NairaLTQ:

Sorry!

All I am saying is that you have no way of knowing.

All you really are saying is there is no way you can know. That you can't use your own heart and soul and mind and being to ask and knock and seek, and you are not aware that some would go as far as first visiting the Jesusoptician to get jesusglasses so they can see better when they do their knocking, with a hammer.

Caution: Other opticians exist. And knocking tools too!

NairaLTQ:

Think about it: If there is any Creator at all, he would not be made up of matter. If the Creator is not made up of matter, how on earth can you claim you know?

"Think about it if", lol, is like asking me to create a creator in my head and then start believing that the creator I create in my head actually exists. If it were food, you'd be asking me to imagine I ate a 12 plate dinner, and you now ask why I claim I'm hungry.

Matter is not the only method of assessing the existence of a thing. Gravity is not matter, yet not many argue it's existence. Nor do many argue the occurrence of evolution, which some argue its effect, mostly noticeably on matter, is now being recognised in ideas.

A creator does not need to be made up of matter for the creator to exist. It must manifest in some way though, and all gods haven't so far, except in the minds of those who believe the crap they create in their own minds.

budaatum:

It is not difficult to know peacemakers, Max.
Peacemakers are recognised by their fruits, by those look through jesusglasses.

What you expected now is clearly stated in the topic of the thread, NOT Peacemakers issue.

So leave that for another day on another thread!

Maximus69:


No matter the type of person you are, if you're a peace lover God will mold you into a useful vessel, but the problem here is it is very very difficult to know those who are true peace lovers deep in their hearts.

It is not difficult to know peacemakers, Max.
Peacemakers are recognised by their fruits by those [who] look through jesusglasses.

budaatum:
There is nothing extraordinary about our means muttley.

If Jesus can say to Peter that flesh and blood has not revealed to Peter what he said, then there is something extraordinary in the means of how Peter got that revelation

budaatum, intelligence, is a gift from God, but when it is perverted by pride, it turns into intellectual pride and becomes a barrier between the person and God, because focus then shifts on to the perverted gift than the Giver of the original and/or unperverted gift

budaatum:
The definition of jesusglasses is "spit on mud".

jesusglasses is closely associated with or is suggestive of opticians/ optometrists/Jesustician, giving out glasses to correct and improve vision with it while ophthalmologist/Jesus is closely associated with or suggestive of "spit on mud and rub it on eyes" to correct the defect, whether its cataracts, nearsightedness, farsightedness or whatnot

budaatum:
"Take advantage" of a pair at the Jesustician and you too will understand what it is that you see.

People do not need an ophthalmologist to carry out surgery on their eyes nor Jesus to spit into mud and rub it on their eyes, if they already are seeing men clearly for what really they are and not seeing men as trees. Ever since the surgery on my eyes by the ophthalmologist, I had no more use for daily glasses except the reading glasses ones.

MuttleyLaff:

About those who have eyes, well they are using extraordinary means of seeing in the dark, by way of remarkable means, took advantage of the Jesustician. They didnt even need jesusglasses, because all Jesus did was spit into mud and rub it on their eyes, so they now see men clearly and no more see men as like trees etcetera.

There is nothing extraordinary about our means muttley. The definition of jesusglasses is "spit on mud". "Take advantage" of a pair at the Jesustician and you too will understand what it is that you see.

budaatum:
No muttley, it is you who perhaps should be less hasty! Not everyone is in your "world of a dark room, with an unknown Creator"!

"¹⁹Then they took him to the high council of the city. “Come and tell us about this new teaching,” they said.
²⁰“You are saying some rather strange things, and we want to know what it’s all about.”
²¹(It should be explained that all the Athenians as well as the foreigners in Athens seemed to spend all their time discussing the latest ideas.)
²²So Paul, standing before the council,e addressed them as follows:
“Men of Athens, I notice that you are very religious in every way,
²³for as I was walking along I saw your many shrines.
And one of your altars had this inscription on it: ‘To an Unknown God.’ (i.e. unknown Creator)
This God, whom you worship without knowing, is the one I’m telling you about."
- Acts 17:19-23

buddatum, though I never did say that but apparently those in Athens at least were anyway

budaatum:
You mentioned the blind, and did not mention those who have eyes that work and have been to the Jesustician and got jesusglases and know what mountain to climb up to look

