South African are a little smart - at least when they get to Nairobi - they quickly cut their losses and ran. But Nigeria - all their banks are seriously burning capital - Hellios just got dupped by the French and bought a shell for I think 300M usd. The thing they bought has no chance in hell - and they've sunk more and more money. I think at end of it - Hellios would have dug 1B dollar hole in Kenya.

justtoodark:


why do you think we still allowed south africans companies to stay in nigeria....??

nigerians piss me off with their pan africana nonesense....i hate it....

nigeria should be another continent and separate from other blacks...

That obviously is nonsense.He was just vodafone employee who was sent down to Nairobi - long after Safaricom was running.

obaaderemi:
You should have kept quiet and pretend you didn't see the post.
Michael Joseph reveals that he started Safaricom
at Norfolk apartment

https://kenyannews.co.ke/business-news/michael-joseph-reveals-that-he-started-safaricom-at-norfolk-apartment/

The founders were Telkom(Kenya)+Vodafone(UK). I think you're looking for Michael Joseph who was appointed the CEO around 2007 and turned around Safaricom - then Airtel Kenya (now) was bigger and Safaricom was struggling due to Telkom.

Hellios came to kenya and like all nigeria fools - they've burn the petro-dollars! That is what Nigeria do anyway - get petro-dollars and waste - Hellios made a smart investment in Equity Bank - then cashed out - and invested in a dying company - Telkom Kenya.

I mean how do you buy Telkom Kenya - the french Orange made an exit like everyone else - and now Hellios are burning money like combusition engine burning oil.

Daejoyoung:

ok fine, give us the names of the founders. Also what of Kenya telecoms belonging to Helios( founded by Nigerians)? This is not a big deal though, it's just ironic because you always say Nigeria knows nothing aside oil.

You're smart sometimes - and that I think is the smart thing to do - without Nigerian army stepping up - when Oil hit the fan (and it's hitting soon if you've been reading news) - Nigerians will have a go at each other - and military has to step in.

Just draw a scenario where oil is being sold for 10 dollars a barrell...and gov revenue is 90% from that oil...that would mean your 30B dollar budget....will drop by 6% to 5B dollars!

Nigeria gov will collapse...and there will be free chaos...with 200M people blaming each other. Biafrans & Muslim north will start going at each other.

So yes the future of Nigeria for me is a military rule....just keeping law and order by force.

justtoodark:


we are a militaristic nation....ofcourse a general will be leader....duhhh....

me,am even against any civilian becoming president....

Safaricom was not started by a foreign. It was started as dept of Kenya Telkom with vodafone (strategic partner) owning 40%; and kenya gov (60%). The shareholding is still roughly that way. Vodafone 40%; Public (IPO) -25% and Gov of Kenya (35%).

obaaderemi:
Give me the name of the man who started safaricom(Kenya's biggest company) if he is not a foreigner, I'll leave this thread. Likewise Möbius and nakumatt. Where's the lie in my post. And Kenya telecom belongs to a company founded by Nigerians.

It matters. That is why upto now you're ruled by Generals. Because under-paid low motivated army is dangerous. You've had many disastrous years under generals including the Sani Abacha. Our kenyan military are so well paid - they can't even think about getting out of barracks - which is why we have enjoyed peace for all those yrs - save for 1 day mutiny in 1982 - that was crushed in matters ours.

Again our military force is well paid, well disciplined and one of best worldwide.

How can giant have budget of 1.5B dollars for a military force that defend 200M people

Again don't over-cook your GDP.

justtoodark:

and does it realy matter....??

let me ask you something....

was that area you call kenya today not conquered and colonized too...??

Nigeria has enough problem to worry about external forces. Biafrans and the usual muslim-christian schism is enough. You just need a few yrs of oil price tumbling down - for recession to kick in - and for Nigeria to go neck to neck.

