₦airaland Forum

@ Janosky I will be back probably later in the day, or tomorrow, to erase your ignorance and the doctrinal manipulation you have been subjected by the watchtower society. Very busy now.

MaxInDHouse:
Run away you say!
You're very funny Walahi Talahi!

Perhaps you don't know the meaning of my username (Maximus) well it's the name of a Roman Soldier who will never retreat nor surrender!

I told you i'm not going to entertain arguments on this thread but if you're truly ready for the evidence pointing to Archangel Michael as the same person who came as Jesus, please start your own thread and i'll be there to TEACH you that Jesus is the same Archangel Michael!

I get you and I hope you have learnt one or two things that you might want to share with your elders at the Kingdom hall. My advise for you: study the scriptures independently so that you wont be trapped forever inside the watchtower false theological scripts.

Shalom and see you later.

MaxInDHouse:
I've told you from the beginning that this thread is not about arguments on whether JWs are right or wrong.
I am not ready to argue with you, those brothers of mine doing so are only trying to reason along with you.
I am Maximus and on this thread it's only those who wants to learn from JWs that i invited.
But if you want to argue on the issue regarding Jesus being archangel Michael, you can start your own thread and i'll be there to dig the scriptures for you not on this thread!

Dont try to run away as a trained JW. Provide reference for your claim that another person, spirit, angel, (aside Yeshua) share God's glory before the world began.

MaxInDHouse:
Michael was one of the Princes in heaven! Daniel 12:1

Perhaps you're confused if a prince is not glorified alongside his father!

Provide reference for your claim that another person, spirit, angel, (aside Yeshua) share God's glory before the world began.

MaxInDHouse:
The event John wrote about at Jude 9 occurred before Jesus came to the earth and it was after His earthly assignment that he was given a name higher than all others.

So get it straight, he was just like all other heavenly spirit sons of God (angels) before coming to the earth!

John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

So Jehovah witness' angel Michael share glory with God before the world began? Tell me more.

MaxInDHouse:
People's childhood name is only known by those who knew them from childhood! So Jesus' name before coming to the earth is not Jesus, that's the point!

You are talking as if we have 'childhood names' and 'adulthood names'. More than 99% of adult human retain their original names till death. So I seriously can’t get what you are trying to say.

And for the sake of argument, even if Yeshua (or Jesus in anglicised manner) is not his pre-incarnation name, he is surely not arch-angel Michael. See what Paul said about Yeshua in 1 Philippians 2:9;

For this reason, also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

The key word here is EVERY KNEE WILL BOW. If every knee shall bow to Yeshua (whether in his pre-incarnated or post-ascension state) why will he be struggling with the devil in Jude 9. And remember, Christ’s glory didn’t just start after his death and resurrection. It had been with him even before he came to the earth. John 17:1-5,

“Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

In summary, all scriptural evidences indicated that Jesus is not an angel (Hebrews 1-10), superior to angels, created angels and have power over principalities and power, the authority which arch-angel didn’t have in Jude 9.

Janosky:
The quote “The Lord rebuke you.” is actually "JEHOVAH rebuke you".

Wrong! The word ‘Jehovah’ is actually the corrupted word coined from the tetragrammaton YHWH, the supposed name of God he revealed to Moses in mount Sanai. The word tetragrammaton is a 4-consonant letter, without vowels in Jewish religious lexicon. The name is considered so holy that it was an anathema for mere mortals to pronounce it. The Jews don’t pronounce J (jay) when referencing YHWH but closer to Y (wai). YAHWEH is even more appropriate than JEHOVAH since the Jews don’t pronounce J (jay). No any Jew call God Jehovah.

Besides, there is nowhere the word (YHWH) appear in the new testament Greek scripture and for New World Translation putting Jehovah in Jude 9 is fraudulent. The writer or Jude never put the word Jehovah in that text.

Janosky:
That expression in Jude1:9 is a direct quote of Zechariah 3:2, when the angel of Jehovah had a dispute with Satan.
The Lord capitalized in the old testament is a reference to JEHOVAH, the Most High God. Jehovah, God's name, was substituted & replaced with 'the Lord' capitalized.
Jude 1:9 is a dispute between Archangel Michael and Satan just as Zechariah 3:2 is a dispute between the angel of Jehovah and Satan.

