₦airaland Forum

mazaje:
I want davidylan to tell us if the only thing that is stoping him from becoming a serial rapist, a drunk, a muderer or a bugler is because he believes that he will be punished when he dies. . . .What system of morality is this that is based purely on the self-interested desire to escape some imaginary damnation I ask again?

The believers are behaving the way they do mostly through indoctrination. That's the reasons they're so quick to assume atheists are all immoral savages  the religion teaches them that atheist(Those that do not believe in their hypothesis) are degenerate animals. This same lie is being told over and over and over and over again throughout their lives that the atheists are walking embodiments of lust, violence, jealousy, anger, sin, etc They spend their lives living under the weight of that twisted accusation (some crack heads amongst them and blow up abortion clinics, etc), but they're all secure in the knowledge that they will be saved despite it. But since the atheists,  and other non believers  etc. don't have Yahweh to make us feel guilty and terrified about all the stuff THEY feel guilty and terrified about, it's easy enough for them to point the finger and assume that while we're all equally bleeped in the head, WE (the non-Christians and atheists especially) are the ones with the problem, because we lack the proper "controls". Pure delusion I must say.

Krayola:
Poetry is not supposed to be taken literally.

If u read the form of the creation account in Genesis 1, you will notice that in it's oral form, before it was written, it was poetry. Its like our indigenous wisdom fill legends. A foreigner taking them literally will never understand what they mean.

Repetition, and a consistent pattern, should clue us in to that. It makes things easy to remember so that it can be passed down thru generations. The Truth in such stories is not in their literal interpretations.

Tell that to the YEC and most of the Africans that take it literally. There are many christians here on the religion sections that TRULY believe that the universe came about based on the creation accounts found in the book of genesis.

Deep Sight:
@ Wirinet/ Toneyb -

First off: i stated that there are historical, cultural and literary aspects to this, because it should be obvious to anyone that ancient writers could only pen down phenomena according to their limited understanding and worldview.

So why are people using the limited understanding of ancient writers to describe events that will happen in the future? What exactly are you trying to say? You are just trying too hard to pass a moot point across.

This does not in any way discredit such writings: it is rather the burden of the reader to decipher the clear meanings from the ancient imagery.

It does, they wrote down what they thought and they happened to be WRONG. What exactly are you trying to say?  

A prime example is this: meteors or meteorites may fall to the earth. When this happens, such objects come into the atmosphere at speed and on impact with the atmosphere may splinter up or be engulfed in heat leading some of these bodies to burn up. Indeed, we are all familiar with the phenomenon of "shooting stars" - a modern term for this phenomena!

The writers of the bible did not know anything like meteorites, If they did they would have written about them, The writers of the koran wrote that meteorites are spears that allah use to destroy the jinns that go up into paradise to evasedrop. They wrote down what they felts about the cosmos and they were  very wrong period.

Now how do you expect an ancient writer to capture such? He only sees a small ball of light smilar to the small lights he sees in the skies and he sees this little ball of light hurtling towards the earth. There is only one way he can capture this event: and that is by stating that stars are falling to the earth. This is why i stated that visual imagery is also important to this, because the writer is simply recording the visual imagery of what he sees. Now how can there be anything wrong with this when even today, meterorites are termed "shooting stars!" Thus it is a historical and literal question of imagery, clearly borne out by even modern references to such objects as being "shooting stars." Language, my friends!

You forget that they were truly sincere in what they were writing and thought they were right. When they talk about stars falling into the earth they truly meant what they were saying, to them stars were tiny light bulbs hanging in the firmament, that fight along side humans in wars as written in some parts of the bible. If you read the book of daniel you will see where daniel had a vision and in that vision he saw a goat whose horn rose right up into the sky, The horn of the goat pushed one of the stars hanging in the sky and the star came falling into the sky and upon reaching the ground the goat stepped on the star. This cleary shows you what they thought the stars were. They very clearly had NO idea of what they stars were if they did they would have written about it.

All manner of objects may fall to the earth. When it is said that God sent down balls of fire to consume sodom and Gomorrah, it must perforce occur to the rational mind that a hail of meteors or a splintered hail of meteors must have rained down on those towns. And such happenings are well documented all around the globe: the markings of the land in many areas of the planet bear witness to this. How else would the ancient writer capture it, if not to state that the stars have fallen to the earth? ? ?

