₦airaland Forum

@cap28, adconline,

I don't have the time to start responding all your points. I will make this point however. You two are no different than the people you accuse of racism. When you judge a man not by his character or actions, but by his skin colour, you might as well have been a member of the KKK.

While they think they are more special than you becuase you are black, you think yourself to be better than them becuase they are white. You are all birds of the same feather and should be locked up away from the rest of civilisation. We don't need race baiters like you around!

@cap28,

nobody is saying that the ability to comit evil is dependant on the colour of ones skin, however i can only base my conclusions on what i know and what i have seen and what i have seen is that white people in the name of imperialism and economic self interests have committed some of the worst atrocities known to man.

You obviously are very confused. You started by declaring that evil is independent of skin colour and in the same breathe attempt to link evil with skin colour. Where do I start to unwind you from the mess you've tied yourself into?

For every historical records you mention, I can point out many others perpetuated by non-Whites. The greatest evil that we can point at in our generation is probably 911, and that was not perpetuated by Whites. What about the genocide in Sudan? This is Black on Black wahala? How about the cannibalism we witnessed during the Liberian civil war? Do you think these are all linked to skin colour?

Please try and remove sentiments from your thought process. It'll help you judge issues more objectively!

@cap28 and pres-elect,

I'm bemused by the thinking of you two. It sounds incredulous to me when rational human beings think that the tendency of a man to commit evil or not depends on his skin pigmentation. There is no evil that the White man has done that the Black man has no propensity of doing. We shout racim today because of the history of slavery. I'm sure you are all aware that slavery was not an exclusive preserve of the White man but all races.

Your tedency to not believe the best of your fellow human being becuase of their skin pigmentation is a betrayal of Martin Luther King's dream that all men will be judged by their character and not by the color of their skin. You guys need to wake up from your delusion. Evil is more than skin deep. It is a malaise that plagues all of humanity!

@adcolie,

I was never in support of the bailout by Bush then and still not in support of the one by Obama. Stop generalising when you have no grasp of the facts.

@Davidylan,

Thank God for the history feature. So whether you like am, whether you no like am, the thing be say you go still dey read my points. Here it is again.

@Davidylan,

You are looking ridiculous with your continued attempt to salvage a political point from what is clearly a corruption case. The accusations against ACORN goes waaaaaaaaaaay back. It's been apologists like you, smart attorneys like Obama and activist judges that have kept them from being investigated thoroughly. Now that this video is out, we will hopefully see them held accountable.

This year’s election is shaping up to be one of the most controversial in history. Just this week, a federal judge ordered Ohio’s top elections official to verify the identity of newly registered voters by matching them with other government documents. The very next day a 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals set aside the federal judge’s order on verifying registrations.

Further igniting the voter fraud/voter registration debate was the news that a national community organizing group is being investigated in at least 14 states and several swing states for massive irregularities. This news would make headlines anyway, but what made it worse was that Barack Obama was a key player in this organization, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, in the past. Obama trained its local leaders, represented the organization in court, and worked to funnel funds to the organization. The Obama campaign also donated $800,000 this year to an ACORN affiliate.


The Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) is a community-based organization that advocates for low and moderate income families founded in 1970 by Wade Rathke and Gary Delgado. Rathke, one of the most powerful hard-Left activists in America, is a former member of a radical 1960s group, the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS). The Weathermen terrorist group split off from the SDS in 1969. ACORN says its priorities include better housing and wages for the poor, more community development investment from banks and governments, and better public schools.

Although the organization prides itself for its registration efforts, it also has a long history of scandal. In the state of Missouri in 1986, 12 ACORN members were convicted of voter fraud. But that case was not an isolated incident in the state. In December 2004, in St. Louis, six volunteers pleaded guilty of dozens of election law violations for filling out registration cards with names of dead people and other bogus information. Authorities launched an earlier investigation after noticing that among the new voters was longtime St. Louis alderman Albert “Red” Villa, who died in 1990. The volunteers worked for “Operation Big Vote” — a branch of ACORN — in St. Louis.

