₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
So stop judging people over what they eat or drink! Matthew 15:12-20

You need to try cocaine or marijuana. I am no longer judging you.

MaxInDHouse:
God instructed His people to buy strong drink and enjoy themselves!

And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household. KJV Deuteronomy 14:26

Look at the text again:

And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after…

The context, ordinarily looked as if God permitted an unlimited lust and pleasure, was actually a test to the children of Isreal on moderation and how to spend their tithe. If you look at the text from the literal point of view that God approved excesses and gluttony, then you are not a student of the scripture. If you compare other scriptures where God strongly condemned the use of strong drink you will get the context more properly. You don’t establish a doctrine using an isolated Bible verse.

Look at Prover 6:30;Men do not despise a thief, if he steal To satisfy himself when he is hungry.

If you agree that God permitted you to use strong drinks, do you also think a man can steal to satify his hunger? Context is key bro!

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus turned water to WINE! John 4:46

Jesus turned water into wine and not strong drink or alcohol. We have non-alcholic wines in the market. If coke, Pepsi, Mirinda, etc were available at the time of Jesus, they will be classified as wine as well.

MaxInDHouse:
Hope you're not playing the extremist here?

You are the one parroting the watchtower narrative without thinking for yourself. If you think for yourself you will see some of the errors in the watchtowers doctrines.Many people had seen the errors and they left your organization. And to blackmail them you call them apostates, infidels, mentally ill (as some other derogatory terms) even if they leave and join another Christian group.

Your organization call anyone who leaves JW as ‘MENTALLY ILL’ If you leave the organization tomorrow they will also call you ‘MENTALLY ILL’

Janosky:
Matthew 24:38 "people were eating and drinking". * 1 Corinthians 10:31 "whether you are eating and drinking, do all things for God's glory". Luke 7:34 "....the Son of Man came eating and drinking...". You mean Jesus led people into sin by turning water into wine? Jesus drank alcohol....Bros roger that. .

’Eating and drinking’ does not mean ‘Eating and drinking alcohol’. As a matter of fact 99% of human eat and drink only water while eating. So from your English lexicon, according to the watchtower lexicon, drinking mean ‘taking alcohol’.

You have to go back to school if that’s what you have been told to believe.

Janosky:
This moniker "true2..." Is a confirmed hypocrite. His rabid attacks of other people's beliefs plenty for this forum.What a very manipulative character !

Pot calling kettle black. Your Watchtower and Awake! magazines are filled with anti-Christian bigotry. It is ironic that you are the one making this statement. Your bigotry doesn't even allow you mention by moniker in full but called me "true2..."

MaxInDHouse:
Well he did drank alcoholic beverages Sir, that's why observers could call him a drunkard {Luke 7:31-35} it will make no sense calling someone a drunkard if no one ever saw him drink Alcoholic beverages nah!

You didn't look at the context properly and have no understanding of when a hyperbolic statement is made. Part of the text said:

For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon.

From your understanding:

1) John the Baptist never ate any food

2) John never drink any wine, hence

3) John the Baptist must have a demon because the Pharisees said so.

A rational person will understand that John ate, drank wine and has no demon but he devoted most of his life fasting and always fed of locust and wild honey.

Now let’s look at the other part:

The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.

From your understanding:

1) Jesus came eating and drinking (that is drinking ‘ogoro’, beer or other strong drinks the same way JWs do)

2) Jesus was a friend of tax collectors (modern day ‘agberos’ touts, or NURTW)

3) Jesus was a friend to sinners (since the Pharisees or the Jews said so)

Of course you cannot choose where the Jews called ‘a drunkard’ and ignore where they also called John the baptist 'demon-possessed'. Was Jesus a drunkard? No! Was a John the Baptist demon-possessed? No!

You are justifying drunkenness by misinterpreting the scriptures. This is a lie and a deceit the watchtower had been feeding you. Stop drinking alcohol.

Janosky:
Please quote Luke 7:34 & put yourself to shame.Your bigotry is nausating

Why are afraid of quoting it yourself and explain same to me. Go and take your 5 bottles of beer, as advised by your GB, and stop calling Jesus a drunkard. Explain how the accusation by the Jews, who always find fault in him, made him a consumer of alcohol (Luke 7:34).

godwinkessi:
This set of governors from south now have sense except for Imo Governor. Their recent unity is killing this Northerners. They’re so pained about the whole unity bullshiiit, even the southern representatives too are trying. I think those in senate(which are mostly corrupt former governors) are not trying visibly well. For long the strongest coalition of governors have been Northern Governors forum, instead of South Governors forum, all we hear is South East governors forum, SouthSouth and Southwest, while the whole north always comes out as one while they cause division amongst south. This is the first time it’s happening like this and I know they’re really against this move and will be doing anything possible to fight the unity. It’s very shameful how the only person they got so far is Imo Governor who avoid this meetings. I know they can never use Imo Governor to scatter this ordained Unity from God. It has been signed by God

Uzodimma's absense is a blessing because he is a curse to the south and people of Imo state. He is answerable to the caliphate and not to the umunna.

MaxInDHouse:
Well he did drank alcoholic beverages Sir, that's why observers could call him a drunkard {Luke 7:31-35} it will make no sense calling someone a drunkard if no one ever saw him drink Alcoholic beverages nah!

Luke 7:31-35 NIV: Jesus went on to say, “To what, then, can I compare the people of this generation? What are they like? They are like children sitting in the marketplace and calling out to each other: “ ‘We played the pipe for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not cry.’ For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon.’ The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’ But wisdom is proved right by all her children.”. The bible advised to the contrary:

Proverbs 31:6 - Give strong drink (including beer) to him who is perishing, And wine to him whose life is bitter.

