₦airaland Forum

Nobody is answering the questions in the OP.

Yahweh was dealing with the Israelite differently even at the time of Abraham as there is no record of Israelites coming to Mecca to perform islamic rituals. At what time did Yahweh approve islamic worship for the Israelites?

Why would anybody think Abraham established Kaaba for the Arabs and God established Jewish religion for the Israelites at the same time?

ibtz:
THE QURAN IS A MIRACLE BECAUSE IT WAS GIVEN TO AN UNLEARNED MAN WHO COULD NOT READ NOR WRITE. HOW DO YOU EXPECT AN UNLEARNED PERSON TO WRITE OR A BOOK OR THAT TRANSCENDS TIME. A BOOK THAT COVERED ALL ASPECTS OF LIFE. BIOLOGY, GEOGRAPHY.ETC. A BOOK THAT REMAINS UNCHANGED FOR 1400 YS. PLEASE I WOULD ADVISE TO JUST PICK IT UP ONE DAY AND SEE FOR YOURSELF.

How many of the earlier prophets were learned?

You don't need to be learned before you receive God's revelation. Therefore Quran is not a miracle because Muhammad was unlearned.

ibtz:
HEALING WITH ZAMZAM WATER IS IT NOT A MIRACLE? OR YOUR HEALING WITH YOUR HOLY WATER IS NOT CONSIDERED AS MIRACLE

Zamzam well was dug by Mutaleb, Muhammad's grandfather, who was an idolater. How would Muhammad recommend water made by an idolater as a miracle in islam?

I don't believe holy water.

Why Is Jesus Believed As A Prophet In Islam?

Muslims define islam as "submission to the will of Allah. They also define a muslim as one who submits to the will of Allah.

Even though the Qur'an claims that all prophets were muslims because of the definition it gave to islam, none of those prophets was told by Yahweh that his religion was islam and that he was a muslim, neither did the prophets themselves ever acknowledged they were muslims. This goes to prove that there was no islam before Muhammad, otherwise all prophets, Jesus and the Apostles would have mentioned it or why would they be called muslims without their knowledge and after they had gone?

Is the definitions of islam and muslim not coined to include all those who believe in God?

Is it not an attempt to make believe that Allah, Muhammad's and muslims' god is also the God of prophets in Israel by calling them muslims?

Why would the Quran call Moses, a Jew who led the Jews away from Egypt a muslim?

Do you still call today's Jews muslims as they still believe what they believed at the time of Moses?

At the time Moses was the leader of the Jews, Kaaba and the Arabs were already in existence and the worship of Allah was ongoing by pagans and doing all the rituals, which muslims adopted as islamic worship till today. There is no doubt in the fact that Moses and the Jews were on their journey to Canan under the guide of Yahweh and they didn't recognize those rituals that was ongoing in Mecca.

This shows Allah was being worshipped differently in Mecca when Yahweh was dealing with the Israelites differently on their way to the promised land, Canaan. The big question is: At what point in history did Yahweh and Allah became the same Being? Or at what point did Yahweh adopt Islamic rituals as his own rituals?

Doesn't the fact that the Jews under Moses didn't take part in islamic rituals in Mecca show they were not muslims by Islamic standard?

Why would Yahweh not enjoin islamic rituals on the Israelites if he is the same Allah of the muslims?

Rashduct4luv ]


Miracles should not be a cornerstone of faith. Even if you claim the final Prophet did no miracles, the divine revelation he was given was the greatest miracle of all.

Good to notice that you have withdrawn your earlier claim that Muhammad did some miracles. Anyway, you have no choice but to withdraw in the face of overwhelming evidences. I hope other muslims here will take note of that and stop making false claims.

How many sick People did Moses prayed for? Solomon, David, Adam, Noah,...Even Abraham the father of Faith? Does this change their Prophethood? The Prophet of Islam was not sent for miracles but to instill faith in faithless people. This reasoning is why people still patronise native doctors. Miracle has replaced faith!

Points of correction:
- Moses didn't need to pray for the sick as the Israelites he was leading were never sick because God's protection was mighty upon them. There was no occasion a sick person was brought to Moses for healing.
- Solomon was not a prophet but a king.
- David was same as Solomon
- Adam, Noah and even Abraham were never challenged to heal the sick, if you must call them prophets. But Muhammad had that challenge but couldn't prove his prophethood.

I still don't know why you are still talking about miracles since native doctors, magicians and false prophets can also do miracles. Stop being a miracle peddler. You can read this again.

What native doctors, magicians and false prophets do is magic. Only God's supernatural work is called miracle.

