₦airaland Forum

italo: Alexleo is led by the "Holy Spirit"

Debosky is led by the "Holy Spirit"

Superior1 is led by the "Holy Spirit"

Bidam is led by the "Holy Spirit"

Shdemidemi is led by the "Holy Spirit"

Yet you are all saying different, sometimes contradictory things about what baptism is and its relation to salvation.

Could it be that we have many "Holy Spirits"

...or you people are telling lies?

Italian, tapa and yoruba may be different languages but can yet pass the same message, if you have been with an unbiased mind, you will see a common point we are trying to make.

Go from river osun to indian ocean to get baptised, it doesn't get you save. By the way, I hope you know we have different types of baptism?, so call it water baptism, because baptism is quite general

italo: You are saying baptism entails NO PHYSICAL ACT and has nothing to do with water but is only a manifestation of repentance. Hmm...this, I have never heard before.

Let us look further into the same book of Acts.

Acts 8:36 As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized?” [37] 38 And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him.

The eunuch recognized the necessity of water for baptism. If not, Philip need not have gone into the water with him.

Acts 10:47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”

And, just to tell you, I wasnt conveniently omitting anything. I was actually talking about 1Peter 3:21 which says "Baptism which now saves you"

You are obviously wrong, arent you?


...immediately after the teaching, Jesus went and had his apostles baptize people...WITH WATER.

Read from John 3:22 - 4:1.

Dear brother, you are wrong about baptism, arent you?

Italo, think of water baptism like your office I'd card. To get the card, you have to be in the company's employment first and then be issued a card. Salvation comes through repentance and believing in Christ, water baptism identifies you as a part of the body of Christ. Now, if you are not an employee or you have left the company's employment, that card is irrelevant and doesn't give you official access. Water baptism is sure relevant to the body of Christ but what saves you is not water baptism.

@all, can we discuss something more relevant to our Christian work and stop this front and back arguments.

alexleo: But baptism is neccessary for those who are saved. Example is the case of the eunuch. Who wanted to be baptized after listening to the word of God by philip, he was now asked by philip- do you believe? He accepted Jesus by his confession. Next he was baptized.

What saves you is not water baptism,water baptism is a physical identification with Christ. What I am saying is you can be water baptised and not be saved( eg, if logic boy get deeped in water in baptism, those that save him?).

italo: Mr Scripture reader, is baptism necessary for salvation?

Short answer, No!

@OP, he wrote this during his days of ignorance, he has since been born again and given his life to Jonathan. Afterall, somebody called Patience Jonathan his Lord and Saviour.

@Alexleo, not everyone is frosbel and co. Answer Italo's questions within the best of your knowledge with patience and brotherly love.

italo: Are you led by the Spirit?

Yes, to the glory of God

I just get to understand your question now
Read John 6 from the beginning to undertsand what brought about Jesus proclamation , the Jews asked him a question, read his answer in verse 29

28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Then in verse 30, they asked him another question

30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?


Then he told them manna isn’t a lasting bread, he is the true bread that came from heaven

34. They asked for the bread

34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.

35: he answered he is the bread of life, (how do eat him), he that cometh to me shall never hungry and he that believed shall never thirst. Meaning , to eat him (bread of life, his flesh), you have to come to him and to drink (his blood, living water), you have to believe him (get the point?)

35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.

41 and 42 . The Jews then said (bros, bone that thing, we know ya papa and mama, how do you now claim you come from heaven?), they afterall didn’t know about the angelic visit to Joseph and that his mother conceived before knowing a man (to them he is a product of sex like them, we know ya papa and mama)

41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.

42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?

43-47, he began telling them how he came from the father and at 47, he said something very serious “verily, verily I say unto you, he that believeth on me hath everlasting life” (that is the koko of the matter), he was still explaining from [/i]there to verse 51.

[i]43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.


52: as if the Jews were deaf (we be vampire?, how are we going to eat is flesh?) as if they didn’t not heard what he said before in verse 35 (he that cometh to me shall never hungry and he that believed shall never thirst. Meaning , to eat him (bread of life, his flesh), you have to come to him and to drink (his blood, living water), you have to believe him)
That is the event that led to his claims in verse 53-58. Italo, I hope you now get the point?

50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.

51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

What saves you is eating the flesh and drinking the blood (he that cometh to me shall never hungry and he that believed shall never thirst. Meaning , to eat him (bread of life, his flesh), you have to come to him and to drink (his blood, living water), you have to believe him). Not a bread prayed on by any priest.

