₦airaland Forum

fratermathy:
"Rubbish".


Igbos being technocratic and handy has no bearing in Edo's cultural hegemony. You keep bringing up points to prove my initial premise. The fact that Igbos were "borrowed" by the Edos to do their beads and artifacts even give more credence to the idea that there Masons, carpenters and craftsmen took home what they have learned about Edo culture. This is a hypothesis. I'd write a scholarly article on this theory. Thanks for the pointers. This argument has been purposeful so far even though it was started on a faulty counter-premise.

Ihuomadinihu:
If someone starts up something that looks like yours,does it mean he copied you? Infact Edo artifacts were made by Igbos. It's a know fact that Igbos were hired by Edo to make artifacts for them. Quit spewing rubbish.

fratermathy:
Answer to question? Yes, Nri kingdom is archaeologically older than Edo kingdom. This has no bearing in Edo's far more vast and outriching cultural hegemony on Nri land especially those borderline lands. In fact, this hegemony is so strong that some Igbo groups such as Ikwerre, Ndokwa and Ika claim to be Benin people.

fratermathy:
Answer to question? Yes, Nri kingdom is archaeologically older than Edo kingdom. This has no bearing in Edo's far more vast and outriching cultural hegemony on Nri land especially those borderline lands. In fact, this hegemony is so strong that some Igbo groups such as Ikwerre, Ndokwa and Ika claim to be Benin people.

PreciousBro:
These four igbo towns you mentioned are situated in the western and northern axis of igboland,a point i have tried to sync into ezeagu's grasp as testament to the strength of whatever influence or borrowed stuff you all are talking about.it has zero impact on the southern igbos. ooh well
...i don taya jare

aim5:
Nope. The Isidahomen story may or may not be true but some people from Sao Tome and Principe have Edo words in their Creolized lingua due to the fact that the Portuguese and Edo traded with each other.

aim5:
Some even say that Dahomey was named after the Esan general Isidahomen.. also quite a few Sao Tome people speak a Creolized form of Edo. These people so insecure they can't admit that Benin Kingdom spread through some parts of West Africa.

fratermathy:
I've told you before and I reiterate again, THE AGE OF A CULTURAL ENTITY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ITS POTENTIALITY OF BEING AN HEGEMONIC INFLUENCE OR BEING HEGEMONICALLY INFLUENCED! If you cant understand this simple concept then it doesn't surprise me why you cant understand all that I have been hampering.

fratermathy:
I never said Igbo kingship is taken from Edo. I said "modelled after". If you are a good researcher as you pride yourself to be, you should know the semantic import of words matter alot! Even on the premise that you have established, Igbos do not, by culture, have kingship systems. So how did it find its way into modern igbo society? why are kings revered like deities and adorned with royal paraphernalia? Where else could it be copied from? The Ibibios have no kingship as at that neither did Arochukwu as some have claimed. What obtained in Arochukwu was royal priesthood.

Igbos are not republican in traditional systems of leadership! Granted, they may be a few exceptions but do not generalise! Watch Igbo movies, read Igbo novels, visit Igboland, hereditary kingship is a norm! The "Igwe" factor is enmeshed in the people's psyche so I wonder where your statement comes from. Secondly, a bad research report would be tackled by sane people in the right manner! If it is bad, fish out the issue and counter the data with yours! I am very careful when choosing words, you should learn from that.


I never said Delta is my tribe. I said I am from Delta! Maybe you have a problem with understanding scribbles. That's your issue, not mine.



Distance is no barrier in cultural adaptation. Lagos is far from Benin yet the monarchical system of Lagos was started by a Benin Oba. Oba Ewuare's reach extended into Benin Republic. So Nsukka is but a stonethrow. The Oba even visited the home of Ubiesha Atakpo in 11 Egbo Street, Kokori in less than a day! Pre-colonial people had their ways. Igbos and Benin people traded together. The Igbo people bought imported wares from the Benin people, Igbo land was used to access Ibibio land by the Benins and so on.

No "goofing" has occurred! What occurred is a misconception of message and intent and the use of uncouth careless statements to address them.

fratermathy:
"Nonsense".


I repeat, there is no relationship between the age of an ethnic group or even its monuments and the possibility of cultural hegemony, adulteration and otherwise by a neighbouring group.! This is exactly the reason why Itsekiris no longer speak Yoruba and Ika's Igbo is diluted amidst other instances. Apart from linguistic factors, cultural superimposition takes place especially when trade and marriage are concerned.

ezeagu:
That's what I said.



The Kalabari and the Riverine Ibibio know as Efik also dealt with them, but Benin was of chief importance to all Europeans on the 'slave coast', hence the naming the Bight of Benin. To the Edo red was a very significant and royal colour.

ezeagu:
There was no such thing as eze in Imo or Abia state before 1920 apart from Arochukwu. The other parts you mentioned have Edo and Igala influence, the so called southern axis have 'nativised' their warrant chiefs and used the Edo system of governance with a king and council of elders. I just used the dressing as well as the importing of the 'excess' use of coral beads by their "lolo" to give an example of how the Edo influenced these petty pseudo-monarchies. The pattern was Edo > Anioma > Onitsha > then through a general Igbo culture all of that was mixed up and adopted by the Imo and Abia hamlets.

