₦airaland Forum

MrPresident1:
Easy on the pedal bro, if you are willing we can come to agreement on these things. forgive my choice of words but your major challenge is that you are unable to make the critical transition to the figurative understanding of the Holy Scriptures. You are still battling with literal interpretations.

If you are willing, I can point the way for you...

Yes, the understanding of the scriptures needs help, but we human are material/Literal/Physical persons and the Bible is a physical book that can be understood with proper study and inquisitiveness.

Don't go all spiritual Here.

Especially, the questions he posted are literal question that demand patience and consistency in researching the relationship.

If you say that God gave his word to man and did not make it literal/physical, you are excusing those that have never been diligent and patient in researching the scriptures for them to say it was never there for them to see.

There is no way a sinner can be all spiritual before they can read the Bible be for they can understand.

Peace

frosbel2:
The forged and fabricated ending of Mark which was not in the original manuscripts ;

"Now when he rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had cast out seven demons. She went and told those who had been with him, as they mourned and wept. But when they heard that he was alive and had been seen by her, they would not believe it. After these things he appeared in another form to two of them, as they were walking into the country. And they went back and told the rest, but they did not believe them. Afterward he appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at table, and he rebuked them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who saw him after he had risen. And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover. So then the Lord Jesus, after he had spoken to them, was taken up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God. And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them and confirmed the message by accompanying signs - Mark 16:9-19 "

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/BSNIEj2-oDY/hqdefault.jpg

Rationally, the above is how an argument should be made, with verifiable evidence for and against and not just based on emotions like the below.

when you assumed you always have all the facts and whatever you say on the issues is final, such leads to the below post.

You acted in this manner as the below on another thread postulating that the OT in no place mentioned nor prophesy about the coming of the Messiah to die for man. I belief the proof was shown to you, but you forgot to come back and concede to the contrary.

The Post below should be presented as a question and evidences for the motion properly presented and all the scriptures posted for all to see.

While some people did have similar questions in the past, they rather "kept on asking and knocking". At least, that was what i did.

frosbel2:
The Gospel of Matthew is full of outright Lies , a lot of it's content is shamelessly fabricated.

Examples :

Virgin birth - all made up and prophetic reference to Isaiah 7:14 has nothing to do with Jesus. This was fulfilled in Isaiah 8 and had nothing to do with a virgin birth, besides the original word in Hebrew for the concocted new testament virgin is young woman and not virgin.

Genealogy of Jesus - all made up, God promised in the old testament that the Messiah will not come through Jehoiachin whose family was cursed, yet he was mentioned in Matthew

Resurrection of saints - Matthew 27:53 - Nonsense, this never happened. For such a major event there is no contemporary historic source to validate this myth

More to come..........

Am not here to say that evil men never tampered with the bible nor am i saying that copyist never made mistakes while carrying out their job, rather, I am saying, where we have such, it is there for all to see and certain ancient manuscripts have resurfaced to help restore and correct the manipulations and errors.

Show more patience in researching and praying, it sure does help.

Peace.

PastorAIO:
Well, I'm sorry, but 'my logic' does not say what you claim it says.

I am not astonished that you are quickly deserting that which was given to you in the grace of Rationality and turning to a different logic. (verse 7) Not that there is even a different Logic, But something is disturbing you and causing you to leave the Logic of Rationality. (vs8) even if I or even an angel from heaven should teach you any Logic contrary to the one that you received let him be cursed. (9) I don talk am o, and I even fit talk am again... (10) If anyone should teach you another logic other than the innate one that you received then let him be cursed.

But You said that "I AM THAT I AM" is a mere

PastorAIO:
de-acronymising it

Implying that it does not mean a thing nor is it spectacular? Even thought that is the first name Yahweh gave to Moses. SMH.
You are teaching me something. Lol.

.

PastorAIO:
Well, I'm sorry, but 'my logic' does not say what you claim it says.

I am not astonished that you are quickly deserting that which was given to you in the grace of Rationality and turning to a different logic. (verse 7) Not that there is even a different Logic, But something is disturbing you and causing you to leave the Logic of Rationality. (vs8) even if I or even an angel from heaven should teach you any Logic contrary to the one that you received let him be cursed. (9) I don talk am o, and I even fit talk am again... (10) If anyone should teach you another logic other than the innate one that you received then let him be cursed.

