₦airaland Forum

R.I.P., may God help your family to fill the void you left. A plot of land for sale very close to the main road, at Falegan along Ilawe Road, Ado Ekiti, contact me for more details.

This will serve as a deterrent to all law breakers. No social gathering! No social gathering!! They won't hear, when they fall into trouble now they'll start disturbing people on social media how government and NCDC neglected them. Anyway a plot of land for sale very close to the main road, at Falegan along Ilawe Road, Ado Ekiti, contact me for more details.

careerwoman:
Yes, you have the right to discuss your finances with your employer. But why would you publish a comparison of salary between doctors and other health workers? Your ogas dragged doctors into the matter in the first place. I heard the right information about this strike even before it started. See, what your JOHESU ogas are after is for the removal of relativity and pay parity with doctors amongst other things. They were offered a salary raise at the first negotiation but they refused because it will automatically increase the doctor's salary. It's the relativity that's their problem not the salary raise (they haven't told you the truth). They know they have the numbers and will easily manipulate their junior members who already have had a bad experience with proud and poorly behaved doctors. When a doctor is proud or disrespectful, it's his personality and his problem. The profession is not to blame. All doctors are not proud or badly behaved. Stop the generalisation. That's the problem in the country. We make hasty generalisation of a particular group when we allow our emotions cloud our judgement.
Not all your members are saints either and some of them are also very rude and disrespectful. I've had my own good and bad experiences too..

My team had an emergency surgery one morning and asked that I go to the lab for an urgent PCV to be done for the patient. I took the sample myself and went to the lab.. I met a fellow med lab intern, greeted her very well ooo (because once they know you're a doctor, they toughen up) begged her to help me do the PCV. This madam blatantly refused saying that I would have to wait for the next person on duty who will come an hour later. I begged and begged but she didn't move a muscle (Simple PCV that I can do myself). I left the room and met her colleague on the corridor, ask that one politely and she didn't even allow me finish. She immediately took the sample and within 15-20 mins gave me the result.
So you see, doctors aren't the only ones to blame..
Mutual respect is key!!

I want you to know that this fight about emoluments have been on ground for a long time, but let me tell you the most recent episode, the strike JOHESU embarked on in 2016 was to push their grievances, the FG yielded, and promised to effect the payment from Sept last year or thereabout, JOHESU worried why it was not effected made it findings and found out NMA has hands in it, so JOHESU has a form of SOS had to publish that so as to inform the general public what they have been enduring so as to press home their demand. And as far as am concerned, there is nothing wrong with that, it is false that JOHESU wants equal pay with Doctors as NMA is saying because I. The amount JOHESU wants was also published, and it is not at par with NMA's. ii. The professional bodies under JOHESU (Nurses, Pharmacist, MLS and others) do not even get equal pay so how on earth would they be clamoring for equal pay with Doctors. I want you to know that disrespect is not only in name calling, or body language. That Doctors even see other licensed Professionals as people who don't treat patients or irrelevant and feels they are all encompassing and can do every man's job is equally disrespect. A Doctor would write a referral to a Physiotherapist and include in it the type of treatment that should be given the patient, I wonder why the Doctor will even refer in the first place he should have treated the patient himself since he knows what to do. This is disrespectful, the Physiotherapist is trained, licensed and certified to do whatever he deems fit, he is aware of his duties and responsibilities for God sake, he is not a TECHNICIAN, to be dictated to, he has gone through anatomy, physiology, biochemistry, pharmacology for a number of years any other courses DEEMED FIT for his training and thereafter a Licensed and certified Professional to practice. The attitude you got from the MLS intern you referred to though wrong, I condemn it, but is a resultant effect of what she sees Doctors do to other professionals long before now. Do you know there are Doctors that still write referrals with prescription sheets? Even when the referral sheet is available? It is disrespectful, a lot of issues needs to be resolved. Until Doctors see patient care as multidisciplinary and that patient condition dictates who the head of a Medical team will be then, will we get it right, and there will be harmony amongst all professionals but if they still feel they are all in all, we are in for a long thing.

P.S.: You will be the first Doctor to approach issues politely on this thread, may be you serve as a point of reference to other arrogant ones. Once again I commend your maturity.

careerwoman:
Very saddening... A record officer claims he's on strike and refuses to bring out folders of old patients during clinic or open folders for new patients. However, his aunt suffers a cardiac arrest and he immediately shows up and opens a folder for her to see the doctor in the clinic. My consultant was very unhappy with him. If you're on strike, stay on strike. Don't offer preferential service. Better still, take her to your ogas at the top (consultant pharmacist and nurses) since they have said that they can manage patients without doctors too. The masses are the ones at the receiving end of this strike not the FG or the doctors.
Everyone should stop being greedy or selfish and look at things logically. Go back to the negotiation table and reason with FG on significant things like career progression, more funding of the health sector, and restructuring of the health system. Misinforming the public and insulting doctors on social media doesn't make you any better to take up higher (admin) positions. It simply means that if given the opportunity to head the sector, everything will go haywire. If you don't respect doctors now, how will you respect them when you're in an admin position..

