₦airaland Forum

@Denex,

We just had an interesting discussion that spanned through four pages regarding 911 without anyone attacking another's personality. I remember cautioning k0be when he was going in that direction. The issues there are just as passionate if not more passionate than the one under discussion here.

I have been following the discussion without contributing. I felt the quality of the debate was really good until Shango's piece which I just had to comment on. Bottomline is that issues can be discussed without attacking people. That people disagree with you is no reason to call them idiots. And calling people who disagree with you idiots is bullshit, or do you disagree?

@Denex,

I make no apologies for dishing it out to people the way they first dish out to me. In most cases, I get to warn them first as I have warned you on some occasions where you throw your sly invectives at me. When their water pass garri, I will not hold back but return every fire with ammunition!

In any case, are you blind to the degrading manner he was posting or you just like to overlook bullshits that further your theories?

@Shango,

I could care less about the Middle East, but I bet you idiots would be singing a different tune if he unleashed his freedom spreading democracy agenda to West Africa.

You are way out of line when you come on a public forum and all you can do is spew out expletives at those who think different than you. Were you expecting only people here that you can indoctrinate? I often wonder how people are so blind to their own hypocrisy while condemning the same in others. Please be civil. How can you learn from others when u already conclude you are right.

@big nero,

we are actually suppeior to these people

This statement suggests you are no better than the people you want to correct! Or do you feel uneasy because they mirror your exact image?!

@donnie,

I know you will come out again to in your usual manner to debunk what i have just said.

You bet I will. Thank God for the knowledge He gave so we don't get deceived by magicians using christian terminologies.

Are you now validating the ministry of T.B. Joshua? Are you that blind or just plain gullible? Are these the evidences provided by your Pastor? Did you think any through in light of divine revelation? O my God, if this is what Christ Embassy has turned to, then things are much worse than I thought. How my heart weeps and breaks for the many who are being "spoiled" in that church.

I will not address the many trash you wrote but only address the scriptures yu refered to. That is my passion: the defence and propagation of the gospel.

1. That John and some other OT prophets were filled with the Holy Ghost from their mother's womb does not make it a NT teaching. I hope you know the Gospels are really a part of the OT. In this day and age, the only way you get the Spirit of God is through faith in the Lord Jesus. Any spirit you receive apart from that is not that of Jesus Christ. There are many spirits in the world and they will gladly oblige you when given the chance. Please ask Muhammad! Your boldness at creating doctrines to fit una lifestlye don pass be careful! It seems some of you have gone beyond the state where you can be taught and we can only hope God will reach you when we give ourselves to prayers.

2.The age of acountability Paul mentioned is common to all flesh and not those that have the calling into the five-fold ministries. Do you realise you are only trying to find scriptures to defend the indefensible? Can't you see the loophole in your effort? You are altogether telling us by that token that Joshua did not need Christ since he never came out of that age of accountability? If he did, at what point did he realise he was a sinner and needed the forgiveness and salvation of Christ? Please let us know!

You talk about the fact that he attended Anglican school but fail to mention the muslim schools he attended too. You also fail to tell us that in Joshua's church (I don't know if he took it down now), is an inscription beside the potrait of Jesus on the cross saying: "There is no deity (God) but Allah". This is a direct quote from the Qu'ran. Is this the man you call a prophet? Whose Prophet if I may ask and what have you seen in his ministry for you to tag him a Prophet?

@Pillarbeck,

Funny how your hypocrisy screams through your posts. On the one hand you say we should not judge, and on the other, you condemn some people to the tribulation. Talk about speaking from both sides of your mouth.

If indeed you are a Propetess as you claimed, haven't you learnt that even that which you speak must be judged by others before it is accepted as truth? Or how else are we to discern those who are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ, if we do not weigh up their fruits to that revealed by divine revelation?

I have no doubt that you are self delusioned, calling yourself a Prophetess and validating the ministry of T.B. Joshua. Even Oyahks who has turned his back on other ministers for the sake of this T.B. Joshua has not so much as claimed that Joshua is born again. Oyahks keeps dancing around that question when probed because he knows better. But for whatever reason (methinks its money), he can't distant himself from Joshua. How could he claim Joshua is born again when Joshua himself claims he was born again from his mother's womb. Is he not laying claim to righteousness apart from Christ's  by that statement?

You need to check that 'spirit' that deceives you into believing you are a Prophetess. Or could it be that you are a member of the Synagogue? That will explain a lot!