On February 10, 2005, Nonaresa Montgomery, a paid worker who ran Operation Big Vote during the run-up to the 2001 mayoral primary, was found guilty of vote fraud. Montgomery hired about 30 workers to do fraudulent voter-registration canvassing. Instead of knocking on doors, the volunteers sat at a St. Louis fast food restaurant and wrote out names and information from an outdated voter list. About 1,500 fraudulent voter registration cards were turned in.

In October 2006, St. Louis election officials discovered at least 1,492 “potentially fraudulent” voter registration cards. They were all turned in by ACORN volunteers.

In November 2006, 20,000 to 35,000 questionable voter registration forms were turned in by ACORN officials in Missouri. Most all of these were from St. Louis and Kansas City areas, where ACORN purportedly sought to help empower the “disenfranchised” minorities living there. But the ACORN workers weren’t just told to register new voters. The workers admitted on camera that they were coached to tell registrants to vote for Democrat Claire McCaskill.

In 2007, in Kansas City, Missouri, four ACORN employees were indicted for fraud. In April of this year eight ACORN employees in St. Louis city and county pleaded guilty to federal election fraud for submitting bogus voter registrations.

And, that was just Missouri.

This year there have been several accusations of fraud against ACORN. Over a dozen states are investigating the organization already. Here is a complete list of the ongoing investigations:

North Carolina — State Board of Elections officials have found at least 100 voter registration forms with the same names over and over again. The forms were turned in by ACORN. Officials sent about 30 applications to the state Board of Elections for possible fraud investigation.

Ohio — The New York Post reported that a Cleveland man said he was given cash and cigarettes by aggressive ACORN activists in exchange for registering an astonishing 72 times. The complaints have sparked an investigation by election officials into the organization, whose political wing has supported Barack Obama. Witnesses have already been subpoenaed to testify against the organization.

Nevada — Authorities raided the headquarters of the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now on Tuesday October 7, 2008, after a month-long investigation. The fraudulent voter registrations included the Dallas Cowboys starting line-up.

Indiana — More than 2,000 voter registration forms filed in northern Indiana’s Lake County filled out by ACORN employees turned out to be bogus. Officials also stopped processing a stack of about 5,000 applications delivered just before the October 6 registration deadline after the first 2,100 turned out to be phony.

Connecticut — Officials are looking into a complaint alleging ACORN submitted fraudulent voter registration cards in Bridgeport. In one instance, an official said a card was filled out for a 7-year-old girl, whose age was listed as 27. 8,000 cards were submitted in Bridgeport.

Missouri — The Kansas City election board is reporting 100 duplicate applications and 280 with fake information. Acorn officials agreed that at least 4% of their registrations were bogus. Governor Matt Blunt condemned the attempts by ACORN to commit voter fraud.

Pennsylvania — Officials are investigating suspicious or incomplete registration forms submitted by ACORN. 252,595 voter registrations were submitted in Philadelphia. Remarkably, 57,435 were rejected — most of them submitted by ACORN.

Wisconsin — In Milwaukee ACORN improperly used felons as registration workers. Additionally, its workers are among 49 cases of bad registrations sent to authorities for possible charges, as first reported by the Journal Sentinel.

Florida — The Pinellas County Elections supervisor says his office has received around 35 voter registrations that appear to be bogus. There is also a question of 30,000 felons who are registered illegally to vote. Their connections with ACORN are not yet clear.

Texas — Of the 30,000 registration cards ACORN turned in, Harris County tax assessor Paul Bettencourt says just more than 20,000 are valid. And just look at some of the places ACORN was finding those voters. A church just next door is the address for around 150 people. More than 250 people claim a homeless outreach center as their home address. Some listed a county mental health facility as their home and one person even wrote down the Harris County jail at the sheriff’s office.

Michigan — ACORN in Detroit is being investigated after several municipal clerks reported fraudulent and duplicate voter registration applications coming through. The clerk interviewed said the fraud appears to be widespread.

New Mexico – The Bernalillo County clerk has notified prosecutors that some 1,100 fraudulent voter registration cards were turned in by ACORN.

That’s not all. So far this year at least 14 states have started investigations against ACORN. Talk about a culture of corruption. It is so bad that Representatives of Congress have asked for the Justice Department to investigate, and GOP presidential candidate John McCain is bringing it up in his stump speeches. The Obama camp is stealthily altering its “Fight the Smears” website to distance themselves from the organization — quite a challenge considering how close their candidate’s association has been with the group.