Doctors should respect themselves and see if other health professionals won't reciprocate, why poking their nose into what does not concern them. JOHESU approached FG with some yearnings not the NMA, why will NMA tell the FG not to yield to their yearnings? The Minister of Health which has turned himself to Minister of Doctors came out to say JOHESU wants to be at par with Doctors in respect to salaries and emoluments. Can't JOHESU ask for his right again? What has NMA has to do with JOHESU plight? and who is NMA to dictate to the FG whose his to answer or not? NMA has gone on industrial action countless times and JOHESU or any health union has never for once told FG not to honour their quest, the sky is wide for any bird to fly. If you feel you are not well remunerated you have the right to discuss with your employer. Basic! If you are sincere with yourself you should know where this imbroglio emanated from. Let Doctors respect themselves and other professionals rather than despising and poking their nose into what does not concern them and see if they won't get respect in return. But if they feel they can continue to monopolize the system, they'll be given a good run for their money. Gracias

Thanks18:
Pls answer what is a disease? According to US National library of Medicine, a disease is any condition which results in the disorder of a structure or function in a living organism that is not due to any external injury. Going by this definition, a physiotherapist has a clinical skills and autonomy to assess, diagnose and treat disease using physical means. In stroke, we treat and rehabilitate but there are some MSK, we treat and improve quality of life. Don't be arguing blind for this thread is not a secondary school debate where people beat around the bush for academic exercise. Rather argue with your books and keyboard by asking google.

Please let's leave him to his ignorance, I had told him earlier on to go check what a disease is, a supposed intelligent physician would have at least make findings or enlighten himself with what he doesn't know rather than feigning his ignorance and living on what he's been told or fed with, may be we should tell them it's not business as usual, we've woken up, we have new generations of Professionals now, not the one they run over years back, nobody can paint blue as black for anybody. NOT AGAIN! These has been their problem right from onset, instead of them to bring themselves low and learn NO! rather they will keep boasting and Doctoring on ignorance and it's been affecting them. WHEN ONE THINKS HE KNOWS EVERYTHING AND KEEPS RANTING "STOOFS". The other two up there said an HIV patient cannot have stroke secondary to meningoencephalitis and one was even trying to build STOOF where there exists none by saying blah blah blah "there are diseases HIV patients can have" or whatever, have not seen anyone of them respond on these thread any longer I know they would have made research to visit the link I shared and buried their head in shame. That is same way they formulate false diagnoses and diseases processes to poor and ignorant patients, these one too said gait abnormality, hemiplegia and spasticity are not diseases, then what are they? Good health? He has not even checked what a disease is or care to know what Physical Therapy is all about. May be he's been fed too that all PT's do is just to carry hand and leg or PM. Laughs...

Hairyrapunzel:
The medical doctor diagnoses and treats while you rehabilitate. The only drugs you are allowed to prescribe are over the counter medications which any body can get without a prescription.
Hope you know you ain't treating any disease?

May be you should go find out what a disease is. A disease covers the presentation or complication that comes with it which we treat/make better/rehabilitate the individual so how do you mean we don't treat, we treat my brother but not with drugs. Our profession (PHYSICAL THERAPIST) has said it all (PHYSICAL TREATMENT). A patient has CVD comes down with hemiplegia, you do your treatment by prescribing medications, I treat using physical means. Don't forget the patient well being is OUR (you and me) utmost goal because if there are no patients in the first place there won't be you and me. So how do you mean we do not both treat? Are you even aware some of our treatment helps to rejig/make some centers of the brain to compensate for the loss of the erstwhile affected centers of the brain? I believe you know much about the NIEROPLASTICITY of the brain?

Hairyrapunzel:
Thank God you did not come here to say you prescribe drugs.
At least the patient is alive to come for rehabilitation abi is it people you guys rehabilitate? Now will know that the doctor restores the life of the patient so you guys can work on a living Patient.
Physiotherapist will come into play when the physician decides the patient is ready for it.
At least you say pure medicine. I guess you consider your physiotherapy adulterated medicine.
Since you don't prescribe drugs or monitor the disease process, the doctor is responsible for this part. The patient with HIV meningoencephalitis who you say progressed to stroke will keep deteriorating if the doctors stop seeing him. Don't come here and give us lecture about you bringing the patient to the nearest state before the ailment when you don't know the pains people went through to keep that patient alive. You just want to undermine the doctors position in his patient's care so as to elevate your own.
Is it a dead Patient you will rehabilitate?

.

Please read well before responding a patient that has suffered hemiplegia or paresis, would have series of. muscular deformity ranging from flexor spasticity on his UL, extensor spasticity on the LL, might develop balance and coordination problems depending on the area of the brain affected and so on... is it your drugs that will bring him working on his feet again? and do his normal daily activities he does before? (that is what I meant by nearest state of health or function before the ailment). Even after the patient did not die like you pointed out because of your drug intervention go and ask them how they feel with their gait presentation or does your drug also correct gait pattern? Look none of the health PROFESSIONALS are castovers like I pointed out earlier, the health management team is patient-condition-specific. It will be an understatement or insincerity for anybody to feel he/she can function without the other or rubbish other people's work or profession. I have friends that are Medical Doctors and some if them appreciate our work and even eulogise us, some even come for consultation, this is the way it should be not the boasting and egoistic manner it is now. Everybody has it's own job description and jurisdiction and his aware if it.

Hairyrapunzel:
What ignorance? Is it not the doctor that will decide whether or not a Patient needs rehabilitation? Is it a dead body you want to rehabilitate?

