chuksbogus: when u don't know and u do not know that you don't know then you are domed.

most of this JOHESU demands have been in the National industrial court for the past 3 yrs and when the verdict was in favour of almighty nma threatened to go on strike if federal govt implemente a court verdict, imagine?
the court said that the members of johesu is entitled to d skipping that has been in the civil service and the doctors refused saying that unless they will be allowed to skip conmess 3 .
How can u tell me that a Bsc, masters, phd holders in other health profession will not be allowed to get to do post of a director imagine cos only doctor answers medical director.
mind u that the doctors are fighting for the so called relativity meaning that a level 12 nurse should not earn almost same with a level 12 Dr. pls the nairalanders view this issues without bias. a doctor enter civil service on grade level 12 as at now nurses enters on 8 pending the approval of the new scheme of service that will allow them Bsc holder enter at 10.a level 12 nurse must have worked for 12 yrs and above before attaining that position while newly employed doctor start in 12 is the relativity not taken care of? considering how far do nurse came to be in 12? likewise pharmacy they start in 10 and need atleast 6to8 years to be in 12.

there were salary adjustments in January for both johesu and nma federal government said there is no money that they will effect it by January and every body agreed only for Drs to go for this strike and were paid 2months arrears ,where did they get the money? why didn't they pay both party 2months? is it cos one went on strike and the other didn't?

mind u they are owing members of johesu skipping arrears since 4 yrs imagine?

may be its only the group that goes on strike gets Wat they want, so we are ready to explore that option

Let me break down this issue of relativity for you. Permit me to tell it as a story:
Two jambites got admission into the University, one to read medicine, the other to read pharmacy in 2005. The pharmacist's pathway went thus (under ideal conditions and no strikes) 5 yrs of pharmacy and he graduates in 2010, did internship in 2011, NYSC in 2012, civil service on grade level 10 in 2013. After 3 yrs in civil service, he is promoted to grade level 12 in 2016.

The medical doctor's pathway went as follows (still under ideal conditions) undergraduate medicine for 7 years (yes... 7 years but 6 sessions in most Universities). graduated as medical doctor in 2012, did housemanship in 2013, NYSC in 2014. Now take a pause! New Resident doctors are usually employed every 2 years. So the doc in the above instance, depending on his luck, can be employed into civil service in 2015 or 2016 on grade level 12.

From the 2 scenarios above, u can see that those 2 jambites (one admitted into pharmacy and the other into medicine) in 2005 ended up at the same level in 2016 !!
So why is there any hype about medicine when your classmate in pharmacy, optometry, etc will end up at the same level as you?
The medicine jambite could have relaxed a bit, had a lower jamb score and entered into d other course since he will still end up at the same level with his medicine contemporaries/classmates even as a pharmacist.
Thus in our current civil service structure, there is no relativity. JOHESU tries to pull a cloak over the "eyes" of the masses by saying that there is relativity because a post-NYSC pharmacist starts at level 10 while a post_NYSC doctor starts at level 12. What they conveniently fail to say is that currently, contemporaries in both medicine and pharmacy, optometry..etc end up at the same level eventually.
The problem here is, someone (the doc in this instance) would not compare his success with his seniors but with his contemporaries/ classmates (those that read pharm, etc). So if reading medicine did not give him an edge over his classmates that read pharmacy, then there is no reason to give an arm and a leg to read medicine when he could have spent less time, effort, money..etc. To read pharmacy.

The above is the real issue with relativity.

McStoic: Pls stop quoting me if you cannot be unbiased or objective while doing that. The said oil firm employee you are talking about is already an employee and the overall template used for their own employment, when thoroughly digested are not the same like that of doctors. As per Corpers being used in elections and paid, I guess you also understand that the corpers are doing government much more favour here and not the other way round? If I am a petrochemical graduate undergoing my NYSC and you employ me temporarily to help you in organizing elections, it is only normal that you foot the bills because I am stepping out of my comfort zone to help you. The updates and exposition I receive on how to do the job are not really in line with the career I have chosen nor where I want to be as against resident doctors. YOU REALLY MAKE IT SEEM LIKE THE DOCTORS ARE BEING FORCED AGAINST THEIR OWN WILL TO DO RESIDENCY. I get your drift on there being a possible shortage of specialists in the long run, but even when you become a consultant, your years of exams and hardwork still get compensated when you get employed, so I don't know what you are on about. From my years of experience and associating with my doctor friends nay family members, one of the things I always hear many complain about is that other graduates seem to arrive to their life destinations faster than doctors (There are some doctors who did masters in public health etc. got appointments elsewhere and abandoned their steths and sphygs). I have a doctor friend who has put his residency training on hold, having become a staunch PDP youth leader. So many still who checked into other endeavours.