The liberal vs. conservative, voter fraud vs. voter intimidation debate will no doubt continue after this election. But this year, with the assistance of scandal-plagued ACORN, it appears that — so far — the voter fraud side is winning.

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-complete-guide-to-acorn-voter-fraud/

@topic,

What happened to my posts again? Thread locked again?

@David,

My point is very simple. We have tried this kind of program before in the real estate side and it almost brought down the economy. What makes anyone think that this same principle will lead to success eventually. Now this is something that happens to someone that I know first hand. Who knows the experiences of others we know nothing about?

There are a lot of unintended negative consequences to every attempt by the govt to manipulate markets. Subsidizing farmers here in the US causes starvation in Africa, mandating ethanol in vehicles increases the price of corn globally. The Community Reinvestment Act may have spurred home ownership initially, but it led to massive foreclosures down the line. Even the cash for Clunker Program is not without its unintended consequences - from repos of vehicles (just like foreclosures), to keeping Mechanic shops less busy and increasing the cost of spare parts of those vehicles to the massive interests and debt that the govt will have to pay back.

So you see, it is not about Obama, but Govt interventions and mandates that have never had a history of success, whether under Republicans or Democrats.

@Davidylan,

You are looking ridiculous with your continued attempt to salvage a political point from what is clearly a corruption case. The accusations against ACORN goes waaaaaaaaaaay back. It's been apologists like you, smart attorneys like Obama and activist judges that have kept them from being investigated thoroughly. Now that this video is out, we will hopefully see them held accountable.

This year’s election is shaping up to be one of the most controversial in history. Just this week, a federal judge ordered Ohio’s top elections official to verify the identity of newly registered voters by matching them with other government documents. The very next day a 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals set aside the federal judge’s order on verifying registrations.

Further igniting the voter fraud/voter registration debate was the news that a national community organizing group is being investigated in at least 14 states and several swing states for massive irregularities. This news would make headlines anyway, but what made it worse was that Barack Obama was a key player in this organization, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, in the past. Obama trained its local leaders, represented the organization in court, and worked to funnel funds to the organization. The Obama campaign also donated $800,000 this year to an ACORN affiliate.


The Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) is a community-based organization that advocates for low and moderate income families founded in 1970 by Wade Rathke and Gary Delgado. Rathke, one of the most powerful hard-Left activists in America, is a former member of a radical 1960s group, the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS). The Weathermen terrorist group split off from the SDS in 1969. ACORN says its priorities include better housing and wages for the poor, more community development investment from banks and governments, and better public schools.

Although the organization prides itself for its registration efforts, it also has a long history of scandal. In the state of Missouri in 1986, 12 ACORN members were convicted of voter fraud. But that case was not an isolated incident in the state. In December 2004, in St. Louis, six volunteers pleaded guilty of dozens of election law violations for filling out registration cards with names of dead people and other bogus information. Authorities launched an earlier investigation after noticing that among the new voters was longtime St. Louis alderman Albert “Red” Villa, who died in 1990. The volunteers worked for “Operation Big Vote” — a branch of ACORN — in St. Louis.

On February 10, 2005, Nonaresa Montgomery, a paid worker who ran Operation Big Vote during the run-up to the 2001 mayoral primary, was found guilty of vote fraud. Montgomery hired about 30 workers to do fraudulent voter-registration canvassing. Instead of knocking on doors, the volunteers sat at a St. Louis fast food restaurant and wrote out names and information from an outdated voter list. About 1,500 fraudulent voter registration cards were turned in.

In October 2006, St. Louis election officials discovered at least 1,492 “potentially fraudulent” voter registration cards. They were all turned in by ACORN volunteers.

In November 2006, 20,000 to 35,000 questionable voter registration forms were turned in by ACORN officials in Missouri. Most all of these were from St. Louis and Kansas City areas, where ACORN purportedly sought to help empower the “disenfranchised” minorities living there. But the ACORN workers weren’t just told to register new voters. The workers admitted on camera that they were coached to tell registrants to vote for Democrat Claire McCaskill.

