₦airaland Forum

BARRISTERS: true2God

there is no apology in ijawkids reply to your post,assuming cheap popularity where you dont deserve is stealing! ole oloju-rogodo!

If u r a Barrister truely both u and ur client ar already in Jail on dis matter (lol). This is not a professional way to defend a client, who after admittin an error apologized and at the same time not sure of himself whether he had met me or not.

This wat an organization had turn u guys into. A sincere xtain will apologize to his fault, swallow his pride and move on. Paul curse some1 in the scriptures and wen he was told the person he cursed is a highly placed individual he immediatelly apologized and begged for forgiveness. Are u teaching Ijawkid the right thing or a bad thing. I tot u were a genius and i am an olodo. Tufiakwa!

BARRISTERS: welldone guys! what do you expect? they are defeated in their own game! malachi 3:1 translated jesus as an angel, not in NWT but other translations has really caused confusion among them, they got nothing to offer! hear the one that called himself true2God in an effort to derail the tread was accusing JWS for nothing sake instead of facing facts, olodo-adagba-madanu!

Barrister 'the genius', the bible is not confused about the person of christ but Jw do. Can u pls compare the person of christ in Isaiah 9:6?

Ok lemme help u in ur personally induced confusion as taught u by watchtower organization:
1) Jesus was 'prophetically' called mighty God, which means he might not truly be a mighty God in real sense (isaiah 9:6)
2)Jesus was also called an messanger, the bible cant and did not give a conflictin account on a person of christ( malachi 3:1). Remember the accounts or activities of angel gabriel heralding christ coming
3) Heb 1: 8, ALL angels ar ask to worship the son compare this to isaiah 9:6, John 1:1, psalm 45: 6-7).

My question to u in the above verse is dis, as a genius u r and i, olodo, accordin to u, was the son directly called God or not? Did the father ask ALL angels to worship the son or not? Are angels made to be worshipped? If God forbade the worship of angels either by man or angels, will God ask the angels to worship the Son? Is there anywhere in the bible an angel refused worship, cos an angel, no matter hw highly placed, is not meant to be worshipped?

My guy if u cant ansa this questions dat shows u r a clown, followin the watchtower's bi-monthly hand-outs without doing ur independent assessment? If u can ansa those question i can take u a bit serios.

plappville: You are not been honest with scriptures, especially malachi 3:1!!

So i must swallow all the hand-outs from watchtower magazines before i will be honest with the scriptures. Ok lemme ask u a sincere question. Had there been any doctrine taught by watchtower before as true that they currently discard as false? Pls dnt mention xmas, birthday, new yr, easther celebrations to me. I mean bible-based doctrines.

True or false. That will guide me in answerin ur question or accusations here.

plappville: With all the scriptures presented to you, you were not able to cooment on any, all you say here is....Jesus is not archangel. Ok now tell me, do you believe Jesus Pre-existed? if yes, as what? if no, then give us scriptures as prove. Thank you.

I hope u been readin my responses so far. Which scriptures? Malachi 3:1? This verse had been trashed (read my post). I cant repeat myself.

ijawkid: You are such an insincere fellow....I had been asking questions you and some other persons refused answering,rather you keep shouting WATCHtower,kingdom hall,etc....what's your problem......??.

I had told you to juxtapose daniel 12:1-3 with all the scriptures been quoted here.....but it seems you choose to blind fold your eyes.................

What has been happening here is scriptures suPporting scriptures..............

I asked::::

....From daniel 12:1-3.....michaels(prince of Gods people) standing up for Yahwehs people during the time of the end would bring about great tribulations,and there after the ressurection and judgement of those who had died.......

1.....can you tell me if Jesus would replicate these same actions carried out by MICHAEL??
or maybe we'll be having 2 seperate captains carrying out this assignment......
2.....Has any other spirit son or messenger of GOD been given the power to ressurect and judge the dead in the last days apart from JESUS??......
3....Why does Jesus in the first place need to use the voice of the arch angel to ressurect the dead??.....why??.......
4....which other spirit son of GOD was given the power and authority to battle the arch enemy of Yahweh apart from Jesus??......
__________________________

Don't just come here shouting watchtower,use scriptures to counter these points....

The point here is dat even if i explain dis verse to u , u wont take it or learn frm it. No one is teaching me my response, no organization is tellin me a standard response format like the way dey do in ur organization. My question to u is dis, if i xplain dis verses to u will u accept it, think over it?

truthislight: its your word Gainst this:

Darby Bible Translation
Behold, I send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me; and the Lord whom ye seek will suddenly come to his temple, and the Angel of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he cometh, saith Jehovah of hosts.