Proverbs 20:1 – “Wine is a mocker, strong drink is a brawler, and whoever is led astray by it is not wise.” ...


The passage never said Jesus drank alcoholic beverages. The Bible condemned strong drinks (alcohol) in its strongest term. Lying against Jesus to encourage ‘drunkenness’ shows how desperate JWs could be. I am 200% sure that if your guys get a new light, from the governing body, that alcohol is bad, you will immediately change your tune and start condemning alcohol. That the Jews condemned Jesus that he did miracles with the power of demons, does that make them right?

Stop defending evil. I have seen many witnesses whose husbands have drinking problems, because of the false teachings of the watchtower, but the wives have to stay because the elders convinced them to. I have a JW friend whose parents run a ‘beer parlour’ business and they usually open shops as soon as they are back from their preaching work. If a customer demands for 12 bottles of big stout will they advise him to drink responsibly? Do you have any passage of the Bible that asked Christians to drink alcohol beverage but responsibly?

Stop insulting Jesus.

MaxInDHouse:
To 8.7 millions from different races throughout the earth this is the most sensible way of reasoning Sir, and as for drinking Jesus drank too so we only need to drink responsibly!

Jesus was not said to have drank alcolohic beverage and JWs are some of the worst drinkers.

Image123:
Type sensibly, stop drinking.

JWs can drink alcohol like fish. Maybe he is always drunk before typing.

MaxInDHouse:
Isaiah 2:2-4

(2)In the final part of the days, The mountain of the house of Jehovah Will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, And it will be raised up above the hills, And to it all the nations will stream.

People will willingly subject themselves to the same line of thought and they will all agree on one from of worship

Surely this is not strange!




(3) And many peoples will go and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, To the house of the God of Jacob. He will instruct us about his ways, And we will walk in his paths.” For law will go out of Zion, And the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem.

They will agree to worship the God of Jacob so it's His word (Bible) that will become the yardstick

Somehow this is also not special because many are claiming Christians carrying the Bible up and down.

(4) He will render judgment among the nations And set matters straight respecting many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares And their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, Nor will they learn war anymore.

They will settle all racial disputes within them, they will divert all what comes in to their purse to produce food both physical and spiritual, they will not carry weapons anymore and they will vow never to pick up weapons against anyone


Now this only applies to one global family:
"JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES"

Go and sleep because you are talking nonsense. A kindergarten cannot even talk this way. I have attended muslim debate where my co-debater used this same verse to defend Islam as the only true religion.

You are not making sense abeg!

MaxInDHouse:
It's ironic that their lies has helped in uniting people from all races and making one big and happy family of peace loving worshipers out of them {Isaiah 2:2-4} that their lies must be the greatest miracle even greater than all what the Bible recorded!

Isaiah 2:2-4, Muslims have equally quoted this verse to claim Islam to be the true religion. Any Christian organization can lay claim to this Bible verse because it is not exclusive to JWs. I really don’t understand what you try to prove that most religions never did before the watchtower organization was established Jaze Taze Russel in NY, US in the late 18th century.

MaxInDHouse:
So far you and your cohorts can't present a better performing group for us to join if one should leave JWs, we love it that way!

If you are a Muslim I will call you a potential terrorist but being a JW, you are a potential liar, manipulator and a deceiver whose dedication is to the 8-men (called the governing body, your modern-day holy spirit) in Brookly New York, US.

I recommended the REAL Christ to you and not an organization. Organizations are man-made and are subject to human weaknesses. I will never recommend JW for you because what you call the 'Bible Truth' today can become a lie tomorrow as soon as the light becomes brighter darker.

falseprophet:
I know it will come down to "we are being hated like Jesus" and "they are persecuting JWs", Lols

There is no watchtower publication out there one can read without them bashing and condemning other christians.

But Other christian publications like Sunday school manuals, etc can pass their message across without mentioning JWs or watchtower.

So among these two who is the aggressor or the persecutor?

JWs spread hate among themselves against other denominations and at the same time claim they're hated and persecuted.

Very correct! It is like when an aggressor shouting he is being victimized after killing his victim. The watchtower will shout 'persecuted' but will devote all their energy attacking other Christians in their magazines. The irony here is that an average JW cant even see into this hypocrisy. That is the level of manipulation they have been subjected to by their GB and their organization.

MaxInDHouse:
JEHOVAH ~ Jesus Christ ~ Governing Body ~ all members of JWs globally

Technically the 'Governing Body' has replaced the 'Holy Spirit'. We are getting there gradually; the light is getting brighter darker day by day.

Matthew 20: 19: Go, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (Governing Body).

falseprophet:
The MaxInDHouse thought he can open a thread and title it "Study The Bible With Jehovah's Witnesses!" and then expect everyone to accept everything he dishes out as truth without questioning it.

Its not his fault anyways, JWs are used to bullying their bible students into submission using the threat of "Armageddon".

NEWSFLASH: MaxInDHouse this is not kingdom hall and we are not your bible students incase you are mixing things up.

Thanks for the clarification. Maybe he now assumes the position of the 'governing body' here on Nairaland to determine what we should accept as the 'Bible truth', the so-called 'Bible truth' that is subject to modification when the JWs dark light becomes brighter.

MaxInDHouse:
You're just envious of God's people!

When you use the word ‘God’s people’, what/who do you mean? Christians are God’s people and why should I be envious of them, the demographic which I also belong.