This is what Zechariah 3:2,

The LORD said to Satan, “The LORD rebuke you, Satan! The LORD, who has chosen Jerusalem, rebuke you! Is not this man a burning stick snatched from the fire?”

If you look into the text well, how many people are speaking here? Which Lord spoke to Satan and which Lord rebuked him?

Janosky:
Will Archangel Michael not defer to the Most High God @ Jude 1:9 & @ Zechariah 3:2 will the angel not defer to Jehovah?
Bros, the context of both verses in Jude & Zechariah is very luminous.
Bros, your own claim no dey there.

Jude 1:9 is also proven that the name JEHOVAH was substituted with Lord where the New Testament texts is a direct quote from the old testament.

Of course Michael couldn’t handle the devil hence has to invoke a higher authority. You are saying that Jesus has no final authority over principalities and power which is a lie. See what Paul said in Philipans 2: 9;

For this reason, also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on him the name which is above every name, so that as the name of Jesus, EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in Heaven and on the earth, and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory God the Father.”

Are you saying that the name of Yeshua is not capable of bringing the devil to order in Jude 9? Are you saying that God had exalted angel Michael and gave him a name above every name that at the mention of the name of angel Michael every knee shall bow? Why was angel Michael struggling with the devil when every principalities and power can bow in his name?

Try harder and get more confused by the watchtower.

MaxInDHouse:
Buhari is the President of Nigeria today, the whole world address him with the name he bear as the president elect, nobody remember the name he bear before he was elected.

The comparison you try to make is wrong. I have known Mohammadu Buhari for many many years and his name remains the same. The prefix ‘Presiident’ was added to his name to echo his current political power as the head of state. That nobody remembers his ‘real’ name before he becomes president shows you are either very very young or ignorant.

MaxInDHouse:
So Jesus' name before God transformed him into the womb of Mary is of no importance, now he has been elevated to a higher position.

Name is key in everything. Of course Yeshua (or Jesus his anglicized name) remains his name prior his earthly incarnation and after his heavenly ascension.

This is what God said about Yeshua:

Pslam 110:1 The Lord (YHWH) said unto my Lord (Yeshua), Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Apostle Paul also made reference to this statement in Hebrews 1:13 thus:

But to which of the angels said He at any time, “Sit on My right hand until I make Thine enemies Thy footstool”?

You are free to lie to defend the watchtowers lies. It is your fundamental human right. No angel (whether arch or nominal) has God almighty ever said he should sit at his right hand. You have been lied to and you cannot lie to me because I know.

MaxInDHouse:
But we know that before his coming to the earth he is the archangel Michael, so we're not telling you to believe that it's a secret in the midst of those who knew him better just like some that knew Buhari before he got to that position can tell you deep secrets about Buhari's childhood name!

Buhari’s childhood name is/was Muhammadu Buhari and will remain so until he officially do a name change in an approved court of law or a notary public. Stop lying out of ignorance or attempt to patronize the watchtower society.

MaxInDHouse:
Just as Sarah called Abraham "Lord"
Just as Joab and others called David "Lord"

Perhaps you don't know what the title means, it simply means one who has authority over the others, Jesus was given that authority for the job of redemption which he did well.

Otherwise he is just an angel like all other spirit sons of God serving under their Father and Creator in heaven!

You are right, but we also use Lord for God and Jesus in a religious sense and not on marital or family levels. The apostles called Jesus ''Lord and saviour'. Maybe angel Michael is also your Lord and savior being a JW.

haddeylium:
@Bolded. I agree with. It's possible for you to impersonate someone's else voice.
But God's word said that's not going to be the case in Jesus'

John 5:25(KJV)
25Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God and they that hear shall live.
It's Jesus own voice that will resurrect the dead sir.
And that voice is an Archangel's voice that he is.

You are a fast learner and I think we are getting somewhere. Now Lets look at the text again:

1 thessealnia 4:16. because the Lord himself (Jesus is Lord and not Michael) will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel's voice and with God's trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first.

