₦airaland Forum

lexy2014:
When d Bible used Christ&d church to explain marriage, it didn't say d man&d woman have Christ's attributes of wisdom & righteousness or that d husband is or should b omnipresent, omniscient or omnipotent. It only used that as a model, an example which couples should follow, hence ephesians 5:22-33. I thought that was explicit enough. Then pls relate that 2 how I defined r.ships. it will make better sense.

if u say that job is an entirely human construct, pls I will like to read how u came about that.

U said this:

"And I must say submission in the present day Nigerian context is a warped disorientation of God's intended purpose.
You don't see the ill-treatments because you have conciously chosen to be oblivious to the obvious reality of so many."

Let me ask:
1) how is submission in present day Nigerian context a warped disorientation of Gods intended purpose? What is Gods intended purpose?
2)what are those illtreatments u are talking about? Is Ephesians 5:28-29 not adequate enough 2 make provision 4d avoidance of illtreatment?
3) what is d obvious reality?

Good that you agree that the relationship between the Church and Christ is a Model. Which needs no further explanation.

The Topic of the thread was Jesus being an example of someone that showed gender equality.
For u to have found my post which was a reply to what I thought was an incoherent explosive reply, you won't tell me you didn't read through his comments and the other demented comments.

If you don't see a big problem with the disposition of those who commented on the thread, it's quite sad. But then again Nigerians are not known to be deep nuanced thinkers.

I'll ask you are Men and Women equal?

lexy2014:
which translation are u referring to?

I asked u a simple question twice, "is a wife's submission to her husband any less dignifying to a husband loving her"? All I expected from u was a simple yes or no but instead u are going back &forth even though u said u don't want to go back&forth. I also took u 2d same Ephesians 5 but to 28-29 for further emphasis and to prove d selective reading theory. But obviously, what u are accusing me of, u haven't been able to show that u aren't guilty of it.

Again, u had earlier said that work r/ship is a "human construct" and I was able to prove u wrong with scriptures that it isn't. What makes work r/ship different from marital r/ship? U seem 2b oblivious of d fact that as long as @ least 2 individuals interact with each other, there's a r/ship. U said this about marriage:

"This relationship is as a result of two people making a conscious decision to come together in a spiritual, soul and physical bond."

Does an employee & employer not make a conscious decision to come together? Yes or No? D objectives might b different but there's a word u used up there, RELATIONSHIP. If u don't understand d word r.ship&what it entails, how do u then defend ur position? So whether it is marital, business, diplomatic, political, religious, transient, etc as long as it involves d interaction of at least 2 individuals, it is a r.ship. and I told u that every r.ship has 3 things, roles, responsibilities&entitlement and let me add, expectations.and Ephesians 5 from 22 outlined those roles&responsibilities and emphasized it again in verse 33. That's y I also used d work r.ship 2 help u understand d concepts of roles, responsibilities, entitlement & expectations.

What I expected of u was 2 trash this theory with ur own facts. Critique what I said and let's no if it is not valid. Funny enough, u didnt come near it. instead u seem 2 have a grudge with d word "submission" and anyone u think is promoting it.

In ur previous post, u acknowledged that marriage was instituted by God. If that is ur position, then Gods position is explicit in Ephesians 5:22-33 as to d roles&responsibilities of couples to themselves. If u noticed,d message of verse 21, didn't reoccur in verses 22-33. So if 21 was meant 4 married couples, then it would have been reemphasized between 22-33. But what u have between 22-33 is strictly repetition and emphasis of love&submission between wife&husband without d message of 21.

If that is d case, I don't c where ur claims of oppression or illtreatment are coming from. Ephesians 5:28-29 is unambiguous and puts 2 bed any claims of oppression or ill treatment. With it, there should b no reason 4a woman 2 feel oppressed or ill treated. But as I noted earlier, its just a case of selective reading. Let me conclude with this question again: is a woman submitting to her husband any less dignifying than a husband loving her"?

Submission isn't less dignifying than the command of love. I would go further and say; love shows itself in submission, and submission in love.
Marriage is a mirror of Christ and the church. But also mirror images aren't exactly the same. You should know that...