So simple.

Keep fighting the bible.

if the bible is ur final authority den wat do u make of Isaiah 9:6 where the son is called the mighty God. If the bible does not conflict on dis issue and made it clear that the son is greater dan the angels and all angles (includin michael) is expected to worship him den ur argument does not hold water. Read the account of the involvement of angel gabriel on the new covenant dat broght the news to the house of zecharaiah.

Dnt pull wool over my eyes in a watchtowerly way.

ijawkid: My problem with you is you keep mentioning the NWT.....has anyone here quoted from the NWT??..........

And why shouldn't scriptures be juxtaposed to get clearer meanings to bible truths??.........

Are you saying we should stop juxtaposing??..........maybe throw away the books of the prophets that fortold about the CHRIST??.....

Smh!!!!!!........

My brother the scriptures are interpreting itself and not the watchtower.......got that??.....

Im mentioning NWT cos dat the the most 'reliable' translation available to JW. U guys believe in its authority dan other translations. True or false. Besides there are many verse whose translations are quite different frm other Bible translations. Read John 1:1 of NWT and compare it with John 1:1 of most translations. Read the account of the criminals that were crucified with christ (christ final statement to the criminal) frm other translations and compare it wit wat u hav in the NWT.dats just a tip of the ice-burg, u will get the message clearer.

ijawkid: You got it wrong my bro.......the scriptures supports all what we've been saying....malachi was quoted but you refute it.....what more do you want??............Jesus is called the angel of the testament...how is that not clear to you baffles me......

JW's believe that Jesus is subordinate to his Father anyday anytime,something you guys even in the face of glaring truths choose to deny.................we don't even need this angel michael issue to prove Jesus is less than his Father.........its all over the bible that Yahweh has no rival and that Jesus is his son and servant...............
_________________________

Jesus is a spirit messenger of GOD......if you choose to deny that ,its up to you........Jesus is a servant of GOD......its so clear........
Why this bothers you has got me worried........the trinity dogma is what you are out here to protect and not the truth...........


You keep calling the watchtower as if any watchtower journal was quoted here....not even the NWT was used....the scriptures has been interpreting itself here...........
_______________________

Sorry if I mistook you for a catholic....I thought I had seen you once on this forum support the use of images and the rosary......

Abi no be you??....confess o........

This is the issue i hav with some of u guys. U r here apologizin to me for callin me a cathlic and yet u r not sure if i am a catholic or not. Whether u hav met me somewhere on dis forum, even after tellin u i am not a cathlic yet u r not sure. Na wa 4 u ooo.

Thats the same way u guys apply to bible doctrines. U r not always sure of wat u r saying, as long as a doctrin comes frm watchtower thats wat u go for, no qualms, whether true or false. Whether the same doctrine will be de-validated as false tomorrow as soon as JW light gets brighter on dat issue.

Scroll back and read my analysis of malachi 3:1 u will see my stands on it. One messenger was to prepare the way for another messanger. One messanger comes with the spirit of Elijah (John the baptist) and the other messanger comes as a messiah (Jesus christ), filles with holy spirit. So non of the two is an angel. Dont believe lies and dnt propagate lies.

truthislight: so christ will go borrow a voice that is greater than his own when he has been made higher than all person in heaven and on earth to resurrect the dead, Abi?


Will christ need to borrow the archangels voice or the archangels voice is his own because he is the archangel?

No. The greatest voice right now is the voice of the arch angel's and it is the voice of christ not because he borrowed it but that it is his own voice.


That is the truth.

So ur argument has turn to voice. This is a straw man's argument dat holds no water biblically. All in a desperate attemp at propagatin ur 'new light' frm watchtower org, not frm the bible.

My quextion now to u is this, does watchtower ,or u, believe dat christ will come with 'the voice' of the arch angel and the dead in christ shall rise first, den the believers alive will meet the Lord in the air accordin to dat verse u've just quoted. I mean both of us only should exchange messages base on dis verse u listed up the 'voice of an arch angel' as ur meaning the voice of the son.

Boomark: @trugunn

(a) 1 Thess 4:16 - "For the Lord
himself will come down from
heaven, with a loud command,
with the voice of the archangel
and with the trumpet call of
God, and the dead in Christ will
rise first".

This shows Christ will resurrect
the dead, with ArchAngel's
voice.