"Some others, look towards, very unusual and/or remarkable means to help them see in to unknown Creator and world of a dark room, while another others (e.g. science) thinks, fairk that extraodinary shenanigans stuff, that they, all and just by themselves, will figure out what's about the unknown Creator and whats with all this world of a dark room of ours is about."
- Re: Life From Life? by MuttleyLaff: 3:47pm ©

You this my budaatum friend man, do I always have to be redirecting you huh? I never anywhere mentioned any blind, you must be seeing double or things. You do know that, not seeing in the dark, doesnt necessarily mean one is a registered blind person.

About those who have eyes, well they are using extraordinary means of seeing in the dark, by way of remarkable means, took advantage of the Jesustician. They didnt even need jesusglasses, because all Jesus did was spit into mud and rub it on their eyes, so they now see men clearly and no more see men as like trees etcetera.

Just so you don't confuse your understanding of my views with my views:

budaatum:

Yes, I am difficult to understand, and I mean all three.

If a person does not put on the right glasses and read with the right mind, the Quran is not the Word of God for that person but just some stupid words written by a fool who deludedly imagined angels taking to him. But with the right mind one sees the hands of God writing it and it being printed on God's own printing press in heaven.

You might want to reread this, and you may want to learn about jesusglasses here.

usermane:


If you say so. Here are his views;

Qur'an is not the word of God, but the words Jubril revealed to Muhammad.

The Qur'an is the word of God.

There is a chance the Qur'an may be distorted.

usermane:
@budaatum, you're difficult to understand. You said earlier on the Qur'an is not the word of God. Then you said it is the word of God, now you say Muhammad heard it from Angel?

Yes, I am difficult to understand, and I mean all three.

If a person does not put on the right glasses and read with the right mind, the Quran is not the Word of God for that person but just some stupid words written by a fool who deludedly imagined angels taking to him. But with the right mind one sees the hands of God writing it and it being printed on God's own printing press in heaven.

You might want to reread this, and you may want to learn about jesusglasses here.

budaatum:

Lol my Lord. You might have gone up the wrong mountain like I did many times, and without first visiting the jesustician to get a pair of jesusglasses, a direction to which I include this link, though couched in my own ignorance.

I assure you. In fact, no! Let me not bother to assume to assure you my Lord, since it appears that you already know that when the eye is ready the mud spitter would turn up to spit on mud and rub it in your eye, and you, my Lord, will see.

I cannot, myself, believe that buda prays for and preaches to my Lord!

Pray, do tell him where the right mountain is... Perhaps I might follow.

LordReed:


The problem is I went my dear buda and saw nothing. The mountain did not smoke and a voice did not trumpet. Which is why I say I must be blind to the god. Please pray for me dear buda mayhap some kind stranger shall spit on mud and use it to heal my eyes.

Lol my Lord. You might have gone up the wrong mountain like I did many times, and without first visiting the jesustician to get a pair of jesusglasses, a direction to which I include this link, though couched in my own ignorance.

I assure you. In fact, no! Let me not bother to assume to assure you my Lord, since it appears that you already know that when the eye is ready the mud spitter would turn up to spit on mud and rub it in your eye, and you, my Lord, will see.

I cannot, myself, believe that buda prays for and preaches to my Lord!

Shepherd00:

Buda, if you care to listen, everyone has a story. A journey. I have mind. I believe mine set a precedence that occasioned my firm belief in Jesus. At 10, I saw a dead Child raised back to life, she is still alive today. That got stuck in my mind. I have seen raw manifestation of God's power that boggles the mind, these kept me asking questions and from the Word, I see that it is Jesus and that He is still alive in people, even Me.

Buda, I am sorry am going to say this, pls don't take it wrongly. But you were raised in a family where Religion was a mere ceremony. It's not your fault you were a Child. Church going was something that must be done on Sunday. No expectations, No longing for an experience in those who looked up to.

In our formative ages, what we observe in our immediate families, environments and even the kind of churches we attend, stakes our foundations. If you grew up in a family that merely talked about God but did not take Him seriously, did not teach you to involve Him in your personal Life, hence, never saw any real manifestation of the power of God that kept you wondering, you'd grow up looking at God like Santa Claus who comes to you once every year.

