Maximus69:


If you're not mad Sir, you atheists often say "humans don't need any sky daddy to tell them what is right or wrong" why not apply the same method on all matters?
Can't you use your own head to distinguish the right from the wrong?

Whatever makes people think of anything as right and expecting or pestering others around them to do the same is RELIGION!

Stop this nonsense of referring to books made by humans to validate the definition of concepts my dear, apply wisdom!

If you guys refute the concept of God that's agreed upon by over 90% of humans, what the hell makes you now think it's OK to count on the definition of few humans simply because they're influential?

My question doesn't require this jargons.

I asked a simple question, what's the STANDARD definition of religion?

TATIME:

He's an atheist so for you to have grouped him along with religionists whom he feels are psychopaths makes him sick.

They're all mad my brother, you'll see them quoting Dictionaries and Wikipedia as if those books weren't written by humans like themselves. Some times i wonder why they're saying religious book should not be taken seriously because 'they are written by humans' but at the same time they will start quoting books fabricated by humans to back their useless arguments.
Doesn't that sound preposterous?

Since dictionaries are meaningless to you.

So what's the definition of religion?

Maximus69:

Nonsense you say!

Confused Psychopath

The definition you're quoting comes from humans like you my dear!
So if you're refuting religion that over 5 billions persons agreed upon as a valid concept how do you now count on the definition of dictionaries that's not working?

What's the standard definition of religion?

Maximus69:
Apply wisdom!

Take all religious beliefs as THEORIES, figure out the PRACTICAL APPLICATIONS so as to identify the real adherents of the theory after which you will clearly and easily see the BENEFITS amongst the adherents!
With this approach i discovered that there is no sane human on planet earth that doesn't belong to a religion, it all depends on the definition each gives their religious groups.
Atheists, Agnostics, Freethinkers are all religionists underG but they may argue this fact since they're not following the tenets of their predecessors (professed religionists) and they often turn to social media and dictionaries as to prove their stand. But the fact that they hold a common view and are looking forward to or pestering others into accepting the same view makes them the same as religionists.
Only insanes (mad people) are real Freethinkers!
Nothing guides their dress code, food, drinks, bath, brushing teeth, walks, talks, sleep and gesture. They're absolutely free of what others may think about them!
So to find out if your Religion (mindset) is the Truth (best for everyone) you need to apply the wisdom:

THEORY
PRACTICAL APPLICATION
BENEFIT
Of course each psychopath we see in our neighbourhood do have his/her own Theory but how practical is the application? And is there and benefits?
Thanks!

Atheists, agnostic are not Religions, stop this nonsense.

- religion
/rɪˈlɪdʒ(ə)n/

the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.

LabuleofNigeria:




So if you see a perfect moving car (e.g. Mercedece Benz Gwagon) moving sweetly and smoothly on the road with its perfect mechanism, you'll assume it just there existing & functioning without a creator ??

After you mentioned the company name. Lol.

Anyways, you have to look for a better example, a car definitely has it maker, this is totally different from things concerning natural laws.

Like I said I don't know if I was created and even if I was created I don't know who or what it's and that thing must have a creator too.

Every Religion claim to be right and others are wrong so in this case all religions cannot be right. It will always result to subjectivism. It's like arguing Superman against Batman and vice versa, there will never be a reaching conclusion, the arguments will always go in circles. My religion is right because my book said so, that's Circular reasoning fallacy.

So how do we measure which religion is true, well all what we need to use are evidences and logic.

Has any religion meet these evidences and logic? No.

It's always FAITH. Religions are built under beliefs and faiths and by definition faith is not a proof. I can also claim I've faith in Aliens that created the universe, my faith claim is as valid as Muslim saying Allah created the universe or the Hindus saying Brahma created the universe or the Ifa worshipers saying Olodumare created the universe or the Hellenist saying Zeus created the universe or the Zulus saying Unkulunkulu created the universe or the Kuba saying Mbombo created the universe or the Christians saying Yahweh created the universe and so on. These are all faith base claims without no evidence linking nor connecting to the exact God.

