aribisala0: Arochukwoo is ruled by the Nnubi dynasty to this day.They are not Eboe
.....Please, Igbo people laugh at him. My mom is Arochukwu, in fact I went there last year for Christmas. Proud Igbos to the core, that they even call themselves Oke Igbo
Madame Ghana understand very well b4 getting nonsense thought inside ya head Dem love em in Ghana India South Africa no be lie and we de see d love no be lie
My dear, all the things you see on media isn't actually what's happening in that country. I can't talk of South Africa becuase never been there, but let me talk for the one I know. Why not travel there and see how things are for yourself.
In fact 70 percent of Ghanaian'swho know little about Nigeria, when you call Nigeria they think of the Igbo people and rarely the others. Media give the news to make cash, it isn't what's actually happening there day to day.
Ghannies also have their bad too, we do crime, but your media doesn't bring it to your news, why? It isn't their national problem. But they snoop on the Nigerians, especially the Igbos here becuase it's a national problem. Do you get the logic now?
Somebody is preaching about how Ghanaians loves Ibos and you want me to be discussing such nonsense lies..... Either za kitchen or za oza room is where such is discussed not on a forum like this
Are you upset because Igbos are loved by the ordinary people in Ghana and they have major houses around there and businesses and not yours. I don't get it?
And I rebuke it with the blood of Jesus to the oza room with you.. . Igbo men are my peng, no other tribe in Nigeria suits that state
Landmack: A lady with the Twitter handle as papayaex got so many tongues wagging and filled with rage on the social platform for releasing a controversial shoot of the crucifix and the image of Mary on a waist belt for clout. The question is...can a Christian try this with the other religion without a wildfire of violence spreading round the country?
People shouldn’t wake up and think of crossing the red line with nonsense clout.
Nothing is wrong with the dress. The people who are complaining something is wrong with them.
MrBrownJay1: you people sohuld get a room and be done with the nonsense... BTW i suggest you remove his phone number from that chat, before h0rny goats of NL start contacting him asking for the "seductress"!
I've done that ooo... Thank you dear. I didn't even suspect it. ...Jesus, I wanted to find advice and support quickly, I was in a haste and so angry with him.
We were talking fine, just because I'm flirty and fun to talk. He made a statement which triggered me off, and now he's asking me the most silliest question, asking me this question below. Men are so rude. . Is it a crime to have a beautiful voice.
My dear you are a Ghanian your they don't even know you exist
That's your cup of tea. They know we exist and they are also in my country. And I'm doing what my mom would be proud to see me do. Cherish the Igbo culture, in which indeed is the best.
From my toddling years, when I do go to her village, the love and hardwork of the Igbos cannot be compared by any other tribe in Nigeria. Ghanaian's love them more.
Akalia: Are you saying that one's faith is futile? Don't you believe in God?
I do sweetheart, but the God we Nigerians believe isn't the God at all. Here's an example, we all believe God is unconditional love, right?
If he is, why would a God of unconditional love kill the children he so loved or make his children puppets to kill his children from the so-called evil of the world. Not forgetting to condemn all that comes against their supposed godly doctrines.
The New testament asserts God as unconditional love, but we have made a a God who is confused, and makes us fight his wars for him.
Imagine a person coming down and telling you she sees people in hellfire, and she has marked who and who to be in hellfire? Who gave you such authority to be the arbiter for what is right and wrong? Jesus wasn't even given that power to judge or condemn anyone but you know all and who would go to hell.
Let them come. We are living in the hellfire we've made and we believe we would see God with our misconceptions of the bible. How funny.
About 85 or 100 percent of them are not fulfilled with what they are doing, but they feel God approves them with their doings. How pitiful. You can see from the pictures how sad and devastating they all look.
Little do they know that church na the real hellfire. Gosh, the suffering and lies. How do people want to enjoy this world when they feed their mind with rapture of all sorts. They are suffering a big deal, and believe they have God's approval.
People tend to make their own hellfire in this world, but they don't know it.
TeddyJammy: If you read my previous topic, you will see where i made a post how my enugu girlfriend visited me all the way from jos to anambra..
she landed on tuesday niqht, mehn this was the girl i was dying for, i have even plan of marrying her in the future buh damn, her face was full of black spot and pimples, Very irritatin.. Dnt blame me sha. She was pretty in her pixs.. I knack her the first niqht she stayed. On the second day/niqht, We kiss eachother, on the third day. . Boom, my sister saw this girl and told me that she doesn't like her that she is too old for me. Am 25, she's 27. Damn!, love got us that way . . Afta i told her what my sister said. She was angry and said she wouldn't have wasted her transport jux to visit me, and now see what am tellin her. . Omo afta i told her. . She said she will be leaving early morning.. As of that niqht she said i will be qivin her transport money for her to travel back to her brother's place. To cut the story, i no qive her shishi.. and that was how she left..
aribisala0: Akamkpa kings rule Arochukwu till today that is the reality
Tahhhhhhh!!!! ... Keep your lies to yourself, you're so funny. You'll be suitable for my little cousin, she loves clowns? Are you up for hire, dear? You can entertain children in parties?