@topic,

I see nothing unusual with the ban by NTA. Afterall, they say nothing about televising miracles. Rather, they want the miracles to be verified! Is that too much to ask? Is it too much to print in the newspapers, the people who were supposedly healed with their names and addresses so those who live around them could testify to the truth or otherwise of the claims?

Even Jesus subjected His miracles to the verification of the authorities of His days. May I ask what these modern-days miracle healers in the name of Jesus got to hide?

Don't get me wrong. I believe in miracles and I have been a recipient of many. However, when we are being told about a particular manifestation of the Spirit of God which is contrary to what we see in the Bible, we are bound to ask questions. What I've seen on Oyahks "Atmosphere for miracles" is not what I see in my Bible. They are world's apart!

@Pillarbeck,
I do not have the time to go into arguments with you. You have only being here briefly and I already see the way you are using the scriptures unscripturally to guarantee a "don't ask, don't tell" policy you have adopted in the way of judge not my annointed.

Anyone who turns people away from Christ is a false prophet. Anyone who leads people to Christ is a true prophet.

By that token, are we to refer to Mohammed as a Prophet? Perhaps you should have told Apostle Paul not to cast out the demon that followed him around pointing at him as a true messenger of Christ who teaches the way of salvation!

By the way, I can't recall if anyone here refered to Oyahks as a false prophet. Reather, T.B. Joshua, his mentor is the false prophet while Oyahks is a compromised Christian.

@mamajama,

The issue is the laws of the land. Was the law of the land violated? Yes! Is there any section of the law that says the FG has the priviledge to enter into a contract that violates this particular law? Apparently No. If we do not obey the laws of the land in little things, we will definitely raise our noses against the bigger ones.

@morayo15,

Why is it so hard to talk about God,
but so easy to talk about sex?

The same reason why it is so easy for you to put a 'sexy' picture on your profile instead of one depicting your faith!

@denex,

please could you explain that surplus? I'm interested in learning new things. Explain how refusal of OPEC to sell oil to the US will lead to surplus and reduction in crude oil prices.
A mere announcement by OPEC that it may stop selling crude to the US will send crude prices spiralling above $100/barrel. That is just an announcement, let alone when it is effected.
OPEC will not have any problems with the EU and the EU will not want to have any problems with OPEC.
So please, I'd like to hear this whole "syrplus" theory.

The U.S. imports about 10.1 million barrels/day. About 5.6 million barrels of that is from OPEC. http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/quickfacts/quickoil.html

OPEC on the other hand exports about 25 million barrels/day. That means the U.S. buys about 22% of OPEC’s production. http://www.peakoil.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=13505


Now tell me what happens if your major market is no longer available? The fact is that your revenue goes down, unless of course you raise the price such that you now sell the remaining 78% to offset the unavailable market.

In other words, the rest of the world will bear the brunt of it as much as the US will. And may I remind you that Nigeria and most of these OPEC countries who import their fuel and petroleum products are going to be paying big time for them. Why would an exporter of refined products sell to any other country for less than they can sell it in the US? If due to the boycott, petrol sells for $5/liter in the US, why will I go sell it for $1/liter in Naija? I’d rather divert it to the US and make good money.

So you see, the world economy will be hit as a whole and not just the US.

@denex,

It was you who claimed that refusal of OPEC to sell oil to the US would cause some kind of surplus.

Don't be an artfulf dodger. My statement was based on this one you made earlier: "By the way, Nigeria will not suffer economically by selling oil preferably to Indian and Chinese Buyers. In fact we will make more money because shortage in the US will cause a worldwide rise of more than 20% in Oil price."

You need to explain what you mean by that as I have simplified my reasoning with the post: "Can you please explain to us how OPEC will fare better if their biggest consumer no longer does business with them? Doesn't that mean there will be syrplus oil in the market than needed and will eventually lead to a crash in price?"

@denex,

I am the one who should ask for lectures from you on how the refusal of sale to the US but rather to the 2 other major oil producers will cause a surplus.

How can you tell me to provide proof for your claims? Things don't work that way. When you make a claim, you should be able to back it up.

@denex,

That's why I believe that if the government is telling the truth, then somebody should go to jail.

It's unfortunate that planes crashed into the WTC it's not the designers' fault. But that the building collapsed of a plane crash when they had made testaments that it couldn't, that's plain criminal.