Ihuomadinihu:
Through the sea or Trans Saharan trade. The beads found in Igboukwu was also found in Mali.

Ihuomadinihu:
You spewed nonesense and you don't want to believe it's nonesense. What did Igbos adapt from Edos other than ''colonial tales'' of how edo brought kingship?

fratermathy:
I am ready to do this all year round.

ezeagu:
The fact that they're mainly found in the Mediterranean makes me think they came through Benin via Portuguese.

Ihuomadinihu:
Wrong! Nri has everything to do with Igbos,it is part and parcel of Igbo history. Same way you can't discuss Edo without mentioning Erode walls. What did Igbos adapt from Benin?? Don't tell me that bead and wrapper nonesense.

fratermathy:
Nri Pyramids and all about old Igbo culture has NOTHING to do with the cultural and political hegemony of some Igbo clans by Edo. This is a proven sociological theory. In most cases, it occurs as acculturation when an ethnic group with a stronger hegemonic influence is close to other groups. If acculturation doesn't occur, some adaptations are made. Edos adapted to their neighbours, mostly the Yoruba as Igbos also adapted to the Ibibios and the Edos. This has nothing to do with the age of Nri or its pyramids.

Ihuomadinihu:
Secondly, no Igbo group is modelled after the Edo nation. What we have are regional kingships and royalty which do not cover the entire igboland. That being said,igbo people are not subject to any King. Even saying that Edo planted all pre colonial igbo kings is an overexaggeration. We have to understand that both Igbo, Yoruba and Edo were one people some 2,000yrs ago, the concept of kingship is not entirely alien to Igbos but the way they are set up,they would rather be kings unto themselves. Other than that, Edo kingdom at its prime set up benin frontiers and vassals in Igboland.
The other modern igbo kings are colonial imports.

Ihuomadinihu:
Secondly, no Igbo group is modelled after the Edo nation. What we have are regional kingships and royalty which do not cover the entire igboland. That being said,igbo people are not subject to any King. Even saying that Edo planted all pre colonial igbo kings is an overexaggeration. We have to understand that both Igbo, Yoruba and Edo were one people some 2,000yrs ago, the concept of kingship is not entirely alien to Igbos but the way they are set up,they would rather be kings unto themselves. Other than that, Edo kingdom at its prime set up benin frontiers and vassals in Igboland.
The other modern igbo kings are colonial imports.

fratermathy:
Au contraire, I am not disgracing myself because you are the one who seem not to harness the semantic import of my statements.
I never said Ikwerres are Igbos or not. I said Ikwerre is an Igboid group whose "Igboness" is contested by its people and the larger Igbo nation. They are more like the Isoko who proclaim themselves different from Urhobo whereas some perceive them to be the same. I have not made a personal statement on the matter so telling me that I am disgracing myself is a careless statement.

rexbuton:
I have answered these in the new thread.. move on

AndreUweh:
Upon all your years in Owerri (FUTO), you never knew that Ibo is incorrect. What a shame to some Igbo recent graduates.

fratermathy:
I am not Edo. I am from Delta State. I am not a supremacist! I have no ties with Edo in any way, I am even more in tandem with Igbo than Edo. I believe that Edo has an overarching influence in the tribes of the South and East, especially Anambra, Imo, Delta Igbo and Ikwerre. I wrote disputed in Ikwerre because I am aware that almost all Ikwerre people "claim" not to be Igbos.

fratermathy:
That is why I wrote disputed in brackets. Ikwerres are Igboid but not necessarily Igbos.

Armaggedon:
well when i saw the write up i wanted to ask 'are you Edo'? But i refused for fear of being accused of 'attacking the person' instead of the argument.
I knew you were a benin supremacist when you said ikwerre is disputed as an igbo tribe. Yes There is the dispute but it is only political. Hence you hear such in political discourse.
cultural piece that is
well researched do not come to that conclusion. Only an edo supremacist who wants to prey on some fictitious claim of benin origin (for political reason) by few ikwerre pple will write that.

As for your claim of igbo system being modelled after benin, it simply shows the extent ethnicity is engraved into the psyche of an average Nigerian.

Okudiover:
I bin think say Na Biafra man from the Land of the rising sun but you can imagine my dissapointment ....... Sorry delight when it turned out to be a YO-ROBBER man from the land wen their sun don set finish.

fratermathy:
I agree with you on this. My statement that Igbo women dress like Edo women was in comparative terms being that Edo was presented first in order of succession. Secondly, the concept of "beading" which is used by "some" Igbo women is akin to that of Benin Kingdom. That is the major similarity in the women's dressing.

porrigeyam:
APC stop this nonsense and get working, enough of this childish blame game.

fratermathy:
You've indirectly proven my statement by saying "Akin is different from copying". I am a scholar in History and have made far and wide research on Nri Kingdom, Nsibidi, Igodomigo, the Ogisos, and general Igboid cultures. There is no Igbo land now without a form or another of Monarchy. Theocracy, Gerontocracy and Plutocracy have since been replaced by Monarchy. One of the reasons for this is colonisation and its system of indirect rule and the second is the overarching influence of the Benin kingdom indirectly. In trying to start most monarchies as mandated by colonial powers, many Igboid ethnic groups modelled their systems after that which was closest to them. All were proto-edoid in nature.