Do we have to discard God's miracles because Satan counterfeits them?

It again boils down to the question: why do muslims pray when they are not expecting God's supernatural intervention, otherwise known as miracle? You have not answered the question yet.

Matthew 7:21-23 English Standard Version (ESV)

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Who is the Father in heaven? Allah?

Those who call Jesus Lord only with their mouths but without their hearts and deed are being referred to in your Biblical qoute. Not all Christians are
true Christ followers.

Rashduct4luv:
Truthmans 2012 i hope you won't run away from the truth now!

Prophet Muhammad did several miracles which are enormous, lifechanging and positively relevant to the human race! A simple google search or wikipedia search would have given you a clue.

A few of the Miracles are list for you

1.Quran - The revelation of the Quran is considered by Muslims to be Muhammad's greatest miracle[5][6][7] and a miracle for all times, unlike the miracles of other prophets, which were confined to being witnessed in their own lifetimes.[8]

2. Splitting of the moon
3. Isra and Mi'raj (Night Journey) and he was given the prayer as Muslims pray till this day!
4. According to Ali ibn Sahl Rabban al-Tabari, Muhammad's success and victory against his enemies was one of his miracles.[9] Similarly, many modern Muslim historians believe Muhammad's greatest miracles were his worldly accomplishments, in a short time span, in various fields (such as the religious, social, proselytising, political, military and literary spheres) and "the transformation of the Arabs from marauding bands of nomads into world conquerors."[10][11]
4. On several occasions he provided food and water supernaturally.[12]
5. He comforted a palm tree that was crying and upset after he stopped leaning on it during his sermons.[12]
6. He caused two trees to move at his command.[12]
7. Prophecies made by him.
8. His migration from Mecca to Medina.[13]

and check some others here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracles_of_Muhammad


And to summarize my point for you, a good Muslim wouldn't bother about miracle as you interpret it. The essence of a religion is having peace of mind both here and in the hereafter and not seeking for miracles up and down. If you are well-versed with Islamic healing you would have heard about "Ruqya'' which is healing through reciting authentic prayers from Qur'an, hadiths and some herbs, etc of which you mentioned some. This has been proven worldwide to cure people from magic, evil spirits, diseases, etc. A simple search would have enlighten you!

And even false prophets can do miracles!

JUST ACCEPT THIS FROM YOUR BIBLE

Matthew 7:21-23 English Standard Version (ESV)


I Never Knew You

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

ISLAM IS TOTAL SUBMISSION TO THE WILL OF ALLAH

What is a miracle?

A miracle is God's intervention in the affairs of man following his (man's) request.

Qur'an cannot be considered a miracle as a revelation. There had been many revelations to God's prophets, which were not considered a miracle. It is for want of miracles you consider the Quran a miracle.

Your claim that Muhammad performed some miracles is far from the truth. This is the testimony of people around at his time:

Qur'an 13:07
“And the Unbelievers say: "Why is not a sign sent down to him from his Lord?" But thou art truly a warner, and to every people a guide.”

If he did all those things you said, the people would not make such a statement.

Muhammad himself said he was not given power for miracles, I therefore wonder why today's muslims ascibe some to him:

Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 92, Number 379
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "There was no prophet among the prophets but was given miracles because of which people had security or had belief, but what I was given was the Divine Inspiration which Allah revealed to me. So I hope that my followers will be more than those of any other prophet on the Day of Resurrection."

As in the OP, nowhere was Muhammad seen praying for the sick, he would instead recommend material substances for them. That is not the work of a prophet.

If Muhammad didn't pray to solve people's problem, why would today's muslims pray to get their problems solved. Why do you pray as you are not expecting miracle?

1stMD:
Muhammad's Migration from Makkah to Madinah: Prophesied in the Bible?

Habakkuk 3:3 speaks of God (God's help) coming from Te'man (an Oasis North of Madinah according to J. Hasting's Dictionary of the Bible), and the holy one coming from Paran. That holy one who was under persecution migrated from Paran (Makkah) to be received enthusiastically in Madinah was none but prophet Muhammad. Indeed the incident of the migration of the prophet and his persecuted followers is vividly described in Isaiah 21:13-17. That section foretold as well about the battle of Badr in which the few ill-armed faithful miraculously defeated the "mighty" men of Ke'dar, who sought to destroy Islam and intimidate their own folks who turned to Islam.

This is a complete Bible misinterpretation.

Check out for details here:

http://www.answering-islam.org/Index/P/paran.html

I have observed many times that mods here are apt to put anything that talks against a Church or a pastor in the front page and the same is not done for anti-islam threads. In fact, anti-islam thread are often deleted. Why the prejudice?

