₦airaland Forum

GeorgeD1:
....

truth is that each battery chemistry have their place. depending on its application, none is superior to the other.
crucially, on a price to amp/hr basis and ease of deployment vs maintenance, lead acid wins hands down. it is the
reason why you won't find telecoms base stations or banks installing lithium (yet) as their primary battery banks.
they rather go for trusted and tested technology which don't need tinkering with before it can perform.
that said, nobody is ignoring lithium. far from it. personally i'm all for new technology, never against innovation.
i look forward to a time when lithium becomes mainstream just like lead acid. from li-ion to lifepo4 and now lito.
it can only get better. but anyone thinking lead acid will go away anytime soon better brace up and get ready
to be disappointed!

As I said previously, the war isn't against lithium. Lithium proponents keep thinking old school lead dudes are having inertia or fear-of-the-unknkown/FUD issues. That's an unkind thing to say. We're all interested in the latest gizmos which work as well as the ease of life which advancements in technology bring. If it works for me, it works. If it doesn't, it doesn't. Incidentally, some of the loudest voices for lead have either previously used lithium or secretly have smaller banks of lithium deliberately undeclared. Some don't want to be dragged into a mudfest thus opted to remain silent. I know some of them.

My house is powered by dual banks of 48V FLA 205Ah lead and 48V 200Ah VRLA lead. Security stuff have a separate 24V 200Ah lead backed by a 24V 80Ah LiFePO4. I assure you I am not wasteful. All my lights (save one bulb deliberately kept as memento) are LED. My security lights have been DC lLED floodlights for over 10 years. I haven't replaced them; intensely bright and they come highly recommended to whomever wishes to port to DC lighting (Quans brand). TVs are LED, ACs & washing machine are inverter type, refrigerators and freezers are A+ energy star devices (replaced energy guzzlers gradually over the years). This is my comfort zone. I don't run ACs at night. Unless there's a problem or I have guests, DoD rarely exceeds 20%. I have power 24/7 and switch to grid at will (rarely though) via either via passthru on System A (hard disabled and requires manual activation) or industrial contactors on System B (hard disabled by default too). I essentially live off-grid. You don't change a winning team. You can improve them/on them however.

Now, over the past 10 years, I have replaced all the lead acid banks just once (VRLA and FLA). The LiFePO4 bank has persisted across these upgrades (gave them out for a while and they were returned thoroughly abused but kicking strong). They even survived overcharging a few cycles (meaning I know just how robust they can be; I've had Li-Ion burn brilliantly on my bench despite safety precautions - BMSes also fail).

And that's what GeorgeD1 is saying. Get what works for you. I had the LiFePO4 some time before it became a hype yet continued using lead acid for reason of it satisfying the purposes I had in mind. Should lead acid fail me, I'll change in an instant. I have all the space I need and about 5kWp of solar panels sitting in my store. Coulombic efficiency is irrelevant to me (though that's wrong). See, that's what matters right there - application.

I don't see everyone driving a Ferrari around because it'll take you around faster or a tractor because it's die hard or a truck because of its stability on the road. Heck, despite all the advantages of having an electric car, I know how many I see on the roads daily. Even the hybrids which require no real special support infrastructure aren't nearly as common as gasoline engine cars. I don't think it's affordability. And let no one tell me this is a comparison of apples and oranges.

All my RE gear (save for the Midnite powering security stuff) are Victrons and lithium ready. I even stupidly sold off all my older Victrons recently and replaced them with the latest offerings. I am waiting for the right time to port. I will switch battery chemistries someday, when either lead no longer satisfies my requirements of it or when refusing to use a better option (lithium or whatever works at the time) becomes plain dumb.

Until then, each to his own tents. There is no war; there hasn't been and there will not be.

I see the battery chemistry wars are on again.

Each man to his own tent please. Yes, we're trying to get newbies informed and provide guidance where possible. Inevitably, we're colouring our perspectives with our experiences. The truth in the matter is, applications are client specific, even amongst the varied lithium types. I have LFP, lead-carbon FLA and VRLA. In times past, I've used Li-Ion (I didn't like the experience) but it's about knowledge. There were times constraints forced a particular type. Even now, I have multiple arrays feeding multiple banks for multiple levels of redundancy - two of them fully automated for some years now with almost no tinkering (security lights CCTV) asides upgrades.

Check your pocket. Check your unique needs. Investigate what might work for you. Do appropriate research. Give it your all. Have no regrets. Upgrade/swap as needed and as affordable.

There's always a bigger dog in the adjoining yard. A properly planned journey is oftentimes fun. Experience the world of RE within your limits. Or be full of lamentations.

Edit: I love my LFPs; I really do. They've survived the worst. I left them idling without charge for almost 2 years yet met them fully functional. Li-Ion tends to somehow go bad if you abandon them after a full charge. You can't try that stuff with lead acid for 3 months, full charge or not. 6 months and they're literally bricks.

