₦airaland Forum

Trizyd:
And your comment on the pictures and maps and google screenshots is?📢

Are you actually asking me to repeat my comments which you can already access on this topic ?

I wrote

Stoplying:
1) No Benin "oral tradition" told Edo people that they learnt how to cast from Ife. So that part of the documentary is just a lie. I guess the narrators got duped by some guys in Ife and didn't even care to actually ask the palace of Benin.
2) the documentary also makes a lot of unsubstantiated claims such as "it is thought to be 800 years old", that is not exactly a scientific statement, is it ?
3) the narrators were just trying to generate interests for the Ife head, that is why they linked it to Benin and linked it to Benin bronzes. In order to create excitement for the Ife head, you have to claim it predates Benin bronzes and those who made it thought Benin how to make Bronzes.
4) the narrators did a very poor historical work, they basically did zero research and just blabbed out Yoruba folkloric fairytales about Benin in order to make Ife head look interesting. Benin bronzes don't need to be attached to anything other than Benin to be interesting, but Ife head needs to be attached to Benin bronzes or else nobody cares about Ife head 😅
5) I bet you guys thought we would fall for this scam of a video because the narrators are white ...try again later 😂
6) white crooks in the art industry are so annoying

7) I am yet to see a Yoruba attempt legitimately to prove his Ife claims with logic and historical rigor, it is always about: "this white man says it" or "this newspaper says it" or "oral tradition"... Come on, we are more educated than this, bring out eyewitness written docs like everybody else has to.

8. I didn't watch beyond time stamp 4:32 because it had become obvious by then that the documentary is not a serious work with regards to history or truth, but just a video trying to create excitement for the Ife head by linking it to Benin bronzes and by claiming without any proof that the bronze is 800 years old "thought to be 800 years old" and that Benin learnt iron casting from Ife, no proof provided, instead the narrator claims my oral tradition says so, not only do I disagree, but I also understand that the use of "oral tradition" is a way to make an unsubstantiated claim and look credible without ever having to prove it.

You replied

Trizyd:
Lol, 🤣🤣🤣 you dismissed videos and somr arguments here and your reason was that they were from white people.

That wasn't my reason, are you blind or just stupid?

DesChyko:
You're not really being realistic. Are you also mindful that this information of yours I'm responding to is 'written on the web'?

He actually is completely right, the web is 99/100 garbage, you need to know what you are looking for in order to filter through. When researching African history, most people just read some fairytales online and confuse it with history. You need to know how to research history.
Look for eyewitness written docs.
You would need to go to the right libraries for that.

Richkid2021:
Yoruba does not have your time Benin cos looking at the YouTube videos shows that the Yoruba are superior to the Benin in terms of technology cos technology was brought by Yoruba to Benin how can someone who was born some years ago be telling the story of an ancient tribe who has be vindicated by this works as a great tribe all the states in Yoruba are bigger than your so call Benin state in the late 80s my great grandmother use to tells us Yoruba was the official language in the Benin palace .
If you line stay on your lane Yoruba doesn't care about you we are a moving train we don't wait for who doesn't value us. If you look at the map very well how is it possible for someone u claim is a prince who ran way would travel that vast kilometres to ife how sane is that to become a king in ile ife can you try it before your story can be admitted as true .
Look at the bridge you will cross
The thick forest you will have to surmount
Look at wild animals you will encounter all this are reasons why your so called prince can't travel to ile ife .

With all this your ranting, you still don't understand that your people are obsessed about my people ?
Even your great grand mother was obsessed about us and had to tell you a fake story talking about us!
Why are you guys so obsessed about us ?

I will never understand Yoruba obsession about my people. They always claim us eventhough we say no, they don't know the first thing about us, they don't even know their own history, they make it their mission to always misspell our name.
In order to escape their slave ancestry they made a fake past for themselves with some flying super-oduduwa and included us in their story because they need something authentic to stand on.

Ttalk:
Try harder, maybe you can convince IPOB and some LP sore losers, you are not making sense at all.

Was it only Bini artworks that we're stolen that make you feel you can rewrite history. Yes, Bini is known for his artwork as also many other African ancient cities, apart from that tell me any other thing Bini are known for pre-European invasion, dont just start what you can't finish, Bini are great people, no need to hurt my small finger as it is part of my body.