For your information, I have never said resident doctors should never be paid. All I am saying is that they should be paid but made to pay for their updates and medical exams. About your continual submission that government don't foot their bills, stop making some of us who are in the know seem ignorant.......Some of us here have family members who are doctors abroad. And heaven knows the costs of doing the residency there when compared to Nigeria where the government is more "Father Abrahamic". When compared to overseas, wards pay through their noses though they receive some payments. Note: There are so many doctors who are worth their onions in gold, but my distaste lies against those who seek to intimidate others or try to go against the rationale just because they deem themselves kinda higher species. Those who are really called and chosen to be doctors are not difficult to figure out if you ask me.

I really don't know where you get your information about the residency programme but it's obviously incomplete. Resident doctors pay for their updates and exams (both West Africa and National), pls get that. Since you claim to know some doctors, confirm from them.
If you read my previous post, I never said that Nigerian government don't sponsor residency. There are many aspects of residency that is financed by government but your examples (updates & exams) is not one of them.
Infact, India's health care is where it is because the government invested heavily in doctors' residency (including contracts where the doctors are sponsored by government through residency abroad after which they return to work in the country). I chose India as an example because it is a developing nation like Nigeria so it is possible for Nigeria's health care to reach that of India with government commitment. Take note that the Indian government also sponsored other health professionals.

Ps-. Nairaland is a public forum not a private website. If you don't want to be quoted, then don't post anything.

McStoic: Government does not pay for their updates courses, exams, exam materials.......Oh stop the fibs already! Only you knows what you mean by that or who you are trying to misinform. Government pays for you'll updates and exams big time. I don't wanna sound unduly confrontational, but on the hand, you know that even the so called residents who partake in the 20 surgeries you talk about are also learning. As students don't you think they ought to pay too? Na wa oooo.

When oil firms send their employees for training, aren't they paid while attending the training programme? When INEC trained corpers to conduct election, weren't the corpers paid for attending the training, and also paid again for conducting the elections? Resident doctors majorly work (also learn) in the hospitals. If they are not paid because the programme is called "residency training", then no doctor would subject himself/herself to those tedious work hours. Rather they would all get employment as medical officers and collect salaries. The long term effect would then be scarcity of specialists in various fields of medicine.
Government subsidise various aspects of residency training but not their updates or examination fees. The resident doctors foot those bills. Government play a role by paying their salaries, increasing hospital quota to accommodate more resident doctors...etc.

rhymz: Am sorry to say this but your argument is at best childish and touches the core of what this is all about; misplaced sense of importance and abilities, Nigerian doctors especially the ones just starting out always comes of with this arrogant air of being super intelligent and important than everyone else.
What exactly is the import of all this lengthy explanation to prove that a doctor can work independently with or without input of a Lab scientist
Don't you see how arrogant and defensive you sound? Trying so hard to downplay the importance and relevance of other professionals just so you can look high and mighty in the eyes of the un-derscening public.....

Whether you like to admit it or not, no one professional in the health sector can arrogate to himself the knowledge to do it all or work independently, that is bullshyte and you know this. Everybody has very key roles they play in the treatment and management of patients, a doctor can not do the job of a lab scientist or a radiologist or a pharmacist, so please save us the lengthy anecdotes, everyone is very important, simple.

I never said other people weren't important. What brought this up was a poster who said he always go to lab for a test whenever he is sick and then off to pharmacy and skips seeing a doctor. Or are you among those who would encourage such health behavior in a bid to downplay the importance of doctors?
A lot of people do just that. So can't I try to use this means to educate the public on that issue with convincing examples? Or are any of the examples I stated previously wrong?
It's already well known by everyone that lab tests are needed for managing illnesses BUT now I added " NOT IN ALL CASES". So that next time someone visits a doctor and the doc didn't order for a test, s/he won't automatically assume that the doctor is guessing or whatever but would rather ask the doctor to explain why s/he didn't order for a lab test. Same thing happens for injections (people thinking that if they haven't been given an injection, then they were not given the "real" treatment) but that's for another day.
I would say this, every health professional is important. I won't comment on the importance of other health professionals (besides the doc) on the grounds that whatever I would say would be misconstrued by already-prejudiced persons to mean an insult to other health professions.
In the UK, every family is required to register under a family physician and not under any other health professional. Nobody there ever took up arms challenging that.

rhymz: What a very misleading claim. Very misleading. The so-called medical history is mostly results from lab tests the doctor use in evaluating the patient. There is no such thing as a medical history without proper lab tests and results from such. So please slow your roll, everyone is equally as important don't try to make it look like a doctor is the alpha and omega in the treatment of patients, they won't even work without confirmations from lab test results. You obviously do not know what you are talking about or are exaggerating the importance of a doc.

