₦airaland Forum

@Ikomi,

Reasoning has always been beyond you. While gaining my attention has been your priority on this thread. Although I have done my best to ignore you but as you are foolishly hard driven by ignorance you would not stop coming.

Idiot.  My first response on this thread was directed at Davidylan. But being a foolish dog, you sure went back for your vomit.

And I shall stop there with you as you cannot not reason.

But I know the difference between a tribe and a religion, even though you find that very challenging.

Look at the idiot talking about Shabak. At least I have added to your knowledge by pointing you to the website.

And until I pointed it out, you thought the ethnicity of the Shabaks was actually Shia. Olodo.

Tayo-D please leave me alone, I dont have time for chronic idiots. As simple as that :-

Leave you alone? Na by force to respond to people's post?

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2007/10/distribution-ethnic-groups-iraq-0

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Iraq_ethno_2003.jpg

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/middle_east_and_asia/iraq_ethnoreligious_1992.jpg

Again, if you had followed and understood the links you posted, you'll realise that the references were to ethnoreligious groups. You should try to read sometimes, okay?

Let me help you here with the aid of wikipedia to understand who a Shiite is. You will find the rest of the article here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiite

Shia Islam (Arabic: شيعة‎ Shī‘ah, sometimes Shi'a or Shi'ite), is the second largest denomination of Islam, after Sunni Islam.

"Shia" is the short form of the historic phrase Shī‘atu ‘Alī (شيعة علي), meaning "the followers of Ali" or "the faction of Ali".

I doubt you will admit your ignorance even in the face of factual evidence.  But I'm having a ball seing you self-destruct here on nairaland.  The more you try to justify yourself, the more you are revealed as the intellectual fraud that you are - Ayahtollah Ikomi the Olodo! 

@ajadrage,

And what has she said wrong?

@Ikomi,

Another fool on the loose

We are going to see who the fool is now.

A double truck bombing tore through the village of a small Shiite ethnic minority near the northern Iraqi city of Mosul, while nine blasts wracked Baghdad Monday in a wave of violence that killed at least 48 people and wounded more than 250, Iraqi officials said.

So because of that phrase, you conclude that a Shiite is a member of an ethnic group? I can see that not only do you lack a fundamental knowledge of the Middle East, you do not understand the use of English as well.

Here is a quote from the following article http://www.idop.org/map.pdf 'Historically Christian ethnic minorities at risk of genocide.'. If we are to go by your lack of understanding, we will conclude then that Christians are part of an ethnic group and not members of a particular faith. Do you see your stupidity now? Who is the fool?

A Shiite is a member of a faith in Islam and not an ethic group. The msnbc article only indicated that the particular ethnic group in question (the Shabak) are mainly Shiites by their faith. If you had read and understood the article you quoted, you would have found that out yourself. But of course, only fools like you regurgitate issues they have no clue about.

Repeat after me Ikomi. I, Ikomi, presently known as Ayahtollah Ikomi is the undisputed fool of nairaland!

@David,

You dey try o. Na by force to educate people? You should know those who will never allow facts to get in the way of their argument.

Ayahtolah Ikomi is one to not be argued with even in the face of glaring facts. The self-described expert on Middle East matters claimed in an earlier exchange that a Shiite is a member of a tribe in Iraq. How do you argue with someone like that?

@pres-elect,

i was thinking of virginia or maryland.

Good for you. A lot of Naijas are in those States. Weather is relatively mild there as well.

oh, is that mayo clinic in minnesota? wow, it is very popular in medical circles. i knew about it even from nigeria. wow, but i hear minnesota is so damn cold. almost like canada. is it true?

Yep. The famous Mayo Clinic is in Rochester, MN. I believe that is the Saudi King's Hospital. He comes there regularly for his check-ups and co. God knows that he needs it with his ever growing Harem. Yep, Mn is very cooooooooooold. And with the average temperature going about 5 degrees below normal, it is one of the several States attesting to Al Gore's global warming lies.

well tayo u know i abhor violence regardless of who is doing it. and violence is not part of the debate. this goes to show that all the town hall brouhaha may not really be about healthcare at all. as for the real healthcare debate . . . i'm out

It is the Democrats and the leftist who are getting violent. They want to stiffle dissent at all cost. There is nothing democratic about the leftist Democratic Party.