Now let me analyse the sequence of event:

1) Jesus will descend from heaven with a commanding call.

2) An archangel (name not specified) will make make a loud shout

3) God's angels will blow the trumpets

4) The dead in christ will rise.

verse 17:. Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall always be with [the] Lord.

5) The people are living in christ will be caught up in the cloud to me the Lord (not archangel Michael) in the air.

6) So shall we always be with the Lord (not be with angel Michael).

The above are the sequence of events as described by the apostle Paul in 1 thessalonian 4:16-17.

haddeylium:
The trumpet is owned by God but blow by trumpeters . Just as Jesus, other angels do blow the trumpets of God.
Those trumpets are played by seven angels to announce God’s judgements, which doesn’t mean that those angels are God.(Rev

The bolded is true but Jesus is not to blow any trumpet but the angels. The angels are not God of course but I just want to tell you that 'the voice of an archangel' is not also Jesus' voice but that of an archangel. You new world translation also used the term 'an archangel'.

Be objective in your analysis bro!

haddeylium:
@Bolded. I agree with. It's possible for you to impersonate someone's else voice.
But God's word said that's not going to be the case in Jesus'

John 5:25(KJV)
25Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God and they that hear shall live.
It's Jesus own voice that will resurrect the dead sir.
And that voice is an Archangel's voice that he is.


The trumpet is owned by God but blow by trumpeters . Just as Jesus, other angels do blow the trumpets of God.
Those trumpets are played by seven angels to announce God’s judgements, which doesn’t mean that those angels are God.(Rev

Jude 1:9, But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, was disputing about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a blasphemous judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you.”

Who is that Lord that the archangel Michael invoked to rebuke the devil in Jude 1:9?

haddeylium:
Let me school you. Pick your Bible and stay open-minded

I have schooled your elders many times and they stopped visiting me when they became more confused in their confusion. You are a baby JW student.

haddeylium:
You don't even know how definite and indefinite articles work. Hold your English teacher responsible, not me. What level of hypocrisy! So, you've abandoned KJV and other versions translated by Trinitarian because they used 'with the voice of the archangel'. I love to see this. When an indefinite article is used, it does not specify a particular entity. (Which can be 1(one) or more than one). 'I have a cat' I / 'have an umbrella'.. Context!
You cannot argue that I have more than a cat nah .
The 'Archangel' only appears in singular never in plural sir to indicate there only exist just one leader of the Angels, The Archangel'

If I say the teacher was in my house that doesn't not mean we have only one teacher. If I say the driver will be here soon that means I am referring to a particular driver because we have many drivers. Usage and context is key in understanding a text. For the fact that I used a definite article 'THE' to identify an object doesn't not denote 'one and only'.

haddeylium:
Of course! There are hierarchy among angels. Michael has great authority in the spirit realm, for he is called “the great prince.” (Daniel 10:21; 12:1) These titles designate Michael as “the commander-in-chief” of all angelic forces. The Bible mentions only one other name of someone having authority over an army of angels JESUS!.” (2 Thessalonians 1:​7, . Michael is evidently a name given to Jesus before and after his life on earth

This is called the method of substitution you are employing. Now let me burst your bubble. lets go back to Jude 1:9;

But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”

Who is the Lord that archangel Michael called to rebuke the devil?

haddeylium:
Now, your voice has changed! It is now there must be reason for that . Then, why are we here. It's clear to you now that the usage of indefinite articles does not necessarily indicate plurality.
Michael is not called “one of the arch angels” but he is referred to as “THE arch angel”(Definite article 'THE'). There is only one arch angel in the bible, no one else is given that title.

Check my response above and the examples I gave you.

haddeylium:
I answered this also. Reading the Bible with that your doctrinal lens will only gives you this . You failed to answer my only question to you. I'll bring it back

My only question for you will on this same chapter.
This chapter is about Jesus and the Angels
Who are the Jesus Companions/peers that he was anointed above?