So his loud command/shout cannot raise the dead? the trumpet of God also means nothing? Only the arch angels voice that suit what you want will raise the dead.

Please be sincere.

The entire verse has no place in their funny doctrine, only the 'voice of the arch angel' makes meaning to dem. If u ask any1 of dem to explain the significance of dat particular verse and the entire chapter they will start talkin funny. They wont tell u straight.

Is christ coming back to raise the dead and take the living up in the air? They will start rig-ma roaming twisting and squeezin out falsehood without independedent reasning but will start giving a tailored\programed response rehearsed frm the assembly halls. Tufiakwa!

Let them tell their ignorant members dat Jesus is arch angel Michael. Thank some of dem dat had brought that this issue with me in my house got dissapointed wen i pointed their falsehood to their face.

truthislight: lol, the bible calls Jesus angels and they are shading tires because of trinity.

What is their problem self?

They are taken hebrews out of context and have ended up contradicting the bible.

Lol. Wont you people leave the trinity alone?

*sigh*

It is the watchtower org dat is tryin to twist the simple book of hebrew dat is written in simple english, and no longer latin, for we english speakers in Nigeria and other part of the world to understand better. No one is contractin the bible but the JW, especially on dis particular issue.

Was Jesus christ called Mighty God in NWT of Isaiah 9:6 or not? Did the writter of Hebrew quoted the Father (God) calling the Son, God in Heb 1:8? Where in ur NWT was christ directly or indirectly called an angel, without jextaposin unrelated verses to support an unfounded argument? Where? But in ur Nwt the son was directly called, Mighty God.

Anyway i wont be surprised to see later publications of NWT edit Isaiah 9:6 to read an entire new and diffrent meaning (wen the light becomes more brighter). It had been done before so im expectin those changes soonest.

ijawkid: You can keep running away from the truth,but you can't hide...........

One basic reason why it would be hard for you to gulp in this truth is because of the trinity dogma.......
________________________

2 major t®anslations which is not the NWT were used to hit the nail on the head,but you keep running away from the truth....na you sabi....

When you are done worshipping and bowing down to marys image maybe you can settle down a bit to study hard.........

You talk like you regard Christ better than the JW's.........if you ever did respect and honour Christ you would desecrate each and every image and mouldings you use in worship(rosary included)........

Thats the issue, i am not a catholic. I worship with the assemlies of God church. The issue most JW hav is dat anytime their falsehood is being laid bare u guys assume its a catholic. If the indidividual tells u hes not catholic u blame 'christendom' thats the issue.

I dnt worship mary or bow to saints neither do i use rosary for prayer. I worship (the father and the son) and pray to God through the son Jesus.

Hope u go through my post, u can pick the points i highlighted, one after the other, and refute them.

Is Jesus called mighty God in ur NWT or not (isaiah 9:6) ? Did the father call the son, God in Heb 1:8 (compare psalm 45:6-7) for not? Did God command ALL to worship the son (do u worship an entity dat has no divinity?)?

The issue an average JW is the person of christ and his divinity. That the reason why watchtower org wants to shift him to 'an angel' status. Ur NWT called Jesus christ mighty Jehova in isaiah 9:6, y did they suddenly try to muddle-up uncorrelated verses to make the mighty Jehovah 'arch angel Michael'? I expected u to smell rat here but u didnt.

The issue is not bein a trinitarian. Did the Bible in any place directly called mighty God? Yes. Did the bible in any place directly or indirectly called Jesus an angel? No.

If the bible in any place called Jesus an angel either directly or indirectly pls shw me and if u cant stop accusin the catholics and face the argument squarelly.

ijawkid: Jesus being reffered to as an ANGEL does not in anyway degrade him ...........
_________________________

if you think Jesus being called an angel degrades Him,how about Jesus being reffered to as the HIGH PRIEST if Yahweh......how about Jesus being reffered to as Yahwehs apostle......how about Jesus being reffered to as Yahwehs servant.....

Right now as we speak Jesus is a servant of YAHWEH..........

""Servant"" is a title we all bear(including) Jesus except Yahweh who is over all......

As far as the scriptures is concerned Jesus remains a messenger of Yahweh......and nothing SPOIL,,,,,,,

Jesus was called 'the son Mary in the Bible (dats not degarding, cos he became a little lower dan the angels here to suffer death for evryman as fulfilment of the scriptures), that was wen he was in the flesh. He called himself 'the son of man' (dats not degradin as well) in many occasions durin his earthly ministry. A begger called him 'the son of David' (dats not degrading too). But he asked he disciples who they taught of him and Peter replied ' u r the son of the living God'. Flesh and blood did not reveal this to Peter but the spirit of God did.

