₦airaland Forum

@ajadrage,

Adam was not the first inhabitant of the earth as the chronology of Biblical accounts of creation explains. However, Adam represented mankind in creation and the generality of the god like creatures present during the infancy of mankind.

Adam was not the first inhabitant of the earth, though he was the first human on earth.  The Bible testifies that Lucifer was in Eden, the garden of the Lord at a time that Adam was not yet created. Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

The presence of others like Adam was confirmed when a curse was laid on Cain that none should strike him dead in the course of his sojourning.

This does not prove that those that strike him will be humans. Afterall, fallen angels still walked the earth until the time of Noah when God finally bound them up in chains of darkness. God might have those in mind when He made that pronouncement. Besides, Cain had other brothers and sisters that could strike him dead at that time.

Thus, while closely following the Adamic lineage, the bible applies him as a personification of the promise between God and man

Again, all humans are direct descendants of Adam. Remember that Adam called his wife Eve because she would become the mother of all living. Acts 17:26 is eloquent testimony that mankind came from one source - Adam.  Acts 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

@Drusilla,

If you are being told that being a christian is about prosperity, then you are not being taught true Christianity.

So did you take a vow never to prosper the moment you became a Christian? So if Christianity isn't about prosperity, are we to conclude it is about retrogression? Are you trying to tell us that Christ came, suffered and died so we would remain in abject poverty and never prosper?

@mamajam,

impressive with the gradual decline in his approval ratings.

It is funny how a lot of people make a big deal of Bush's ratings despite the fact that it is almost double that of the Democratic controled congress. http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2006/05/11/bushs-approval-ratings/

@peaxy,

Where will you start, at the night club?

@ D.baddie,

my, my.
This interests me. can I drop a line?

By all means please do so.  

i'm a believer. been so for a long time and I am glad I know the Lord.

I share your joy my brother.

Tithing: 10% of your increase (not income) was a commandment from God to the Jews.

Was Abraham a Jew in the sense of being amongst the 12 brotheres of Isreal?

The old testament really made an issue of it.

That is right!

My forefather, Abraham, gave (not paid) 10% of his spoil (increase, not income) to Melchizedek. This was an act of worship. Not a commandment from God, he recognized the man as Priest of God.

Why the tength?  

One thing to note: this priest blessed Abram before he gave the tithe (genesis: 14:14-20)

We are also blessed of God whether we pay tithe or not. We are blessed by our association in Christ!

I believe one thing, everyone. god does NOT need your tithe to bless you. what is salvation if it isn't free? i do not have to do anything to obtain favor, grace or God's love Jesus' sacrifice: He died so that we who were excluded from the commonwealth of Israel can now be grafted into God' s tree. i did not pay for this. All i had to do was to believe, receive and halleluja! {Mr. D.baddie, welcome to God's family}
Listen, I am a benefactor of god's love not because of anything I have done, but He Himself chose to love me. Why should I now believe that any act of mine will ensure this grace continues? (Romans 8v.32 :" He that spared not His own Son but gave Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give u sall things". i don't have to pay anything to get anything form God. If that were so, I could boast about my achievements. Certainly, I know God never asked anything of me (this is the problem Paul had with the Galatians, read the book), so, no, i can't be forced to "pay" nothing,

Now this is the part I really want to answer in all your submission. It is true that your salvation was and is a gift, yet you had to take some steps (works) to receive it. The whole world is potentially saved, yet not everyone will receive that gift. The only reason why you are saved is because you believed the Gospel and you confessd it while making Jesus your Lord and Saviour! Like salvation, many of God's blessings are conditional though the basis for Him to bless you is already done in Christ. For instance, despite the fact that by His stripes we are healed, many Christians still fall sick because they fail to take hold of this promise through the action of faith! God has also promised to supply all my needs, yet I will go hungry if I do not work!! So you see, our work is based on the finished work of Jesus and not independent of it. We do not expect to be saved by our works but we do expect to be rewarded for it. Paul said we should run to obtain.