Bro, check any medical text and look up what the word "management" (of an illness) means. It encompasses:
1)history. (2) physical examination. (3) provisional diagnosis (definitive diagnosis for some illnesses).( 4) investigations/ lab tests. (5) definitive diagnosis (for cases that initially had provisional diagnosis). (6) treatment.

That is the usual flow but there maybe alterations depending on the cases. The doctor does 1 and 2 first before any lab test is ordered. In a good number of cases, that is enough to start treatment. note that 1 and 2 is traditionally regarded as medical history

Let me give you an example: if a doctor sees a patient with high BP, he won't need any lab test to start treating the high BP. Lab test will be needed to assess the extent of damage the high BP has caused to the kidneys, heart, etc. Note the doctor already knows what to expect that is why he would order for maybe 3 relevant tests or so, out of the thousands of tests that exist. Should that test result come back and it's not in keeping with what the Doctor "expects" to see, it can be repeated or rejected.
Another example is if a pregnant woman comes down with symptoms of malaria but the lab test said "no malaria parasite", that woman would still be treated for malaria despite the negative lab result because malaria parasites may have concentrated in her placenta and was not detected in the lab test.

A further example, if a patient is hypertensive, diabetic and obese for instance, the doctors would start him on cholesterol-lowering meds (in addition to other drugs) without checking if the cholesterol level is high or not. I'm sure a lab scientist would insist that the doctor MUST do a cholesterol test first before starting the drugs but it's not so. The cholesterol test would come much later after the person had taken the drugs for sometime.

Finally, a HIV positive patient who has symptoms of chronic cough, fever, weight loss...etc, chest findings on examination(all symptoms of tuberculosis) can be started on anti-tuberculosis drugs without waiting for lab result.

These are just few examples, they are inexhaustible here. The point I'm trying to make is that not all illnesses require lab results for treatment. This is in opposition to what a lab scientist would say that if a doctor doesn't order lab test, he is treating you wrongly.

njokusboy:

Guy, you think like a clown.... a consultant is an expert in a field, by definition, a consultant is someone who provides expert advice professionally... except you are saying only doctors have the right to become experts...
There is nothing wrong with having a consultant nurse or a consultant pharmacists as long as they have attained a certain level of Expertise...
Look how slow you are, the lab scientists test for illnesses not Doctors, I remember how I almost died in 2009 because one doctor was just assuming diseases that were not there, it was until I went for a proper checkup that I realized I'd been treating the wrong sickness, these days I simply go to the lab, get a test result and proceed to the pharmacy... pharmacists make those drugs, mind you.... not doctors..
All this chestbeating is complete nonsense, everyone is equally important in the Medical Field, the Doctors' resolve to suppress and subjugate other medical practitioners is really misguided... The main grouse I have with these doctors is that 90% of them attended Federal Government Institutions, meaning, they were basically trained for FREE, did you get that, TRAINED FOR FREE... As student, they are already earning more than most workers in the civil service yet they come and start talking Trash... Let them not suspend the strike so people can keep dying, it's a business venture, the Hippocratic oath doesn't mean Jack.. Profit is the optimum goal, most of them have private Hospitals where they charge exorbitant prices anyway...

I'm most certain the tests you request for yourself are usually malaria and typhoid (widal) tests, maybe a sugar and urine test and you think you've got it all covered. Hope you know Widal test has been abandoned since the 1990s because its result is ambiguous? You obviously haven't been really sick because then, you will discovered how incomplete and not-so-useful those tests would be without a proper medical history(which is elucidated by Doctors because a patient may think a symptom is not relevant to the illness but a Doctor tallies all those together). To further demonstrate the place of lab tests in a patients management; ideally (eg in exams) a Doctor should not interpret a lab result unless s/he has a medical history of the said patient. Also, a lab result which is not in keeping with the clinical state of the patient ( as assessed by the Doctor) is either rejected or repeated. The above examples are standards of clinical practice. Thus, the lab result is just an aid to the Doctor's clinical assessment and NEVER a replacement to clinical assessment. In situations where lab results and clinical assessment contradict each other, clinical assessment supervenes.