The spiritual hierachy in the salvation of man lies in the father (God almighty), the son (Jesus christ) and the holy spirit. Go ye into all the world and prach the gospel to evrybody baptizin dem in the name of the father, and of the son and of the holy spirit (matthew 28:19 )

The point here is dis, dat the son was made a little lower dan the angel (philipian 2:6-end), is a humble price he had to pay for the salvation of mankind. Thats not to say God did not ask 'all angels to worship him' in his glory in heaven. Being 'lower dan the angels' was wen he put on the form of a man to save man frm their sins. So get it right here.

So there is nowhere Jesus was referref to, or regarded, as an angel. But to avoid muddlung things up, we can take ur verse, where watchtower claimed Jesus as an angel , an analyse it one after the other.

Hold while i take up the verses u guys had qouted and do my independent analysis devoid of organizational\official interpretation\misinterpretation.

BARRISTERS: @plappvile



you see arrogance? question dey answer question! that is an evidence that they have nothing to hold on again than 'arrogance'.

even 'frosbel' has ran out of gas completely with his advantage of freethinking could not reply my last question above,while i have answerd his,this is due to the fact that he ignored bible warning....''do not lean on your own understanding''prov 3:5 frosbel says noo, i must lean on my own underatanding to my own advantage. he con enter gbege!

The person of chrsit had never been ambigous. There is nowhere the Bible assumed or called the person of Jesus an angel but a watchtower interpretation\belief instilled on their members without any right to question its authority. It is only a watchtower desperation to erase the divinity of christ, the light is gettin brighter falsehood.

Now my questions are:
Can any angel worship angel? No.
Were all angels asked to worship the Son? Yes (Heb 1:6. U cant worship someone with no divinity)

Did God at anytime make a vow or decree to ANY angel 'u r my Son, this day hav i beggotten u'? No.
Did God at anytine decreed Jesus as his Son? Yes (Psalm 2:7, Heb 1:5, psalm 110:5)

Is any angel the brightness image of God's glory and express image of God's person. Non
Is christ the brightness image of God's glory and express image of God's person? Yes (Heb 1:3, John 1:14, John 14:9, col 1: 17)

Did the father call any of the angels God or Mighty God? No
Did the father call the Son God or mighty God? Yes (isaiah 9:6, 1tim 3:16, Heb 1:9, psalm 4: 6,7)

To WHICH OF THE ANGELS did God say at anytime (angel michael inclusive, cos simple english WHICH OF THE ANGELS simply means ALL ANGELS) 'sit at my right hand till i make ur enemy thy footstool? None
Did God ask the Son to sit at his right hand? Yes (Heb 1:13, psalm 110:1)

The issue here is not Barrister, truthislight,ijawkid, etc. The issue is the watchtower organization dat brought this brainwashment and muddlin together incoherent and unrelated verses to muddle-up simple and plain bible teachin. Angel michael played his role in the scriptures, especially among the isrealites and prophets of old. Arch angel michael is still an angel just as an accountant general is still an accountant. The repeated assertion, by the wriiter of hebrew, 'TO WHICH OF THE ANGELS' is a simple collective for the words 'All the angels' (no exception). The writer was plain enof and in a simple term that all angels (arch angel michael inclusive) to worship the Son. A honest person who do not want to be deliberatelt deceived by any organization will understand this simple english. Neither do i think there is any rule of exception here.

If any1 of u guys go out today or to orrow for a publishin work, open the book of Hebrews chapter 1 for the person and ask him to read it indepednetly without usin the watchtower magaine, then ask the person if the son is an angel or not and get his\her response.

The issue of 'jesus christ the arch angel michael' fallasy can only be bought by a gullible mind who closed the Bible frm himself and open the watchtower magazine as an alternative. Cos no unadulterated truth can come out of the watchtower magazine, it will keep changing (light will continue getter brighter in falsehood)

plappville: See me see @true2god ooooo, what "research"? So you no dey read those scriptures posted since morning?

You den already see scripture interprets itself severally, wetin you want from me again?
Ok, i go answer your "yes or no", but go answer those questions you have been ignoring, if you want a direct answer from me.

U dnt seem to want to say 'Yes, Jesus christ is an angel'. Thats the dilenma, but u can muddle-up unrelated verse to say Jesus christ is arch angel Michael. But if i put it up to u to giv a direct response by simply sayin 'Jesus is an angel' u wnt want to say dat.