He needs money for his prostitutes. If counter-fitting is low, why troubling us with his yeye theory

italo: John 6:53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.

Different people have differing notions about what this "flesh" and "blood" are; yet eating and drinking them will take us to heaven while not eating and drinking them will lead us to hell.

Who will teach us?

Similarly,

John3:3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.[a]”

4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.

Some people say this means we should just accept Jesus as personal Lord and saviour; others say being born again means being born of water and spirit which is simply baptism...and this could be the difference between heaven and hell for many souls.

Who will teach us the right thing?

New International Version (John 16:13)
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

John 14:26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

English Standard Version (Roman 8:14)
For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.

frosbel: This time read it :

Isaiah 66:24 , Malachi 4:3 .

Isaiah 66v 23-24

23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

How does this support annihilation doctrine of yours?

frosbel: your 'god' will have to apologise to Hitler, Stalin, Pol pot and all the most wicked barbaric mad men of this world if this your hell is real ( which it is not ).

You cannot punish people for their wickedness by 1000000 times more wickedness, that's not GOD, it might be the god of this world ( who will be destroyed - thankfully ), make sure you are not unwittingly his agents.

God is not answerable to your sense of equity or emotions. Hell is real

frosbel: You do err not knowing the scriptures.

Until you understand bible language in the cultural setting of the day , you will keep believing error.

In Isaiah , it was clearly stated that they will look upon , not conscious people but dead people.

Besides God is a consuming fire which means that the fire consumes any object that it comes into contact , yet you and your institutionalised friends ( ) will want us to believe that fire , more so God's fire , never consumes . Hilarious and insane at the same time.

Where in Isaiah (post the quote). You mean God is the fire that consumes in hell (let's even agree to annihilation) or God is the fire you used in cooking at home?

italo: What about the teachings that might not be so clear from scriptures to some people, yet essential for salvation...how are the people of God supposed to understand it?

Such as?

truthislight: Befor ?

Is that not obvious ? That you have problem with understanding ?

You better start helping yourself.

The only thing that I don't and will never understand is heretic doctrine which unfortunately appears to be the area of your calling

truthislight: You better Google valley of hinnom then Gehenna and read to upgrade yourself.

Google and not the Bible has been your source? Little wonder!!, then I have no business with you.

N

slickrick7: pls those who av bin there should pls help... thank you

I won't even advice such a place to an enemy.

Once a paraga seller, always a paraga seller.

shdemidemi: Revelation 20:14,15

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

I don't care what people think about this subject, the Book stills says it. And there are people who try to make believe that a God of love couldn't do this. But God's love was so great at the Cross that there is no room for removing the eternal doom of the lost person.

He's given us The Word, He's given us men who are willing to preach and teach it so we can understand that all we have to do is "BELIEVE"! Faith plus nothing! See there is no energy involved in believing, it's just accepting what God has said. No questions asked, but people don't want to do that. They simply don't want to believe what God has said concerning Salvation.

Romans 1:16

16For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

I Corinthians 15:1-4

1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Romans 10:9-10

9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

I Thessalonians 4:14

14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

There are so many more scriptures that Paul uses to show us Salvation. And when we do believe like Isaiah, then immediately because these two imperatives have now been fulfilled, what happens? He has clothed me with the garments of Salvation, and covered me with a robe of righteousness.

God bless you

alexleo: Dont mind him. here is our conclusion-


[b]Matthew 5;22
22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause[b] shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire.

Matthew 5:29,30
. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

Mark 9:43-48
43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched— 44 where

‘Their worm does not die
And the fire is not quenched.’[d]

45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched— 46 where

‘Their worm does not die,
And the fire is not quenched.’[e]

47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire— 48 where

‘Their worm does not die
And the fire is not quenched.’[f]

Luke 12:5
5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him![/b]


Brethren, the above statements of Jesus are very clear and self explanatory. As we can see, the disciples never found it confusing hence they did not ask him for explanations on this statements as they did in things they didnt understand.
ANYBODY HERE OR IN YOUR CHURCH THAT SAYS HE WANTS TO EXPLAIN IT FOR YOU, THE PERSON NA WAYO OOOOOO. Carry your two legs run commot from the person. Period. God bless you.

God bless you in abundance sir!!

;P

truthislight: You are repeating soul two times.

