₦airaland Forum

abduljabbar4:
Then you must be a Muslim. In fact a very strong one cos your ignorance is beyond description. Aren't you even supposed to be in your church?

In the Church? Do you know our Church programmes?

The worst spiritual thing that can happen to somebody is being a muslim. Islam is a religion that takes people to hell and allaah clearly said it.

abduljabbar4:
So because the guy refused to cooperate decided to use his brain he is now an atheist?

The guy said he is a Christian and that is why he was able to say something reasonable. No muslims have such intelligence. Most times it is atheists that try to rescue islam, muslims themselves know nothing. Jinns have tampered with your God given intelligence.

urchcoded:
If only ursef could be convinced by ur response.... Dat portion clearly shows as u have said dat there has always been darkness even before God created light... Did God create d darkness.... Or it existed even before God.. #and the spirit of God hovered over the waters... It also seems dat Dia was also water existing which God didn't create. He only separated the waters from d ground...

Not like i just want to be a criticizer of d Bible but don't u see Dia are more inconsistencies Dan not in it

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VictorRomanov:
I'll use an engineering analogy. In road construction, machine called a compactor is used to compact sand fill. During the process of compacting, the compactor shakes and vibrates the ground. The vibration shakes exiting buildings around the site, like an earthquake. A layman would probably be wondering why the quaking but the engineer knows that the quaking is done to STABILIZE the ground.


now i am not saying the koran is right, but i think it's trying to explain WHY the mountains form and not HOW they re formed.

And from my illustration u can see that a tremour or quaking can actually be a process to stability.

I believe you are an atheists, if not so, you sound very much so. Many atheists make much effort to defend the quran.

Go through this to read more on the subject:

The Qur’an, in several passages, tells us that Allah placed mountains on the earth so that the earth would not shake:

Sura 16:15 : And He has set up on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you; and rivers and roads; that ye may guide yourselves;

Sura 21:31 : And We have set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with them, and We have made therein broad highways (between mountains) for them to pass through: that they may receive Guidance.

Sura 31:10 : He created the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; He set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you;

Sura 78:7 : And the mountains as pegs?

Sura 79:32-33 : And the mountains hath He firmly fixed;- For use and convenience to you and your cattle.

Note that only Sura 78:7 refers to mountains as “pegs”. The Qur’an says nothing about mountains having “roots”. However, as we look at several Muslim arguments, Muslim apologists often refer to the “roots” of mountains as “pegs” in an attempt to align the term with the Qur’an. Muslims see this as a “miracle” since Muhammad could not have known that mountains had “roots” – so Muhammad’s reference to mountain roots (in spite of the fact that the Qur’an uses the term pegs and not roots) could only come from Allah. However, the existence of the roots of mountains was known in ancient times. Here are three verses from the Bible:

Job 28:9 : People assault the flinty rock with their hands and lay bare the roots of the mountains.

Psalm 18:7 : The earth trembled and quaked, and the foundations of the mountains shook; they trembled because he was angry.

Jonah 2:6 : To the roots of the mountains I sank down; the earth beneath barred me in forever. But you, LORD my God, brought my life up from the pit.

It is semantically incorrect to equate “roots” with “pegs” because “roots” are not the same as “pegs”. Roots are the result of natural processes. In the case of mountains, the “roots” are created by the collision, and subduction, of continental plates. “Pegs” are made by humans and are driven into the ground by humans. It should also be mentioned that not all mountains, such as volcanoes, have roots.

Some might read these passages as poetry; others might read it as an allegory. Others might read these passages and conclude that people in those days believed that the earth was flat and saw mountains serving a similar purpose as paperweights, holding the earth still. However, there are some Muslims who see these verses as “proof” that the Qur’an is miraculous because it discusses scientific concepts unknown to people in the ancient world. In fact, if you query Google for the terms mountains pegs miracle there are more than 3000 hits!

George Sale (cited by Wherry) tells us:

"The Muhammadans suppose that the earth, when first created, was smooth and equal, and thereby liable to a circular motion as well as the celestial orbs; and that the angels asking who could be able to stand on so tottering a frame, God fixed it the next morning by throwing the mountains on it."

The Tafsir al-Jalalayn says:

and the mountains pegs?, with which the earth is tied down like tents are tied down with pegs (the interrogative is meant as an affirmative).

Problems: Facts and Logic

The most obvious problem, with the idea that mountains prevent the earth from shaking, is that there are earthquakes each and every day on planet earth. Anyone can go on the United States Geological Survey site Latest Earthquakes in the World - Past 7 days to see where Magnitude 4.5, and above, earthquakes have occurred. Please go to this site and notice where the past week’s earthquakes have taken place: western North and South America, the Aleutian Islands, the Pacific “Ring of Fire”, and the Himalayas – all are regions with large mountains! Also, take a look at the Latest Earthquakes in the USA - Last 7 days and notice where these take place - in the Rocky and Cascade Mountains in the west and in the Appalachian Mountains of the east!