@bawomolo,

stingy ijebu man. share the wealth.

I thot the thot of sharing the wealth will make you liberals giddy with excitement? My mistake. That obviously happens mostly when it is taxed and you do the redistribution yourself.

every post i make. curbs global warming.

And every breath you took posting it cranks up the temperature a notch!

@pres-elect,

and i enjoyed that kiss there . . . it's been a while . .

It's been a while ke?! I thought you aint getting none at all.

as for the healthcare debate . . . i'm out

Of course naa. It's time to bail out when liberals are beginning to show their true colour through violence. Goog timing.

When are you coming to the US sef? Decided which of the States? The Mayo Clinic here in MN is still one of the best in the world (for now at least). Better come learn some things there before Obamacare kills the place finally.

@bawomolo,

oga Tayo, are you even a conservative when it comes to internet time

take am easy o

In relative terms, YES! With less than 2,000 posts, I am way more conservative with my time compared to you with over 7,000 posts. You've obvioulsy taken liberalism on steroids on the www.

@davidylan,

another hypocrite enjoying the lifestyle of infidels her own parents are financing others to bomb in the name of allah?

Oh my goodness! Are you always ON?

@topic,

All you haters should leave that fine Princess alone.  Don't you realise she made a business decision that will yield abundant fruits for her? To me, this is a win-win situation for both the thieves and their "victim".  I hope the thieves get away with this crime so they can have something to retire on.  Afterall, if these thieves retire from the loot, there will be less criminals on the streets of Italy. 

The Princess on the other hand will receive visits from royal members of her family who will be on hand to sympathise with her.  Vists from 20 royal Princes is all she needs. Each one might just give her a $1million check to cover her loss.  By the time this is over, she would have had some change in her royal pocket to spare. Now this is assuming she will not receive any check from her insurance company.

With no shedding of blood but wealth redistribution, I guess you all will no doubt agree with me that this was indeed a win-win situation for all concerned.  So please, keep your pity and condemnations to yourselves.  The business savvy Princess does not need them! 

@Ibime,

Im happy they beat this dude black and blue. . . . this should be the new approach to dealing with deviants such as this confused nigga!

Why am I not surprised by your reaction?! I must give you props for this though, you were being honest with your feelings.

@JeSoul,

I don't blame you for being careful.  Not only has Obama asked for the information of people who disagree with him to be forwarded to the WH, his Union supporters have started attacking Americans who genuinely express their opposition to his plan.  I have always known that the liberals do not stand for freedom, but the extent they are now going to suppress dissent is getting scary.  But we wont back down.  No. Now is not the time.

Check out the following link: http://www.dakotavoice.com/2009/08/interview-with-kenneth-gladney-man-assaulted-by-union-thugs-at-town-hall/

Kenneth was attacked on the evening of August 6, 2009 at Rep. Russ Carnahan’s town hall meeting in South St. Louis County. I was at the town hall meeting as well and witnessed the events leading up to the attack of Kenneth. Kenneth was approached by an SEIU representative as Kenneth was handing out “Don’t Tread on Me” flags to other conservatives. The SEIU representative demanded to know why a black man was handing out these flags. The SEIU member used a racial slur against Kenneth, then punched him in the face. Kenneth fell to the ground. Another SEIU member yelled racial epithets at Kenneth as he kicked him in the head and back. Kenneth was also brutally attacked by one other male SEIU member and an unidentified woman. The three men were clearly SEIU members, as they were wearing T-shirts with the SEIU logo.