Pastors will tell you all sort of stuff (but brethren, i do not believe they are all trying to cheat anyone. they are only preaching what they believe is true) like "robbers of God will go to Hell". c'mon, my salvation's been paid for!

I do not know of any Pastor who preaches this but if any does, they are in error.

So much needs to said, but I'm at the office. My hands are full.

I feel you my brother!

@bari_kade,

Thanks for breathing some fresh air into this issue of tithing. While I have disagreed with TV01 regarding this issue, no doubt he has enriched my knowledge through the process as well. Having said that, I am glad you guys have now "carry go" this discussion to the right forum.

@TV01,

I just want to respond to an issue you raised which bari_kade already dealt with as well.

Sir, that is not a response, that is an act, a work. You turn the chain on it's head, You actually want God to respond to you.

Phillipians 4:5 - Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only. It is obvious that Paul and the Phillipians expect God's response each time they give. Giving can not be separated from receiving except one is not interested in going through the entire cycle. When you sow, you will reap, when you give you will receive, when you lend to God, He will repay you and when you cast your bread on the waters, you will find it after many days. These are biblical principles that bear eloquent testimony that expecting God to respond to our giving is just doing what the Bible says.

This I believe was a big motivation for the early Christians who sold their lands for the benefit of the church. Jesus already promised them multiple of that in return here in this lifetime! Matthew 10:29 And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's, 30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life. These disciples knew that you can't beat God at giving. The more they gave, the more they received.

@topic,

I am still waiting to hear from donnie so we can sort out the personality of this man called Melchizedek!

@bari_kade,

Thanks for breathing some fresh air into this issue of tithing. While I have disagreed with TV01 regarding this issue, no doubt he has enriched my knowledge through the process as well. Having said that, I am glad you guys have now "carry go" this discussion to the right forum.

@TV01,

I just want to respond to an issue you raised which bari_kade already dealt with as well.

Sir, that is not a response, that is an act, a work. You turn the chain on it's head, You actually want God to respond to you.

Phillipians 4:5 - Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only. It is obvious that Paul and the Phillipians expect God's response each time they give. Giving can not be separated from receiving except one is not interested in going through the entire cycle. When you sow, you will reap, when you give you will receive, when you lend to God, He will repay you and when you cast your bread on the waters, you will find it after many days. These are biblical principles that bear eloquent testimony that expecting God to respond to our giving is just doing what the Bible says.

This I believe was a big motivation for the early Christians who sold their lands for the benefit of the church. Jesus already promised them multiple of that in return here in this lifetime! Matthew 10:29 And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's, 30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life. These disciples knew that you can't beat God at giving. The more they gave, the more they received.

babs787,

Ekabo! Have you been on sabbatical? I thought you had gone to Mecca not to return like 'apostle' olabowale.

Babs is here

While you are here, kindly attend to this issue raised by Telly B -
1.  Where in the Qur'an was Muhammad called "the Last and greatest prophet"?

2.  I haven't seen a muslim who could provide a verse in The Qur'an for that. But that is what Muslims call him. No doubt the Qur'an makes the offer that there are NO DISTINCTIONS between all the prophets (Qur'an 3:84);

Please carry Go!!

@Sage,

True Christians want to follow the example of their master and would want to know why Jesus and his true followers before the inception of apostasy would not be involved in this worlds political affairs, would not  hold political office nor become a soilder nor engage in wordly warfares to protect national sovreignties.
Two of the reasons are obvious ie It goes directly against the requirments of a christian life and secondly they also know God plans to completely destroy  this worlds political system and its military ambitions and that if they were to have God's favour and truely be his servants, they would have no part in these.

Please tell that to the Centurion whom the Bible commended as being a just man who fears God (Acts 10).
I guess Jesus Christ doesn't think the way you do because he clearly stated that not one person understood the issue of faith than the Centurion in Matthew 8. It is interesting that Jesus never asked him to quit being a soldier before he could walk in faith and receive the concomitant blessing. You are preaching another gospel Sage!!!