The point here is dat if JW comes up with the latest publication that says 'Jesus is not angel michael' u wll naturally change ur perception on dis belief. Thats not an independent way of reasoning, basing ones interpretation of the bible on an organization that hav made differnt changes in their doctrine or belief (the light gettin brighter fallacy).

If watchtower had published many articles earlier that r presently being considerd false or mistake (by the same watchtower), what gives u the impression dat there is no current belief they held that is false? U dnt seem to knw the history of watchtower my sister. From failed prophecies to change in doctrinal belief. My question to u again is, 'is Jesus christ an angel'? U can do me a favour by bein straight about it.

plappville: Ma broda/sister, i still need you to explain those previews scriptures directed to you.
Why ignoring them

Thats not the ansa to my question. Frm ur 'research' and conclusion is Jesus chris an angel? Yes or no. I dnt think this simple question is in anyway ambigous.

BARRISTERS: @Boomark

i think you are not thinking that i refer to john as an angel? pls i dont,for clarity sake

@ Barrister, pls i need u tell the whole world reading your long post so far, is Jesus christ an angel? Please answer yes or no.

Thank u.

BARRISTERS: @true2God
not even one bible quoted but whining and whining and whining Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah;

Enof Bible verses hav been quoted on the earlier post. Dont turn a blind eye on them. Dnt close the holy Bible from me to read to open the watchtower magazines for me to read.

truthislight: .

U dnt seem to have any response, i wonder hw u will comport ursef next time wen telling ur 'prospects' dat ur JW Jesus is angel michael. I want to believe u will do a better 'research' independent of some lies being fed frm watchtower magazines.

Oahray: Hahahaha... @true2god, your comment reeks of hate and voluntary ignorance.
Ever taken time to investigate the history and beliefs of your roman catholic church?
Talk about pot calling kettle black. No kee me with laugh abeg.

That is the issue, any1 dat goes against JW's lies is a catholic. Even if an atheist goes against JW lies he is a catholic.

Is it logical?

free123: @Barrister
i can understand ur frustration seeing the fallacy u peddled for long being exposed in the light of the truth. It is a shame that anyone with different view from ur falsehood u lump same together with catholics. I got tired reading the nonsense u spewed above. Do u think lengthy and incoherent falsehood wins a case?
Quoting scriptures for u is a waste of time seeing that u have swallowed every bit of rubbish from watchtower and that will not allow u to see that Jesus Christ is not angel Michael even from d falsehood u peddle.
Last question for falsehood peddlers - where in ur own version of the bible is Jesus Christ called Archangel Michael?

@plapp
Jesus existed as God and exists as God. Numerous scriptures attest to that

All the long post by Barrister is to support the apologetic watch-tower of which they are trademarked with, changin doctrines yr after yr calin it 'light is gettin brighter' and an educated mind will buy dis fallacy. Tufiakwa! God forbid.

This 'arch angel michael' falacy was not even associated with their foundin fathers, either Russel or Rutherford (dat does not however exonorate them as master Bible twister to support their devilsh doctrines).

The book of Hebrew chapter one is enof to nullify all watchtower lies wrt this topic. Arch-angel is still an angel. To the Jw Jesus christ is an angel, pure and simple. And going by Jw doctrine, God did not create anything but Jesus (or arch angel michael accordong to Jw), an arch angel michael created all other things (accordin to jw). Invariably, accordin to watchtower, it was arch angel Mivhael that created angel Gabriel and all other angels. Angel Michael also created the heaven and the earth, acccordin to jw theology, since God did not create anything but the son.

I am highly disapointed dat someone, presumably informed, will be fed will lies and he wil swallow it hook, line and sinker and will even go ahead defending lies.

As i posted earlier, Jw belongs to the category of mormonism, eckanker, the grail messenger, the christian science, and some other occult group portrayin themselves as xtains.

Any organization that does not believe in the atonement of sin through the shed blood of christ, that christ is the savior of mankind from sin, that christ (not watchtower org) is the only mediator between mankind (and not 144,000 pple as taught by watchtower) and God , that all angels are commanded to worship the son (jesus, cos even men are not to worship angels, let alone angels worshipping angel). That organization is watchtower.