I don't think anything criminal was done. You can only send someone to jail for criminality. A professional who is found wanting may lose his licence, and in this case the regulating body is not the government, but the professional body itself.

Now you need to consider the fact also that the building performed as intended for its day to day use. The only way I think you can hold the company liable is if they claimed in their official contract document that no plane can bring the structure down. I trust they were smarter enogh to not sign such a deal. Car dealers too never claim you can't die in an accident despite the technology and safeties they build into their cars. Like I said before, there is nothing man can build that man cannot destroy. As engineers, we can only design in such a way to minimize fatalities and not eliminate them.

@Denex,

But then, if you remember, they did consider the fuel from the planes being dumped into the building causing a fire. Didn't we read this up earlier?

See, the best thing the NIST and the US Government can do is to to declare the collapse of the WTC on the 11th september 2001 as the 8th wonder of the world.

While the possibility that the design company never considered all the factors they claimed they did, I doubted if they considers all the factors acting together as we witnessd on 911.

Did they consider the possibility that the fire coating on the steel will all be knocked off on impact? And I seriously doubt the fact that the punching effect of the plane's impact was considered. How could that have been considered and yet the outer perimeter steel were as slender as can possibly be? The overiding concern at design was on creating a very light-weight structure so they could build the tallest building in the world. The designers do have a lot to hide in my opinion, otherwise, the design calculations would have been made public by now. I guess the fear of litigation is the beginning of self-preservation!

@Denex,

By the way, Nigeria will not suffer economically by selling oil preferably to Indian and Chinese Buyers. In fact we will make more money because shortage in the US will cause a worldwide rise of more than 20% in Oil price.

Can you please explain to us how OPEC will fare better if their biggest consumer no longer does business with them? Doesn't that mean there will be syrplus oil in the market than needed and will eventually lead to a crash in price?

@Davidylan,

I can't remember you writing that Chevron is an EU company. Could it be that some read european to mean European Union? Let's wait and see!

@Aproko,

does that make peter a rock?

That does not make Peter the Rock that Jesus was talking about. Check the greek words for both. Peter means a stone while the rock Jesus mentioned means a rock.

@youngies,

Who cares if the BUSHman is blamed

The problem is that they are not focusing on the real problem. Islam is a very vengeful religion and people are still venging the perceived injustice that Muhammad's kinsmen commited against weach other. That is what is going on here. The cycle of vengeance continues till today.

@Denex,

No where did any one claim the momentum created by the plane is the sole reason why the WTC came crashing down. Rather, it was a combination of factors. The hit had its structural impact and they all added up to bring about that collapse. Here again is the possible concatenation of events as I posted earlier:

In stage 1, the conflagration caused by the aircraft fuel spilled into the structure
causes the steel of the columns to be exposed to sustained temperatures apparently exceeding
800ŽC. The heating is probably accelerated by a loss of the protective thermal insulation of
steel during the initial blast. At such temperatures, structural steel suffers a decrease of
yield strength and exhibits significant viscoplastic deformation (i.e., creep—an increase of
deformation under sustained load). This leads to creep buckling of columns (e.g., Baˇzant
and Cedolin 1991, Sec. 9), which consequently lose their load carrying capacity (stage 2).
Once more than about a half of the columns in the critical floor that is heated most suffer
buckling (stage 3), the weight of the upper part of the structure above this floor can no
longer be supported, and so the upper part starts falling down onto the lower part below the
critical floor, gathering speed until it impacts the lower part. At that moment, the upper
part has acquired an enormous kinetic energy and a significant downward velocity. The
vertical impact of the mass of the upper part onto the lower part (stage 4) applies enormous
vertical dynamic load on the underlying structure, far exceeding its load capacity, even if it
is not heated. This causes failure of an underlying multi-floor segment of the tower (stage 4),
in which the failure of the connections of the floor-carrying trusses to the columns is either
accompanied or quickly followed by buckling of the core columns and overall buckling of the
framed tube, with the buckles probably spanning the height of many floors (stage 5, at right),
and the upper part possibly getting wedged inside an emptied lower part of the framed tube
(stage 5, at left). The buckling is initially plastic but quickly leads to fracture in the plastic
hinges. The part of building lying beneath is then impacted again by an even larger mass
falling with a greater velocity, and the series of impacts and failures then proceeds all the
way down (stage 5).

@mamajama,

there is an old adage to let a sleeping dog sleep. when BUSH went and woke all this people up, now they are all over.

