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Martinez39: Big fan here. Are you subscribed too? |
budaatum:Maybe i do so pls don't syh! |
To be clear, this is an argument that assumes the existence of a god, and the attributes of the god are based solely on scientific observation of the observable universe. Assuming a god, here are the tentative conclusions I would draw. 1. God does not care about humans. Reason: The observable universe is vast and almost entirely hostile to human or animal life. 2. God does not have a human morality. Reason: The existence of suffering and death, particularly for humans we consider blameless like babies. The non-intervention of god in genocides. 3. God is not actively evil, or at least is hiding its evil actions. Reason: No proof of supernatural visitations of evil on earth, for examples hordes of demons, etc. 4. God is chaotic. Reason: The vast complexity of the universe, quantum mechanics, fractals, etc. This is all a bit tongue in cheek, but hopefully creates some interesting debate. I'm an HP Lovecraft fan, so I'll add that a sleeping Cthulhu also counts as chaotic neutral, until it wakes up ![]() CAPSLOCKED Johnydon22 IAmSabrina |
Why are we made of food? Why did god make us edible? If god gave humans dominion over everything on earth, why are people made of food? Why are humans made of meat? Why didn’t god make us out of silicon, or metal, or something that can’t be eaten alive? We are constantly being eaten by bacteria, parasites, mosquitoes, and for much of our history, wild animals. We were told to rule over the animal kingdom but god made us out of animal food. Adam, the man set to rule animals, would have been made of animal food too. But why? Did god anticipate Adam’s fall and make him meaty from the get go? If we are made in gods image, is he made of meat too? If not, why couldn’t he have done the same for us, instead of making us tasty to parasites? Being made of meat makes no sense from the perspective of a loving god. However, it makes perfect sense from an evolutionary standpoint. We’re made of the most common elements in the universe, which we can observe being formed through nuclear fusion all around us in stars. Every living creature on earth is made of these exact materials. Every organism has DNA, and every living creature shares DNA in common. So it makes sense that we’re edible, because food is just the proteins, carbs, and fats that we’re all made of, which can be rearranged in our bodies to perform essential functions. Plants and animals are made of the same stuff we are, that’s why we eat them. And we’re made of the same stuff they’re made out of, that’s why plants and animals eat us (although most plants don’t eat us quite the same way). Why would god make his children, his creatures that stand out above all else, made out of the same nutrition filled lion snacks as any other flesh? Computers and robots don’t need to eat food. They don’t need to drink water, or breathe. They can withstand cold temperatures, don’t need sleep, and run on electricity. We also know computers can outperform humans in nearly every kind of calculation, and continue to improve exponentially. There’s no reason to believe that, if equipped with the right sensors and programs, it could experience thought and emotion. And, it wouldn’t be food. No wolf wants to chomp down on Wall-e, but look at him falling in love and appreciating art. Of course, that’s a silly example, but the point is, it would be entirely possible, even in our “limited human minds”, to create a being that can feel and emote without being made of meat. So why aren’t we, if we were created by something far more intelligent than us? Martinez39 IAmSabrina LordReed 1Sharon |
Leviticus 15 states if any man's seed of copulation go out from him, then he shall wash all his flesh in water, and be unclean until the even. And every garment, and every skin, whereon is the seed of copulation, shall be washed with water, and be unclean until the even.So you just need to take a bath and wash your clothes Now, some Christians will be ready to quote Matthew 5: whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.In the days before the internet, a lot of masturbation took place without pornography. Technically, it only counts as "adultery" if the woman is married. Still, a strict interpretation of Matthew 5 would apply if you're out girl-watching at the beach. And, a woman has to doll herself up, and cause men to lust after her in their hearts, if she is to have any chance of breeding. At least in the Western World, we have moved away from arranged marriages. In Saudi Arabia, where men and women are strictly separated, there is much less opportunity to look at and lust after women. Per Matthew 19: If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.Why deny a man his pornography, if you aren't going to sell everything that you have and give the money to the poor? An especially popular passage for Catholics is Genesis 38: And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother. And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother. And the thing which he did displeased the Lord: wherefore he slew him also.The issue here wasn't the wasted sperm--it was that Onan was specifically supposed to impregnate his brother's wife, and he didn't want his brother to have any heirs. If God really did have an issue with men spilling their seed willy-nilly, then God would have said so elsewhere in the Bible, particularly in the Torah, and most particularly in Leviticus 15. Another popular passage is 1 Corinthians 7: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband...Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.Paul was an asexual, but, still, the purpose of having a wife is to avoid fornication, not masturbation. And, married couples are supposed to keep at it continuously, only taking a mutually-agreed-upon break for fasting and prayer. Suppose the husband wants some, but the wife is indisposed? To prevent fornication, the wife might make another orifice available, or otherwise assist her husband with administering an ejaculation. CAPSLOCKED MuttleyLaff Johnydon22 IAmSabrina Budaatum |