Anyone can continue worshiping or adoring or paying obeisance (according to new world translation) to arch angel Michael. Surely watchtower arch angel Michael is not the christian Jesus. That shows that watchtower is servin another master quite diffenrnt frm Jesus.

fashime: Nigeria home of arsenal nawaooo

Who is the coach na?

truthislight: what evidence have you presented on this thread other than the emotional shouting that you keep on making?

Lol.

Have you put forward any scriptural evidence to warrant me to change my views? No.

I follow what the bible says strictly and not man or tradition.

You have no evidence to the contrary other than the contradictions and lies you have been dishing out here.

You dont have even a grasp for basic bible knowledge and you keep occupying space.

I am getting fed up of replying you.

If you cant present bible passages hence, i will have to be more judicious with my time and ignore you.

Again, error there, Jesus christ is not the alpha and Omega.



thats ^^^ not true.

I had said that the only reason that stand on the way of the evidence here is the trinity dogma.

Guy, leave the trinity alone and it will leave you.

You are having a lot of pains right now, not from Yahweh but from "trinity"

wishing you well.
Peace

No one is havin any pain here. No one will either buy ur Jesus christ the angel Michael idea from ur watchtower magazine, not from the Bible.

Think for ursef once and stop dependin on evry hand-out given to u by JW, whether true or false. Its a pity that if Jw tomorrow tells u dat Jesus is no longer angel michael but someone else u will equally change belief.

Jw as a sect is satanic who comes in sheep clothing but is a ravellin wolve and its unfortunate u'v gone too deep to see anythin wrong with a false xtain cult.

Hav u seen watchtower magazine criticizng the church of the latter-day saint (mormonism), the grail, eckancker? No. They all belong to the same cult but in a slightly differnt dimension.

I'm not lettin u understand the dangers in Jw, cos u hav had enof exposure on it, but for others who might come across this thread as a novice in their activity. JW is not a xtain organization but a cult hidin under the umbrella of xtainity.

truthislight: Lol, what do we have the bible for!

The bible says that the fallen angels are reserved for judgement.

Go and read your bible again.
Lol.

Must i go get the scriptures for you that is claiming to be a christ for you to know this truth?

That it is the falling angels that will be judge and not Yahweh's holy angels.
*sigh*

Wat gives the impression dat after the fall of satan (together with some angels, now demons) no other angel(s) has erred again? This is a matter dat both of us cannot be privy of. Remember that the angels dat came down to earth to mate with human-beings(dat produces giants in those days) erred after the fall of satan and were equally condemned.

I believe u understand wat i mean, and u can seek confirmation frm the elders.


Let not deviate from from this thread, do u still share the watch-tower belief dat our Lord Jesus christ, the mighty God, the prince of peace, the everlastin father (isaiah 9:6), the alpha and omega, the first and the last is also arch-angel Michael. I knw u will need an official confirmation from watch-tower before u can take ur decision on dis matter irrespectiv of wat the bible says.

Do u believ the bible at all or the watch-tower magazines? I really cant understand dis unabated loyalty to falsehood.

truthislight: Lol, what do we have the bible for!

The bible says that the fallen angels are reserved for judgement.

Go and read your bible again.
Lol.

Must i go get the scriptures for you that is claiming to be a christ for you to know this truth?

That it is the falling angels that will be judge and not Yahweh's holy angels.
*sigh*

Wat gives the impression dat after the fall of satan (together with some angels, now demons) no other angel(s) has erred again? This is a matter dat both of us cannot be privy of. Remember that the angels dat came down to earth to mate with human-beings(dat produces giants in those days) erred after the fall of satan and were equally condemned.

I believe u understand wat i mean, and u can seek confirmation frm the elders.

plappville: Just see how you dey display ur ignorance, are you scared of knowing the truth? if no, then hear others out. You are missing up things yourself just listen to the ♪ till the end if u want to get the message!

Ignorace? Do u knw the meaning? I hav studied with JW and i believed u knw im not ignorant.

U r just kidding here.

truthislight: dont mind him.

It is not only tru2god that is reading this thread, if you have something to contribute go ahead and dont mind him.

He is like a pregnant woman that wants to deliver all the falsehood he has been impregnated(fed) with, that is why he is screaming like a pregnant woman.

If he likes let him learn.

The JW that he is talking about and him who have more love for christ as to imitate christ ways and actions and command/teachings?

Just leave him.
Peace

My mind is not programmed to believe anything without cursory examination of its content, just as wont accept any food whether it is poisonus or good for my health.

The same thing applicable to my spiritual life, i cant open my mind and spirit to be feed all manners of doctrine without examining the scripture. The JW cant blind-fold my eyes from the bible(the unchanging word of God) and open my eyes to read from watch-tower(the continously changin word of man, the light getting brighter).

