₦airaland Forum

truthislight:
Isaiah 53:4,5

4 Truly he himself carried our sicknesses, And he bore our pains. But we considered him as plagued, stricken by God and afflicted. 5 But he was pierced for our transgression; He was crushed for our errors. He bore the punishment for our peace And because of his wounds we were healed


7 He was oppressed and he let himself be afflicted, But he would not open his mouth. He was brought like a sheep to the slaughter, Like a ewe that is silent before its shearers,And he would not
open his mouth. 8 Because of restraint and judgment he was taken away; And who will concern himself with the details of his generation? For he was cut off from the land of the living;Because of the transgression of my people he received the stroke.

9 And he was given a burial place with the wicked, And with the rich in his death, Although he had done no wrong And there was no deception in his mouth


11 Because of his anguish, he will see and be satisfied. By means of his knowledge the righteous one, my servant, Will bring a righteous standing to many people, And their errors he will bear. 12 For that reason I will assign him a portion among the many, And he will apportion the spoil with the mighty, Because he poured out his life even to death. And was counted among the transgressors; He carried the sin of many people And he interceded for the transgressors

PastorAIO:
Sir, you are missing the point. As usual. I am not asking if Yahweh is equivalent to el shaddai or not.

Exodus 6:3 says Abraham did not know Yahweh by name.

Genesis 14:22 quotes Abraham as calling Yahweh by name.

So the question, wherein lies my point, is 'Did Abraham know Yahwehs name or not'? One of those 2 bible passages is a lie. Or maybe even both sef.

DeepSight:
This is an incongruous way to frame the question. No "entity" "indwells" a "person".

Rather, a person lives in a body, simple.

What I have set out to show, is that that body which we live in, is a mere mask, a sort of biochemical hologram, behind which the real person sits and works.

PsychopathicG:
Bros, you get sense abeg. Sometimes I look at Nigerians and marvel at the level of illiteracy, how can you be claiming that a religion of a people who didn't have land until 1948 is UNIQUE. These guys have been slaves so long their history is definitely gonna be a sum total of the histories of their masters. I still think this is the reason why it permeates easily tho,they have borrowed from everywhere on earth, every culture possible. And this also explains why a bulk of social phenomena have ready made answers in the Bible, the solutions depend on the time tho, and the Bible requires evangelists to give it time-fit meanings. On its own, the bible is a flawed old book of cultural stories.

PastorAIO:
Exodus6:3

3and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as El Shaddai, but by My name, YHWH, I did not make Myself known to them.

Funny thing is that Yahweh is all over the place before Moses turns up.

DeepSight:
^^^ Your analogy of the mad man is not apt: there is no self evident equivalent visor which he is wearing such as is the case with each an everyone of us - the visor being your physical head.

If you are unable to take a cold calm critical look at your own head in a mirror and understand that it is self evidently a temporal biochemical mask which enables a being to perceive: and then to grasp the implications is that, I cannot help you.

It has been long, but we shall resume, step by step hopefully.

DeepSight:
Ordinarily the instinct to reproduce, well known as a trait of all or most living things in our world is or ought to be something to be taken without a second thought in the scheme of nature. However I would crave your indulgence, in light of the advanced capacity of humans beyond other animals - to think beyond instinct and to project into the future in a more conscious way - to ask a few questions about our instincts to reproduce and thus become parents especially in light of the nature of the world that we live in. I thus apologize in advance as I do by no means intend to diminish thje honored institution of valued parenthood, I only intend to draw attention to some of its apparently unsavory accompaniments.

As man an woman, the desire to self replicate begins to burn within the generality of us after a certain maturity of years upon the earth, and for many people, this desire is an all consuming passion - beyond which they can not contemplate any meaningful existence and in the absence of which life becomes bitter and meaningless. For the many others who do indeed have children, their children become absolutely the beginning and the end of all meaning and purpose in their lives and all their earthly exertions are directed towards the well being, success and happiness of those children.

