₦airaland Forum

fratermathy:
Importing Venetian and Egyptian Beads in the 15th-18th centuries.!

I give you hands for your ethnic brigandry. It is an archetype.

Wit all your intellectual gymanstics and acrobatics you can't decipher sacarsm


Hian

melzabull:
Its always risky to leave these 'hypothesis/conclusions' unchecked or unchallenged

Lets hope he does...lol

He won't

lyntiffany:
we use beads also on out head,ankles and waist. It's popularly known as jigida hope a correct.

We as well tie 2 wrappers known as Holland is and scarf to go with. Don't have pictures to butress my point but your first pics and that of op says all.

Yes

And mind you therr are various beads in ancient Igbo and this varies from place to place some people use white some cream while others reddish color

aim5:
The Edo were never traders? Are you kidding me?

Traded in what ..they were never known as traders ....nor sea fearers Benin never had an important merchant town akin to ancient Onitsha banks or Kano trans Sahara route

Name one edo merchant town ?

melzabull:
I will forgive your churlishness and your remorsefulness is noted.

Bother sides had sizeable influences on the other as ezeagu noted

Simple and he won't admit that

fratermathy:
Copy and Paste.

Not everyone copied and pasted their way through school.

So you can beat your chest and say you researched this bunkun

Ihuomadinihu:
You still on the bead thing! OMG! Igbos were already importing Venice and Egyptian beads.
Any group is free to use coral beads according to their fashion sense. Stop with the bead issue,it's so stale!

The dude said Igbo borrowed bead from edo as if edo had vessels that navigate the seas or edo had ports

Edo were never traders nor sailors

fratermathy:
Now we are talking. You just prove yourself to be sane and I hereby withdraw any abusive statement made against your person.

Igbos did not steal or copy Edos. They modelled their system "LIKE" that of the Edos.

He has lost steam and has lost choice of words to use in his I'll researched report

Too much copy and paste

fratermathy:
And you are intellectually myopic and verbally unpolished.

One way to know an empty vessel that has lost steam is when he resorts to insults



Good night


You have finally disgraced yourself here.I will leave you to women so that they can finally take you to cleaners Mr. Verbally polished


Next time do research before you post ...don't be intellectually lazy and docile

melzabull:
No one has tried to put words in your mouth here, they've only tried to correct your impression on you op on Igbo women dressing like Benin women, but for some funny reasons like tonychristopher noted earlier, you've proved incorrigible. This wolda saved a lot of arguments here

He is very incorrigible and adamant

fratermathy:
Correct impressions!!! That Igbos were not influenced by Edos in any way? There is nothing to be corrected there and hence my affirmative and retaliatory actions. If I made an error and it was rightly pointed out, I would have bowed and acknowledged it. I did so in some of my earlier posts concerning the Nupe people. This is a case I wont let go because the Igbo communities I know in Delta, Anambra and Enugu have systems "akin" and not necessarily copied from the Edo system.
If I say Anioma, Orlu, Oguta, Mbiase and other pockets of Igboid groups share some Monarchical and fashion-based similarities with Edo, their neighbour, then you have to counter-prove this with facts.

So what are you saying

You say that edo monarchial system is akin to Igbo notbtge other way round because NRI is older than Benin kingdom

fratermathy:
I have answered your questions. Screw up or check your mentions.

Igbos being more artistic or intelligent or what have we, have no bearing in their potentiality of being culturally hegemonised.

How ?

aim5:
Ha Benin has a connection with Guinea too but I won't get into that. And yes, I'm aware that Igbo has connections that extend past Nigeria in places like Equatorial Guinea and Sierra Leone, I'm not disputing that. Also, by me stating that certain areas have some Edo influence doesn't mean that I'm trying to colonize them.

Now you can agree with me ..having influence is different from colonising

Ihuomadinihu:
Lmao. The Igbos had beads and artifacts way before the Benin people emerged. You should look up to the igbos not the other way round.

I taya for am

fratermathy:
"Rubbish".


Igbos being technocratic and handy has no bearing in Edo's cultural hegemony. You keep bringing up points to prove my initial premise. The fact that Igbos were "borrowed" by the Edos to do their beads and artifacts even give more credence to the idea that there Masons, carpenters and craftsmen took home what they have learned about Edo culture. This is a hypothesis. I'd write a scholarly article on this theory. Thanks for the pointers. This argument has been purposeful so far even though it was started on a faulty counter-premise.

