₦airaland Forum

@davidylan

The same UN that used anglo-german agreements to decide ownership of a parcel of land between Nigeria and Cameroun?

You may not agree with their decision but thats what the UN was created for, to help resolve conflicts between nations.

If you also do a little research rather than adopt islamic reasoning

Its called free thinking as opposed to biblical reasoning

And who should remind the state sponsored terrorists about the consequences of wanton destruction of isreali lives and property?

There's no Hamas state, but there is a state of Israel like I said before.

So because terrorists don't sign a charter we should ignore them when they send rockets with ball bearings to kindergarten schools in Isreal? Again a symptom of islamic reverse thinking.

I never said it should be ignored, I however said you can hold Israel tothe charter it signed.

What of Ivory coast that has a prime minister? Is it also a coountry in a union? Common sense!

This beggars belief. If you had followed middle eastern politics like you claim you do, you would have found out America is sponsoring a two state solution to the conflict. How do I explain this?

The Americans gassed the kurds, engaged Iran in an 8 yr war of attrition and invaded Kuwait too?

This response is an answer to which question? My friend you've lost me.

And those party members (terrorists) in jail were simply locked up for being hezbollah members?

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

@davidylan

However it is clear that the ruling was based on pre-independence agreements between German and English colonial powers and NOT pacts signed between Nigeria and Cameroun in 1970 as you and Tornadoz erroneously and arrogantly claim!

I think you need to read post before hitting your keyboard. The above statement attributed to me is a mystery to me. Can you remind me of my Cameroonian statement? I was leaving the Cameroonian question for another day.
See me see trouble. Lol!

@TayoD

It's funny how you summarily dismiss the evidence provided by archeology and you choose to go by way of selective amnesia in arriving at your conclusions.

I provided proof why I thought the archeological evidence was flawed.

I am sure the world of archeology will be alarmed by the conspiracy theory you have stated with regard to the motive of those who make these finds.

What conspiracy theory, did you actually read my piece?
I quoted Steven Ortiz (director of the Center for Archaeological Research at New Orleans) an eminent American Archaeologist.
He said the archaeologist was a Jordanian (he is British and his name is Shimon Gibson.) I disagreed and even gave him a link. Please read my response.

You know, one major reason behind this conflict is just the faith of these Arabs. These folks cannot be separated from their faith and it is their faith that is making them do what they do

Surprised you said that because I notice a lot of Christian undertones in your response, you quoted extensively from the bible.

@davidylan

And why have your palestinian brothers not offered proof to counter those of the jews? Where are the palestinian archeologists to show us with PROOF that they and not the Jews are historical owners of the land?

Even with all these supposedly archaeological proof the UN still passed resolutions after resolutions affirming the land belongs to the Palestinians. The entire UN is wrong because ”it was rigged” is it.

1. To claim that the land of Isreal is the land of Palestinian forefathers is outright lying! Where are the archeological proofs? Can the Palestinians point to graves 2000 years old as the Jews have consistently been doing?
2. How many Jews are allowed to roam free in Syria, Palestine, Lebanon, Quatar, Yemen e.t.c.? If the Jews were foolish enough to allow the palestinians to roam free, how many jews would be left alive?
3. There are Palestinians of Jewish citizenship working and living free in Isreal! According to the Israeli Central Bureau of Statistics (2006), Arabs make up 19.8% of the Isreali population! Can we say the same of Palestine?
4. Palestinian historians need look no further than the lands they presently occupy and claim as their own. Let them prove that those lands belong to them first before they start looking at others!

They would not roam free in Israel if they had a country of their own.
A little research will tell you how the Jewish state was created after the second world war. Considering what they went through in Europe, a state was created.
Jews in Diaspora returned to what we now know as Israel even as recently as the 80s Soviet Jews etc were still migrating to Israel. Brings me to the question, what claim have these Soviet, European and American Jews to those lands.