datribune:


If u like go on strike till eternity, this time around ur luck has run out & u hav been sacked. U hav exposed ur geedy, selfish underbellies & no amount of extortionist strike will make nigerians allow u to continue wit d plunder. For too long because u ar an essential govt service, u hav used ur conscienceless, selfish, murderous strikes to hold d nation by d throat & extort lopsided, bogus & humongous deals out of dis hapless country. If u ar dissatisfied wit ur salary go set up a business & stop disturbing d nation by trying to use govt service to satisfy ur insatiable & rapacious greed. Did u say 3 or so American doctors working in africa? d level of dishonesty in your post is amazing. Wit ur mentality & money-mongering mindset u might like to consider selling at ariaria market than tending to d sick at general hospital.

So I made a point and ur retort was to become insulting? You couldn't even make a sensible counter-argument. You had all the time to think of something constructive to write and all you were able to come up with were insults. I'm done with you.

datribune: Good call Mr president, u got dis one right. Most nigerian doctors regard medicine as business. How many of d clinics where they carry out their private practice ar well equipped?. How come dat western doctors who were trained under d best of conditions wit d most sophisticated equipments leave d comfort of Europe to come & work in rural Africa under dis same conditions dat dis poorly trained nigerian doctors feel is beneath them. Medicine is a calling. Boot dem out so they can go get better paying jobs. Just like u, we ar fed up wit dis perpetual strike nonsense.

So because 3 or so American Doctors decided to come work in Africa, that now means that the all Foreign Doctors are selfless? Or don't you think that there's also 3 or so Nigerian Doctors who left the comfort of urban areas to go work in rural areas. Try to u visit some foreign medical schools online forums/ hospitals online forums and see what they write there... a lot of your so called "passionate" foreign doctors go into medicine for the money. in those countries, u get paid well, u do the work to the best of your ability.
. And drop that idea of Medicine being a calling. In this age, It is a job. It maybe a calling for just a very small percentage of Doctors but to the majority, it's a paycheck. I'm not talking about Nigeria but I mean all over the world. Go to doctors online forums and read their comments then you will realise medicine is just a job to many Doctors. Those other countries have a system of checks and balances that ensures you work well when you get paid.

NMA being on strike during the ebola outbreak might have even been a blessing in disguise. As Doctors were on strike, patients no longer patronised the public hospitals. I think we would be telling a different story in the country now if a single ebola patient went to a public hospital. Public hospitals where common gloves and face masks are a rarity in the accident/emergency department. I don't need to say more about the state of our public hospitals. About the suspension of Residency program, methinks the government want Resident Doctors to collect the sack letters and thereafter lift the suspension and re-engage them with "new" appointments letters carrying "new terms" which I'm sure would be geared towards preventing them clamoring for anything in the future. That's probably why NARD advised them not to collect the sack letters. All in all, a country in this age cannot exist without specialist Doctors and it's the residency program that produces specialist Doctors. Nigeria is not an "attractive" country where you can expect foreign Doctors to flock in to take those positions. Even if the government want to bring in foreign Doctors, those guys would ask for mega-pay(many times higher than what Nigeria currently pays it's highest-ranking Doctors) and the government would end up where they started; they would still spend more money on Doctors. However in this case, by increasing the number of unemployed Nigerians (Nigerian Doctors) which doesn't put any country in good light. But if Nigeria's "democratic" past is to be followed, the government simply wouldn't give a damn.

kobonaire: it's implied ... less traffic mean lower population density, fewer folks that can afford vehicles, fewer economic/job opportunities etc

less traffic might also mean a relatively well planned town. the previous governor of Akwa Ibom State was an Architect and he decongested the the central Ibom connection with a plaza and couple of bypasses. overnight the congested Ibom connection became free. what is happening here might just be an extension of a similar good town planning

prettyprettywow: Hospital administrators in USA earn very high salary, higher than the Drs. This is one aspect that is driving up the cost of health care in US today. So don't come here and say that Drs earn less as administrators, na big lie. Health workers in US that are interested in administration are getting their MBA, Drs inclusive. I have a friend that is in pharmacy school, but takes classes for her MBA during summer. So when it's time to appoint, the best man will be appointed. Where is it posited that they are trying to change that?