The sodom and gomorrah story might be one of the many mythical stories that can be found in the bible. So we are to accept the writing of ancient writers who were clearly wrong about events and natural occurance on what basis?

It is not the ancient writer that has a problem here: but the modern critic looking for irrelevant things to moot as flaws in scripture.

They thought that the stars were small light bulbs hanging in the sky which were created only to give light to the earth and to mark the seasons, to them the stars can fight along side humans in wars and fall into the earth some day.They were wrong. Accept it and stop apologizing for things that do not make any sense at all.

When you say this, just bear in mind the concept of visual imagery again. Because if a prophet sees a vision of a distant time in the future, where the earth is, for example, drawn by the gravitational pull of a star (cosmic alignments do change over time), it is conceivable that a planet could be sucked in by a star. Now from the standpoint of observers on that planet, it would appear as though the star is "falling" into it, whereas in reality the tiny planet is being drawn into the massive star. Visual imagery at work again. Just a thought.

The problem is that they ancient writers do not even know that there are planets, when their god was inspiring them to write about how he created the earth he did not even bother to tell them that he created planets because their god did not even know that planets existed. So the point you are trying to make is completely moot.

Realtol:
@kay17 you are wrong they are not following the footstep of the muhamed on this, if they want to follow da footsteps of muhamed they should marry a woman who is older than them not their grand daughter because this was what muhamed did by marry a wealthy old lady (i think we could all see the inception of jigolo here). I blv the almangiri in the house "Abuzola" can confirm this story.

Mohammed married a 6 year old girl.

The question to ask is not if christians sin but if christians truly believe in god and truly believe that there is a god that is watching over them all the time. Would a student copy from another student's test or exams with the teacher watching? No, because the teacher will grab the students's test and give him/her a zero. Would a person rob a bank, or commit any crime right in front of witnesses who will be able to easily identify him? No, because he wouldn't want to go to jail. So, if people behave when human authorities are watching and with human penalties at stake, why don't they behave when god is watching with eternal penalties at stake?

Would a priest molest an alter boy if he thought or truly believe that a god was watching? would Nigerian preachers claim to heal people (scam) if they really believed in a god that watches and punishes people for their wrong doing? Would clergy work to take life savings from members of their church? Would christians go around stealing, engaging in homosexual acts(Teg Haggard) if they truly believe that a god is watching? From my own observations of Christians I think a very large majority of Christians don't really believe.  But when they think they're being observed they behave AS IF they believe. When they are in situations where other Christians can see them, their minds clog up with a blend of submission to peer pressure. When they're at ease away from fellow Christian scrutiny many revert to their true natural selves, all that good Christian stuff goes straight out the window, Only a tiny few are so deeply deluded that they think and behave as if their god is actually present with them 24/7, even when alone.

wirinet:
Toneyb,

You need to brush up a bit on your astronomy. Our star - The Sun which is an ordinary star is Over I Million times bigger that the earth. Some Red Giants are over 100 times bigger than our own sun.

I am also surprised that some people still choose to believe 21^st century B.C assumptions over 21^st century A.D science, that stars are points in the dome of the firmaments and might fall someday.

Point noted. The stars will fall into the earth some day . If there is any thing the writers of the bible have shown is that the do not understand basic astronomy at all. They wrote down that the sun moves around the earth, the also said that the earth can be stopped from rotating and that they stars were created for signs.

davidylan:
1. We know what atheism is about - a cowardly way of refusing to take moral responsibility for your life.

Sorry you don't know anything at all. Where is your evidence to show that christians take more moral responsibility for their lives better than atheist? The best law abiding countries with the lowest crimes, lowest corruption, equality of sexes, highest life expectancy and best social systems in the world to day happen to be atheist countries(Sweden, Denmark, Belgium, Netherland). Can you compare the moral responsibility that is obtainable in a country like Sweden where about 90% of its population are atheist to southern Nigeria where a mojority of the populace are Christians? You are truly a deluded person.

2. We know why you "despise" christianity . . . (funny since none of you ever despises islam, scientology or sango worshipers) its because you hate the moral discipline it forces on you.  It has nothing to do with what christianity has done to you.