But You said that "I AM THAT I AM" is a mere

PastorAIO:
de-acronymising

You are teaching me something. Lol.

PastorAIO:
I'm pretty sure that the mistakes are all human.

The mistakethat am talking about that Yahweh made is curtsy of AIO.

PastorAIO:
you forgot that YHWH was mentioned in Exodus 3 too. He didn't wait till Exodus 6 before mentioning YHWH.

Not just Yahweh, but I AM THAT I AM was mentioned in chapter 3.

Exodus 3:13-15

King James Version (KJV)
13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM thath sent me unto you.
15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

And one of the names is explaining something about the bearer unlike the YHWH. Meaning that what he was actually doing to Moses there has to do with explaining More about himself. Definitely, I AM THAT I AM contains more in it than YHWH. Has he ever before introduced himself like That? I AM THAT I AM? Nope!

And he said that I AM THAT I AM will be his name for ever.

Call it Acronym or not, it does not change a thing.

PastorAIO:
Exodus 3
15 God also said to Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel: ‘YHWH, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations.

So, NO, he didn't forget his name.

Is the above only what you saw in chapter 3 of Exodus? SMH. You did not see verses 14 before the 15 you quoted?

See it below from Kingjames version:


Exodus 3:13-15

King James Version (KJV)
13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM thath sent me unto you.
15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.


AND

Exodus 6:1-3
6 So Jehovah said to Moses: “Now you will see what I will do to Pharʹaoh A mighty hand will force him to send them away, and a mighty hand will force him to drive them out of his land.”+2 Then God said to Moses: “I YHWH. 3 And I used to appear to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as God Almighty,+but with regard to my name YHWH I did not make myself known to them.

*Edited*

Endeavor to stay on point please.

PastorAIO:
3)so Yahweh did not have to forget his name. He was just de-acronymising it.
Like some people say Olodumare is the owner of the Odu that progresses. Olu Odu mare.
Etc

Yeah! Whatever you say.

I see the "de-acronymising", as long as you are the one that stated it i have no further option than to accept whatever you said.

Meanwhile, have another look at the de-acronymising" below again at this two instances:

Exodus 3:13-15

King James Version (KJV)
13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM thath sent me unto you.
15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

AND

Exodus 6:1-3
6 So Jehovah said to Moses: “Now you will see what I will do to Pharʹaoh A mighty hand will force him to send them away, and a mighty hand will force him to drive them out of his land.”+2 Then God said to Moses: “I YHWH. 3 And I used to appear to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as God Almighty,+but with regard to my name YHWH I did not make myself known to them.
................................................................................................................................................................................................


So, "I AM THAT THAT I AM" is an acronym for Yahweh right?

LOL.

Must I agree with the above?
You must be thinking that I accept any thing any magician pulls out from his hat.

No Yahweh means I AM THAT I AM , no need to try to change the obvious.

PastorAIO:
Please a question remains without an answer.

How did YHWH demonstrate his name to the Israelites that wasn't before witnessed.? What great plague did he wreak on pharaoh that he hadn't wreaked on him before? After all even the plagues sef, he had already done that during the time of abram on account of Sarai.

Exodus 3:20

So I will have to stretch out my hand and strike Egypt with all my extraordinary acts that I will do in it, and after that he will send you out.[/color]

Am not the one that said that what he will do to the Egyptians and Pharaoh will be extraordinary acts, Yahweh said so himself.

truthislight:
Am not particular about winning argument when it comes to the Bible but to make sure i get it right.

With the above arrangement, I can only conclud that Yahweh made some mistakes In either Exodus 3:15 or Exodus 6:3 as regard knowing the pronunciation of his name or the way it sounds and if it is one word or a phrase.

Going by your Logic that is.

Peace

*Edited*

I Edited this above to include the red.

truthislight:
I don't see why you are finding it had to see what the JW Explanation is saying. That was not my argument initially, but going through that write up, it became very apparent what they were saying.

They are saying that the message of Exodus 6:3 is about the meaning of Jehovah and not literally the introduction of the name. The same book of Exodus interpolated the name Jehovah with the Phrase 'I AM', and this two is used interchangeably as a name to the same person.

