₦airaland Forum

funshyboi:
I was told the connection won't need a charge controller as the current the panels will generate won't be to much for the battery. Stand to be corrected tho

... as soon as the batteries are reasonably "full", the battery voltage would rise rapidly to match that of the PV output. Unless the incoming current (after deducting loads and losses) is really small compared to battery capacity (typically 4% or less). Given those conditions being met, you're likely to damage your battery from undercharging. As you can see, either way is a lose-lose. Slip in a cheap but functional CC and you'll minimise the possibility of a premature battery death or worse, a fire.

NiyiOmoIyunade:
One of the problems I have come to see with the Lithium vs Lead Acid comparison is comparing unlike terms - comparing a premium or above average Lithium battery like BYD or PylonTech vs basic lead acid batteries.
....
By then also, I will have 5 years + of field experience from Ogas Pranil, DapSyra and Hancock to support my decision.

Interestingly Felicity have a Lithium offering that is priced pretty juicily and backed up by good support. Those are the kind one could take a risk on as the entry price is within the reach of us common men.

Always a pleasure to read from you. In my opinion, both battery types require some babysitting and monitoring. The energy density and corrosion issues are what lead has going against it. Maybe energy losses (as heat) while charging. Issues surge and DoD? Sizing the bank appropriately deftly caters to this. My US Battery banks for clients last an average of 3 - 4 years despite abuse in every single case. I still see no reason to discard lead chemistry. And I have LiFePo4 batteries with irregular use which I have been charting for many years now. While lithium is fun to use, it is not what I need. My appliances and energy requirements have been so fine tuned that surprises won't knock me off balance and redundancies would absorb all but the most unforeseen catastrophic event - and there's the backup LiFePO4 to ward that off (the lithiums have refused to die even with infrequent charging after 80% discharge). I suspect lithium might be the solution of the near future, if not overtaken by some other chemistry or energy storage device.

Let everyone believe what they would but choose wisely what would suit your needs. Ones application-specific requirements might not be the trending choice.

eleojo23:
Please what do you guys think about battery desulphators? Any Experience with them?
Do they really improve battery life?

cc: Hancock, adrusa, SolnergyPower, NiyiOmoIyunade

I recommend searching through this forum for the answers provided. Summary: while some might swear by them, lack of empirical evidence makes their proven usefulness dodgy. Many believe they're nothing but snake oil. I believe in desulphators (a select few brands with track records).

adrusa:
Thank you Sapiro. I eventually got a 2017 version that upgraded the CC minimally and allowed me to configure the CC. Thanks.

My pleasure

hancock:
On the contrary, I get the point. I am just wondering why are cables sold as 10mm/10mm2 or 50mm/50mm2 in this part of the world ?
What does the 10mm represent and what does the 10mm2 also represent? Clearly they don’t compliment each other if you consider the diameter and area logic
Don’t mind me , this is my OCD in mathematics kicking in

The mm unit suffix is presumed to be the same (and often used interchangeably) with the mm². Consider it the shorthand form.

earthrealm:
....

@topmost, 90mm2 cable na mission impossible, it would be as thick as an infants forearm and would cost upto 10k per meter

Interstingly, just about twice the thickness of the 50mm² cable though quite pricey as you've deduced.

earthrealm:
exactly, as i stated above, i used 50mm2/50mm cable for the 4kva 48v inverter. talk about killing an ant with a sledge hammer. twas in the days of ignorance shaa

No ignorance there; you were operating well within recognised/acceptable limits (distance of the cable run plays a huge role in determining the cable size chosen). Perhaps not cost effective but fewer headaches on the long run. So long as your breaker/fuse can protect your cable/equipment, you're fine. Breakers/fuses are primarily for protection of the cable (in our own RE case). In the instance of considerably oversizing the cable to avoid overheating/fire issues, you'll size your breakers/fuses to the lowest value that would protect your equipment while avoiding nuisance tripping. [s]If you're certain of your connections and in a good mood, you could go a bit higher though that practice is unsafe and highly discouraged, even for pros[/s]. Have safety gloves and a fire extinguisher handy at all times.

hancock:
95mm2 is the square area of the cable and not the diameter
So a 10mm diameter cable will have an area of (3.14x5x5=78.5mm2) while a 12mm diameter cable will have an area of (3.14x6x6=113.04mm2) etc.....

