₦airaland Forum

[quote author=Maria-Goretti]she has already being chosen long ago before the world came to be for this purpose....so Joseph was just a helper..that was his mandate and mission in life...to help bring up, provide for the son of God.[/quote]Which verse of the Bible is this stated?

[quote author=Maria-Goretti]the most important issue here is to make sure that at the end you will be among those rewarded......now, whether you like it or not, some things are not meant for human understanding. If you think it is wrong to actually ask the BVM to intercede, then dont do it but dont judge those doing it. You know why? You dont even know if what you beleive in is actually what it is....you are just about the bible....look around you, a lot of things are changing. The same some pastors get revelations from God, that is the same way Mary visited the 3 little kids at Fatima......and that was the birth of the rosary.
Ask yyourself this question...
Do you really think God would have allowed that to happen if he had not already honoured and Chosen the BVM?[/quote]I believe the Bible to be the word of God inspired and do not believe in any testimony or doctrine not rooted in the bible.

damerry: Yea, dat part was based on early church theology @ St. Augustine, yea handmaid means servant, since she conceived of the Holy spirit, and submitted herself entirely to the working of the spirit and remained ever-virgin what will u call her?

You mean from servant, she became spouse So she became spouse to Holy Spirit and Joseph?. Then she remained a virgin (how?) Did Jesus came out through her mouth? How was the virginity sustained?

damerry: Take it or leave it, mary was and remained ever-virgin

Not Biblical

damerry: like i earlier said, mary interceeds for us! We entrust our supplications and praises to her which she presents to Jesus. So our prayers get to Jesus is that not asking in his name? If it's not, in whose name do we ask for? Mary is the surest way to christ heart, a good Mothe always care for her children, when Jesus entrust mary to john he said '' *woman* behold your son'' that *woman* confirms mary as the new eve, who is now the mother of all mankind.

Did Christ gave her that role in the Bible?, No! Did He asked us to send Mary to Him in prayers?, No!. When Mary went to meet Him where He was teaching, did he stand to give her any special recognition?, No!, Who did Jesus called His mother and brothers? We!

Bible never commanded us to pray asking for Mary's help (or other saints). We pray to God the Father through Jesus, nothing more.

alexleo: Thanks dear. you cant imagine the stage they ve gone with their practice. A secondary School teacher close to me once told me how a student in her class finished writing her papers and came under the answer script and wrote- I AM A CHOSEN, WHO ARE YOU?

The teacher was so angry and even wanted to throw away the script but i advised she should rather call the student and warn her. This is not good at all.
Same statement that they claim they ask robbers and they run away? So is it for the teacher to mark them right where they are wrong or what? And if the teacher had thrown away the script in that anger would that have also been a miracle?

Can you imagine that?, that lady is poorly thought the word of God. A possible tragedy is if the teacher had thrown out her scripts and she stops believing in God altogether metamorphosing into another Logic boy (girl 3). Christian teachings should be balance and devoid of human ideas.

2 Timothy 2:15
New International Version
Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth

damerry: Jesus was the only son of Mary, those brothers and sisters could be cousins or relations. If Jesus had blood brothers why did he entrust his mother to John the beloved at the cross? After Jesus death john took care of Mary as his mother where were Jesus brothers and sisters? Being the spouse of the Holy spirit goes to prove Mary as ever-virgin. She ''remained a virgin in giving birth to him, a virgin in carrying him, a virgin in nursing him at her breast, always a virgin'' (st Augustine, serm. 186, 1 PL 38, 999): with her whole being, she is the ''handmaid of the Lord'' (LK 1:38)

Cant find St. Augustine in my bible

Handmaid means servant not spouse

damerry: Dude, seeking Mary's intercession does not mean we pray in her name, she is the easiest channel to Christ heart, she present our prayers to Jesus and ask him to help us. All said and done our prayers through Mary are forwarded to Jesus, and Jesus listens dearly to his Mother request, this makes Mary the easiest way to Christ heart. Dude calm down and start learning from the basics of our doctrine.

How did you know this? was it stated in the Bible?

King James 2000 Bible (John 14:13)
And whatsoever you shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. Cant find Mary in the bolded

damerry: Jesus was the only son of Mary, those brothers and sisters could be cousins or relations. If Jesus had blood brothers why did he entrust his mother to John the beloved at the cross? After Jesus death john took care of Mary as his mother where were Jesus brothers and sisters?