Again. when Yahweh was asked by Moses what he is to tell to Pharaoh and the children of Israel he told him to tell them that he is "I AM THAT I AM" and that this is his name for ever and ever. Did Yahweh forgot his "name" As being Yahweh There? (Exodus 3:13-15)

At what point then will his name be changed again from "I AM THAT I AM" to Jehovah considering that the name I AM THAT I AM" is to be his name that will last for ever and ever?

I accepted that explanation because it is logical and shades light to why he had earlier rather given explanation to Moses Initially and that the initial I AM THAT I AM is a name and when he later mention Yahweh in Exodus 6:3, He was reffering to his name I AM THAT THAT I AM. Meaning that the two names means the same thing and that meaning is what Moses is to take to both Pharaoh and the Israelite's.

If you don't see it hence, you have to explain why Yahweh presented his name as the sequence below:




Exodus 3:13-15

King James Version (KJV)
13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.


Exodus6:1-3
6 So Jehovah said to Moses: “Now you will see what I will do to Pharʹaoh.+ A mighty hand will force him to send them away, and a mighty hand will force him to drive them out of his land.”+2 Then God said to Moses: “I am Jehovah. 3 And I used to appear to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as God Almighty,+but with regard to my name Jehovah+ I did not make myself known to them.


Peace

Am not particular about winning argument when it comes to the Bible but to make sure i get it right.

With the above arrangement, I can only conclud that Yahweh made some mistakes In either Exodus 3:15 or Exodus 6:3 as regard knowing the pronunciation of his name or the way it sounds and if it is one word or a phrase.

Going by your Logic that is.

Peace

*Edited*

PastorAIO:
Please address the parts that I bolded and highlighted in red. They are the basis of this interpretation and they are all obviously speculations.



Really? What about when Jacob asked the very same question?

29 Then Jacob asked him, “Please tell me your name.” But he said, “Why is it that you ask my name?” And there he blessed him.
Genesis 32

What were the circumstances of Israel when Jacob asked that same question? What about the fact that in those ancient times to know the name of a god was considered as having the power to summon the god?

Now the Majesty of Ra was the creator of heaven and earth, of gods, men, and cattle, of fire, and the breath of life; and he ruled over gods and men. And Isis saw his might, the might that reached over heaven and earth, before which all gods and men bowed; and she longed in her heart for that power, that thereby she should be greater than the gods and have dominion over men.

There was but one way to obtain that power. By the knowledge of his own name did Ra rule, and none but himself knew that secret name. Whosoever could learn the secret, to that one—god or man—would belong the dominion over all the world, and even Ra himself must be in subjection. Jealously did Ra guard his secret, and kept it ever in his breast, lest it should be taken from him, and his power diminished.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/ael/ael13.htm


A true name is a name of a thing or being that expresses, or is somehow identical to, its true nature. The notion that language, or some specific sacred language, refers to things by their true names has been central to philosophical study as well as various traditions of magic, religious invocation and mysticism (mantras) since antiquity.
The ancient Jews considered God's true name so potent that its invocation conferred upon the speaker tremendous power over His creations. To prevent abuse of this power, as well as to avoid blasphemy, the name of God was always taboo, and increasingly disused so that by the time of Jesus their High Priest was supposedly the only individual who spoke it aloud — and then only in the Holy of Holies upon the Day of Atonement.[5]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_name

These are facts about the attitude of ancient people to names. Even in yoruba till this day they believe that if you can know the true Oriki of an object you will access all the powers inherent in the objects. These names form the incantations which are used to prepare herbs and various objects for various uses.

Now if the people of Israel already knew the name 'Jehovah' and Moses was told to tell them that 'jehovah' sent him then what a nonsense to say that Elohim or Adonai 'would not have meant much to them'. It wouldn't have meant anymore or anyless than Jehovah which they knew a long time already.


Yet in all this you haven't demonstrated how Jehovah changed after he revealed his name to Moses. What did he do thereafter that he hadn't done before. Did he kill more people than he killed in the flood? Did he confuse the languages of the Whole world tenfold? Did he make a barren woman have children, like Sarah? What exactly did he do that reflects the name Jehovah that he hadn't done before?