In 2007, in Kansas City, Missouri, four ACORN employees were indicted for fraud. In April of this year eight ACORN employees in St. Louis city and county pleaded guilty to federal election fraud for submitting bogus voter registrations.

And, that was just Missouri.

This year there have been several accusations of fraud against ACORN. Over a dozen states are investigating the organization already. Here is a complete list of the ongoing investigations:

North Carolina — State Board of Elections officials have found at least 100 voter registration forms with the same names over and over again. The forms were turned in by ACORN. Officials sent about 30 applications to the state Board of Elections for possible fraud investigation.

Ohio — The New York Post reported that a Cleveland man said he was given cash and cigarettes by aggressive ACORN activists in exchange for registering an astonishing 72 times. The complaints have sparked an investigation by election officials into the organization, whose political wing has supported Barack Obama. Witnesses have already been subpoenaed to testify against the organization.

Nevada — Authorities raided the headquarters of the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now on Tuesday October 7, 2008, after a month-long investigation. The fraudulent voter registrations included the Dallas Cowboys starting line-up.

Indiana — More than 2,000 voter registration forms filed in northern Indiana’s Lake County filled out by ACORN employees turned out to be bogus. Officials also stopped processing a stack of about 5,000 applications delivered just before the October 6 registration deadline after the first 2,100 turned out to be phony.

Connecticut — Officials are looking into a complaint alleging ACORN submitted fraudulent voter registration cards in Bridgeport. In one instance, an official said a card was filled out for a 7-year-old girl, whose age was listed as 27. 8,000 cards were submitted in Bridgeport.

Missouri — The Kansas City election board is reporting 100 duplicate applications and 280 with fake information. Acorn officials agreed that at least 4% of their registrations were bogus. Governor Matt Blunt condemned the attempts by ACORN to commit voter fraud.

Pennsylvania — Officials are investigating suspicious or incomplete registration forms submitted by ACORN. 252,595 voter registrations were submitted in Philadelphia. Remarkably, 57,435 were rejected — most of them submitted by ACORN.

Wisconsin — In Milwaukee ACORN improperly used felons as registration workers. Additionally, its workers are among 49 cases of bad registrations sent to authorities for possible charges, as first reported by the Journal Sentinel.

Florida — The Pinellas County Elections supervisor says his office has received around 35 voter registrations that appear to be bogus. There is also a question of 30,000 felons who are registered illegally to vote. Their connections with ACORN are not yet clear.

Texas — Of the 30,000 registration cards ACORN turned in, Harris County tax assessor Paul Bettencourt says just more than 20,000 are valid. And just look at some of the places ACORN was finding those voters. A church just next door is the address for around 150 people. More than 250 people claim a homeless outreach center as their home address. Some listed a county mental health facility as their home and one person even wrote down the Harris County jail at the sheriff’s office.

Michigan — ACORN in Detroit is being investigated after several municipal clerks reported fraudulent and duplicate voter registration applications coming through. The clerk interviewed said the fraud appears to be widespread.

New Mexico – The Bernalillo County clerk has notified prosecutors that some 1,100 fraudulent voter registration cards were turned in by ACORN.

That’s not all. So far this year at least 14 states have started investigations against ACORN. Talk about a culture of corruption. It is so bad that Representatives of Congress have asked for the Justice Department to investigate, and GOP presidential candidate John McCain is bringing it up in his stump speeches. The Obama camp is stealthily altering its “Fight the Smears” website to distance themselves from the organization — quite a challenge considering how close their candidate’s association has been with the group.

The liberal vs. conservative, voter fraud vs. voter intimidation debate will no doubt continue after this election. But this year, with the assistance of scandal-plagued ACORN, it appears that — so far — the voter fraud side is winning.
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-complete-guide-to-acorn-voter-fraud/

@Davidylan and spoilt,

I expected such typical responses and I got them.

Question. Would she still have a car today if there was no $.4.C? The likely anwer is yes. So the bottomline remains that the program provided the incentive that got her into this mess.

It was this same principle that led to the mortgage crisis that almost brought down the entire economy. Govt continued actions of borrowing money to pay for people who can't afford a product just to appear humane. It backfired before and its backfiring again. Ever talk about unintended consequences.

