₦airaland Forum

budaatum:
I know nothing about Professor Willem Ouwenee. So I read up on wiki. Below are some of the views he has had:

Creation and Evolution
For a long time he was a young-earth creationist who believed that the earth was created no more than six to ten thousand years ago.

Biologists are very unlikely to have regard for anyone, not to talk of a Ph.D holder in the subject, who holds this view. There is afterall an insurmountable amount of evidence to oppose it. He does not hold this view anymore, and is said to tend more towards a model of 'guided evolutionism' or theistic evolution, something he previously strongly opposed as "a slippery slope towards an ultimately unadulterated evolution faith.

He has further gone on to say, it is claimed, that,
The widely believed scientific method, the requirement of empirical and logical verifiability, etc., are nothing more than states of mind.

Another view scientists would hold in utter contempt and one any scientist would never claim.

If those truly are Professor Willem Ouweneels views, it is hardly surprising that he is mocked by his peers!

Professor McGrath said, "New Atheism ridicules the 'irrationality of faith,'" said McGrath, who has debated New Atheist icons such as Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens. "But it's in decline, because it's stale, dull and incredible. It provides unsatisfactory answers to ultimate questions. People want to know more."
I cannot fail to observe that this Oxford professor has arrive at the same conclusion as Prof. Ouwennel when he ridiculed the atheist claim that reality is only "what reason and science can demonstrate," pointing out the limits of science and the ambiguous nature of scientific truth.

Professor McGrath said faith offers the best world view to "make sense of what we experience. "Faith can accept the contributions of science but then fill in the missing pieces of meaning and understanding.

The academic, Prof. McGrath who has degrees in molecular biology, theology and intellectual history, spoke on "why faith makes sense: exploring the rationality of Christianity."

The academic, Professor Willem Ouweneels holds doctorates in biology (Utrecht), philosophy (Amsterdam) and theology (Bloemfontein, RSA). Professor Ouweneel is a theology and philosophy professor at several colleges and theological faculties.

JackBizzle:
A normal human being wouldnt have posted this. You are not okay

Another question for you Jackbizzle, your High-Level helper Budaatum should guide your thinking on this.

What is another Professor saying about Low-Level Atheists below;

Professor Alister McGrath made his predictions on Athesism during the annual Parchman Lectures at Baylor University's Truett Theological Seminary, the Baptist Standard reports.

The academic, who has degrees in molecular biology, theology and intellectual history, spoke on "why faith makes sense: exploring the rationality of Christianity."

McGrath said he was an atheist as a young man, but faith makes greater sense of reality and transcends reason, which is insufficient for understanding the world.
"New Atheism ridicules the 'irrationality of faith,'" said McGrath, who has debated New Atheist icons such as Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens. "But it's in decline, because it's stale, dull and incredible. It provides unsatisfactory answers to ultimate questions. People want to know more."

I think that it is interesting that such a great mind can come to the conclusion that Atheism, "is in decline, because it's stale, dull and incredible. It provides unsatisfactory answers to ultimate questions. People want to know more."

I cannot fail to observe that this Oxford professor has arrive at the same conclusion as Prof. Ouwennel when he ridiculed the atheist claim that reality is only "what reason and science can demonstrate," pointing out the limits of science and the ambiguous nature of scientific truth.
By contrast McGrath said faith offers the best world view to "make sense of what we experience. "Faith can accept the contributions of science but then fill in the missing pieces of meaning and understanding.

budaatum:
I am sure it is, and offered my bads. You did however make a claim that we were disputing, and is the purpose of this thread. I could not let it pass.

No offence, I understand.

budaatum:
I know nothing about Professor Willem Ouwenee. So I read up on wiki. Below are some of the views he has had:

Creation and Evolution
For a long time he was a young-earth creationist who believed that the earth was created no more than six to ten thousand years ago.