@Sage,

It is striking when you recall that Jesus made it clear that it is works and not claims that would identify those who are threading the part that he left for his true followers.

I do not exagerate when I say that your submissions alarm me a lot of times. I fear for you that you are relying on your works for your salvation. The emboldened statement above testifies to that too.

I believe it is on this forum that I mentioned the fact that God recognises only three groups of people on the earth: the Jews, the Nations and the Church! Your reading of the book of revelation is very flawed because you fail to realise that it talks mostly about the end-times and the major characters involved in the end-times are the Jews and the Nations! The Church would have ceased to be on the earth at the time. So how you claim the Church is the harlot in the book of revelation is beyond me, because not only is the church in heaven at the time, it is clear from scriptures that the harlot is a physical city - a Nation other than the Isreal.

I intend to talk more about this issue of Christians killing Christians. My persuasion might shock a lot of people but it is what I see and read the scriptures.

@Telly B,

Thanks for taking the first step towards dispelling this error that donnie is propagating on these pages. I have always been fascinated and eventually heart broken by many men of God whose primary calling is evangelism, but are so eager to keep a following that they delve into the office of a teacher and the end result is error like this one. While I have not heard Pastor Chris teach on this subject, I am not too surprised that he has taken this view because he tends to emulate Benny Hinn a lot, and Benny Hinn's teaching is just totally wacko some times. The attention he gives to the person of the Holy Spirit goes way beyond what I see revealed in scriptures. I'll explain this further in my answers to donnie. Besides, this is not about Benny Hinn.

@donnie,

NO! That is a lie.

What exactly is the lie? That Melchizedek was not an angel or that he was not deity?

I could have let you go ahead without stopping you if you did not start making such catergorical statements.

I learnt very well from my Master Jesus. The testimony He received is that He taught as one having authority. He made categorical statements based on scriptural premises. That is more than I have seen you do so far.

The manifestaions of deity in scriptures have not always been Jesus. As a matter of fact Jesus was never manifested in the old testament. He could not have because there was no Jesus until He was born in bethlehem. No angel ever saw one called Jesus. That is why there was so much joy in heaven at his birth. Not becasue the one they knew in heaven had finaly come to the earth, NO! But becasue a wonder hath taken place; the Word, which was from the beginning, hath now become flesh!

Please try to think about what you are saying a little bit. No one ever said the man Jesus was here in the O.T. As you rightly pointed out, the man Jesus was born by Mary in Bethlehem. The one who manifested in the O.T. is the One called the Son of God which the Bible testifies about in Micah 5:2 whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. To claim that Jesus (used loosley to mean the Word of God or the second member of the Godhead) was never manifested in the OT is the height of abysmal ignorance. While I intend to prove this more later on, I will first bring your attention to His manifestation in the Garden of Eden where He came to meet with Adam and Eve and they hid from Him. Genesis 3:8 - And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden. Did you notice that it was the voice of God that was doing the walking? Who is the voice og God if not the Word of God - Jesus!

Before his birth, He was the Word! HE exisited as the Word in the bossom of the father and not as a seperate entity from the father. The Word from the mouth of God is what became Jesus.

Again, if you are refering to the body which the father prepared for Him, yes you are correct. However, the second member of the Godhead never had a beginning as the body which the Lord prepared for Him Hebrews 10:5 but a body hast thou prepared me

The manifestaions of deity in the old testament were not Jesus but the Holy Ghost- That Angel of His presence. The messenger of God's presence. The one who takes the presence of The father to where His presence is needed as the father never leaves His throne.

Now here you are making categorical statements without any scriptures to prove it. Will you please read in full John 1:18 I quoted earlier to see the entire picture.  John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.We are told here that no one has ever seen God in all His glory, but all the manifestations we see of Him is from no other but the Son who makes Him known. I will go into more depths on these different manifestations when I talk about Jesus calling Himself the "I AM" as Telly B mentioned earlier.