Mazaje, Tudor, bindex, Huxley etc. Do these name sound like people that Honour Islam? . Your are really trying too hard, What is the moral discipline that Christianity forces on people? You don't have a higher moral credibility than any atheist here and that is a FACT. Where is your evidence to show that Christians have more moral values or crediblity than atheist? A look around the world says that you do not know what you are talking about. Some times I wonder why people come on the internet only to keep embarassing themselves all the time.

mavenbox:
@mazaje: Are you saying that a distant star or another planet cannot be shaken off course and plummeted into the earth, regardless of the fact that it is larger than this planet, earth?

Let me help out here too, The stars(distant suns) are way way bigger than the earth some of them are even bigger than our own sun which happen to be about a 1000 times bigger than our earth and some of them have planets revolving around them like our sun so how can they fall into the earth? They stars are not just some tiny light bulbs shining in the night sky as the writers of the bible thought. They also are solar systems to other planets. They Can NEVER fall into the earth.

Deep Sight:
^^^ Under the known laws and assumptions of physics, that is. . .

Given the vastly unknown and undeciphered mysteries of the universe, i would not be so bold as to positively assert any cosmic event to be "impossible."

Can you explain to us how the stars(Most of which are a hundred or a thousand times bigger than the earth) will fall into the earth? I can't believe that some one just asked that question. Do you really think that the stars will some day fall into the earth, You must be kidding right?

Nezan:
You do not have evidence that the epic of Gilgamesh was written before Noah’s story, because it was documented around 3000BC, while Noah’s story was documented well before then . . . stop confusing yourself with atheists literature, the next thing you will hear them desperately trying to deny that Jesus ever existed.

Where is your own evidence to show that Noah's story was written before 3000BC or around 4500 five hundred years ago? Some scholars have made the case that the OT was written during the time of King Josiah (1800 BC). The stories were passed on through oral tradition for generations and where first written down during the reing of King Josiah of Judah.

No matter how you now try to deny, the fact remains that Noah’s flood occurred 1656 years after creation, even from your points, you said the story was documented around 3000BC, way after Noah’s flood.

Where is your evidence that Noah's flood occured 4500 years ago?. . . . .there were other civilizations around that time who recorded a continious flow of their historical account and how come they didnt record any flood that wiped them off?

Deep Sight:
^^^ But a large part of sharia law deals with cultural values.

What do you make of the distinction between Core and Cultural Values i tried to discuss above?

Can you really separate what you label as core values and what you label as cultural values? I say this because the way of life of people a group of people(culture) is what determines their in most cases values. Kay 17 gave an excellent example of the old German tribes where it was not even possible to steal because no man owns property where does your core belief in stealing apply to this society since it is structured on a culture that does not even permıt stealing in the first place? There are exceptions to all these beliefs. Example back during the OT days it was ok to enslave the gentiles, It was ok and acceptable to pillage the lands of the gentiles during war, despoil their women and steal their belongings. The core values had no application in such societies. Morality has no absolutes because it keeps evolving. People used to accept the poor treatment of blacks based on the color of our skin. Enslaving blacks was the right thing to do and was accepted by the society. Public hanging of run away slaves was acceptable. It wasn't a core value at that time.

There are people that still believe today that it is very right  for women to be publicly flogged when they go out alone in some extremist Islamic countries(Parts of Pakistan and Afghanistan) Where does what you call core values apply her? Homosexuals are now been allowed to marry in some western countries something that was against the core beliefs of most of the countries granting them those rights about 200 years ago. Morality is determined by the way of life of the people and what you label as core values vary from society to society. Even core values change from time to time and from generation to generation. What is considered to be against our core values today might be accepted by our grand children's generation.

I don't want to derail this thread for you because I don't think these discussion was part of what you were expecting. I will allow you and the people your posed those questions to, to respond to your queries.

Deep Sight:
Not so fast Tony -

This is where he said it -

Thus if human sacrifice is right in Aztec land, then morally there is nothing wrong with continuously killing people for such purposes.

Whereas i had sought to point to the generality of societies, he made reference to the moral determinant being individual societies -

Thus the Nazi Holocaust was morally right, according to Kay17.

I hope you can see. . .

What I believe he was trying to point out what there no absolute right or absolute wrong. Objective moral values do not exist because morality differs from society to society.

Sharia law is endeared in the Muslim countries but considered to be barbaric in non Muslim countries.

Kay 17- Atheist, Rational, very cool, new kid on the block. _{Religion is a farce}

Deep Sight:
Because if your argument is taken at the crest, what you are saying amounts to stating that there is nothing wrong with being a serial killer. . .