Now, on the name Jehovah, your write up now demonstrates a willingness to go against the entirety of Theology just to wriggle out of this tight spot.
You have now resorted to making God a temporal Creature. Subject to time like everything else. you changed 'I Am' to 'I am becoming'. Either the writer is theologically and philosophically daft or he is just trying to be disingenuous. Talkng about the relation of the verb Ehyer to Hayah. These are just tenses. They are related the same way Running is related to Ran, or Will Run. Past tense, present tense, future tense, Present continuous.... etc.

That is not the idea that the name represents to Jews, certainly not to Jesus. To become means that you are evolving. You become what you were not yesterday. I become great means that I wasn't great before. Becoming occurs in time/temporally so in order for Jehovah to become he has to be subject to Time. This idea transcends the Hebrew language and can be translated into other languages ( so there is no hiding behind any fake hebrew ha'yah, which is actually the past tense ). In fact it is translated to Greek in the New Testament.

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
John 8:58

'I am' in Greek is Ego Eimi. Jesus did not say before Abraham I am becoming. The idea is that he transcends time, this is Jesus' understanding of the name of God but then if you feel you know more than Jesus in this matter I cannot hold you.

The joke inside is that some people like Muttleylaff who isn't even a JW will jump on the bandwagon because he thinks that it is a way out of the cesspit that he has dug himself into.

I don't see why you are finding it had to see what the JW Explanation is saying. That was not my argument initially, but going through that write up, it became very apparent what they were saying.

They are saying that the message of Exodus 6:3 is about the meaning of Jehovah and not literally the introduction of the name. The same book of Exodus interpolated the name Jehovah with the Phrase 'I AM', and this two is used interchangeably as a name to the same person.

Again. when Yahweh was asked by Moses what he is to tell to Pharaoh and the children of Israel he told him to tell them that he is "I AM THAT I AM" and that this is his name for ever and ever. Did Yahweh forgot his "name" As being Yahweh There? (Exodus 3:13-15)

At what point then will his name be changed again from "I AM THAT I AM" to Jehovah considering that the name I AM THAT I AM" is to be his name that will last for ever and ever?

I accepted that explanation because it is logical and shades light to why he had earlier rather given explanation to Moses Initially and that the initial I AM THAT I AM is a name and when he later mention Yahweh in Exodus 6:3, He was reffering to his name I AM THAT THAT I AM. Meaning that the two names means the same thing and that meaning is what Moses is to take to both Pharaoh and the Israelite's.

If you don't see it hence, you have to explain why Yahweh presented his name as the sequence below:




Exodus 3:13-15

King James Version (KJV)
13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.


Exodus6:1-3
6 So Jehovah said to Moses: “Now you will see what I will do to Pharʹaoh.+ A mighty hand will force him to send them away, and a mighty hand will force him to drive them out of his land.”+2 Then God said to Moses: “I am Jehovah. 3 And I used to appear to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as God Almighty,+but with regard to my name Jehovah+ I did not make myself known to them.


Peace

JMAN05:
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200002391?q=divine+name&p=par)