I have read through your journey I never saw any personal soul encounter with Jesus Himself. I read you talking about people. You tried to See Jesus from other people's eyes Buda, and that is idol worship.

If you spend enough time reading the Bible when you came of age with the intention of seeking the Mind of God concerning what was bothering you at the time, you would've laughed at Rashidi.

You'd have prayed for the Misguided greed-laden politicians who seek to control other human beings against Gods original mandate for Man, hence force the weak to fight and kill each other in other for them to keep the territory for themselves.

If you'd read the Bible opening up your Spiritual ears to hear the voice of the Word of God, The Holy Spirit wld ve spoken to you and you'd ve understood why things on earth are now Topsy-Turvy.
But alas, you rationalized the scriptures and what you were left with was mere letters of the Word which killed you eventually.

God is not responsible for the evil and chaos in the world Buda, Man is, Greed, jealousy, clamour for control is.
There are two kinds of people on earth, those who say "Father, thy Will be done, and those to whom God says 'Okay then, have it your way'". And this world has rebelled so much so that, it seems God has said to it 'Okay then, have it your way', because he doesn't strife with any man. Choose Ye this day...

The danger is in apportioning blame to God for the misdeeds of others, and that is what so many atheists are doing now. Most are offended at God because He does not interfere, funnily they are at present still steep in disobedience, yet expects God to wipe away hunger when there's so much in the hands of the leaders who shd give out.

They expect God to remove sicknesses like HIV or Cancer from their lives, while men are still have sex with men and people with animals.
They celebrate sin and unrighteousness, they fight anyone who points them out. Some even go to the point of falsifying Scriptures to backup their evils,

They are still taking in toxic substances that causes Cancer, they do all manner of things that works against Nature, yet shake their punny fists at God. Pity, as though they can fight the weakest Angel in Heaven.

I agree that I was a product of my environment Shepherd, that's why I'm bothering to tell you about my wwwwwh education so that perhaps you might understand and have compassion, but you refuse to look through the love glasses that the Lord God gave you.

I did not blame God for the misfortunes in the world. I was an atheist. There was no God to blame! But even then I believed that if they read the Bible they merely claimed to believe in, and understood it, and lived it, the world, Nigeria at the time, would have like a miracle turned to heaven! But here we are, so many decades later and it burns more that it ever did.

The difference now is that I am reading it again with the jesusglasses the Lord God gave me. You should rejoice! Aleluya amen.

Ihedinobi3:

Very well then. As long as we both know where we each stand.

I'm not having that, ihe. You way smarter than that and I can't stop learning. When you look with jesusglasses you'd see we being friends, you and I. Lovers, even. That's the Jesus stand that made you reach out which is appreciated.

Why isn't there an I love you emoji on here in fact!

No one wins. Not the atheist nor the theist. For in truth we are the people of Babel suffering from confusio linguarum. (It's at this point that the theists should mutter, "Come Jesus. Come soon", but in the past have pitiably resorted to stupidity. May the Holy Spirit restrain them).

Fools. That is what atheists are, for they abandon entirely the Power of God. While the theist refuses to commit the sin of Adam and Eve and become naked, the atheist plucks off the fruit and eats and yet dangles about naked, the eating - nay! gorging, on the fruits of trees of knowledge of good and evil nourishes them not. If it did, they would understand that they argue with those who read only bread and are undernourished unlike them.

Fools. And even moreso in fact, are the theists, their measure being the Lord God Almighty. Is it a lie that the Peaceful are Blessed? Is it not by your fruit that you are known? Yet one finds many of God who would claim to have jesusglasses and wear them yet be blinded to the forest in their own eyes. Slap them, and instantly would they slap back twice as hard and on both your cheeks - their other cheek they would not turn. Some even slap first and claim they do so in the name of God! They claim to have gone to the Jesustician to get jesusglasses so they can see, but more blind do they become for they think they see in Spirit but they see not at all.

No, no one wins when people suffer from confusio linguarum except the Lord of Babel. If jesusj.nr had proposed this as the imperfect Word of God in the beginning and prior to the arrival of Jesus the Christ I would have understood, though I would insist that the Word of God is perfect, it is we humans who lack understanding.