In every cases, Religions base their argument for God with gaps, e.g because we don't understand this therefore God exist. These gaps or ignorance are used to claim God exist without knowing the implications and fallacies of it.

So like I said evidence and logic can be the best options to measure what's true. Population doesn't prove a true religion, that's argumentum ad populum fallacy(appealing to the people), "Superman has many fans therefore Superman is true".

For now we can just agree Religions are man-made probably created to control the masses and base their claims on ignorance, using irrational fear on the people.

Yes, Muhammad indeed fought for revolution during the Arabian polytheistic era and Islam was replaced as reformation of the previous Religion.

Many polytheistic practice exist in Islam today, Muhammad may have destroyed many ancient records/text of the Arabia polytheists as he did when he destroyed their idols, if he can destroy 300+ idols what makes him not destroy their ancient texts? Or maybe they don't really keep records but I doubt as Arabs are known to writes poems.

This gives many debates and difficulties for historians or history scholars to know the true history before Islam, the records are little, most of the claims of the pre-islamic society are found in the Qur'an and Hadiths and not independent from it, there are no archaeological evidence to confirm many of those claims.

My point is the Qur'an and Hadiths claims of the pre-Islamic Arab society may not even be true and Muhammad and his followers may have done this to reform/reconstruct the society.

What do you think?

Xmuslim:


I have a different opinion about Muhammad regarding women though. He existed during the time when female child are buried alive and he abolished it. He gave women other right such as right to inheritance.

However, extraordinarily stuff is expected from extraordinary religion (as Muslims claim). If Islam is expected to rule our lives upto this century and more, it rulings should not be lesser than our standard. Many things that seems great for women then are now bullsh.it in our modern society.

1. How can we confirm the pre-islamic arabs really did what the muslims claim they did? Most of the source of this claims comes from the Qur'an and Hadiths, there's no archaeological nor independent evidence to support this claim. I'm not saying they can't do it or it can't be true, I'm saying it may also not true, it's my even be a conspiracy by Muhammad and his followers.

2. As for inheritance, well we can't also confirm that too. Khadija the first wife of Muhammad was said to own properties, so this gives room for questions if this claims are true. There's no evidence that independently support any of these claims that women before Islam can't own inheritance or properties.

The pre-islamic arabs can be very harsh on women but there's no how to confirm it(I think somehow their ancient records/texts are lost probably destroyed by Muhammad), how can we know if the Muslims after pre-islamic era are more worse.

And even if Muhammad gave women some rights, he didn't even do up to 5% of it. The rights of women to men in Islam has huge gaps. Your bolded part is true.

In addition.

- Women won't be having virgins in paradise like men, they will be with their husband along side his virgins(according to some scholars).

IMAliyu:
Haven't come across many of them, except a few western muslim women online.
There are multiple things going on here I think.
1. Some of the Muslim feminist are conscious of the patriarchal nature of Islam and probably accept it on a cultural level (eg. Something like a wife should be submissive to her husband, wearing the hijab), but reject it on a legislative level (eg. Reject that the testimony of a woman is half of a man's in court) even if it goes against the doctrine.
2. Are nostalgic about the rights Islam gave women in the past which was relatively egalitarian for it's time and think it still is today. [My commentary: Islam did give women some rights initially, but stagnated as the surrounding cultures progressed]
3. Are probably completely ignorant.

Agreed.

Muhammad claim to give women rights in the past but unfortunately he did not, he made it worse.

Xmuslim:


16. Sprinkling of water on the cloth on which male child urinate prify it, but you must wash the area if it is female child.

I saw someone wrote somewhere that it's because male child urine splashes, and thus difficult to wash. Whereas female child urine concentrate in an area, and therefore easy to wash.

Muslims don't perceive this, but they tend to be the one defending Islam using their intellect with no evidence from Qur'an or hadith. Muhammad would have said this, if it's the reason.

One may begin to think that Muslims are more wiser than Muhammad

It's just a shame.

Xmuslim:
unfortunately, there are more women than men in Islam despite the injustice against them. Maybe they are more Afraid of hell fire than men. Maybe they are more emotional

Yes, Women tends to be more religious because they express their emotions more than men, despite the patriarchy and misogyny in the Religion they still believe in the religion. It's just brainwashing, infact many of them are patriarch apologist glorifying men patriarchy.