Would you close your eyes and pretend you didn't see the ignorance your brothers danilmo and Boldest just showed up there? I painted a case scenario of a HIV patient coming down with meningoencephalitis and developed stroke, they were questioning the possibility of these scenario. Are these not the ones that treat or do diagnoses? If you follow my submissions right from the start of this thread I have never undermined any Doctor, all have been doing is correct some notions or enlighten. In my last submission I pointed out and corrected the notion that it is not only a Medical Doctor that diagnoses or treat a patient, we have our diagnoses, treatment plan and means of management just as you do. We also make prescriptions. And have not in any way equated both professions but rather enlighten tbiae who care to know.

Thanks18:
You just displayed your ignorance here while trying to argue fact. And you ended up saying nothing. For your sake, argue with your keyboard by asking google. Ignorance coupled with arrogance and closed mind is worse than death. I am really tired responding to eNMA charlatan like you.

Don't mind them, have given them a challenge they should be a shame of their selves if they don't know common complications then what do they know? Bragging and bossing on emptiness. I am also tired arguing with them let them continue displaying their ignorance for the whole world to see.

danilmo:
that nigga is a consultant o
check google and see what johesu consultant mean


walk out of thread biko..

lot of jobless johesu consultant here,
oh I forgot they are on strike

Please prove me wrong, If I am, one just wonder the kind of Doctors we produce here in Nigeria little wonder the decay in the health sector. Bro, the two of you are not worth the license or the Title you parade. Go and do your research and bury your head in shame. I repeat shame. Also don't forget to find out the WHO definition of stroke or any definition you find around.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971214000113

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/healthlibrary/conditions/nervous_system_disorders/bacterial_meningitis_134,26

https://www.ninds.nih.gov/Disorders/Patient-Caregiver-Education/Fact-Sheets/Meningitis-and-Encephalitis-Fact-Sheet

boldest:
these are the kind of doctors of johesu nigeria will be seeing ....meningoencepahalitis becoming worse and turns to stroke just like that ....first of all I doubt if you know the possibilities of various dx in HIv and thank God u attest to the fact that the drug makes d patient better ....so he is alive to visit d so called Dr of physiotherapy ...

Please prove me wrong, If I am, one just wonder the kind of Doctors we produce here in Nigeria little wonder the decay in the health sector. Bro, the two of you are not worth the license or the Title you parade. Go and do your research and bury your head in shame. I repeat shame. Also don't forget to find out the WHO definition of stroke or any definition you find around.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971214000113

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/healthlibrary/conditions/nervous_system_disorders/bacterial_meningitis_134,26

https://www.ninds.nih.gov/Disorders/Patient-Caregiver-Education/Fact-Sheets/Meningitis-and-Encephalitis-Fact-Sheet

Deniceone:
Meaning the patient belongs to every member of the health team. if your mistake costs the patient, you go down for it! Patient belongs to everybody and to nobody!

Don't mind them, on ward basis, the case note is always there to make clarification(s) as to where the mistake emanates. Same Doctors that claim they take responsibility for any mistake done will be quick to point to other Professionals as the origin of the mistake/death (in any case it is) as the case may be but be mute if it emanates from their treatment. Yet they run or tell the public they take responsibilities of any mistake solely.

Hairyrapunzel:
At the end of the day both doctor and pharmacist penalized. Not the pharmacist alone. The doctor is always held accountable for his prescription. The pharmacist had a right not to dispense the drug and contact the doctor yet he chose not to do so. He dispensed knowing the drug was wrong. In this case he was not supposed to dispense and was also meant to call the doctor who sent the patient.
A pharmacist can never be penalized alone in these kind of cases. The doctor always goes down.
It is still the doctor's patient because he is charge of managing the case.
This is where team work comes into play. If a pharmacist doesn't feel a prescribed drug is not right, the doctor is contacted and it is at the doctor's discretion to review the prescription. If the pharmacist is not still convinced he has the option of not dispensing gbam.

The supposed or the best practice that you painted up there cannot or do not happen here in Nigeria the Doctor feels he is the boss and therefore his prescription should not be altered, even when sometimes the drug-drug combination might not be right, one of the reasons why a lot of patients die or leave hospitals with conditions they don't come with initially.

Hairyrapunzel:
Is prescribing now a job description? For a prescription to be given a diagnosis has to be made. That is an individual is confirmed to have an illness therefore, a treatment plan is laid down. Only the doctor does this.
Pharmacists don't do this, lab scientists don't do this, nurses don't do this, physiotherapists don't do this, radiographers don't only doctors. Try prescribing for an individual that has no prescription from a doctor in developed countries and see if they will not jail you. Are we saying you don't contribute to patient care? It's obvious you guys like twisting things. The doctor makes the decision in managing a patient. He names the disease and lays out the treatment plan. Abi you want to start managing disease you don't know jack about? You make me laugh.
Wanting to do a job that's not your own because you want people to see you as something you are not. Mtcheww. Prescriber of the universe.