This does not make sense! Since Isreal has a conventional army and is a has signed the UN charter does not shackle it from defending her territory and citizens who have been under constant attack from the demons of islam!
You claim Hamas and Hezbollah are guerilla armies and yet they have modern weapons of warfare that would be enough to destroy at least 3 African states!

It should not shackle it from defending her territory, but when it uses the same tactics as the terrorist (state terrorism) by state sponsored execution, wanton destruction of properties etc then the UN have to remind Israel of its charter.

Ismail Haniyah is the Prime Minister of Palestine and yet you erroneously claim palestine is not a state! Is England a state? Haniyah is the Hamas leader and yet you still claim Hamas is NOT a state army?
Mahmoud Abbas is the President of the Palestinian National Authority, this is as good as being the president of Nigeria! He is the leader of Fatah, another known terrorist organisation whose goal is the annihilation of the Jewish race!

England is a country. It is a country in a union >United Kingdom
There is no state of Palestine hence America is trying “The Roadmap to peace” with a two state solution. Abiola declared himself president of Nigeria, but he was not really the president. To get to Palestine you have to go through Israeli border guards.

i'm sure unbiased records prove the Sunnis and Shias did most of the killings themselves!

They were not killing themselves before the Americans arrived

What about Hezbollah? Are they also fighting for independence from Isreal?

No they are not, but they have many of their party members in jail in Israel

What of al-queada?

Yeah what of al-queada? Where did it come into this equation

@Afam
Good morning o'l boy. How you dey self.
Am of to work now, be back later in the evening.

@davidylan

One can say the same for your big brothers Iran and other Arab countries! They spurn UN resolutions whenever they can and then use the same resolutions to blackmail Isreal!

Is Iran a member of the Security council ?Are you saying Iran has such leverages at the UN to spin resolutions. Haba.

Archeology and history have NOTHING to do with politics!

I hope it didn't, but sadly it does. It is laughable to expect Jewish archaeologist and historians to say we were wrong all along, the land belongs to you Palestinians. History is always written by the conquerer and not the conquered.

The jews are busy finding artefacts and documents that CONFIRM their long history on the land of Isreal, no one is begrudging the Palestinians from doing the same to prove that they deserve to be on the land instead of the jews.

If only they were allowed to roam free on the land of their forefathers rather than having to carry identity cards to move from point A to point B. Do you honestly think the Israeli govt will grant "visa's and passes" to Palestinian historians looking for evidence that prove they hold a valid claim to that land?

Besides a Jordanian archeologist recently discovered a cave that proves John the Baptist did baptise at river Jordan.

He's not quite a Jordanian. Check this out http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200408/s1178088.htm.
He is a British archaeologist named Shimon ( Shimon sounds Jewish to me)Gibson.
Also check out what Steven Ortiz (director of the Center for Archaeological Research at New Orleans) an eminent Archaeologist said at the time of this discovery. He on the other hand believes Byzantine Christians began associating the site with John the Baptist due to its proximity to his hometown. John was born in Ein Kerem only two and a half miles away.

I expect you have more reasoning than to spout this kind of mischief! So launching rockets at defenceless Jewish children is acceptable so long as it is done by guerrilla armies but unacceptable for Isreal to fight back because it is a state?

No where did I imply it was acceptable. However I did say Israel is a state and a member of the United Nations, and must have signed the United Nations charter and it has an obligation under that charter.

Hezbollah was formed by members of the Iranian revolutionary guard, is actively armed and funded by Syria and Iran and yet you claim it is a guerilla army?

Since it is not a regular army then it must be a guerilla army.
This is wikipedia's entry "a method of unconventional combat by which small groups of combatants attempt to use mobile and surprise tactics (ambushes, raids, etc) to defeat a foe, often a larger, less mobile, army."

The president of Palestine is a Hamas bigwig and yet you claim it is merely a guerilla army?