You don't even know what Benin stands for, you don't know Benin at all but like the usual Yoruba, you believe you know better than actual Edo people.
For your information, Benin city is only the capital of Benin kingdom ! You guys in Ife don't know the first thing about us, but your fantasy is to always claim us...
And it is Benin ! Not Bini !
Look, you lack knowledge about history, I would advise you to read what I already wrote on this topic, because I do not have time to repeat my self. Long story short: Yoruba are mostly slave descendants.

Ttalk:
Your argument is childish and deserves no response. No Yoruba is here to prove anything to you. We know our history and culture, we are a great people in Africa and South America, we have fought many wars and built kingdoms and cities of which Bini is just a sub-kingdom of the great Yoruba people, the Egbas, Ijebus Aworis have more settlements area than your over-bloated Bini, we are not I a measuring contest with you, let your Oba deny his yorubaness I will listen to you

This is the thing with you guys, you are not reasonable.
You are there basically putting an identity upon us by claiming us as "Yoruba" and at the same time you are diminishing us as "overbloated". You are not being coherent.
We are a "sub-kingdom" yet museums in Europe and America are filled with our artefacts and the body of water is named after us, and Benin Republic carries our name...and we fought the British, our king was exiled...was all that as a sub-kingdom ?
If we didn't have sovereignty, then why were the British fighting us ? Why was our kingdom called a kingdom and why was our king called a king ?
You claim to know your history, as if it is natural for anybody to know his history ? Were you born 1000 years ago !
History is researched and discovered, it is not transmitted through DNA!
You know nothing about history.
And the Oba of Benin through the palace has already stated that he is not yoruba!
Logic doesn't work with you guys... I'm tired !

Just tell me about how the Yoruba fought against the British ! Show me where the Oni of Ife was exiled to, show me where the Alafin was exiled to.
You have no logic. Precolonial maps of Benin kingdom below.

NaMe4:
'Prospered from 1200 to 1800' does NOT mean the kingdom started existing in 1200!

This 'prosperity' had to do with expansion, commercial activities with increased trading with transatlantic merchants and high activity of slave trading, which abolishment began in the 1800s; the period when the British colonialists arrived.

Similar activities also occurred in the Ife and Oyo empires within this period. These empires, just as the Benin empire, existed centuries before this period you mentioned.

Finally, these arguments are baseless because historical facts have shown a relationship between the 'Yorubas' and the 'Edos'; artifacts and other forms of documented history reveal this. And I've not come across any Edo person bothering him/herself about such issues/topics which are repeatedly opened on Nairaland in order to cause unnecessary arguments.

What Edo needs to focus on today is how to foster development across the State socially, politically and economically in order to be a people to reckon with.

1) when was Ife an empire ?
2) oyo was a small kingdom
3) nobody noticed oyo or Ife as being empires!
4) the body of water is called Bight of Benin for a reason
5) Oyo doesn't even have artefacts
6) which "historical facts" have shown a relationship between the "yorubas and the Edits" ?
7) "artefacts" show a link between Yoruba and Edos ? Are you kidding me ?

Stoplying:
1) Witnesses to the burial of the Oba of Benin in the precolonial era have had their testimony recorded on paper in the precolonial era and it was recorded that it took place around the palace of the Oba, the executions of the wives and ministers of the Oba were even talked about. I don't want to add too much details.
2) your "orun oba ado" was built with European cement technology
3) European alphabets are written all around your "orun Oba ado"
4) the fresh painting of a Benin bronze is upon your "orun oba ado"
5) the only place outside of Benin city in which the Oba of Benin is recorded to have been buried is Calabar.

So it is clear that "orun oba ado" is a fake. It is also clear that your "orun oba ado" was created after colonisation and probably quite recently.
Ife is built with fake stories, nobody ever migrated from Ife, I believe the settlement of Ife is more recent than that of Abeokuta which was created in 1832.

Why are Yoruba always telling lies and always trying to dupe other people ?

Yoruba mostly descend from freed slaves whom the European powers dumped on our shores. Those slaves came into our shores with the ability to read and write and a formal education which the locals (our ancestors) didn't have.
So for a period of time, the yorubas (slave descendants) were the most educated and they duped the locals (at a regular basis) to survive. That dupery turned into a tradition.
Today that tradition is still alive amongst Yoruba, it gave birth to world renown 419.
But the problem today is that everybody has caught up with Yoruba in terms of education, so now we all see you for what you are: a lying 419 culture.