Paul was showing the superority of Jesus to ALL angels (Michael inclusive). Apostle Paul didnt make any distinction among the angels when he said Jesus was superiot to ALL the angels, inclusing archangel Micheal (Heb 1:5). You gymnastics at explaining away something so glaring is very deceitful.

haddeylium:
Are you not a clown?
You played the JWs card first in my reply to you and not you're scared to continue.
You're not make up for this

You are olodo! If the watchtower changes tomorrow you Will change with them. You are not telling me what you know but what you are told to tell me as a non-JW.

haddeylium:
In order to stress Jesus’ authority, the Bible says that he speaks with an archangel’s voice in ( 1 Thess 4:16 compare with ​—Joh 5:26-29). You can’t emphasize someone’s authority by comparing him with an inferior being, but having God’s trumpet is a privilege that does emphasize Jesus’ authority.

Does Jesus speak with an archangel's (not the article used is 'an' and not 'the' which means we have more than one archangel) or an archangel himself? You have to specify your position very clearly. I can speak in/with another person's voice without being same person. And as for your attempt at shifting goal-post by assuming that Jesus had God's trumpet, it is either you are theologically weak or lack personal skill to understand the text independently. I wont go into unnecessary cyclical argument. It is intellectually corrupt for you to attempt to make a convenient distinctions between 'the voice of an archangel' and 'the trumpet of God'. If Jesus came with the voice of an archangel he equally came with the trumpet of God. You cant eat your cake and have it.

haddeylium:
The mention of a symbolic trumpet l of God does not mean that God is a trumpet player .. Haba nah. it is the king’s trumpeters who play the king’s trumpets . Calm down and let's JWs teach you Bible truths

If the Trumpet of God is symbolic then the voice of an archangel is equally symbolic.

MaxInDHouse:
Whatever he believes that's different from what the Organization teaches now is WRONG that's why he is not the founder otherwise the Organization will have remained in whatever Russell believes.
That's enough for you to know that the light is getting brighter!

Sorry bro, Charles Taze Russel was the founder of Jw and Rutherford, who modified most of the JW teachings, was a student under Russel. You can deny as much as you want but your past publications will always expose you. We have them both in print and electronic copies. Modern apologetic JW teachings was the handiwork of Russel and will be hypocritical for you to push him under the bus because you don't align with what he taught as the Bible truth before he died.

MaxInDHouse:
John the baptist taught his disciples to fast like the Pharisees but Jesus said that is not necessary until something tragic befalls true believers. Isn't it clear that the light is getting brighter?
So answer your own question.

Was John ignorant when he taught his disciples to fast all the time or not?

John the Baptist was a Jew and followed the Jewish tradition of his forefathers. It was never wrong for him to ask his disciples to fast. The Pharisees are not bad people but religious zealots who believe that their brand of Judaism is the best even when they fall short. Fasting is a good thing and not only necessary when you are in trouble or affliction. If that's what you are told you have been lied to. You can provide scriptural evidence for your claim above.

haddeylium:
Which shout? God's word already told us that it's Jesus' own voice that will resurrect the dead (John 5:25). We're not expecting him to borrow any person's voice but his personal as foretold.

See your own New World Translation of 1 Thessalonian 4:16:

16. because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call (shout), with an archangel's voice and with God's trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first.

You should argue with your translators and scholars at watchtowers who said 'an archangel's voice' (not the archangel as we have more than one archangel). Is the New World Translation wrong?

You never tell me, is Jesus also the Trumpet of God according to the text? You can choose from the text what you want and ignore the rest.

haddeylium:
The word 'Archangel' meaning 'Leader of the Angels' appear just twice in the Bible. 'Archangel” only occurs in the singular in the Bible text.