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus didn't report Judas for stealing.

What did Judas steal and provide the evidence/reference? Any modern organization that doesn’t arrest their accountant for fraud will go out of business and may face litigation in the future. Your example doesn’t make sense.

MaxInDHouse:
David did not report his son for committing incest.

Incest is a bad thing and that David didn’t report it doesn’t make it cool. And remember, the incest led to murder and war within his family. God still judge that practice in his own way despite the fact that David controls the judicial authorities then which granted him a sort of immunity. The penalty for incest, according to mosaic law (the civil law then) is death.

MaxInDHouse:
Jacob did not report his sons for genocide.

Which of the sons of Jacob committed genocide (homicide) and provide reference? Are you now saying that homicide should not be reported to the authorities?

MaxInDHouse:
When your son steals your money, commit incest or does anything go and report to the police.

God forbid that my son steals, or do any of the vices you mentioned. I have seen fathers report their criminal children to the police. If a father fails to report his son who commit murder to the police, he is an accomplice. If the watchtower discourages their members from reporting cases of murder and rape within the organization, they are accessory to the crime.

MaxInDHouse:
Nobody is holding you back and if you find any JW wanting go and report. What I’m telling you is that God's organization will not compel or force members to go and testify against fellow believers before pagans!

Thank God for gradually confessing. We are getting somewhere. So the police and the judiciary (lawyers inclusive) are pagans who ensure law and order, and punishing offenders. That means the watchtowers are worse than pagans because the Bible admonished us to obey people in authority. If the law makes it mandatory for all cases of sexual offense and murder to be reported but the watchtower advised you not to, then that makes the watchtower evil and law breakers.

MaxInDHouse:
It's issues we will settle within ourselves that you people will continue to drag until it turns out to wars within you people, God's word said "they will use God's word to settle all their issues amicably" Micah 4:3 That's our heritage and our righteousness is from our God! Isaiah 54:17

Do you mean the issue of rape and murder should be settles amicably without involving state authorities, especially if both parties are JWs?

Janosky:
You said falseprophet decisions is "subject to change depending on circumstances." What then, is your basis for spurious claim of manipulation when you know falseprophet wasn't under duress to express himself (for studying with JWs or against some JWs beliefs unacceptable to him) on this platform?

When you continuously use my statement to guilt-trap me, it is a sign of a manipulative behaviour. If you are reminding me of my past statement, even when I have told you reasons for my position, that’s psychological manipulation. This is what Max had been doing.

Janosky:
Max said JWs don't want any stories, if you're no more interested you're FREE to go and join any other better performing religion OF YOUR CHOICE!
Where is manipulation you're talking about?

Why would he choose to study with JWs when he knows some beliefs are unacceptable to him today? Are you a mind reader, to know if falseprophet may have a rethink tomorrow and reconsider his stand today?

You are using the carrot and stick policy. I have no business if ‘falseprophet’ chooses to go back to watchtower or not. He has every right to join any group he likes but what I hate is guilt-trapping someone into submission which is the notorious psychological warfare the watchtower employ on people. I am however immune to any of that.

Janosky:
So, Bros, you dey pick some & discard others like say your dey shopping mall (pretending say you dey church)?.

I am not a JW who treat the Bible like the Islamic hadith. It is your organization that does that.

MaxInDHouse:
I have heard you Sir, and I love the way you've help him to say part of what he has in mind!

Thank you for thanking me.

MaxInDHouse:
Jehovah's Witnesses teachings and doctrines totally differs from all other religions {John 17:14} the GB serves as representatives of Jehovah and Jesus Christ in our midst {Hebrews 13:7,17} any act of disobedience to them is tantamount to a rebellious act against our God {Numbers 12:8} and that is what keeps us together and going as one big family. John 17:20-23

Jehovah's Witnesses teachings and doctrines totally differs from all other religions the same way sunni muslims teachings and doctrines totally differs from all other religions, the same way Janist teachings and doctrines totally differs from all other religions, the same way Bhudist teachings and doctrines totally differs from all other religions. So what exactly is your point? To even consider the fact that watchtower is not another religion but a subset of the larger Christian body is laughable. You quote the Bible, the do holy communion, you baptise your members, etc just like other Christian body and you are still making a claim to be a completely other religion. That’s magical and strange.

MaxInDHouse:
What exactly is his position now?
Does he still feels like returning?. Because his demands totally negates our faith, all members must remain in total submission to the GB whatever decision they makes is what the entire Organization will follow. So there's no room for indecision we just want to know his position on the matter, NO STORY!

Whatever his position is not your business but between him and his God. Run your own race and stay in your own lane.

MaxInDHouse:
Point of correction: The Organization is not for public judicial system so if anyone wants to go and make a report to the police they're free to do so but the Organization will never force anyone to TESTIFY against his fellow believer before pagans!. Some felt the Organization should force or compel members to testify against their fellow believers when it's cases outside the group so when they notice that it's not done they start saying all these against the Organization.

Your organization has every right and need to advise it members to obey the authorities as the Bible, which they always quote, asked Christians to, including the judicial system. The law made it mandatory to report ALL crime, especially murder and sexual molesting but watchtower circulated a memo advising it members not to report one another to the authorities. Is that what your Jehovah advised you to do? Covering up for criminals.

MaxInDHouse:
Very very related Sir! Judas Iscariot was their treasurer, this man used to STEAL from the purse {John 12:4-6} please convince me that Jesus is not aware of Judas's acts or tell me why Jesus never reported Judas or speak about the theft.