So you should know that telling lies is actually the biggest part of Yoruba culture. Being a good liar is very respectable in Yoruba culture, and it is even celibrated.

Although there are some people whom are from Benin empire but currently identify as Yoruba for the sake of politics: the people of Ondo state and ekiti state are examples.

So Ife didn't teach nada, in fact Ife was a small settlement until 1912 whereas Benin was already an empire in the 1400's. Benin bronzes were just an extension of Benin rich culture and a creation of that rich and advanced culture. Linking Ife head to Benin bronzes is a plot meant to give value to ife head. I rest my case.

This was done in precolonial Benin under a contract for some Europeans

Benin non metallic artefact

All this to say that Benin bronzes were not a foreign culture to Benin. Benin was a civilised country with its own civilisation and that civilisation produced the bronzes.
Ife on the other hand was a small settlement until 1912.

Benin

Benin architecture

The narrator ls of that video might as well tell us if it is Ife which taught Benin how to carve wood and ivory and also how to build houses, because all these were part of Benin, and to the best of my knowledge, ife didn't have these.
Below is a picture of the Oni of Ife, look at the architecture of his palace behind him, is that comparable to the architecture of Benin?

Ajagunakin:
We can’t allow miscreants who have been slaves historically to every tribe in the south to re-write history. This is the only reason why we engage, to let them know history is written in stone and can’t be changed. We have the records and we know the truth. Whether you accept the truth or not is up to you. But David Attenborough has it all on tape and we have the link.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa0st_aMjmA

Watch part 1 & 2 of this and educate yourself.

1) No Benin "oral tradition" told Edo people that they learnt how to cast from Ife. So that part of the documentary is just a lie. I guess the narrators got duped by some guys in Ife and didn't even care to actually ask the palace of Benin.
2) the documentary also makes a lot of unsubstantiated claims such as "it is thought to be 800 years old", that is not exactly a scientific statement, is it ?
3) the narrators were just trying to generate interests for the Ife head, that is why they linked it to Benin and linked it to Benin bronzes. In order to create excitement for the Ife head, you have to claim it predates Benin bronzes and those who made it thought Benin how to make Bronzes.
4) the narrators did a very poor historical work, they basically did zero research and just blabbed out Yoruba folkloric fairytales about Benin in order to make Ife head look interesting. Benin bronzes don't need to be attached to anything other than Benin to be interesting, but Ife head needs to be attached to Benin bronzes or else nobody cares about Ife head 😅
5) I bet you guys thought we would fall for this scam of a video because the narrators are white ...try again later 😂
6) white crooks in the art industry are so annoying

7) I am yet to see a Yoruba attempt legitimately to prove his Ife claims with logic and historical rigor, it is always about: "this white man says it" or "this newspaper says it" or "oral tradition"... Come on, we are more educated than this, bring out eyewitness written docs like everybody else has to.

8. I didn't watch beyond time stamp 4:32 because it had become obvious by then that the documentary is not a serious work with regards to history or truth, but just a video trying to create excitement for the Ife head by linking it to Benin bronzes and by claiming without any proof that the bronze is 800 years old "thought to be 800 years old" and that Benin learnt iron casting from Ife, no proof provided, instead the narrator claims my oral tradition says so, not only do I disagree, but I also understand that the use of "oral tradition" is a way to make an unsubstantiated claim and look credible without ever having to prove it.

If any kingdom in West Africa was dated 500 BC then there would be thousands of archeologists in that kingdom digging everyday like in Egypt.

Odogwuzack:
You should have controlled your own feelings when you left the history which is the bone of contention and started insulting a whole tribe.

I'm sure your negative energy is still tied to your recent election defeat.

Please stop speaking gibberish.
If you disagree with a thing which I said, then point it out to me and give your arguments, I will give you my own.
If your mirror says you are urgly, don't curse your mirror, just accept it. Fact is fact.

Odogwuzack:
Ife is the oldest Yoruba city. So if Bini and Oyo empire started existing around 1400 years ago (according to the OP), it only make sense to agree that they both migrated from Ife.