John 7 verses 1-5
7 And after these things Jesus was going about in Galilee. For he did not want to go about in Judea, because the Jews were seeking to kill him. 2 Now the feast of the Jews—the feast of Tabernacles—was near. 3 So his brothers said to him, “Depart from here and go to Judea, so that your disciples also can see your works that you are doing. 4 For no one does anything in secret and yet he himself desires to be publicly recognized.[a] If you are doing these things, reveal yourself to the world!” 5 (For not even his brothers believed in him.)

Mark 3: 31-33
31Then His mother and His brothers arrived, and standing outside they sent word to Him and called Him. 32A crowd was sitting around Him, and they said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are outside looking for You." 33Answering them, He said, "Who are My mother and My brothers?

His brothers did not believe in him and were not part of His followers at that time and hence are not expected to show up at the cruxification.

We know John the baptist was a son of Elizabeth and a second cousin to Jesus, none was started again, so why would you just assumed (even though you are not sure) that they are cousins of Jesus?, none of the 4 Gospel mentioned this theory of yours. They were called his brothers, they were in the company of Jesus mother to seek him

alexleo: Ok bros am sorry where i offended you in my presentations about chosen. But i still stand against those ugly practices and traditions i mentioned. You have a responsibility to educate your members on the need to drop all those things and focus on Jesus. Go through the new testament books the apostles focused on Jesus Christ and truly our heavenly race and christianity is all about Jesus. You can start from educating a few youths, when they are convinced they keep educating others and by so doing it spreads. Make the discussion informal and very friendly. Dont present it as if you are attacking the church. if you do it that way they will see you as an enemy of progress and you lose the mission. God bless you.

bizmahn: Some of the possible excesses in the chosen is largely due to overexitment & overzealouness by a young church that witnessed unprecedented move of God as of old & as at its fourth year they have become the fastest growing church worldwide with branches all over the world & many churches handing over their churches to chosen.
-
If you study history of church revivals you discover than when people encounter unusual move of God they overreact many times from exitment.Kumuyi had to do a lot to correct members at the height of deeper life revival fire still ablaze in the 80's & 90's.
-
My point of this thread is to try to correct the impression that because a young church is getting overexcited doesn't mean the allegation that the pastor is a satanic agent that covenanted with satan is correct.Yet I agree fully that the chosen has a lot of clean up to do.

I think this settles the matter with me for now. We should let them know the name that chases satan, break bondage, destroy shackles is JESUS, no addition or afikun ( eg god of chosen, god of baba ijesha, god of my pastor). Beyond this, Chosen members should know they are not the only one going to heaven and should stop attacking other denominations they perceived 'unholy' compared to them as long as they preach the bible only. I will be taking a close look at this ministry henceforth

[quote author=Maria-Goretti]what makes you think others have a different opinion, uh?
What other explanation do you need?[/quote]None, i just wanted to be sure, i have a friend on this thread who has been playing hide and seek with that question.

Back to the main discussion

2 Timothy 3, 14-16
14But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned [them]; 15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

The Bible should be the basis of all Christian doctrines and should be a reference point to all issues relating to a Christian life.

If Mary was with a special ministry or if we should use her name in prayers, it would be stated in the Bible. There was no teaching or parable of Christ or the Apostles where Mary (or any other saints) where asked to be used in prayers.

Instead Christ asked us to pray in His name
King James 2000 Bible (John 14:13)
And whatsoever you shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

The word 'whatsoever' leaves no Christian in doubt (Prayers of forgiveness, supplication etc), he said we should ask in His name, unless you believe Jesus doesn't know what He is saying, He never mentioned any other name, not Mary, not Paul, not saints but in the name of Jesus.

Pray only in Jesus Name and nothing more

[quote author=Maria-Goretti]@Superior,
you tired of dealing with one of us?[/quote]I dont get that?

bizmahn: To my knowledge,the chosen pray only in the name of Jesus Christ the living son of God.It is true that the members of the chosen by the reason of the unprecedented & dumbfounding salvation testimonies,miracles,revelations,revivals in the chosen are fully persuaded that the God & Father of our Lord Jesus Christ is the God working in the chosen.[b]So they choose to call him the God of the Chosen & I don't see any harm in that though many people condemn it.In deeper life some say the God of Kumuyi,in winners the God of oyedepo.Same with many other churches.But all prayers in the chosen is done in the name of Jesus.Every true christian in prayer & praising God has named God so many wonderful names including the God of Abraham,Isaac & Jacob.[/b]I was there during a testimony when a ritualist tagged a chosen member "omo baba Ijesha" before releasing the chosen member.Since then the baba Ijesha name has been making rounds.But Pastor Lazarus stood up abruptly one time & told members that God alone is the baba Ijesha.My brother critics will use irrelevant things to try to run down a ministry.