The problem you guys have is that you always use Bible verses to defend your evil. You choose what you want and reject others. There is nowhere Jesus asked him disciples never to report evil to the authorities the same way watchtower is doing. Quoting John 12:4-6 to defend the watchtower’s position is laughable and shows that you have been seriously used by your organization.

MaxInDHouse:
Do you believe that God's Holy Spirit works with the first century Christians? Why does some lied to the spirit? Act 5:4. Why was adultery reported in their midst? 1Corinthians 5:1. My guy the presence of God's Holy Spirit does not guarantee perfection in the lives of individuals, it only give room for correction as each members is washing his/her DIRTY ROBE in the blood of the lamb! Revelations 7:14

Christ said:‘not all that call me “Lord, Lord shall enter the kingdom of God but he that does the will of my father”’.

Not all the first century Christians are true believers as said by Paul hence not all of them have the Holy Spirit in them. You cannot lump everyone together into the same basket in order to defend your organization’s untruthfulness. Adultery is a sin but not a crime in many countries and never a crime in the US, Europe and even Nigeria. Morally it is not good but legally it is not a crime. If someone sleeps with another man’s wife the latter cannot take him to court and win. If someone rapes another man’s wife it becomes a criminal matter. There is a difference between adultery, which is always consensual, and rape which is often coercive. The Bible verse you are quoting to defend the watchtower’s policy of concealing criminal behaviours within their organization doesn’t make sense. The issue being reported, according to the Bible verse you quoted, was about adultery (which can be considered a family issue) and not rape (which is a state crime).

MaxInDHouse:
You err greatly Sir! Even here in Nigeria we know that there are racial traits so you can't deny it!

There is no racism in Nigeria but ethnicity and Tribalism. In watchtower, there is racism because almost all the members of your governing body are white Caucasians in a religion that you call universal and for all races.

MaxInDHouse:
The Christian brother in Corinth {1Corinthians 5:1} was reported not to the authorities but to the elders in the Christian Congregation who took the matter to Paul. Paul told them to disfellowship the offender {1Corinthians 5:9-13} not to take the matter to the authority but if the complainant decides to report that case to the authorities neither Paul nor Apostles or any of the Elders will compel members to testify as Witnesses against their fellow believer before pagans. So the first century Christians handled cases within them!

Read my earlier post on this.

MaxInDHouse:
Guy i'm not talking about any race outside Israel, there are twelve tribes of Israel {Exodus 1:1-5} only two in the south (Benjamin and Judah) are called "Jews" while the remaining ten tribes of the northern part of Israel are called "Samaritans". All the twelve Apostles Jesus chose were Jews none from Samaria {Luke 6:13-16} and he is making them rulers in heaven over the entire nation of Israel {Matthew 19:28} do you know that the foundation stones of heavenly city where Jesus will rule were named according to the twelve Apostles? Revelations 21:15 . So it's the same Jesus Sir {Hebrews 13:8} all we are expecting from him is LOVE, JOY, PEACE, PATIENCE, GOODNESS, GENTLENESS, FAITH, MILDNESS and SELF-CONTROL {Galatians 5:22-23} which are the qualities of God's Holy Spirit in the midst of Jesus' followers as he promised {Matthew 7:16-18} that's what it means to BELIEVE (TRUST) in his judgement {John 3:16} no wonder there is no religious group apart from JWs that's having LOVE permeating their gathering like JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES {John 13:34-35} your quest for racial balance can't make you relate well with your fellow believers in other lands the same way JWs relate like one family throughout the earth!

Here you come again, using JW’s gymnastics to defend the obvious racism and supremacy going on in your organization. It is even shocking the you are putting your watchtower in the position of Jesus and the GB in the position of the disciples in order to defend their obvious racism. It is a shame and a disgrace that you call non-JW Christians ‘racist and murderers’ while you ignore the racism and murder (including abortions) going on in your organization.

MaxInDHouse:
The topic of my thread is "Study The Bible With Jehovah's Witnesses" whoever wants to participate have just two options:
© Show interest and tell us why he will like to study the Bible with the world's most vilified and controversial religious group.
© Ask direct questions pertaining to what seems difficult for him to understand this group.
Apart from this two options any other commentator only need to pass a remark and MOVE ON.
So when someone joins the discussion saying there is nothing to write home about religious gatherings but if he should reconsider going back to any religious group JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES will be his choice.
Surely he has made his points clear!
That's why i commended him and highlighted the point needed in his post after all he didn't come for arguments but to express his own thought on the ongoing discussion.


Now this is where he exposed himself!

After commending him and thanking him for the contribution he began going off track trying to initiate fruitless arguments. I still pointed out what is needed in his comments and showed appreciation for his concern but he is like harbouring some kind of animosity which he will like to pour out.
So i decided to follow him up in order to know exactly his mission!
If his choice is JWs then he's supposed to tell the forum why choosing JWs over the others since JWs doctrines, manner of evangelism, judicial decisions and way of life totally contradicts what others teaches. But the opposite is this commentator's behavior.
He began arguing about why HIS CHOISEST keeps posing as the only group belonging to God!
From subtle entry to fierce opposition of the same group he called HIS CHOISEST and bent on proving his CHOICE is as worthless as the ones he vowed never to return to.
Then after noticing how JWs proved to be loyal and faithful to their own choice he began showing his true colour like "don't take any form of worship serious, God is everywhere"
Please what exactly is the position of this commentator?
For your information i always study each of you thoroughly before i engage you in serious discussions. None of you has proved to be like a Serpent that's neither here nor there except acholardey. The attitude of this falseprophet guy perfectly matches acholardey leaving no room for doubts!
He is the only Nairalander that's opposed to JWs yet can't stand any other form of worship but anytime he's coming on Nairaland it's only to say "JWs are OK but they shouldn't claim they know all, others are also up to the task as Christians" But watch acholardey closely you'll see that he's presently associating with no other group but JWs because the latest info at our meetings he will bring to this forum only to tackle the claim that JWs can't be God's representatives.
So i've been studying the anonymous commentator who had nothing to do with the religious section this year except my thread but decided to continue criticizing the one and only religious Organization he himself publicly declared "They are his CHOICE"