@topic,

It is coming to light now that the case of Otto Raddatz that Obama gave on the floor of the House was totally misrepresented by the President. I am wondering when the House will move the motion to express displeasure at the President for intentioanlly misleading the House. Or does the truth mean nothing?

@pres-elect,

You are making one very vital mistake. Majority of Americans see themselves as Conservatives or conservative-leaning. They voted for Obama because they thought he was middle of the road. Reality has now hit them in the face that he is as leftist as can be. His problem today is not with Republicans but with the Democrats. A good number of them understand that the people don't want what Obama wants and are now going to stand with their people and not the President.

Let them come out with a bill that mirrors the values of Americans and the bill will pass with good support. So far, they have done none of that.

And as you noted, support for Obama's healthcare reform keeps dropping everytime he appears on TV. He is overdoing it this weekend and it is going to kill him. He can't charm his way with the American people anymore. He is no longer the innocent looking and believable guy that Americans' pictured during the election. He basically cannot be trusted!

@topic,

I received a call yesterday from a credit company who wanted me to help them with access to one of my rental properties (which I declined of course). Apparently, my tenant provided my contact details in her application for the cash for clunkers program. Unfortunately, she has not been paying her car notes and the new truck is been repossessed. My dear tenant had a clunker that worked fine but she traded it in for a new one that she can't afford becuase of the govt credit.

The bottom line is this. She has lost her dependable clunker and is about to lose the new GMC truck she just acquired. Instead of her owning her dependable clunker and owing no man anything but love, she has now lost her clunker, received a hit on her credit history and is a wanted person by those she owes. All due to Obama's $.4.C program. Aint that typical?!

Davidylan,

I'm glad pres_elect raised this point . . .

Will videos made in 2009 tell us corruption is a culture at ACORN that was founded in 1970? Really you wonder how people get suckered into the FOX news propaganda

Is this the best defense you can come up with? ACORN should be declared not-guilty because it was established in 1970? I trust you can do better than this.

This same ACORN is under investigation in several States for voter regristration fraud and all manner of ills. Many politicians including some Democrats with conscience (endangered species), have called attention to the fraud that ACORN is but more powerful politicians have supressed a full scale investigation into their activities. This video hopefully will trigger a national investigation that they have shied away from for obvious reasons. ACORN is corrupt, plain and simple.

@pres-elect & Davidylan,

While you are here defending ACORN, every person with integrity including those who feign integrity (Democrats come to mind here ), and the White House are distancing themselves from the corrupt organization.

While I know in my core that both of you are really conservative leaning, your recent attempts to defend liberalism and its ills because of the annointed one Obama, has clearly affected your sense of judgement.

@topic,

About time they import such to naija. If armed robbers are aware that any home could possess guns in the form of cell phones, perhaps they will be shy to just enter people's homes who may no longer be as defenceless as before.

Only one problem sha. I hope NEPA provides enough power to constantly charge the cell phone so it'll be ready and available when needed.

@Ibime,

The story has no legs. . . . and no amount of broadcasting on Nairaland will give the story legs.

Of course the story has no legs. Infact it is so crippled that the Senate held a vote to deny funding to ACORN. That the US Senate consider the matter so serious to deserve a floor vote goes to show that Ibime's views would on a good day deserve nothing better than to be ignored.

@davidylan,

Thou lord, unto thee belong all the intelligence and foresight.

This day has salvation come unto thee. To maintain your salvation, only follow my ten commandments.

1. Thou shalt not put Obama before me.
2. Thou shalt not substitutue private care for Obama Care.
3. Thou shalt not call me by no stupid name.
4. Remember the RNC convention days to keep them holy.
5. Honor your conservative leaders that your days in freedom may be long.
6. Thou shalt not murder babies in the name of reproductive healthcare.
7. Thou shalt not "have any sexual relations" with White House interns.
8. Thou shalt not take kickbacks for political appointments.
9. Thou shalt not commit perjury.
10. Thou shalt not covet the Presidency. I created liberals to follow and not lead.

@davidylan,

you tell us, since you know it all.

