₦airaland Forum

Mudley313:
How does it feel to be WORSHIPING a pure work of fiction?

How would I know

Deep Sight:
You have referred me to the spirit, the body and the soul.

1. What about the mind? Has it no place in your dimensional human ontology?
2. What is the difference between the spirit and the soul?

In essence, I state to you that a human being is a SPIRIT.

For the short sojourn on earth, it requires a material body (never mind that some of your Christian cohorts believe such bodies to be used in heaven as well, lol).

There is no reason to suppose any “Trinity” of the human ontology: and I assert to you that that inference is made ONLY to support the paganistic and distinctly polytheist doctrine of the trinity. And please don’t waste my time with talk about tri-theism: I am not the one indicating a triad of any sort – you can go and sort out the mystical details of your paganism yourselves.

Do you realize that this applies to every human  being? We are all a manifestation of God, no?

Indeed everything in existence is a manifestation of the mind of the Godhead.

Why should we presuppose one to be God and another not God?

God is compound, infinite, and omni-inherent in all things, (if I may use the word). This presupposes that you and I are sparks of spirit germs that emanated from God. No different from Mr. Jesus from Nazareth, no?


Now you are invalidating the sacrifice of Christ.

For if he died as any normal mortal does, only to take up his soul again – which is the normal trajectory for all beings – then what was so special or different about his death? Indeed it emerges that he laid down nothing – because he was immaterial before coming to the world, used his material body in the world, and departed from it at death. So what exactly did he lay down? Not his immaterial essence, surely. Thus he laid down nothing.

I am not certain that you understand the business of the supposed sacrifice on which you hinge your faith.

Talking about sacrifices, I am sure you detest ritualists who engage in Human Sacrifice?

Why then do you ascribe such barbarism to God? Is God into human sacrifice? [/b]If Christian dogma is to be believed, he clearly revels in such.

AND YOU – you actually hinge your “salvation” on a supposed human sacrifice.

[b]I cannot think of any pagan spectre more ritualistic, sinister or repulsive than this.

The finite is limited. The infinite is limitless. A limitless being cannot be held in a limited vessel. That’s simply illogical.

Your body is not infinite. It is very finite.

Yes. Looks like you are getting confused. Of course the finite can be contained within the infinite exactly because the infinite if limitless and can thus contain all limited things. But the reverse is logically impossible.

Nice attempt. But those numbers are merely abstract indicative integers. It cannot be said that [1 – 2] is a “vessel” which contains infinity. It is not a vessel. It is an abstract indication of integers, and we may express integers infinitely.

This is different from a Cup – which like a human body is a finite vessel.

If an ocean is said to be infinite, no cup can contain it.

Thus no human body can contain God.

Haa this all comes down to time. . . oya let me quickly answer you

Your first answer is silly. . . It is the soul that constitutes the mind. Every beings spirit comes from God and would later return to him. ALL SPIRITS
Read your bible. . . it is the soul that would be damned to heaven or hell. you are a spirit, you have a soul(which includes your mind) and you live in a body. . .

Also thank God you have no answer to the concept of being and if I am right that is what this thread is all about,

where would you infer from what I posted that we are all manifestations of God?? we have a spirit that comes from God(this is what gives us life)
Jesus's soul( his mind and all) was God the son. . . . He was essentially God.

It is and indication of numbers, abstract not. . . this is a perfect analogy that indicates to you that the finite, can be part of the existence of the infinite. . . it is very simple.

And for your last retort I have explained it. . . God is infinite in matter of time(is this not what you are reffering to??) or are you saying that it is his MASS that is infinite . . . you have seen the perfect explanation. . .
what I am going to say after this is unwarranted but let me just address your wrong ocean analogy anyway
If an ocean is Infinte, it contains a localised body of water somewhere. . . are you sayin it cannot?? of which people point to this finite part (as they cannot see the whole ocean) and say "look at the ocean". . .

jagunlabi:
It is once said by a wise man that the "truth" is like a gigantic mirror smashed on the ground into hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of pieces. Each person comes along and pick one single piece from the multitude of pieces of this mirror, calls it "THE ONLY TRUTH", and build a whole religion or philosophy around that single piece . And not only that, as more people come along and pick one piece each, they all declare they have the only truth and then they inexplicably start battling each other for supremacy over who has the real truth, the whole mirror, not knowing that what each of them have in their possession is only a piece of the broken mirror each. They shout, curse, judge, maim, kill and destroy each other over who owns the only truth when they are all holding only parts of the whole mirror, the whole truth. Is that not madness borne of ignorance? Is that not insanity in it's most extreme form? You will find such madness going on here on nairaland religion forum. It can be truly hilarious sometimes to watch people argue on whose piece of broken mirror is the whole mirror!Hahaha!