I think a popular forum like this should not take side.

I doubt if this thread will not be deleted as usual.

Amoto94:
The Moon symbol was popularized by the Ottomans and later adopted by majority of the Muslims in error.

Why would you say it was adopted in error? If it was an error, why has it not been corrected for years? The fact that it was adopted by the majority and in fact by all shows it was not in error.

Who Chose Moon As Islamic Symbol? The question is simple and direct but nobody seems to know the answer. Why na?

Mazeed:
You see, what you should understand here is this, we Muslims don't worship the moon it is only that the moon is significant in aspect of our worship, for instance; there are two standard way we use to begin and end our fast and the first one is that for the fact that we Muslims have our lunar calendar we do not fast nor end our fast unless and until the moon is sighted and if the moon is not seen then that previous month before the month of Ramadan would have to completed as 30 days. So when we now begin the fast the same procedure has to repeated before we break the fast for that month. To buttress more on it Islamic months are either 29 or 30 depending on when the moon is sighted. So we Muslims don't worship the moon and the symbol of Islam is not the moon or the star. The symbol of Islam is what Allah has describe in the Quran; (48:29) Muhammad is Allah's Messenger, and those who are with him are firm with the unbelievers but compassionate with one another. You see them occupied in bowing and prostrating and in seeking Allah's bounty and good pleasure. They are distinguished from others by the marks of prostration on their faces. Thus are they described in the Torah. And their parable in the Gospel is that of a tilth that puts forth its shoot, then strengthens it so that it becomes stout and stands firmly on its stem. This is a sight pleasing to the sowers and one by which the unbelievers will be enraged. As for those who believe and do righteous deeds, Allah has promised them forgiveness and a great reward.

Friend, thank you for taking your time to write the above post. It shows how zealous you are for God. But there is what is known as "faith and truth". Unfortunately, many people have strong faith in what is not the truth.

No one is accusing you of worshiping the moon. But since many pagans worshipped the moon and had moon as their symbol, it is just inappropriate for God's people to also have the same symbol for the true God who hates paganism. How could the true God tolerate a symbol the pagans use for their idol? Worshippers of Satan (pagans) should not have anything in common with worshippers of God, isn't that right? Then, why the common moon symbol between Muslims and pagans?

The Quran I cited above confirms that what pilgrims do in Mecca was the custom of the pagans. There are many other hadiths that support it. It is not said to be the custom of Abraham and Ishmael who Muslims say were the initiators of the rituals. If islamic rituals were done for God by Abraham and Ishmael, I tell you the truth, it would not be possible for pagans to perform the same rituals for their idols. You can not worship God and idols the same way. Idols cannot withstand the power and authority in true God's worship.


Besides, Abraham lived in Israel with Sarah, Isaac and Jacob. In fact, the Jews are descendants of Abraham. We are not told where Abraham directed them to go to Mecca to perform islamic rituals. If it is true Abraham initiated islamic rituals in Mecca, is it not reasonable that he should direct the other members of his family to worship Allah in Mecca islamically? You might have also noticed that none of the prophets in the Bible visited Kaaba for worship. Had Kaaba been built by Abraham for all mankind, would he not direct the Israelites to go there for worship? Nowhere, Bible, Qur'an or hadith make us to know that the Israelites were coming to Kaaba for worship, why?

If you want to know more about how Muslims rituals are the same as pagan worship, just click:

https://www.nairaland.com/2287893/allah-loves-pagans-hates-jews

To crown it all, the Quran confirms that islamic rituals they do in Mecca is the custom of the pagans and not the custom of Abraham and Ishmael:

[Qur'an 2:158 Pickthal] Lo! (the mountains) As-Safa and Al-Marwah are among the indications of Allah. It is therefore no sin for him who is on pilgrimage to the House (of Allah) or visiteth it, to go around them (as the pagan custom is). And he who doeth good of his own accord, (for him) lo! Allah is Responsive, Aware

Why would the true God say it is no sin to continue with the custom of the pagans, when he had once said he should not be worshipped like pagans worship their gods?