Igboid: That's the funny thing. Civilization= Being ruled by one fat retarded old man, who marries lots of wives, doesn't farm, but feed off the farm works of others in form of tribute.
These people are mad. I would be angry with my ancestors if they accepted such a stupid arrangement.
But I guess everyone is entitled to their own cup of tea. It gets funny when decendants of people whose ancestors were worshipping and feeding retarded and senile old men they called kings, try to pass off this stupidity as Hallmark of civilization. It's shocking. Even in 21st century some of them are still worshipping these fat senile old men whose past time hobbies includes to accumulation of wives.
It's becuase of the British craze. They believe England was so powerful and civilized, so they can sit toe to toe with them. Little do they know, that manyore civilized European countries look down on England as savages. ...for example, France.
In addition, Briton conquered them and they were held as god's in that period, so may Brtiish style of rule and act was considered as being civilized. We still have it in our system today, bleaching cream them gang
Truth inst bitter in any way. What you bring are lies. My mom is Arochukwu, and she's never told me she's from Akamkpa, although they keep close relations with them. Stop lying and trying to massage your ego by feasting on Igbos and their prowess since history and present day Nigeria.
aribisala0: Arochukwu was not an Ibo group it was an enclave of the Akamkpa overlords ruling over enslaved Ibos
They used the platform of Arochukwu to hunt and sell Ibos as slaves Till this day the rulers of Arochukwu are the Akamkpa/ibom dynasty
Where do you get these lies from. Arochukwu were never Akamkpa, Aro are proud Igbos. Come and say this in the town or village and let them stone you to death for libel or even put a curse on your generation.
Dagger111: So we should spare the python that keeps feeding on our livestock? So that one day, same python will come and swallow us in our various tangos when the livestock are finished? Well done sir.
If you weren't trespassing on their territory, or cutting of their habitats, why would they feed on your livestock. Animals know their limits, its humans that are dangerous, we tend to encroach everywhere, not considering we aren't the only ones living on planet earth. Mtchewwwww.
ChinenyeN: Nmanma, ThickSharon123. This was such a nice discussion. I got to talk about some things I find interesting, even though we may not have entirely been on the same page. I appreciate the mental sciences. Pyschology, psychiatry, psycho-analysis, etc. It's not necessarily my forte, but I do enjoy reading those topics from time to time. Maybe some time in the future you and I could try to have an indepth discussion on what your forte. In particular, I am interested in the mental and social aspects that can prepare people for true nationhood and sovereignty. Especially us as Igbo people. Nigeria is just not it, but I don't think we are mentally prepared to do the needful to either change Nigeria or change some aspects of our own circumstance to give us breathing room, little by little. So I might like to pick your brain on what your thoughts are in that respect maybe some time in the future on another thread.
Okay dear, that would be nice. For Nigeria's situation we are simply suffering from the dislodge of what we call "brainwash" and there are different mechanisms that facilitates this, from tribal sentiments, to religion and the likes.
If we can let go of these and see ourselves as one indivisible people we would have solved 99.9 percent of our problems.
We tend to blame Briton for all our wiles, but Briton has no say in it, if perchance we can be free from how we take Religion literally from the North to the South, Nigeria would be saved and surely have a good hope. We really need to start thinking like humans, and that's showing the attribute of compassion. I've been making research on this, but that's just a tip of the iceberg.
ChinenyeN: ThickSharon123, I see. So we were never dicussing the same thing to begin with. Here I was getting interested and excited, because I might have found someone else to have these sort of discussions with. Anyhow, thank you for providing that clarification. In that case, we do not need to continue the conversation, but I would like to take this opportunity now to ask a question of my own.
I am particularly interested in this quote below. You again re-affirm the claim that Crow provided the etymology of amanyanabo as "A Land of Two Kings", and you restate Bonny and Opobo's historical, non-slave, Igbo-speaking origins.
For the record, I do not dispute the historical, non-slave, Igbo-speaking origins of Umu Afo Ubani. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I am an Ngwa man and our traditions assert that Ngwa people are part of the founding legacy of Bonny. Bonny oral traditions also show that Ijaw people came in contact with Ngwa people in what is now Ndoki before migrating in their company to Bonny. So no matter which tradition you choose to take seriously and no matter how anyone tries to change things, there is no denying the ancestral, non-slave Igbo-speaking founding legacy of Bonny. So this is not my concern. There should be no reason for us to revisit statements like this between ourselves going forward because we are both in agreement here.