Imagine "the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech". Does that not sound like a blissful world where the lion and lambs live in peace? They'd even learn to subdue the earth and "make brick, and burn them throughly and had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter". So what do they do? They decide to "build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth".

Say we decided such a thing in a city in our homeland. The traffic would have to flow well, water run to everyone's home, electricity twenty four seven, no one starving no one homeless no one stupid because we are busy building a Godly City. Then, "the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which we children of humans built. And the LORD said, "Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech."

What? You did not say, "What the fuq God?" You should! Peaceful people, all "is one", getting along nicely, building something together, then some God decides to infect them with confusio linguarum so they are restrained. Is it not the Spirit of God that is within them that this text is telling us God decided to restrain? God will make us not miss the guises of satan and bow down and worship evil! Yea, I insist that it is not the Word of God that is imperfect, but the understanding of we humans, both theists and atheists!

No one wins when people refuse to try to understand what the other is saying. No one wins when the intention of your words are not to be understood and to inform and to educate, but to be believed. In fact, the devil alone wins when people are infected with confusio linguarum and there is division between atheists and theists. You could easily tell this by noting how confounded and scattered and fruitless and unBabelic we are upon face of all the earth.

So, Come Jesus, come now and turn us into perfected salt so that we will be unconfounded and unscattered and fruitful and Babelic so we may build towers and win to the Glory of the Lord God Almighty.

The Spirit within you (be it theist or atheistic) is your guide in understanding.

P.s. Op, I hate "us or them threads". This one though, somehow!? Thanks very much for it.

Everyone else. The temptation will overcome you such that you assume to perfectly understand what you just read without feeling the need to have specific bits of its imperfection explained to you. My advice is, resist temptation and request clarification first. You will be blessing buda.

paxonel:
if any christian want atheists see God by all means,even when they dont want to see any evidence of his existence, it is wrong for that christian to do that.

Very wrong indeed. So wrong that I'm going to begin calling such people bokochristian haram!

paxonel:
and that is the only place the evidence lies, where atheists hasn't gone and got.
Now, it will be ok for them to say they have not gone and they dont want to go, therefore they dont know what theists are talking about like the agnostics have done

How can they possibly say they have not gone to the 'Jesustician for jesusglasses' when they have no evidence whatsoever that such a thing and place exists?

paxonel:

But they should remain neutral.

Really? Why?

paxonel:
I tell you one truth, the human mind is convinced by what he has seen, hear and read.
If theists have read their holy book, it will only take atheists to equally read that same holy book for them to have a critical mind to dispute what theists have believed. Otherwise, its of no use countering them by the atheistic state of mind.

I disagree with your "atheist mind". Even Christians read their own holy book and disagree, how much less atheists. The Christian just hasn't presented God in such a way that they may see. Perhaps they should try harder.

paxonel:
The question is, are there anything like that in human history that someone will predict something, after 2000 years the whole world is seeing the evidence of truth in the prediction?
I am yet to see anything like that, if you have any, please let me know.

There are many texts, even much older than some parts of the Bible that predicted what is happening today. Try reading the works of Plato for starts. You'd think God wrote it himself.

paxonel:
i will see how far nigeria as a nation will go, when people who were supposed to grow up to become tommorrow leaders do not understand their history

O, not only "their own history", but the history of the universe as well. But, do not worry. We are here in the University of Nairaland preaching history to one another.

budaatum:

This is one of those things that Christians do that I find comical, they bait atheists, and I wonder why. The atheist says they see no God or spirits but you want them to say the things they don't see and have no evidence for, exists. Why, pax? Can the blind witness to those who see? Besides, does anyone "see" beyond the physical?

if any christian want atheists see God by all means,even when they dont want to see any evidence of his existence, it is wrong for that christian to do that.

You missed out 'going to the Jesustician for jesusglasses', which the atheist hasn't gone and got.

and that is the only place the evidence lies, where atheists hasn't gone and got.
Now, it will be ok for them to say they have not gone and they dont want to go, therefore they dont know what theists are talking about like the agnostics have done

Actually, many. Too many to list. The inability of the atheist to see God or spirits is confirm by what they have read and the fact that Christians take their blindness seriously thereby affirming what they can't see. Or would you rather they lie that God and spirits they haven't seen exists?

certainly not!
But they should remain neutral.