Jesus called the Holy Ghost that which proceedeth from the father.

So? That does not mean He has ever been a manifestation of God in the physical which is the bone of contention here. Jesus also came from the Father which is the same thing as the phrase "proceedeth from the Father". John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father. Now do you notice the word again in bold? What does that mean to you? Doesn't that tell you that He has been in the world before and was going back as a matter of habit? Again means this is not the first time I am doing this!

You quoted the scriptures as saying that no man hath seen God at anytime to support your stand. Well if you will study the scriptures you will see that it must have meant: seeing God in His glory. Because there are several places in scripture where God was manifested to men, appearing in the form of a man.

I have responded to this earlier. As I noted, reading the entire verse in John 1:18 shows that while no man may have seen God in all His glory, every manifestation of God has been done by the Son of God who declares Him and make Him known.

Jacob knew that that could not have been an ordinary man or angel. The lesser is blessed by the greater.

No one argues with you that Jacob met with God here.

This could only have been made possible by the Holy Spirit.

That you cannot prove. The Holy Spirit is not the one who personifies the Godhead in the physical. It is the Son of God. Please be reminded that the fourth man in the fire with the 3 Hebrew children was no other than the Son of God (the Word). Doesn't this prove your claim that Jesus never manifested in the OT false? Who is the Liar now? Daniel 3:25 and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God. Unless you are trying to tell us that the phrase Son of God here refer to the Holy Spirit!

You'll hear more from me later.

I just can't wait. I hope you will think through scriptures yourself and not come here to regurgitate that which you have been taught!

@Sage,

I initially didnt want to get involved in this debate. I knew it would be time consuming and friutless and i didnot have much time to keep up with such a pointless debate for a long time. Some things are really clear it does not need blind argument so i gave up on it. The topic in itself is self explanatory. True Christians are those who follow the example and the instructions of Christ. So if Christ and the early Christians advoided the political and military realms of this world and Christ instructed that his true followers cannot have any part in such but have a primary commision to laud his kingdom, his true followers in the world have an obligation to do the same. Anybody that does otherwise really needs to re-examine themselves as to their professing to be christians. There really is no if, buts or maybe's in it. It is as clear as daylight

I assume this is your parting shot on this topic. let me give you mine: 1 Corinthians 3: 21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours; 22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours; 23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's. If by any shred of the imagination you exclude "politics" as a subset of the superset "ALL", may I then remind you of 1 Corinthians 7: 31 And they that use this world, as not abusing it: for the fashion of this world passeth away.

And may I draw your attention to the tendency to dismiss anyone as unchristian who is not of your persuasion. Let the following scripture be your guiding principle when you differ with other believers as to the manner with which they are persuaded to use the world or otherwise: Romans 14: 3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. 14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another. 22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. 23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. SELAH!!!

@ricadelide,

small world indeed. Pastor Gbade Ogunlana pastors BCC (Bible city church) in Ibadan. He's no longer in Agbowo shopping complex; he's now in a larger place in Bodija. He used to come around to my faculty fellowship back in UI many times and share the Word with us. If there's anyone i've met that knows how to break the word to the level in which ANYBODY can understand, it is him.
I really miss those times back in nigeria. That's why i can't but disagree with those who generalize that nigerian preachers are fraudulent and what not; Nigeria is really blessed indeed, but many times we need to look in the obscure places to find such true men of God.

Thanks for the information. Pastor Gbade Ogunlan of the Bible City Church is the exact person I was trying to remember! What a blessing he was to my life! I do miss the refreshing times I had with some ministers in Naija. While the U.S. can boast of some of the best teachers of God's word that I've ever heard, I still miss the teachers I grew up to know in Naija!!

@bari_kade,

You have eloquently said the things I mentioned already.