Jude 1:9, Here Michael is called the The Archangel
NOTICE: singular, NOT plural Archangel. Only ONE! Archangel means “chief of the angels.”
It would not make sense for God to set up Jesus and Michael as rival commanders of the holy angels

Stop confusing yourselves. Even among the angels we have many 'departments'. We have angels who are responsible for war, death, blessings, praises and worship, etc and each of the angels have 'Leader of the Angels' who runs their different ministries. So Jude using a definite article for Michael and Paul using an indefinite arctle for the archangel in 1 thess 4:16 has a reason for that. You cant create a theology using an isolate Bible verse.

haddeylium:
If the designation “archangel” applied, not to Jesus Christ, but to some other angel, then the reference to “an archangel’s voice” would be inappropriate—for it would be describing a voice of lesser authority than that of the Son of God. Don't you think?
We believe Jesus is not an imposter, he's what the scripture said he is. His heavenly name as the 'Archangel' Chief of the Angels' is MICHAEL

Hebrew 1: 5 said Jesus is not an angel. You are free to argue till next year. You are serving the watchtower society.

haddeylium:
This Scripture brings out the Son's superiority to the angels, that Jesus is God's Son in a way that no other spirit is. And while these spirit creatures are swift angelic messengers, the Son has become King so that they are now subject to him. While we are it. My only question for you will on this same chapter. This chapter is about Jesus and the Angels. Who are the Jesus Companions/peers that he was annointed above?

Hebrew 1:5 confirms that the Son is superior to (and not) ALL the angels (Michael inclusive).

haddeylium:
If you're really going to be this down. I might stop replying you. What makes you think that your version of Christ identity in heaven is Right?
Jehovah's witnesses are not alone in this believe.
Seventh Day Adventist that are trinitarians believe this also
Many other trinitarians holds this believe
So, what's your church and their belief on this?

You should stop replying instead of talking nonsense by parroting the watchtower narrative.

Janosky:
Bros, is Jesus your God of the old testament?
Genesis 16:7-13, Jesus your God of the old testament is the angel who spoke to Hagar


As dictated by your Bible....
Hebrews 1:1-2a, Revelation 1:1, Jesus Christ is his Father's spokesman (Matthew 17:5"Listen to him (my Son", why won't he blow the trumpet of God,his Father

You wey claim (your response to Haddeylium) Archangel accompanied Jesus, where you see am in 1 Thess 4:16?

1 Thess 4:16, is Jesus the trumpet of God since he is the voice of an archangel? Make your response short.

Janosky:
https://www.gotquestions.org/Geneva-Bible.html

Is the Anglican Church doctrine the holy Scriptures ?
Is the Anglican Church the Government of England?

The Anglican Church NEVER at any time disclaimed anything in the Geneva Bible.


Your Trinity mentors agreed that Jesus is Archangel Michael (screenshot evidences).
Ask your Trinity brethren, KNOWMORE56.
He knows Jesus Christ is an angel


Hebrews 1:5, Job 38:7 Bros, Jesus is son of God, are angels sons of God?

John 8:38, Was Jesus present in Job 38:4-7 ?

Jesus- his Father's son.
Angels- his Father's sons.
Jesus & angels are Brothers , his peers in the spiritual realm.
Hebrews 1:9,Almighty Yahweh their God is peerless.

Bros, no DECEIVE yourself.

Charles Taze Rusell, the founder of your religion/organization agreed that:

1) Jesus is Divine

2) The Holy Spirit is a Person.

3) That celebration of birthday is not wrong

Was he ignorant then?

MaxInDHouse:
Well what Jesus said is straightforward Sir.

Any group of people experiencing what happened to Jesus is the group producing the same fruit Jesus produced.

They are the most peaceful and peaceloving group the world has ever known {Matthew 5:43-48} they're able to fish out few people in every tribe and nation they get {Matthew 7:13-14} and all those adhering to their teachings become like brothers and sisters globally {John 13:34-35, 17:21-23} vowing never to raise weapons against their fellowman! Micah 4:1-3 compare to Matthew 26:52

So i don't need anyone to tell me i can SEE for myself that this is the group Jesus was talking about when he said "by their FRUITS you will know them" Matthew 7:16-18

Jesus preached and taught people in his own country with the greatest miraculous works no one has witnessed before, but the day he was tested nobody remained with him, even his closest confidants (Apostles) all ran away.
But after his resurrection he managed to gather just 500 people out of thousands upon thousands who were flocking round him when he was performing miracles.
Ever since then his words has continued to prove true that we should expect what happened in Noah's day to repeat itself, you people will be busy with life anxieties while his true followers are gathering the few into the Ark! Luke 17:26-27

Please don't feel hurt with what you're hearing i wasn't born as one of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES but i love the TRUTH and i know majority hate it {John 3:19} so i kept searching until i discovered this group. So don't feel hurt, if you don't like it nobody will force it down your throat!