Mazeed:
Point of correction; Islam is already a symbolic religion from Allah by our way of unique form of worship, and mind you Allah said; {وَمِنْ آيَاتِهِ اللَّيْلُ وَالنَّهَارُ وَالشَّمْسُ وَالْقَمَرُ ۚ لَا تَسْجُدُوا لِلشَّمْسِ وَلَا لِلْقَمَرِ وَاسْجُدُوا لِلَّهِ الَّذِي خَلَقَهُنَّ إِن كُنتُمْ إِيَّاهُ تَعْبُدُونَ} 41:37) And of His Signs are the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. Do not prostrate yourselves before the sun, nor before the moon, but prostrate yourselves before Allah Who created them, if it is Him that you serve. [فصلت : 37]

The questions are: why the choice of moon as Islamic symbol, which had been in use by idolaters in the various parts of the world before islam?

Why are there so many similarities in islamic worship in Mecca and pagan worship the world over?

God specifically stated that He should not the worshiped the same ways pagans worship their gods (Deut. 12:31). Why then are Muslims worshiping Allah like pagans worship their idols?

The rituals that are being done in islam are not known or done by God:s prophets who lived after Abraham in the Bible, why such rituals in islam, which also tally with pagan worship: Buddhists, Hindus, and other pagan worship the world over?

That Abraham and Ishmael initiated islamic rituals in Mecca is unacceptable. Was it Abraham and Ishmael who also initiated it for the Hindus, Buddhists and other pagans everywhere? Why must Allah be worshipped like pagans worship their gods?

Please also note that when
circumambulating in Mecca, the way worshippers tie their clothes is the exact way Ogbonis, Ifa and other traditional Yoruba worshippers tie their clothes too when worshipping their gods.

Circumambulation is to go in circles around a particular object. In Islam, worshippers and pilgrims do this around the Ka'aba at Mecca. Pre-Islamic pagans used do it to please the moon god Hubal, the 360 deities and Allah (who was merely one among the many deities worshipped there). Muhammad himself used to do it, even before the 360 idols inside the Ka'aba were removed.

Judaism and Christianity (the religions of those who are considered People of the Book) do not practice ritual circumambulation to please God. Two other faiths which do are Hinduism and Buddhism, are eligions older than Islam and accused by Islam of “paganism” and practicing idolatry.

Why would Abraham and Ishmael be practising in Mecca the same thing the Hindus and Buddhists were doing to their gods?

Then, how true could it be that Abraham and Ishmael were the originators of the Islamic rituals in Mecca, which were not known in Judaism and Christianity that existed before it?

Why should Allah be worshipped in the way of the Hindus and Buddhists and again have moon symbol like other pagan religions?

Let's leave religious sentiments apart and be objective for once.

lexiconkabir:
اعوذ بالله ان اكون من الجاهلين

No answers !!!!

Edenoscar:
What are the mancions made of, or are gates and mansion the same thing?

I don't know. You can know only if you have the opportunity to get there. We can't know everything about God, we are limited to what He revealed to us.



Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For we know that surely this our bodily house that is in The Earth will be destroyed; but there is a building for us that is from God, a house which is not by the work of hands, in Heaven for eternity (2,For. 5:1).

lexiconkabir:
يا ايها الناس اعبدوا ربكم الذي خلقكم والذين من قبلكم لعلكم تتقون

Readers would now know you have no point.

But one thing is certain: you can't worship an idol believing it is God and make heaven. You have no excuse before God as the truth has been made known to you.

Edenoscar:
hmm mansions made with bricks.or metal that are found on earth, Will there be dangote cement?

And the twelve gates were twelve pearls, each of the gates made of a single pearl, and the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass (Rev. 21:21).

lexiconkabir:
ومن ءايٰته الّيل و النهار و الشمس و القمر لا تسجدوا للشمس و لا للقمر و سجدوا لله الذي خلقهن ان كنتم اياه تعبدون

Wh did you answer in Arabic questions asked in English? What are you hiding?

Who chose moon symbol for Islam?

Why the choice of moon symbol for islam since idolaters of various countries had been using it before Islam?

You often claim the various pagan rituals done in Mecca today were what Abraham and Ishmael were doing before pagans hijacked it, which prophet Muhammad restored to Islam. Why is the moon symbol which was the symbol of various idolaters outside of Saudi Arabia and inside it adopted as Islamic symbol? Why the compatibility of pagan rituals and moon symbol with Islam?

I want your answer in English please. Thank you.

marshalcarter:
m a Christian man

What is your take as a Christian?

Why is nobody answering the questions posed by the op?

Could it be Yahweh the God of the Bible who seriously warned against moon worship as stated in the op that would still approve of moon symbol for muslims?

Going by the op, it should be reasonable for anyone to conclude that Yahweh and Allah are not the same Being, otherwise Allah would not have approved what Yahweh hated. Then, who is Yahweh and who is Allah?

Antina:
What is this one saying?

You mean you can't understand simple English statements?