Now the question I would like to ask is with regards to the first part of the above quote where Crow is claimed to have provided the etymology of amanyanbo as "A Land of Two Kings". I enjoy the study of language, language reconstruction, language development and preservation. So of course, something like this would certainly interest me, because it gives an insight into the past. I have a full-text digital copy of Crow's memoir (Memoirs of the Late Captain Hugh Crow of Liverpool). I've read it several times in the past and in the interest of our current discussion, I've re-read it again over the past few days. Regrettably, I did not note anywhere in the memoir where Crow provides an etymology for the expression "amanyanabo". Yes, he has a few chapters where he discusses Bonny, and one chapter in particular where he discusses the government, but no mention of amanyanabo or a translation/etymology of the expression.
So my question now is sort of a question and sort of a request.
In effect, are we both reading the same memoir? If not, please pass along or share the copy that you have. I can just as easily share mine from my DropBox, if it helps. I have a DropBox for Ngwa, Igbo and general Lower Niger language, culture and history documents that I have been actively maintaining and publicly sharing with others for nearly a decade now. Anyhow, I would like to get the chance to store your copy in my DropBox as well as read it, so I can see Crow's discussion of the amanyanabo historical context, the etymology he provides, as well as his notes on what he observed (or what he may have been told) that led him to provide such an etymology, as I am interested in topics and information such as this.
Ekealterego, please can you provide us with the Amayanabo description by Crow or one of the authors, ChinenyeN wants a piece of it, thank you.
Igboid Slayforever
JPlease help with this. ChinenyeN, needs added proof of the Amayanabo origin)
The name mentioned was the one who brought it forward in one of these threads, which quickly shut the Ijaw urchins lips finally, banning them to express any further.
I'm more of a mental scientists, I love the study of the mind other than historical pieces. I do scroll through historical pieces but it isn't my forte.
That's by the way, as far you ask for it. He'll bring it forward soon.
ChinenyeN: ThickSharon123, so it seems you’re both dismissive of the role of etymology, but then choosing to pick it up when it suits you. Let me show two quotes from you here.
In this quote here, you say that etymology not a tool for decomposing the historical context of the amanyanabo institution.
In this quote here, you then turn around to say that Captain Hugh Crow provided an etymology for “amanyanabo”, by saying that he, in the book he authored, gave a translation of “Land of Two Kings”. In other words, you turn around to accept the role of etymology, specifically the etymology that is claimed to have been provided by Crow, as a necessary tool for discussing the historical context of amanyanaboship.
From my perspective, engaging in this conversation, you are in effect dodging any attempt to critically examine the claimed “ama onye naabo” etymology and are simply accepting it as an indisputable factoid. Here I thought this conversation was about examining its linguistic justifications (which is the purpose of a discussion of etymology), but it seems you are sidestepping that in order to discuss something else entirely.
So please clarify, if this discussion is no longer about etymology (which is what we started with), then what is it about? If we are no longer interrogating the justifications of one etymological interpretation against another, then what are we discussing here?
It is my belief that we will unknowingly end up not being on the same page, if we don’t clarify what our actual conversation is supposed to be about. Because I will be under the impression that we are discussing one thing (etymology), while you are under the impression that we are discussing something else (apparently, not etymology, judging by your latest post).
No, dear one. I didn't turn around to proclaim anything. I was just being friendly or trying to go along with your argument. That doesn't mean I was in support of the etymology issue. That is the reason I told you to read Crow and all others work of the 1800s and early 1900s, so you could get a general grasp of your etymology brouhaha. Being that you're so keen on observing such, you understand now?
And I have no business with etymology, that isn't my field by the way, but I could fairly grasp all you said. The basic stance is, if peradventure this is taking to court, the judge won't be looking at all those etymology issues, becuase they in their own way would have all things to refute the generalisation you've been trying to pass across. Rather the judge would bring three or two witness from this region, tell them to give their account, they give theirs.
Then the judge proceeds with this evidence by scholars in the 1800s, reading the accounts of the King's at that period. What do you think the judge would do if he saw that, King People of blessed memory had bluntly told Crow that Amayanabo is "a land of two kings"? You ask yourself that question and make the decision here. And there are more overarching evidences that can't be disputed when it comes to the Bonny and Opobo proud Igbos territory.
ChinenyeN: So I'll just go ahead and respond to specific things concerning language and some history, and leave the other things that I am not sure of, because I don't know what you're getting at with those. I'll just wait for a better understanding before I comment. As for the specific things I will respond to now...
I'm not certain where you're getting this from. The amanyanabo institution exists in communities that are both Ijaw and Igbo-speaking (such Bonny and Opobo) as well as communities that speak only or primarily a dialect of Ijaw (such as Kalabari, Bile, etc). But to answer your question about why you may not see amanyanabo in all Ijaw communities, it is actually well established that amanyanabo is a recent institution. It is called "modern Ijaw kingship" for a reason. As a recent institution, it was absent in many Ijaw-speaking communities even up to the 19th century. It is similar to how ezeship was not common in many Igbo-speaking communities until the colonial era, hence why many communities did not get their first eze until well-after the warrant chief era. So yes, not all Ijaw communities had an amanyanabo, just like how not all Igbo communities had an eze.