I believe a 10mm cable should suffice for the tax

10mm cable is actually 10mm².
95mm² cable is real and quite thick (I use it on the +ve input to my Victron inverter). Consider that 300mm² cables exist

adrusa:
Morningstar CC has a fatal weakness that kept me away from it. If the battery disconnects from the CC in the afternoon when there is sun, or if you mistakenly connect the PV before you connect the battery, the CC will catch fire and be damaged. I will never touch a MorningStar, ever.

I believe one won't really describe it as a design flaw. Literally all Chinese CC have that problem (I wouldn't know of Fangpusun clones of Outback and Victron). Of the common CC, it would appear Victron, Midnite and Outback have found ways to mitigate that problem.

Saipro:
The Fangpusun, while a good product (like the Victron prototype), isn't of the same performance. The algorithm isn't as robust and that minimal difference might cause enough drift to wreck your battery bank. I advise against it. Especially as you're heavily invested in Morningstar already. What's one unit more?

Having said that, I have a few brand new, in-the-box Victron and Fanpusun gadgets for sale
- Victron VE.Direct 375VA 48VDC inverter
- Victron BMV 702 (with shunt and cables)
- Fangpusun 100/50 MPPT charge controller (display also available)
- EpSolar (Epever) 150V 60A MPPT
- three new units of Midnite SPD 300V

Used for less than year (then retired) but in perfect working order are
- Victron VE.Can 150/70 MPPT charge controller
- Victron VE.Direct 150/85 MPPT charge controller
- Victron VE.Direct 375VA 48VDC inverter
- Victron VE.Direct 800VA 48VDC inverter
- Victron Color Control GX

This is not a distress sale. Just a surplus listing
WhatsApp/Call O8O 3961 2147

NiyiOmoIyunade:
Well said Oga GeorgeD
For this very reason I have 3 MorningStar MPPT 60a units and as I take my array to 15kw I have been struggling whether to purchase a Fangpusun as the 4th unit or stick with MorningStar. Very likely I will stick with MorningStar even though it costs twice the price of a similar Fangpusun unit.

My experience when I snagged up a Victron Quattro 8Kva was similar, I moved from a place of wondering whether my 6kw Red VilPower Star would randomly pack up one day (has a very failure prone control board) to a place of quiet confidence and assurance with Victron.

The Fangpusun, while a good product (like the Victron prototype), isn't of the same specs. Stellar performance, yes but the algorithm is a bit different in implementation and that minimal difference might cause enough drift to wreck your battery bank. I advise against it. Consider it similar to mixing batteries of same capacity but different makes. Especially as you're heavily invested in Morningstar already. What's one unit more?
PS: Victron units are absurdly durable and will tolerate ridiculous levels of abuse, as bigrovar previously stated.

adrusa:
Isn't anyone using Fangpusun/Victron Clone here? Please help a brother.

I have installed a few. Your best bet is to get an earlier version of the app. The newer versions will request an update (which might brick your device). The settings provided by the rotary switch should suffice for most uses.

Avoid firmware updates unless absolutely required for the functionality you require. I've been burnt twice so I am somewhat experienced now. You could PM me if you run into issues with the earlier apps though I foresee none.

nonoski:
100m is about 33 storeys height.

I believe it's 10m u wanted to write which is within the standard for most stanchion or UB

.... I meant 100m

ceaser:
You may only be to enjoy wind turbine if you stay in certain locations which may include but not limited to shorelines, city outskirts, farms with very few overhead vegetations. These are my experience with places with fairly good wind speed, although I have not used wind energy myself.

If you live in cities and especially in those with serious overcast heavy air as seen in industrialised cities like PH, you may not get adequate wind speed to enjoy a turbine except if installed several meters into the air.

I stand to be corrected from wind energy users sha.

Most parts of the country do well with wind turbines. I've experimented successfully in the Middle-Belt. The typical issue is mounting it a few metres above the rooftop. You need rigs with heights in excess of 100m in most locations. In essence, it is viable as a commercial venture but would be gainful for only the most hardcore hobbyist.

earthrealm:
...big leagues is any setup that consistently hits 500% panel array and above.
Btw your display is a lil confusing, whats the 3.76kwh stand for?

My 3kWp array doesn't often exceed an average of 8-9kWh/day unless I go beyond my typical DoD of less than 80%. I do twice that on days I deliberately attempt to max out. And I don't even consider that any league. Just regular stuff. Check out GeorgeD1, NiyiOmoIyunade et al for massive arrays and big league harvest.

olaolu11:
How do I get a member on this loop aside the person making contact? I am trying to get juo.
I have gone back some to see if I can get one of his posts and connect from there but I didn't see any recent one.