Palestine is not a state so can't have a president. If you mean president of Palestinian Authority then you are wrong again because he is not a member of Hamas. Palestinian Authority president is Mahmoud Abbas, and he leads the Fatah movement i think you probably meant Ismail Haniya , the Hamas leader.
Lest we forget, Israel's first and longest-serving Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion was himself a terrorist according to British records of the time.

It took just 9 men to destroy the two tallest buildings in the world, killing over 3000 people in the process in the world's most powerful nation!

Well it's taken the pen of another man (George Bush) to kill half a million.

You and I know this is the most decietful argument of all! Here is an excerpt from "the covenant of Hamas":'Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will
obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.'

They are fundamentalist Moslem's no surprise there. If Israel was not a state and was fighting for independence you'll have fundamentalist Jews.

This is irrelevant! Did you for once think Shagari was trying to develop nuclear weapons to bomb South Africa? Kai! Common sense!

He muted the idea of building a nuclear plant. It was the reaction of the SA govt that I referenced, I never said we were going to bomb SA.

The Soviets withdrew their troops from Afghanistan in 1989!

And!

@Davidylan

UN resolutions are just about worth the paper they are written on.

Depends where you stand with the UN e.g America would deride the UN unless it needs UN, to rubber stamp its actions.

historical and archeological evidence however points to the FACT that those lands RIGHTFULLY belong to the Jews!

Who are these historians? Are they Jews or Americans. Were Arabs amongst these highly respected historians?

Pray what do suicide bombers, Hamas, Hezbollah use againts innocent Jewish children in kindergarten schools? rubber bullets and water bombs?

Last time I checked Hamas and Hezbollah are guerilla armies. Israel on the other hand is a state.

What of Isreali infrastructure damaged by suicide bombers and hezbollah rockets?

This is what am saying, suicide bombers are hardly an army.

you and i know that if the superior weapons were with the enemy Isreal would long have ceased to exist! All this round about dribbling is taking us no were!

If Israel allow for a Palestinian state, their would hardly be a major problem with its neighbours.

By funding terrorism you mean? Why is Iran funding the intifada and yet leave the funding of the Palestinian economy to Isreal and the US?

Israel funding the Palestinian economy? That is very wrong. Here is the statistics of Palestinian funding
Total Disbursed % of Total
EC 25%
United States 17%
Sweden 8%
Saudi Arabia 7%
United Kingdom 5%
Germany 4%
Norway 4%
World Bank Group 2%
France 2%
Algeria 2%
Islamic Development Bank 2%
United Nations (various) 1%
Other 20%

Lets stop all these bold faced deciet! How many African nations were funding terrorist activities in South Africa during apartheid?

Zambia and the neighbouring African states was the haven for all the freedom fighters. Are you saying you never heard of car bombs in South Africa in the 80s? When Shagari said Nigeria was thinking of building a Nuclear plant, did you forget the response of South Africa?

Was America running the show in Quwait?

Yes they were.

Well before the US-Afghan war, were where the Arab nations when the Taleban took Afghanistan to the brink of collapse?

Actually it was the Soviet Union that took them to the brink of collapse, while America was funding the Taliban. How ironic.

@Mariory

You have no clue of the complexities of the armed conflicts that go on in said region. Put simply, it appears you have no clue.

Er, I thought you would provide your expertise on these matters.
Seriously if I wanted to hear from somebody with your IQ, I'd be at my local kindergarten.

@davidylan

Your first statement

How do you "grant independence" to palestine when you are not occupying their land?

Countless UN resolutions including the International Court of Justice ruled that the West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem are occupied. Check UN resolution 446, Resolution 465 and Resolution 484, among others.

It is not difficult to note those arguing on the side of sentiments rather than reality It is not difficult to note those arguing on the side of sentiments rather than reality. Is Isreal occupying Palestine? Virtually all areas of the land of Isreal today are historically noted to belong to the Jews

After reading the above UN resolutions, come back and tell me what sentiments swayed me. I think you are the one being sentimental.

It is easy to hypocritically accuse Isreal of going to war on "flimsy" excuses afterall palestinians only hurl stones at Jewish soldiers.