To ever get close to the "truth" a man needs a vastly open mind, a vast consciousness, and not a caged  and narrow mind that causes nothing but a very very very limited tunnel vision that can only allow the sighting of one single piece of the truth at a time.

if there are multitudinous pieces that are a part of a whole, then each piece should fit right in with the next, support it, their tenets should oil each other and strengthen such that as they are laid side by side they fit perfectly to form the mirror.
If u think this is analogous to religion hahaha u must be seriously deluded. most religions account of God and his nature, what he wants from us, and the way to get to him are in complete contradiction to the others. . . .

Ur half mirror analogy also points to the fact that each religion should tell only a little about God. . . maybe one religion should talk about his nature, another should talk about the way to get to him, another should talk about his commandments, another should talk about creation, and thats how religions should be. . . thus u can see how misconceived the analogy appears to be.

Imagine we want to build the perfect man:
should we get men with perfect characteristics and join them together. should we get a man with the perfect hand, another man with the perfect eyes, another man with the perfect mouth. . . . and join them all together??
That will not make the perfect man. . . that will make a confused constitution made out of the perfect parts that cannot combine to form a perfect whole

Be wise. God is absolute. He is.

And of course all religions have truths just as If I want to prove to you that 2+2=5, I could start out with 2 = 1+1 (which is true), however not all proofs giv us the right answer, which is what we need.
God has given you the right answer, not a bunch of impurities that have to be filtered then joined together to constitute a not-so-absolute God

Mhismole:
my heart, lol fancy finding you here ,

@streetwize, you know me?? lol i cant deduce,

check out my signature. . . useless girl. .

Ask her if she can deduce who I am. . .

huh

ahh thank you Inesqor, I would have gone on. . . but hope Gabry can understand what I was trying to say prior to my sermon when she reads ur post

Lol I still have a lot to say. . .

Gabry:
Im giving you a statement about Africans and other races its because you are giving me a talk on colours of a cloth which also has nothing to do with my topic. How can you ask someone on which of these accounts of God is true? Who knows what is true? If I know what is the real truth, I would be God by now. That is the reason why we have so many religions today. I admire you for looking up solely on Christianity and seeing the truth in it but all Im saying is that its not right for you to only think that Christianity is the truth. If it is, everyone would be a Christian by now. Im also not saying that Christianity is wrong as well.

The only time I can know what is the truth is when God comes down and show me whats the truth. Other than that, whatever is good for myself, I would take it in like a good knowledge.

To be honest with you, I dont know what are you trying to prove with this your equation but like what jagunlabi said earlier:-

@ streetwize, How are u sure that Christian is 2 + 2 = 4? How sure can u be?

oh lord . . . that was an analogy: an example to show you how u are thinking.
The analogy was that: a)the cloth you are wearing has a particular colour
                                    b)I do not know the colour of cloth you are wearing
                                    c) because I am not sure of the colour, should I now say that the colour of ur cloth is all colours??

It is the same as           a) there is a God
                                     b) you do not know which religion gives the right account of him
                                     c) because you are not sure, should you now say that all religions are correct (even when some religions expressly say that the others are wrog leading to a contradiction)



And how many times do you want me to repeat my self this girl. . .
I have faith that christainity is 2+2 = 4

anyone else on this thread should forgive me for goin into this bcuz as u have read I have been trying to prevent it fro happening
but Gabry has forcefully pushed me to it.