@Grouppoint,

However, "Having no begining of days nor end of life", is a nature of divinity. This means that he is eternal.

As bari_kade eloquently testified above, this phrase is a reference to the fact that we have no idea of Melchizedek's geneology! Think of it, when the author of Hebrews was trying to compare the Levitical Priesthood to that of Jesus', who else in scripture bears a closer resemblance than Melchizedek? Everyone else's geneology was known and that disqualifies them! Melcizedek was a type and that means he was a shadow and not the reality. If that is the case, reference to "having no beginning of days nor end of life" must be based on a shadowy thing representing the real endless life that Jesus possesses. Since we have no knowledge of anybody connected to Melchizedek, he therefore provides a good analogy to the reality that is represented in Christ.

Melchizedek was just a man as Hebrews 5:1 testifies that a Priest must be taken from among men.Hebrews 5:1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:

Melchizedek could not have been deity because the only manifestation of deity in the scriptures have always been Jesus (as the scripture said: no man has seen God at any time). Since the scripture confirms that Melchizedek was not Jesus with the phrase: "made like unto the Son of God", the only conclusion we are left with is that Melchizedek is not God.

He could not have been an Angel either because Hebrews 5:1 excludes such a possibility.

“I have always told young Nigerians that they should not make money alone here in Nigeria; that they should spend it here. They asked how they could spend it here and I told them, ‘If you have married one wife, marry another.”

This statement is attributed to Obasanjo in the following article:http://www.punchng.com/Articl.aspx?theartic=Art200706080394879. Please, I need someone to convince me that Obasanjo meant that as a joke. Even so, I am still not laughing! Someone please!!!!

@Telly B,

Kai! This is even harder than Cambridge exam!

There are a few names up there that enrich my spiritual life. Tunde Bakare and Gbile Akanni have some perculiar way of sharing Biblical insights. Others are familiar names who are gifted in their rights as well.

Gbile Akanni was instrumental to my growth as a Christian. In short, he changed my life when he came to our church and taught on Christian Maturity with inspiration from 2 Peter 1:1-11. Blessed be those days!!! I was in an Anglican Church at that time and funny enough, I left the church after hearing Gbile Akanni teach there. His teaching made me realise I could not attain the level of maturity and zeal for Christ that I saw ahead of me within that local assembly!

One of the best teachers of God's Word that I know is one Pastor Gbade. I can't even remeber his last name and what church he pastors. I know he pastors a church in Ibadan at the Agbowo Shopping complex about 7 years ago. He was in our church to teach on healing, and men the guy is sound. Very simple in his delivery of the scriptures but still articulate and precise.

Personally, I gravitate towards teachers of the Bible and I see very, very few around!

@Otuwe,

can't u see that you're contradicting yourself. first u say we are forbidden to pray for physical harm to our enemmies yet u turn around and say it is a warfare,

Warfare with whom? I mentioned specifically the warfare is against principalities and powers. Didn't you get that oer you are just here to spew out your hatred on others?

stop using quotations to confuse yourself.

You are obviously the confused one. Paul said we wrestle not against flesh and blood, BUT rather agaisnt principalities and powers! Isn't that warfare to you?

back to the original question which has not been answered, where did that mode of prayer originate from.

bari_kade provided good answers for you.  Hopefully you'd take the scriptures for what they and end your confusion right here!

can't the churches open their eyes and see that they are going the wrong way, what happened to mattew 6 where Christ Himself taught us how to pray,

Matthew 6 is only one of the many ways Christ taught us to pray. How about His prayer in the Garden of Gethsemane? How about his casting out of demons and the likes - the prayers of ITEO (hope I got that greek spelling right)!

nowadays the Christains have forgotten the message Christ brought rather they are following the ways of their various pastors(including rev king), disgusting!!!

So far, you haven't proved anything. It is wrong to pray against flesh and blood but you are in order praying against principalities and powers. You cannot tell principalities and powers to fall down and die (because they cannot die), rather, you can bind them and cast them out as required!