I am not hurt in any way. How am I hurt if you can explain? Not ok to make wrong assumptions.

Jehovah's witnesses never existed 200 years ago and have modified their teachings, and still do today (light getting brighter) to meet today's theological demand. How can you lay claim to absolute truth when your keep changing and modifying your teachings.

You said JWs are the most peace-looking group on earth, who conducted the survey and where did you get that information? That is self-delusion. And FYA, the JW have many pending court cases on child-molestation and breaking up of families, especially if some (or one) of the parties leave the organization. If your sister marry a man who is a J witness but the man decide to leave your organization for another Christian organization, what will be your advice to your sister?

MaxInDHouse:
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You're most welcome Sir!

The owner who commissioned the work we're doing uttered few statements that i'll implore you to meditate upon:



"And you will be hated by all people on account of my name. But the one who has endured to the end will be saved" Mark 13:13

"If the world hates you, you know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because you are no part of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, for this reason the world hates you" John 15:18-19

"I have given your word to them, but the world has hated them, because they are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world" John 17:14

I don't think the master of the job expected high turnout Sir, what he assured his workers is that "no matter how much the workers do in the work, only a few will find what they're saying to be true" Matthew 7:13-14

So thanks for the observation Sir, we are OK with the low turnout because the master has prepared our minds ahead of what you're now seeing! John 16:4, 33

May you have PEACE!

Jesus was addressing his disciples and not the Jehovah's witnesses. It was the prelude to the prophecy which Jesus gave them in Matthew 24 after which he gave them the great commission for global outreach in Matthew 28 and Act 1.

MaxInDHouse:
The topic is self explanatory!

"Study the Bible with Jehovah's Witnesses"

So if you think what we teach our members is wrong you only have two options:

First PRESENT a better performing group and then everyone can compare what they're teaching their members with that of JWs since they're better off in practicing Christianity.

This request/question is self-delusional. The watchtower organization is over 100 years but their global membership and acceptance is the lowest among religious zealots worldwide. This alone shows that:

1) Your beliefs/teachings do not resonate with the people.

2) Your method of 'recruiting' new JW members is ineffective.

3) People have come to realize you guys should not be taken seriously hence the stunt in growth of JWs worldwide.

Thank you.

Janosky:
Bros, Since 1599 ,your Trinity mentors says your claim is NOT true.
Have you read Daniel 10:13 & 12:1 in the Geneva Bible ©1599 ?
The Geneva Bible manuscript was used to produce the KJV DECEIVING you


Job 38:1-7
New International Version
The Lord (Jehovah God) Speaks
38 Then the Lord spoke to Job(A) out of the storm.(B) He said:

2 “Who is this that obscures my plans(C)
with words without knowledge?(D)
3 Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.(E)

4 “Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?(F)
Tell me, if you understand.(G)
5 Who marked off its dimensions?(H) Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line(I) across it?
6 On what were its footings set,(J)
or who laid its cornerstone(K)—
7 while the morning stars(L) sang together(M)
and all the angels[a](N) shouted for joy?(O)

Footnotes
Job 38:7 Hebrew the sons of God
Bros, Job 38:1-7, did God tell you angels are not his sons?
Your claim on Hebrews 1:5 falls short of scriptural scrutiny


Jesus used the trumpet of God doesn't make him God Almighty.

Exodus 8:19, Moses used the finger of God, does it mean he's God Almighty?

1 Thess 4:16 & John 5:28-29, Jesus voice raises the dead, he's the Archangel leading other angels, 2 Thess 1:7-9 & Matthew 25:31.