Biologits are very unlikely to have regard for anyone, not to talk of a Ph.D holder in the subject, who holds this view. There is afterall an insurmountable amount of evidence to oppose it. He does not hold this view anymore, and is said to tend more towards a model of 'guided evolutionism' or theistic evolution, something he previously strongly opposed as "a slippery slope towards an ultimately unadulterated evolution faith.

He has further gone on to say, it is claimed, that,
The widely believed scientific method, the requirement of empirical and logical verifiability, etc., are nothing more than states of mind.

Another view scientists would hold in utter contempt and one any scientist would never claim.

If those truly are Professor Willem Ouwenee's views, it is hardly surprising that he is mocked by his peers! Even conservative evangelical Christians oppose his views! It is said that:

It is not easy to get a clear picture of his opinion of theological subjects. In addition, some critics accuse him of vacillating in his writings and lectures or of contradicting what he has written in previous publications.

He can of course put his money where his mouth is and publish his own books, but no sensible parent would pay for their child to study his works, in my opinion, nor would an intelligent person hold his views at any respectable level of esteem. A very confused and convoluted individual is more what Professor Willem Ouwenee sounds like.

As to those "mentally diseased Atheists in powerful positions", the facts hardly support your position. It is in fact truer that there are many more people of faith in powerful positions, so many in fact, that some places have laws excluding atheists. It is also enormously harder to silence people or views today than it was in the early first century. One just has to search for the views of terrorists, to pick one, to see how almost impossible it is. Heretics were burned at the stake in past times. Best we have today is to label them or hunt them down and blow them out of existence. Atheists would hardly go to that extent, or at least I have no record that they have.

Are you attempting to pass off anecdotes as evidence a la, planes crash ergo all planes crash, by any chance? Are you also passing off opinion as fact? Such reasoning is hardly sufficiently rigorous nor acceptable to be taken as evidence by anyone who has an incline of what science is. There sure is nothing scientific in it as that would at least require some level of verifiability.

Please let me know in which way you watch science. It is what piqued my interest at the first read of the title of this thread as claimed by you.

Now Wiki is your authority for your attack on a truly great man. The honorable Prof. Ouweneel at least spend millions to investigate. You on the other hand present these claims as fact and therefore feed the reader with your uninformed personal opinions hoping to score points. That is hardly scientific !

Prof.Ouweneel is not only mocked by his biased peers, but also by you who have no knowledge of what this man is about other than your 3 minute wiki investigation.

budaatum:
My bad for butting in. But you have not even showed us he exists. Is that not sufficient gripe with you?

It is bad that you butt in on behalf of Jackbizzle, he is perfectly capable.

JackBizzle:
A normal human being wouldnt have posted this. You are not okay

Yet you have nothing to offer to help solve this problem. only a few snide remarks so that others can quickly recognize you as a Low-level Atheist.
I know you are still hurting because I pledged a lousy N800 monthly to help you pay your N5,0000 monthly Atheist tithes/registrations so you can finally become a recognized member and not a miserable troll.

JackBizzle:
A normal human being wouldnt have posted this. You are not okay

You are a brilliant Atheist Jackbizzle, to have come to this conclusion.
So what is your grip with Prof. Zimmerman. We are waiting.

4kings:
Anyway, do you have a profound fact for Jesus existence that makes you so sure?

Most people will never move to find answers themselves. They prefer to burden others with their slothfulness disguised
as seekers wanting free "profound facts". Great spiritual truths has never fallen into any ones lap. That is why a renowned Professor
got off his backside and spent millions of Niara to investigate if the Gospels be true.

Professor Ouweneel holds doctorates in biology (Utrecht), philosophy (Amsterdam) and theology (Bloemfontein, RSA).
Professor Ouweneel is a theology and philosophy professor at several colleges and theological faculties. He is the author of over 100 books. He lives in the Netherlands, where he was born.