Now you are shooting yourself

For edo to borrow Igbo artisans to do their artefacts points that Igbo must have developed artistic skills that awed edo so they have to borrow them ..this is what we term expertriates today


Sobas you can see Igbo was more artistic


You have not answered my questions
Your tribe
And
What factors show that Igbo kingship is akin or copied as you said to edo

Ihuomadinihu:
If someone starts up something that looks like yours,does it mean he copied you? Infact Edo artifacts were made by Igbos. It's a know fact that Igbos were hired by Edo to make artifacts for them. Quit spewing rubbish.

Eze chime was one if them

fratermathy:
Answer to question? Yes, Nri kingdom is archaeologically older than Edo kingdom. This has no bearing in Edo's far more vast and outriching cultural hegemony on Nri land especially those borderline lands. In fact, this hegemony is so strong that some Igbo groups such as Ikwerre, Ndokwa and Ika claim to be Benin people.

Claiming to be Benin people is different to been Benin people

There are excommunicated and exiled Benin people that found refugee in ika not ndokwa some ndokwa even migrated from places like awkuzu in present day anambra go to obiaruku and check their history

Do you want me to lecture on that

If you do let me know

fratermathy:
Answer to question? Yes, Nri kingdom is archaeologically older than Edo kingdom. This has no bearing in Edo's far more vast and outriching cultural hegemony on Nri land especially those borderline lands. In fact, this hegemony is so strong that some Igbo groups such as Ikwerre, Ndokwa and Ika claim to be Benin people.

Do you also agree that Benin borrowed some Igbo words and other things also
So if NRI is older than Benin it is bound that Benin must have looked up to NRI for inspiration

Do you know that many western Igbo are of NRI such as ogwa ashi ukwu and Igbo bi na uzor they call igbuzor ?

PreciousBro:
These four igbo towns you mentioned are situated in the western and northern axis of igboland,a point i have tried to sync into ezeagu's grasp as testament to the strength of whatever influence or borrowed stuff you all are talking about.it has zero impact on the southern igbos. ooh well
...i don taya jare

I have told them this ..me seff don taya

aim5:
Nope. The Isidahomen story may or may not be true but some people from Sao Tome and Principe have Edo words in their Creolized lingua due to the fact that the Portuguese and Edo traded with each other.

Do you know panya ..there is a place that our Igbo grand father's call panya ..I won't tell you ask any Igbo man


Do you know that Igbo is spoken in e Guinea
And also we have Igbo creaole in Sierra Leone

Pls ask questions


Do we say Igbo colonised them ? NO

so find another theory

aim5:
Some even say that Dahomey was named after the Esan general Isidahomen.. also quite a few Sao Tome people speak a Creolized form of Edo. These people so insecure they can't admit that Benin Kingdom spread through some parts of West Africa.

Bunkum

fratermathy:
I've told you before and I reiterate again, THE AGE OF A CULTURAL ENTITY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ITS POTENTIALITY OF BEING AN HEGEMONIC INFLUENCE OR BEING HEGEMONICALLY INFLUENCED! If you cant understand this simple concept then it doesn't surprise me why you cant understand all that I have been hampering.

Big grammar

Answer my questions for posterity sake

fratermathy:
I never said Igbo kingship is taken from Edo. I said "modelled after". If you are a good researcher as you pride yourself to be, you should know the semantic import of words matter alot! Even on the premise that you have established, Igbos do not, by culture, have kingship systems. So how did it find its way into modern igbo society? why are kings revered like deities and adorned with royal paraphernalia? Where else could it be copied from? The Ibibios have no kingship as at that neither did Arochukwu as some have claimed. What obtained in Arochukwu was royal priesthood.

Igbos are not republican in traditional systems of leadership! Granted, they may be a few exceptions but do not generalise! Watch Igbo movies, read Igbo novels, visit Igboland, hereditary kingship is a norm! The "Igwe" factor is enmeshed in the people's psyche so I wonder where your statement comes from. Secondly, a bad research report would be tackled by sane people in the right manner! If it is bad, fish out the issue and counter the data with yours! I am very careful when choosing words, you should learn from that.


I never said Delta is my tribe. I said I am from Delta! Maybe you have a problem with understanding scribbles. That's your issue, not mine.



Distance is no barrier in cultural adaptation. Lagos is far from Benin yet the monarchical system of Lagos was started by a Benin Oba. Oba Ewuare's reach extended into Benin Republic. So Nsukka is but a stonethrow. The Oba even visited the home of Ubiesha Atakpo in 11 Egbo Street, Kokori in less than a day! Pre-colonial people had their ways. Igbos and Benin people traded together. The Igbo people bought imported wares from the Benin people, Igbo land was used to access Ibibio land by the Benins and so on.