No one said that a breath is a word construct. Perhaps you are not actually understanding how phonetics is an important part of linguistics. A full word is not all there is in studying language. Phonetics plays a central role in methodologies and techniques such as glottochronology. Phonetics plays a central role in the reconstruction of proto-languages. So I hope you are not misunderstanding things. It's not just about words, it is also about understanding the monopolization of sound (i.e. phonetic conventions) within a given language. You need such an understanding to investigate/interrogate etymologies.
I'm not quite sure where to begin with this, because it is almost as though you're not seeing how linguistics is a wholistic discipline. You don't just look at two words that either look or sound the same in your head and then throw out a conclusion. In both this post and in a previous post I made, I stated that you need to understand the (tonal, phonetic, grammar) conventions within a language group and understand the language conventions within a corresponding language group in order to identify whether something is a loan word, a true cognate, or independent innovation. And you will need to also justify a proposed etymology that takes these various factors into consideration.
In this particular example you present with the term "water", we can actually get a sense of a potentially shared etymology from a far older, proto language within the Niger-Congo family. Let's examine the linguistic features of the various terms for "water" between the Igbo and Ijo lects.
In Igbo, water is rendered variously as mmiri, mmili, mili, miri, mini and muri. The tone structure and phonetics for these is somewhat diverse. For example, the Ukwuani and Onicha will both say "mmili", but Onicha will render it with a HHM tone structure, while Ukwuani has been recorded as rendering it with a HHL tone structure. There is however a general consistency of a HM tone structure across lects. Owerre will use the "mmiri" variant with two /m/ sounds, but nasalize the /r/. Ngwa, Echie, Asa, Ndoki, etc. will use the "miri" variant with only one /m/ and nasalize the /r/ or the "mini" variant. Ika has been recorded as using the "miri" variant with only one /m/ and not nasalizing the /r/. So overall, we see there is a great deal of variety in phonetics and tone.
Now in Ijaw, water is rendered with a similar sort of variety in phonetics and tone. You will see mingi, minji, mindi, mendi, beni, bini and mini. The phonetics actually make the list more varied than what you see here. For instance with beni, the /b/ is rendered as an implosive in central and some western Ijaw lects, and the central and western Ijaw use the beni form more consistently. The form transitions a bit from beni to mendi within the Nembe axis, before transitioning completely to mingi/minji in Kalabari and Ibani. Okrika has a mixture of the /me/ form from Nembe axis with the /ngi/ from Ibani axis. That's phonetics. As far as tone structure, there is some decent variation. For example, Kalabari and Ibani use all low tones minji/mingi LLL, most of central and western use all low tones for beni LL, and in a few examples will you see a LH tone structure (such as Okrika), and only a few will have all high tones when rendering beni HH. However, most of the Ijaw lects consistently favor a LL tone structure (mingi - eastern Ijaw, beni - central Ijaw).
Here is what we can deduce from this. We can probably suspect that the word for water might have a shared cognate from a long-forgotten proto-language period. There is enough consistency in proto-Igbo (mmidi) and proto-Ijaw (mbedi) reconstructions to deduce this potentially shared etymology. However, using clear and consistent phonetic and tonal trend in Ijaw that show the transition of beni -> mendi -> mingi. As well as a clear and consistent phonetic and tonal trend in Igbo that show the variations of mmili -> mmiri -> miri. It is easier to conclude that the Ijaw and Igbo terms ultimately developed or innovated separately.
One caveat I might add is that we can suspect a potentially later Igbo influence on the more eastern Ijaw variants who likely had greater historical contact with southern Igbo-speaking communities. We can deduce this as a later influence, because the beni variants far outnumber the mingi/minji/mendi/mengi variants. It seems reasonable to suspect that a supposed later Igbo influence triggered a phonetic innovation in the eastern Ijaw region that harmonized it in some way with southern Igbo variants. Examine the table below.
Central Ijaw Southern Igbo Eastern Ijaw Harmonizing be -> mi -> me/mi ni -> ri (nasal r) -> ngi/nji/ndi
The southern Igbo lects either say "mini" or "miri", and those that say "miri" pronounce it with a heavy nasal /r/, which is etymologically descended from an implosive /d/ sound according to linguists. If we take this proto-reconstruction (implosive /d/) into consideration, it suggests that this speculative harmonization might have actually occurred in pre-history and not modern day. There is a case to be made that Ijaw speakers (primarily using the "beni" variant) might have come into contact with some proto-Igbo speakers using the "midi" variant (implosive /d/), and that initial and ongoing contact might have facilitated the harmonizing effect in eastern Ijaw speech, while they maintained the characteristic low tones from the "beni" variant. Those proto-Igbo speakers who they came in contact with would survive on as the southern Igbo lects from "midi" (implosive /d/) to "mini" and "miri" (the nasal r).