It is my observation that the matter of self replication appears to breed such a degree of desperation in human beings that may well be said to be sometimes unhealthy, sometimes dangerous, sometimes selfish, and sometimes may well extend to the morbidly desperate and outright sociopathically evil. Here are my reasons:

Issue Number One: What is your reason for wanting to have a child?

Many people do not think deeply about this question at all - you might as well ask them what is their reason for eating food or breathing air, for so closely is the urge to replicate woven into our DNA that it oft does not appear a question that should arise, in the minds of many. This is the same way many do not contemplate their reasons for wanting to be married, but I digress.

When having a child, you are engaging in a sacred process which triggers of the entrance of a living human soul into this world. That is by itself a deep and weighty thing to contemplate. From my mediocre stand point one of the first questions that leaps out at me, is - "having consideration to what I know about the nature of this world in which I live, is it a world in which I would wish to bring any other soul into?". For me, at a personal level, the very straight answer is a very firm and adamant no: and this is because I shudder at the incomprehensible horrors of existence on this plane, and it is a miracle to me that any maintain their sanity in such a world as this: I doubt that any do really - but believe that most maintain an outward pretense of same. However that is just me: the question should go out to every intending parent, and should more thoroughly be reprhased as this:

Do you think it is fair to bring any soul into this world as you know it? Assuming that you think that that is okay, what are your particular reasons for wanting to do so: do those reasons concern that unknown soul so much as they are about your own happiness and fulfillment at having the experience of having had a child?

In short: is it all about the child or all about you?

This question is important because many people do not feel like a real man or a real woman if they have been unable to have children. This poses the question if we do not desperately seek children more to soothe our egos than for anything else at all.

Issue Number Two: Is there anything you would not do for your child?

For most people, there is absolutely nothing they world not do, and no length they would not go to, to feed, help and protect their children. This is only the very instinct of nature - although in human beings this parental desperation often reaches much further than the child's feeding or education. It often reaches as far as securing every possible material, social. financial and political advantage possible for the child. In this, it is a battle for the well being and triumph of a gene pool and the question of merit does not arise: therefore it is often seen that the parent will go to radical lengths - even lengths that may be deemed unfair to other people - to ensure the protection, endurance and success of their clan - their gene pool: their children.

All of this is fair game in nature except that as pointed out, the parental desperation involved can be extreme. Nothing is as valuable to a parent as its child, and we shall return to this point shortly. For this same reason extreme parental desperation aside from often placing unnecessary pressures on the children themselves can lead to much negativity.

Many friends of mine who are parents have often told me in a very dark and serious tone that they would murder anyone who tried to harm their child. Once again, this is fair game in nature. However in the world in which we live - many do the same or equally terrible things on account of this parental desperation.

Question: Would you murder on account of your child? To what extent would you go? Whom would you not shunt aside to advance your child's interests? If you had to kick down the chances of another child in any significant matter in order to assist your child, would you do so or not? If you had to tell lies for you child, would you do so or not? If you had to cheat others for the prosperity of your child, would you do so or not? If you had to bear false witness to save your child from a criminal sentence, would you do so or not?

Issue Number Three: Parental Control: Security and Reward

For a great many people also - particularly in our society, having children is an investment which provides security for the future and reward in old age. This in itself is a mercenary reason to have children but it is a real and very prevalent one. That age old question arises: "Who will look after me in my old age?"

Aside from this, one must point out that from time immemorial, having children was also an economic necessity: a family or clan needed more and more surviving young hands to pull in the hay and till the ground, and to ensure food security for all. It was therefore the case that chances of survival were always better in larger numbers.

Question: Is this one of the reasons you wish to have children and is it one of the expectations you have from your children?

Issue Number Four: The Unbearable Bond.

The bond between a parent and its child can reach unbearably deep. I often say to people that a Child is its Parent's immortality on this plane.

This can mean that both the parent and the child stand in that threshold of sanity and insanity where either can do almost anything no matter how desperate or far reaching for the sake of the other. At all events, that precious bond must suffer pain at death: and in some unpleasant instances where nature is turned on its head, it is the parent that has to watch its child die first. This sort of experience has made many people never the same again. However this is one fact of life that all have to deal with.