I've boiled an FLA bank daily for almost 2 weeks, which revived the dying cells (desulphators were coupled in). Overcharging Lithium once or deep discharging them once is sufficient to ruin your bank permanently. Some cells simply won't recover. Same goes for VRLA.

Once again, as evidenced by Dapsyra, GeorgeD1 and NiyiOmoIyunade and I, what works ... works, so long as it's tailored to your needs.

NiyiOmoIyunade:
When your base load is 3kw to 4kw overnight. 48v 1200Ah doesn't really go very far....

For your price vs performance tradeoff argument, I used to be a staunch advocate of value products e.g I used MustPower inverters for nearly 4 years. At some point my paradigm changed. When you reach that place you will know as well

Seconded

I plan to sell off my trusty 3kW 48V PowerStar/MustPower. It's been gathering dust over the past 2 or so years. It performed outstandingly well while in service but somehow doesn't even come close to the MultiPlus which retired it. The Quattro I currently use is essentially a MultiPlus with additional inputs with corresponding attendant features

kiekie1:
Meet me for zZa oda room as usual Sir ...

Correct man

kiekie1:
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Bosch 12v 200a deep cycle battery .... 120k
Datasheet available under request ..


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Impressive
Free samples?

Saipro:
Anyone with a small 120VAC 60Hz inverter for sale?

Still on the lookout

Anyone with a small 120VAC 60Hz inverter for sale?

- open-box Victron Quattro 48/5000/70 (5kVA 48VDC) - ₦780,000
- Victron VE.Direct 375VA 48VDC inverter (no charger) - ₦60,000
- Victron BMV 702 (with shunt and cables) - ₦100,000
- Fangpusun display (for inverters and chargers) - ₦20,000
- Midnite SPD 300V AC/DC surge protector - ₦60,000
- Midnite MNPV8HV-DISCO 4X disconnect/combiner box - ₦360,000
- 300W Yingli panels - ₦35,000 (used)

- MC4 connectors
- MC4 splitters/combiners
- Midnite 250 Classic KS

WhatsApp/Call O8O396l2l47

A recent small upgrade to my supplementary security system (powered by RE too)
- thanks ZeeStone99 for the sweet deal on Canadian Solar PV panels
- thanks JustCallMenuel for the great deal on AGM batteries

earthrealm:
Also the infinitum desulphator, who knows where i can get it and how much?

I bought the first two from eBay or directly from the company about a decade or more back. I'm not sure at the moment. Subsequent purchases were directly from the company. Check the Infinitum online store link.

Oshomo12:
For your 2.5kva with two 200ah
1. Mppt CC, 50A, 100V or 150v
2. 1,000w solar(recommended)
3. wires, 6mm(panel to cc) 13/16mm cc to batteries
4. Never chop off panel MC4 connectors
5. Circuit breakers for panels, fuse, both dc and ac SPD's. Etc etc

Just to add, buy a better battery and inverter

PWM can work for 1,000W PV for a 24VDC system. In fact, properly matched, it can give excellent results for 1,500PV in 24VDC system. But that's about the limit. Cable inefficiencies and cost would begin crippling the system thereafter.

GeorgeD1:
as promised earlier, i have been on my 260ah 12pcs zenith batteries since 2012. it's been a remarkable
journey no doubt, especially given all the lament on here about lead acid batteries and their poor durability.
7 years and counting and my batteries seemed to just go on and on. at a point i almost became confused
as to why i was having such a nice time with lead acid while the general opinion was anything but pleasant.
maybe i was just plain lucky or maybe i was doing something right afterall...
the jury is still out on this...

.... still bothered about how your supplier unceremoniously stopped stocking them before some of us could partake of the goodness named Zenith batteries.

So, my three and a half year old US batteries sprouted weak and dead cells within a weak of heavy usage with poor insolation. Enter panic mode. I cut down utilization to barest minimum for about a week; when that wasn't cutting it, I began daily equalization cycles after daily absorb termination. A week of daily equalizing seemed aggravate the situation with the weak cells seemingly dying too. I had begun doing the rounds of local lithium merchants when lady luck smiled upon with good fortune.

A routine check of a car in the yard before a trip revealed an item previously forgotten - an Infinitum desulphator! Every vehicle in the family has one installed and average battery lifespan has since been 3 - 4 years (even with abuse). I was bound to have a few in the store so I ransacked the darker corners and found one each of the 24V and 12V types. Immediately rearranged the batteries that night such that the sole battery without issues would be the one excluded from the desulphators (I run a primary bank of 48V nominal)

48 hours later and the weak cells began showing signs of life. Enter the dragon. Daily equalizations with end-of-week dilution of the weak and dead cells. After a week, the weak cells had sprung to life while one of the dead cells showed the barest signs of life. The other dead cells wouldn't even bubble nor change colour (healthy cells had electrolyte turned brown from vigorous boiling).