So you see, the analysis of etymology is not something where you just look at two or more words and say "oh, those sound or look alike, they're probably related". To analyze actual etymology, you will need to look at and interrogate language trends and conventions, reconstruct and propose proto-language variants, analyze potential historical contacts, etc. In the case of the terms for "water", we can see that there might be the case of a shared etymology, but it cannot be denied that the terms developed independently and separately between the two language communities. Yet, we can also speculate on likelihood of some harmonizing in pre-history in the axis where the two language communities have known historical contact.
In fact, where is AjaanaOka? This could be another potential case study for interrogating the hypothesis of a southern entry for proto-Igboid.
First of all, on the issue of Amayanabo, apart from these ancient Igbo peopled towns like, Kalabari, Nembe, Bonny and Opobo, where is Amayanabo made or used? If you wish to know the history of Kalabari too, there are evidence for that too.
Amayanabo isn't even mentioned in Delta Ijaw areas, which is proclaimed as the head start of all Ijaw clans.
And for the etymology of languages, that isn't a necessary tool that breaks down the Amayanabo issue. You'd used the IKa, and all other Igbo variants as a basis for your argument, that still hinges on what I'm trying to say.
Amayanabo in Crows or is it another author book, was said to be the "Land of two kings" it wasn't the Igbo defenders that made that. The writer never mentioned an Ijaw origin. Crow and all other authors documented what the King's said to him and used it in his book for antiquity. It shows that you've been pretending that you read Crows book from paper to paper (I've read some of your arguments), while in certianity you haven't even touched it or even skimmed through it I believe. Do read the book, perhaps it would clear the cover from your eyes, and you might begin to make your experiential language hypothesis based on what Crow said and finally have a conclusion for yourself.
Do you even know languages changes overtime. The Americans speak English, but it's wholly different from the Britons, who are the originators of such language. Briton do even have a language called medieval English, which isn't used today. So, I believe Opobo and Bonny aren't left out in that part, but this isn't certain. And that applies for the Amayanabo issue too.
So language can never be a parameter to show as a case study for a present research or argument. That's just my two cents. If you notice most scholars do not apply the language gimmicks to their case study in the former times, becuase it wasn't an avenue to make their hypothesis. They simply went to the villages and the king's, ask them questions (which is still used till today, and called questionnaire) and immediately they got answers they wrote it down. You can't also tell me that such scholars in such time didn't understand the language they spoke becuase Crow as an example stayed in that country for years or even a decade before departing for England. So he would have understood the culture and the language pretty well. And he was said to trade with the kings of Bonny and Opobo often, and there can be no trade without some form of communication. So the Bonny and Opobo kings would have spoken to Crow in their language and Crow at the same time knowing the language pretty well would have used that to communicate with them in making his research and giving it to the Queen's archives.
And it would be better to make your explaination as simple for the layman, I may understand it, but perhaps those reading this won't. So, it would be better you helped the layman understand it, by making it as simple as it can be. That's what makes an ardent reader of books and professor.
Coldshisha: I laugh at scientists trying to save animals going through extinction....
Nature and evolution, change in weather and temperature, external invasion and universe would always make every specie including human evolve or face extinction
Humans can never evolve. Evolution only happens in the affairs of men. Humanity is God incarnated and there is no evolution when it comes to us.
To add, we are not this meat suits we wear. We are far more than that, we are soul, mind, spirit of whatever you want to call it. That's who we are and not this meat suits.
God set the stage here on earth for all of us, and he's playing every part of man. He's playing the theif, the pope, the electrician, the rich, you name it. And he won't be done till he has completed what he said he'll do. Read the Bible, that's where all the secret of the universe is, not what a scientists makes by silly hypothesis and theory.
As a great man once said, I don't remember his name, " what can be counted as truth today, may end up becoming the stupidest thing ever thought."
ChinenyeN: Okay, done. I really enjoyed writing this. I really wish there was a platform with more Igbo people like me that want to engage in this sort of conversation. Anyhow, I tried to keep it as concise as possible, but I really wanted to make sure I explained everything.
This is actually a very common misunderstanding that many of our people have, and this is why you are saying that you don't know where I'm going with the role of tone in etymology. Our people seem to think it means we can dismiss tone in etymology, because it can vary from community to community. While there is some truth in the variation of tone from community to community, it is only a fraction of the whole picture. Our languages are tonal, meaning we rely on tones to create meaning. Because of this, we do not have the luxury to have random tones, nor do we have the luxury to have random tone conventions. In other words, consistency is paramount, both within and between speech communities. Anyone who studies tonal languages knows that even though languages can influence each other, we still need to interrogate how that influence occurred to know if it was a genuine cross-pollination, an already existing language feature in one or both languages or an independent innovation altogether. What this means for us is that it is a necessity to examine existing tonal conventions when discussing etymology of languages like ours. Phonetics (pronunciation of sound; not tone) is also equally as important as tone in identifying etymology. Grammar is also equally important as phonetics and tone.
I will give you a few good, hopefully obvious examples. They will all build on top of each other to show the importance of these factors.