@TV01,

Where have you been? Kinda missed you . Now don't go mush-mush over that statement as I can withdraw it anytime! Anyway, the debates here have not been particular interesting to me too and my contributions have been so limited lately.

Your spanner and entire tool box are totally welcomed back!!

@lafile,

@All

Question still remains.
Was melchisedec a member of the trinity manifested on earth or
Was melchisedec a mere man who's life was used to reflect Christ as per typology?
And what does the bible mean by saying
"For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually" Heb 7:1-3

Melchizedek is NOT a member of the trinity. The key phrase we have to look at here to understand the mystery of Melchizedek is "made like unto the Son of God".

The Lord wanted Melchizedek to be a type of Christ and so ensured that the minute details about him is consistent with Jesus. Following Paul's thoughts in the Book of Hebrews, we find that he was comparing the Levitical priesthood to that of Jesus Christ. One thing common with all the levitical priest is the fact that their lineage is very much known. If your lineage cannot be traced directly to Levi, you cannot serve as a priest. Melchizedek was different because no one knew his lineage, and as such, he could be a pattern of the Christ that was to come. Paul was refering to his lineage when he said Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life;. The fact that his lineage is undetermined qualifies him to be made like unto the Son of God.

@topic,

All these appointments by tribe is killing our country! I expect to hear that no competent person has yet been apointed as Police IG and not that a particular tribe have had no shot at it. How many tribes do we have in Nigeria? Why particular mention of the igbos when there are hundreds of tribes, nations and dialects within the almagamation called Nigeria! Are the other tribes irrelevant? I can't believe that even a person like Gani is now paralysed by the WAZOBIA mentality! What is good for any of the major tribe is good for the least of the minority!

People will care less where the Police IG comes from as long as they are guaranteed security and non-harassment at home, work, play or in transit!

@topic,

We have been forbidden in the New Testament from wrestling with flesh and blood.  Rather, our warfare is against principalities, powers and spiritual entities in high places. It is sheer ignorance that make people pray for physical harm on people. Our job is to pray for our enemies - Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you. It is up to God to avenge us of people who persecute us 2 Thessalonnas 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

However, it is possible that a man who makes himself available for demons to use as a tool could become a victim when those demons are dealt with. When Jesus delivered that mad man of Gadara, the swine went into the river and drowned when the legion of evil spirits went into them. This goes to prove what Jesus said that the thief comes only to steal, kill and destroy. Those demons would have prefered to drown the man instead of the swine when they were be cast out. !!!

Luke 4:35 testifies to the fact that demons would hurt their host when they are dealt with. Jesus had to forbid the demon from hurting its victim in Luke 4:35 And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him. And when the devil had thrown him in the midst, he came out of him, and hurt him not.

In almost all the cases where Jesus cast out demons, you will notice it invloves a struggle and a time period for the deliverance to be fully complete. It is a warfare as thesilent1 indicated above!

@angel101,

Do these people set the standard for Nigeria?

Should be! We will expect our leaders to lead by example. The Obasanjo administration banned the importation of clothes so as to encourage our local industries. If he was known to have an avid taste for foreign baffs, who would take his policy serious? Our leaders are meant to be role models in everything and this really shouldn't be an exception.

@Drusilla,

I have long said that one of the silliest ideas to come from the interpretation of the bible by "Europeans", is that God only worked with the Jews and now only with Christians. It served their purposes to present God as only with Jews and thus now only with Christians. Thus making them -- the divinely chosen race of God.
The bible itself does not tell that lie but shows that God worked with all people's of the world long before there was even a country called Israel.
I love Israel, don't get me wrong. I want to be in heavenly Jerusalem like Abraham.
Yet the bible is clear and bright that God's plan began with regular people who were not Jews or Levites or Israeli citizens.
Melchisidek, Adam, Eve, Enoch, Noah, etc are all proof of the fact that God was working with Gentiles long before the Levitical priesthood came.