Gabry assuming you haven't been to Australia. do you know that Australia exists?? no bcuz knowledge comes from direct testimony to an event or fact, all you can do is believe that the testimony of those who tell you that Australia exists is true, or that the television isn't showing you a computer generated image and so on and so forth. . . you build your belief that there is an Australia due to evidence gathered that may substantiate the claim

Same as with christainity
Evidence not proof is the key: For askin me to prove or disprove my God's existence is like asking harry potter to prove or disprove the existence of JK Rowlings.
Evidence on the other hand is readily available. Evidence is divided into 2 parts: Personal and Logical
I will present 1 or 2 logical points
Firstly the bible: The most consistent text, written by a host of scholars, disciples, prophets who lived in so many different eras and yet contains no major discrepancies, which means that these men managed to give the same account of God.
You can see the bible as many different texts which give the same account of God!!! what could be more convincing

Prophecies: The biblical prophecies given in the texts by Isaiah and Jeremiah and other prophets of the bible which came to pass point to a divine source of information. I will advise you to get on google and read the prophecies of the bible, how they came to pass etc etc, they are numerous.

Evidence for the existence of Jesus christ and his workings as portrayed by the new testament is abundant. .

Even evidence from non-biblical sources about Jesus of nazareth, I would try to get you the link later, but I read about a historian that worked on i think a high ranking soldier or emperor that lived in the times of christ and his storie justify Jesus of Nazareth, his work and the fact that he was extremely great. . .

Even numerous scientific facts are pre-exposed in the word of God. Hosea or som1 prophesied the coming of cars!! etc etc etc this is all avidence evidence evidence, that the bible is. .  truth and the word of God. . . no other religious text can even begin to compare to it. .  I suggest you study articles about authentication of the bible.

Also its impact on civilization, mainly the fact that morality is mostly dictated by its laws and admonishments. .  come on
The bible's test of time, how many years and its still one of the best selling books in the world. mehn If any of the religious texts were supernatural wont the obvious choice be this one



Anyway

?? oh so ur now sayin tha

Gabry:
The one in Red is what I meant. You dont just believe its just Christianity now. Ok now tell me, if you think Christianity is the truth, what do you think about other religions? Are they also the truth like Christianity?

Ok since you wanted to put it that way, lets say you are African and you think the Africans arethe truth. Does that mean the other races and cultures are not the truth and that they are a fraud?  And did I mention that Im shying away from my own religion? If I was embarrass of my own religion, I wouldnt even mention Mother Mary and Jesus Christ and God and worst of all, I would not even mention that I am a Catholic.

what do you mean i feel africans are the truth(in what sense does this statement come into play. what is the question. what are we even talking about here). . this doesnt even make sense. . . ur analogy is plain silly. .

or should I align it in steps so u can easily understand

there is a God.(Im assuming that you believe this)

different people giv contradictory accounts of him

one must be true . . . which is it??

now Gabri answer me this. If 2+2 = 4 then what do u think about the statement 2+2 = 5
As I have said b4, I believ xtainity is the truth and in fact unlike any other christain would have done I did not even admonish u to do the same. .
however if u want to provoke this argument, I warn you that I am even itching to get into it with you. . .

My point from the very beginning has been very simple, which of these accounts of God is true
Let me guess ur answer. . all . . . even when one account tells that the other is wrong?. . your stance is plain contradictory

I will also reiterate that I do not discriminate amongst other religions, I have friends that hav difft religious backgrounds, but I will never be Ignorant enough to say that they are all right. Som1 is right. . . and you better get your head around that.

oh wait wait and what about. . . the difference between zodiac mudley and jagunlabi. . .

nuffing

they are just fictional characters conjured up by my computer to precede the nonesense it shows on the screen. . .

??
U have said nothing
please re-read

let me not have to explain to you again. . I hate spoon-feedin old men

Gabry. . . please tell me wher in my post I imposed un u that christainity is the truth. . . I merely told u that there is a truth, and I believe it is christainity, what ever u choose to belive it is is ur cup of tea
not that u'll run around proclaiming that everything is the truth. . what kind of stupid logic is that. . .

My point is that there is a truth, and trying to shy away from it by saying that everything, even contradictory religions are all true is just plain ignorant.
Its like me saying that since I do not know the colour of the cloth ur wearing right now, then it is both black, white, yellow , green, indigo, violet, red, blue, gray . . . and whatever other colours there are

pwetty

oh boy this hair no easy oh. . . haba. .

then Jayz ignored Dave and started singin on to the next one, while beyonce cried for help singing Halo. . .

lol thnx mehn

ahh u know mhismole. . . interestin. . . nawa 4 dis life oh. .

Is scared of online stalkers

the plane starts shakin like say person dey pound pounded yam. . .