These are a few thoughts regarding which I would like to hear the thoughts of others - do you contemplate these things regarding parenthood?
What else do you contemplate?

plaetton:
I wonder whether this so-called illusion is created by the so-called one infinite source, the infinite mind, or, it it's just part of the grand illusion.

If someone claims to be living in an illusion, then based on what reality does one make such an assertion ?
In other words, to understand an illusion or make a case for an illusion , one must know what is real. The two must be distinguishable.

To repeatedly shoult that everything is an illusion, including your very thoughts on the matter, seems to me like just a walk into the twilight zone of mild ,, eehhm, eehhm, ..

truthislight:
Since it is not only Frosbel2 that is reading this thread, it is important that the below scriptures be posted here:


Isaiah 53:4,5

4 Truly he himself carried our sicknesses, And he bore our pains. But we considered him as plagued, stricken by God and afflicted. 5 But he was pierced for our transgression; He was crushed for our errors. He bore the punishment for our peace And because of his wounds we were healed


7 He was oppressed and he let himself be afflicted, But he would not open his mouth. He was brought like a sheep to the slaughter, Like a ewe that is silent before its shearers,And he would not
open his mouth. 8 Because of restraint and judgment he was taken away; And who will concern himself with the details of his generation? For he was cut off from the land of the living;Because of the transgression of my people he received the stroke.

9 And he was given a burial place with the wicked, And with the rich in his death, Although he had done no wrong And there was no deception in his mouth


11 Because of his anguish, he will see and be satisfied. By means of his knowledge the righteous one, my servant, Will bring a righteous standing to many people, And their errors he will bear. 12 For that reason I will assign him a portion among the many, And he will apportion the spoil with the mighty, Because he poured out his life even to death. And was counted among the transgressors; He carried the sin of many people And he interceded for the transgressors

Logicbwoy:
I dey. I have been around

DeepSight:
Now let us calm down carefully together and let me ask all of you four these preliminary simple questions: first and foremost, I would like to ask if you people are crazy. Are you guys really in your right senses? Yes, you heard me right: the question is indeed if you guys are crazy. You guys must be the ones smoking something - not me: and I say that with all sobriety and sense of seriousness.

For, if it were not that you gentlemen are indeed crazy, how else would you expect any sane and reflective person to perceive this world? From whence you know not, you opened your eyes made of flesh one day and began to see a world about you. You began to grow and your body became larger and firmer until you became an adult. You find that it turns out that your world is a small blue planet orbiting a red furnace in a universe of billions of similar furnaces. Everyday you live in this world is nothing but an astonishing and strange miracle, in all truth. Have you taken the time to observe your head closely? I stated in the OP that examining this very head of yours will unravel much about what exactly you are as a being. Yes, na me talk am: examine ya head. However my saying this has elicited nothing but mockery on this thread: but really a sane person must wonder why: do you not take a moment to pause and meditate to your self? Just take a mirror and stare really hard at your self, the eyes made of flesh, the skin which covers the bones, the temples and the teeth all of which will be empty and dry lifeless bones in the not too distant future. That entire physical make up which will all rot: become rotten meat and fade away, that skull in which your two seeing balls of flesh currently hang, will surely lie dead as an empty cage which is exactly what it is and yet you have the nerve to dare tell me that it is not self evidently a casing for a being for a short time: a casing which provides the being's experience of what it sees, touches, tastes, hears and smells, my friends does this alone not tell you that that entire experience is subjective and something that a being is observing through this casing and which therefore cannot have any objective reality to it: the experience of each casing being altogether different and when this casing dies and rots away what is the reality to that life which it just lived if not a short virtual reality experience, no? You are still in your encasements, perhaps this should be an excuse for your myopia, but for me it should be self evident to one and all that once this encasement falls away as it surely would, the human being must see and know its mortal experience for what it is: a virtual reality experience for a short time.

If you guys don't see this, you are the deluded ones and not me: I will however continue the thread step by step to expand on this matter.

Logicbwoy:
abeg, I need the spiritual weed that you are smoking.

Your delusions are potent.


Spiritual realm indeed.