What you don't understand is there are conditions amenable to Pure Medicine as well as other professionals too, also when you talk about prescription, prescription is not only the tablet, or ample or what have you, prescription includes ointments, gels and so on. I give you a case scenario this time In Physiotherapy, A HIV patient may develop meningoencephalitis and may worsen over time and come down with Stroke, what you guys do is administer drugs so as to rescue him/her from condition, the Physiotherapist is concerned with rehabilitation to bring the patient to his nearest or same self before the ailment. He clerks the patient (history, assessment, diagnoses, plan of treatment and means of management makes prescription (not necessarily tablet or ample or what have you). So that it is only Doctors that make prescription, diagnosis or plan of management is an understatement.

drI:
Strangely a patient can go to the hospital, see a doctor, get fully treated and leave without the other health workers. Not because they are unimportant but because the doctor has been trained to do everything other health workers can do and much more.
For instance the teaching hospitals are operational and functioning fully while JOHESU have been on strike. We are even carrying out major surgeries without JOHESU. What else is required to prove my point?

The reason any patient will go to whatever hospital without seeing any other health PROFESSIONAL aside the Doctor is condition specific which you know quite well. Take for instance a patients with musculoskeletal deformities or abnormalities needs to see a Physiotherapists, but because most of Nigeria patients/clients are ignorant, they feel/think you have to see a Medical Doctor for everything, in developed climes, the populace would have made a research about their symptoms, presentation and management before visiting any health professional and that is why in those countries, any instance of mismanagement is known by the patients and can sue or be reported to appropriate authorities because he/she is aware of the management beforehand. So your assertion that all patients or supposed patients comes to the Doctor at first contact basis is due to ignorance and so does not hold water.

Revisiting The NMA Strike -* The Candid Opinion Of A UK-Based Doctor By *Dr. Ijabla Raymond* Although I practise abroad, I should point out that this strike affects me too. My family and friends all live in Nigeria. I feel compelled to write on this subject because of its seriousness and the dearth of objective analyses on our social media. It is an emotive subject for both *NMA* and *JOHESU* members, and I can understand why punches fly around, but both parties must rise above petty and emotional considerations if we are to find a way forward. For clarification purposes, the *NMA* represents medical doctors whilst *JOHESU* is a union of all health workers who are not doctors. The NMA has a list of *24 demands* but I will limit myself to the most contentious ones. At this stage, it is probably best that I introduce myself. _*I am medical doctor of Nigerian heritage practising in the UK.*_ *WHO SHOULD HEAD THE HOSPITAL* There is no contention – the medical doctor is the head of the *clinical team.* He/she leads the ward rounds, clinics, surgical operations, multidisciplinary meetings and so on because the ultimate and final responsibility for patient care rests in his/her hands. The headship of the hospital is a different matter. This is an *administrative* office, which needs not be occupied by a medical doctor. This job is better in the hands of people who have administrative or business management skills. _This is the case in countries like the UK, Canada and the US,_ which heavily influence our health system. Therefore, it is difficult to reason with the NMA why this job should be the exclusive right of medical doctors. *NON-MEDICAL CONSULTANTS* The doctor-patient ratio in Nigeria is _dangerously low._ In my view, the roles of non-medical professionals such as nurses, physiotherapists, pharmacists etc need to expand to cope with the demands on doctors. It is important that this is done in a _safe way_ by providing the appropriate level of training for these individuals. *This is the case in countries such as the UK, Canada and the US where consultant nurses, pharmacists etc have existed for a few decades now.* I do not see any problem with non-medical consultants as long as these individuals are appropriately trained and can practise both competently and safely within an *agreed framework* . These professionals have separate (but complimentary) job descriptions and their roles are not designed to replace or dispense with the services of the doctor. If this arrangement enhances patient care, then where is the problem with it? The NMA needs to demonstrate to the public and to the government how the creation of these non- medical consultant positions will adversely affect patient care, otherwise, its demands will be perceived as obstructing the professional development of JOHESU members, and I don’t think this is helpful to anybody. *HAZARD ALLOWANCE* The types of hazard and the level to which healthcare workers are exposed vary considerably and depend on the type of job they do. For instance, psychiatrists are hardly exposed to body fluids and their risks for contracting diseases like HIV and hepatitis are much less than for a theatre scrub nurse. The risk of physical assault by a patient is higher for a psychiatrist than for a surgeon. And because psychiatric nurses spend more time with patients, their risks of assault are arguably higher than those of consultant psychiatrists. The people who work in radiology departments such as radiologists, radiographers, nurses, porters and so on have greater exposure to radioactive materials than everyone else in the hospital. The current health hazard allowance of N5,000 is unconscionable – it needs to increase. However, I think it is imperative to get an independent risk assessor for impartial advice. *MISCELLANEOUS* I have read far too many emotional arguments on these issues and very little of an objective discourse. It is important that I draw your attention to a few of these. What has become obvious is the lack of understanding of the *concept of teamwork* . There is a pervasive notion among doctors that the other healthcare workers are there to serve them. JOHESU members think that doctors have become too conceited for their own good and are determined to put them in their “places”. *The most important person in the hospital is the patient* – it is *not* the _doctor_ , _nurse_ , _pharmacist_ or _laboratory scientist_ or anyone else. Every team member is important and must be respected, including the people who do the least clinical jobs like cleaning. I don’t imagine that any hospital will remain open for longer than a week if its cleaners went on strike and dirt was allowed to accumulate to the point where it constitutes a health risk. I have heard so many anecdotal accounts of nurses not joining doctors on ward rounds or pharmacists altering prescriptions without first discussing these with the prescribing doctors or laboratory scientist slapping doctors; and these accounts are being given as reasons why doctors must continue to head hospitals. These are *disciplinary matters,* which should be managed according to existing procedures. These excuses are emotional and should not be used to block the professional development of others. The other reason I have heard doctors give for not wanting our non-medical colleagues to bear the "consultant" title is the fear that patients will confuse them or anybody else in a white-coat for a doctor and give such people an excuse for autonomous practice. This reason is *not good enough* because this problem can be solved by wearing names badges and/or colour coded uniforms. Also health professionals should introduce themselves to patients at the start of consultations. But more significantly, this can be an issue of regulation - any one found to be (criminally) practising over and beyond their job description, competence level or professional registration becomes liable to disciplinary procedures. Our health system suffers from poor regulation. This is why anyone can open a chemist and dole out antibiotics indiscriminately. It is the reason doctors are scared that consultant pharmacists, nurses and physiotherapists will steal their patients. But it is also the reason why doctors may recommend an operation to a patient where none is necessary just so they can charge more. This is a problem that is in urgent need of attention. I hope that this something both NMA & JOHESU will flag up in the near future. Another recurrent theme in these debates is the abuse of junior doctors by both medical and non-medical staff, which appears to be endemic. There is a consistent narrative of junior doctors being asked to do other people’s jobs such as collecting blood from blood banks, taking samples to laboratories etc. In extreme cases, these doctors are asked to undertake non-clinical tasks by more senior doctors. This is simply unacceptable! I think it is fair to place the blame for this at the hands of consultants who are supposed to be responsible for junior doctors. But this in itself is not a good argument for blocking JOHESU members from becoming consultants in their specialties or for stopping them from heading hospitals if they have the right qualifications. I am concerned that the NMA is losing public sympathy. Increasingly, I hear people describe doctors as selfish and heartless. This is very sad and rather unfortunate. They say doctors do not have any motivation to end the strike because patients are forced to pay exorbitant fees to them in their private hospitals. Those patients who cannot afford these fees are left to suffer or die. If the NMA has made any efforts to change this public perception, then these do not appear to have been effective. *CONCLUSION* The current strategy (i.e., recurrent strikes) is not working. Over the last decade or two, the NMA and non-medical health workers (more recently represented by JOHESU) have taken turns to go on strikes. Perhaps, it is time for both parties to sit together, talk to each other and resolve these contentious issues once and for all. _It’s pointless for the government to enter into agreements with one party knowing fully well that the other party will ask for a reversal of those agreements._ I think the time has come to incorporate Ethics, Teamwork and Communications into undergraduate curricula. The various online comments I have read from medical and non- medical colleagues show that whilst many easily mouth off "team work", a practical understanding of what this means is lacking. Disciplinary procedures are there for a reason. They must be followed when necessary. Although I practise abroad, I should point out that this strike affects me too. My family and friends all live in Nigeria. And who says I am not planning to come home to practise? Lastly, we must all be mindful of our own mortality. Most of us will be ill someday. And when this happens, the only thing that will matter to us is to be looked after by caring and competent health-workers regardless of their individual specialisation. We can create that environment if we forget our individual egos and work as a team. *Ijabla Raymond,* a medical doctor of Nigerian heritage writes from the UK. Contact: _ijabla.raymond@facebook.com._