I like

jagunlabi:
And, according to you, that 2+2=4 is  . . . christianity? Why not islam or hinduism or judaism, or any other religious ideology?

To a muslim, 2+2=5 would be christianity or hinduism or buddhism or taoism or judaism. In other words, all religious ideologies, no matter in what cloak they are wrapped in, are all 2+2=5. It all depends on from whose perspective is the equation viewed. Catch my drift?

my point is that 2 + 2 has a definite answer. I have not labelled this answer, which is what I was trying not to do in order not to derail this thread. And yes I do think my answer is right and others think theirs is right too, just as som1 who thinks 2+2 = 5 is right. my point is that because people are fighting over what really is the answer does not mean that they are all correct. There is an answer!! and som1 is right. whether you would like to believe thats me is a different matter all together and a matter for another thread.

lets say for the purpose of this argument the muslim is correct and he said that 2 + 2 = 4, and I said 2 + 2 = 5, it means I was WRONG!!!. . . there is a truth that 2 + 2 = 4.

reads some kinda manga

No. . . clearly what the bible says

who. . .

see hair abeg

noetic16:
What do u understand by faith? what other belief system uses the concept of faith?. .  . .is their faith doctrine the same as xtianity?

dont mind him, Mudley, maybe you should also say that your faith in no God is also contradictory and thus nobody should have a mind of any sort bcuz beliefs clash. Since that means that belief contradicts itself and thus no one must believe anything. .

How do these people think?? 

mazaje:
Genesis 1:1[b] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth[/b].

Where did God live before he created heaven? Since it is always said that heaven is where the bible God resides.

ooh ooh me me . . . . I know what sounds more logical. .

In the beginning nothing created everything. . . . . . yeye. . .

Anyone should be able to deduce what HEAVENS means here. . . anybody??. .

Deep Sight:
@ Streetwize -

I am in transit at an airport now and cannot write much.

I will just drop a few thots.

1. What does the oneness of the GODHEAD mean to you?

2. If God is presumed to be one supreme intangible being, do you suppose that intangible oneness is something that can be [b]"divided" [/b]or broken up into parts in such a manner as to permit one part to reside on earth as a man and another part to remain in its transcendental realm? Does this make any sense to you, or do you belong to the christian hoard who are bent on insisting that the founder of their religion, a man called Jesus from Nazareth, is almighty God? I urge you to examine the facts for yourself objectively - you will find that the doctrine of the trinity has no biblical support: and even if it did that would not in any way validate the elevation of a mere mortal to almighty God any more than the existence of any Hindu text can justify the ascription of Divinity to cows.

In 2010, I remain astonished that educated persons can believe these things.

I understand "the Father" to be a reference to God.

Jesus Christ is a late human being. A proven mere mortal. Doubtless a messenger of God, but no more eminent than any other messenger of God such as Moses. Why should i presuppose him to be in any "trinity" with almighty God? You might as well suppose the Buddha, Mohammad, the Dalai Lama, Confucius, Lao Tze, Guru Maharaji and Olumba Olumba Obu to be part of the Godhead as well? ? ?

The Holy Spirit is simply a reference to the power, spirit and radiation of God which permeates all existence. There is no reason to think of it as a separate being in any terms. It is simply the activating power of God.

It was and remains apt that i abandoned that thread for I realized that it might make no sense attempting to expound transcendental truth to persons whose only object is to dispute every rational word simply on account of a dislike of the person who speaks it. When you learn to address the message and not the messenger, perhaps we can make progress.

O, and by the way, if you will read that thread again, you will see that we were able to establish at least the following -

1. That nothingness in itself implies timelessness

2. That a timeless state will remain eternal

3. That eternity is therefore implied in a state of nothingness

4. That a timeless state is indivisible and therefore ONE

5. That the intangible reality that has always existed is therefore both ONE and INFINITE -

-  Hence the term "Oneness of Infinity" which i use to describe the nature of God - a term which no Christian should seriously dispute because the Bible itself describes God as being ONE and INFINITE. It thus emerges that your faith in every particular agrees with the description of God contained within the term "Oneness of Infinity" - but YOU have chosen to self-contradict and deny this simply on account of some imaginary feud with the proponent of the description - Mr. Deep Sight.

Verily, the day will come when i will describe God as loving, just and perfect, and you will disagree - simply because it is i who states it.