No "goofing" has occurred! What occurred is a misconception of message and intent and the use of uncouth careless statements to address them.

Ok let's agree to disagree

Tell us how Igbo kingship is similar to that of Benin

Just give me two aspects


Before we talk I am Igbo well grounded

Where are you from ? I mean your tribe

fratermathy:
"Nonsense".


I repeat, there is no relationship between the age of an ethnic group or even its monuments and the possibility of cultural hegemony, adulteration and otherwise by a neighbouring group.! This is exactly the reason why Itsekiris no longer speak Yoruba and Ika's Igbo is diluted amidst other instances. Apart from linguistic factors, cultural superimposition takes place especially when trade and marriage are concerned.

You missed it..ika Igbo isnt diluted they speak a dialect of Igbo which is akin to Owerri but with heavy borrowing from Benin due to proximity


Have you ever read about Owerri migration

The same way ukwuani speak the same dialect with uguta in IMO state

Oga your not an authority here

ezeagu:
That's what I said.



The Kalabari and the Riverine Ibibio know as Efik also dealt with them, but Benin was of chief importance to all Europeans on the 'slave coast', hence the naming the Bight of Benin. To the Edo red was a very significant and royal colour.

Benin never had access to coast nor any sea faring vessel and they are not known to be traders but carvers

So what are you saying here ?

ezeagu:
There was no such thing as eze in Imo or Abia state before 1920 apart from Arochukwu. The other parts you mentioned have Edo and Igala influence, the so called southern axis have 'nativised' their warrant chiefs and used the Edo system of governance with a king and council of elders. I just used the dressing as well as the importing of the 'excess' use of coral beads by their "lolo" to give an example of how the Edo influenced these petty pseudo-monarchies. The pattern was Edo > Anioma > Onitsha > then through a general Igbo culture all of that was mixed up and adopted by the Imo and Abia hamlets.

Lies what of central Igbo region like okigwe axis do they have igala influence and edo also?


Find another tale

Ihuomadinihu:
Through the sea or Trans Saharan trade. The beads found in Igboukwu was also found in Mali.

If it is sea then you missed it because Benin in ure never had vessels and they are not water fronts

If it is through Sahara then they must have copied it from northern igbo which is near to sahel region like nsuka

So give me another gistv

Ihuomadinihu:
You spewed nonesense and you don't want to believe it's nonesense. What did Igbos adapt from Edos other than ''colonial tales'' of how edo brought kingship?

He does not have the capacity to answer that

He is on hear say

We still have carbon dating evidence around you know

fratermathy:
I am ready to do this all year round.

Go back and check the dating of NRI and Igbo ukwu artefacts

Compare them with Benin


That is when I can take you serious but as of what you post

I consider it a muse or even a fable

ezeagu:
The fact that they're mainly found in the Mediterranean makes me think they came through Benin via Portuguese.

.and in your geography you think it's only the Benin that deal with Mediterranean and beside that Benin isn't a littoral state and it is landlocked


I am thinking of Igbo speaking opobo or even ijaw ...Benin was never known as merchants or sea fearing people


Now find another gist

Ihuomadinihu:
Wrong! Nri has everything to do with Igbos,it is part and parcel of Igbo history. Same way you can't discuss Edo without mentioning Erode walls. What did Igbos adapt from Benin?? Don't tell me that bead and wrapper nonesense.

Lol

Take on him intellectually


I trust you

fratermathy:
Nri Pyramids and all about old Igbo culture has NOTHING to do with the cultural and political hegemony of some Igbo clans by Edo. This is a proven sociological theory. In most cases, it occurs as acculturation when an ethnic group with a stronger hegemonic influence is close to other groups. If acculturation doesn't occur, some adaptations are made. Edos adapted to their neighbours, mostly the Yoruba as Igbos also adapted to the Ibibios and the Edos. This has nothing to do with the age of Nri or its pyramids.

So why must you use the term that Igbo kingship is taken from edo ..what a travesty ?/

Igbo is Republican even till date and their leadership is by consensus
While edo is monarchy and their leadership is by hereditary so why do you offend people sensibilities by posting badly research report


You have also given me how confused you are by saying delta is your tribe


If you tell me that there are cultural exchange between western Igbo and edo I can understand not all Igbo


Do you even know the distance between nsuka and Benin or ngwa and Benin


They never had contacts

Igbo women don't dress like edo


Pls accept these basic facts and corrections and know that you have been found wanting

Also have you checked the carbon dating of Igbo ukwu or nri artefact and also check if they have the same artistic style with your phantom edo


Dude you don goof here


Just accept it