I tell you one truth, the human mind is convinced by what he has seen, hear and read.
If theists have read their holy book, it will only take atheists to equally read that same holy book for them to have a critical mind to dispute what theists have believed. Otherwise, its of no use countering them by the atheistic state of mind.

Atheist do not depend on instinct, paxonel You hear them yelling, "show me the evidence for your God!"

the evidence the op presented is that Jesus christ in the bible predicted that christianity was going to be the largest religion, that was approximately 2000 years ago.
We are in 2019 today, we can google it. Christianity is actually the religion with the largest adherents today.

The question is, are there anything like that in human history that someone will predict something, after 2000 years the whole world is seeing the evidence of truth in the prediction?
I am yet to see anything like that, if you have any, please let me know.

Atheists depend on evidence of their senses and will always present it when asked for it, I can vouch for that.

evidence from senses isn't enough.
Records and reality are more reliable.
When holy books from theists serves as record, and that record points to a reality such as someone predicting something in the holy book and that thing became reality after a long period,then i dont know how senses can explain that?

Who's record and for whom?

By the way everyone, something needs to be done about history not being taught in Nigerian schools!

I got tired of the rest!

i will see how far nigeria as a nation will go, when people who were supposed to grow up to become tommorrow leaders do not understand their history

paxonel:
You mean, there are people who can see beyond this physical existence?
How did they come to this ultimate conclusion that God do not exist or there are no spirit God?

This is one of those things that Christians do that I find comical, they bait atheists, and I wonder why. The atheist says they see no God or spirits but you want them to say the things they don't see and have no evidence for, exists. Why, pax? Can the blind witness to those who see? Besides, does anyone "see" beyond the physical?

paxonel:
How did theists come to the conclusion that a spirit God exist?
It's simple!
They saw it in their holy books and believe that he exist.

You missed out 'going to the Jesustician for jesusglasses', which the atheist hasn't gone and got.

paxonel:
Do atheists have some kind of record or book to depend on, in order to acertain their position that there is no spirit God?

Actually, many. Too many to list. The inability of the atheist to see God or spirits is confirm by what they have read and the fact that Christians take their blindness seriously thereby affirming what they can't see. Or would you rather they lie that God and spirits they haven't seen exists?

paxonel:
Its so frustrating that there is no such record among atheists,they depend on their instinct which is not reliable.

Atheist do not depend on instinct, paxonel You hear them yelling, "show me the evidence for your God!" Atheists depend on evidence of their senses and will always present it when asked for it, I can vouch for that.

paxonel:
And you know how important a record of what has happened in the past is necessary to sustain an idea or belief.

Who's record and for whom?

By the way everyone, something needs to be done about history not being taught in Nigerian schools!

I got tired of the rest!

HappyPagan:


"spirit and truth" is vague and ambiguous, at least enough to let in crooks, vampires and old men with Messiah complex.

As muttley would say, "when you know, you know". Those who have visited the Jesustician and paid for jesusglasses which they now wear would tell the difference.

budaatum:

And the so called Christians will be arguing with you that what they see with their jesusglasses, you too should see it with your blind eyes. And when you can't see it, they will claim you are the fool!

Arranger, stop blaming your unseeability on the thing you don't see when it is your eyes that you should get jesusglasses for so you can see! If you are interested.

As to you Christians, you are the fools! Fools for telling blind people to see what only the unblind jesusglasses wearing people alone can see! Jesus filled people would direct them to the optician!

I'd rather be blind then....

TheArranger:

Mind if i ask for this evidence? I'm interested in it

And the so called Christians will be arguing with you that what they see with their jesusglasses, you too should see it with your blind eyes. And when you can't see it, they will claim you are the fool!

Arranger, stop blaming your unseeability on the thing you don't see when it is your eyes that you should get jesusglasses for so you can see! If you are interested.

As to you Christians, you are the fools! Fools for telling blind people to see what only the unblind jesusglasses wearing people alone can see! Jesus filled people would direct them to the optician!