Using live ammunition against protesters is like killing an ant with a sledgehammer.

To bring up the Lebanon crisis and blame it on Isreal is to play the ostrich. Can you honestly accuse Isreal of being the aggressor in that war?

I never said Israel was the aggressor in that war, I did however imply that Israel saw an opportunity to destroy the Lebanese infrastructure.
By the way watching Israel bombing Lebanon was like watching Mike Tyson punching a 5yr old round after round.

In what way is the Iranian president standing up to Israel?

By funding the Palestinian intifada.

BECAUSE of a hidden islamic agenda to wipe out the Jewish race to prepare the way for the coming of the 12th imam?

I thought sentiments was out of the question.

What is so special about Palestine that ALL Arab nations are struggling to shoulder the question?

Surely you know the answer to this, anyway same reason South Africa was special to African nations in the 80s.

Why are the arab nations not interested in a disintegrating Iraq?

Because America is running the show there.

Where are these Arab nations when Afghanistan is degenerating into anarchy?

Same reason as my answer above.

@awoof

t pains me the country does not have one of these high paying natural resources to call off their economic strangulation bluff

I could not have put the above quote more eloquently. If Zimbabwe had oil, the situation would have been different.

@pmdaboh

I am sure you said your piece in good faith, i applaud you.
We have nothing to gain from our president meeting your president.
America only helps when its in her national interest (nothing wrong with that)
America only gives aid with strings attached (something wrong with this)
If we allow America too much say in our internal affairs, Moslem's and Christians will be at war( America will supply the weapons)

Now that you have helped define terrorism, can we now hear your opinion on the above topic?

How about them working 8 hours and receiving the same (100%) salary. They are overworked at the moment.

Until Mugabe told White people to share their land, every one kept quiet about Zimbabwe.
They forget Mugabe promised his people in the eighties that they will get back the land stolen from them by the white occupiers. The west wants to strangulate Zimbabwe by refusing it, imports and exports but not African leaders.
We know better now not to kowtow with the white masters.

@chidichris

Before Afam replies in his unique way I just wanted to correct you on some points you made. You said

i ask you again mr peace negotiator, you mentioned here that isreal does not want peace, then tell us what they want and then tell us who in the middle east that wants peace- the iran president?

If Israel wants peace, the least it can do is grant independence to the Palestinians. Would you be happy if Nigeria was being occupied by Cameroon? Iran as far as i know have never invaded any country. Israel on the other hand goes to war on the flimsiest of excuse. Did you witness what they did to Lebanon last summer?
I hold no brief for the Iranian president but he's the only one standing up to Israel. The other Arab nations are cowards, Libya for decades shouldered the Palestinian question on its own.

@Somze,

Am a leftist
You said Afam was a leftist. I think I am too, I'll tell you why.
(1)I refuse to accept Israel's reasons for holding on to other people's lands
(2)I condemned the invasion of Iraq
(3)I supported (In the eighties) the release of Nelson Mandela (I was involved in many protest at South Africa Embassy)
The above list is by no means exhaustive, because i would fight for any oppressed person in Nigeria or overseas.
I will sleep well tonight knowing am a leftist who supports oppressed people.

@Zion Bush's supporter

To see a Nigerian support this man and his cohorts in Israel breaks my heart.
Even American conservatives are beginning to see this man for what he really is. His reign will be remembered by its expensive and misguided foreign policy and nonexistent progress at home.
Check this out
" Of 415 historians who expressed a view of President Bush’s administration to this point as a success or failure, 338 classified it as a failure and 77 as a success. " Courtesy of history news network. http://hnn.us/articles/5019.html The 415 historians are Americans not Nigerians.

President George W. Bush has been named the worst president in the last 61 years by American voters -- with nearly twice the negative rating of Richard Nixon.
Americans are waking up to the fact that this man is a lunatic, his last remaining support will probably come from fundamentalist Christians in Nigeria.
We are the outsiders who weeps more than the bereaved.