Incidentally, I went back to beginning of this thread and saw names that were movers of this thread then that are now extinct. Your contributions are invaluable, pls come back o

Everyone is alive and well. Retirement, perhaps. Most read silently. Even I have been away for some weeks on vacation too.

Spy360:
Is George D back?
You and Odilibe.
God fathers of fta nairaland.
Please where is Olenyi? My first tutor.

The godfathers never left. The house got rowdy

Topmost11:
Half knowledge is no knowledge o.
Now I get my questions answered. Voc and Isc is the deal in panels not the 12 or 24volts. My panel has Isc as 60a and Voc as 190v. So I can do my calculations myself from here. Thanks all.

I'm not sure what you've contrived here but it sounds dangerous. An Isc of 60A (not sure how you arrived at this figure) is something to beware. Especially when coupled with a VoC of 190V. That's some heavy power for a DIY enthusiast.

Commonly circulating panels suggest a 5s7p configuration. Even at 250W panels, that's some serious juice flowing through your system. I hope you have enough safety nets in place.

NiyiOmoIyunade:
When all original goals are met, I just invent new stretch goals e.g I recently snapped up an 8Kva Victron Quattro just to play with at home, it was a fun weekend separating neutrals and rejigging my setup just to work with Victron

From my current ~11kw of panels, I plan to upgrade to ~16kw and a couple of new Victron Phoenix inverters in parallel by the end of the year.

The new mantra is now energy oversufficiency with multiple points of redundancy all built around renewable energy

It's fun.
It's also capital intensive.
Keep up the good work. We learn by rote!

ojeysky:
Hmm....this is interesting, you got over 3.1kw on a 3kw array, can you confirm if your array is exactly 3kw?

Actually 3,060Wp (255W × 12) in 4s3p configuration. Besides, it's the instantaneous max seen that day. I remember having spoken of "cloud edge glare" here previously.

Seeing such isn't what fascinates me. What's impressive is the age of the panels versus performance. At 3pm on an average day, they output between 2.2kW and 2.5kW. On brilliant afternoons, >2.6kW. Midday yields are typically around 2.7kW to 2.9kW. It's phenomenal.

So, here's a retrospective review of product quality.

Amazing harvest from a 3kWp PV array (hit nameplate yield). More amusing is the solar panels are knocking 3 years. CC is a Victron Bluesolar MPPT 150/85. Display is via a Victron CCGX. Screenshot via Victron VRM.

Even I am wowed (which doesn't happen often).

Thanks NiyiOmoIyunade for compelling me to switch to Canadian Solar panels. Thanks Zeestone for the supplies.

Ahyjo:
I’ve seen one selling at 20K

That sucks. Was hoping for a sweet deal like microgiant's. Sadly, I was offered the same for 8k each a while back; I disregarded it on account of thinking the batteries were wash. The ones I bought are still alive till this day.

Dishtech:
His batteries are lithium phosphate battery and has BMS in them rated 11-14.6volt
His charging is designed for external using SCC program for over voltage cutoff of 14.6v

I'd like to buy a few units. Any help/link?

microgiant:
Dishtech is already using the same type of batteries in series and charging with solar using PWM CC. The PWM CC has user programmable parameters.

Kindly give me a phone number I can call you on/send WhatsApp messages to.
Or reach me on O8O 239O 23O5

chris81964:
How recent is the firmware? Thanks

This month

chris81964:
I have the Victron and I have the same issue too. I also use the Conext MPPT 60 150 and it does not have the issue. My lithium ion batteries don't get fully charged with the Victron. It goes into absorbtion and float very quickly. Raise your float voltage and see if it helps.

The new MPPT firmware update fixes this issue. The corresponding VictronConnect app hasn't been released though.

Trippledots:
Very true. The small apc ups i use has a 60% efficiency rate. My load on it is very light anyway so i can manage with it. At the back of my mind tho i know im wasting scarce energy.

The 1500VA APC I have in storage here has an efficiency comparable to most inverters I've tried. It's however an online UPS (belonging to the line-interactive series), whatever that's supposed to mean (it syncs its output frequency to that of the input, so long as it's within acceptable limits and in a way, runs as a continuous inverter - which is fine for off-grid installations). It's a 24V unit and has a tare consumption of roughly 25W (measured with a clamp meter and a WizBang Jr.)