So Bush is to blame for this again. Perhaps he should also be blamed for Rushdie's and Dan Brown's novel too. You guys just give that man too much credit!

@Mamajama,

Muslim people again.  And I thought this is a religion of peace?

Of course it's all in the name of peace. You submit to them or there will be no Peace!

@topic,

It is obvious from this post that "kolo" cases abound in both the 'right' and 'left' of christianity!

@k0be,

To summarize, you're saying the source of the strength of the world trade center is due 100% to the steel?

Absolutely. The concrete are only slabs that transfer the load to trusses which are then transfered to the columns. I'm not sure what the foundation is made up of. It is likely to be piles which can be steel, concrete or a combination of both. Anyway, my emphasis here is on the superstructure!

@k0be,

We do not have to suddenly begin scrutinizing the capability of the building to withstand disaster.  It was well established long before WTC occured that the WTC was built to combat heavy impact.

In my opinion and I believe the same for many engineers, you almost can't build a structure of that magnitude that can withstand the situations that the WTC was subjected to on 911. The emphasis for Architects and Structural Engineers is how to design the structure in such a way that evacuation will not be impeded inspite of the likely loss of the structure. This was not done for the WTC and that makes me wonder if there was ever a real time simulation of such a disaster happening.
In the mean time, here is a section of the link I just provided above with respect to mitigating disaster through design.

Problems of Disaster Mitigation and Design
Designing tall buildings to withstand this sort of attack seems next to impossible. It would
require a much thicker insulation of steel, with blast-resistant protective cover. Replacing
the rectangular framed tube by a hardened circular monolithic tube with tiny windows might
help to deflect much of the debris and fuel from an impacting aircraft sideways, but regardless
of cost, who would want to work in such a building?
The problems appear to be equally severe for concrete columns because concrete heated
to such temperatures undergoes explosive thermal spalling, thermal fracture and disintegra-
tion due to dehydration of hardened cement paste (e.g., Baˇzant and Kaplan 1996). These
questions arise not only for buildings supported on many columns but also for the recent
designs of tall buildings with a massive monolithic concrete core functioning as a tubular
mast. These recent designs use high-strength concrete which, however, is even more sus-
ceptible to explosive thermal spalling and thermal fracture than normal concrete. The use
of refractory concretes as the structural material invites many open questions (Baˇzant and
Kaplan 1996). Special alloys or various refractory ceramic composites may of course function
at such temperatures, but the cost would increase astronomically.
It will nevertheless be appropriate to initiate research on materials and designs that would
postpone the collapse of the building so as to extend the time available for evacuation, provide
a hardened and better insulated stairwell, or even prevent collapse in the case of a less severe

attack such as an off-center impact or the impact of an aircraft containing little fuel.
Lessons should be drawn for improving the safety of building design in the case of lesser
disasters. For instance, in view of the progressive dynamic collapse of a stack of all the
floors of the Ronan Point apartments in the U.K., caused by a gas explosion in one upper
floor (Levy and Salvadori 1992), the following design principle, determining the appropriate
degree of redundancy, should be adopted: If only a certain judiciously specified minority
of the columns or column-floor connections at one floor are removed, the mass that might
fall down from the superior structure must be so small that its impact on the underlying
structure would not cause dynamic overload.

@k0be,

Of what important factor do these questions serve.

Is that an admission that you do not know?

If you feel the answers to the questions you posed would provide convincing answers into the wtc debacle go ahead and provide those answer.

If you can't tell how a structure gets its integrity, how then can you understand how it collapses? The problem is that I have provided these answers over and over again but it seems you either don't get it or you are not even reading the things I have written.

Here is an excerpt from [url]http://www-math.mit.edu/~bazant/WTC/WTC-asce.pdf[/url]. You might want to read up and undedrstand some mathematical analysis of what happened on 911.