Pls do a google search on "why few doctors head hospitals in USA" and " role of medical doctor in the medical team (of US, UK, Canada and Australia). U might wanna modify your post after that.

drered: 235 out of 6500 hospitals, a meagre 0.04% is led by physicians and you don't think its for a reason? Even the physicians that lead this hospitals have added qualifications and leadership skills or you think this qualities are by default inherent in doctors? In saner climes they apply what works.. And what works isn't making dr's CEO just cuz they are doctors cuz if that was it, it will be expressed in the number of hospitals led by MD's..

I read an article once that Doctors in the USA shy away from becoming administrators because they earn significantly less during their administrative tenure than when they were doing clinical work. It was posited that the country is trying to change that and this was yielding results as in 2013 (or thereabout...don't crucify me, can't remember the exact year) medical Doctors made up the highest number enrolling for an MBA at Harvard Business School. you can do a google search on it.

prettyprettywow: That some hospitals are headed by Drs does not mean that it is their birth right. it means that the Drs who are in such positions have the extra requirement to lead the hospital coupled with their medical knowledge (MBA, MHA, and not just MBBS). The medical knowledge is just an added advantage. But here, Nigerian physicians do not want to acquire the relevant requirement before ascending such position. What we are saying is that MBBS is not=CEO. The researcher used the words "non-medical CEOs and professional CEOs". Get the right skills, and you can all line up for the post. If we have a medical worker with good managerial skills, experiences and relevant requirement, then he is welcomed to be CEO. And not a JJC in administration. That's my point.

Nigerians gave the physicians enough time to prove themselves, but they failed. Leadership of the hospital has been in the hands of Nigerian Physicians for decades, and look where they led us (188th out of 190) and you are here quoting research carried out in the developed world

Let me correct something you said. All current CMDS in Nigerian Teaching Hospitals/ Federal Medical Centres have an administration/ management/public health qualification in addition to MBBS and fellowship. Nobody ever said MBBS alone qualifies a Doctor to become CMD/CEO. They do have admin-related qualifications also.
About the ranking of Nigerian health sector you posted above, pls tell me any other sector in the Nigerian economy that is ranked high worldwide? That ranking is a consequence of an overall corrupt system in the WHOLE country and not just the health sector. You can't expect the health sector alone to rise out of corruption when it is an integral part of a corrupt "whole". The health sector will improve as the country gradually drops its corrupt and inefficient practices. To say the least, that argument is getting old. Health administrators would have also been mired in the same country-wide "mess" (not health sector-specific) if they were the ones heading hospitals in Nigeria.

ziga:

Thank you for your professional responses.

u're welcome.

tbatbaby: hi pharmpls i want to know if i can take NORVASC drug.i am 27years of age n av been aving high BP.i complained to a doc n he pescribed moduretic for me,buh i am aving chest pain seriously n couldnt sleep well,pls help with a gud advice!

at your age some lifestyle modifications would help reduce your BP and may even eliminate the need for drugs till very much later in life. However, if ur BP was very high, u ll need drugs to lower it. The following lifestyle changes would help :
1) exercises: mild/moderate aerobic exercises (jogging, cycling, swimming, skipping rope, etc) about 3-4 times each week. Note that the important thing here is "constancy" NOT "severity" of the exercise.
2) diet: no additional salt after cooking.
Take lots of vegetables and fruits (banana contains lots of potassium which helps BP regulation).
Reduce consumption of simple sugars like carbonated drinks even the so-called "low sugar" ones. Also reduce intake of high calorie processed foods like indomie.
Reduce alcohol intake but stop smoking totally.
Fresh Fish, turkey, chicken are preferable to red meat like beef.
3) lifestyle: lead a more active lifestyle eg stroll to the eatery/atm instead of driving; pound your crayfish/pepper instead of blending; clean the house yourself instead of having d help do it, etc.
Doing the above would start showing their effect in BP reduction in about a month, so don't be discouraged if after a week or two, it "seems" not to be working.
NORVASC is a BP drug (amlodipine actually). U need to be evaluated to determine if you would require both drugs or just one of them.
About your chest pain, it could be a number of possibilities. U should see a doctor for proper evaluation.

mamaoge: Dear Pharmacist,

How safe is it to administer tablets to children of 5-7 years of age? I read on some syrup labels that children of up to 12 years can take syrup, if so why do some hospitals give tablets (like paracetamol) to children of this age range? Can their livers cope with tablets? Pls educate us.

Thank you.