As of now - your giant cannot defend itself against Boko haram - leave alone well disciplined and resourced force like Kenya.

justtoodark:


nigerian army was not ready for such a war...facts....our army is conventional...invade other nations suff....

was not ready for internal fights....we never tut it would be necessery....

confront nigeria in a conventional war and you would loose very quick....

look,am not interested to feel better than kenyans by putting them down...am a rascist...confirmed....

anything not black is an abomination to me....

Nigerian army which is unable to defeat Boko Haram! Again it's come down to BUDGET.

Nigerian army budget is $1.5B dollars! And Kenya's 2017 total security budget is $2.64 - with $1.2B dollars just reserved for the army and the rest for police.

A kenyan private earns more than Nigerian major. You don't want to know what Kenyan Major earn - about how much you pay your GENERALS. And you wonder why you can't defeat boko-haram and whole world has to pray for chibook girls.

Do you really know our military budget is more than whole of East Africa (including Ethiopia) combined.

2015 -Morocco leads in Africa with a Defence budget of $3.3 billion, followed by South Africa ($3.1 billion) and Angola $2.8 billion.Sudan is fourth at $2.7 billion while Nigeria is fifth at $1.7 billion. Kenya is eighth behind Tunisia and Algeria, excluding Egypt and Libya whose data were not made public.

I bet by 2017-2018 - now - we may even overtake Nigeria in military budget - . You're only a GIANT IN COOKED GDP.

justtoodark:


they are going nowhere....nigerian army will beat the shitt out of them....

now they are waiting for a foreign nation to invade nigeria and give them biafra....this is how black societies collapsed....

you kenyans are challenging who exactly....?

why dont you go challenge a none black nation...??

ohhh,i get it...foreign nations scare the shitt out of you...

You're doing a terrible job at it. I am not surprised Biafrans want to secede.You're like an albatross on everyone's neck.

justtoodark:


what....??

you kenyans dont understand whats going on around una....

look,we will bash una the same way we bash biafrans at home....

they cant reason too...propaganda doesnt replace facts on ground....

biafrans had to learn that the hard way....

I know you're hoping I'll say Iphone? But Kenya lead Africa in many innovation - from agriculture (several world class research have produce new clones or solved diseases) - fin-tech - technology - clean energy - health - etc - Globally we lead in mobile/digital payments popularly known as M-PESA and related.

Daejoyoung:

What are you guys innovating that makes you think you are ahead? What are you innovating that we don't even see? List your innovations.

The thing is dead..it was just irrational exuberance when oil was 140 usd per barrel...Nigeria without Oil is nothing...so they have to wait until oil price rally..otherwise where is the money to build that city going to come from?

kikuyu1:

We've mentioned more than once about your low rate of established retail outlets AND THAT REALITY IS BITING YOU IN THE ARSE-AS USUAL! Rvp2017,find some details on this EAC Naijjans are always bleating about-you know we can't trust professional story tellers for anything.

I am not surprised. You're ignorant and proud of it. It's one of busiest payments in the world - that emerged out of Kenya and in kenya alone it's processes 1.5 billion payment transactions. Many countries including Ghana are doing okay but Nigeria simply made a mess out of it. They let the banks - instead of telcoms- to ran it and now - 5yrs later - only 1% of Nigeria have heard or used about Mobile Payment - and they are guys with bank account - not the real target - the 140M extremely poor nigerians - leave alone the 60M poor ones.

jason14:
what the hell is M-pesa ? iv not heard of it

That is Saudi & OPEC plan. Maybe you should ready about what Trump and China are planning. Actually doing. US is ramping it's production and China is building it's oil reserves. And long term - clean renewable energy is replacing oil & coal.

nwoke37:


Oil prices won’t hit 10$ in the next 10 yrs. in fact oil prices are on an upward trend. It’s currently around 74$. Saudi Arabia and opec is earmarking for it to increase between 80$ and 100$

When you stop over-cooking your GDP we can argue.

jason14:
yes a fastest growing slum with a GDP higher than ur entire country lool

dude when Kenya's GDP gets to Lagos own(Lagos oo not even Nigeria) then we can argue

The past - before there was the talk of climate change - there was times including recently when it was 15 dollars a barrel - Renewable clean energy is the future.Many developed countries are planning to ban petrol or diesel cars by 2030! It will be total annihilation; the same with coal.Nigeria have wasted all their petro-dollars - including building a new slum city in Abuja...and they are seemingly unable to function without oil.Factories or power station that ran on diesel are being de-commissioned. In the short-term China is building a huge reserve of Oil so they won't be coming to the market a lot. Your gov revenues are all from oil. You guys need to really wake up before it's too late.

nwoke37:

I really doubt oil prices going as low as 10$...