Decision making can be fluid and subjected to changes depending on circumstances. One can make certain statement to keep the other at ease and can make other statement to unsettled someone depending on what he wants to achieve. That the guy initially said if he wants to study he would prefer doing that with the JW, that's not a straightjacket decision that MUST be enforced. He can say that to be diplomatic with you and keep you at ease (while he didn't actually mean it) or say such from a sincere heart. That depends on his real intent. However going with his latter statements, which you find very shocking an unacceptable (because you wanted him to massage your ego by keep speaking good about the watchtower) it is obvious he is not going back to JW. This is because he had been there,just as your are currently are, and had seen many practices and teachings that he felt unacceptable.

Nevertheless, what you are doing is to subtly attack him using his earlier post as a bait in order to emotionally blackmail him, or psychologically manipulative him. That psychological manipulation is being worked on you by the watchtower doesn't mean that you can apply the same to someone else here.

On a sidebar, while your watchtower magazines are filled with Catholic (and other Christan sect) bashing, I have never seen you guys bash Islam in your magazines. Do you know why? You guys know the soft and hard path to thread to avoid sinking. The very moment you guys started bashing Islam, that's when you willl understand the meaning of 'mind your business'.

MaxInDHouse:
Can't you see that your double account style of criticizing JWs is not working?

I know you're the same person using two accounts i just played along to see how far you will go with the game.
It's over acholardey i know both accounts belongs to you!

I am also archolardey, seun (the owner of Nairalland) is also archolardey. You are right.

MaxInDHouse:
The highlighted is what falseprophet typed with his own hands!
So i didn't label him "stupid" he did and proved to be all by himself!

Grow up man and stop behaving like a kid. Why quoting people to emotionally and technically blackmail them. What you are doing, by highliting some of their previous post, amounts to a subtle way of blackmailing the person. Make your points intelligently without resorting to this watchtower-style of emotional and psychological manipulation.

falseprophet:
Your official policy says members cannot report child molesters to police or relevant authorities, you were ordered to report to elders who will now "judge" the matter.

How can your elders cover up such evil and contain it from getting to authorities, so they can do the job of police, court and judge?

Romans 13:1 - Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

Such matters are handled by state authorities and not your elders, your elders clearly knows what scriptures said about constituted authorities but chose to ignore just so they won't wash their dirty linens in the world.

Thank you my brother. It is only a criminal and evil organization that will tell it members not to report the incidents of rape, child molestation or even murder to the authorities in order to cover-up the crimes going on in that organization. The organization want to appear good and decent to the public hence need to cover up for it mess.

In many countries, protecting perpetrators of evil, the same way JW does, is a criminal offense that requires some jail term. It is even ironic that the watchtower, who are fond of quoting related and unrelated Bible verses to reinforce their position, willl suddenly be blind to Bible verses that mandated us to obey the people' in authorities. This is very crazy, manipulative and mind controlling on the part of the watchtower organization.

Anyway, we have millions of people out there who lack critical thinking and are capable of being easily manipulated. The watchtower organization is taking advantage of the gullible nature of their members to control and determine how they think and view things.

MaxInDHouse:
You're getting it all wrong my friend. According to the Bible all humans are sinners which means anywhere you find humans the works of the flesh will be noticed. Even Jesus can't defend his Apostles when it comes to the works of the flesh, yet Jesus will tell you that if you're not part of his followers (those exercising faith in him) you're doomed! Luke 18:18-23. So if you were one of Jesus' contemporaries you would have condemned him outrightly without a second thought!

Agreed, all human are sinner but it is more evil to advice your congregation to cover-up for rapist, arsonist and murderers within you. You are to report crime to the authorities and this is what watchtowers had discouraged their members from doing. They hide the evil going on in their midst in order to portray a false image to the larger society.

MaxInDHouse:
Judas Iscariot was one of the twelve (closest confidants) of Jesus yet he betrayed him. Does that renders Jesus' claim as the only way to God invalid?

As in, how does this relate to JWs covering up for their members who broke the law and meant to be jailed? Did Jesus coverup for Judas?

MaxInDHouse:
You're mistaking Sir! What i said is "God's Holy Spirit works only with JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES that's why they as imperfect humans are achieving what God promised globally" as for morality it's not what Jesus' preaching and teaching is about otherwise the young Jewish ruler doesn't need anything else since he is morally clean! Luke 18:20-21

If your so-called 'God's holy spirit' works only with JW we won't be having cases of sexual molestation and other vices. Your 'God's holy spirit' must be a devil's spirit for not directing you guys to always act rightly and morally.

MaxInDHouse:
Why are you adding salt, pepper and seasoning to the story nah?
God's Organization is facing different racial traits in various countries so if pedophilia is the problem Americans have of course the JWs there will have to fight that trait and cleanse themselves of such habits just as their brothers in other lands are also fighting traits that's peculiar to their own race. So coming here to say JWs are the worst regarding a trait peculiar to a race makes your story laughable Sir!