Gr8amechi:
Do you know their is a branch of medicine that is called clinical pharmacology??
Are you also aware there is a branch of medicine called laboratory medicine which include the three branches of pathology??
Now I agree with you that a doctor can't know it all but the public needs to know that you can have 20 doctors in a hospital and each of them specializes in 20 different fields, so when you hear that a doctor is heading the laboratory try and ask which doctor is that, definitely a surgeon or a physician can't head a laboratory, a microbiology lab is headed by a clinical or consultant medical microbiologist, this person first studied medicine for 6 years then did another 6 years of postgraduate studies on medical microbiology, so ask yourself is it wrong if such a person heads the microbiology lab

Are you also are aware Sir that all these other professionals in the health sector counterpart abroad do postgraduate studies but the selfish and what I do not know how to describe attitude of the conglomerate of Medical Doctors are blocking these opportunity in Nigeria? So that these all other health professionals do not get the opportunity to rise to the qualification to head an hospital? Common! you can only pretend not to be aware of this. I am a Physiotherapist if I have my cash today and I establish a Physiotherapy clinic/ hospital. I can establish a clinic and recruit a Medical Doctor, a nurse, a pharmacist or any other health care professional as far as I can pay him/her and he accepts the terms of agreement. I will run my clinic successfully without inviting a specific personnel somewhere because it is an administrative position, I have Medical Doctors as friends while I was in school and after school and there was no part of their curriculum that they were thought on how to run an hospital. Running an hospital is a inbuilt skill (leadership) that any professional in the health sector can do.

Freddonance:
There are things that should be clarified..
1. No matter how big a complex or a building is, if a doctor is not working there, that place can't ansa HOSPITAL.

2. Laboratory medicine, belongs to the doctor. Doctors who specialized in Lab Medicine are called PATHOLOGISTS. You don't expect a lab scientists to head a pathologist is his own lab. if u do then it's like allowing a stranger who doesn't know the tradition of ur people to lead u... That's an anomaly....