You are now beginning to display your lawyer credentials by putting words into people's mouths. Where did he Insinuate what you have written above?

Nezan:
Even if the earth were older, that do not change the fact that your documented evidence of the rainbow is 3000BC, whereas the global flood took place about 1656 years after creation, meaning in essence that it was first seen by Noah before your Sumerian king saw it in 3000BC, no?

I think we are not on the same plain here. Let me clarify the point I was trying to make. I was trying to show you that the Oldest document which we have existing says talks about a rainbow. The Epic of Gilgamesh is the first detailed written evidence of human civilization. Its predates the story of Noah. The Noah's story was passed from one generation to another through Oral tradition and was later written around 1000 BC or 1250 BC according to some scholars.The Epic of Gilgamesh was writing before the Noah' story was written, It also could have been passed from one generation to another through oral tradition like the Noah's account before it was written down in 3000 BC. The point I was trying to make was that the earliest writing document talks about a rainbow because it was written before the Noah's story was written even though the Story was been told Orally and had not yet been written down.

Moreover this thread is not about the age of the earth. I only indulged you because of your denial that the king of sumeria first saw the rainbow in 3000BC before Noah. No matter how long you date the earth, including our modest estimates, the fact still remains that Noah first saw the rainbow, about 1656 years after the world was created BEFORE your sumeria king saw it.

I was pointing to a story that talked about the rainbow that was written before the one of Noah was penned down.

JeSoul:
1. Salvation of Sincere Non-Christians: The Bible Perspective and the Realist Perspective.

a) Sincere non-christian who never heard about Jesus Christ:
Romans 2 addresses this fully (CEVersion) "Those people who don't know about God's Law will still be punished for what they do wrong. And the Law will be used to judge everyone who knows what it says. God accepts those who obey his Law, but not those who simply hear it.
 Some people naturally obey the Law's commands, even though they don't have the Law. This proves that the conscience is like a law written in the human heart. And it will show whether we are forgiven or condemned, when God appoints Jesus Christ to judge everyone's secret thoughts, just as my message says."

Ok Let me talk like a Christian now lets examine this statement from Paul and the one Jesus. Jesus says that except a man be born again he CANNOT enter into the kingdom of god. He did not talk about any law written in any body's heart at all. He only said to be saved and get access into the kingdom of the God who sent him you must be born again else nothing for you. Whose words supersedes that of Jesus or that of Paul? Jesus also says that He is the way the truth and the life that NO ONE can come to his father EXCEPT through him, again he did not talk about any law written in any bodies heart at all.

Now to the Issue of the law, What exactly are the laws that are written in people's hearts? There is an ancient Australian tribe that truly believe that eating the flesh of their enemies will make them better hunters, so they went around killing their neighbors. In what part of their hearts was the law of not killing their neighbors and eating their flesh writing?  How does a person obey the commandments of God like tithe and offering or observing the sabbath with out knowing about it? In what part of their hearts is this law writing? What about the law of divorce? Some societies do not see any thing wrong with divorce at that time or had divorce laws that were completely different from the one writing in the bible, In what part of their hearts were the bible divorce laws writing?

What about the laws of stoning disobedient Children who curse their parents to death. Jesus was very comfortable with it (Mat 15: 1-6) What about those of them that did not grow ın societies that accept that form of punishment? In what part of their hearts were such laws writing? What about the Southern Nigerians who lived hundreds of years ago that truly believed that it was right to kill their twin babies and did that ritual with great pride? Why was a law against that not writing in their hearts?

Krayola refree? Don't go around distributing cards(yellow and red cards) all through the period of the game Please, remember it is a contact sport so some fouls can be over looked and pardoned.

Nezan:
Even if the earth were more than 6000 years old, 1656 years after creation will put the Sumerian king far apart from the date of the flood.

Where is your scientific peer reviewed paper that says the earth is 6000 years Old? There were civilizations that date up to over 10000 years ago so what are you saying?

Bring up the arguments to debunk these and let’s trash them here.

I will not debate the already debunked YEC propaganda. Even answersingenesis website which is the biggest YEC resource material website on the internet have dropped a number of those claims, as being unable to stand up to inspection even by their standards. (Moon dust, The earth's magnetic field) and put them under the ''Arguments that should never be used'' category according to their website.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-, ts-we-dont-use

Even your fellow YEC in answersingenesis agree that these claims are baseless and untrue.