Here is an extract from Professor Ouweneel’s experience at the Holy Scoan Church Nigeria ;

He says, "My daughter went there several times and was healed, and she gave me the message that T.B. Joshua was interested in seeing me, although she had not told him anything about me. So I went there twice, once for five days, and once for ten days , and I hope to go there again.
Professor Ouweneel says,”I was very much impressed by what I saw, heard and experienced there. Not only in seeing the miracles that happened and the sermons that were given, but particularly the spiritual experience in my own soul when I was there. That is something that everyone who doesn't go there in person will miss."

“I am satisfied as to the integrity of T.B. Joshua's ministry says Professor Ouweneel. I have no doubt about that. I asked him some difficult questions just to find out for myself about his personal honesty, and I have been satisfied as to that. Also I believe him to be thoroughly sound on all the basic doctrines of Christianity."

After Prof. Ouweneel wrote and published his book on the truth about SCOAN church Nigeria he was viciously attacked and mocked by his peers. He certainly never saw that coming.

budaatum:
I have no evidence that Zimmerman's study on atheism has been covered up since I don't have evidence it existed in the first place. It is odd then, that you ask me to provide evidence for the alleged cover up. It is like asking an atheist to provide evidence for a god s/he claims doesn't exist. Can you see how silly that sounds?

The cover up of such a study would involve complete eradication of Prof Hans Zimmerman ever existing at Hamburg University, silencing him so he does not shout 'foul', the total wipeout of the study you claim you saw on the web and from all the sites it would have been shared on, the silencing of all his students - he was a professor in a university afterall; the erradication of all comments made on said study, the silencing of all those who made those comments, and the elimination of all op eds on said study. Somehow, I doubt anyone would bother to go so far, and if they did, there would be a trail.

However, if you have evidence for any of this, I would consider it.

I agree, it certainly sounds silly considering how so-called primitive Jewish leaders effectively plotted to eradicate the reality of Jesus' existence. They silenced and killed the bearers of evidence. Why cant so-called modern man not be more effective at silencing
truth that shames those mentally diseased Atheists in powerful positions ?

It is well know that Scientists that speak the TRUTH are ostracized and blocked from getting jobs at universities.
kindly consider two brief brief examples;

Scientists that exposed the grave dangers of GMO (Genetically modified foods) have lost their jobs and suffer under cruel propaganda campaigns to make them look stupid.

Professor Willem Ouweneel holds doctorates in biology (Utrecht), philosophy (Amsterdam) and theology (Bloemfontein, RSA).
Professor Ouweneel is a theology and philosophy professor at several colleges and theological faculties. He is the author of over 100 books. He lives in the Netherlands, where he was born. He and his team came to SCOAN Church Nigeria several times to investigate the miracles for themselves. To shorten a long story, Before he came he never believed in miracle healing or demonic deliverance.
He wrote and published a book revealing his findings that everything happening in the SCOAN church was true.

He was mocked by his peers, His book was taken out of print. I am fortunate to have found an old tattered copy in a second-hand book shop. My opinion is that Professor Willem Ouweneel never knew what evil will rain down on him after he revealed the truth.
I have tried to email him several times. He seems to have gone into hiding or was he assassinated ?


Prof Hans Zimmerman is a reality, why is there suddenly no trace of him ?

budaatum:
I protest strongly sir that none of your posted links, apart from the one I quoted from extensively, mention any study by anyone named Zimmerman at any university whatsoever!

The first link is the author's view. No investigation is mentioned. The second is a critique of Dawkins’ book, The God Delusion, of which the author states his opinion. While the third is at best an opinion (though not a considered one at all). None of them claim to be from a study nor do they present any evidence for their claims.

You will kindly forgive my pedantism. The science in your watch directs me to assume, correctly, hopefully,
that you may be scientific in your approach to evidence. A link to the study would suffice.

As to the Nazi HZ, it seemed to me the others I came across couldn't have cut the mustard. If I err do please correct me.

Lol, I will watch my science.
Hey, maybe you can explain why the the Zimmerman study on ATHEISM is being covered up ?
I can't find the published findings that was freely available on Google last year.