Hope u get me right.

truthislight: when i had said "your limitation" in my last post i never knew how limited in knowledge you are and i never knew how right i was until this your post.

See what you said :



now what has Yahweh's holy angels done wrong that they need to be judge? Nothing!

And the judgement awaiting angels is not for them since they have been with the archangel in battling satan and will come with christ to execute Yahweh's judgement at the end. Rev. 12 and Rev. 19:11 down.

The truth is, the angels that will be judge are the fallen angels that are now called demons.

This are the angels that foresook their original position and came to earth to take up the daughters of men as wives in Noah's day, and dematerialise during the flood to head back to heaven but were bared from entering heaven and left in tatarus.

You see your life? You are finished, completely misled and now a novice of what Yahweh's plans are.

Now you need my sympathy cus it is not a deliberate action but an action driven by ignorance that is blinding you from the truth of God's word.

Do you now see why you should cool down and read the bible and not just follow the lies that has been fed you all along?

Well, you can either take my advice or you continue with this folly.

Anyway, it was good that you spoke out, if not, how will we have come to know the fraud that you had taken in all this while?

Another fraud you need to run from is the trinity.
Anyway, keep reading the bible.
Peace.

The bible did not specify whether they r fallen angels. Neither did the Bible say man will judge principalities. What the Bible says is that human will judge angels, so dnt start ur twist again, and obviosly arch angel michael is also an angel under this category. Read the verse and quoted earlier on dis again.

Oahray: #smh... Maybe I should stop.
@true2god, the reason for threads like this is not to win arguments or make yourself the sole righteous person there is. There are people out there who hunger for the truth. Its as simple as stating your beliefs with bible backing. The Bible is the authority, not any church. At least the Jehovah's witnesses show you from the Bible. Do you bother to listen and reason from the Bible? No. Because you have your mind all made up already.
For once in a thread, I thought I was dealing with people mature enough to consider evidence before ranting away in a show of fanaticism. I was wrong. I guess I just do that some other time, or in another thread, as my reason for contributing isnt simply to win any argument.
Any lover of truth will examine his beliefs carefully.
Peace.

Where was it stated in your bible dat Jesus christ is angel michael?

truthislight: what value have you added to this thread with this ^^^?

Is this thread about JW?

Is this post above what you can add as a rational comment?

Go resolved your issues with JW, this thread is exclusively a bible based debate.

Peace

This thread is indirectly about JW erroneos teachin dat the lord Jesus is angel Michael, mumblin wrong verses together dat doesnt support their error thereby leadin pple astray.

Nobody has any issue with JW cos they are already knwn for their changing doctrines whenever they feel the need to do so (the light gettin brighter syndrom).

So stop defending an organization well knwn for making false prediction, changing Bible doctrine often sayin the light is gettin brighter, sayin falsely they r the most hated sect in the whole world (to gain credibility, cos even al-quada and the talibans are some of the most hated world-wide. Hw many JW has been executed in the last 20 yrs and hw many al-quada members?), ignorin or refuting the Jewish holocaust and technically trying to replace it with sufferin of JW in WW2 (almost all the editions of watch-tower attest to dis propaganda) and many more.

So it's all about ur organization falsehood, thats the issue pple hav with Jw.

Jesus is not an angel, cos this insult\falsehood frm watch-tower is gettin irredeemable.

truthislight: your error is as a result of a limitation due to trinity.

And you dont know who and angel is.

Again, you dont get the sense of that Hebrews.

You may have to go read the whole of the thread again with an open mind.

Take note. The trinity is not a bible teaching.

I hope u read my post before commenting. Nowhere in the new testament the bible writers of matthew, mark, luke John and the apostles who wrote the epistles made reference to Jesus as as arch angel Michael. Non and nowhere. Any contrary doctrine is a straw man doctrin trying to shift the person of Jesus to an angel. Do u knw that human beings will judge angels, includin arch angel Michael, on the last day (1 cor 6:3)? It is in the scriptures.

In order word humans bein will Judge Jesus also,a.k.a, your angel Michael. Do u knw that human beings are related equal with angels? Where do u get ur doctrines and who is feeding u lies without questioning?

Wat u guys are sayin (callin Jesus angel michael) is not differnt frm one yoruba man callin His jesus 'Jesu oyingbo'. If your Jesus, watchtower Jesus, is angel Michael den the Jesus u r servin is like 'jesu oyingbo', which is quite different from my Jesus.