Kenneth was beaten badly. One assailant fled on foot; three others were arrested. Kenneth was admitted to St. John’s Mercy Medical Center emergency room, where he was treated for his numerous injuries. Kenneth was merely expressing his freedom of speech by handing out the flags. In fact, he merely asked people as they exited the town hall meeting whether they would like a flag. He in no way provoked any argument or altercation, as evidenced by the fact that three assailants were arrested.

@Promise72,

Where are you located? The closest port will be New York/ New Jersey. However, dont forget that you will have to transport the truck from NH to New Jersey.

I think AES shipping (www.aesshipping.com) can help. Contact Mike and get a quote. You will need to know the measurement of the truck to get an accurate quote.

Never used the company but i heard that they are good.

Good luck.

I can recommend AES Shipping. They helped in shipping my last car to Naija - a Nissan Xterra. I worked with Mike throughout and our correspondnece was purely by email. I never spoke to him. I recommended the same guy to another family friend who had nothing but good experience with them as well. My car was shipped by RoRO and was in Naija Port in less than 3 weeks after I shipped it to them. I highly recommend them.

@topic,

I am finding this topic very interesting. I am in the initial stage of looking for a MACK Dump truck I plan to send buy, send to Naija and use for personal business with a friend. I'll appreciate info about fair dealers who sell for competitive prices and will follow some of the guidelinnes here for shipping.

Keep up the good works guys.

Alex Akinyele

@Ibime,

You sabi read? I didnn't pay $30,000. The bill from the Hospital was $30,000. I paid less than $2,000 out of pocket. The "evil" insurance company paid the balance. How greedy of them. They should have paid the entire $30,000 while even paying me for patronising them.

Abeg, I get work to do this morning before heading home. Can't let you guys distract me from making some "evil" profits before I go home today.

@pres-elect,

You've been threatening us with your impending move to the US for a long time. When are you going to make the move now? Are you waintig for the Obama recesiion to recede first or what?

Working in the healthcare industry is good for you. That is one of the areas that are still selling even during the Obama recession. No surprise 'cos 80% of Americans are still insured despite the hell you guys are painting about the healthcare system.

@Ibime,

Aging population, higher prices of drugs (no thanks to privatisation of the drug industry in Yankee) are the cause of all these.

See my argument above about old people and insurance.  Funny that the Yankee health system that you so loathe is the same one producing the drugs you need there.  Do you have an idea how much goes into research to produce one drug?

Start-up costs prohibit competition in medical industry. Health companies are not cartels? Tell that to their lobbyists. We receive Health Insurance (from these same companies) at a far cheaper price in Britain. If that is not evidence of cartel behaviour, then tell me what is? Thank God that we have a viable competitor called the NHS who is able to break the cartellish behaviour of these coys by providing real competition.

It's obvious your NHS is subject to the same problems you call out in the evil insurance companies. The bottom line is money, right?  The diffenrence is that while the "evil" insurance companies have to depend on its investors to raise money for business, your NHS will literally squeeze the money it needs fom increasingly unwilling citizens through taxation.  The "evil" insurance companies provide a ROI to the investors, what does the NHS provide you in return?

Prices have gone up. . . . maybe so. . . . but if the price of my cup of garri goes up from N1 to N2 and yours goes from N10 to N20, I dont think you should be worrying about my ability to feed myself!

See this wayo man! The NHS costs have gone up tenfold and not doubled as you suggests here.  Insurance premium in the US on the other hand, have only doubled in the last decade.  Good try.

As for the unfortunate gentleman who wants to prolong his life by one-year on some drug, and charge the Govt $60,000, that is an inane argument. Perhaps we should also keep everyone on life-machines to prolong their life. . . . should we allow them to stay on the machine for 3 years at a cost of £10 million like our friend Ariel Sharon. . . . is that dude dead yet . . . . the mans disease is incurable. . . he should accept his fate . . . . .All Governments and All Insurance companies decide what they can cover and what not to cover. As long as the Government foregoes the isolated and expensive cases to do with prolonging life in order to address the massive demand of the rest of the populace (whose diseases are curable), thats fine by me. . . . our friend here should seek Private Insurance if he wants to prolong his life by a year. . . . others are seeking right to die at Dignitas, he is seeking right to live

Question! Would it have made a difference if it was not $60,000 but $6,000? How about $600? $60? $6? What of $0.6? Want to put a value on his life?