Example 1: This should be easy to understand. If tasked with determining the etymology (or relatedness, to make it simple) of the following terms, you would depend primarily on the tones to help complete your task: oke, nke, uke, oke (yes, this second "oke" is intentional). Unless you are a mindreader (to know what I am referring to by the aforementioned terms), there is no way you would be able to group these words by their relatedness. You will undoubtedly require the help of existing tone conventions. So let's add those tone conventions.
H - high, L - Low, M - Mid
oke [HH], nke [LL], uke [LH], oke [LL].
Because we know the core tonal conventions in Igbo revolve around the root of a word, we can easily drill down and determine how to group the words above.
Oke [HH] will be grouped with uke [LH], because the /-ke/ root is a high tone. Nke [LL] will be grouped with oke [LL], because the /-ke/ root is a low tone.
Now, let's move this to the next example.
Example 2: Let's say we change this up for you to still group the words. You should be able to easily do it now, if I don't provide you the tone, because you will do it by the meaning. If you were given the same tasks, but also provided the meaning, in this way:
oke (a reflective object) nke (as in nke gi na nke m) uke (brightness, sparkling nature of something) oke (a share or portion)
You can easily group them into their relatedness. We can easily see that the first oke and uke are related. The nke and the second oke are related. But here is what we are not conscious of, as Igbo speakers. Our minds (because we know the meaning of the word) are also subconsciously comparing and contrasting the tones (because we cannot escape the reliance on this information). This is because as Igbo speakers, we are intuitively aware of the fact that most tone conventions revolve around the root word. We are already subconsciously looking at the high /-ke/ vs the low /-ke/. We don't even realize it.
Now, let's build on this with the third/final example. This will build on what we know about tone by adding phonetics and grammar to the mix.
Example 3: I'm going to give a few short sentences in various dialects.
Mbieri - hwu che m Okocha - kwucha kye m Onicha - fu nke m (someone correct me if I'm wrong on the Onicha one, but I think this is what I've heard) Izii - pfu ke m
I'm ignoring a number of phonetics such as nasals, aspirants, etc. to avoid cluttering my point. The above expressions translate roughly as "use your hands to peel mine (like an orange or something)". This is actually a perfect example of how tone changes. The term I want you to focus on is "nke" (che, kye, ke). When they stand alone, they are all low tones, but when used in sentences within their respective dialects, the tones can and do change. It is at this point that we find it difficult to rely entirely on tones. Mind you, I only said entirely. We still need to rely on tones, because we want to decipher the statement. In other words, we need to know what the tone conventions are in the various dialects to help us determine what the words are within a given dialect, which will then help us determine etymology across dialects.
Izii for instance switches its ke from low to high in some sentences. Onicha, I believe, keeps its nke low. Mbieri can either be high or mid/step tone and Okocha, I am not certain of. I think I've mostly seen high tones where marked. Without knowing these conventions within the given dialects, we may find it difficult to decipher what is meant in that dialect. For all we know, the "che" for Mbieri could have been another verb, if we were not aware of Mbieri tone rules. Likewise for the other lects.
Now let me summarize. I've given three cascading examples that build on top of each other. Knowledge of how to decipher meaning and determine etymology transfers from one to the next. If you paid attention to the examples, you will note that tone is consistently present in all attempt to decipher meaning and determine etymology. No matter how hard we try, we cannot avoid the existence of tonal conventions within and between lects.
Now let me bring this back to point of this thread. We need both an understanding of tone conventions Igbo and Ijaw (amanyanabo [HHHH] vs ama onye naabo [HHHMHLL]) as well as an understanding of the phonetic changes (implosive bo vs non-implosive abo) as well as the local grammar rules within a given language (how amanyanabo is actually a noun while ama onye naabo is not) to interrogate an etymology and provide a justification for why one etymological interpretation should be considered over another. If someone cannot justify their etymological interpretation in light of these (and other) factors, then it makes it difficult for someone else to be convinced that such etymological interpretation is correct. As it stands, the etymological interpretation of "ama onye naabo" makes no effort to justify itself against the known tonal, phonetic and grammar conventions of both Igbo and Ijaw. As such, someone like me remains unconvinced.
Okay, as a simple fact why is it that only in Nembe (which is Igbo speaking or bilingual too) and Bonny and Opobo, we do have the titleship called Amayanabo. And not in all Ijaw clans as some Ijaws posit, grabbing the word in its entirety.
These title is only found in so-called Ijaw speaking clans which bluntly speak Igbo. But not in all Ijaw clans, not even in the central Ijaw area in Delta? It begs the question.
If you are a person of logic, you'll know intonation or a breath of words doesn't really count as a collective of word construct. If it did, the professor's from the start who made their findings, Crow and the likes would have objectively used such parameters to conclude that the Bonny and Opobo are related to this Jo men who live in the creeks as they make their record to the letter. But as a fact, the Jo men had no relation to them, they were even scarcely mentioned in the paper.