Syrup is usually sweetened to make it easier for children to swallow. What is important is the amount of "active" drug component in a particular quantity of syrup. An equivalent amount of tablet can be given if the child can swallow it. Sometimes u may be advised to dissolve the tablet with "something sweet" (thus creating a syrup) before giving to the child. Equivalent doses of tablet and syrup are the same and d child's liver will handle both the same way.

what she has is most likely incomplete abortion. This means that some "pieces" of the foetus is still left inside her uterus. Once those "pieces" (retained products) are still there, she'll continue bleeding. She will require an evacuation of those retained products for the bleeding to stop.
#note- this evacuation of the retained products can be done legitimately in any hospital in Nigeria cos her condition falls into the category of "post-abortal care". However, the initial abortion is criminal in Naija so she probably had it done clandestinely and most likely by quacks. I'm pointing this out so that u can advise her to go to a "real" hospital for proper care and not back to the previous "quack".

If it eventually comes to privatisation, the laboratories, pharmacy, radiography, etc would be privatised first before clinical services (clinics, wards, accident& emergency, theatres). This is because the clinical services are actually the reason the health facility is called a "hospital". A lab, pharmacy, radiography unit, etc can exist independently with their respective names. But if a clinic and a ward exists in a facility, that place is called a "hospital". So it would be absurd to privatise the services that make a facility a "hospital" while retaining the services whose presence alone wouldn't make the facility a hospital.

theplanmaker: as backwards as Nigeria is, we r still miles ahead of some pepo. if the disease resurfaces in Nigeria I'm very sure its spread ll b effectively curtailed

Don't be so sure.
The disease can be effectively managed in urban centres and some rural areas but not everywhere. A case point of note: Nigeria is one of the 3 countries still reporting cases of polio ( others are India and Pakistan). One of the contributing factors for this is that some rural dwellers in some parts of Northern Nigeria fear immunisation staff and are even hostile to these people, thus preventing effective immunisation coverage for which reason there are still case reports of polio in these areas. The same attitude can prevail to impair ebola control in Nigeria. I pray it shouldn't even get to that state.

adeoladrg: Brother, if pharmacists decides to go on strike too, e go bad oooo. Buh our 'oju anu' dey kill us. We've been far too undermined in this country.

Imagine all community pharmacies been closed, hospital pharmacies closed too, the worst part, we close down the industries too, close down the drug distribution channels at Idumota, Lagos Island and Ilupeju(for a start). We'll leave them to the mercy of the Igbo(fake) boys..

It won't be fair, as more lives will be lost than u can think, but then maybe Nigerians will begin to value pharmacists.

on the other hand, imagine if medical doctors withdraw services from government hospitals, close down all private hospitals and stop all forms of consultations, treatment, surgeries, etc involving a medical doctor; what state would the country be in? What I'm saying is if government-employed pharmacists have a problem, they tackle the government on their own and leave the community and industrial Pharmacists out of it because other fields also have private sectors who don't join the public sector in a bid to make themselves "felt/ valued".

godsI: I have a simple advice to our magnificient GEJ, they are as follows: All serving doctors shall henceforth cease to own any private hospitals. Those who already have will cease to work for govt. Every health implement purchased by the govt must bear a medical company indelible mark. Any govt owned implements found in any private hospital(with the help of the mark) will incure life imprisonment. The entire executive members of NMA should be sacked, starting from their president, and their emolument shall not be paid ever(as deserters). Our dear president, in his wisdom, knows how to work under the surface and patiently too to bring it all to completion. Long live GEJ, long live this great strategist, long live Nigeria!

if doctors working for the government are prevented from running private hospitals, then pharmacists, medical lab scientists...,etc who have private pharmacies and labs, in addition to their government employment, should also close down the said places. People clamoring against doctors owning private hospitals forget that if implemented, they too would be required to close down their private labs and pharmacies. Everything done will have to be implemented across board.

Morotov1: The doctors that work those hours you quoted are mostly house officers and junior registrars.
The specialist doctors or consultants have days they work and not those ridiculous hours you mentioned, many clients/ patients will attest to these. You can't compare your hours as a trainee with that of a full staff that does an entirely different thing.
The number of nurses for a hospital is incredulously high to commensurate with the amount of work they do, and even has to be divided into shift duties to ensure the wards are covered and to prevent burn out.
If you feel you are overworked, kindly meet your HOD to assign you shift duty and stop whining on how others organized their work.


And...............If you want money join Ngige and Elumelu and Okowa in politics....they are your kith in medicine.