@Davidylan,

What a phony this guy is. The aim of CIGNA is to provide "greatest service" at minimal cost? No their aim is to GENERATE PROFIT FOR SHAREHOLDERS, if they do so by providing minimal service then the better. Why do you think the elderly are all on medicare? Its cheaper and the insurance companies wont take them anyway!

The same reason why Car insurance is more expensive for Teens. It is only common sense that health insurance for the elderly will be more expensive than for younger people because they receive more care. See, insurance is given based on a measure of risk. That is what the market dictates. The premium on my life insurance was determined based on my health, smoking status, lifestyle and a number of other factors. We expect those common sense application in other areas but think they should be ignored for healthcare?

You say you have a healthy family . . . thank God for your life. If you had a child born with congenital problems and you couldnt secure health insurance for him on the basis of pre-existing conditions you wont be defending Ed Hanway and his gang.

That is not true. My healthcare covers my kids from the moment they were born. That was a risk taken by the insurance company and they would have been hooked if my kids had health issues.

The birth of our first child was a difficult one. My wife was in the hospital for about 3 days before we eventually had a C-section. Guess what our final bill was? Try $30,000. Eventually, all I paid out of pocket was less than $2,000. For the five years I have been in the Unted States, I don't think I have paid up to $30,000 to my insurance company. So what is all this story about insurance companies coming to get you?

@naliakar,

What has my tribe got to do with your pursuit of JeSoul? Your refernce to it betrays your innermost thoughts. I hate tribalism as much as I hate racism. Be it the minority on the majority or vice versa.

@tpia,

does this person seem sane, to you?

Depends on who you ask.

@Ibime,

Your Eldorado is rubbished by the reality that is revealed in the article I posted above.  Not only are you denied needed medicine becuase of cost, the cost of providing healthcare has doubled in Britain too in the past 10 years.  Was that caused by the American Cartels too? 

All your fear mongering about cartels is just that: fear mongering.  If anyone could offer the same services for much less, they will do so and put those guys out of business for good.  If economics dictates that those services can be replicated for half the price offered by existing providers, someone will be a billionaire overnight to do just that.  Prices have gone up in Britain as much as in the US, so of what good is the govt other than telling poor people their lives are not worth $60,000?

@pres-elect,

i'm tired of debating this health thing. my greatest discouragement is the fact that the people who the govt is trying to help are not being forceful like the paid mobs from the right. if i'm poor and ill, i'll rather have the US govt handle my health care than the CEOs of Health Organisations who are only interested in their pockets.

I thot I'll address this because it is a legitimate concern.

Unlike you, I'll prefer the CEOs than the govt.  The CEOs are in business to provide a service.  Their aim is to provide the greatest service for a minimal cost. They are always under pressure to give more service for less amount because of market competition.  Anyone with outragwous bill for little services will be out of business real quick.  As for the govt however, there aim is to retain power at all cost.  Service is not their concern, neither is your welfare.  The article I posted earlier suggests the bottomline for the govt too is money.  But unlike the CEO, the govt has no competition.  You can only appeal from the govt to the govt. If you don't like what one CEO does, you go to the next one simple.

There is nothing wrong with profit.  Desire for profit drives innovation and eliminates wastes.  Do you know that of the $1 billion set aside for cash for clunkers, more than 10% of it went into administration?  Do you think that will ever happen in a private company?  I don't think so.  The CEO makes his profit by eliminating waste and taking a cut from the money he saves.  For instance, if I run the C4C program as a CEO and only administer the program for 5% of the total cost and requests 1% as compensation, I trust people like you will be crying foul play for the $10 million windfall.  Unkown to you through my skills, I saved you $40 million.  This is the truth that they hide from you when they are talking about parachuting.