Sorry bro, no crime is peculiar to any race or demographic. JWs has the highest cases of pedophilia and sexually-related cases in the US and Europe. Your defense is getting very annoying and embarrassing. You are a thinking adult for God's sake. How many such cases do Deeperlife, Redeem, Methodist, Presbyterians, etc have in the US and Europe since those crimes, as you say, as geo-specific and racially-induced.

MaxInDHouse:
Paul's admonition is for all beleivers in Christ that's why Christians back then were working really hard to put away the old personality {Colossians 3:9} as for reporting cases within our brothers to the authorities, that's a lie! It's each person that will decide what to do on that but members shouldn't expect the Organization to go and report on their behalf, it's between you and the person you want to report and don't expect any member to stand for you as a witness against his Christian brother before unbelievers, that's why we have our own judicial panel. If you feel like taking the case out of our own judicial panel to pagans then you're free to do so but don't expect the Organization to compel fellow believers to stand as witness against their own Christian brother or sister. So go now and broadcast it because that's the truth of the matter! It's when some feels like making fellow believers their witness in court against a believer can't find such that they're not OK with it. They want the Organization to compel members to witness against fellow believers before pagans and that is not our heritage. We are JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES not Witnesses against our fellow believers before pagans!

Why must you create a judicial panel thereby creating a parallel judicial system in a secular society? it is a know fact that sexual abuse cases in JW are never meant to be reported to the civil authority. This is lawlessness on the part of the watchtower organization; obstruction of justice and rebellion against the civil authority.

MaxInDHouse:
When Jesus appointed the first twelve Apostles, do you know that they were all Jews? For your information Jews are the two tribes of Israel that were separated in the southern part of Israel. Samaritans were the other ten tribes, yet Jesus said to the twelve chosen Jews “Truly I say to you, in the re-creation, when the Son of man sits down on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will sit on 12 thrones, judging the 12 tribes of Israel"
Matthew 19:28

And so, Jesus was dealing with the Jews and was sent to the house of Israel in his earthly ministry. Bringing up unrelated Bible verses to support obvious racism within your watchtower organization is crazy. Remember, you accused other Christian sect of being 'murderous and racist' (a typical JW blackmail and slander) while all your governing body member are Caucasians. It was until recently they appointment 1 Blackman after they were accused of being a racist organization.

MaxInDHouse:
Why not go and question our Master, Lord and King (Jesus Christ) who chose only Jews as Apostles but made them rulers over the entire twelve tribes of Israel? Well he is still in charge of the affairs {Hebrews 13:8} so we don't think like racists, we are not practicing DEMOCRACY that's why there is LOVE, JOY and PEACE permeating the entire Organization globally! Matthew 7:16-18

Here you go again, invoking Jesus to defend racism going on the watchtower. Did Jesus come in contact with the Chinese, the Japanese, the Ethiopians, Indians, Arabs, etc such that he didn't chose any of this race among his disciples? Why dont we have Chinese, Indians, Africans, etc among the governing body? Why must it always be Caucasians since the watchtower are not racist?

If you want to defend the watchtower do that with logic.

falseprophet:
Come out of your little shell being controlled by American businessmen headquartered in Newyork united States and see worship of God beyond religion.

Will he heed the advice? Excessive brainwashing by the governing body at Brooklyn New York is hard to jettison. Thank God we have thousands of JW apostates who have seen through watchtower's psychological charade/warfare against their victims (the so-called house-to-house snake oil merchants selling their Awake and Watchtower magazines controlled by the fear of the utopian Armageddon)

falseprophet:
words such as ransom sacrifice, grace, repentance and baptism are clear teachings of the bible, but words like dedication, God's representatives, governing body are strange to the body of Christ.

You actually understand how they technically used words to define the beliefs of their cult. The words like 'Christendom', 'spirit creatures', 'Jehovah's holy spirit', 'discreet slaves', etc are fashioned to define their theology despite the fact that these buzz words have no place in any biblical manuscript.

Please stop studying JWs false teachings.

So funny that the Fulanis army have become world power because they have access to AK47s while the rest dont.

You are preaching and I don’t need your sermon. You are to defend your position and prove to me that there are no cases of unreported sexual abuses, paedophilia and lasciviousness among the JW. Note, you painted the entire non-Jw Christians as racist, political and murderous. This is what watchtower had pumped into your head despite the fact that we have over 20,000 Christian denominations with slightly varying theology, beliefs and even lifestyles, but you decided to paint all the rest in a broad-brush in order to prove that the watchtower is the truth. This is not only a stupid way of drawing a classification but also crazy as someone with simple sense of logic will see that it is not true.

And FYA, I can name many non-JW Christian organizations who are not into politics, not murderous and not racist. Mind you, I don’t condemn politics because even in your organization there are elements of politicking because you can’t just become a member of the GB without lobbying and playing your politics very well. Go and read the book, CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE, written by Raymond Franz, an ex-JW and an ex member of your governing body and understand politics and politicking in the watchtower.

Now back to the crux of the matter, you made a claim that JW has both the absolute truth and morality, can you empirically prove this?

MaxInDHouse:
There are so many accusations against Israel, you will find both good and bad habits in their midst, they claim to be the only worshipers of the true God and what do you think about the God who keeps saying about Israel: "This is my people". Do you think this God is partial when He ignore all other nations only to pick Israel as His people? Do you think there is no nice persons in any other country when the God of Israel keep devoting them to destruction anytime they're against His people?