Using the screenshot of what you believed to be a traditional view of the person of Christ in 1599 doesn’t make sense and borne out of desperation and deceit. Aside from the fact that what you screenshot is currently against the teachings of the KJV translators (the ANGLICAN CHURCH), the standard you are attempting to create can be used against the watchtower as well. Let me give you some pieces of beliefs that JW hold as truth, as taught and propagated by
Charles Taze Russell the founder of watchtower track and bible society, which are now seen as false teachings:

1) That the holy spirit was a person
2) That Jesus was divine
3) That the celebration of Christmas is ok
4) That the world will end in 1914
5) That old biblical prophet will return to earth in 1935 (Berth Serim). Etc

Most of the teachings above have been jettisoned by JW as false as they claimed that the light has become brighter. The above are your beliefs that you no longer hold onto. I can as well use your old beliefs to validate my argument, the position which you tried to create on your 1599 Anglican Church belief, which have never featured in any Anglican church doctrine.

Now let me go back to the crux of the matter, that is your erroneous claim that Jesus was/is an angel. Hebrews 1:5 have already knocked out that claim. You are free to push Hebrews 1:5 under the bus in order to push WTS ideology. It is not a crime anyway.

You quoted 1 Thessalonian 4:16 to validate your argument but your deceit and desperation was so glaring as you try to choose the sentence, in/from the text, that favours your argument (even though you guys were deliberately misrepresenting the text and reading your theological beliefs into what the text never said). For the sake of clarity let me post it again and expose your folly once more:

New King James Version (1 Thessalonians 4:16)

1) For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout,

2) with the voice of an archangel,

3) with the trumpet of God.

4) And the dead in Christ will rise first.

The emphases are on 2 and 3. If you claim that Jesus is the one having the voice of an archangel then he should also be the one having the trumpet of God. You cannot choose one and leave the other. Truthfulness and consistency is key here.
Now answer this question posed by Apostle Paul in Hebrews 1:5 and bring any biblical evidence to the contrary.

1) For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

2) What is the relationship between what job said in Job 38:1-7 and what Paul said in Hebrews 1:5?

I need you answer the above questions as short as possible without juxtaposing unrelated biblical verses to confused yourself the more, as dictated to you by the watchtower. Be brief, concise and straightforward in your response to the above questions.

Thank you!

haddeylium:
2.In 1 Thessalonians 4:16 it states the Lord (the resurrected Jesus Christ) calls the dead out with the voice of an “Archangel”.

3.[s]Therefore, Jesus Christ and Michael are one and the same individual in different roles and position.[/s]

Your point 2, which the JWs use as the only prove of Jesus being an angel, is false and never supported by any other verse of the scripture. If you quote the verse completely, without omitting the 2nd statement in the same verse, you will end up exposing your fallacy.

New King James Version
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

1) For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout.

2) with the voice of an archangel (the verse says 'an archangel' which means there are more than one archangels)

3) with the trumpet of God (if Jesus is the voice of an archangel, as you claim, he is equally the trumpet of God. You cannot pick and choose what you want from the verse).

My conclusion: Jesus will descend from heaven in company of an archangel, which the bible never specified his name, whose shout (voice) will herald his coming in company of other angels who will blow the trumpet of God. This is a simple English that JWs, and the governing body, had twisted in order to establish a strange and heretical theology.

Side bar:

1) New King James Version (Heb 1:5)
For to which of the angels did He EVER say: “You are My Son, Today I have begotten You”? And again: “I will be to Him a Father, And He shall be to Me a Son”? The answer is NONE (angel Michael inclusive).

JWs should stop talking nonsense abeg and read the Bible themselves without following the watchtower script : what the bibe really teaches.

Na waoo!

Stop using rug, and always clear your cloths from dust. Go and see a doctor.

Is the manhood using Iphone battery?

Quincy38:
legon legon

It is true ooo. Seun should sue them for copywrite violation.

@ OP, thanks for bringing this to the attention of the Igbos. I am 99% sure that Igbos will download this app and rate it 5*(star).

Sterope:
1. Do you know her that well?. A minor can have have an ass bigger than 10 pineapples. She is still a minor. Assuming she isn't, it is still sexual harassment. Sexual harassment is a crime. It isn't the norm yet in Nigeria. Culture is changing, the youths are different. Hopefully in a couple of years, the guilty will begin to spend time behind bars. . That will be most satisfying


2. You don't need to show resistance. A minor is a minor.

3. That is shocking why, her face was blurred...did you see her smiling and laughing with him or what?

4. Not everyone goes to a panic mode biko.

5. Make it make sense please. There is something called entrapment in law. If a policeman approaches you and offer to sell you cocaine, that is entrapment and it won't hold. If you approach the policeman and ask to buy cocaine, it isn't. Now apply that to this situation. There is also the added benefit of being a minor. Even if she comes at you, you run the other way.