But in case you want to read more about how these baseless claims have been debunked here is a link.

http://paleo.cc/ce/yeclaims.htm

Deep Sight do you believe in the after life hypothesis? Fantasy

Kay 17:
agnostics are a band of confused minds. this is simple. the church outrightly confess that their entire religion is based on belief. belief is not the same with fact. belief is a psychological state in which an individual holds a premise to be true regardless of the true facts while a fact is a pragmatic truth which is capable be checked and confirmed. truth is the state of been in accordance with reality. from this definitions supplied by wikipedia, belief is entirely subjective and is being manipulated by the individual that holds them and it shares similarity with illusion, while facts is an objective check with reality and far different from opinion and belief.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           that, thus explains the differences in religion. the christians believe that the earth was created in 6 days which is TERRIBLY inconsistent with reality(if you bring the omniscient argument for this one, then you imply that the demon of malaria is responsible for malaria rather than plasmodium because you would be dismissin the current knowledge we hold and substitute it for the junk  in the Bible) , the yorubas believe that an idiot oduduwa with the help of a two toed chicken and a handful of sand, created earth.there other bizarre stories put forward by other religions. we are in the age of reason, and that has served us well since we do not need to rely on prayer to cast out the demon of malaria and HIV. if we rely on belief to explain our existence then which of the myriad religions we are to pick from.                                                                                                                                                                                                                   @aletheia, prove that your God exists and why your religion among all others( tens of thousands of religions and millions of gods) is the ONE,  pls , do not use that omniscient argument again because i would not accept any thing that comes out of your head since you are not one. if your God is not dark matter, pls do not refer it.

Very nicely written.

PapaBrowne:
@Wirinet

Let me give you a slight analogy.
Imagine for one moment a set of twins in their mother's womb.

Why don't you just accept that the whole Idea of god/gods are imaginary just like your imaginary analogy?

One twin says : "Hey, we have a mother. She is responsible for all that we are. We exist because she allowed some guy somewhere between her legs.We are alive because she eats and drinks. She cares so much for us that she goes regularly to a guy called doctor for something called ante-natal".
"Sometimes I hear her speak to us. She calls us babies. She loves us so much that she would do anything for us.
She says we give her joy. I hear it. She keeps thinking about us every moment".

How did he know about the mother? Did his mother communicate with him? Mothers can not communicate with their unborn baby. How did the baby get to know about the mother what was the means or medium of communication between him and his mother? This analogy falls very flat because you are supposing that unborn babies can reason talk and exchange ideas.

The other twin replies. "What are you talking about. You are just imagining things. There is nothing like Mother. Have you ever seen her? If you say she speaks to us, how come I never hear her? Hey fella, I am on the side of "what you see, is what you get" No hidden charges or bonuses. I wouldn't waste my time thinking about some Mother  that you've just imagined up".
"If truly we have a mother, why can't she come get us out of this blood soaked tight sac that we've been locked up in since conception".

Babies do not have these type of communication at all. You are just offering imaginary analogies that have no basis in reality just like the god hypothesis. You can do better man.

Twin one says": If only you understood you wouldn't speak like this. She loves us so much that she is going to endure the most grueling pain of her life just to get us out of here. It won't be long, we would be out of here in her arms, free to move around and at the same time feel her love.
She would give us bosom to suck, food to eat, she would bathe us and put us to bed. So much love she would give to us.

While this analogy about a mother might be true, There is no evidence to show that any god takes care of his children and love them the way a mother does.

This analogy gives you a perfect picture on our relationship with God. You don't have to see to believe. The mere fact that a baby can't see or feel the presence of it's mother doesn't mean the mother doesn't exist.
For me, I know for sure that I didn't make my digestive system, neither did I do anything to ensure that my lungs process oxygen. I know for sure that it has all been regulated by my creator.

How do you know that a baby can not feel the presence of its mother? It has been established scientifically that babies have that ability so what exactly is your point? What about the millions of babies world wide that were born with a weak or failing heart and lungs that does not function at all or functions badly? Were their weak and failing hearts/lungs regulated by your god too?

Hey Atheists, we all know atheism is a ruse and it exists solely because God exists. If believers in God are wrong, then there should be no need for such a thing as atheism.

You speak as if there is only one god that is claimed to be in existence. During the days of Zues some disbelieved in his existence, does that mean that zues truly existed?