Do you mean the accusations against watchtower are false and baseless? The watchtower is the religious organization in the US with the highest numbers of sexual molestation cases within the organization, please deal with this fact and leave the children of Israel alone.

MaxInDHouse:
Well learn from Jesus who despite all the atrocities of the Jews confirmed that Salvation is of the same Jews! John 4:22. For your information God's people are flesh like other people so whatever is applicable to the flesh will surely reflect in the lives of individuals in any religion.
But what makes the difference?

Paul admonished the church in Rome in Roman 8:13

‘For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live’.

The JW had been weighed on this scale and was found wanton both by the civil and religious authority. It is even ironic that you claim exclusive spiritual purity and yet the watchtower in the US circulated a memo advising their members never to report cases of sexual molestation to the police.

MaxInDHouse:
Well it's the presence of God's Holy Spirit in the midst of imperfect and sinful humans, they will achieve what God's promised not because all of them are perfect but due to the influence of God's Holy Spirit directing them.
That's why they will achieve God's purpose as one big and happy family of peace loving worshipers despite their individual flaws! Isaiah 2:2-4
That's why Jesus confidently said "by their FRUITS (when imperfect humans gather together for worship, what is happening in their midst will prove where God's Holy Spirit is working) you will know them" Matthew 7:16-18 compare to James 2:18-26

You are still preaching. The Bible says ‘by their fruit…’ You only preach through the good fruit you produce. You cannot be living in sexual immorality in JW and be blaming other Christian bodies that do not agree with your scriptural views.

Cases of sexual abuses covered up by the JW:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/10/former-jehovahs-witness-elders-call-for-mandatory-reporting-of-child-sexual-abuse
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51006771
https://www.oxygen.com/the-witnesses/crime-news/how-policies-of-the-jehovahs-witnesses-keep-child-sexual-abuse-from-police
https://revealnews.org/topic/jehovahs-witnesses/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2020/02/08/jehovahs-witnesses-under-investigation-pennsylvania-attorney-generals-office/2425260001/

MaxInDHouse:
So calm down my friend, what you're carrying in your head is peculiar to the flesh and we're all still in the flesh, there's no gathering of humans where you won't find individuals who are still battling with the flesh, we are only battling the flesh with what we're learning through Christ! Romans 7:21-25

May you have PEACE!

So since you know ‘WE’ are still in the flesh, why do you want to ‘monopolize’ morality and call other non-JW chrisrtians devils and idol worshippers, racist and murderers?

How many black people, Asian people and Arabs-JW are in your governing body? Mention them since white JWs in the US are not racist.

MaxInDHouse:
Your 99.99999999 are on what road? Matthew 7:13-14

Note that those on the path to life are few and they're the ones finding it, again Jesus said that those on the path to life will be recognized globally by their FRUIT {Matthew 7:16-18} they will be known as a global family of religionsts in whose gathering their is LOVE {John 13:34-35} they are no part of the world controlled by Satan the Killer so it means when Satan blows the wind of confusion leading people into killing one another {Revelations 6:3-4} Jesus' true followers will not be carried away by Satan's missiles which is racism and politics.

Well can you tell me which of your so called 99.9999999% are not into deadly dealing like racism and politics which often makes people claiming worshipers of the same God to kill one another without remorse?

For your information God's chosen people has always been a minute number in every generation of human history {Luke 17:26-27} so when faithless people are been deceived by Satan and they're not united in the same line of thought {Luke 11:23} God's own people always work together as one big and happy family of peace loving worshipers that can't be divided either by racism or politics! John 17:22

As for the topic you're the one that's hungry for righteousness so set it up and i'll come to dig out the scriptures for you but if you're OK with what you know, i'm am one of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES the one and only group having LOVE, JOY and PEACE permeating their gathering so the Jesus i know is Archangel Michael.
It's you who can't find answer to the question "Who was Jesus before his coming to the earth?"
May you have PEACE!

Sorry bro, your organization carried first in the court report for adult and child sexual molestation/abuse. It is also your organization's policy to ensure that incidents of child molestation are not reported to the public but swept under the carpet to avoid public scrutiny and lawsuits. See few links below:

https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/03/the-secret-jehovahs-witness-database-of-child-molesters/584311/
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51006771
https://www.dailyherald.com/news/20210527/trial-scheduled-for-jehovahs-witnesses-elders-accused-of-failing-to-report-sexual-abuse
https://www.inquirer.com/philly/news/jehovahs-witnesses-children-sexual-abuse-arrest-20180524.html

My JW office colleague dumped his RCCG girlfriend of 4 years, after 2 abortions, on the basis that his mother will die of heart-attack if he marries a non-JW. And this behavior is consistent with many JWs I know personally. You cannot preach self-righteousness to me while you guys are ravening wolves.

And note, in your characteristics deceptions, you guys, in your house-to-house visitation, identify yourselves as a Christian sect only to deny to be a Christian sect in your kingdom hall as other Christians organizations (over 20,000) you guys considered as false while it is only JW is true. This cognitive dissonance is only associated with a cult who sees the outside world as dangerous without looking inward the damages your organization is doing, both to yourselves and the larger society.

MaxInDHouse:
I'm still expecting you to put up a thread on the topic:

"JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES 'says Jesus is Archangel Michael' how true is this?"



The few points i gave you regarding Jesus being Archangel Michael really turned you on but i don't want the thread to become rowdy with fruitless arguments.

If truly you wants to know Jesus' real identity start your own thread, call out JWs over the matter then you will learn from Christ's true followers!