End of second week and all cells showed signs of life, however little. Middle of third week and all had resumed regular vicious boiling with equalization. Alternate day/once in three days equalization halted.

We are now entering the fourth week of desulphator use (remember I ran two weeks of conditioning without them and the cells went almost beyond salvage). From registering 47V within an hour of sundown and either dying before dawn or waking to 39V, I now have at worst 49V at bedtime (82 - 88%) and 48V at daybreak (73 - 82%). Batteries have inevitably lost some capacity over the years. My nighttime/overnight load is still 200W or less (typically about 150W nighttime, 100W overnight - inverter consumption added).

I should mention the bank had HA02 balancers installed from inception. I said it a few years ago and would like to reiterate now : snake oil or not, reliable desulphators work!

Saipro:
I have another set of Victron inverters for sale. Currently available are:
Brand new
- open-box Victron Quattro 48/5000/70 (5kVA 48VDC) - ₦680,000 (latest processor 2658***)
- Midnite SPD 300V surge protector - ₦50,000
WhatsApp/Call O8O 3961 2147

Available

NiyiOmoIyunade:
So in my installs, the usual average yield is at least 4 times the PV nameplate on a good day with ideal weather and sufficient energy demand.

I consider a regular daily yield 3 times the mounted PV nameplate to be unimpressive or average at best.

I kept quiet on this as I had so far not been able to get my large PV array to yield above 3 times the nameplate even though I believe it was pretty well optimised - attributed this to insufficient energy demand from AC loads and refilling depleted battery bank.

Well in the last few days I have had a very full and busy house and this evening saw good yield results from my 19.5kw PV array.

I look forward to a day when the sun and my consumption align and I can gross 100kwh daily yield

On wonderful days, my Canadian solar panels can do 5× nameplate. Routinely do 3.5 - 4× when allowed. Due to my low consumption, I rarely do more than 2× (massively oversized array which has paid of these past few months of horribly low insolation).

Having said that, Yingli often have no problem with 4 - 5× nameplate on regular days. And mine are even 250W poly, not mono. The 300W routinely does 4× (not sure why there's disparity in performance) as I set VoC and other parameters to be as similar as possible.

Israelicc:
As much as I like your analysis Sir, I beg to differ on the installation part. In practice, this 810w panel will reduce the time it takes to do an install. It will also reduce the number of mid and end clamps needed for an install. You are right with the handling part for dangerous terrains but if best and safe practice using harnesses or a MEWP is used, then there is no need to worry.

Let's also not forget that it's advancements like this that have generally brought down the cost of solar panels world wide. Imagine for once that we still had only the 100w and 150w panels, you would have needed a truck load of panels to do installs in excess of 5kwp.

I haven't seen the name plate yet but I also presume that the Voc and Imp of the 810w would be significantly higher than the 380w panels, which give us new design possibilities too. I'm just saying..

Number of connections (translate as failure points) would definitely reduce. VoC would double. Possibly ImP too (depending on cell arrangement).

chris81964:
If that is what it takes then I will replace mine.

Disable power saving mode, if you haven't

kadorzy:
Stick with 3s4p setup.
The FP 150|70A has a max VOC of 145V. Doing 4x250 in series will exceed this limit.

Depends on rated VoC of each panel, distance and cabling to the CC. And tolerance of the CC

Oshomo12:
Yingli panels should be good, though i haven't tried my hands on any yet(still looking at it with one eye).

Yingli aren't just good, they're great!
I have both Canadian solar and Yingli installed at home. What's more, the earlier poly JoySolar panels I have are still firing at nearly nameplate 6 years down the line. The mono ones are a disappointment.

chris81964:
My brother they are blowing my mind. I retired my Victron and Schneider products. This inverter and battery are IP65 rated. The inverter has a 120 amp AC charge and a 10 kw surge.

Your war with their copyright and copyleft issues has come to a conclusion. I'm investigating two other wonderful Chinese brands though they're still kinda like clones of some basic design elsewhere but nothing as blatant as Fangpusun

chris81964:
Yes the AC sucks. Only cools the room on cold nights. During the day it struggles to keep the room at 27. My window non inverter AC does a better job
The batteries are 5 kwh. I have 4.3 kwh in PV. Thank you for watching and commenting

That's wrong. Have someone check the unit. Ambient temperature matters (and it shouldn't be installed on the sunny side wall when avoidable) but not cooling the room beyond 27°C? Abysmal

davodyguy:
My assessment of using two LNB on 4 metre motorised dish

1. Inverto Black single way 63% on a particular TP on Hotbird

2. Stargold dual way improved it to 66%

3. While Inverto Black Single way is functional on 1.3m pan dish, Stargold dual way failed to work on 1.3m pan dish.

Which TP and your location please?