I've seen some Muslim women glorifying Muhammad treatment on women, I mean this is someone that permitted women slavery.

Xmuslim:


According to sunni Islam, no female prophet

“And We sent not before you (O Muhammad SAW) but men to whom We inspired” [al-Anbiya’ 21:7].

Yeah, There was actually no female prophets in Islam.

I see some Muslim women calling themselves "feminists", I'm sorry this is oxymoron and you should find another name to call yourselves or you will be disobeying Allah and his Prophet.

In Islamic doctrines women are

1. Second class and doesn't have equal rights with men
2. Can't express their femininity
3. Can't be leaders, Sheikhs, Mufti, Ulema
4. Can't marry multiple husbands
5. Can't marry outside their religion
6. Can't have equal witness with men In court
7. One ram is slaughter for female baby while two for male baby
8. Girl child marriage
9. Can't lead in mosque and call for prayers
10. Can't go out or travel out freely
11. They're the majority in hell
13. Majority prophets are men
14. Can be beaten by their husband
15. You're created from a tiny rib of a man.


And it goes on and on.

You can't be a feminists and still be in a religion that degrade you, kindly stop calling yourself a feminists, you will be provoking Allah and Muhammad. Feminism ideology is equal rights for women in politics, society, home, education, jobs etc. There's no room for this kind of equal right in Islamic doctrines. Islam favor men than women, Islam was founded by men, everything about Islam is patriarchal.

Unless you leave the patriarch misogynistic religion then you can call yourself a feminists but for Muslim feminists, that's self-contradictory. Cheers.

AlBaqir:
HOW MUCH DO YOU KNOW? HIJAB IS NEITHER A PIECE OF CLOTH NOR A FASHION KIND OF DRESS!


CLAIM ONE: Hijab is an ancient Arab style of clothing.

REPLY: Qur'an warn the wives of the Prophet "... and do not display your finery like the displaying of the ignorance of yore..." [sura al-Ahzab: 59]

Had hijab/Jilbab was an ancient Arab style of clothing, why would this instruction be effected?

It is obvious the Arab women of yore display their fineries publicly but Islam instruct believing women saying "... and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers..." [sura an-Nur: 31]

With this establishment, how can Islamic Hijab be said to be Arab cultural dress of yore?

Hijab or head covering was an Arab culture and not only in the Arabians, it was popular culture in the Jew, Persians, Greek, Indians etc

The thing is it wasn't compulsory before Islam came, Muhammad made it compulsory for women.

CLAIM TWO: Hijab is just a piece of cloth.

REPLY: Hijab isn't "just a piece of cloth". It is a command dress code for the Muslim women. Apart from sura Nur: 31 quoted above, here's another verse on Muslims' women dress code:


 Surah Al-Ahzab, Verse 59:

O Prophet! say to your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers that they let down upon them their over-garments; this will be more proper, that they may be known, and thus they will not be given trouble; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful"


So, it is a weird and distant claim that "Hijab or Jilbab is just a piece of cloth".

Hijab is still a piece of cloths to cage women femininity and unfortunately many of these women face harassments too.

CLAIM THREE: Even in Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Iran Saudi Arabia etc non-Muslims' tourists use Hijab, so what's the big deal?


REPLY: First, those non-Muslims who use Hijab were only "compelled" by the law of those lands. They don't use it with the intention of Islamic viewpoints.


Second, a non-Muslim is free to use Hijab or Jilbab (as we could see the Catholic Nuns, the Jains etc) but obviously their aims and objectives is quite different from that of Muslim women although the two can knowingly or unknowingly agree in protecting the society from the harm, evil and corruption of flagrant sexual display of women and the protection of women from being made as sexual advertising objects.

Again, it doesn't protect anything. Women that covers up face sexual harassment.