My Jesus is:
1) the mighty God, Isaiah 9:6
2) the prince of peace, Isaiah 9:6
3) the everlastin father, isaiah 9:6
4) the alpha and omega, rev 1:17-20
5) the Word made flesh, John 1:14
6) the creator, John 1:10
7) the Lion of the tribe of Judah
the root and offspring of David
9) the bright and morning star
10) the great teacher
11) the express image of the father
12) the 'son of God'
13) the future judge of the world
14) the image of the invisible God and the 1st born of all creation, colosian 1:15
15) God manifestation in the flesh, 1timothy 3:16.
16) Emmanuel, God be with us
17) the savior of man-kind from sin
18) the way, the truth and the life
19) the one in whose name all knee must bow
20) the baptizer with the Holy spirit, John baptizes with water.

If your Jesus does not meet any of these basic requirement den it is quite obvios that the Jesus watch-tower, or u ,is preachin is different from the Jesus of the Bible. And frm my observation, usin this thread it is now clearer that Jesus of the christians is differnet from Jesus of the Jehova's witnessses. Cos Jesus of the Jehova witness is arch angel Michael while the Jesus of the christians is the alpha and omega, the first and last, the prince of peace, the everlastin father and the mighty God (Isiaiah 9:6).

Oahray: So far one of the best threads I have seen on Nairaland. Too bad I didnt stumble upon it on time. Its funny how there is one Bible, yet many interpretations. Reason, some people have a set doctrine in mind even before they open their bibles. The trinity doctrine being one of them. No one who believes the that Jesus is equal with his God and Father would even be willing to accept any contrary idea. I appreciate the efforts of all that participated, especially those who let scripture answer scipture.

I must say I am impressed with truthislight, plappvile, ijawkid, barrister for their sound bible-based contributions.

The major issue with Frostbel is how the conviniently ignores things stated in the Bible, when it doesnt support his view. I read the many scriptures posted to you on the issue of pre-existence, and I think you are fighting the bible.

Ubenedictus and the other trinitarians, I see your position. If I believed in the trinity, which I do not, the idea of Jesus being the same as Michael would sound blasphemous to me.

Pastormustwacc, nice thread.

I think I have a few things to add too.

We r not talkin about the pre-existence of christ here, of course the Bible attested to his pre-existence (b4 abraham was, I AM). One thing that baffled me here is after readin the book of Hebrew chapter 1 someone still hav a small wit to twist the Bible to suit an organiztional interpretation dat Jesus is arch-angel Micahel. Thats really pathetic!

There is no where the Bible called, imagined, portrayed Jesus as angel Michael. This is a simple lie that enamates from the devil and any organization that represents him on earth.

Heb 1:4 (Jesus was made so much better than the angels)

Heb 1:5 (the father called only Jesus the only begotten, it was not said to any angel, even angel Michael)

Heb 1: 6 (God commanded all angels to worship jesus, i mean all, incudin angel Michael)

Heb 1:8-12 ( God attributed divinity attributes to Jesus)

Heb 1:13-14(God exalted Jesus christ to 'sit at his right hand'). We all knw wat a right hand man/person means in a power structure.

Rev 1:17-20 (Jesus is the 1st and the last, the one dat lives and was dead and alive forever and has the key of hell and death)

Rev 22:12-13,16(Jesus is coming to reward evryman accordin to his work. He is the alpha and omega,not angel michael, the beginning and the end. The first and last. Jesus gave the revelations to John to testify to the churches things dat must come to pass. He is the 'root and offspring of david', the 'bright and morning star'

The person of Jesus bears no ambiguity. Arch angel michael, like other angels, is a ministring spirit unto the churches. Both Jesus and Michael are two diffrent and saparate entities. Jesus christ is the one that became a man, through whose death brought salvation to whoever belives on his name.

He is the savior who shed his blood for the remission of sins. He was obedient unto the father even unto his death. The reason God exalted him and gave him a name above evry name, that in his name evry knee must bow (in prayer). He has the power to save, heal and forgive sins.

God sent him because he loves the world and anyone that believes in him will not perish but have evelasting life (john 3:16). Anyone dat believes in Jesus will not perish, that is wat the Bible says. ALL power has been given unto Jesus both on earth and in heaven(MATTHEW 28:18). All power was not given to arch angel Michael.

Enough of dis misinterpretation and blasphemy
and twistin of the scriptures to support an unfounded and false doctrine.