Acebrain28:
No i don't. I know myself better than you do, so don't start there.



Have you heard about Mormons, Sisters of faith, Lutherians?




Same with aspiring to be an atheist, traditional worship, satanism and lots more.



I can bet you typed this out of hatred towards the authors of the site.





While i was still blinded like you were i spent an average of 2hrs daily on that site reading and studing Jw-based articules, but after Jehovah freed me from the watchtower control i realised everything was lies and full of deception and control technique. Thus today i dread the site and aviod it like leprousy.


Dear, i admire your zeal for Jah's work. However, Sadly you are serving men not Jehovah God. The earlier you realise this the better for you.

sonofluc1fer:

petra1:
https://www.nairaland.com/icons/closed.gif

petra1:
https://www.nairaland.com/icons/closed.gif

DeepSight:
Nah my dear,not off the rails at all.
Although I must add very quickly that this thread in particular is likely to come across that way. But mostly for the unseeing.

DeepSight:
That life is an illusion is something that I have since made peace with. Sometimes though, I wonder if the other participants (or other conscious programs if you like) within this illusion called life (if they are conscious at all) recognize that life is indeed an illusion. I have only met two other persons who are like me absolutely convicted about this illussionary nature of our existence, and without attempting to appeal to authority let me say that they are both eminently distinguished persons who excel not just in their fields of human endeavor alone. In short, I mean to say that they are not bananas. And neither, am I.

Now let me come more closely to my subject: It has to do with the human body - human anatomy.

I say, that the human body is so implausible an object, so contradictory in its existence, indeed such a queer admixture of meat and mind, that it wholly discloses itself to be an illusion, an unreal thing: a mirage - something that is in fact not there at all: a hoax of a machine set only to appear as a being.

In this thread I will set about showing and proving this: and I will do so by reviewing the human body with respect to:

~ 1. The implausibility of the human head

~ 2. The mortality of human meat

Other Heads of discussion will be added as we go along. For now, let us start with the human head: and how it discloses very clearly that it is a biochemical rag-doll which is in fact illusionary - nothing but a virtual reality Visor which must be removed at death.

To do this, we are going to examine carefully a bare human skull as against a living human persons head.

Jozzy4:
Yes, there is no other saviour Except God Almighty, the God and Father of all.


but nevertheless he can Raise up others as saviours , meanwhile he is still the source of such Salvation



Consider Judges 3:9



" And when the children of Israel cried unto Jehovah, Jehovah raised up a saviour to the children of Israel, who saved them, even Othniel the son of Kenaz, Caleb's younger brother." - ASV




Notice here that Othniel was also regarded as a Saviour, But does that mean God is Not the Saviour considering the Big Truth that the salvation comes from him ?


So the same thing applies when God send his son as Saviour of the World . God remains the source of ALL SALVATION , but those he used in achieving his purpose can also be regarded as a " Saviour"

iSpirit1:
I hope you know you-ve not made any point yet so far the Bible is concerned?

iSpirit1:
I hope you know you-ve not made any point yet so far the Bible is concerned?

iSpirit1:
Bear with me brethren. . .I didn't read all the posts. But trust me, I know what's going on here.

iSpirit1:
Bear with me brethren. . .I didn't read all the posts. But trust me, I know what's going on here.

iSpirit1:
Talking about John 3:13; it shouldn't be confusing at all.

Let's see what Jesus meant:

Considering the context of Verse 13, taking it from verse 10. Jesus was talking about Himself as Testifying what He has seen (on the Earth). Which they also should have seen and therefore, NOT marvel at/disbelieve His teachings.

However, He was surprised that they marvelled at/disbelieved His testimony even tho' He was yet testifying about what should be obvious to them.

Here's where verse 13 comes in.

In line with that, He said, "If I testify earthly things to you (which you already should know) and you don't believe me; how much more will you disbelieve me if I tell you about HEAVENLY things? Considering the Fact that, 'no man has ever gone to Heaven and returned to tell you these things. But Himself has come down from heaven and has a LIVE Testimony of it'"

Here are the Verses:

"I assure you, we tell you what we know and have seen, and yet you won't believe our testimony. But if you don't believe me when I tell you about earthly things, how can you possibly believe if I tell you about heavenly things? No one has ever gone to heaven and returned. But the Son of Man has come down from heaven." (John 3:11-13 NLT).