@Kikuyu -
Did you know that as we speak total number of mobile money (m-pesa & equitel) transactions are around 1.5B per year. Visa- the world busiest (unless it been overtaken by China's Union) total global transactions are 28B. So already M-PESA is among the world busiest payment systems..and it's growing at a furious pace!

EuroMonitor: Fastest growing cities in Africa 2017 - but if you're looking for fastest growing slums - then Lagos and Kinshasa are in hot competition.

https://blog.euromonitor.com/2017/02/economies-2017-top-10-african-cities-growth-2017.html

According to you - maybe? Very authoritative

68816419:
Fastest developing city in Africa!

You're a reflection of what Nigerian suffering is talking about. You're the poster child of Nigeria very poor education. I said very plain English that kenya is ranked amongst countries you can describe as second world....South Africa is not 3rd world like Nigeria or Kenya. And while kenya is making progress toward second world - Nigeria is regressing further to compete with Niger, Chad and South Sudan.

While you regress - kenya ranked "worse" than only South Africa, Mauritus, Morroco and Tunisia - which are second world countries.

68816419:

leave this stupids Kenyans alone with their delusional attitude, who ever called Kenya "Second world countries," is mad, Kenya is more like 5th world country.

Take you advice. There is no way China or South Africa can be equal to Nigeria or Kenya. And yet they are not at developed world stage yet. So yeah roughly speaking South Africa, Tunisia, Morrocco and Mauritus are second world. And Kenya is competing with them...while Nigeria is competing with Niger...in bottom 10...in that global innovation map. Get it?

jason14:
do you even know what second world country means ? stop talking rubbish and go and find out what second world means . u think it's by having electricity and tall buildings that u are a second world country? china has abundant skyscrapers and electricity still they are still third world

Nigeria are amazing in their delusion. You'll never admit that the giant is naked.And no- it not about policies - they have lots of SOLID indicators there - and Nigeria is just doing very badly - nearly bottom 10 - and it's seem to get worse - Kenya has improved from position 99 to 80 (jumped nearly 20 countries) - while Nigeria has regressed around from 120-128!

While you regress - kenya ranked "worse" than only South Africa, Mauritus, Morroco and Tunisia - which are second world countries.

https://www.globalinnovationindex.org/analysis-indicator

Daejoyoung:

What are the Zimbabweans innovating? Read the report again it's all about policies driving innovation. We all know Nigeria is not perceived as conducive place for business and these reports are more about that and nations with policies driving innovations

Kikuyu1 - I think by the time Nigerians realize what's happening in Kenya - as far as M-PESA & related revolution - it will be too late for them. The figures are staggering and for the first time last Quarter (Jan-March) - mobile commerce overtook p2p transfters - and crossed 10B dollars in a Quarter!! - so annually - you're looking into total of nearly $80B dollars (our GDP) being transacted - with about 50B dollars of it as m-commerce (not the primitive peer to peer transfer) -- and it's growing at crazy rates (60% for mobile commerce & 15% for p2p). The mobile loans are already over $1B dollars if am not wrong and they are growing at equally crazy rates!. They are about 200,000 agents supporting mobile economy and it also growing. The economy is formalizing - and lets' not even talk about ICT - where kenya leads with broadband speed that rivals the best in the world.

https://www.businessdailyafrica.com/corporate/companies/Kenyan-mobile-money-deals-hit-Sh1-7trn/4003102-4244878-h58cee/index.html

kikuyu1:


Nigeria are stuck at 1st telecommunication revolution - while kenya is revving the engine that will fire next decade.