I don't know if you are aware but the guardian newspaper is not a historical document. You basically quoted unsubstantiated claims from the guardian newspaper.
The history of our region of west Africa started in the 15th century.
Once again, nobody migrated from Ife, Ife was a small settlement in 1912 when the British started urbanising it.
If any kingdom in West Africa was dated 500 BC then there would be thousands of archeologists in that kingdom digging everyday like in Egypt.

I added a snapshot of your comment below.

Odogwuzack:
You are not here for conversation but for insults on the Yorubas. You are probably not even a Bini person but just trying to cause fight between the two tribes.

Again, you need to control your feelings. You are not thinking straight.

Odogwuzack:
Ife is the oldest Yoruba city.

Where is proof ?
For your info:

Stoplying:
Yes, Benin kingdom was recorded by eyewitnesses right from the 1400's contrary to Ife. The earliest map of Ife which I have seen is from the 19th century.
And Ife was a small settlement until the British started urbanising it in 1912.
Whereas Benin city was burnt to the ground by the British in 1897, Ife was never burnt down, yet it was being urbanised by the British in 1912.

Nobody is saying that Benin Kingdom was created in the 1400's, rather we are saying that Europeans visited the region in the 1400's and they didn't see anything called ife in the region, rather they saw Benin.

Odogwuzack:
Lol Thank you.

I'm surprised the OP was talking about Oyo instead of Ife.

The question is, is Bininkingdom older than Ife kingdom?

Yes, Benin kingdom was recorded by eyewitnesses right from the 1400's contrary to Ife. The earliest map of Ife which I have seen is from the 19th century.
And Ife was a small settlement until the British started urbanising it in 1912.
Whereas Benin city was burnt to the ground by the British in 1897, Ife was never burnt down, yet it was being urbanised by the British in 1912.

Kapeter:
And mind you op, it was Ife and not Oyo. Everything started from Ife.

Oyo is actually older than Ife. Also the name Yoruba is the former name of Oyo although it was written yarri.ba.

Ife is not what you guys keep claiming it is ! All those stories a fake.

Gabriel004:
Mumu, that is what you are.

A random person who does not know his left from right talk rubbish and you are swallowing it.

Go home and ask your father or your current oba of benin that who was the first ever oba of benin and where was he from.

Down here is where the head of your benin King being buried in Ife.

It is called Orun oba Ado.

We have the history

1) Witnesses to the burial of the Oba of Benin in the precolonial era have had their testimony recorded on paper in the precolonial era and it was recorded that it took place around the palace of the Oba, the executions of the wives and ministers of the Oba were even talked about. I don't want to add too much details.
2) your "orun oba ado" was built with European cement technology
3) European alphabets are written all around your "orun Oba ado"
4) the fresh painting of a Benin bronze is upon your "orun oba ado"
5) the only place outside of Benin city in which the Oba of Benin is recorded to have been buried is Calabar.

So it is clear that "orun oba ado" is a fake. It is also clear that your "orun oba ado" was created after colonisation and probably quite recently.
Ife is built with fake stories, nobody ever migrated from Ife, I believe the settlement of Ife is more recent than that of Abeokuta which was created in 1832.

Why are Yoruba always telling lies and always trying to dupe other people ?

Yoruba mostly descend from freed slaves whom the European powers dumped on our shores. Those slaves came into our shores with the ability to read and write and a formal education which the locals (our ancestors) didn't have.
So for a period of time, the yorubas (slave descendants) were the most educated and they duped the locals (at a regular basis) to survive. That dupery turned into a tradition.
Today that tradition is still alive amongst Yoruba, it gave birth to world renown 419.
But the problem today is that everybody has caught up with Yoruba in terms of education, so now we all see you for what you are: a lying 419 culture.

So you should know that telling lies is actually the biggest part of Yoruba culture. Being a good liar is very respectable in Yoruba culture, and it is even celibrated.

Depriest2020:
Please what tribe are you? Cause south south is not a tribe, so we can begin the conversation there.

If you could just read:

Stoplying:
Technically there is no tribe called Igbo, the British just added small unrelated cannibal tribes together in order to better rule over them and they used a local word for cannibal to designate them: igbo. Whereas much of the south-south was part of the same Precolonial country called Benin. So technically the south-south is much closer to an actual ethnicity than Igbo or yoruba are. Indeed the bulk of the south-south has a common precolonial origin and a common precolonial leader (the Oba), that is what defines ethnicity.
Also, we (south-south) are not a tribe, we are a people, savages and primitives like the cannibals might call themselves a tribe, we are not savages, we are a people.