Mountains are created and formed by the movement and collision of tectonic plates and by volcanic forces – not by Allah placing them on the surface of the planet. Tectonic plates collide, creating mountains such as the Himalayas and the heat generated from one plate sub-ducting (or sliding) under another plate creates volcanoes such as the Cascade Mountains. These areas, as can be plainly seen in the USGS map, are where earthquakes occur.


In addition to these factual errors, the Qur’an is simply not logical when it refers to mountains as “pegs”. A peg is used to fix, or anchor, something – such as a tent – to the ground. So, if mountains are “pegs”, as the Qur’an says, exactly to what do mountains “peg” the earth? Do they “peg” the earth to itself? That would be absurd!

However, no argument appears to be absurd when it supports the Qur’an. One Muslim apologist tells us:

Mountains do hold the tectonic plates together and also do function as buffer against earthquakes! There’s plenty of research confirming this, don't let these pseudo-scientists tell you otherwise. The problem is, although mountains do all this, they are in the first place created by the movement of the tectonic plates and earthquakes. Therefor people naturally assume that since they are created by it, they cannot afterwards negate the effect. But that assumption is wrong. While it is true that Allah subhana wa ta'ala creates mountains trough tectonic movement and earthquakes; once that those mountains are big enough they do counter the effect. In that sense the analogy with the apple is also very deceiving. The two are hardly comparable. The presence of mountains, especially the older and bigger ones has a huge effect in buffering earthquakes.

This is incorrect because it confuses cause and effect. Mountains are created by the collision of tectonic plates – a process that does not stabilize the earth, but is the cause of earthquakes. In other words, the mountain is the effect of the collision of tectonic plates and plate movement slows because one plate impacts the other and the formation of mountains has nothing to do with this.

The author also cites a scientific paper which tells us:

"San Gabriel Mountains act as a natural seismic insulator for metropolitan Los Angeles. The topography of the mountains scatters the surface waves generated by the rupture on the San Andreas fault, leading to less-efficient excitation of basin-edge generated waves and natural resonances within the Los Angeles Basin. The effect of the mountains reduces the peak amplitude of ground velocity for some regions in the basin by as much as 50% in the frequency band up to 0.5 Hz. These results suggest that, depending on the relative location of faulting and the nearby large-scale topography, the topography can shield some areas from ground shaking."

The idea that the topography of these mountains reduces the peak amplitude of surface waves, in some places, is interesting. However, these mountains obviously do not prevent earthquakes in the Los Angeles Basin. Since this article discusses the surface topography of mountains, in relation to earthquakes, the mountains do not serve as “pegs”.

The Dishonest Abuse/Misuse of Sources to Support the Qur’an’s “Miracle”

Muslims attempt to rescue their Qur’an from these obvious errors by asserting that mountains are actually “pegs” and proclaim this a miracle! Muslim apologists turn to a number of Geology texts and suspend any pretense of intellectual honesty by removing the author’s text, from the illustrations that they present, and insert their own text. After all, Muslims cannot cite one single Geologist who claims that mountains are “pegs”, or that they prevent earthquakes.

Some Islamic websites (e.g., 1, 2) cite a Geology text book, Earth, by Frank Press. The Muslims cite incorrectly and dishonestly reproduce an image from this text:

http://.answering islam.org/authors/vargo/mountains_pegs.html

Blakjewelry:
That crap is gonna end up in the archives some day

Quran is undoubtedly a crap !!!

laiza:
When you're ready and willing to learn then ask, with humility and you'd be surprised at the level of your ignorance.

Please educate me nau !!!

VictorRomanov:
I don't know if the koran is right. However ur analogy of mountain formation and the purpose of mountains is faulty. u re comparing how and why.

How can mountain that is caused by large-scale movements, serious shakings be a stabilizing agent to the Earth?

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Quran declares that Allah put mountains on Earth to stabilize it and stop it from shaking, but mountains are the result of instability as tectonic plates collide or volcanoes erupt.

Quran 78:6-7 (Yusufali)
[6] Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse,

[7] And the mountains as pegs?

[ 78:6 Pickthal] Have We not made the earth an expanse,

[ 78:7 Pickthal] And the high hills bulwarks?

I wonder why the supposed all-knowing God would say large-scale movements (shakings) is the stabilization of the Earth.