Doctors work those long hours because govt hospitals employ very few of them. For instance, if doctors are to even attempt running two shifts, the hospital needs employ double their present doctor-workforce for this to even be possible. Do you think the government will consider such proposition? One of the demands of NMA was for government to increase funding for residency. This would enable hospitals have more residency slots (ultimately resulting in more resident doctors per hospital with subsequent reduction in workload); and putting in place necessary facilities (hospital facilities) for the training of said resident doctors. This would mean some form of upgrading of hospital facilities eventually leading to better health-care delivery.

AdeniyiA: "center" refers to d middle of something. while "centre" refers to "a place of OR a place for. eg "centre for continue education "

"Center" is American English while "Centre" is British. Nowadays any can be used in writing but you must stick to one form and not mix both in the same composition.

drered: I'd rather blame PCN than blame you.. If things were the way it should be. Any strike effected by pharmacists would be comprehensive.. Lock down in hospital pharmacies likewise community and industry. Then we'd see how much impact would be felt.. Lol. Common hatred? This is just a comeback from repression that has gone on for so many years. The tides have changed..

The community Pharmacists and industrial Pharmacists (private establishments) have no problem with the govt and thus no reason to go on strike. If you think shutting down both public and private pharmacy operations would make your strike more comprehensive; how "comprehensive" do you think NMA strike would be if the Doctors shut down private hospitals in addition to withdrawing services from govt hospitals? It would be a national disaster. So leave the private sector out of government issues.

I'm not surprised at the news since its coming from medicalworldnigeria.com, a JOHESU-run website. If it was the so-called Health Administrator running the hospitals, as JOHESU is clamoring for, the power would have been shut off before now. That is the hard decisions a leader of any organisation needs to make. For the quoted monetary allocation, I would like to say that nobody should be carried away by the huge figures. I know a teaching hospital that spends close to 50 million naira alone on diesel monthly. The hospital runs two sites (temporary and permanent) plus additional satellite outposts. Also the budgetry allocation to hospitals is decreasing yearly. Federal hospitals this year had to slash some amount off the salaries of their workers because the govt. gave less money to them. JOHESU should take this as a challenge and make the hospital profitable in the absence of Doctors. I don't think any CMD would shut off the generating set if the hospital is making profit. This news was a propaganda to put Doctors in a bad light but it ended up showing how helpless JOHESU is in absence of Doctors. I thought they claimed to make up 80% of the hospital staff and they couldn't make profit while the 20% they regard as irrelevant is absent. I'm sorry for the patients who would have to suffer for this but that is the hard truth about capitalism, the paradigm Nigeria is gradually moving towards.

Samgreguc:
and if they do what's bad?
If u want to know if it has been done anywhere use the google.
.
Simple put, our NMA isn't doing well. Imagine what could have happened if the Pharmacist went on strike.

Though I don't want to sound callous but the raw truth is " Pharmacists (or any other Allied Medical Profession) going on strike alone would have little or no impact", the main reason for their coming together to form JOHESU in the hope that their impact would be felt then. Your reason for staying together is the "collective hatred" for Doctors. There is no way a common hatred can successfully keep two or more persons together. You can't decide to marry a girl only because you both hate say "saloon cars". Sadly, That is what JOHESU is.

Samgreguc: Nigerian Physicians want that office.
Will they ever allow a Nurse there?

The position is the Surgeon-General in the USA Army. In the Army anywhere in the world, the highest ranking officer gets to be the Head whether Nurse or Doctor. The Nurse happens to be the highest ranking officer so she got the position. There is a Public Health Surgeon-General in the USA who is always a Medical Doctor. Nigerian Doctors are asking for the Public health Surgeon-General not military Surgeon-General.

pendusky: I swear by Apollo, the healer, Asclepius, Hygieia, and Panacea, and I
take to witness all the gods, all the goddesses, to keep according to
my ability and my judgment, the following Oath and agreement:
To consider dear to me, as my parents, him who taught me this art ;
to live in common with him and, if necessary, to share my goods
with him; To look upon his children as my own brothers, to teach
them this art; and that by my teaching, I will impart a knowledge of
this art to my own sons, and to my teacher's sons, and to disciples
bound by an indenture and oath according to the medical laws, and
no others.
I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to
my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone.
I will give no deadly medicine to any one if asked, nor suggest any
such counsel; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to
cause an abortion .
But I will preserve the purity of my life and my arts.
I will not cut for stone, even for patients in whom the disease is
manifest; I will leave this operation to be performed by practitioners,
specialists in this art .
In every house where I come I will enter only for the good of my
patients, keeping myself far from all intentional ill-doing and all
seduction and especially from the pleasures of love with women or
men, be they free or slaves.
All that may come to my knowledge in the exercise of my profession
or in daily commerce with men, which ought not to be spread
abroad, I will keep secret and will never reveal.
If I keep this oath faithfully, may I enjoy my life and practice my art,
respected by all humanity and in all times; but if I swerve from it or
violate it, may the reverse be my life.