It is true i use God of Abraham, Isaac etc in my worship (those names are revealed in the bible) but i only pray in Jesus Name. I have problem with folks praying in the name of the god of my pastor, the name of baba ijesha, god of chosen, god of adeboye, there is none of these names in the Bible referring to God. If folks will strictly without waivering stay only with the bible, Christianity will have no problem with heresy.

damerry: yes, it's not in the Bible. But her life ministry proves that she is the easiest way to christ heart, so what are you waiting for? Rush to the nearest catholic shop, get yourself a rosary , and start seeking her powerful intercession. Besides do you think her apparitions ain't real?

@all, does this reflect the positions of all other Catholics on this thread?

damerry: Dude go through the write-up again. Mary's marriage to josesph wasn't consumated.

Mark 6:3 "Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?" And they took offense at Him. 4 And Jesus said to them

Who gave birth to the other brothers of Jesus?

damerry: She was the spouse the holy spirit means her child Jesus was conceived of the holy spirit and not of human seed.

how did you came about that definition of spouse?

A spouse is a partner in a marriage, civil union, domestic partnership or common-law marriage. (source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spouse)

damerry: Dude, must everyting come from the bible before you believe? Today's Bible does not contain and teach everyting about Christ ministry on earth. Well i believe you know that christ's disciples were all martyrd except john the beloved, can you give me citations from the bible that says so?
Back to your main question, from Mary's intercession at the weding of cana what moral or spiritual lesson can you fathom-out from there? Mary had been close to Jesus during his ministry, she was even with him at the foot of the cross when he died, she was there when he was taken down from the cross (seat of mercy) from the time of annunciation she co-operated with his ministry even after his death. After her son's ascension Mary '' aided the beginnings of the church by her prayers '' in her association with the apostles and several women '' Mary is our mother in the order of grace, even when she was taken up into heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation
thus the blessed virgin is invoked in the church under the titles of advocate, helper, benefactress and mediatrix.
Please bro, i dey beg u. If you really want to learn walk-into any catholic bookshop and buy *The catechism of the catholic church revised editions paulines/ st pauls* If you must argue, remember that it is
impossible to defeat an ignorant man in
argument.
.........William Gibbs McAdoo

Thanks damerry for responding to my question however you didn't state where we are asked to pray in or through Mary. The titles advocate, helper etc are not accorded Mary in the Bible. Infact Mary immaculate conception wasn't pronounced until 1834 and Mother of God doctrine was just ratified as recently as 1931.

Hence, we do not have it in the bible where we are asked to pray in and through Mary

Good arguments, can you comment on the issue of god of chosen, god of my pastor, baba ijesha etc like some mentioned earlier, is it true members of the church pray in these names?

Syncan: I twisted your words?

https://www.nairaland.com/1374779/want-church-camp-where-stay#17070958

Where in the Bible were we asked to pray in and through Mary?

Syncan: Yeah, in another thread, for a similar circumstance,you accused Italo of not being knowledgeable enough in the catholic faith, now I am the one not knowledgeable enough. Thanks "your Omniscience", it is well noted. Since you've discovered this, why not enlighten me on your knowledge and start answering mine.

Stop twisting my words, I only asked you to give room for more knowledgeable Catholics.

Where in the Bible were we asked to pray through and in Mary's name?

My other question asked earlier

Did Mary actually got married (like you did to your wife,if you did have one) to the Holy Spirit? What of her marriage to Joseph was it without sex? Was Mary married to both Joseph and Holy Spirit?

Syncan: Exactly my thought. You came hear to ridicule and not to enlighten nor learn. I should show you where something is written in the Bible when you have not told me why the bible should be the Judge, and not the TANAKH or quran or any other book for that matter. Ok keep waiting.

You are entitled to your thought, I asked a question first and wanted you to answer it before I responded to yours (which you raised after mine). Answering questions with another is it the best way of explaining your believe. If you can't answer it, give room to more knowledgeable Catholics to do justice to the question.

Where in the Bible were we asked to pray through or in Mary's name?

Syncan: Thats the point. Why the bible?

You have not answered the question, where? If there isn't, then answer so

Syncan: If I may ask, why do you believe that the "bible" and not the Jewish "TANAKH" for instance is the authoritative word of God?