@Pres-elect,

health care is attached to life and every human being on this planet should have access to good health care, food, water, housing.

Yet a lot of people make plans to acquire everything you listed above and yet ignore their health. I have a very healthy family and yet I pay a lot every month for health insurance. I do so because health insurance should be just that - insurance. Many choose to not be insured and are waiting for free healthcare from the govt.

Whether requested at the point of use or not, no one is denied healthcare in the US at the clinics. You go there, you receive treatment. I know of at least two Nigerians who came to the US to give birth to their kids. Both used the hospital resources and drugs and never paid a dime. They were not denied care for not having money. Unlike your folks in Britain, no Bureaucrat sat down to determine if they should be give epidureal or not. No one quantified the value of their comfort and well-being in dollars. That is how things should be.

Healthcare is not a right. If it was, theose people in Britain would have gone to court and won hands-down with the argument that the govt was denying them their fundamental human right.

@topic,

By the way, did you notice the rising cost of healthcare in Britain as well as noted in the article? Are the greedy American Insurance companies manipulating the market in England too?

What do you think will happen in another 10 years when the cost quadruples? More care or less? Siddon there they wait for fee healthcare.

@Pres-elect,

Your attempt at dehumanising me is just pitiful. You think you care more for people because you voice pity in your responses? You guys simply have no clue.

Now you are begining to change the goal post. I prefer the US situation where I know my life is in my hands instead of waiting for some Bureaucrats to determine whether my life is vvaluable or not. Tell me, do you think Gordon brown would have been denied those drugs if he was in need of it? There you go, one life is more valuable than others to you guys as long as the politics of that life is in line with yours.

No system is perfect. Health care is not a human right. It is ludicrous to think it is.

@topic,

I'll try and repost, again.

Nov. 17 (Bloomberg) -- Jack Rosser's doctor says taking Pfizer Inc.'s Sutent cancer drug may keep him alive long enough to see his 1-year-old daughter, Emma, enter primary school. The U.K.'s National Health Service says that's not worth the expense.

Rosser, 57, was told the cost of Sutent, 3,140 pounds ($4,650) per treatment for his advanced kidney cancer, was too high for the NHS -- the government agency that funds the nation's health care. The resident of the town of Kingswood, in southwest England, has appealed the decision twice, and next month may find out if his second plea is successful.

``It's immoral,'' Rosser's wife, Jenny, said. ``They are sentencing him to die.''

The NHS, which provides health care to all Britons and is funded by tax revenue, is spending about 100 billion pounds this fiscal year, or more than double what it spent a decade ago, as the cost of treatments increase and the population ages. The higher costs are forcing the NHS to choose between buying expensive drugs for terminal patients and providing more services for a wider number of people.

About 800 of 3,000 cancer patients lose their appeals for regulator-approved drugs each year because of cost, Canterbury- based charity Rarer Cancers Forum said. The U.K. is considering whether to make permanent a preliminary ruling that four medicines, including Sutent, are too expensive to be part of the government-funded treatment of advanced kidney cancer.

`It's Outrageous'

For more outrageousness, please see - http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601110&sid=aYPuCa1iuxG8

@topic,

What happened to my last post?

@naliakar,

Do not take it seriously. You know Orly Taitz ppears to be a mental case.
Where are you Je Soul my dear? I made you an offer of a drink in Cambridge and I have not heard from you in this regard. Has Tayo placed some Yoruba charm on you or what? That would be tragic.

Why am I not surprised that you are one of those tribalists? Little wonder you have some racist tendencies.

@David and Pres-elect,

I have tried hard to avoid saying much about Canada and the UK's healthcare system because I do not know much about them. Common sense teaches me that Universal Health Care will fail. While I have heard a lot about the ills faced by people seeking healthcare in those countries, I find it hard to use some of the postings here because I do not have a firsthand experience. However, to counter some of the absurdity you guys have posted here regarding superior healthcare in Britain and Canada, I will post some articles here that refute such claims. Let's start with the following:

Cancer Patients Lose Shot at Longer Life in U.K. Cuts (Update1)

Nov. 17 (Bloomberg) -- Jack Rosser's doctor says taking Pfizer Inc.'s Sutent cancer drug may keep him alive long enough to see his 1-year-old daughter, Emma, enter primary school. The U.K.'s National Health Service says that's not worth the expense.