You weren't the person who started this findings, they'd even labelled how similar the numerical and alphebitcal lines were similar in regions such as Nembe, Bonny and Opobo and the likes with the Eboe or Igbo language. Making such similarities as you're giving now.
For example in Crows book, Mmiri is water in Igbo or Eboe as he made mention. Nembe, Opobo and Bonny call it MMigi I presume. So, with what you've just given there's a link to these city states as in connection to Igbos, right?
In addition, you might think I'm boring you with Crows work as a suggestion or basis, there are more authors which links Crows findings firmly and they predate pre-colonial times.
Alagoa and the likes intentionally left that out becuase perhaps he'd thought the internet would never be created or we would never find out, while they continued wiping out the Igboness out of that group.
Right now as I speak, there is a campaign and I mean a dogged campaign to forcefully make the Bonny and Opobo speak a language called Ibani (even Ijaws don't understand it) and they tag it like some parasite Ibani-Ijaw, just to make them wipe anything called Igbo from them, tell me and be sincere isn't that witchcraft?
And funny enough, Ibani according to historical records is an Igbo sub-group language spoken in Kalabari I presume. That said, the question here is, why don't you advise the Ijaws to let the people speak what they comfortably love to speak, other than guilt tripping them that that's a slave language, and stealing anything that makes them Bonny and Opobo people.
Igbos aren't forcing the Bonny and Opobo to be with them (it's their choice) but what we are against is forcing a people who are comfortable to speak their mother tongue, to speak otherwise. A tongue that has been with them for millennials and still counting, and you dare introduce a foreign language to them, just becuase they are found in the coast? That is uncalled for.
Most of the Bonny and Opobo I've seen are proud to be called Igbos. I rarely see any that would say he is Ijaw. I believe the Ijaws have kept them in siege in their own town, so they feel they have no one to turn too.
And if they are Ijaws as Ijaw so claim, why are they insecure? Why can't they laugh when Igbos say they are Igbos? Isn't that suspicious? Isn't Bonny and Opobo people meant to speak for themselves. Why do Ijaws use fake monikers, like some who would read this post pretty soon. Today he is from Bayelsa, tommorow he is from Delta, and when Bonny and Opobo comes up, he is from Opobo! There are a lot of suspicion and insecurities when it comes to Ijaws and their propaganda for Bonny and Opobo. Why do they feel insecure?
Igbos do not feel insecure, but when you call Bonny and Opobo slaves, we refuse. Bonny and Opobo Igbos wasn't slave made. They were also a great number of indigenous Igbos there too. That's when we feel insecure and bring proofs. And that's what they are doing now.
ChinenyeN: ThickSharon123, I am about to write a long post, but I am only doing so because I’m still giving you the benefit of the doubt.
Now, by the logic you have in your post above, you should actually consider me Igbo. Your basis for claiming or believing that I am supposedly not Igbo is as such:
1) I disagree with the claim that “Amanyanabo” has an Igbo etymology. Yet, I am the one who opened and led the most educative thread on NL regarding Igbo language etymology and proto-Igbo language reconstruction. ‘Til date, I have not yet opened such a thread for any other Lower Niger language, because I believe (as I’ve stated severally on NL) that members of a speech community should take responsibility for preserving and developing their respective languages. Anyone who knows what my interests are on this NL platform can easily assume that I would have created an Ijaw language and etymology thread by now if I were actually Ijaw. Go look at my NL profile. The language and etymology thread I created as well as my contribution in that thread outweigh the claim that I am “exposed as Ijaw” on the basis of a single disagreement about the etymology of “amanyanabo”. The thread and my contribution also shows that I am well-versed in language reconstruction and etymological decomposition, and have the capacity to interrogate others’ claims about a supposed etymology for a given word. On that basis, I remain unconvinced of the claims made by some Igbo people here on this platform regarding the expression “amanyanabo”. The tone structures for “ama nyana bo” (HH LH H) and “ama onye naabo” (HH HH HLL) are so dramatically different that it’s impossible to justify the etymology, because tone is a key part of etymology for Lower Niger languages. The phonetics (the actual pronunciation of sounds) also don’t match. The “bo” in “amanyanabo” is an phonetic implosion that does not exist in surviving Igbo speech forms. Those who claim “ama onye naabo” as the etymology have yet to justify how a speech community goes from a non-implosive “bo” in “naabo” to an implosive “bo”. There’s more reasons, but I don’t need to enumerate them further. You should get the point by now that ultimately, those who claim “ama onye naabo” as the etymology have yet to justify such a claim in my eyes, because they have left so many glaring aspects unaddressed. So to use this disagreement to claim I have exposed myself as Ijaw does not agree with your logic. Your logic HAS TO accept me as Igbo, if the contention here is about language etymology.