Early Use of the Name and Its Meaning are often misapplied to mean that Jehovah’s name
was first revealed to Moses sometime prior to the Exodus
from Egypt. True, Moses raised the question: “Suppose I
am now come to the sons of Israel and I do say to them,
‘The God of your forefathers has sent me to you,’ and they
do say to me, ‘What is his name?’ What shall I say to
them?” But this does not mean that he or the Israelites did
not know Jehovah’s name. The very name of Moses’
mother Jochebed means, possibly, “Jehovah Is Glory.” (
) Moses’ question likely was related to the
circumstances in which the sons of Israel found themselves.
They had been in hard slavery for many decades with no
sign of any relief. Doubt, discouragement, and weakness of
faith in God’s power and purpose to deliver them had very
likely infiltrated their ranks. (Note also .) For
Moses simply to say he came in the name of
“God” (ʼElo·himʹ ) or the “Sovereign Lord” (ʼAdho·naiʹ )
therefore might not have meant much to the suffering
Israelites. They knew the Egyptians had their own gods and
lords and doubtless heard taunts from the Egyptians that
their gods were superior to the God of the Israelites.
Then, too, we must keep in mind that names then had real
meaning and were not just “labels” to identify an individual
as today. Moses knew that Abram’s name (meaning
“Father Is High (Exalted)”) was changed to Abraham
(meaning “Father of a Crowd (Multitude)”), the change
being made because of God’s purpose concerning
Abraham. So, too, the name of Sarai was changed to Sarah
and that of Jacob to Israel; in each case the change
revealed something fundamental and prophetic about God’s
purpose concerning them. Moses may well have wondered
if Jehovah would now reveal himself under some new name
to throw light on his purpose toward Israel. Moses’ going
to the Israelites in the “name” of the One who sent him
meant being the representative of that One, and the
greatness of the authority with which Moses would speak
would be determined by or be commensurate with that
name and what it represented. (Compare
.) So, Moses’ question was a meaningful one.
God’s reply in Hebrew was: ʼEh·yehʹ ʼAsherʹ ʼEh·yehʹ. Some
translations render this as “I AM THAT I AM.” However, it is
to be noted that the Hebrew verb ha·yahʹ, from which the
word ʼEh·yehʹ is drawn, does not mean simply “be.” Rather,
it means “become,” or “prove to be.” The reference here is
not to God’s self-existence but to what he has in mind to
become toward others. Therefore, the New World
Translation properly renders the above Hebrew expression
as “I SHALL PROVE TO BE WHAT I SHALL PROVE TO BE.”
Jehovah thereafter added: “This is what you are to say to
the sons of Israel, ‘I SHALL PROVE TO BE has sent me to
you.’”— , ftn.
That this meant no change in God’s name, but only an
additional insight into God’s personality, is seen from his
further words: “This is what you are to say to the sons of
Israel, ‘Jehovah the God of your forefathers, the God of
Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob, has sent
me to you.’ This is my name to time indefinite, and this is
the memorial of me to generation after generation.” (
; compare .) The name Jehovah
comes from a Hebrew verb that means “to become,” and a
number of scholars suggest that the name means “He
Causes to Become.” This definition well fits Jehovah’s role
as the Creator of all things and the Fulfiller of his purpose.
Only the true God could rightly and authentically bear such
a name.
This aids one in understanding the sense of Jehovah’s later
statement to Moses: “I am Jehovah. And I used to appear
to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as God Almighty, but as
respects my name Jehovah I did not make myself known to
them.” ( ) Since the name Jehovah was used many
times by those patriarchal ancestors of Moses, it is evident
that God meant that he manifested himself to them in the
capacity of Jehovah only in a limited way. To illustrate this,
those who had known the man Abram could hardly be said
to have really known him as Abraham (meaning “Father of a
Crowd (Multitude)”) while he had but one son, Ishmael.
When Isaac and other sons were born and began producing
offspring, the name Abraham took on greater meaning or
import. So, too, the name Jehovah would now take on
expanded meaning for the Israelites.
To “know,” therefore, does not necessarily mean merely to
be acquainted with or cognizant of something or someone.
The foolish Nabal knew David’s name but still asked, “Who
is David?” in the sense of asking, “What does he amount
to?” ( ; compare .) So, too, Pharaoh
had said to Moses: “Who is Jehovah, so that I should obey
his voice to send Israel away? I do not know Jehovah at all
and, what is more, I am not going to send Israel away.” (
) By that, Pharaoh evidently meant that he did not
know Jehovah as the true God or as having any authority
over Egypt’s king and his affairs, nor as having any might
to enforce His will as announced by Moses and Aaron. But
now Pharaoh and all Egypt, along with the Israelites, would
come to know the real meaning of that name, the person it
represented. As Jehovah showed Moses, this would result
from God’s carrying out His purpose toward Israel,
liberating them, giving them the Promised Land, and thereby
fulfilling His covenant with their forefathers. In this way, as
God said, “You will certainly know that I am Jehovah your
God.”— ; see ALMIGHTY .
Professor of Hebrew D. H. Weir therefore rightly says that
those who claim marks the first time the
name Jehovah was revealed, “have not studied [these
verses] in the light of other scriptures; otherwise they would
have perceived that by name must be meant here not the
two syllables which make up the word Jehovah, but the
idea which it expresses. When we read in ,
‘Therefore my people shall know my name;’ or in
, ‘They shall know that my name is Jehovah;’ or
in the Psalms, ], ‘They that know thy name
shall put their trust in thee;’ we see at once that to know
Jehovah’s name is something very different from knowing
the four letters of which it is composed. It is to know by
experience that Jehovah rea

JMAN05:
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200002391?q=divine+name&p=par)

"Professor of Hebrew D. H. Weir therefore rightly says that
those who claim (Exodus6:2,3) marks the first time the
name Jehovah was revealed, “have not studied [these
verses] in the light of other scriptures; otherwise they would
have perceived that by name must be meant here not the
two syllables which make up the word Jehovah, but the
idea which it expresses."