An intangible and infinite reality such as the Godhead is, CANNOT be reduced into ANY FORM WHATSOEVER - and that includes the form of a man.

The reason rests in the very ineffability, intangibility and infinity of the Godhead.

The finite CANNOT contain the infinite.

You seem to totally misunderstand the concept of BEING
Ontology makes it quite clear( as sartre did, that being is not individual) According to ontology(the study of being) a "being" refers to ones state of expressin or manifesting the attribute "to be". U can see where thats goin so I wont waste time

In essence God Is a being that consists three manifestations or if you prefer three persons. .  the father, son and holy spirit. Just as you are a being that consists of a spirit, a soul and a body. you are also three in one or howd you think your being could still manifest when your body is left to rot on earth.

Anyway, yes Jesus was 100% man and 100% God. I fail to see how educated people in 2010 cant see how this was possible.
Its like saying. .  Im 100% animal and 100% human being, what is illogical about this.

The answer to your questions is simple
Jesus was the physical manifestation of the member of the God head called God the son. God the son did not die he was. . . if you want me to put it like this. .  the soul of the being whose total entity we called Jesus. It is just as your body will die and your soul will continue to live on.
God the son is Jesus thus Jesus is God the son who is in turn God. . . Is this illogical in any way??

Now for your very last and very careless statement. You say that the finite cannot hold the infinite?? what is your basisfor this silly rodomontade. .
so that I last longer that the t-shirt I am wearing means that I cannot wear the t-shirt. .  where do these people get all these silly ideas from??
God the son wore a body, that the body now expired means what exactly?? una dey always surprise me oh

And for your information, it was actually the infinite that contained the finite
what your saying is like saying that because the distance from (1-2) cannot be expressed on the numberline because the number line is infinite, but (1-2) is finite. . . shora e oh. . .

Gabry, I believe xtianity is truth. . . but don't get me wrong, this doesn't mean I'm intolerant to other religions or anything
Let me try to illustrate

2 + 2 = 4

now if someone comes up to me and says he believes that 2 + 2 = 5, I wont jump up and cry out ur a retard. . . cuz he probably really doesn't know, all Ill try to do is help him understand that 2 + 2 = 4 and why. . .

I believe u've been searching and have come to your conclusions based on the fact that u cant wrap your head around an answer so U just conclude that 2 + 2 must equal everything and nothing. . .

Please don't give up. . . search, there is truth, there is an answer(personally I believe its Jesus). . . but it still remains that 2 + 2 equals something specific, everything cannot be right. .

Its like when astronomy and cosmology and all that were searching for the orientation of planets and the sun, the fact that they did not all agree, did not mean that the sun and planets had ALL orientations, or No orientation at all, It just meant they head to search a lil more to find the true ORIENTATION. .

ilosiwaju:
Sad, sad, sad.  
Streetwize, read my post well and see that it's not in any way insulting to you, if you find "not understanding" something offensive, goodluck with that. Liss,you're people's online parental control now? What next. . .seun, ban ilosiwaju?
Pleeeeeeaaaase!

I didnt insult u either, I just didnt understan the second part. .

ok now

Be who u r, u r overreactin oh. . . wein be dis one. .  oh boy get a hold of urself and be a man
go and talk to ur fiancee or whatever and stop slanderin her on the internet, kilode. . u self ur disappointin ke.
Ur surprised yes. . but if ur d perfect man sia was talkin about ull be far more mature than this. . .

Deep Sight:
As for the God preached by the bible, he has always been distinctly single -

"Hear o Israel, the Lord our God is one God" - Deut. 6:4.

hear oh nairaland, the smith family is one family. . so

InesQor:
@streetwize: Deep Sight is not an atheist, he believes in deity. He is a deist, but his own brand of deism does not seem to understand itself so as much as he is the acclaimed prophet of the Oneness of Infinity, he is also the only one who knows and is known to that intangible Oneness of Infinity (OOI) which some of us asked him to discuss and when he began to murder mathematics and logic and we prevented him, he fled the thread. Since January.

@Deep Sight: Can you please present your logical rationale for your assurance that God CAN NOT take any form he so desires (e.g. Man), the same way you will choose your words in your response to this? In the same light, pls indicate other things that your OOI deity is unable to do.

LMAO!!