3.The doctor can not head the pharmacy store cos there are people who should head it & they are called PHARMACISTS.
4. In the same vain, an OPTOMETRIST can't head an opthalmologist, if it happens, it is anomalous.

5. A radiologist can't be headed by a radiographer.

All those services are provided in the hospital & the hospital is the home of a doctor. He has got no where to go than stay at home.

I see it strange when people clamor to come to a doctor's home to head him except he so permit but I do not thing he will allow that happen now, maybe later.

These things appear to be birthright by virtue of the training of a doctor.

All these people came & met this hierarchical pattern but want to turn things around because they feel they are populated & doctors are few.... If u know u do not want a doctor to head u in the lab , pls do not study any related course in the university.



PLS IF U THINK U CAN RUN A HOSPITAL WITHOUT A DOCTOR'S CERTIFICATE pls indicate let's reason

Please go check the meaning of hospital and run back here to edit what you posted up there. Hospital is meant for a patient, not for any Personnel. I do not know where you got your earlier assertion from. Just the way an Hospital cannot stand without a Medical Doctor is the same way it can't be a standard hospital without a Pharmacist (who will formulate, dispense or cross check or give prescriptions, or without a Physiotherapists (who diagnose, treats and rehabilitate patients as the case may be or a Med Lab Scientists that gives a Doctor a clearer picture of a differential diagnosis or a Nurse... etc. It is only that Nigeria health sector do not have boundaries in each job jurisdiction or clear cut description (or better still the laws are not bounding) if not a Doctor would not believe he can perform all the roles in the hospital and all other team members are irrelevant and should not be well remunerated. In saner climes, a doctor performing the role of a Nurse or vice versa would be jailed and same to all other professions too.

OgaInnocent:
Your No. 2 sounds funny. Was the hospital shut down when doctors treated striking JOHESU members that had accident?
Smh.

That Afghanistan have doctor on physiotherapy does not make it a working template in Nigeria.

For now, they are still fighting for it, they have not achieved it, so let them stop answering doctors and be proud of their own. It doesn't hurt. The more they acclaim themselves to be doctors, the more they reduce themselves to nothing. What does it take to be proud of what you are for crying out loud?

By the way, what's your profession? Are a JOHESUite?

The Doctors are not on strike so they ought to be at work, whether JOHESU is on strike or not if they are not there then they should be answerable in an IDEAL SETTING. And mind you, I did not only mention Afghan in my reply, US, Europe and the developed countries of the world which we are looking up to their practices have these in their curriculum so why not we? I do not know your qualification but if you are aspiring to be a Prof wouldn't you be happy whenever someone calls you Prof even though you are not yet one. That we are happy to be called Dr means we know our worth and that patients too know our worth.

I am a proud Physiotherapists and also a proud member of JOHESU

OgaInnocent:
In other words, the almagamation is politically motivated to fight doctors?

Politics cannot be ruled out in any commity of persons I hope you know? However the amalgamation is not to fight doctors rather to fight collectively for their collective rights. Stop bringing Doctors into this. You earlier asked how Doctors were brought into this and I explained earlier. You will agree with me that the Government of Nigeria over the years have made or conditioned it's workers to believe strike is the only way to get what you want from government. This is bad but Nigerians have been made to believe sit is the only way. So Sir, JOHESU is not made to fight anybody rather to get their collective right. OK?

DABMarkNig2019:
You know the truth within yourself so there's no point proving anything. we're all humans with conscience but I'm shocked that no member of the NMA dear speak the sacred truth to the body. Was that part of human taken away from you in medical school?
Talking about call allowance, why shouldn't other professionals be paid call allowances or is it not work they're doing? Call allowances can be likened to earned allowances in the university...do you know of anyone within the academic circle who is not paid the money?
To put the record straight, the bone of contention in our health system isn't just about remuneration...it's a little part of it. What health workers are fighting against is injustice and dominance of a set of people who think they own the hospital and our health system. Over the past 3 decades these men has been at leadership position in our health system and the result is what we have today; ranking very low on the global scene in everything concerning health care. This goes further to show that they are not good health managers and should not be allowed to continue if we must get it right. No body should reinforce failure as OBJ will say.
Also, the NMA over the years has turned itself into the regulatory body of other health practioners. A situation where the NMA try to detect to the pharmacist council on how pharmacist should be trained cannot be allowed to stand. Telling the NUC not to approve the D. Pharm degree and qualifications gotten from the west Africa school postgraduate school of pharmacist is nothing but sheer stupidity. Medling in the career progression of other people by the NMA is also fraudulent. Health care is evolving and changing every day and we have no option but to evolve with it. Only a fool get stagnated forever and the NMA shouldn't be one.

Thumbs up bro for hitting the nail on it's head. NMA wants it's members to continue to be trained and increase in skills and knowledge while other professionals just remain stagnant and continue getting promotion at work, and this is to the detriment of the health care services in general because treatment of patients in hospitals is not done solely by Medical Doctors, a patient condition dictates who and who treats and who will be the head of a team. They should just wake up, it's 12:00 am in other countries already.

OgaInnocent:
WHO is an organization. Its like saying, because Buhari is president of Nigeria, as a cattle rearer, therefore anybody can head the hospital. False. Doctors are best persons to manage the hospital.

