₦airaland Forum

I would like to add that Ogané was actually a mythical kingdom led by prester john (a mythical figure), the whole thing was made up by crusaders in search of a mythical powerful christian king.

They looked for ogané in several regions of the world.

samuk:
I repeat Oduduwa was simply a mythical figure , this is the reason if you asked five people, 2 Edo and 3 Yoruba, the origin of Oduduwa, you are likely to get the following replies:

1. He was from Saudi Arabia
2. He was from Egypt
3. He was originally from Ife
4. He was from Benin
5. He is a myth

Anybody that doubt me should carry out a Google search on the origin of Oduduwa.

Ife wasn't Organe

The Ogane that was referred to by the Portuguese in the 15th century was described to be in a location east of Benin, Ife is west, the Ogane was said to be a distance of about 900 miles, Ife is about 174 miles from Benin, Organe was said to have a travelling time from Benin of 20 moons (20 months), Benin to Ife couldn't possibly have been travelled in 20 months because by 1603, 2 messages were sent from Lagos garrison to Benin daily and Lagos is further away from Benin in distance compared to Ife.

The reason no one have been able to locate this Organe written about in the 15th century Benin history is because it was argued that it probably didn't exist.

There is absolutely nothing in name Of Ogane, distance, direction of travel and location from Benin city that slightly resembles Ife. Yoruba always want to equate Organe to Ife because of their desperation to link Ife to Benin by all means.

If Benin really have relationship with Ife between 1170 to 1897, a period of 800 years of which over 400 years of it was documented by eyewitnesses on the Benin side and at least 70 years of the 800 years documented on the Yoruba side stating from 1824, why was Ife, Oranmiyan and Oduduwa not mentioned once in either the 400 years Benin documented eyewitness historical accounts or Yoruba 70 years eyewitness historical accounts.

One of the few places in Yoruba land that was never mentioned in Benin history until after the fall of Benin in 1897 is Ife. Most towns and rulers in eastern Yoruba, the Alaafin and Lagos were all mentioned but not Ife, Oranmiyan and Oduduwa.

How could Benin have had interactions with Ife in the way the Yoruba want everyone believe and yet not a single mentioned in the historical books.

Benin was a very active kingdom both in war and traditions, if there was an interaction with Ife, it would have be mentioned severally throughout the periods of written records starting from late 1400s to late 1890s, but nothing was said about Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan until after the fall of Benin in 1897.

No aspects of Benin lives was left undocumented by early Europeans, the number of roads in the city, the type of food, trade, traditional institutions, religion, rituals, physical descriptions of the people, architecture, government, area of influence, military installations or garrisons throughout the empire, military strength, internal civil wars, area conquered, etc. In the over 400 years of Benin written history, there is not a single mention of Ife, Oduduwa and Oranmiyan the supposed founders of the kingdom.

Yet TAO11 wants everyone to believe Organe was Ife. Even if she is right how come Organe was only mentioned once in late 15th century? This is because Organe wasn't Ife.

Yoruba are not the only people that claim to have founded the Benin kingdom, several other tribes have made several similar claims ranging from being the aboriginal inhabitants of the kingdom to even laying claim to the Oba himself just the way the Yoruba have been doing since the fall of Benin kingdom.

Incase the Yoruba don't know, the Igbos also have similar claims of theirs. Some Igbos believe the Oba of Benin was originally from Nri.

The Benin are so sure and confident with themselves that, we will not feel less of ourselves if it turns out the Oba wasn't originally from Benin. Most of us wouldn't care about the origin of the Oba in as far it can be proven with historical evidence.

The problem with the Yoruba claim is lack of evidence to back up the claims.

Like I mentioned to TAO11 before and I will repeat again, just show us evidence of Benin/Ife relationship as late as 1890, just seven years before the British invasion of Benin. Let's even forget the period 1400s, 1500s, 1600s, 1700s, 1800 - 1890. This is a long period of time. Just give me something in 1890 that suggests Benin/Ife relationship.

There is nothing unique about Yoruba fabricated Benin/Ife relationship claims, rather it's the uniqueness of Benin in world history that is prompting all these claims.

We can not pretend to know it all, any tribes that lay claim to Benin must provide historically backed evidence to be taken seriously.

People may be tempted to laugh off the Igbo claim, but don't forget this is how the Yoruba claim began and the similarities between both claims are clear enough.