Rosser, 57, was told the cost of Sutent, 3,140 pounds ($4,650) per treatment for his advanced kidney cancer, was too high for the NHS -- the government agency that funds the nation's health care. The resident of the town of Kingswood, in southwest England, has appealed the decision twice, and next month may find out if his second plea is successful.

``It's immoral,'' Rosser's wife, Jenny, said. ``They are sentencing him to die.''

The NHS, which provides health care to all Britons and is funded by tax revenue, is spending about 100 billion pounds this fiscal year, or more than double what it spent a decade ago, as the cost of treatments increase and the population ages. The higher costs are forcing the NHS to choose between buying expensive drugs for terminal patients and providing more services for a wider number of people.

About 800 of 3,000 cancer patients lose their appeals for regulator-approved drugs each year because of cost, Canterbury- based charity Rarer Cancers Forum said. The U.K. is considering whether to make permanent a preliminary ruling that four medicines, including Sutent, are too expensive to be part of the government-funded treatment of advanced kidney cancer.

`It's Outrageous'

``It's outrageous,'' said Kate Spall, a full-time activist who has helped about 100 patients appeal NHS denials of cancer medicines. ``We are not asking for anything new or exciting or novel. We are asking for what the rest of the western world is getting.''

To help curb expenses, the government created the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence, known as NICE, in 1999 to review medicines and recommend whether the NHS should fund them.

``There is a view that all treatments should be available. Unfortunately, that's not possible,'' said Peter Littlejohns, NICE's clinical and public health director. ``There is a limited pot of money.''

He said the four cancer drugs provide a ``marginal benefit at quite often an extreme cost'' and that the agency had to keep in mind that funds spent on the medicines could be used elsewhere to help others at a greater value. ``Those are the hidden patients, the ones who benefit from the things the NHS does spend money on,'' Littlejohns said.

NICE Review

NICE is reviewing its Aug. 7 preliminary recommendation that Sutent, Roche Holding AG and Genentech Inc.'s Avastin, Bayer AG and Onyx Pharmaceuticals Inc.'s Nexavar, and Wyeth's Torisel shouldn't be funded in light of their cost of 20,000 pounds to 39,000 pounds a year per patient. All four medicines have been approved by European and U.S. regulators and are sold in other countries as well. A final ruling is expected in March.

While a drug is under review, the decision whether to pay for a therapy falls to the NHS's 156 local organizations, called trusts.

Of the 3,000 applications for exceptional funding for cancer patients a year, the most-requested drug was Sutent, said the Rarer Cancers Forum, which focuses on cancer cases that fall outside the more common ones such as colon, breast, lung and prostate.

Sutent, which stops cancer cells from dividing and chokes off a tumor's blood supply, was first approved for European use in July 2006. Kidney cancer sufferers taking the drug had a median survival rate of 26.4 months, according to a study presented at the American Society of Clinical Oncology in May.

Five Years to Live

New York-based Pfizer provided NICE with Sutent cancer- survival data that were released after its review began to try to persuade the agency to reverse its decision, and has offered to make the first treatment free, company spokeswoman Emily Bone said.

On Nov. 4, the government proposed giving NICE more flexibility in approving higher-cost drugs and allowing patients to buy the medicines themselves without losing access to government-funded health care. Final recommendations on the proposals aren't due until early next year and Rosser can't wait that long for his medicine, Spall said.

Rosser, of Kingswood, England, was diagnosed with cancer four days after Emma was born in July 2007. After operations in August and March to remove a kidney, adrenal glands and bone tumors, he was told he might live two to five years. In July, he was told by doctors that Sutent would help, but the South Gloucestershire Primary Care Trust said it wouldn't pay for the treatment.