Shelumiel:So you are saying: 1. taking human life is wrong 2. abortion is taking human life 3. abortion is wrong I want to talk about point 2 here. What is your definition of human life? If you say that you are in favor of the morning after pill, a fertilized egg doesnt seem to be human life. You can use the 'morning after pill' between 0 and 6 weeks after fertilization of the egg (in the EU). You can use other forms of abortion beginning at 6 weeks up to the 24th week(again, in the EU). So, you say that somewhere between 6 and 24 weeks a fertilized egg becomes human life. Can you somehow pinpoint that exactly? Because this is the most important point about abortion: in most countries it is illegal to take human life, even unborn. Abortion however is not taking human life since its happening before the point at which the unborn is considered to be human. Also, how do you feel about horrifically deformed foetuses? For example, anencephaly. Babies with this condition fail to survive, and the condition can be diagnosed with ultrasound. Armed with that knowledge, do you truly believe that it's moral to urge a mother to continue carrying around a developing foetus inside her that she knows will die? Should she really be forced to endure labour to expel that deformed creature from her? I can only imagine the psychological trauma that would cause IAmSabrina: Martinez39:The guy is a fucking dumbass ah swear |
Ihedinobi3: ![]() |
Joromi12:To be fair, the bible didn't really specify the skin colour of Adam & Eve, so i'm not sure how to answer the question. |
Vic2Ree:I also recommend Netflix's "Hot Girls Wanted" documentary that shows how the process actually works, for 18-21 years old girls getting hooked into the porn business through shady tactics. |
The porn industry is notoriously exploitative. They generally post ads that look like ads for normal acting jobs, because most women do not actively search out jobs in the porn industry. https://verilymag.com/2015/08/porn-industry-playboy-mansion-sex-trafficking-belle-knox-rashida-jones-holly-madison When you say that nothing can be morally wrong when parties consent, I would agree, with the provision that consent has to be informed. People entering the porn industry are generally not informed of what the risks are, of what they are getting themselves into. There are also links between sex trafficking and pornography. http://humantraffickingsearch.org/the-connection-between-sex-trafficking-and-pornography/ About 36% of porn stars were molested as children. They have high rates of drug and alcohol addiction. They are among most countries' most vulnerable and desperate citizens. Then they get suckered into a job that makes them less employable, in an industry rife with drugs and assault, and tends to warp people mentally. I don’t think this makes pornography wrong in itself, but the way the industry is now set up is unethical. Stronger Unions and better government oversight would be good first step. |
MrLankeeee:Martinez39 seemed to get it tho... |
An atheist dies and goes to hell... The devil welcomes him and says:"Let me show you around a little bit." They walk through a nice park with green trees and the devil shows him a huge palace. "This is your house now, here are your keys." The man is happy and thanks the devil. The devil says:"No need to say thank you, everyone gets a nice place to live in when they come down here!" They continue walking through the nice park, flowers everywhere, and the devil shows the atheist a garage full of beautiful cars. "These are your cars now!" and hands the man all the car keys. Again, the atheist tries to thank the devil, but he only says "Everyone down here gets some cool cars! How would you drive around without having cars?". They walk on and the area gets even nicer. There are birds chirping, squirrels running around, kittens everywhere. They arrive at a fountain, where the most beautiful woman the atheist has ever seen sits on a bench. She looks at him and they instantly fall in love with each other. The man couldn't be any happier. The devil says "Everyone gets to have their soulmate down here, we don't want anyone to be lonely!" As they walk on, the atheist notices a high fence. He peeks to the other side and is totally shocked. There are people in pools of lava, screaming in pain, while little devils run around and stab them with their tridents. Other devils are skinning people alive, heads are spiked, and many more terrible things are happening. A stench of sulfur is in the air. Terrified, the man stumbles backwards, and asks the devil "What is going on there?" The devil just shrugs and says: "Those are the christians, I don't know why, but they prefer it that way". Martinez39 LordReed hahn CreepyBlackpool IamSabrina hopefullandlord 1Sharon |