One can't discount future intellectual fight between Yoruba and Igbo on the historical ownership of Benin. As times goes by, Benin history ages like old wine in a bottle that everybody will want to own. This is more so because of the nearly 500 years documented historical gap between Benin and the other two tribes of Yoruba and Igbo.

Below is a similar Igbo claim.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4xXMdK8HYQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytmPqtA65YY

samuk:
After accusing me of inserting my opinions and assumptions. You now left the historical narrative that was mostly qouted verbatim and went on a long epistle of your own opinions and assumptions, something you criticised me of doing.

The historical narratives I am presenting are for those that can make use of their thinking capabilities, not for you. I would have been very surprised if you have jumped this one without commenting.

According to you:

1. Benin was peacefully invited to Lagos, infact Benin begged for a small piece of land, waving white flags whilst begging. But you forget that they went there with a barracks load of soldiers.

2. The Alaafin also peacefully invited Benin to come and put down the rebels that was threatening his domain.

3. The Ikere people peacefully summoned Benin to mediate in a dispute. You also forget Benin went there with such military force that the demography of areas changed forever. Traditional rulers lost their heads.

You would have liked everyone to believe that Benin never crossed Ore town if not for the overwhelming evidences.

Don't mind the troll, lying and trolling are his/her profession.
Just keep posting claims backed by eyewitness accounts alongside the eyewitness accounts.
Providing proof is the maximum which a human being can do. Ignore the rest.

Rule 1: I won't talk to stalkers
Rule 2: I won't talk to trolls
Rule 3: I won't talk to chronic liars
Rule 4: I won't talk to uneducated yoruba, I will only talk to a yoruba at the same level as me: masters degree and above.

I do not pretend to be educated, I have wasted enough time with trolls pretending to be educated while being incredibly ignorant.
The sad thing is that the tribesmen of the trolls which I describe are the ones whom are suffering from the brainwashing being dashed out by their "hero". I can't make anybody see reality, I can only keep being logical and truthful.

Eyewitness writen precolonial text stating clearly that Lagos belongs to Benin:

"Captain Horseley called it Eco, and that is how the yebous refer to it; but it is not their land: it belongs to Benin, whom have named it Korame, you can recognise the Curamo from older Portuguese reports, just like Eko represents the Ichoo from Holland Hydrographs. Long ago Korame was linked to its metropolis by a very narrow piece of land contained between the great Laguna and the sea; but it has been a while since the Yebous have seazed that very narrow piece of land of which the eastern extremity was invaded by ouyo pirates; and Karamé remained isolated at the extremity of the great Laguna, while it continues to receive from Benin it's governor or political chief."

https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k5806879x.r=Y%C3%A9bou?rk=21459;2

Precolonial map of the region showing that Lagos (in its currents form) and its environs were part of Benin (see below)
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8595583b.r=Benin?rk=150215;2


Conclusion: Lagos and its environs were part of Benin.

I am not interested in debating things which have already been proven. Also I am not interested in talking to people whom have been harrassing me. (I also want to add that I am actually the only person whom has commented here who actually speaks french and that I am the person who posted the french caption and the book from which it is to nairaland. Some delusional people who don't speak a word of frecnh were trying to "debate" me on the translation of the text several months ago. Fools can only fool other fools.)

gregyboy:
Always about their poultry population thank God democracy favours over population thats were you lots pride rest on

As soon Nigeria is corruption free and we are practicing true democracy you lot population wilk be useless


Coward of a tribe

Even the numbers they give are always gross exagerations like when the ooni of ife claimed there were 80 million yoruba in brazil. Funny enough, when the british conducted a survey (the only corruption free surveys nigeria ever had) the population of the midwestern region outnumbered the yoruba.

gregyboy:
Fuckoff

Don't descend to their level, you are making them happy, because an emotional response is what trolls are trolling for.

Nisiw365:
Sifia pains
Whether you like it or not, you can't change history.
Ibadan raided Benin for slaves

Guys stop talking to this simpleton, this guy doesn't even seem to know that ibadan was just a village lead by a baale.