Medknight:
They are not mine...If you are curious: https://islamic-life-forum..com.eg/2016/12/polygamy-in-christianity_21.html

How could God say it is a must for man to commit adultery and claim to have fixed it so. This means man has no choice but commit it. Then, what justification does such a God have to punish those who commit it, after all, he created man to commit it?

Empiree:
You mean to tell me the dude that DID NOT DIE PEACEFULLY on the CROSS brought PEACE?

Well, this is what i read from your "holy book"


"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. ◄ Matthew 10:34 ►


So what peace are you talking about?

Jesus says my peace I give to you my peace I leave with you, not as the world gives, give I unto you (John 14:27).

Mathew 10:34 is talking about how those who believe in him will suffer persecution. Of a truth we see how the disciples were persecuted.

What war did Jesus fight?

Medknight


No contradiction, actually both ask to lower gaze.

How is there no contradiction? One says you must commit adultery of the eyes, the other says you mustn't.

In fact there are 40 polygamists in the Bible! Both the Old and New Testaments say nothing about forbidding polygamy and in fact the Old Testament even allows it and sets laws regarding it.

Let's see your quotes.

Empiree:
Your same Bible said this


Ecclesiastes 3:8


"a time to love, and a time to hate; a time for war, and a time for peace."

Why do you still war after Jesus had brought peace? Why did Islam return the world into crisis?

RABIUSHILE04:
You gat to be kidding me, you for real?

I'm not suprised though, ppl just dey age ni, dey grow grey hair, but dem no grow sense.

I pray God gives them sense plenty!

What sense does it make for your god making a woman's private part his symbol of worship? People spend a huge sum of money on pilgrimage to Mecca to touch and kiss a prototype of a woman's Virgina. What can be more immoral than that? Even the Hindus are not that immoral.

Empiree:
You shot yourself in the foot. By your definition of who "true" christians are, if we are to figure out the percentage, christians are probably just 2% of world population. Why?. Because most filthy things in the world today are executed by christian nations including Vatican which breeds bunch of pedophilias. So, since you said anyone who doesn't do or do what Jesus didnt do is NOT christian. Then, MOST christians today aren't christians. FULL STOP




This MUST be boring heaven of Christians. It means all christians are hell-bound since no man or woman will be in there. Muslims however dont deceive themselves. We know the reality. If you are going to be like "Angel in heaven", how the heck most christian nations are filled with filthy sexual activities?. From Hollywood to Nollywood, to Bollywood and all TV, radio and newspaper activities filled with anti-christ activities. On the pages of newspaper, tv and ALL entertainment industries are filthy and controlled christians. DENY it

There is no Christian nation. Not every individual in a nation accepts Christ. It is only those who accept Christ as their Lord are Christians and not the inhabitants of a nation.

But for a god to go to the extent of making the private part of a woman his symbol, it has many implications on who he truly is.

So many irrelevant talks.

No one is talking about why a god would make the unclothedness of a woman his symbol.

RABIUSHILE04:
Akhee, you should stoop to their level by abusing their "orisa". They're DIMWITTED crackheads.

Just give CORRECT evidence for the serious minded readers on this FORUM, no dey drag with them. Alai ni nkan se ni won, na y dem dey stagnant for one place!!!

When will you guys ever reason?

Can't you pause for a moment and brood on why your god would choose to make his symbol (black stone) like a woman's private part? Is that not the reason he enjoined you to have many wives and promised you numerous virgins in aljannah? Why sex sex and sex like rabbits? It is only the queen of heaven that could do that. One of the gifts of the Devil is indiscriminate sex as they have it in occult societies.

One thing so certain is the fact that the true God would never make his symbol like the private part of a woman. Period.

Empiree:
See why you make no sense?

You simply dodged his question.

Let's wait for intelligent christians to answer it. You can step aside and have a good day.

Something must be wrong with your reasoning. I said multiple sex as you do in islam is very, very bad and yet you kept saying I dodged the question. Na wa for you o !!!!

Empiree:
What is this none sense, hun?. You did not answer his question. His question is VERY SIMPLE and CONCISE. Is S!eX good or bad?


YES


or



NO


?

So you need to be spoonfed?

Unlimited sex as in Islam is very bad and ungodly. God would never have recommended multiple sex. He never did in the past and never will do.

It was in his power to have created many wives for Adam, but he never did. Those people who had many wives in the OT were not instructed or enjoined to do so. Jesus taught of one wife as God did in the case of Adam. Why would that same God enjoin muslims to have multiple sexual partners, not only in this world but also in aljannah? Something is wrong somewhere.