HIPPOCRATIC OAT TAKEN BY PHYSICIANS!

Medical Doctors no longer take the Hippocratic Oath during their induction since 1948. The oath they take now is called "The Declaration of Geneva (Physicians' Oath)" which is heavily modified/ revised from the original Hippocratic Oath to accommodate modern day medicine. For one, modern Doctors cannot be swearing to Greek gods (as was found in the Hippocratic Oath). Link below.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Geneva

prettyprettywow: NMA starts at level 12 after NYSC, tell me any civil servant that starts at that? so what other relativity are we talking about? Until you start paying higher fees than others in school, then DO NOT TALK!!

If you just had enough patience to try and find out the fees paid in Nigerian Universities, you will see that medical students pay at least double what other students pay. This is in a public university that is supposedly subsidised by the govt. The fee difference in private universities is even more. I challenge you to tell me the Nigerian University where medical students pay the same fee as other courses.

slyzy: Forget that thing! How many doctors have been sued in Nig in proportion to the number of pple they give permanent disabilty with injection we see limping about? What of those they kill with misdiagnosis? Have u not heard of cases that they forget some tool in a patient stomach after operation? An the chain continues... An average Nigerian will let go even if the doctor tries to deny unprofessionalism saying is the will of God. So, how many doctors are sued in Nig as u are trying to claim?

Just to correct this impression. I'm not trying to blame any field, but if ever an instrument is left inside a patient after surgery, it's the fault of the circulating Nurse. The Doctor concentrates on the surgery proper. Its the work of the circulating Nurse to ensure that the number of instruments at the beginning of the surgery is the same number at the end. When the surgery is done and the patient is to be closed up, the Nurse has to give them the go-ahead that all instruments are complete before they close up the patient. So if an instrument is left inside a patient, it's the circulating Nurse that made the mistake. In such situations, have you heard the Doctor say it's the Nurse's fault? He would accept the blame for the team because he is the "face" of the team

prettyprettywow: It's only a fool that converts Nigeria currency to Dollars. Have you forgotten that we have different economy? You went to the university almost free, can you also compare your school fees to theirs?

You are not asking for something special, but allow others to grow too in their chosen field. By the way, you guys started this whole thing by comparing your salaries to other health workers. If you face your work and profession and leave others alone, then we won't be having this conversation.

Nobody is asking to be paid the same figures as the US Doctors. If I'm correct, NMA is more concerned about "relativity" than the actual salary figures. Once the salary is decent enough for the Nigerian setting, they are okay but they are insisting that the relativity in salaries must be maintained in the health sector. the NMA requests for being started @ a higher level, etc is aimed at restoring the relativity and not actually asking for salary increase. Believe me, if JOHESU accepts for their salaries to be reduced to restore relativity, NMA would be satisfied with their present salaries if such reduction restores relativity. But that cannot happen, so their only lee way is to ask for salary increase to restore back the relativity

prettyprettywow: but agree that those are the salaries of consultants that you are comparing to an entry level nurse. That resident doctors earn as little as 45k in US unlike here in Nigeria that they want to earn more than their employers. That it takes them years to pay the student loan + interest. That they also pay heavy malpractice insurance unlike nurses. So all those are considered when issues about salaries are handled in US. here, Drs go to school wnd pay same fee with others, yet they want to earn like US Drs .

Entry level health professionals in USA are not fresh university graduates. Entry level nurses in USA are masters degree holders. Entry level pharmacists are Pharm D holders. Also in the USA, most pharmacists do a postgraduate "residency" before they are awarded Pharm D and can now become "entry level" (very few universities do the undergraduate PharmD and those schools are even querried about the adequacy of an undergraduate Pharm D compared to the majority postgraduate Pharm D). would our Pharmacists here want to do a postgrad residency and be subjected to the same temporary appointment stuff resident doctors are experiencing? I think not. They rather tried to institute the undergraduate Pharm D (which is being criticised in the originating country, USA). So you see entry level in USA health system are not fresh graduates. But our NURSES, pharms, etc in Nigeria always fail to mention that allowing the uninformed masses assume that the salaries posted about USA are those of "fresh graduates". In simple terms, in the USA health system all entry level workers are people with postgraduate fellowships in their respective colleges