JMAN05:
Where?

He will hold onto anything to find contradiction.

Ubenedictus:
gen 1 and gen 2, gen 1 tells us how God created plants before men, gen 2 says when God created man there wasn't yet any plant

Can you please post the contradiction let us see?

I will not be the one to copy and paste your supposed contradiction.

Thank you.

Ubenedictus:
how will you address the fact that Genesis present 2 creation stories that contradict themselves, or you haven't noticed it.

I don't follow, What contradiction?

budaatum:
I guess the Bible need some more bits deleted then.

Contradictions in the Gospels

1. Matthew and Luke disagree
Matthew and Luke give two contradictory genealogies for Joseph (Matthew 1:2-17 and Luke 3:23-38). They cannot even agree on who the father of Joseph was.

2. Why genealogies of Joseph
Both the genealogies of Matthew and Luke show that Joseph was a direct descendant of King David. But is Joseph is Jesus' father?

3. Why do only Matthew and Luke know of the virgin birth?
Of all the writers of the New Testament, only Matthew and Luke mention the virgin birth. Had something as miraculous as the virgin birth actually occurred, one would expect that Mark and John would have at least mentioned it in their efforts to convince the world that Jesus was who they were claiming him to be.

Sauce

Is it not that they both traced the genealogy of Jesus from different angle?
One through the paternal side while the other is through the mother's side?

budaatum:
The Apocrypha was in the King James Version. However, as to how it was viewed and removed, see
Why the Apocrypha Isn't in the Bible.

I was thinking that the 'teaching books of the OT were all written by Christ Apostles' only!

Excluding the historical parts.

That appears should rather make it a pretty straight forward thing to pick out the books of the OT that are not "Apocryphal"....

PastorAIO:
You have summarised yourself here. It is finished.

Abusing qed like a buffoon. Perhaps you just don't know that q.e.d follows a successful line of argumentation and you can't just jump to it after an assertion.

The d part of qed means demonatrandun. You have not demonstrated anything. Now I'm certain that fake religion has corrosive effects on the brain.

Is this AIO? losing control?

Chill men! Take a deep breath! Calm down!!!


The influence driving you is impulsive hence.

Must it get the Bible destroyed by all cost? Take it easy men, I know you can't and will never succeed till you spend your tweeny little days here on this part of the solar system, just as your predecessors failed you are destined to fail woefully also.

The Bible cannot be destroyed. QED.

Peace.

Chill!

ps:
Guess whose brain is corrosive from the above.

PastorAIO:
Thank you. However the meaning of Contradiction is not a matter of personal opinion.

I see no contradiction. You wished.

PastorAIO:
Actually I don't hate the bible, but I do hate the way you are attempting to misuse it and to turn it into what it's not and what it never claimed to be.

The Bible remains what it is. THE WORD OF GOD. QED.

It does not need Orthodoxy seal of approval to be it neither does it need yours. Live and lets live.

Let to them, it would have been destroyed not to talk of people they have killed for owning one.

Twisting the Bible and not following cum following of tradition of men is the problem and not the Bible.

If certain people have lost influence that is not the Bible's fault. Christ did not bestow any such influence on any particular person. They got it through the back door.

"Know the truth and the truth will set you free", the Bible says and has always says.

Peace.

truthislight:
How can the result and outcome of one seeing every thing Bible through a thick glass/through a strongly entrenched dogmatic sentiment cum philosophy of Orthodoxy be free from bias?

PastorAIO:
Do you know what a contradiction is?

Look at these 2 statements:

A: my name is Yahweh, nobody knew this before

B: thousands of years before A people began to call on the name Yahweh.

Unless people can call on yahwehs name and yet not be aware of the name at the same time THEN. The two statements are contradictions.


And now as for the redundancy of the bible .... I would not go so far as to make it redundant but I set out my objective a while.

1)This notion that the Bible is some special inspiration given by God and esteemed above every other inspiration in existence is crap.

I can get more spiritual edification from observing a painting or listening to a song than any biblical passage can offer.