Nigeria attempt at mobile money has failed...nothing works there except for extraction of oil.


Ordinarily that mortgage rate would be shocking but luckily not everyone here is impervious to intelligence and can see the obvious! Your posts gladden my heart. I've also said I can easily foresee the bolded happening in that timeframe. Never go away!

The last say 15yrs - most of growth in sub-sahara - was down to commodities price rally (oil barrel @100 dollars) and telecommunication - the next 15yrs will be harsh for economies that depend on oil (Nigeria & Angola) - because Oil is going to sell for as low as 10 dollars (when Nigeria depend on it for 95% of it's revenue/taxes) - and digital revolution in finance+ICT like is happening in kenya will drive the economy forward. In Nigeria mobile money has simply refused to grow - stuck at 1% -5yrs later - while in Ghana they are hot on the heels of kenya - although Kenya is so faaaar ahead - just the same way it's ahead in internet/broandband. Therefore my bold prediction are that kenya will continue to grow at very high rates...while Nigeria will continue to regress with Oil. They are simply unable to shake off the oil curse/dutch disease.

.

nwoke37:


I doubt this report though, I see Iran and Egypt becoming larger than Nigeria

I know I vowed not to make any more comments until 2019 - but I had to do this - as I read some kenyan investment take on our gov 5-yr plan.The giant with their gigantic banks - are doing far worse than kenya in mortage

https://cytonnreport.com/research/affordable-housing-in-kenya-cytonn-weekly-162018-1#focus-of-the-week
Anyway the Big plan for next yr as far as our gov goes
Food and Nutrition Security – The government plans to achieve 100.0% food security through enhanced large-scale production, boosting SME productivity and reduction of food costs,
Manufacturing – The aim is to grow the contribution of manufacturing to GDP from 9.2% in 2016 to 20.0% by 2022 through establishment of industrial parks, Special Economic Zones and implementation of policies to boost processing of textiles, leather, oil, gas, construction material, foods, fish, iron and steel,
Affordable Healthcare – This aims to increase the current universal health care coverage in Kenya from 36.0% to 100.0% by 2022 through scaling up NHIF uptake, increased budgetary allocation to health and adoption of low cost service delivery models, and,
Affordable Housing – The government plans to deliver 1 mn units over the next 5-years out of which, 20.0% will be social housing while 80.0% will be affordable housing.

And what does the future portend.

Finally the last 15yrs the kenyan economy has grown from strength to strength - from 13B to now 80B (it could be more when it get re-based); I don't see what can stop this growth; infact I see it accelerating as we transition demographically (for the first time those under 0-5 yrs are less than those 5-10yrs!!!) and our pop growth rate is dropping to 2.5% - couple with mobile commerce & mobile banking (m-pesa effect) I only see kenya growing bigger and bigger.

My prediction for kenya GDP - based on the last 15yrs - the fact that economy is so well-diversified & the growth so broad-base (no one sector) - is that Kenya GDP will hit $100B in 2020 (this will be apparent when GDP will be rebased around 2011/2012- current base yr is 2009). And it will hit $200B around 2026. $300B around 2030 - at that point - Kenya will be about equal to South Africa level now ( Of course South Africa will have move to around $400 plus ). But around 2035- kenya and South Africa will be equal. It may sound crazy!!! But we shall see - kenya economy is about just started - it's foundation is solid!

Nigeria future is gloomy!

I wish I could say the same about Nigeria - it already lost 100B since they rebased - now 400B - and are happy with 1% growth rate - and will fall or grow with Oil. I don't see any great future with oil - with climate change and all electric vehicles - Nigeria better prepare for world where demand for oil will be very very low. Nigeria better wake up - I know they haven't prepared for this - the Saudis and Norwegians will be set for life - they have nearly a trillion dollars just banked for the rainy day!! But Nigeria have squander their oil petro-dollars and the party is coming to end. Without Oil - & without a strong economic base - Nigeria state will go into turmoil - it's best bet is for military junta to take over like they did in Brazil (when shit hit the fan - before the current re-awakening) - otherwise it may splinter into 3-4 countries(the muslim north, the yoruba & related, and the biafra).