2) You stated that the Igbo people here went further to inform me about indigenous Igbo-speaking people in Bonny and Opobo. Yet, I come from Ngwa and this is a staple knowledge. In fact, I urge you to look as far back as you can on NL. I was among the first, if not the very first person to provide detailed AND VERIFIABLE synopsis of oral traditions in the Lower Niger that show that Igbo-speaking communities were present in Bonny before the Portuguese arrived, thereby predating the slave trade. Most of what you see here on NL is a repeat of what I shared over a decade ago when most Igbo people here were completely uninformed about the historical, cultural and linguistic relations in the eastern part of the Lower Niger. So if your logic is that I am denying indigenous Igbo-speaking people in Bonny and Opobo (thereby making me Ijaw), then you are now obliged to see that your conclusion is in error and thereby correct it. You have to accept me as Igbo by your logic.
I know this might have been a lot to read, but I wrote it in good faith, because I don’t have a history with you here on NL, and because you claimed that you are not in the business of denying anyone of their Igboness so we should be able to have an honest conversation.
Based on the etymology idea you wrote about. I'll like to ask you a question, wouldn't inter-relation between tribes affect the overall tone of a given language. For example, Delta or Ika Igbos do not have the same intonation or verility of language like those in the south. So that doesn't hold any claim.
Even with the Ijaws themselves, there's a saying that western Ijaws do not particularly understand Eastern Ijaws, although they have almost the same verbal construct. (So, I do not know where you're going with this idea on etymology and verbal intonation as put)
I'll like to add have you read the ideas about Crow and the likes, which are pre-colonial papera justfiying the Igbo history of Bonny and Opobo in exemption from the fact IJAWS are trying to forcefully place a history in which the Bonny and Opobo's have no idea on. Alagoa and the likes had fraudently maimed this people of their history, placeing the Ijaw history as foremost. But these people still held on to their mother tongue which is Igbo till date.
Ijaws had to further lie that the Igbo mother tongue was too strong for the weak Ijaw language to give that it overpowered the Ijaw tongue (don't tell me you'll be so little to believe such fairytales?)
So on the subject of the Crow and the likes evidence which dates from 1880-1900 what would you say about it? I'll like to hear it from your words? Or would you say your supposed Igbo brothers and sisters fabricated that document?
ChinenyeN: You should perhaps go and look at my post history. I have a fundamental disagreement with both Igbo and Ijaw nationalists. In fact nationalism in Nigeria is cantankerous, and I have a fundamental disagreement with how it manifests in Nigeria. So don’t assume what my thoughts and beliefs are or even who I am on the basis of opinion regarding cantankerous nationalism in Nigeria. You can be an Igbo person and critique the system in Nigeria that facilitates the same cantankerous nationalism that we witness here on NL everyday. You can be Igbo and also critique the same people that willingly parade themselves as cantankerous nationalists. That is who I am and what I am doing.
Anyhow, I only responded because I don’t have a history with you here on NL. I’m willing to give you more of the benefit of the doubt in conversation. But I’m not interested in going back and forth with anyone who thinks they have the right to deny others of their Igboness. If that is what your position is, please clarify now so we can desist from conversations here on in. I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt now to state that you are not such a person.
Dearie, no one has the right to deny your igboness of that sort. You showed you supposed evidences on the issue of Bonny and Opobo, and the likes of Ekealterego and Igboid, and Slayforever did the same. But your objectivity is always on spearheading the Ijaw story way more than the evidence put forth to you.
For instance, while reading your comment on this thread on Amayanabo, you maintained that Amayanabo is an Ijaw word for a King, now except for Nembe, Bayelsa are there any other clan or community in Ijaw which uses the word Amayanabo. the Ijaws word for a king is Pere and was never Amayanabo.
The Igbo's around here gave you reason with much logic telling you Amayanabo is, Ama Onye na abo meaning land of two kings. If you're Igbo or any other tribe you'll find the facts so evident that you don't even have to question it. Not relenting on that, they'd given you facts which predates pre colonial Nigeria by men who proclaimed that the supposed Ijaw chiefs of Bonny and Opobo outrightly claimed Igbo as their origin. But no you refused to accept.
They went further to tell you they were indigenous Igbo people in Bonny and Opobo other than slaves as pushed by you and the Ijaw urchins, but you refused. You said it was Ijaw and the Igbos are slaves or tenants to the land (can you imagine?)
Now, the question is how would you want the indigenous Igbos of Bonny and Opobo to feel with your supposed logical talk, which finds no bearing with facts given to you? And the more you talk and speak, it shows an Ijaw moniker. I'm sorry, there's no Igbo bluntness you're showing in there, but pure fallacious dubiousness to make people believe what you want them to believe.
As a reminder, I'm not in any way denying your igboness if you are (God knows) but you writeups seems beyond exposition which shows exactly who you are. Thank you.
Politics › Re: How Igbos Lived In The Olden Days by ThickSharon123(f): 11:07am On Jan 10, 2022
.....Please, Igbo people laugh at him. My mom is Arochukwu, in fact I went there last year for Christmas. Proud Igbos to the core, that they even call themselves Oke Igbo 