Because the people were yet weak and carnal, they couldn't take HEAVENLY Testimonies. That's why Jesus had to keep some until the Time comes when they shall be able to bear/take it. John 16:12-13.

So, Jesus was NOT disputing that Elijah was taken up to Heaven. 2Kings 2:11.

Now, even tho' Elijah came back as John the Baptist (Matthew 11:12-15), he was without memory. He didn't have the memory of his past life therefore, he didn't know he was Elijah. John 1:19-21.

In studying the Bible, understand the context of every verse. That'll help you understand the true meaning of that verse.

iSpirit1:
Bear with me brethren. . .I didn't read all the posts. But trust me, I know what's going on here.

I hope this helps to answer so many questions.

I especially DONOT talk so much on this topic of HELL. But however, it would be wrong of me if I see brethren mistaken it and keep my cool.

Here is it:

In the Bible, the revelation is progressive. The further you go, the more advanced the revelation is.

Here's what I mean.

In Genesis, NOBODY knew God name by the name "Jehovah," but "Almighty God (El-Shaddai)".

In Exodus 6:3, God introduced Himself to Moses as "Jehovah". Highlighting to him that, "Moses, you're the 1st I'm telling this"

So, if someone were to study and stopped at Genesis, the person won't know God as "Jehovah" but "El-Shaddai"

The advancement continues. When Jesus came, He introduced God to us as "Father," showing us that God NOT only wants to be a Master (Lord) over us but wants to establish a Father and son relationship with us. Matthew 6:9.

If you didn't study to this point, you won't know this.

So it is with many Bible topics.

Taking for example, the Afterlife, as it concerns our discussion here. . . In the OT, based on the Revelations Available to them, all they knew was that the DEAD remains in their graves in a state of unconsciousness. As you can see throughout the OT. Ecclesiastes 9:10.

When Jesus came, He advanced the Revelation. Jesus was the 1st person to reveal to us that the dead (both righteous and wicked) do not remain in their graves. But, there's a place each group goes. As we can see in the STORY of Lazarus and the rich man Luke 16:19-24.

Notice: That is not a Parable as many confuse it. It is a STORY. Because parables doesn't contain specific names.

In Jesus' story, He revealed to us that the wicked goes to Hell (where fire burns them) while the Righteous goes to a Place which He called Abraham's Bosom to be comforted.

One thing about these two places is that, it's actually one place separated by a GULF as a wall will separate two rooms from one another.

That is where they were until Jesus died. In 1Peter 3:19-20 the Bible tells us that Jesus went preaching the Gospel to the WICKED who died during Noah's Generation. At where? That was in HELL! That was when He 'descended into the pit'.

After this activity, Jesus brought all the saints up with Him from Abraham's Bosom at His resurrection. Matthew 27:52-53.

At this Point, The Isaiah 5:14 prophecy was fulfilled. Because, when Jesus took the saints up with Him from Abraham's Bosom, Abraham's Bosom ceased to exist and Hell enlarged and dominated the whole territory.

Is HELL the Final Abode of the Wicked?

Apparently, No!

Because that HELL and it's occupants shall be casted into the Lake of Fire. Revelations 20:13-15.

Many have said this place is NOT a place of Eternal Torments but NO, THE BIBLE DESCRIBES A PLACE OF ETERNAL TORMENT.

Revelations 14:11, 19:1-3 tells us that the smoke of their torment went up for ever and ever.

Like I said, I do not like to discuss so much on this. How about we discuss something Gospel?

frosbel2:
This says nothing about the messiah dying for the sins of the people ?

Goshen360:
Thank you, truthislight, I see you have time to expound the exact thing I wanted to do. Obviously, when people read the word sin in scriptures, they won't check what it's talking about. It means 2 different things in scriptures but context with tell which one applies and or how it's used interchangeably. But I'm following up with the discussion.