In stage 1 (Fig. 1), the conflagration caused by the aircraft fuel spilled into the structure
causes the steel of the columns to be exposed to sustained temperatures apparently exceeding
800ŽC. The heating is probably accelerated by a loss of the protective thermal insulation of
steel during the initial blast. At such temperatures, structural steel suffers a decrease of
yield strength and exhibits significant viscoplastic deformation (i.e., creep—an increase of
deformation under sustained load). This leads to creep buckling of columns (e.g., Baˇzant
and Cedolin 1991, Sec. 9), which consequently lose their load carrying capacity (stage 2).
Once more than about a half of the columns in the critical floor that is heated most suffer
buckling (stage 3), the weight of the upper part of the structure above this floor can no
longer be supported, and so the upper part starts falling down onto the lower part below the
critical floor, gathering speed until it impacts the lower part. At that moment, the upper
part has acquired an enormous kinetic energy and a significant downward velocity. The
vertical impact of the mass of the upper part onto the lower part (stage 4) applies enormous
vertical dynamic load on the underlying structure, far exceeding its load capacity, even if it
is not heated. This causes failure of an underlying multi-floor segment of the tower (stage 4),
in which the failure of the connections of the floor-carrying trusses to the columns is either
accompanied or quickly followed by buckling of the core columns and overall buckling of the
framed tube, with the buckles probably spanning the height of many floors (stage 5, at right),
and the upper part possibly getting wedged inside an emptied lower part of the framed tube
(stage 5, at left). The buckling is initially plastic but quickly leads to fracture in the plastic
hinges. The part of building lying beneath is then impacted again by an even larger mass
falling with a greater velocity, and the series of impacts and failures then proceeds all the
way down (stage 5).

@k0be,

prior to answering these questions

provide the evidence that suggests that the WTC will only be supported by clips once the steel gives in.
also remember that we're not done tackling the issue of the steel which by your accounts was still operating under 50% strength.

also keep in mind that the engineers & scientists responsible for the development of the world trade center have said the building was constructed to withstand heavy damage.

Must be now recycle their reports in order to justify the fall of the building?

If you could answer my questions, you will be able to answer the questions you asked here. If you don't know d answers, I might just feel obliged to educate you on simple structural framing and eventually some structural analysis with some element of structural mechanics!

@k0be,

* With non-explosive-caused collapse there would typically be a piling up of shattering concrete. But most of the material in the towers was converted to flour-like powder while the buildings were falling, he says. "How can we understand this strange behavior, without explosives? Remarkable, amazing - and demanding scrutiny since the US. government-funded reports failed to analyze this phenomenon."

This is absolutely untrue. Not only do you find chunks of concrete slabs, there are sections of steel columns that were left intact. Is it the concrete dusts that they saw that caused them to come to that conclusion? As I said before, your sources have not shown any schorlarship in their submissions. I told you before to think about the role of "pressure" in the scene you witnessed during the collapse. What did you come up with?

* Horizontal puffs of smoke, known as squibs, were observed proceeding up the side the building, a phenomenon common when pre-positioned explosives are used to demolish buildings, he says. (Even I saw pictures of these, I was going to post them earlier till I lost the page).

This is very simple. There are several videos on youtube, please show us a few that proves right this statement. It appears you are so keen to accept anything at face value as long as they align with your position.

* Steel supports were "partly evaporated," but it would require temperatures near 5,000 degrees Fahrenheit to evaporate steel - and neither office materials nor diesel fuel can generate temperatures that hot.[b] Fires caused by jet fuel from the hijacked planes lasted at most a few minutes, and office material fires would burn out within about 20 minutes in any given location, he says. (You said the steel lost its strength, but how do you explain the invisibility of the steel as the building vanished).

Steel evaporate? Who is the olodo that made that statement? Why are you spreading someone else's ignorance on the www? That aside, does explosives cause steel to evaporate? I have said before that the more these folks come up with conspiracies, the more they begin to sound ludicrous. Now we are hearing of steel evaporating. What did it evaporate into? What is the gas called? Now you are cracking me up

* Molten metal found in the debris of the World Trade Center may have been the result of a high-temperature reaction of a commonly used explosive such as thermite, he says. Buildings not felled by explosives "have insufficient directed energy to result in melting of large quantities of metal," Jones says.

My question is this: Is molten metal the by-product of dynamite and steel?

* [b]Multiple loud explosions in rapid sequence were reported by numerous observers in and near the towers, and these explosions occurred far below the region where the planes struck, he says. (are those people just hallucinating)

Possibly. Beside the fact that sections of the building could be falling and causing the noise, please show us from all the footages, where any bright light (a necessary accompanament to explosions) seen. While you are busy looking for that footage, kindly check out youtube again and see that flashes of light alsways accompany detonation.

www.rense.com/general68/advice.htm+violation+of+laws+of+physics+wtc&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us
I hope you won't dimiss these questions.

I trust I have duely answered them and I hope you will answer the questions I tabled too before you recycle other people's vastly ignorant opinions.