Two evangelicals came to my door and told me that if evolution were real, they would be able to evolve hats atop their heads on a hot day instead of needing to purchase them. Like bruh.... I was so amused that I decided to see what else they would say, and we ended up talking for a good 20 minutes, starting with a ground-level explanation of evolutionary theory. They didn't get more insane than the hat-evolution remark though. Just seemed like ignorant, deeply misled kids doing what they were told to do. As the conversation moved forward, I started applying my values-based communications training to the encounter with the goal of making them like me, then whipped it all around on the fellas at the end of our chat by revealing that I'm an atheist. They were astonished and said they thought atheists were all self-centered, unkind people. Then I gave the younger one of the two men, who looked no older than like 21 or 22, a copy of "The God Delusion" and said I didn't expect him to read it until he had questions of his own that his theology could not answer. He thanked me, and the older man complimented me on my attitude toward people with differing views. In all, it felt like I made a tiny bit of difference. ![]() |
NnennaG6:What about suicides? I think its easier to say certain people dont want to exist than to defend a statement like its better to be than not. |
@johnydon22 Thanks for the compliments, bro UyiIredia:Isn't he "perfect and eternal"? |
UyiIredia:God is an omni-x being first of all. Anything else follows after that. Given that he's an omni-x being, this suggests that he's perfect and eternal and has already attained all good ends. So why the need to create. Doesn't this imply dissatisfaction? If so, then God can't be perfect. |
MuttleyLaff:If God should concern himself with punishing people who don't worship him. Doesn't it imply that he needs them to worship him? |
Zither:What if i don't want to worship him? Why is there a punishment attached to not worshipping him? Zither:It was a response to another user. You can see you're not the only one i quoted in my last post |
Zither:So why do we bother worshipping at all? Of what purpose is worship? Zither: NnennaG6:I think the need for expression would be our impasse then. As humans, there is evidence for this need for as far back as our origins go. Other species show this need as well. My questions would be why would an omni-x being express itself, considering how we view expression? I would accept expression for its own sake, but when inferior beings come into the question, that changes everything. The whole "its better to be than not" frankly falls flat on its face. Say that to people living on a dollar a day. Say that to people that have lived short, anguish filled lives full of pain. Say it to sex slaves, manufacturing slaves, etc. And if you both believe in the concept of Hell, love does not work in this equation. |
Zither:But he specifically wants people to worship him? Isn't that a need? I don't know about you but if i created a Ferrari all by myself, then i'd say that i definitely needed one, for some reason. |
ThothHermes:SMH Based on my understanding of the word omni, it means something that is unrestricted, without limits, infinite.... As for the bible verses, here, knock yourself out Bible verses about God's omnipotence: https://www.openbible.info/topics/gods_omnipotence Bible verses about God's omniscience: https://www.openbible.info/topics/omniscience Bible verses about God's omnipresence: https://www.openbible.info/topics/omnipresence Bible verses about God's omnibenevolence: https://www.openbible.info/topics/omnibenevolence |
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ThothHermes: MuttleyLaff:@ThothHermes As MuttleyLaff put it, God as an omni-x being is infinite in nature. A lot of bible verses also support this assertion. I'm sure you know this. |
ThothHermes:Isn't that how the gods of islam & christianity are described? |
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The creative process seems inexorably tied to needs. This process surges as a result of the need to survive, compete or for expression. (It can also happen by accident...) An omni-x being, or God, by definition has no needs. One might argue that creating would go against his nature. From the Abrahamic standpoint, why would said beings create inferior beings to worship him? One could attempt an argument as follows: 1. An omni-x being has no needs or reason to create anything 2. An omni-x being would simply be. 3. The universe exists. 4. Therefore, if the universe was created, the author was an entity with a need. (Or created it by accident...) This conclusion would point to a being quite different from the omni-x God theists describe. In fact, this omni-x God seems like a classic post hoc explanation for a reality we find difficult to explain. What do you think? |
JujuSugar:@bolded- Its actual meaning (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulation_hypothesis). |
shakmati:Sure JujuSugar:No. That is the simulation argument. Simulation hypothesis simply states that we are living in a simulation. Nothing more. |
shakmati: JujuSugar:What ![]() You guys are implying that it would be impossible to say that nobody created us if the sim hypothesis was true and i demonstrated that is not the case. |
JujuSugar:I disagree with this one. If the universe is infinite, then everything that is possible to happen will happen. Then brain-in-a-vats will emerge from dumb matter. It is extremely hard for brain-in-a-vats to emerge from dumb matter, but this process will have infinite amount of time to happen. |
There have been between 2500-3000 Gods worshipped in civilization that we currently know of. Everyone to me is atheistic in some way because you choose to reject simply every other God. Yet, Gods have been proven to be merely man made creation. A form of Agent Detection that creates an ideal of survivalist beliefs in humans. |

Big fan here. Are you subscribed too?

Or can we say the bible story is false