`Very Expensive'

``I read the letter and I burst into tears,'' said Rosser, who was forced to retire from his air-conditioning and sheet- metal company because of the illness.

South Gloucestershire, the trust that includes Rosser's home, accepts applications for Sutent funding only for exceptional cases, said Ann Jarvis, director of commissioning at the trust, in an e-mail. ``Unfortunately for very expensive drugs, if they are proven to only provide a small benefit we have to prioritize other treatments.''

The trust plans to review its Sutent policy at a meeting next month, spokeswoman Sue Pratt said today.

Kidney cancer patient Kathleen Devonport, a 65-year-old retired factory worker, called it ``heartbreaking'' to have to beg her local health officials to provide her with Sutent. The County Durham Primary Care Trust, in northern England, initially turned her down in March 2007, then agreed to supply the Sutent seven months later only after she responded to a cheaper medicine paid for by an anonymous donation.

Offer Vetoed

Jenny Rosser, 41, said she is looking into getting her husband into a clinical trial for Sutent, but so far she has been told that his cancer would need to advance further to qualify.

Meanwhile, he is surviving on painkillers coupled with steroids for inflammation after vetoing his wife's offer of selling the house to pay for his treatments. In late October, he had another operation to remove growths on his spine and neck.

J[b]enny Rosser said the policies seem aimed more at saving cash than treating people.[/b]

``It seems like a money-saving exercise,'' she said. ``If a patient dies, tough.'' - http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601110&sid=aYPuCa1iuxG8What a well run govt program!!!!!!

@Davdylan,

Tayo, your own article summarises the problem with a lot of you. why were parents with private insurance dropping out to opt for the government held insurance? Because private insurance is simply not providing any better service for the dollar!

If i can get better coverage and pay only $7 per doctor's visit then why pay $1000 a month for healthcare that is only there as long as i dont fall sick? Do you now see the problem now?

The way Hawaii was running theirs makes no sense, in other countries healthcare isnt free either. You basically get the cost deducted from your pay check!

Sems like we are looking at this from differenet angles.

Hawaii basically shows you what happens when anything is free - abuse sets in.  When healthcare is free, you create an artificial demand.  Unfortunately, supply will not keep up.  And to meet everyone's needs, Doctors will look for shortcuts and we all end up not getting adequate care.  You will find people goint ot see the Doctor for flimsy reasons because it costs them nothing.

Let the govt take over healthcare and you will see 90% of people dropping their current insurance for the govt option which they really are not getting free because they will be taxed for it.  That will overwhelm the system really quick.

Shey the govt ran out of money in implementing cash for clunkers program in just one week of inception.  Now the program will cost at least 3 times what they envisioned. Multiply the anticipated cost of the proposed Universal Healthcare by 3 to begin to have another idea of its real cost.

@Davidylan,

I am disappointed in you with the way you vilify Doctors as if they are the Villains here.  These are people who have sworn to help the needy regardless of their ability to pay or not.  No one, I repeat no one is ever denied treatment in a US clinic because of an inability to pay.  That just does not happen.  Should Doctors be compensated for their work? No doubt Yes.  Do you realise how much the average Doctor owes for educational bills just to become a Doctor? Such risks shoudl be matched with the right compensation.

People like Clinton collect $250,000 just to deliver a speech.  If you ask me, I think what the Doctors do is more valuable than what Clinton and co do, and yet these people get paid more than Doctors.

Doctors have the ability to monitor their practice without govt intervention.  I am an Engineer and we monitor and regulate our practice ourselves.  It's an insult for a Bureaucrat in Washington to tell me how to practice my profession.  Obama needs to apologise to Doctors for insinuating they carry out procedures just for profit.  I've worked on many projects where we've actually lost money.  Our overiding goal is to produce safe and economic products and I believe same is true for Doctors.  Whether we run at a loss doing so notwithstanding.