2). I think it is utterly stupid to claim that the Truth, ultimate Truth, is embedded within a Text.

3) The elevation of the bible to some sort of 'constitution' of Christianity is effected purposely to detract away from the Authority of the church so the Protestant reformation can take place.

4) the substitution of reading the bible as the central Christian practice instead of the actual practice of its ethical and sacramental tenets is a cause of much irreligious activities.

5) I hate the spread of mendacity and extolling the bible as an historical and scientifically factual book is the highest peak of mendacity.


There's more. It let's digest that one first.

You Orthodox bias hatred for the Bible is pungent.

Your fore fathers with such hate made all concerted effort to do away with the Bible.

PastorAIO:
Sir, I'm a bit fascinated by your use of terms here. I've never heard such a metaphor as "prism sight". I spent a while trying to make sense of it. I imagine it's supposed to. E derogatory but I don't see how. A prism divides light into its component colours. Much like the the word that is 'quick and active , sharper than a two edge sword separating even soul from spirit'.

I don't see what is wrong with refraction o. Abeg explain.

Lol.

How can the result and outcome of one seeing every thing Bible through a thick glass/through a strongly entrenched dogmatic sentiment cum philosophy of Orthodoxy be free from bias?

PastorAIO:
Do you know what a contradiction is?

Look at these 2 statements:

A: my name is Yahweh, nobody knew this before

B: thousands of years before A people began to call on the name Yahweh.

Unless people can call on yahwehs name and yet not be aware of the name at the same time THEN. The two statements are contradictions.


And now as for the redundancy of the bible .... I would not go so far as to make it redundant but I set out my objective a while.

1)This notion that the Bible is some special inspiration given by God and esteemed above every other inspiration in existence is crap.

I can get more spiritual edification from observing a painting or listening to a song than any biblical passage can offer.

2). I think it is utterly stupid to claim that the Truth, ultimate Truth, is embedded within a Text.

3) The elevation of the bible to some sort of 'constitution' of Christianity is effected purposely to detract away from the Authority of the church so the Protestant reformation can take place.

4) the substitution of reading the bible as the central Christian practice instead of the actual practice of its ethical and sacramental tenets is a cause of much irreligious activities.

5) I hate the spread of mendacity and extolling the bible as an historical and scientifically factual book is the highest peak of mendacity.


There's more. It let's digest that one first.

You are entitled to your personal opinion.

.

PastorAIO:
Thank you. I'm glad that you can admit that other people were involved in the writings. Perhaps you will soon admitted that that OT has been heavily redacted too.

If Moses gave the law that doesn't affect the book of genesis because there are no laws therein.
So we know that Moses couldn't have written the Pentateuch ( at least in its entirety)because they report on moses' death.
We also know that the OT is full of contradictions that suggest that various contradictory parties have had a hand in redacting it.

Once we are aware of this then it's clear that things like the contradiction of saying that Abraham didn't know Yahweh by name in exodus, and quoting Abraham as knowing and calling Yahweh by name in genesis, become not only unsurprising but even expected.

THOSE ARE NO CONTRADICTIONS JUST YOUR PRISM SIGHTEDNESS THAT IS CAUSING YOUR REFRACTION ON THOSE ISSUES, NOT JUST THOSE BUT ON SO MANY COUNTS.

SO MANY THAT I CAN NOT EVEN START SINCE I MAY NOT CONCLUDE ON IT.

I DO NOT HAVE SUCH BARRIERS.

LET TO YOU, THE BIBLE AS A WHOLE SHOULD BE RENDERED REDUNDANT.

Peace.

PastorAIO:
Moses was a writer. I am a writer. Napoleon the great also wrote. So what?

Moses wrote the law. So what?
The book of Exodus etc which contained the law is not written by Moses. Why? Because these books report moses' death. Moses cannot write about what happened to his body when he died.
Perhaps moses' writings were inserted into the books but that doesn't make them written by Moses.
The fact that the book reports moses' death trumps anything you can say to prove moses wrote it.

You belief what you want.

Your opinion those are.

I choosed to believe What Jesus said.

Psalms was written by David, But other writers are contributors.

Take that.

Exodus was written by Moses, that does not exclude the possibility that it had a contributor. Take Psalms as an example.

