacturing and other sector. That is historical reality. But unlike Uganda who kicked out Asians and their economy tanked...we started from bottom up and now we are competing with them on equal footing.

The reason why Kenya is way better than nigeria in all aspect - is because of that direct rule - we had huge settler british community that kicked started our farming and tourism - indians did the trade and manufacturing - and we the Africans were smart enough to realize we didn't have to kick them out or be hostile - we just had to go to school and compete.

Otherwise we would be one giant 500B 200M joke of the world like Nigeria. I see you were quick to invite the ZIm white farmers.

It doesn't matter the colour of the cat - so say the chinese - as long as it catch the mice

Daejoyoung:
Why are they the foremost Entrepreneurs? We have 3rd generation Lebanese too.