Third, while a non-Muslim woman is free to use Islamic version of Hijab or Jilbab, she must not impersonate Islam or Muslims as a result. This is where it becomes sensitive. Imagine a commercialized alawo woman (African traditional religion who worship satan and other gods) using Hijab?! While as an individual she might not be rebuked but going by her commercial activity and nature of her job as fetish healer, people will be confused and Islamic value being a monotheistic religion will be smeared.

Ok.

CLAIM FOUR: Where's the African identity if an Afrcian Muslim woman dressed with "Arabian cultural dressing"?

REPLY: Again, Islamic Hijab or Jilbab is not Arabian cultural dressing. Furthermore, Islam respect people's cultures so long it's not barbaric (like dressing naked, killing for rituals etc). Therefore, there is no exact specification of cloth mentioned in the holy Qur'an while instructing Hijab/Jilbab; rather, only general rules were instructed which can be summarized below:

# A Muslim woman should cover her body from head to toe

# A Muslim woman should draw a large garment over herself; therefore, tight-fitting and transparent dress is completely ruled out

# A Muslim woman should not display her fineries and ornaments publicly (except to her husband, father etc as specified in the holy Qur'an).

Fact is, any dress that WILL NOT be seductive, NOT tight-fitting to reveal a woman's shape, NOT transparent and that will be able to cover women's bodily parts is welcome by Islam; be it African style or European or Arab style. A woman who wears a "spaghetti" dress or fit tighting trouser and put a piece of head cover called "hijab" has obviously not use Islamic version of Hijab. A woman who uses for example the Yoruba traditional "iro and buba" while her legs, quarter of her hands, her chest expose has not used Islamic version of Hijab.

Still doesn't change the fact it's Arabian culture.

Hijab is a Muslim woman's pride! If you don't like it, do not ignorantly attack those who passionately embrace it.

Nope, it's not a woman's pride, it's a bondage forced down on them by some Arabian misogynistic patriarch men.

LordReed:


LMFAO! OMFD! This is your proof? Your proof is an atheist making fun of your imaginary god?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[img]https://media1./images/270b2ef1070569dc44a100a9c18cdf63/tenor.gif?itemid=5070201[/img]

GRIMMJOE please come help me I am about to pee my pants with laughter.

He's a clown.

LabuleofNigeria:
Let me ask you this question, Mr. Atheist.

Who created you ??

I don't know if I was created and even if I was created i don't know what or who it's.

LabuleofNigeria:


So, what's a child-beating father's intention ?

To punish a child that knows nothing.

Like I said whatever your intention is, it still makes the act what it's.

If one rape a rapist daughter as punishment, he's also a rapist.

If an executioner kill a murderer as punishment, the executioner is a killer, he has to be a killer to kill a murderer.

LabuleofNigeria:
After his beatings, correction & punishment, wouldnt he accept you with love if you still return to him ?

Still a child beater.

Just like beating your wife makes you a wife beater.

You can't do an act without being the act.

LabuleofNigeria:


Hasnt your father ever flogged you mercilessly to correct you or as punishment while growing up ?
Does that make your father "Wicked" ?

If my father beat me as a child that makes him a child beater. I don't support child beating.

For God to use evil for punishment and to test people even tho he already knows the outcome of everything, that alone makes him evil.

LabuleofNigeria:


Its either you are clearly confused or irrationally biased.

God is not Evil...... He unleashes both Goodness and Evil in a just manner as punishment or as test on humanity.

Doesn't change the fact he isn't evil, you said God created evil and responsible for it existence.

How do you punish someone with evil without being evil?

How do you test someone with evil without being evil?

You have to be evil and love evil to do this, God cannot be all-good.

Rilwayne001:


Typical of you. Never taking correction even when your illogical thinking has been exposed.

A knowledge seeking wise man would admit to errors in thinking when he makes one, that's how he learns and grow. But of course a mind full of ego and presuming himself to be an epitome of intelligence will never admit to his own fallacy. Basically because he's so flawless and think himself impossible to make stupid logical claims.

Again, your atheist brother must be really ashamed of you.

Stop this strawman and leave my Atheists brothers out of this, they know who has flopped/cornered. I didn't say God is evil, your Muslim brother clearly admit it. So God is evil, the thread topic has proved It point.