Let me correct my earlier statement, it seems that it was in the 1930's not the 1950's that the title olubadan was created.

rhektor:
Was it called korame or Ekonunuame you guys better choose one, na so una twist Odùduwà to Izoduwa, Ekaladerhan Izoduwa etc why do you guys like to jump from one lie to another?
Cc TAO11

If your level of education is beneath masters degree then please don't talk to me, know your place. Internet doesn't make us equals. I have donated enough of my time to uneducated tribal biggots like yourself already.

gregyboy:
Ibadan raided the fringe of edo state for slaves
And the finge of edo is a mixture of yoruba, Igala, edo,

Akoko edo are runner way yoruba people from ondo so basically ibadan raided their own yoruba people.....


Are you saying edo are from ile ife.. Lol


Ile ife that was sacked by several Yorubas during the yoruba Civil War....,

Ile ife came into limelight by awolowo the story of ile-ife as d mother of all yoruba people was falsely promoted by awolowo and Samuel Johnson there is no truth in it


Oduduwa was the invention by Samuel johsin to unite yoruba into one ancestory Oduduwa is a work of friction by no other than sam j

Actually ibadan was a village and its ruler who started calling himself olubadan in the 1950's used to be called baale until that period.
Needless to say, any discussion of ibadan military might is mere fiction.

Eriokanmi:
Who are the US? Where is your proof I'm not from Edo... and that I only served here?

1) your ethnicity doesn't actually matter, backing what you say with proof does matter.

2) you are the one who makes anecdotal claims in order to make your main claims look more credible: " i did my nysc in Edo-State" then later "I am Edo/yoruba". Soon you will claim to be a leprechaun or an igbo/yoruba or perhaps a hausa/igbo...

3) you and your yoruba people should leave us Edo alone, we are not yoruba, we are Edo. If you love our culture so much then just say so, but stop trying to distort our identity. I love Japanese and Ethiopian cultures, yet you will never see me trying to distort their identity to claim they migrated from Benin city.

4) You actually know very little about Benin history.

This is how the mind of a lazy liar works:

Eriokanmi:
Also akoko edo people are mostly yorubas. l served there in my nysc days so I know this for a fact.

Eriokanmi:
I'm Edo/Yoruba and I do know better. Check my profile.

First you claimed my people Akoko-Edo were yoruba and to "prove it" you then claimed to have done your nyse in the region. Then when me, an actual Edo, came to cirrect you and your fellow yoruba dreamers, you started claiming to be Edo in order to "prove" your new claims. Also, there is no such thing as Edo/yoruba, this only shows you have probably never been to the southsouth.
You are just one of those yoruba who believe they emulate igbo land-grabbing tactics and turn the fabrication "Delta-igbo" into "Edo-yoruba".
Look, just leave us alone. We have already voted to not be with you guys. Leave our artefacts alone as well. Focus on your own people, especially the ones in illorin.

Eriokanmi:
The slave traders saw them centuries ago and carted all of them away.

Actually Benin bronze was taken by the British in 1897 after Benin and britain fought each other in a war and britain won.
You don't even know what you are talking about. I just keep wondering why every ignoramus just believes himself to be a professor in nairaland ?

Nisiw365:
you who showed me fake map from fake website isn't a chronic liar

You live in an alternate reality. Your delusion is too strong.

I already told you, I am not going to answer any further illogical question. Proving a claim is enough to end the discussion, no need to dive into the illogical narratives and flawd logics of the interlocutor.

Conclusion : you are not intellectually equipped to discuss history.

Eriokanmi:
I don't even have the strength to read all you've posted. I'm Edo/Yoruba and I do know better. Check my profile. We are from yoruba ancestry and anybody who tells you a different story is merely giving you a warped version. Shebi you saw all the artefacts which Germans are about returning to us, look at their heads and making, then compare them with Oduduwa's head or statue. Those artefacts are nearly 1000 years old. The slave traders saw them centuries ago and carted all of them away. Believe this or not, all akoko edos, had their roots traceable to bini and binis migrated from yorubaland. Take care

Yet an other identity thief.
For your information, oduduwa is a fictional character invented by awolowo.
Once again:

Stoplying:
How I wish you yoruba would stop obsessing about us Edos. Look, we are not yoruba and any of us who happens to speak yoruba learnt it for his or her own convenience.
An equal number of us also speak igbo and haussa for the same reason.
Why can't you guys just leave us alone, what is it with you ?

Untill the 19th century there was no such thing as yoruba and when the term was born, it only meant people from oyo kingdom.

Awolowo and his political group among others created what you guys now call yoruba today. And us Edo are not part of it. Nor are our Itsikiri brothers. We all voted to not be part of the yoruba dominated western region.