If you really care about bringing the cost of healthcare down, ask your Democrat colleagues for TORT reform.  See how quickly they will shout you down. Yet, the fear of lawsuit drives many Doctors to carry out a lot of costly tests just to cover their behind.  They pay so much in insurance in case of a lawsuit.  And of course, they have to save up enough money becuase they will lose their licences if so many legal cases arise against them; irrespective of whether they are found guilty or not!

@Pres-elect,

So Bush was running the VA as a private citizen ko? You need to take a break from carrying bricks for Pharaoh. It's not helping you think straight.

As usual, the Govt solution to every problems is to throw more money at it. It does not matter whether the money was judicioulsy spent in the first place or not. Tax and spend is the order of the day. What happens when they throw more money at VA affairs, more at mass-transit, military, universal health care, cash for clunkers etc? Where will the money come from? Printing Presses?

JeSoul mentioned what happened to MA's helath program. here is one that happend in Hawaii also. Hasn't there been enough trial runs that became failures to make a reasonable person rethink.

HONOLULU (AP) - Hawaii is dropping the only state universal child health care program in the country just seven months after it launched.
Gov. Linda Lingle's administration cited budget shortfalls and other available health care options for eliminating funding for the program. A state official said families were dropping private coverage so their children would be eligible for the subsidized plan.


"People who were already able to afford health care began to stop paying for it so they could get it for free," said Dr. Kenny Fink, the administrator for Med-QUEST at the Department of Human Services. "I don't believe that was the intent of the program."

State officials said Thursday they will stop giving health coverage to the 2,000 children enrolled by Nov. 1, but private partner Hawaii Medical Service Association will pay to extend their coverage through the end of the year without government support.

"We're very disappointed in the state's decision, and it came as a complete surprise to us," said Jennifer Diesman, a spokeswoman for HMSA, the state's largest health care provider. "We believe the program is working, and given Hawaii's economic uncertainty, we don't think now is the time to cut all funding for this kind of program."

Hawaii lawmakers approved the health plan in 2007 as a way to ensure every child can get basic medical help. The Keiki (child) Care program aimed to cover every child from birth to 18 years old who didn't already have health insurance—mostly immigrants and members of lower-income families.

It costs the state about $50,000 per month, or $25.50 per child—an amount that was more than matched by HMSA.

State health officials argued that most of the children enrolled in the universal child care program previously had private health insurance, indicating that it was helping those who didn't need it.

The Republican governor signed Keiki Care into law in 2007, but it and many other government services are facing cuts as the state deals with a projected $900 million general fund shortfall by 2011.

While it's difficult to determine how many children lack health coverage in the islands, estimates range from 3,500 to 16,000 in a state of about 1.3 million people. All were eligible for the program.

"Children are a lot more vulnerable in terms of needing care," said Democratic Sen. Suzanne Chun Oakland. "It's not very good to try to be a leader and then renege on that commitment."

The universal health care system was free except for copays of $7 per office visit.

Families with children currently enrolled in the universal system are being encouraged to seek more comprehensive Medicaid coverage, which may be available to children in a family of four earning up to $73,000 annually.

These children also could sign up for the HMSA Children's Plan, which costs about $55 a month.

"Most of them won't be eligible for Medicaid, and that's why they were enrolled in Keiki Care," Diesman said. "It's the gap group that we're trying to ensure has coverage."

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D93SBEUG0&show_article=1

@topic,

Pres-elect said the following:  "i thought they said the govt cant run anything"

His schizophrenic half  now said the following:

how about the veterans, many of them are white. they are not treated well when they return. i once went to a vetran affairs hospital in ohio last 2yrs. i wanted to cry. my relative was working there and i saw how soldiers were treated. even the way they talk to them. and i'm not talking about the deception in thier documents they signed b4 joining military with regards to benefits they thought they will recieve when they come home. they are whites too. and yet they usually vote republicans

If they can't even treat the veterans well, how will they take care of the rest of the population?