@Mariory

Mariory:
It took what, all of 7 posts for this thread to be shown for the trash that it is. Enough said.

Wise decision, I think the topic may be out of your depth (clever boy). Try "My wife won't suck my privates" thread.

It is stupid and utter bigotry when Christians support America on its war against the Muslims. People allow their emotions to cloud their judgment.

@TayoD

I believe what Afam means by "free thinker" is not swallowing what the media wants you to swallow. You can be influenced by parents brothers colleges bible etc, but you don't swallow all hook line and sinker.
This is wikipedia on free thinking Freethought is a philosophical viewpoint that holds that beliefs should be formed on the basis of science and logical principles and not be comprised by authority, tradition, or any other dogma2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freethought


@Pro-Israeli apologist

You are Anti-Jewish if you have a different opinion, but you will never hear anybody being accused of being
anti-Muslim. Is this not because the Jews control the American media.
In the eighties the issue of the day was apartheid South Africa. These are the same (right wing)elements who glorified South Africa then.
Have we all forgotten the economic and military co-operation between Israel and South Africa?
Israel and South Africa were the axis of evil to many people in the eighties.
SA ended it apartheid rule, Israel will also end its occupation of Arab lands.
People did not support S Africa's apartheid policy because it was morally wrong, same reason I won't support Israel, even though am a Christian. It will be double standard if I do.
Are we just happy that we have found a common enemy in Islam? This situation can reverse tomorrow, Blacks are the traditional underdogs hence we should not jump for joy because it's not us in the firing line now.
Attack the article with facts.
The said article was written by "Gideon Levy". Does the name sound Jewish?

@Afam
It really gets to me when clueless people make unfounded assumptions.

@noblezone
@angel101
@somze
I could not have put it better.
Seun always repeat the statement that

"Don't be gullible; these people are not acting on behalf of "youths",
they are common criminals exploiting the political situation for personal gain."

If the situation was not created by the govt in the first place, then there wouldn't have been a situation to exploit. As far as i can remember, there was no kidnappings when Sarowiwa was peacefully campaigning on behalf of ND. Violence begets violence. I don't agree with the tactics (but I understand) doing nothing is no longer an option.

@chidichris

please confirm to us that the best action u expected from bush after the sept 11 was to keep quite and started negotiation with the so called terrorists.

How many Iraqis were involved in september11?
Get your facts right

@CongoDr
Thanks for the links.

@my2cents
We don't have that long to wait as you think.
USA Today recently said China's breakneck development affects American wages, jobs, prices and industries, determining who wins and loses in the U.S. economy.
It is now China, along with Japan, that is buying the U.S. treasury securities that enable the United States to run the largest fiscal deficit in history.

The United States, the world’s leading debtor nation, is now heavily dependent on Chinese capital to underwrite its fast-growing debt. If China ever decides to divert this capital surplus elsewhere, either to internal investment or to the development of oil, gas, and mineral resources elsewhere in the world, the U.S. economy will be in trouble.
enroll on a mandarin course the language of the future. Lol!

@Seun
Why shouldn't one fight if there is injustice? Now most Nigerians will agree that had the Ibo's won their freedom, they may well have been more developed than they are now.

Adcoline is right.
I am tired of the old excuse that the ND governors are corrupt hence the poverty. Apart from Yar'Adua which other gov can claim innocence? If you think the Niger Delta issue will go away, you have another think coming.

We should be looking to China since America's power is coming to an end. In 15yrs China would take over as the leading industrialized nation. Time to brush up on my Mandarin, the language of the future.

Who cares if Bushmeat meets our president. To hell with war monger Bush, he has enough problem of his own.

@Poster
I stopped reading when you said[b]"i am neither for or against it!"[/b]
Why blame Dr Phil?

@naijaking1
Because of the ignoramus in our midst.
This is the biggest bull I've heard all week, but since it makes some people happy, its all good.

@Topic
Word of warning, do not say this to an Historian, they will laugh at you.