The yoruba of today is either a former dahomian, a slave returnee or an oyo, or some other indigenous tribesman who accepted the yoruba tag. We are not yoruba, we are Edo, that is our ethnicity and it predates yours.

Needless to say, Akoko-Edo are Edo (and not yoruba) like their name suggests.

Nisiw365:
PS: just search Ta011 on nairaland here. Everything you need to know about Lagos, maps, pictures, ebooks will be seen because we have talked about this topic over and over again

One thing which is very funny with you yoruba is that when you have decided to worship a person, you automatically expect anybody whom you are talking to to engage in that worship as well.

Anyways, you were brainwashed and like most brainwashed people, you confuse your brainwashing with education. Proof has been provided right here to show you Lagos was part of Benin. It might take some mental strength for you to beat your brainwashing and get back to reality.

Nisiw365:
Stop ranting like a lunatic.
If you want stories, maps, pictures
Kindly search the culture section of nairaland
You can also check this moniker
Ta011
There are enough pictures and maps for you
Check it up and educate yourself

The damage which that person whom you are quoting has done to the reasoning faculties of the likes of you is just pitiful.
In case you still don't get it, tao11 is a chronic liar peddling made up contraptions.

I have given you actual proof before your very eyes, yet you refuse to see and rather deflect to praising the very person who indoctrinated you.

Nisiw365:
That's what i am telling you. Anybody can claim French or English and it doesn't necessarily mean the person is French or English
This matter has been debated already. Check the culture section on Nairaland and search for it
What you showed me is your own story. There are different stories on Nairaland with maps, pictures that are more accurate
Showing me a picture or someone who calls himself French does not make it the truth

I am not showing any story. I brought out documents written by eyewitnesses to our ancestors and I pointed my finger to those documents which proved my claim without any doubt. You can't just magically turn objective truth into my "story"


The frenchness of the french author is not in doubt except in your head.
If you have "more accurate maps" whatever that means, then produce them rather than claiming some people have them and that they prove your claim.

You are basically being an infant right now.

Nisiw365:
Lagos was never part of Benin. They might have traded together in the past but definitely not under as you guys are making it to look

It is already proven that Lagos was part of Benin. A french eye witness among many others said it clearly.
Also the precolonial maps say the same. You are debating with reality, not with me.

"Captain Horseley called it Eco, and that is how the yebous refer to it; but it is not their land: it belongs to Benin, whom have named it Korame, you can recognise the Curamo from older Portuguese reports, just like Eko represents the Ichoo from Holland Hydrographs. Long ago Korame was linked to its metropolis by a very narrow piece of land contained between the great Laguna and the sea; but it has been a while since the Yebous have seazed that very narrow piece of land of which the eastern extremity was invaded by ouyo pirates; and Karamé remained isolated at the extremity of the great Laguna, while it continues to receive from Benin it's governor or political chief."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvaiC_djW8o

Nisiw365:
You're the one saying rubbish. If your Benin ruled over Lagos, there should be a Benin king, just one king from Benin in Lagos state today.
Onikoyi who is from oyo, migrated to Lagos
Today there's onikoyi of ikoyi in Lagos state

Show us of your Benin evidence or keep shut forever

So basically, you are saying that proving lagos was part of Benin is not enough for you to accept that as a fact, I also need to dive into answering further questions from you and debating some of your unsubstantiated claims with you ?

Summary:
1) I claimed Lagos was part of Benin.
2) I backed my claim with proof.

End of story. I won't be joining an everlasting conversation with a deluded person who keeps making unsubstantiated claims. I won't even address your unsubstantiated claims.

Nisiw365:
Shut up. Anyone can design website, write nonsense and put fake map. You should know this unless you are a kid.
The story is fake from Edo blog

The website is a very well known website which belongs to one of the five greatest libraries in this world: Bibliothèque nationale de France.
You are just saying complete rubbish.
I wonder how far your education went, you don't seem to have gone beyond secondary school.

Nisiw365:
Nonsense map from Edo blog. Throw this nonsense into dustbin

The origin of the map is there for all to see, and the website hosting it is also public knowledge. So why are you just saying complete rubbish ?

https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8595583b/f1.item.r=Benin.zoom

Your ethnocentrism might be frying your brain cells.

An actual precolonial map of the region:

https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8595583b/f1.item.r=Benin.zoom

Lagos, and it's environs were part of Benin, even the jebous were vassals to Benin. Fact.