Also, it is only in Africa that grown men proudly call themselves a tribe. Notice that the British who created Igbo and dashed out "tribe" nominations do not refer to themselves nor to other whites as "tribes". What type of people have such a low self-esteem that they keep carrying an insult upon themselves and they are proud of it. Imagine someone called you idiot in school and then you chose to change your name and have people refer to you as idiot from there on...
The slaves of the British can keep calling themselves "tribe", on the other hand, we are a people !

Depriest2020:
The Name South South & the 6 regions we have today was introduced by Dr. Alex Ekwueme at the 1994 constitution conference it was opposed by the North, Alhaji Atiku Abubakar accused Ekwueme of coming to the conference with division agenda, they tried to shut him down, Ojukwu stood by Ekwueme told him not to be scared to push the agenda, that it was a good cause to give the minorities a voice, the chairman of the conference called for a recess so as to calm nerves.

Obasanjo adopted the use of it when he became president in 1999.

The south east have treated the south south as an elder brother would treat a junior brother. They have taken a lot of heat & bullet for them. I have never heard nor read anywhere where the south south showed appreciation to the south east for this singular act & the heat they took for them in 1994 & 2015. All they get is insult from Thier younger Brother.

In your head you are our big brother, and you don't understand how that is disrespectful !?
Historically we are older than you (Precolonial origine).
And look, if you want a friend, then you need to show respect, otherwise there is no friendship.
Never call us your junior brother again !
Also, kindly shove your unsubstantiated anecdote.

FreedomfromtheT:
There is no tribe called South South.
The Southsouth geopolitical zone comprises of a lot of tribes or ethnic groups which include the Ijaws, Kalabaris, Ibibios, Annangs, Efiks, Urhobos, Isokos, Ishekiris, Ogonis, Yalas, Ogojas and Igbos.

Technically there is no tribe called Igbo, the British just added small unrelated cannibal tribes together in order to better rule over them and they used a local word for cannibal to designate them: igbo. Whereas much of the south-south was part of the same Precolonial country called Benin. So technically the south-south is much closer to an actual ethnicity than Igbo or yoruba are. Indeed the bulk of the south-south has a common precolonial origin and a common precolonial leader (the Oba), that is what defines ethnicity.
Also, we (south-south) are not a tribe, we are a people, savages and primitives like the cannibals might call themselves a tribe, we are not savages, we are a people.

When the British were fighting the colonial wars in our region, they did not fight Yoruba, they did not fight Igbo, there were no such countries, they fought Benin !
The British created Igbo by adding many small tribes together in order to better rule over them, the yorubas were politically created as an amalgamation of several peoples but mostly of local slaves (like the egbas) and foreign slaves like the Brazilians.

DatNiggaDaz:
Igbo dis Igbo dat

Perhaps you stop claiming other people and their land...
Perhaps you stop trying to force an identity upon others...
Same applies to Yoruba.

Yoruba= slave
Igbo= cannibal

Most Nigerians know very little about history.
Intellectually you guys are in the gutters.

richmond500:
Today I saw a thread that says there is nothing like SS and the OP was busy insulting anyone who have different opinion.
This rubbish by-force colonization doesnt benefit any of the region.
What we have with the igbos is just common boundary with your states, except that, we are different from any of the big three tribes.
It's just like Edo and some part of Delta sharing border with Ondo but they are not Yorubas.

During the Edo election, the Edo people made it clear to the Yorubas that "Edo no be Lagos". The Yorubas got the message, I did not see any Yoruba that insulted Edo people, no Yoruba man left his state and asked for referendum in Edo land, today the bromance between Edo and Yoruba is still very strong.
But other parts of SS are not allowed to have the luxury of Independence because they share border with Igbo states, if we tell them we love the fact that we are SS, we get insulted for just loving ourselves, even their fellow igbos get insulted for that, we are not allowed to be unique as a region and this is weakening the strong r/ship between the both regions.
A former Nigerian player from Delta was insulted the other day because he said he is not igbo, wtf?

Pls we do not hate any tribe, we just don't want anyone to keep saying we must be part of the big three, respect us and respect our values biko

Historically Ondo-state and Lagos and Delta-state and Edo-state and Rivers... are part of Benin empire therefor they are Edo.