Edit:

Check this link.
Read this too for understanding delta conversion online UPS

The low efficiency referred to is a function of the continuous supply of the load by the inverter even when there's grid power (it first converts to DC then back to AC, protecting from surges, brownouts and whatever distortions/disruptions there might be). The inverter itself is very efficient. The online function can be disabled via the management software and it functions in mere passthrough mode.

It handles surge current draw devices just fine and can power either of my freezers or a freezer, not more than one at a time thought there's a trick to making it power two of them.

earthrealm:
My take is for you to be careful.
Fangpusun isnt paying you any money for advertising/using their products...and wudnt come to your defense if things go south...
I believe fangpusun stole victons software/tech from the americans, tweaked it , repackaged n rebranded it. Theft is theft...Victron may be willing to spend in excess of $200k to squash lil guys like you/teach them a lesson, and it doesnt affect their balance sheet, meanwhile $200k may impact seriously on your company
Dont be a little guy caught inbetween a fight between 2 big guys..

There's wisdom in towing this line.

ceaser:
What in solar world is wrong with this dude? He is so full of himself. Is he a white guy?

Hear him going I am the representative for Nigeria, bla bla bla, as if this attitude of his has not robbed him of enough patronage from Nigeria.

I am sure if they found out, his bosses back at where ever they are will not be too happy with his foolishness and intimidation when saner approaches could have ensured better consequences.

He's toeing a dangerous line. It's typical of execs to attempt a highhanded approach then, upon failing, seek meeker methods thereafter. It's a big guy-looking-down-on-the-little-guy scenario. Except in this instance, the big guy might end up contending with a whole subcontinent.

GeorgeD1:
brother,
the bolded is something almost every solar enthusiast here can relate to.
the reason being that solar power as an aspect of renewable energy is an ever evolving industry.
there is no single template or blueprint to guide newbies as they try to grasp the different challenges
thrown at them during their start up years.
we all made mistakes along the way and we ended up buying most solar items we own today twice.
myself started with a locally made modified sine wave inverter which nearly set fire to my house,
before buying a chinese made inverter, which was also modified sine wave, and then another inverter
before finally deciding to get a high end inverter.
every enthusiast has their own story and we learn along the way.
most importantly however, you must be ready to read extensively whatever info you can find,
whether on the internet or other places. and, of course ask, ask and ask if not sure. this will will help
you avoid making mistakes some of which may be both costly and life-threatening.

... and I'm still buying some things ... twice!

Valto:
apc 650 ups is modified sine wave. i used 12V 1200kva bluegate and i think its okay. but currently i av been using APC 1500VA 24V ups and i can tell u that it is a PURE SINE WAVE. it works very well with all my appliances(blenders, normal ac fan and even fridge)

If it's the same as the APC 1500VA I have in storage, that device is awesome! To boot, it has AVR functions. If only it had excellent surge handling capabilities. Alas, it's but a online UPS.

Namzy:
Doesn't have equalization and the Voc increases based on different parameters. I have never seen a charge controller having varying levels of Voc. Shine ya eye abeg

At times, operating VoC and device tolerable VoC differs, as seen in Midnite Classic CC.

Saipro:
I have a Midnite Classic 250KS for sale (part of an order surplus including several MNSPD-300 and a disconnect box)

- max output current is 56A
- max input VoC is 250V DC
- max battery bank voltage is 120V nominal (yes, it can handle ten 12V batteries in series, for those 96V and 120V inverters used in ATMs, offices and some domestic installations)

Price is fixed at N360,000

O8O-239O-23O5 (WhatsApp and calls)

Still on the shelf

I have a Midnite Classic 250KS for sale (part of an order surplus including several MNSPD-300 and a disconnect box)

- max output current is 56A
- max input VoC is 250V DC
- max battery bank voltage is 120V nominal (yes, it can handle ten 12V batteries in series, for those 96V and 120V inverters used in ATMs, offices and some domestic installations)

Price is fixed at N360,000

O8O-239O-23O5 (WhatsApp and calls)

Dam5reey:
Here we go again, You are talking as if you even know the Brand of fan he is using, did you measure the Charging current and Charging voltage, the lead acid battery charger uses PWM charging profile so it starts at battery voltage and not 13.9V.
He has a new battery capacity is higher than the initial one @4.8AH. The fan charger also will have low current maximum 1A or less.

As far as his comments goes, he said the fan always stop working before he charge them again, That should tell you the fan has Some protection.

I think we should let this rest. I hope hotdealz has gotten the message - that it's cool he found a use for discarded laptop batteries and his setup might work, for now, but is a potentially very real hazard. It goes beyond having an Erisco Bonpet at the ready.