Christ is God incarnate - all knowing, all present, almighty
A husband isn't, for obvious reasons.
And just to add to that the wife and her husband are of coequal essence. So in the real world (which isn't just black and white) and which I sense you might be having trouble connecting with the Bible for daily human interactions -
Wisdom is finite in both the husband and the wife,
unlike Christ who is all knowing
both the husband and the wife are testimonies of God's mercy and grace,
again unlike Christ, is the embodiment of righteousness, something that no man can boast of outside of Christ and so on.

And I must say submission in the present day Nigerian context is a warped disorientation of God's intended purpose.
You don't see the ill-treatments because you have conciously chosen to be oblivious to the obvious reality of so many.
The twisting of God's word for control and manipulation prevalent in the Nigerian societal structure.
If you hold submission in such high esteem it shouldn't be a problem for you to exercise it with your significant other. Because I do.

I'm choosing to ignore your extensive digression on what a relationship is, cuz obviously my stance is tackling more than just the superficial details you've decided to latch on to.

And again like I said the first time ... The conditions surrounding a Job is a human construct.
But again you decided to give a lecture on how work is God's institution explaining the obvious.

lexy2014:
In d translations u are referring to, did verse 21 come under d heading " Instructions for Christian households "?

U talked about "rules of engagement" as defined in d employment contract. Am sure u referring to conditions of employment and job description. Am sure d analysis I will provide below will clear this up. D question I asked was would u expect ur employer who is ur church member to submit to u in d office just because d Bible says "submit to one another"?

Work r/ships aren't just human constructs. They have deep spiritual significance. God worked and d first set of instructions to man was b fruitful, multiply, replenish d earth, till it and have dominion over it. This involves work and 4u to work u will have work r/ships. because of this, God set out guidelines 4 this r/ship. In Colossians 3:22-25 it talks about how our work to our employers is also service to God(u c its not just a human construct) but it went further to outline in Col 4:1 what d employer must do 4 his employee with its own spiritual significance. Also check 1 Tim 5:18 and Deuteronomy 24:14-15. D employee & employer both have a burden to carry 4 each other.

Now let's bring this to marriage in Ephesians 5. If u noticed, theres something common in d above r/ship: roles&responsibility. 4 every role, comes responsibility. That means cos u are this, u must do this. But it also comes with entitlement. As d employee is expected to work, he or she is expected to b paid.

Same thing in marriage. Husband: love, wife:submit. Roles&responsibilities. Its that simple. D question is this: is a wife submitting 2 her husband any less dignifying than d husband loving her? This is y I talked about selective reading earlier. Pls check Eph 5:28-29. If that is d responsibility assigned 2a man toward his wife, then what else do feminists want? I ask again, is a wife submitting to her husband any less dignifying than a man loving her?

"In d translations u are referring to, did verse 21 come under d heading " Instructions for Christian households?"
yes it does. - you should know this, since you read the exchange between the other guy and I.

I have no time to keep going back and forth.
In a nutshell, Submission isn't the issue here, the Issue is you or anyone coming up to me saying wives are to submit and Husbands are not, when clearly the Bible first commands submission to one another in reverence to Christ.
And then goes on to elaborate
It tells me that you deem submission as lesser contrary to what you might be leading on
In a loving, considerate. power-struggle free relationship, submission is displayed in the act of coming together, in the acceptance of dos and don'ts of the other person for a successful union to happen.

If submission is so highly esteemed by you why do you have an issue with a husband equally submitting to his wife?
And no, the relationship between a Wife and her husband isn't analogous to that of an employee and the employer, it is much closer to a partnership where all hand are on deck.

A wife as not been hired neither has the husband. This relationship is as a result of two people making a conscious decision to come together in a spiritual, soul and physical bond.


Feminism has been a movement in response to the ill treatment of women in life. It doesn't take too much to figure out that when a group of people have been taken advantage of for so long, sooner or later they'll fight everyone ideology that allowed for their oppression.

lexy2014:
because there again u read just verse 21 and not d preceding verses to no y& to whom d instructions in verse 21 was given. Let's assume 4 once that u are correct that verse 21 says we all should submit irrespective of where we are. Let's say u are in d same church with ur boss. In church u both submit to each other. When u get 2d office will u still expect him 2 submit 2u cos d Bible said "submit to one another out of reverence 4 Christ"?

"because there again u read just verse 21 and not d preceding verses to no y& to whom d instructions in verse 21 was given."
There you go jumping the gun by concluding I read verse 21 by itself.
Some translations of the bible if you had taking note have verse 21 attached to 20, Some others have it just before verse 22 subheading "Instructions for Christian household".
The church (instituted by God) and I mean the coming together of believers is not a location defined engagement.
Marriage (also Instituted by God) is a secondary label some Christians bear - a representation of Christ and the Church.