Can you provide the reasons why they are the best? Please am here. It's just like saying a political scientists is the best fit to govern a state or a country. The hospital do not belong to any health professional (Doctors or JOHESU amalgamates) it belongs to the patient for God sake. If there are no patients there wouldn't be an hospital. Right or wrong?

OgaInnocent:
You have issues with comprehension.work on it.
My point is that, there is profession called JOHESU. Its just different persons coming together.they offer different values and should agitate differently.

There is strength in numbers I believe you know? The Medical Doctors have numerical strength than all other professionals in the health sector, hence the amalgation of these professionals to fight a common fight. Cleared?

Thank God you earlier emphasized you are a biochemist, if you we're to be a medical personnel I wouldn't have replied you so I am doing this to lecture you and all others that might have been misled that:
1. JOHESU made it's plight and grievances known to the govt and not Doctors long before this strike and that it should be known that the govt acceded to it's request only for it not to implement it as it common to Nigerian Govt and that the statement that brought the name Doctors to this exercise was from the Minister of Health (probably being a medical doctor) that what JOHESU wanted was an equal salary to Doctors' just to win public sympathy (he is a politician and so am not surprised to hear that from him) and findings showed that it was NMA who blocked the implementation through one of it's member(The Hon Minister of Health).

2. That generators of health establishment or hospitals are all out off would probably be a directive from the hospital management (which all comprises of Doctors because they know and agree that if JOHESU members are not working, the hospital is automatically shut down and little or none can be done, that is to show you how important JOHESU is to the system.

3. Let me also lecture you that the word Doctor is also used in other profession in the health sector but because of the decay in our health sector we are still operating a crude curriculum. Take for an example in Afghanistan there is Doctor of Physiotherapy, even in Europe and U. S. but because the ministry of health in Nigeria is filled with MEDICAL DOCTORS that would not be allowed to be included in it Nigeria counterpart. Go and do your research about this (I mean Doctors in other health care discipline). Nigeria Society of Physiotherapist (NSP) at least am sure if I still fighting these at the moment. So that a JOHESU member want to be called a Dr or likes to be called one is not over bound.

The answer to your last question can be seen in the other thread you directed me from. I hope have been a able to answer your questions and lecture you and also assert my earlier claim that you are misleading the public?. Please do your research about what you don't know before making claim or assertions. Thanks.

OgaInnocent:
By the way, I am not. Doctor. I studied biochemistry/ Microbiology. However, i am not saying it for everone to believe it, but for the sake of sane minds that may wish to do critical analysis. But I have been an ardent observer of this JOHESU strike with NMA involvements.

First of all I will suggest a solution to the govt.

Who is JOHESU? They are:
Nurses
Medical laboratorians
Physiotherapists
Pharmacist
Cleaners
Security men
Technicians
Mortuary attendants
Morticians
Etc....

Except doctors

...there is no professional called JOHESU.

Advice 1:

JOHESU should be dissolved. And each profession should be reviews and paid commensurately. If possible let their salary be increased no matter how little, but not at par with doctors, because they are doctors. I also urge doctors to accept it, even though Johesu caused the fight by comparing their salary with that of a doctor, as if they are prohibited from becoming doctors.

There are two things that determine what you earn

1. The value you offer
2. The process involved in you becoming trained to be able to offer that value.


I want to tell people that,the people that earn least in any establishment are usually cleaners and messengers. It is not because the VALUE THEY OFFER is not valuable, but because THE PROCESS INVOLVED IN BECOMING A CLEANER costs little or nothing.


Now JOHESU claim they are working as a team with doctors... By the way, why can't they ask for salary increase without mentioning doctors??


I want to tell us that President Buhari and his personal driver and pilot are working as a team. So should buhari receive same pay with his driVer? is Buhari's salary suppose to be mentioned when the salary structure of his driver is being discussed?

The answer is no.and the reason is simple. You cannot discuss what it takes to be a driver When you talking about what it takes to be a president.
So JOHESU should stop bringing doctors into their case, they take their case to the govt (their employers) and settle.

The more they say doctors are maltreating them ,the more they provoke them the more because, No doctor will ever go to the ward and start nursing patients. No doctor is ready to go to lab and be doing widal test or malaria test, no doctor is willing to be a cleaner, a mortician or a driver etc.
Rather ,it is the other way round. Johesu is always comparing abroad, if you go abroad and mistakingly call a nurse a doctor, he or she will correct you and tell you that he is a nurse and not a doctor. That is what we call pride of profession. Try it in Nigeria and call a med lab scientist a doctor, he will first smile,remove his specs, arrange his tie, and then answer you: "/how are you" with a smile of fulfilment.

In Nigeria, as longer you are driving in and out of the hospital everyday, you are doctor. Tell me,if you are a doctor why won't you be proud ? We say doctors are proud ,but the same JOHESU are making them more proud,by trying to be doctors by all means. Doctors have noticed this, and are proud and jealous of their profession. It is natural to be so. Even God told us that he is a jealous God.

Why can't these guys be proud as a nurse, as a pharmacist, as a med lab scientists, as a physiotherapist, as a driver. Etc. Then if you want to answer doctor, you go and buy jamb.



Advice 2:
Government should outsource every profession in health sector.