I understand your setiments though I have no clue why anyone will think God was never at work in other nations as well. We see God at work in and using the gentiles for His glory throughout the scripture. I will like to begin from the time of Abraham since he was the first Hebrew. The list could go on an on but notable among them are Melchizedek, Balaam (the mad prophet), the Centurion and Cornelius are examples in the New Testament.
Despite the fact that God worked in and through these gentiles, the dinstiction of the Jews is clear. In His conversation with the woman at the well, Jesus made it clear that worshipping God is not what dinstinguish the Jews from others, rather what dinstinguish them is this: Salvation is of the Jews! That is why Paul further taught that Isreal is the natural branch while everyone else are just wild olives that were grafted in!

@Ogbon,

Congratulations! Thank God for His promise that "in every labour, there is profit." I pray you profit in that which your hands have now found to do!

@I-man,

PS:I do not support Isreal come what may.I too think they should return to most of the pre-1967 borders but I don't believe anymore that the Palestinians are willing peace partners

The statement in bold is the major issue we have to deal with. What is the guarantee for peace if isreal withdraws to the pre-1967 borders when there was certainly no peace back then? Prior to the annexation of land by Isreal in 1967, Egypt along with other Arab countries expelled the UN forces in the Sinai peninsula in readines to attack Isreal. They kept Isreali ships from gaining access to the Straits of Tiran and built up their military prescne at the borders.

Saying withdrawal to the pre-1967 borders is the solution to the mid-east crisis is totally untenable when there was cetainly no peace prior to 1967!!!

@topic,

Have you noticed the common tactics with all these militants? They either target a civilian population to cause as much damage as they can, or they use the same populace as human shields in their fight against other armed forces. So far, I have not heard anyone complain that the Lebanese Army is out of step by attacking these militants even though they are hiding amongst a civilian population. When Isreal rightly did the same some months back, all hell broke loose! What a crazy world?!

@Tornadoz,

So there's a probability it can live in peace with Palestinians. Building more houses in the occupied territory is hardly a way forward.

Doesn't that turn the entire debate over its head? The conclusion from the very word go is "Isreal don't want peace". Are you now saying otherwise?

The two countries you quoted are Moslem countries as well. I wonder why they didn't believe the "kill all Jews" theory you stated. Could this be because Israel remains intransigent?

That is not a theory my friend. It is part of Hamas binding article. The diffeence is that the two countries I mentioned are governed by moderates who believe in civility and the inherent ability of the civilised world to solve its problem. Hamas is in government in Palestine, Hezbollah is trying to topple the Lebanese Government, Iran is governend by the one who is on a crusade to wipe out the Jews, we know Syria's agenda, and the U.S. just rid Iraq of Saddam who was sending scud missiles into Isreal unprovoced and without any retaliation from Isreal. Aer you blind to these facts or you just choose to ignore them?!

@Tornadoz,

My guess is chidichris sees the issues in the middle east as between Christians and Muslims, forgetting the injustice. Chidi please prove me wrong.

Of course the middle east problem is about injustice. It is about the injustice suffered by a people regarded as apes and pigs. It is the injustice that comes about because a man who lived centuries ago said no jew should be left alive on the last day. Hamas and co and unrepentant follower of this man and the result is what we see.

Isreal has lived in peace with Egypt and Jordan for some decades now. These are the only States that recognise their right to exist. If only the otheres towed this same line!!!

@Johnny,

So you don't believe it? Stop dreaming my brother.

How do you expect me to take as gospel truth what you can not prove! Who lives in dreamland? One who seeks facts and figures, or the one who makes statements based on speculations?

@sartorius,

obama, i don't think its possible, american are not ready to accept a black man ruling them, they wouldnt say it but when it comes to voting it will show thats if he is nominated , he can't win bro

How did you arrive at this conclusion?