PastorAIO:
Truth is light


To Seth also a son was born, and he called his name Enosh. At that time people began to call upon the name of the LORD.
Gen 4:26

You will first have to tell me which other God was there to be called upon other than Yahweh.

If Adam and others of his offsprings had refused to call on the almighty God and then Seth started it again, Which other God would the writer of Genesis had concluded they were calling? Amadioha?

Is it possible that those people before the flood did not have a designation for identifying the Almighty God?

Were they deaf and dumb?

The writer Simply identified the God they were calling by using the familiar name. Simple!

Don't forget that the name was represented by YHWH.

Peace.

Again, The Jews are not denying that the Bible writer of Genesis is moses.

How moses could have gotten the information he wrote about?

Well, how did he get the laws he gave to the nation of Israel? It was given to him by someone he said, This someone also gave him other information he wanted to know.

If You think it is not possible for him to get information other than that of his time, then you also have to ask Jesus that said moses wrote about him:
John 5:46:
In fact, if you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me

If Moses could write about the future concerning Jesus, how much easier it would be for him to write about the past from the same source of information gathering.

Start by blaming Jesus, he said Moses was inspired to write. And i believed him.

Peace.

PastorAIO:
Hello, I get your drift very well and I say that you drift is the wrong drift.

Okay, you are making the big, and wrong, assumption that Moses wrote Genesis. That is a tradition that is man made. In the same Books of Moses we can read an account of Moses' death. How is that possible?

But even if we were to allow that obvious error, how do we account for Genesis 4:26.

In gen 4:26 we are told clearly and explicitly that at the time of Enosh was when people began to call on the name Yahweh.

So the name Yahweh was in use from the time of Enosh according to this passage.

According to Jesus, Moses did some writings right?

John 7:19:

19 Moses gave you the Law, did he not? But not one of you obeys the Law. Why are you seeking to kill me?”
......................................................

From the above words of Jesus, Moses is accredited with giving the laws that was received in exodus.

Unless you know something Jesus does not know you tell me.

Moses was a writer that i am very sure of according to Jesus.

Peace.

PastorAIO:
Hello, I get your drift very well and I say that you drift is the wrong drift.

Okay, you are making the big, and wrong, assumption that Moses wrote Genesis. That is a tradition that is man made. In the same Books of Moses we can read an account of Moses' death. How is that possible?

But even if we were to allow that obvious error, how do we account for Genesis 4:26.

In gen 4:26 we are told clearly and explicitly that at the time of Enosh was when people began to call on the name Yahweh.

So the name Yahweh was in use from the time of Enosh according to this passage.

PastorAIO:
Hello, I get your drift very well and I say that you drift is the wrong drift.

Okay, you are making the big, and wrong, assumption that Moses wrote Genesis. That is a tradition that is man made. In the same Books of Moses we can read an account of Moses' death. How is that possible?

But even if we were to allow that obvious error, how do we account for Genesis 4:26.

In gen 4:26 we are told clearly and explicitly that at the time of Enosh was when people began to call on the name Yahweh.

So the name Yahweh was in use from the time of Enosh according to this passage.

Ok.

For you to insinuate that it is not moses that wrote the book of Exodus where the name of Yahweh was given him you have to argue with its internal claims also.

That someone like his companion had or played a part also is not what am arguing against. After all, he had a close companion like Joshua.

At Exodus 17:14 we read:

14 Jehovah now said to Moses: “Write this as a memorial in the book and repeat it to Joshua, ‘I will completely wipe out the memory of Amʹa·lek from under the heavens.’

Why Repeat to Joshua if Joshua had no Input in the writings? Why would Yahweh urge Moses to repeat it to Joshua if Joshua was a Nonentity?

The above is an instruction to Moses to "write".
You may have to counteract that instruction and tell us why we should believe you and not the document itself.

And again, you will have to tell us the reason why moses would have to disobey that direct command and still remained as a prophet of Yahweh.

Exodus 24:4
So Moses wrote down all the words of Jehovah. Then he got up early in the morning and built at the foot of the mountain an altar and 12 pillars corresponding to the 12 tribes of Israel.

Exodus 34:27

Same command to write is given.

frosbel2:
Hi Goshen,

Please show us the scriptures from the old testament that support these new testament passages , please they have to be specific matches.

Thanks.

Don't forget that the above was your requirements.

Peace.