6. That can happen it is possible. More often than not, the abuser is usually guilty. You have a video and a confession. How far will you like to twist the truth to suit yourself?

7.That was eons ago. Good try again. You are just trying to throw a bucketful of assumptions to justify a predator. Thanks for telling us the kind of person you are.

Lmao. Now it is 'Let's make it about Princess'. Some man you are.

Thanks so much for your mature and reasonable response. Even though we see this issue from a different perspective I appreciate your manner of response.

Of course her face was blurred in the video but it won't be blurred in the court of law. People that know her will attest to her real age and the defense lawyer will also verify her real age. Remember, in a scandalous and sensational issue like this, the age of the alleged victims are always lowered to garner public sympathy and outcry. I have, and many others, have always doubted the official age the media, and princess, gave the girl. That's however not a justification for rape or molestation.

And again, if the judgement is based solely on what we see on the video, except if we have other damning evidence, baba Ijesha will go scotfree. That video is never incriminating enough. There is nothing in that video that suggested rape or overt sexual molestation. Caveat: I never endorsed sexual harassment in any way and i fully condemn it.

If this incident happened in a country like the US or UK, baba Ijesha willl be the one seeking damages and not the other way round because there is no any shred of evidence of any form of coersiin. Besides, the lady in question, based on video evidence look far above 14. My 21 year old sister (last born) has the same body mass as the girl in the video. If she is 14 she is physically matured above her age and most men approach ladies/girls, not based on their age but on their physique and physical maturity.

Thank you.

authority2006:
Just like using sledge hammer to kill a mosquito. Everyone handling this case has been intimidated and blackmailed

Exactly! Most people are looking at the issue from emotional, instead of a rational, point of view.

1) The lady in the video I saw is never 14 but between the ages of 17-24 years

2) At no point in time did the lady resisted his illicit sexual advances

3) Both seemed relax and comfortable with each other

4) The lady didn't show any sign of being in any panic mode when the man was making the advances to her,and as a matter of fact,she was complicit

5) If it was a setup, that means the people who arranged the setup are equally guiity since they have a foreknowledge of the possible outcome

6) What if the so-called princess was in a romantic relationship with baba Ijesha and she felt betrayed by the man she loved and trusted and sought a way of destroying him

7) The so-called princess recently had a crashed marriage hence all men are guiity as far as she is concerned and will go any length to destroy any man that criosses her path.

Note: The moist dangerous woman is a scorned and a jilted woman.

BenAndrew:
Your point is??

Stop this nonsense bro. The guy is never guilty of any crime and FYI, it were in western countries, the so-called princess will be in jail and not baba Ijesha.

Did he rape the girl? No.

Igboid:
Onye Unity beggar. Ndi Ifele eme. Ndi IPOB.
Melu unu onwe unu ebele.

Wike and Ikwerre people never start killing una sef. There are still 2 more years to go.

Keep blaming Fulanis for Ikwerre Igbophobia. Don't grow brain and protect yourself from them(Ikwerre Igbophobia). Keep calling a people that see you worst than a devil, brothers.
Don't grow a brain. Remain stupid. Ubulu eke!

A fulani man would have impregnated your mother for you not ok knowing your identity. Get a DNA test and be sure of your ancestory.

Igboid:
Unity beggar.
Leave Ikwerre people already. Emelu unu ya eme? They already told you they are not interested in your Igbo/Biafra thing.
Nah una type Okpo(Prostitute) go open office for una head.
She tell you say she no dey interested, you stupidly keep showering her with money and love. She will play along and zap all your money, and then you come back crying like a fool.

Be a man, let them be. Show dignity and self respect. When someone/people don't want to flow with you, respect their opinion and decisions and let them be.t

Divider-seeker. Fulani idiot.