Body + spirit = soul.

You are saying man is "soul + soul".

This is what the bible says:

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." (Genesis 2:7).
.............

Read ^ slowly till you understand.

The same way Paul repeated it twice (including hebrew4:12). So I should accept your hypothesis and ignore Paul's teaching??. Sorry, I will pass on that

truthislight: The refuse dump was sustain by fire.

That fire was the symbolism he was warning people about.

Complete destruction of "body and soul in fire".

God's destruction is "body and soul in fire".

Fire symbolises a destruction caused by God.

Anything that is thrown into this 'Fire' in the bible is permanently destroyed.

Permanent destruction it is since there is no one else that can undo it.

That 'fire' shows the difference between Adamic death and a death caused by God.

The refuse dump was sustained by fire, the refuse no dey burn?. Sir, are you in anyway related to ali baba or AY? You are a talented comedian o

truthislight: You see your life ?

At this point you yet dont know one of the rules governing the study of the bible and understanding it ?

That it is a little here of the scripture and a little there like paul and Jesus did ?

How then can you be right with what you belief ?

I still don't get the point you are trying to make sir

frosbel: As per bolded , I guess you missed the first page, go back and review.

On your part, kindly answer these 2 simple questions if you may :

1. Can we have bible verses that support your concept of 2 hells and the immortality of the soul of MAN.

2. If a MAN dies and his Soul goes to Hell ( assuming he was a sinner ) , where does his spirit go to ?

despite I never spoke about 2 hells here (point to any), I can give you a load of provable details on abraham bosom, hades and tartarus but the most important thing is there is HELL!

Man is a spirit, he has a soul and lives in a body. Man is created in the exact likeness of God and God is immortal.

Gen 1:26-27

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Infact, man is just a little lower to God and God is immortal.

Psalm 8:5
New Living Translation (©2007)
Yet you made them only a little lower than God and crowned them with glory and honor

1 Corinthians 2:10-11 (NET)
10 God has revealed these to us by the Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11 For who among men knows the things of a man except the man’s spirit within him?

Soul is the distinguishing element that prevent us from being homogeneous beings, what distinguish your (spirit) from mine is your soul which is your identity. Like you can separate light from the sun, the light is the identity of the sun, so is the soul and spirit only the word of God separates the two

Hebrew 4:12
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Hence all the totality of the sinful man will be thrown into hell.

frosbel: is the KJV the only authoritative version of the bible ?

No, it is the commonest. What version are you using?

frosbel: As per bolded , I guess you missed the first page, go back and review.

On your part, kindly answer these 2 simple questions if you may :

1. Can we have bible verses that support your concept of 2 hells and the immortality of the soul of MAN.

2. If a MAN dies and his Soul goes to Hell ( assuming he was a sinner ) , where does his spirit go to ?

Frosbel, before I respond, do you by your second question accept that man is made up of the spirit, soul and body?

JMAN05: Superior. Satan and his demons were cast out even after the first century. Rev. 1:1; 12:7-10.

JMAN, is your bible a KJV?. I can't find first century in mine

frosbel: By placing souls in heaven or hell after death , we undermine the resurrection , because after all what is the purpose of the resurrection if we receive our rewards after death.

Until we accept that there is only one physical death , one final resurrection and one final judgement , we will continue to be deceived and deceive others with these platonic Greek ideas that crept in unawares for the purpose of paganising Christianity and misplacing the hope of believers.

Bible verses sir!!. We just need to look at what the scriptures says and not personal believes. Bro, tell your friends hell is real and it is a place of suffering for eternity, there is no second chance o!

olumyde: Imagine! So Jesus is warning ppl, to pluck out their eyes if necessary so that they will not be thrown into "a refuse dump outside the wall of Jerusalem...lol

That is the gospel according to St. Truthislight for you. Very ridiculous and yet he is basing his eternity on this!!

truthislight: "Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:" (Isaiah 28:9-10).

And what exactly is your point

rabzy: And to support what was said above by jaman. Jesus said in john 12v31 that there is a judging of d world and the ruler of this world will be cast out. That's an event for the future.the revelation of John was a confirmation of the prophesy. t

A prophesy which made reference to past occurrence. Devil's defeat is in the past eg Let's agree you got married 2 weeks ago (past event) and I now prophesied your wife will give birth to a triplet in 9 months time(future event). Those that make the two events (your marriage and triplet) a future event prophesied?