Of course I know it all. Godlike as I am, it is to my glory to not be explicit. Mere human that you are, it is to your glory to seek for the answers. So what have you found out miserable earthling?! 

@topic,

What has amused me so far in this discussion is how people have ignored the veracity or otherwise of Wilson's "you lie" outburst! One thing is for sure, either Obama was really lying or Wilson lied.

So who is the real liar - Obama or Wilson?

Y'hello guys,

Can someone help with the folowing VIn please? jn8az08w33w214845.

It's for a truck I plan to purchase by the weekend.

Thank you.

@Primate Pres-Elect,

Thanks for the preaching Brother. I was "blessed" so wonderfully. Where do I send the tithes? I understand your middle name is now Melchizedek.

So if God gives us choices, why then do you support the civil rights bill? Why not leave it to individuals to decide whether to actively practice racism or not? Afterall, they have a God-given free will to be racist! Ludicrous baa? So was your argument.

You cannot legislate righteousness but you can create conducive atmosphere/conditions that promotes a virtue or vice. The Civil Rights Bill did not cure racism but limits its practice because of the no-tolerance atmosphere that the law and the consequences of breaking the law advocate. So while a law may limit the evil people practice (even if it does not change the internal dynamics), it can also promote the evil that people do. That is what your so-called "pro-choice" stance does. It promotes the slaughtering of babies and that landmark ruling of Roe v Wade along with the funding provided to promote the slaughtering of babies through the "pro-choice" movement creates and promotes the atmosphere for the wanton killling of babies.

If you are willing to receive the praise for the consequences of promoting the civil rights bill, you should also be ready to take responsibility for every consequences that the "pro-choice" movement brings about. Fair requirement?

@Aloy-Emeka,

Its you that has a problem. I have neither agreed nor disagreed for personal reasons does not equate to either agree or disagree. Americans usually say, "I plead the 5th". It has nothing to do with my agreement or disagreement spo, stop polarizing this issue and eulogize the dead man.

This is classic. Pleading the 5th after a bout of verbal diarrhoea. What a noble concept.

Good for you. Coincedentally, your answer is quite diff from your initial statement that Bush never intended for casualties. I have never heard a dumb comment like that in my whole life. Next time, think before you pen it down.

This is a case of not thinking things through. First you jumped into the discussion on a wrong premise, now you can't even read through the statement made in context. It's all my fault for explaining the obvious to you.

@Ibime,

It is a shame that Tayo-D has chosen to indulge in an exercise of self-aggrandisement. For anyone to suggest that the ubiquitous Ibime seeks attention from a RoosterDrinker like Tayo-D suggests that the person has forgotten his position in the intellectual-strata. Einstein cannot seek attention from Emeagwali, neither can Shakespeare seek attention from Cyprain Ekwensi. Of course I like toying with the village idiot, but he should never forget that he is nothing but an ephemeral curiosity.

I can see you are back to suck up more attention. You just confrimed to many that they have no reason to doubt your infantile disposition. Only babies make the kind of comparisons you just did.

Do us all a favour. Call yourself an idiot and we will call it a day!

@pres-elect,

its comforting to know that in the whole post i made u sigled out one line to criticise. this means u agreed to the rest of the post. till further notice.

Wrong conclusion. I only picked that out at this time because you've consistently lied about this isue on nairaland. I remember planning to respond to it on another thread but never got around to doing so. 

with regards to your comment, i agree-----another huge difference between you and me, i am not ashamed to accept when i'm wrong.

Your point is taken.  You are a better person than I am.  Can we move on now? 

the civil rights bills was opposed by democrats and republicans as well. but dont forget that the calibre of people we have in the republican party of today, emanated from the politics of the civil rights era. these are the people who were very bitter with president johnson for signing the civil rights bill and giving the bloody niggers voting rights et al, the left the democrat party and rushed over to the opposition republican party. these white supremacists were mostly white southerners, offsprings of the civil war loosers. they left and even president johnson was said to have lamented . . ''we have just handed over the south to the republicans''  . . .a political picture that we see today.