I think your choice of Nazi HZ was instructive, though I missed the subtle inference at first. Lol

budaatum:
I am afraid you give me way too much credit. All my research comes up dud so my intelligence may not live up to the high standard you think it does. I just can't seem to find anything about the research or the claims it is said to make. I did find this though:

Hatred of Atheists plummets to new depths of stupidity
The study was supposedly conducted by a Dr. Hans Zimmerman of the University of Hamburg, but a Google search revealed no-one by that name working at this institution.

I too checked and found no record of a Dr Hans Zimmerman at Hamburg University.

The author further claims A multi-language search for the good doctor did turn up a Hans Zimmerman. He was the Gauleiter of Franconia, Germany, 1940-41. A Nazi Party leader! Right up there with Joe Goebbels.

It is said that patience is a virtue. I'll acquire some and gladly wait till the end of next week for you to post those refs please.

Here are the links you requested. All the best !!

http://atheismexposed.tripod.com/atheists_mentally_ill.htm

http://www.bethinking.org/atheism/dawkins-delusions-faith-and-evidence

http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/Atheism-is-a-mental-illness-20120413

http://thedamienzone.com/2012/08/17/atheism-as-a-mental-disorder-or-illness-new-studies-say-yes/

I see you have deliberately chosen to throw off the investigation by only using Hans Zimmerman a Nazi Party leader Germany, 1940-41
to prove your point. You failed to add at least four other Hans Zimmerman's and there profiles.

budaatum:
The "horrific scientific findings" was not released anywhere that I have come across. You are still required to post your references please.

Here are the links you requested budaatum. All the best !!

http://atheismexposed.tripod.com/atheists_mentally_ill.htm

http://www.bethinking.org/atheism/dawkins-delusions-faith-and-evidence

http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/Atheism-is-a-mental-illness-20120413

http://thedamienzone.com/2012/08/17/atheism-as-a-mental-disorder-or-illness-new-studies-say-yes/

I will like to conclude by posting quotes of these great intellectuals referring to hateful and desperate atheists.

1) Atheists express their rage against God although in their view He does not exist. --C. S. Lewis

2) Nobody talks so constantly about God as those who insist that there is no God. -- Heywood Broun

3) In some awful, strange, paradoxical way, atheists tend to take religion more seriously than the practitioners. --Jonathon Miller

4) It amazes me to find an intelligent person who fights against something which he does not at all believe exists. --Mohandas Gandhi

5) Atheism is a crutch for those who cannot bear the reality of God. -- Tom Stoppard

6) If atheism spread, it would become a religion as intolerable as the ancient ones. --Gustave le Bon

7) An atheist may be simply one whose faith and love are concentrated on the impersonal aspects of God. --Simone Weil

cool A disbelief in God does not result in a belief in nothing; disbelief in God usually results in a belief in anything.—unknown

segunojo866:
why are you asking me a question and you haven't answered my question

You suddenly asked me if I was a Muslim or Christian. Read my mention. Learn to read between the lines, then you are free to choose for me. segunojo866, you have mastered the art of jumping to conclusions. Enjoy.

hopefulLandlord:
ad hominem, makes you feel better

I may not be as educated as you but the little I know makes me sure the sentence "Don't harden your heart like Pharaoh" means Pharaoh was the one hardening his own heart, nothing in there implies another entity(ies) or person(s) was responsible for the hardening

but I guess my lack of "wisdom" is the cause of it all

Your are very wise indeed ! Between intelligence and wisdom, wisdom is way more powerful to the wise.

butterflyl1on:


I pledge 925 naira

That is very generous of you to help Jackbizzle pay his tithes of 27,000 Niara.
I am sorry I cant afford to give him more N800 this month. I promise to pledge N1,600 next month.

vaxx:
you are rude in your statement ,be polite for once....it will not take your liberty

The Low-Level Atheists horror ! IT HAS BEGUN. Look and learn Vaxx.