Jesus is Archangel Michael period.

Anyone who wants to challenge JWs on this should open a thread, attach JWs name and invite all Trinitarians to come and explain what they know about Jesus (Michael), let the world SEE which group truly have Jesus in their midst!

Let the world SEE how much you KNOW about Jesus, of course i will prove to you from the Bible that he is no other person than the same Archangel Michael!
I'm looking forward to it

It is not a crime if you create a topic for discussion. Thank God that 99.6% of christians do not believe in your JW nonsense.

Janosky:
Bros, did any Jew call "Yahshua" your Jesus? Did any Jew call “Yehuda" with letter "J" as your 'Jude'? Bros, your claim is invalid, reeks of double standard & hypocrisy, to say the least. Your Jesus, your Jude is the same letter "J" for JEHOVAH. JEHOVAH is valid, in the same manner you mouthing Jesus is valid.

If you read my posts very well, and have the ability to comprehend, I told you that the name ‘Jesus’ is an anglicized name for YESHUA. I also told you that the tetragrammaton YHWH was corruptibly called JEHOVAH and the corruption was amplified by the watchtower since that’s what they choose as the official name for their religious identity. The name of God as revealed to Moses at mount Sanai is not pronounce ‘Jehovah’. That your organization religiously employed it doesn’t make it right. You need not be too emotional in your ignorance.

Janosky:
Bros, Jesus speech of Mark 12:29 is a direct copy of Deuteronomy 6:4.

Unrelated and unnecessary juxtaposing.

Janosky:
John 17:6,26 Jesus says he made his Father's name known", Jesus did NOT call his Father "Lord" anywhere YHWH is in the Hebrew texts he quoted (Scriptural examples are numerous, for instance, Mark12:29 & Deuteronomy 6:4).

*Mark 12:29 is Jesus copy of Deut 6:4.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Yeshua said to him, “The first of all the commandments: 'Hear Israel, THE LORD JEHOVAH your God, THE LORD JEHOVAH, he is One.' “Jehovah or YHWH is in The Greek New Testament. YHWH is Jehovah or Yahweh, anyone is ok. Bros, Stop DECEIVING yourself.

Going by your argument, did Jesus call the father’s name JEHOVAH? Show us any evidence from any Hebrew of Greek manuscript where God is called Jehovah. The reading THE LORD JEHOVAH reeks in watchtower’s theological bias.

Janosky:
Bros, pls begin from Zech3 :1-2 (compare Judge 6:16-23, Genesis 16:7-13 ASV). Zechariah 3:1-2. American Standard Version (ASV)
1. And he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of Jehovah, and Satan standing at his right hand to be his adversary.

2. And Jehovah said unto Satan, Jehovah rebuke thee, O Satan; yea, Jehovah that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?"

Bros, in your Bible, the angel who represents Jehovah is addressed as 'Jehovah' speaking to Hagar in Genesis 16:7-13. Judges 6:16-23, the angel is also addressed as "Jehovah" speaking to Gideon. The Scriptural examples/antecedents proven that @ Zechariah 3:1-2, the angel addressed as 'Jehovah' spoke to Satan. That angel of Jehovah the Lord is Jesus Christ.
Bros, open your eyes, your mind & receive SENSE.

Where was God addressed as Jehovah in by Hagar in Genesis 16:7-13? Has God revealed his name in Genesis 16? Stop reading watchtower biases into every biblical text where God is found.

Janosky:
There was no physical struggle, rather it was a verbal dispute/argument/disagreement in both Zechariah 3:2 & Jude 1:9. The Bible lexicon for "DISPUTE" disproves your claim. Matthew 4:4-10, Jesus had a verbal dispute with Satan, no be physical struggle. @ Matthew 4:4-10, Jude 1:9 & Zechariah 3:2, Jesus (Archangel Michael deferred to Jehovah's supreme authority. (Pls check it thoroughly & confirm it yourself )
Bros, the events of Jude 1:9 when Moses died & Zechariah 3:2 occurred before Jesus earthly ministry & fulfilment of Philippians 2:5-9.Jesus Christ was exalted in Phil 2:5-9 after his death & ascension to heaven.

Bros, no dey DECEIVE yourself.

I never said there was a physical confrontation between Angel Michael and the devil in Jude 9. I said Michael couldn’t handle the situation without invoking the name of the Lord. I also try to tell you that it shows that arch-angel Michael has lesser power and authority to handle that situation and if you say that it was pre-incarnated Jesus that couldn’t handle the devil, that shows that the Jesus of the watchtower is different from the Jesus of we Christians. The Jesus of we Christians is the ‘Lord and Saviour’ who Paul evidently said he wasn’t an angel in Hebrews 1:1-10. and Philllipians 2;5-10.

5 Think of yourselves the way Christ Jesus thought of himself.

6 He had equal status with God but didn't think so much of himself that he had to cling to the advantages of that status no matter what.

7 Not at all. When the time came, he set aside the privileges of deity and took on the status of a slave, became human!

8 Having become human, he stayed human. It was an incredibly humbling process. He didn't claim special privileges. Instead, he lived a selfless, obedient life and then died a selfless, obedient death - and the worst kind of death at that: a crucifixion.

9 Because of that obedience, God lifted him high and honored him far beyond anyone or anything, ever,

10 so that all created beings in heaven and on earth - even those long ago dead and buried - will bow in worship before this Jesus Christ,

This is the Jesus and the Christ we know and not the angel who watchtower elevated to the position of ‘Lord and saviour’.

Shalom!