@k0be,

According to NIST a building which supported its own weight for 30 years can’t resist the momentum from the collapse even a little.  NIST claims a small portion of the building is enough to result in crushing the rest the building at free fall speed—as if the bottom portion of the building provided no more resistance than the air in the sky. This is called creating your own “scientific reality.”[65]  You can’t ignore fundamental laws of physics simply because they are inconvenient to your theory!  Normally, (although not in Bush science) you are supposed to abandon your theory when it is this easily disproved.

Please don't let us drag the quality of this debate down by slandering personalities. It's being interesting so far!

I want to ask you some questions, the answer to which will tell me what you are unable to see here.
1. How does a steel column come about its strength?
2. What is a steel column's weakest structural property?
3. Looking at the sketch I provided earlier, what do you consider the weakest link of the tower?
4. When the floors are falling? What structural element directly resists the forces?

Please do answer these questions so we can stop going around in circles.

@denex,

I asked this same question regarding the thermite and thermate. Reply was that they might have been used in welding in the 1960s when construction started.

Wetin now denex. Must you add to the words people say in order to justify your position? Who said anything about the materials being used during construction in the 60s? Why the lie now? The thermate was likely used when the steel were being shipped out. It was likely used to cut the steel.

Abeg, I no fit shout!

Please don't.

My own worry is not even the phenomenon of WTC7. I was just totally taken aback when the steel debris was shipped to Asia despite the cries and appeals of the families of victims and also the survivors. Was is that the US government was so desperate to get $10 million that they were so eager to ship this steel to Asia?

Please think for a moment. Why would the US ship to China if they are trying to cover up? Don't you think they will likely ship to a friendly country that will protect their interest? China is not an ally that cares a hoot about the US and since all their allegiace is only to money, they would have given up the "evidence" to the highest bidder. And indeed, there are several rich folks who will pay to lay their hands on those materials if it contains any shred of evidence.

Abeg, make US government rest with all their conspiracy theories and blatant fallacies.

So far, I know no stories coming from the govt. The 911 commision is independent of the govt and even made recommendations that are against the policies of the government.

Next thing they will start selling murder weapons to the highest bidder while the homicide investigation is still on.

Like I said before, I like the way your imagination works. Your ability to cook up convincing fictions is only second to Dan Brown!

Am tired of this their Al Qaeda that has become the dog given a bad name.

I have an idea. Why don't you recommend Al quaida for the next noble peace prize. I'm sure you'll have some followers to endorse such a move.

@k0be,

This is a post on John skilling - Head Structural Engineer for the WTC.
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/design.html
Let us analyze the strength and design of the building.
John Skilling
John Skilling was the head structural engineer for the World Trade Center. In a 1993 interview, Skilling stated that the Towers were designed to withstand the impact and fires resulting from the collision of a large jetliner such as Boeing 707 or McDonald Douglas DC-8.

Our analysis indicated the biggest problem would be the fact that all the fuel (from the airplane) would dump into the building. There would be a horrendous fire. A lot of people would be killed, , The building structure would still be there. 3

A white paper released on February 3, 1964 states that the Towers could have withstood impacts of jetliners travelling 600 mph -- a speed greater than the impact speed of either jetliner used on 9/11/01.

The buildings have been investigated and found to be safe in an assumed collision with a large jet airliner (Boeing 707—DC traveling at 600 miles per hour. Analysis indicates that such collision would result in only local damage which could not cause collapse or substantial damage to the building and would not endanger the lives and safety of occupants not in the immediate area of impact. 4

It appears you are not here to read alternative opinions and learn. I say that because I already addressed this question posted by Denex here: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-66158.64.html#msg1302724 I do not have that much time to be recycling the answers I provided already.

@k0be,

Now let me put this in better perspectives for you by providing some numbers to support my argument above.

Consider a situation where two of the most heavily burnt floors give way and the outer columns begin to bow outward while the floors above them fall. The floor below, with a design capacity of 1,300 ton can under no circumstance support the roughly 45,000 tons of ten floors or more crashing down on those angle clips. The more floors that give way, the higher the load going down while the design capacity of 1,300tons resisting it remain the same.

These are real numbers you need to consider and not just the speculations. You initially claimed the floors fell as if it was a closed system, and when I provided real numbers you turned around to say the lapse in time was still unnaccepable. Are you going to keep changing your story every time you are confronted with facts? Must you be right?