Ogaga4Luv - Accomplished serial killer, eccentric, very strange- _{I am a son of satan}

Noetic - Christian apologist, anti-Islam, fun, intelligent, very opinionated, rude- _{How many times have i exposed your ignorance}

OLAADEGBU - YEC, Strong convictions, conspiracy theorist, Propagandist- _{Why believe in the fallible words of men that talks about billions of years when the bible says its only 6000 years old.}

Mazaje - Fun, rational, intelligent, rude,atheist, snob, great guy- _{Keep on wallowing in your ridiculous delusions}

Wirinet- Cool, rational, enlightened,eloquent and intelligent - _{I am a slave to science and reason.}

Davidylan- Christian apologist, Intelligent, boastful, egoist, anti-islam, rude- _{I am a scientist too, please acknowledge me.}

Deep Sight - A gentleman, Intelligent, intellectual-_{Every body must acknowledge the greatness and oneness of infinity}

Krayola- Open minded, honest, articulate, fun.- _{All religions are man made if you study their history}

Tudor- Intelligent, rude, fun, atheist, good guy- _{Bishop Oyedepo is a senseless criminal and charlatan}.

Pastor AIO - Intelligent, Esoteric, Fun. _{I believe in all religions}

Jesoul - Respectful, christian, affable. [s]Forget mazaje am a multi-millionaire any time you feel like marrying for convenience I am ever ready [/s]

Chrisbenogor - Agnostic atheist, honest, and Respectful

Bomolowo - One liner, fun.

A K O - Absent

Viaro- Intelligent, Christian apologist, vague, esoteric and evasive. _{Every body is entitled to his/her world view}

Uplawal - Confused Jihadist. _{Thank god i am a muslim}

DGreatRock - Random

Mama-gee (f) - Unfamiliar

Hubreality - Christ embassy _{The secret spirits of the kıngdom have been revealed to those that worship pastor chris.}


Kola Oloye - Unfamiliar

MrCrackles - Random

Osisi or Ohsisi - Anti-islam- _{Mohammed is an evil pedophile and war lord}

Riff-Raff - Random

No2Atheism - Opinionated and very strange- _{All the present Israelites living in Israel are impostors because the real jews were blacks and came from africa.} 

Kag- Intelligent, Rational and Cool- _{Has any body found the invisible pink unicorn yet?}

Huxley - Intelligent, Rational and Cool -_{I believe in the scientific process.}

Okija-juju -Fun, Fun and more Fun

Abuzola - Terrorist, terrorist sympathizer, terrorism- _{Allah please make me die a Martyr and punish all the unbelievers in hell fire.}

Kunleoshob -  Cool, open minded, Rational - _{The true teachings of jesus in the bible have been changed by men}

Tpia - Random, fun and cool

Obalende - unfamiliar

Banom - Funny, Affable, and the present celebrity of the religion section. _{I am now a christian}

Olabowale - Moslem Apologist, respectful, strong convictions _{Allah is great}

Atheists - Random

Chukwudi44 - Random

Manmustwac -  Atheist, Fun, Fun and more Fun _{Do you know when dinosaurs lived?}

Jagunlabi - Opinionated and vague

Mushin- Very Cool, Muslim, Respectful _{Islam is the only true religion}


Bobbyaf - Absent

May Kelly - Outlandish, strange, end of day enthusiast. _{All of you will rot in hell.}

SeanT21 - Unfamiliar

Mavenbox - Unfamiliar

Horus - Strange, anti-christian, pro african, pro black, propagandist and conspiracy theorist. _{White people are responsible for all the evils we see around.}

Realtol:
In many cases in quran and hadith and in practice today as well we heard of many cases where muslims or non muslims are killed, maim, get their hands, legs or head chop off (even till this day) without being giving second chance to mend their way but stone on their head gbam, gbam gbam or sword on their part of the body, gun sometimes gbo gbo, all this for sin being committed. I'm now wondering wether they are making heaven for this supposedly killed or we should use slay or it's that they are making heaven themselves (those who partake in killing). Pls y can't they leave this person for God to judge? or do they think allah would not do it to the extent they are doing it? Can they really fight for God as they claim? Pls no offence here, and no verbal attack but reasonable reply is welcomed.