Saipro:
I have another set of Victron inverters for sale. Currently available are:
Brand new
- open-box Victron Quattro 48/5000/70 (5kVA 48VDC) - ₦680,000 (latest processor 2658***) 4 units available
- Midnite SPD 300V surge protector - ₦60,000 new arrivals

WhatsApp/Call O8O 3961 2147

Still available

NiyiOmoIyunade:
This whole quality/premium vs price discussion. What I have found is that in a free market with informed participants, good quality and higher price generally go together.

The market soon learns to avoid a low quality product with high prices and continue to pay a premium for a good quality or top grade product. You may succeed foisting a falsely rated or falsely branded el-cheapo product on people for a while but ultimately the market feedback mechanism will weed out such a product when it fails to stand the test of time.

I classify products firmly in the premium, value and mass market (disposable) segment. In today's market, I do not know a battery with same real life performance as Quanta ( I rate the battery a decent value offering and not premium) that sells for 60% of the Quanta price except self imports or deals come up.

Same way Victrons and MustPowers cannot be compared in the things they do - a premium product will always attract higher prices vs the value or low budget offering all things being equal.

That said, pricing alone is not the criteria to know a premium product by - feedback from previous buyers/users, verified datasheets and field performance data as well as being knowledgable about that specific niche the product plays in so that you can match the correct product to the correct application all go a long way.

Namely, you pay for R & D while the cheaper ones are often imitations. Case study: Victron vs Fangpusun

essegis:
Thats not mine bro. Picture was snapshot from a combiner box video. Why not just get another charger?

Got 2 replacements asides the initial 2. Inverter even set to 60Hz. Same fate. Currently use a Imax to charge them though kinda cumbersome. The tools are great but the battery pack are meh

essegis:
If I'm to answer this. SPD is not connected the way you are thinking it should. I have queried why that is so severally but have been made to see reason its in its operation. You will require dedicated bussbars for this your SPD.

While the "In" is connected to the positive bussbar with the other panels positives the "Out" is connected to the negative buss. Definitely you choose one or loop both PE for your ground.

Still confused? Look at the attached pix for the normal wiring of a combiner box. Hope this helps.

A Ryobi tool in the picture. Pretty amusing. My batteries keep dying on me and the chargers are long dead. How do you charge yours?

I have another set of Victron inverters for sale. Currently available are:

Brand new
- open-box Victron Quattro 48/5000/70 (5kVA 48VDC) - ₦780,000 (latest processor 2658***) 6 units available
- Midnite SPD 300V surge protector - ₦50,000 a few units still available

WhatsApp/Call O8O 3961 2147

ceaser:
The 203L Haier never even reach one year and I'm already itching for this. that was how I retired a new not too efficient 42 inch LED for an A++ efficient 65 inch after 6 months. Because I couldn't get to sell the former quickly, I was forced to give it out against my wish.

I'm worried this extreme urge of acquisition is not bordering on some abnormality.

The itch is real. If it's any solace, you are not alone.

Nafizzey:
thanks pls what's the best Frequency for 26°E?

Assuming a 90cm dish, try the MBC frequency 12284 V 27500.
If that proves difficult, first track MultiTV with 12525 V 30000 then adjust the dish a bit higher and a bit to the right, if standing behind the dish (or a bit to the left if in front of the dish).
On a 60cm dish, playing around with the LNB should give you MBC if you input the MBC frequency after locking MultiTV.

Nilesat is no longer a challenge as the MBC channels appear on many easy to track FTA packages. The new challenge is OSN (if you have a suitable decoder and/or subscription). Minimum dish size 3m. Happy hunting!

Nafizzey:
what's the Lnbf skew for Media 7 pls?

On a 90cm/100cm dish, track 26e and make the 28.2e LNB sit directly on it, a bit to the left. Otherwise, sacrifice a bit of signal for both but nail both with the same LNB (better achieved on a 60cm dish).
Skew is between 7 O'clock and 8 O'clock (or between 2 O'clock and 3 O'clock) depending on your location.

Justin288:
I rather do DIY than buy some of these fancy lithium packages. I first learnt about lithium on this group 10months ago and started researching and getting all the devices I needed gradually. Last week able to setup my 15s120p. 230Ah tested.
With plans for 5 rows of 15s expansion.
At least I know what am dealing with.
Covid 19 Lockdown helped sha.

Batrium
That's some pretty nifty (and expensive) equipment you've got going there

earthrealm:
.....

ihave observed 1804w from a 1680w (6 x 280w yingli panels) array, about 2wks ago, dropped to 1795w and held steady for over 3minutes.
this was hooked to a 25k 60amps powmr cc

Yingli never ceases to impress