If and when you answer my question, I will gladly respond to your question.

Where in the Bible were we asked to pray in or through Mary?

Double27: Your eyes also because you are blind to the bible passage that says . . ' from today hence forth all generations will call me blessed . . '
Incase you don't know GOD first honoured mary.

All Christians are blessed just like Abraham was and we don't pray in Abraham's name. Can you show where in the Bible we are asked to pray in the name of Mary?

Pastor Olu T: Emusan has done justice to it, but just to buttress his point.

U said a concise definition, the Holy Spirit is simply the Spirit of God. But to add, we also have our own individual spirits which is different from that of God. God created us a 3 dimensional being, If u desire to know more check out my thread Man a 3 dimensional being.
We contact the spirit realm with our spirit, the intellectual realm with our soul and the physical realm with our body.

The holy Ghost is absolutely necessary to accept Jesus, the bible says no one can say Jesus is Lord without the spirit. You become n remain a xtian by the Spirit, for the bible also says anyone that does not have the spirit of Christ in him is none of His.

Is it possible for you to write Christian (instead of xtian)?. Like Christmas (written xmas). canceling Christ (it is something you want cancel, you mark X) in CHRISTian, CHRISTmas originates from people who celebrates black easter and black sabbath (i only hope you know who they).

[quote author=Maria-Goretti]Prayer To Mary, Mother of Jesus the Saviour:

O Mary, Mother of Jesus the saviour,
I salute you, I honour you, I revere you
Never was it known, that any of your children, who came to you, with tears and supplications, failed to get your attention. Her I have come to you, my Mother..may your son, Jesus the Saviour, have mercy on me, hear me and answer my prayers.
O blessed Virgin, spouse of the Holy spirit and Mother of Jesus the Saviour...pray for us. Amen.[/quote]Can you show us from the pages of the Holy Bible where Jesus asked us to pray in the name of Mary

damerry: Perpetual Virginity:
There was never any question of Mary
having further children after Jesus, she was
the Spouse of the Holy Sprit, the immaculate
temple of God. Early writings tell us that the
“brethren” mentioned in scripture were
children brought to the marriage by St
Joseph, whether these children were his
own, or again, just part of a wider family
group is unclear (the word, “brethren” in
the language of that day encapsulated a
wider family circle i.e. cousins etc.)
Early Christians called Mary “The Window of
Heaven” because through her God poured
the “True Light” upon the world..

I need help with the bolded, you mean Joseph's marriage to Mary wasn't consummated with sex?, how interesting and Mary was a spouse to the Holy Spirit (as in, they were married like husband and wife). Do you care to show me this from the pages of the Holy Bible?. How can Mary be married to 2 persons (Joseph and Holy Spirit?)

@Alexleo,well said

jdilight: How do you know people are being saved? are you the savior?

lt is meet for a servant to be as his lord nt greater than his lord, I.e where your lord, shepherd, pastor is they all its servants will be?

Deceptive spirits are the most dangerous spirits attacking christians now.

l will share a story later one man shared with me on how joined a cult without knowing, thinking he was in a social club. that is what is happening now. many go to prayer houses not knowing they are cults. they preach, heal, prophesy and still lead people to their god.

wisdom is begotten of her children. Defend no man except yourself.

Truth

[quote author=Misunderstood_G]Bro!! does it look like i'm joking? I'm dead serious[/quote]If this is no joke, then your friend needs help fast. The fact he gets beaten by the spiritual husband shows his level of spirituality. He needs to be fervent in prayer and his spiritual life, he also need to get help for his wife ASAP. Which church does he attend?

Are you trying to write a novel or something

peteregwu: INSTEAD OF YOU TO PRAY AND ASK GOD TO REVEAL TO YOU ABOUT THE LORDS CHOSEN AND THE POWER BEHIND HIM, RATHER YOU HAVE TURNED TO LINDA. HMMMM....MAY THE LORD HELP YOU ALL. SEE, ONE THING IS CERTAIN THAT MOST PEOPLE AND SOME CHURCHES REALY HATE THE LORDS CHOSEN FOR ONE REASON; AND THAT IS THE MESSAGE BEING PREACHED, ZEAL AND RADICALISM FOR CHRIST. LET ME ASK YOU, WHO AKONG YOU HERE HAVE HEARD PASTOR LAZARUS MESSAGE HERE?

Why don't you address the issues raised in alexleo post. I presume you have read through the questions we want addressed since the beginning of this thread. You will make much sense and be of a better service to your church if you clear those questions