Kenya GDP - past and my own projection.
2002 13
2003 15
2004 17
2005 19
2006 27
2007 32
2008 36
2009 37
2010 40
2011 42
2012 50
2013 55
2014 62
2015 64
2016 71
2017 75
2018 80
2019 90
2020 101
2021 113
2022 127
2023 142
2024 159
2025 178
2026 199
2027 223
2028 250
2029 280
2030 314
2031 352
2032 394
2033 441
2034 494
2035 553

Sounds great. I think like polythene bag; we just need to eventually bite the bullet and ban second hand clothes. It will unlock lot more jobs - tailors and such - than EPZ that we export to US. The US i doubt can cut AGOA coz we refuse to buy their hand-me-down.

Pavore9:


The urban Kenyan woman is increasingly appreciating the Nigerian prints and designs as you need to see the volumes of fabrics coming into Nairobi from Lagos on a weekly basis.

There is a quiet influx of Nigerian trained tailors into Nairobi, then sew in their apartments and some sharp minded Kenyans buy off from them and upload for sale on Kilimani mums etc after the Nigerian has made a healthy profit

Of course our textile export global brands to US of A...worth nearly half a billion dollars. That is a fact. The other fact is we also buy back second hand clothes from US. So we can sell them Calvin Klein for 100 dollars..and buy it back at 10 dollars...after a season or two...

Of course many countries want to end the second hand clothes trade - it's not dignifying - Rwanda has done it - but US are threatening to torpedo the whole AGOA if we won't take their hands-me-down and last season dead stock.

And yeah kenya need to learn from nigeria...in wearing their own clothes..but not african prints please..every day. We simply should get out of the undignified business of second hand clothes.

Daejoyoung:

But you started this whole textile debate to show that Kenya is far better at it, and that Nigeria is all about oil and nothing else.

And so while we export nearly half billion dollars worth of textile to US - we import about the same as second hand clothes (about 100,000 tonnes ) - or 4,000 trucks of clothes- worth about 100M usd.

So maybe there is something to learn about Nigeria prints But kenyans are so used to western clothing - I don't think they can wear multi-colored print everyday - so we will continue wearing second hand or last season clothes dumped to us from the US.

This should be your national bird. Kenyan people - majority -esp the kikuyu tribe - are so frugal - so hardworking - and will save every penny - and die with millions in the bank. That is what drive kenya. Our hard-work, frugality,co-cooperativeness and sense of purpose - we simply don't have time for fashion or music. Kenyan dream is just to own & keep as much wealth as possible and to transfer it to their kids. Not to waste it in fashion or travelling or luxuries.We rather import tonnes of second hand and last season fashion from us or uk - than design or make our own expensive african prints.[b][/b]

Daejoyoung:

No o, stay and learn more...


In recent times, the global demand and discussions on African inspired clothing has led to tremendous boost in sales for some African designers and brands whose works have caught the eyes of international personalities including Beyonce, Michelle Obama, Rihanna, and Thandie Newton. The potential for this billion dollar market has birthed a need for African-led ecommerce fashion platforms to create structures that will not only cater to global demands, but also help upcoming brands to thrive.

With a population of 170 million, the fashion ecommerce industry in Nigeria is still underserved, a weak match for the growing internet users in the country. However, a Nigerian company is making waves by leveraging on technology to create an online platform that would be a one-stop shop for fashion. Fashpa.com is Nigeria’s premier online fashion retailer. Fashpa is vertically integrated; it designs, manufactures and distributes its line of clothing. It retails the clothing online and offers delivery throughout Africa and the World.

Source.. Forbes.com

Yes I have to agree - there is nothing the congolese love than fashion and music. They don't give a damn about anything else.They don't care about their country going to the dogs - as long as they can look good!dance to their music! and eat their curry!

Pavore9:


Yes we share so much with the Congolese. When you talk of food, they are so very close to Nigeria. Do get a lot of food items from Congo which are obtainable back home in Nigeria.