Dont throw your pearls to the swine.

butterflyl1on:
In sciencewatch Voice "low level atheist" Why did you not use the 27k to pay your atheist dues?

At least you can pay in instalments

Lol damn loud ! lets help Jackbizzle and do a collection so he can pay his tithes/registration.
I pledge 800Niara towards his basic monthly tithes of N27,000 to the failed prophet of modern Atheism, Richard Dawkins.

segunojo866:
are you a Christian or Muslim ?

Do you want to talk about your Atheist church and ways to build it into a universally respected institution able to to assist the oppressed suffering masses ?

Or Segunojo866, do you want help to find more effective ways to destroy everything sacred ?

segunojo866:
you are so right bro

Shame, The laughing guy used to regularly attend the Atheist Church.
It is so sad to see his own wife admit him into the hands of "Vicious Psychiatry." Which is worse than hell.

Samsimple:
This thread wont make frontpage in jesus name amen

Your wish has been granted.
IT MAY MAKE BACK-PAGE SOON.

segunojo866:
pointless

you are right. His loving wife only realized in the psychiatrist's waiting room that her marriage to this Low-level Atheist was pointless.

helpfulposts:
tanx for this contribution

these so-called low-level atheists on nairaland used to insult christians. Some will copy and paste other people's content claiming to know it all

Thanks Helpfulposts.Yes your observation of the cruel, insulting behavior is correct. Low-Level Atheists are very damaging on many levels, including business confidence. Business, social,Spiritual topics are quickly reduced to trash by this gang of Low-level atheist trolls.

Someone once asked, "why don't thousands of people who were healed, delivered from demons and miraculous blessings share their awesome experiences here on Nairaland."

Well, we all know the answer by now. Nairaland's Low-level Atheists will descend like a pack of starved vultures, to rip each inspiring post to shreds.

[b]The esteemed Nairalander, Vaxx [/b]has also expressed his concerns and believes that the owners of Nairaland will investigate this damaging trend.

vaxx:
I will be glad if you can create a topic to address this observation of yours....

1 build the objective of discussion

2 point out what atheism is damaging on nairalandforum.(this forum has internationalised Nigeria) may be it can attract seun the founder...am sure he will do something about it...business is very important...

3...applaud the genuine one you notice on nairaland and give them a word of encouragement....

From this point we can all contribute to human development by removing shaft from the grain....we are all one at the end. ..

Cheers

Wow ! Vaxx you certainly certainly have a spirit called to inspire, even under extremely difficult circumstances.

I am encouraged by your well rounded insight and deeper understanding of problem solving. Your well thought out process can be used to effectively bring about positive change.

Yes I agree, Nairaland should not be left to deteriorate under the dictates of selfish, insulting Low-level Atheists. Your post reveal your acute awareness of the the bigger picture of Nairaland. It has internationalised Nigeria. It has a good business model. It provides well designed public forum etc.

As requested, I will work on this topic and use your generous and effective guidelines though I believe you are the best person to do this.

AlmiqhteeAllah:
Only Jesus Christ himself can save me from this lunatic.

I respectfully to Al, May Allah and The holy prophet Mohamed ignore your pleas for help.
Now please fuxk off my mentions. I dont know you ashole !

KingEbukasBlog:
Its easy to say that you have little understanding of what was discussed in the videos or you didn't watch the videos. But that's okay, you are an atheist

Anyway , there are different theories and perspectives of what time is and how God relates with time i.e how you choose to see God's relationship with time depends on your perspective of time . And personhood and transcendence are mutually exclusive to some and to another there is a connection . There is no consensus on how God relates with time .

Absolutely brilliant King. This type of Atheist is extremely biased and will never watch your videos. Instead they hallucinate about your helpful videos and suddenly have strong opinions of things they never investigated.

KingEbukasBlog I think I see "The theory of relativity" unfolding in your explanation of "Time."