Again, case closed.

LabuleofNigeria:


You claim "God loves evil"
"Good" or "Evil" which of these did God instructed you to do when you were a Muslim ?
He uses evil as either "Punishment" or "Tests" in a just manner. SEEK KNOWLEDGE bro !

Did your father never ever flogged you while growing up? Does that make him a wicked & evil man ?
U need elementary coaching !!!

You've clearly said God is responsible for evil. Case close.

LabuleofNigeria:


No ! i rather run to Him to bestow his goodness on me, since from Him comes both good & evil

We dont Pray against Satan & We dont blame him for evil. God unleashes good & evil
Your points remains irrelevant and you still remain a disgrace to your fellow Atheist because of your deep ignorance and lies.

Why are you running to a God that's evil? Is this stoic or stockholm syndrome? Or you like evil too?

Your God love evil, I wonder why he gave laws when he's evil, I wonder why he wants to throw people inside hell when he's evil himself.

LabuleofNigeria:


You obviously lacks intelligent.
You claim God & spiritualities doesnt exist, i told you to take a lil assignment and revert to me your feedbacks. You failed (poor soul)
Why the dribbles left & right ?

Its your life, its your belief, its a free world. Take God or leave it (your own problem).
Whenever you are done playing pranks. Take the assignment. Do a video record, dm me, i'll forward you my watsaap so i can get to see.

No jokes here, If u do it without any signs/conviction. Ill renounce my faith!

Nah.. I want it public here.

I've done this many times before I left Islam, Allah never showed up, so maybe if you talk to Allah he may show up and if he didn't you have to renounce Islam. Deal?

LabuleofNigeria:


Its obvious youre now playing hide n seek with the deal !
You lacks confidence and cant go any further, first you claimed videos arent allowed on NL, now youre fleeing away again without a single valid excuse

Dont be a dissgrace to your fellow atheist !

Is there any video option on Nairaland?

I gave you the opportunity to prove your God by praying to your God to give me sign, you can't. If you're sure your God exist what's stopping you from doing so?

Like I said you're not confidence with God.

Swerve man.

LabuleofNigeria:


Now i see how childish you think,
Who owns the logic ?
Who owns the refuge ?
Who gave the life ?
He owns both Evil & Goodness, We seek His mercies to grant us His Goodness and keep us away from His evil. V simple

Just like your boss can promote you at work, same boss who has powers to fire you or make life miserable for you. You do his will promptly & always to seek his favours and likeness.

You're still proving my point. My boss can be a bad person just like your God is evil.

Stop wasting your time praying against Satan and blaming him for evil, your God is the evil himself, runaway from him.

LabuleofNigeria:


Theres life outside NL bro, do the video recording & forward to me for verification !
I want to see it real with your swollen eyes, first speech, first confession & with all sincerity. Then there is a DEAL!
will share my watsap with you.

Nope.

I guess you're not ready to strike any deal, you don't have confidence with your God.

IMAliyu:


I don't get the semantics you guys are going back and forth on.

"I seek refuge in Allah from shaitan the accursed one"

Could easily be synonymized as
"I ask protection in Allah against/from (the deception of) the accursed Shaitan"
And the meaning remains consistent.

Thank you.

I told him both are correct, he keeps saying it's not, I even helped him with the definition.

LabuleofNigeria:


Capital NO !

Go ask primary four kids, its a very simple diction.
You Protect from
You dont protect against

Habaaa.... take a second look at the sentence that originated this explanation
“I seek refuge in Allah from the outcast Shaitan”

The statement has absolutely nothing to do with against in any form.

Its like when you run away from rainfall to hide under a canopy during a heavy downpour, its irrational to twist such and say you are running against rainfal. Anything against the rainfall simply means you are giving some sorts of attack to the rain.

You can run against the rain by going opposite direction or in preparation of the rain or in avoidance of the rain. It's all semantic.

I'm tired of this your nonsense.

Anyways your God is evil too, seek refuge away from him and use logic against him.

LabuleofNigeria:


This is digital age bro
Do a video recording.

No video record or voice note on nairaland.

Do we still have a deal?