You have only tried to build a house on the foundation of lies you admitted a paragraph earlier. How could you think such a house can stand? There were a lot more reasons why there were defections. How could people who hate Blacks defect to a Party who supported them more? It was obvious from the voting record that the racist Whites will feel more at home with the DNC than with the RNC. Quit this spinning abeg.

so in a way, i was not substantially wrong when i say the ''republicans'' opposed the civil rights bill in the 60s, it is these same ''cabal'' of republicans that opposed the bill in the 60s, only some of them were in the democrat party.

You see why I said you are better than me? You have the ability to state categorically that you were wrong about an issue a few senences earlier. Yet, you claim a few breathes later that you were not substantially wrong. Tell me, how can I evolve into a finer Homo Sapien specimen like you with the ability to talk from both sides of my mouth?

as per your issue of abortion and senator kennedy. i really need to remind you holy pharisees that the democrat party is not ''pro-abortion'' but ''pro-choice''. they mean different things. i am not in favor of abortions. but if a woman wants to kill her baby for no just cause, I am not God to control her body. it is her choice, she will answer to God. not me. pro-choice is different from pro-abortion.

No no no. I do not say that you are pro-abortion.  Haba, I like the politically correct "pro-choice" much better.  But if I may ask, what are the consequences of being "pro-choice" and providing funding to sustain the choice? Do you know anything about cause and effect? Are we only to dwell on your good intentions and ignore the consequences of the action.  Do you think we should laud Bush for his good intentions to rid the Iraqis of Saddam and to eliminate WMDs while ignoring the human sacrifices that followed his decisions?

kennedy did a lot of good, but if you choose, even at this moment of his death, to remember his faults and imperfection, then mr tayo, i am ashamed of you as a fellow african, b/c regardless of how long you've been in america, our culture discourages saying evil about people who just died . . .at least for the sake of their survivors. not even for abacha.

I have told you before, I am not a good human being. I pray to God to make me as good as you since you exemplify everything good about the human race. I am sorry that I am judging his fruits. How different am I from you when you are also doing the same? We are both paying attention to his fruits - good or bad. "By their fruits you shall know them"  Aren't those the words of the greatest teacher that ever lived?

@Aloy-Emeka,

You said this: "I have not admitted to any wrong doing by both parties so, I don't know where you got the notion that I am shying away from admitting the evils perpetrated by Kennedy."  Yet, a few post earlier you claimed that: "Ok, next time, remember to mortify all the republicans and democrats who played a part in killing innocent citizens for no just cause starting from D/i/c/k Cheney."

My question.  Is this a case of selective amnesia or you are telling us that you view the killing of innocent civilians as no wrong doing? 

Are you telling me that if you decide to bomb Lagos today, you wouldn't expect human casualties?. Even a robot will expect human casualties so, don't tell me that  Bush himself was surprised. How can you defend somebody like this to a fault?. Dem swear for you?.  I do not wish to give any adjudication on the case of Kennedy because of personal convictions. I repeat for the umpteenth time, I AM NOT GOD and judgment is not in my place. I will make the same adjudication in the Bush/Cheney combo.

Are you okay upstairs? Me defend Bush to a fault even when I said he should be held accountable for his actions? Are you for real? 

As to the death of many innocent thousands in Iraq, that was definitely not his intentions or plan.  If I recall correctly, only one US soldier and a few dozen Iraqis were killed at the time the US overthrew Saddam. While there is still no excuse for the innocents that may have been killed at that point, no one expected that the Sunnis and Shias will turn agaisnt each other and cause the killing spree to spread to thousands more.  That was my point. But whether Bush expected the killing spree or not, he should answer for the deaths.

@Aloy-Emeka,

I did not bring up this issue, remember?. You were the person who asked if God will give Kennedy a proper penance for his sins while others were busy writing their eulogies. I just answered your question with a question and you are turning it back to me. Refer to page 1 and confirm.
Also, you've already judged Bush and Cheney by agreeing that they are evil and God will extend His punishment unto them, I didn't agree to it. Once again, how will God hold you responsible for your own sins and do you think you are holier than these men you cajole and criticize?

Perhaps you need to have understood the discussion before you jumped into it. I never started the issue of penance for sins or otherwise. I came into the discussion when I noticed the tendency for people to excuse the consequences of their idol's actions. The issue still remains if Kennedy like everyone else should be held accountable for their actions. I stated that Bush and co should, but you have a problem admitting that Kennedy should.