Please continue. I am reading.

vaxx:
I saw it from your written.... You are intelligent. And you have more to say....but it seems they are failing to see that aspect in you .....your choices of words are brilliant...

Thanks for your kind words Vaxx. I certainly have much to say
on the topic of Low-level Atheists vs Genuine Atheists. The genuine ones focus on their search for enduring truths that empower humanity.
They will never stoop so low as to insult and terrorize innocent, decent persons that have a right to use forums for sharing and thereby helping each other.

It is terrible to witness the damage a Low-level Satanic Atheists do to forums that that was established to provide a positive benefit.

Humanistme:
He does it on purpose don't get it twisted. he is a certified troll. It is best to ignore him.

I agree. Ignore the hapless religious troll, hopefulLandlord.

vaxx:
can you pls attend to him, he is ready to listen ...you may win a soul..I saw calmness in his written...

You make good points Vaxx as usual but it really does not apply to most Low-level Atheists here.

The guiding principle for me is, "Dont throw your pearls to the swine. They will rend you." I will never attempt to "win/save the soul" of a swine. They must stay were they are ! We all have free choice, these Low-level Atheists have chosen the dark Side.

hopefulLandlord, ToZaraWithaZ, hahn and others cruel, hate driven trolls that cruise religious topics to get sexual relief and to impress their failed prophet of modern Atheism, Richard Dawkins.

ToZaraWithaZ:
Deliverance from what? Your own delusions? This is nothing but a psychological problem, a disease of the mind. You need to see a psychiatrist, go for psychoanalysis, or something, instead of looking for "deliverance" from something that's not there. Perhaps, all you need to solve your relationship problems may not even go beyond simple counselling. Who knows if the problem is in your deportment, character and personality?

So, your marine wife couldn't see the need to speak to you over all these years, but, for some mysterious reason, chose to speak to your girlfriend instead? Because........ she's an Ogbanje? Who says she's who she claims she is?

Your superstitious beliefs will eat you up if you're not careful.

You are unable to reality of others experience, yet you disrespectfully
interject with your pseudo science drivel.

Psychology and Psychiatry are cruel, corrupt money making partners.
Psychiatry: An Industry of Death is a documentary on the horrors of psychiatry, of punishing and persecuting of the innocent and promoting Fascism, racism and atheism.

It was the foundation for the Holocaust, apartheid, for Jim Crow and for Communism. It has lead to many deaths. It denies God, the giver of life and freedom. It stands against the values of freedom, life, liberty and dignity.

The evil inherent in psychiatry should be of great concern to all people of all faiths especially Muslims Christians and Jews.

ToZaraWithaZ:
I still don't seem to get what this frustrated lunatic is talking about. What is your point? Oya, calm down and state your problems with total clarity. I'm interested in solving them.

I'm waiting.

Stop deluding yourself ToZaraWithaZ, I dont share problems with demented religious trolls.
You guys create a bad vibe for Nairaland which happen to be an excellent business tools, but with the majority being decent Muslims and Christians, they will vote with their dollars.

Go fuxk with Atheists !

KingEbukasBlog:
Thank you my brother . Its the repugnant display of idiocy we see all the time

You doing well King, Respect !
KingEbukasBlog, could the facts below be the Satanic motivation of Low-level Atheists sick behaviour ?

Much of history teaches that violence, greed, and domination pay off handsomely in the worldly sense.

ToZaraWithaZ:
What are you on about? Are you pissed that I called you MAD? Then you should have proved me wrong instead of putting on this display of lunacy to prove my statement right. I personally think you're the one who lacks the intellectual muscle for debate.

Nigga told me to go and read some "Christian intellectuals" and posted some YouTube videos, and this is the debate you're talking about? What point did he make that I ought to have addressed?

Some lunatic is obsessed with me.

What is your problem ? I engage you respectfully and suddenly you panic. You portray typical Atheist behaviour.
Are you shiting yourself that I called you stupid ?