Did you not read your own bible where the biblegod told his chosen men to stone to death any one that disobeys the law of the sabbath? What about the man that was allegedly stoned to death in the bible because he was caught picking sticks on the sabbath? Why wasn't he given a second chance? Even Jesus believes in the stoning to death of disobedient children.

Mat 15: 1 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
Mat 15:2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
Mat 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
Mat 15:4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
Mat 15:5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
Mat 15:6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

Jesus was berating the people for changing the word of god which says children that curse their parents should be stoned to death.

aletheia:
1. Your god helped free his chosen people. So you acknowledge for a fact He exists? BTW His chosen ones also includes Rwandans.

Here is what is written in the bible.

"Isa 40:11 He tends his flock like a shepherd: He gathers the lambs in his arms and carries them close to his heart; he gently leads those that have young."

Where was he to carry the innocent Ruwandans that were hiding in the churches and calling unto his name for protection during the genocide? Is it not written in the bible that the god of the bible will tend to his flock(those that believe in him) like a shepherd? Other parts of the bible say that he will guide and protect his own. So where was he to protect the innocent people that were killed in the churches who very busy calling unto him for protection?

Enough of your god works in mysterious ways that people can not understand because your bible says that there is a part of the this god called the holy spirit that resides in those that believe an its function is to teach and explain things to believers.

bawomolo:
you seem to have a pattern of claiming everyone accedes to the existence of the non-physical.   Is this what you want to believe? or you unable to see beyond your own dogma?

He is a lawyer so he sees only in black and white. I win you loose .I guess he is preparing his credentials to become a SAN. So he believes everything is about winning and losing.

aletheia:
1. Is that a true statement?
2. Do you believe it?

Let me come in here, I agree very well with mazaje that the truth does not require belief. he once gave an example on another thread and I am going to use it here again.

Let me just parapharse what he said.

A car that runs on pertrol can not be travel 100 km on an empty tank. That is a true statement that does not require belief. A man can not give birth to a baby, that also is a true statement that does not require belief. There are other planets in the solar system that is a true statement and it also does not require belief.

Jesus christ is the son of god who is presently sitting on the right hand of god is a statement that requires belief.

Mohammed is the last prophet of allah who once divided the moon into two is a statement that requires belief. The devil resides in the oceans is a statement that requires belief, there are Jinns inside the Ka'aba is a statement that requires belief.

The spirit of sango is watching over his believers is a statement that requires belief.

So I agree the truth does not require belief.

This is a hard one but I like so many people for so many different reasons. So my best posters are.

Pilgrim_1, Pastor AIO and Viaro- The most intelligent theist present here on nairaland based on the quality of their post.

Mazaje, Tudor, Wirinet, Huxley, Bindex,Krayola and Kag. The greatest defenders of atheism on the board. Never a dull moment with these folks.

Jesoul, Olaadegbu, Neotic and Davidylan- The religion section will be very dull without them. I like the very passionate and opinionated posts of Neotic and Davidylan. Never a dull moment with these folks too.

Deepsight for his well thought out and intellectual anaylsis as well as his temperement.

Mushin, Olabowale and Oyb- Good moslem apologist with some sense of humour.

Nezan:
@ toneyb;

Though atheists argue that the age of the earth is about billions of years, recent studies are disproving them:

Who are the atheist that argue that the earth is billions of years Old? Is Hugh Ross an atheist? Dave Matson, Dr. Joshua Zorn, William lane Criag and millions of other christians out there that all agree that the earth is much much more than 6000 years old. By the way where is your scientific peer reviewed data that shows that the earth is 6000 years old?  . The earth is 6000 years old according to "scientist" liars like Ken Ham and Kent Hovind. These people have shown over and over again that they do not know any science at all. They only tell lies to give credibility to their own apoinion about what is written in the bible.

The Shrinking Sun
Since 1836, observations of the sun indicate it is shrinking about five feet an hour. Studies show this has been true for at least 400 years. At this rate, 100,000 years ago the sun would be twice as large as it is today. Twenty million years ago the sun would have touched the earth.

The Moon's Dust
Interplanetary dust and meteors is depositing dust on the moon at the rate of at least 14,300,000 tons per year. At this rate, if the moon were 4.5 billion years old there would be at least 440 feet of dust on the moon. The astronauts, however, found a layer only 1/8 to three inches thick. Three inches would take only 8000 years. Even evolutionists believe the moon is the same age as the earth, giving the earth's age as only 8000 years.