Your Job and the relationship you have with your boss is a human construct. In which I'd hope the rules of engagement is well defined in the employment contract.

Yes In marriage God as called wives to submit and Husbands to love, but to think the wive is not required to also love and for the Husband to submit is to have ones head in the sand.

alBHAGDADI:
You quoted the Bible out of context. That verse says we are to submit as Christians when we are together. But you twisted it to mean husband and wives should submit to each.

The Bible proved you wrong in the following verses when it stated what a wife should do, which is to SUBMIT, while the husband is to LOVE his wife. If that verse you quoted out of context was really talking about the marriage scene, then the succeeding verses would have stated that men should submit to their wives also, but it didn't.

lexy2014:
he took time out 2 spell out his position&didn't relent despite u don't agree with him. Y are u hesitating in doing same?

Wisdom is knowing when to continue to engage lest one being thought of as being the opposite.
he said and I quote "That verse says we are to submit as Christians when we are together. But you twisted it to mean husband and wives should submit to each."

You have the liberty to go read the particular scripture yourself (Ephesians 5)
assuming the sole verse 21 that I quoted was talking about Christians submitting when they're are together (I hope you are starting see the illogicality of this inference)

why would an instruction be given in once instance and then contradicted in another?
"so as christian brothers and sisters we are to submit when we are together"
but as Husbands and wives (while still Christians by the way).....only the woman should submit?

alBHAGDADI:
You quoted the Bible out of context. That verse says we are to submit as Christians when we are together. But you twisted it to mean husband and wives should submit to each.

The Bible proved you wrong in the following verses when it stated what a wife should do, which is to SUBMIT, while the husband is to LOVE his wife. If that verse you quoted out of context was really talking about the marriage scene, then the succeeding verses would have stated that men should submit to their wives also, but it didn't.

It is obvious that even if I took the time to spell it out for you, you still would not get it.

alBHAGDADI:
That is the previous verse which was talking about how the Christian gold should act, it wasn't talking about marriage. When that chapter now talked about marriage, it said wives should summit.
.So in essence, we are to all submit in a Christian gathering, burning a marriage, it is the wife that should submit to her husband.

When you reply, pls know what you're talking about. I don't argue for just the sake of it.

I quoted the Bible plain and simple and you're telling me it is not what it says but something else?

alBHAGDADI:
You and Chimamanda should keep shut.

Jesus Christ said wives should be submissive to their husband because he is the head of the wife. Feminism kicks against that.

Ephesians 5:22-33 (KJV)

22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;


Wives are to submit and Husbands are to love. That is what Jesus passed on to his disciples which Satan is trying to change today.

you need to calm down bro.... you sound like you're taking it a little too personal

Apostle Paul wrote the letter.

and prior to verse 22
Ephesians 5:21-33 New International Version (NIV)
Instructions for Christian Households
"21 Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ." - this is often left out, you start to wonder why?

I know why.....when you don't have control over yourself and your emotions you start to find ways to control others.

donstan18:
Social media opinions cannot change tradition, we should stop deceiving ourselves with these bride price blah blah blah.

If as a man,you are charged higher than you can pay to marry, you simply back-off since you can't afford it, not ranting because of your inability to meet up the needed requirements, afterall some tribes don't charge high.

And as a woman, once a man pay your bride price to wife you, have it in mind that your submissiveness isn't negotiable.

Tradition is tradition and social media can't change it.

Every once in a while try to think outside of the box and stop letting the customs and traditions laid by humans just like you govern your thoughts and actions just because they came before you.

Just a suggestion.

colossus91:
its sad some so called "learned" people want to use their learnedness to replace our culture,first religions,now culture....soon they will come and tell us to embrace homosexuality, its shameful that we as Africans have always have or portrayed second class in all ramifications,we should learn to stand our ground,bride price is a life long tradition that shkuldnt be abolished...if u cannot afford tk marry crom somewhere please leave and stop embarrassing yourself,as if everybody can become the Nkgerian president....my thoughts tno

Every once in a while try to think outside of the box and stop letting the customs and traditions laid by humans just like you govern your thoughts and actions just because they came before you.

Just a suggestion.