Those are the two suggestions for the government. If you have a superior argument, bring it on...

sscripturas@gmail.com

First, security men and cleaners are not part of JOHESU, JOHESU is made up of licensed professionals please correct that. And please stop reeling falsehood to the public JOHESU is not asking for same salary as Doctors, both are on different salary scale, so that cannot be possible, what JOHESU is asking for is justification (if you increased the Doctors salary twice why not give us same). Mind you the salary was not equal before that of the Doctors we're increased so there is no point misleading the public that JOHESU want to see at par with the Doctors. The answer to tour second question is that the Doctors salary would always be made as a point if reference because both parties (JOHESU and NMA we're both on same salary scale before) so there is no how you'll talk about the health sector salary structure and you will want to forget the origin. Let me also lecture you or inform you that even the JOHESU amalgamates do not earn equal pay/salaries. So stop misleading the public that JOHESU wants to be at par with Doctors when even it's constituents do not get equal pay, and mind you this issue is not all about salary why are you not talking about the other issues JOHESU is asking for aside salary? There is the management personnel issue, there is the consultancy issue and all others, how is being a Consultant in Physiotherapy going to affect that of Doctor's, or being a Doctor of Pharmacy? wouldn't it help Foster service delivery? because a consultant physiotherapist or a Doctor of Pharmacy would have had more knowledge base, skill and exposure than just a Senior Physiotherapist or a Pharmacist and ditto in the service delivery.

OgaInnocent:
WHO is not a hospital. It is an organization.

Come in here
https://www.nairaland.com/4518317/johesu-vs-nma-suggestion-federal

Hospitals are institution as well as WHO. right or wrong? hospitals consists of several health professionals, as well as WHO.

OgaInnocent:
30years of nursing does not qualify you a Doctor.
The rule was not made because of you, it was there before you went buying your jamb form into nursing science. Stick to the rule or go buy another jamb.

.

Who made the rule and when #and where was it made? You can only deceive yourself not the public. Who oversees WHO today? A Medical Doctor?

dokyOloye:
The Johesu members that were involved in an accident over d weekend in Edo state,what happened?
Were they not treated and stabilised without help from anybody,some discharged sef?

I've worked in private hospitals,and I do every forking thing without help sometimes,like during holidays or few odd times.
Keep lying to yourselves and d gullible public.

And how many are they? Am. in the system and I know how it goes, and I know what am talking about, interns of JOHESU still do their duties. Right or wrong? You can't compare the figures of those that had an accident to the populace. If the doctors are capable then why are there no patients in the wards any longer?

CircleOfWilis:
Are u saying doctors do not take history from the patient? and doctors dont take vital signs?....We need each other I agree with u, but ur explanation is not exactly true......


But why is JOHESU afraid of privatization?

We all know how privatization works in Nigeria let's not deceive ourselves it will not pay both parties, let's start from HO's, now that the system is not even privatized there are lots of them still wandering about the streets and you'll quite agree that in Nigeria private establishments only care about profit maximization. A lot of your MOs, SMOs and Consultants would not get job because the order of the day would be less staff, more productivity and profit and the masses would pay more and get less. I just laugh whenever I hear see the assertion you made up there. Both parties would suffer, there won't be anything like NMA strike or JOHESU strike, you won't even dare it. because of you do, and you are sacked, there will be thousands hand out there to take your job from you. Take the OLD NEPA for example, before it was privatized, there use to be NEPA strike, but since it has been privatized do you hear if such anymore? Or probably you think if the system is privatized, Doctors will take over the duties of all other health professionals who have there professional bodies affiliated worldwide? Laughs...

olalekanadewum:
NMA is not a registered union they are profession body like ICAN or ANAN while JOHESU is a registered trade union under Nigerian law. It is because Nigeria law is not effective that is why an illegal NMA will be dictating to FG because they produce the minister of state for health, minister of health, minister of labour and the HODs in the ministry of health.
The JOHESU went to court on the same issue and they won but they refuse to implement the judgment because the doctors are the one there

.

Thank you my brother, each time NMA strikes or ask for one thing or the other does anybody hear/sees JOHESU or any other unions block them or hinder them? NO, so why now? The reason is not far fetched, NMA does not want other professions in the health sector to grow and that is the reason for the rot we have today in our hospitals. Come to think of it the WHO which is the world health governing body is not headed by a Medical Doctor. So why is the health system in NIGERIA different?

dokyOloye:
If a patient does not get better,d doctor takes d blame,nor forking nurse,no forking lab man,no pharmacist.
They will all claim they all carried out d doctor's instructions.
Yet they want to earn like doctors and head d doctor.
Nigeria is a very strange place.

In a sane clime does a LICENSED PROFESSIONAL even have to take an instruction from a Medical Doctor before he discharges his/her duties? If yes then why his he/she a PROFESSIONAL, you guys keep shouting international best practices but never follow it's tenets to detail.

dokyOloye:
Who told you that?
You mean a doctor can't dress the bed or administer drugs?
Abi na to check vital signs?

So why aren't the Doctors doing that now. Go to most hospitals now and you'll see them either sitting or gisting, some will even tell you the hospital staffs are on strike. That you even feel the role of Nurses is just to check vital signs speaks volume of why we are in this present situation, because I feel you were taught some nursing processes in your Med school.