The Magnetic Field
The earth has a magnetic field that is constantly decreasing due to the Second Law of Thermodynamics. The half-life of the magnetic field is 1400 years. Only 2800 years ago the magnetic field would be four times as strong as it is now. Only 10,000 years ago the magnetic field would be as strong as a magnetic star and be a nuclear power source as the sun. For this reason the earth could not be more than 10,000 years old.

The Earth's Rotation
The rotation of the earth is gradually slowing down at about .00002 seconds a year. The lost energy is transferred to the moon. The moon, therefore, is slowly moving away from the earth at about 4 centimeters a year. This would put the moon in contact with the earth less than 2 billion years ago. Yet, if the moon were closer than about 11,500 miles, the moon would be broken into tiny pieces, much as the rings of Saturn.

The Missing Helium
Helium is generated as radioactive uranium decays. This is known as radiogenic helium, and is the primary source of helium in the earth's atmosphere. If the earth were really 4.5 billion years old as claimed by the evolutionists, the atmosphere would be saturated with this helium. But it isn't. Where did it go? It can't escape to space. The simple answer, of course, is that the earth isn't really that old.

The Comet Mystery
Comets, as they orbit the sun, are literally torn apart by gravitational forces, internal explosions, and solar winds. Short period comets can't exist for more than 10,000 years. Most astronomers believe that comets originated at the same time as the solar system. That limits the age of the solar system to about 10,000 years.

All these pathetic lies from the YEC that have been debunked over and over again. Can you show me the scientific peer reviewed article that says that the earth is 6000 years old?

Nezan:
@ toneyb;
Considering the fact that the earth is about 6000 years old, and the flood took place about 1656 years after creation, this will put the year of the flood around 4344BC. Though careful calculations put it at 4990BC, this gives a period of between 1344-1990 years before the Sumerian king you mentioned existed (i.e. 3000 BC). This certainly means that the Sumerian king existed a over a millennium after the flood existed and God gave the rainbow covenant, so stop dating him to Noah’s period.

Considering the fact that which earth is 6000 years old?   The earth that was talked about in the bible or the earth that we are living inside, they are two different earths you know one is a mythical one(the earth talked about in the bible where Yahweh sometimes come down and fight with people) and the real earth we live in. The earth that exist on the pages of the bible might be 6000 years old but the earth we live in is NOT 6000 years old.

There were other civilizations that wrote their own histories like that indians and the chinese that date back around 6000 years ago. So what are you talking about? Hope you know that Judaism is not the olddest religion in the world? I am talking about reality and you are giving me the conclusions you have made based on the myths(Noah's myth) some people wrote down around 1800BC?

jagunlabi:
God and his prophets seem to only operate in a certain specific part of the world.What prophets did God send to the black africans in the ancient times?Does anyone know?

I know

Nezan:
@tonyb;

The Bible made the claim that Noah and the survivals of the flood saw the rainbow for the first time. If you have evidence that it was a lie, that it was seen before, any recorded evidence, because science is circumstantial to credible evidence, then present it rather than making empty noise.

Which flood exactly are you talkıng about? There were people living in China about 4300 years ago at the time of the alleged flood, they were writing down thier own history continously and they did not write about any flood that came and destroyed them compeletly so what flood exactly are you talking about because all the FACTS show that the flood story was only a Hebrew mythology that happened ONLY in the pages of their religious text.

"The Epic of Gilgamesh, who was an ancient Sumerian king (ca.3000 BC), is our first detailed written evidence of human civilization. In a Victorian translation of a Gilgamesh variant, Leonidas Le Cenci Hamilton's Epic of Ishtar and Izdubar, King Izdubar sees "a mass of colors like the rainbow’s hues" that are "linked to divine sanction for war." Later in the epic, Izdubar sees the "glistening colors of the rainbow rise" in the fountain of life next to Elam’s Tree of Immortality.

The Sumerian farmer god Ninurta defends Sumer with a bow and arrow, and wore a crown described as a rainbow."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbows_in_mythology

Deep Sight:
Tony - You didn't say anything on the above. . .

Sorry I left yesterday and didn't see your reply. I have no problem with the first cause agrument at all. I just do not believe it is any of the gods of all the man made religions. Their creation accounts are there for all to read. As some have pointd out before the universe as it is makes all the gods of man made religion to look insignificant.