Bush never intended for thousands of innocents to die when he invaded Iraq. However, his actions led to the death of many innocent victims. I believe he needs to be held responsible by his actions including the unintended consequences fo such actions. As for Kennedy and the many who support the killing of innocent babies in the name of reproductive health, do you think they should be accountable for the lives lost through their actions even though the consequnences of such actions were not unknown to them? Do you think they should be held accountable for the intended consequences of killing innocent babies?

@JeSoul,

You're both very learned, intelligent men - who happen to view world issues from different ends of the spectrum - and by God I hope you both see that there is nothing wrong in that! We all differ and our atimes very drastically different experiences are what shape our viewpoints. I think some apparently very cherished opinions stated on this thread are absolutely absurd - and the favor is very much reciprocated by the opposing party. And you know what - I'm okay with that and don't necessarily think the 'absurd'-viewpoint-holder is himself absurd - just that we've both had different experiences leading us to different conclusions about a singular matter.

I really have no problem with Ibime. I usually ignore him when he comes here with his childish outbursts. I just decided today to reciprocate in kind, but all in good fate.

Unlike one or two other people I can identify on nairaland, I don't think he is really mean-spirited. He is just trying to have some fun - albeit childishly. He wanted some attention and he's got it. Like every child, he will soon go away to play with his toys and forget any animosity he seems to have now. He is a spoilt childish liberal with a warped view of life, just like every liberal out there.

@Aloy-Emeka,

I am not his God so, it's not in my place to hold him tenable. He who has no sin, let him cast the first stone.

Very convenient.  And yet you asked that I call for the head of Dick Cheney and co!  Are you their God?

@Ibime,

Since your inate buffonery can only be dampened by palliative measures, I recommend that you submit yourself to the nearest eugenics centre where we can ensure that your idiocy is discontinued from source. It is a shame that such technology did not exist in the time of your forebears and as such, we have had to suffer the consequences of their dalliances. I hope for humanity sake that the kids take after their mother, lest the genetic defect that defines your ilk continues to propagate foolishness into the next generation.

I take solace in the fact that the same govt you rely upon for your daily living have done the responsible thing by given you up as a Guinea Pig on the altar of Eugenics.  So while the negative eugenics will ensure that the earth is rid of you and your foolishness eventually, it is a crime that they let you loose from the lab to continue to propagate your foolishness on the www.  I have an advise for you.  Get rid of yourself like your mentor Adolf Hitler. You will not be missed one bit  .

@Alloy-Emeka,

Ok, next time, remember to mortify all the republicans and democrats who played a part in killing innocent citizens for no just cause starting from D/i/c/k Cheney. If no one is holy here, why waste your time pointing out the sins of only Kennedy?

Breaking News. This topic is about Kennedy. You want to talk about Cheney? Start another thread. In the mean time, you still did not say whether Kennedy deserves to be held accountable for his role in the wanton killing of innocent babies.

@bawomolo,

lots of southern democrats moved to the Republican party as a sign of opposition to the civil rights bill.

But this was after the Bill was passed. There definitely was more to why they moved than the Bill. If they moved because of the Bill, it'll be to cement thir position with the DNC.  Afteral, far more percentage of the Republicans in the House and Senate voted for the Bill.  On the other hand, far more percentage of Democrats in the House and Senate voted against the Bill.  This is a fact.

By the way, you think pres-elect's assertion is correct?

@pres-elect,

finally, most of the nincompoops saying rubbish about him today in this thread should realise that kennedy was part of the struggle in the United States Senate in the 60s that helped push immigration reform which enabled the nincompoops in this thread to come to the US to make noise.
apart from that, He was also a strong voice in the senate for civil rights which enabled blacks, even blacks with nigerian names to have a say in the US . . . . . a[b] move opposed vehemently by the republican party at that time[/b] . . .and even now

You know this is an outright lie. I have often ignored this accusatin that you've made on nairalanad several times. You might want to go back and study your history, thereby correcting yourself. Spewing Leftists propaganda on the www does not make it true.