Scientific Formation Of Mountains:

Mountain formation refers to the geological processes that underlie the formation of mountains. These processes are associated with large-scale movements of the earth's crust (plate tectonics). Mountain formation is related to plate tectonics. Folding, faulting, volcanic activity, igneous intrusion and metamorphism are all parts of the orogenic process of mountain building. The understanding of specific landscape features in terms of the underlying tectonic processes is called tectonic geomorphology, and the study of geologically young or ongoing processes is called neotectonics.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_formation

parisbookaddict:
I guess the kabba u worship teaches u to use derogatory language

When you kneel and bow before an object, no doubt you are worshiping that object. Muslims bow before Kaaba and yet they will tell you they are not worshiping it. Is allaah the Kaaba they are bowing to? Muslims and their reasoning faculty!!!

alfarouq

Behold, the former things are come to pass, and the new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them. `Sing unto the Lord a new song, and his praise from the end of the earth'. Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voices, the villages that Kedar doth inhabit: let the inhabitants of the rock sing, let them shout from the top of the mountains. Let them give glory unto the Lord, and declare His praise in the inlands." Chapter 42, Verses 9-12.

The same prophet Isaiah prophesied as follows:

For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace (Isaiah 9:6).
Do you believe Jesus as Mighty God? Why do you believe the same prophet when he prophesied about Kedar?

For your information, Paran where Ishmael settled was not today's Mecca. Therefore Muhammad who came from Mecca is not the one Isaiah referred to. Paran is possibly today's Palestine where Jesus came from.

PARAN

Heb: Pa'ran (), meaning "place of caverns".
Name of the place where Hagar and Ishmael went to when they were sent away by Abraham (Genesis 21:21), and where Ishmael continued to grow. Muslims argue that Paran refers to the Arabian desert and that Mt. Paran is the Sarawat Mountains. Accordingly, Muslims argued that Habbakkuk 3:3 is a prophecy of Muhammad :
God (his guidance) came from Teman, and the Holy One from mount Paran. Selah. His glory covered the heavens, and the earth was full of his praise. (Habbakkuk 3:3) (Mishael ibn Abdullah al-Kadhi, What did Jesus say?, 1997, Chapter 6:4).

There are two main problems with this. The first is of course that the prophecy has nothing to do with Muhammad. Notice that Mishael put in parenthesis "(his guidance)" in order to apply it to Muhammad, who was supposed to come from Teman. The Bible simply refers to God. This is an abuse of scripture. A much fuller treatment in this article.

The second problem is of course that (the Wilderness of) Paran in the Bible is not Arabia. The traditional view is that Paran is in the Sinai Peninsula, starting at Kadesh Barnea, which is south of Israel. Consider the following:
Hadad the Edomite, during the reign of Solomon, escaped to Egypt when he was a boy (1 Kings 11:17). "They set out from Midian and went to Paran. Then taking men from Paran with them, they went to Egypt..." (1 Kings 11:8-19). To think that Hadad set out from Midian (which is south east (SE) of Israel, near the Sinai in the Arabian Peninsula, go up north east east (NEE) to "Paran" (Mecca), then somehow end up in Egypt (south west of Mecca) is unthinkable.

The Israelites left Sinai (after receiving the Law) for the Desert of Paran (Numbers 10:12), on the way passing through Kibroth Hattavah (Numbers 11:34), Hazeroth (Numbers 12:16), and settling at Kadesh [Barnea] of Paran (Numbers 13:26), which is the northern part of the desert. From Paran, spies were sent to Canaan to check out the land (Numbers 13:3). The spies' exploration took them from Paran through the Desert of Zin (south of Israel), Rehob, Lebo Hamath, Negev, Hebron (Numbers 13:21-22). The southern boundary of the Israelite promised land is given as "Your southern side will include some of the Desert of Zin along the border of Edom. On the east, your southern boundary wll start from the end of the Salt Sea [i.e. Dead Sea], cross south of the Scorpion Pass, continue on to Zin and go south of Kadesh Barnea. Then it will go to Hazar Addar and over to Azmon, where it will turn, join the Wadi of Egypt and end at the Sea [i.e., Mediterranean]" (Numbers 34:3-5). Zin and Kadesh are clearly to the south of Israel, so to demand that Paran is on the east of Israel requies an impossible boundary.

The above verses also show that Moses and the Israelites were at Paran. But if Paran is Mecca, and that Moses is a prophet of Islam, then the obvious conclusion is that Moses was at Mecca and that he must have worshipped at the Ka'aba. Nothing of this sort is ever suggested by any Muslim. It also means that the whole group of Israelites (many thousands of them) passed through Mecca.

Ishmael married an Egyptian. Mecca is more than 700 miles away from Egypt, and getting an Egyptian wife seems a little too far. Although this is not conclusive, getting an Egyptian wife from the Sinai Peninsula is more probable.

For further information on Paran, check:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_of_Paran

parisbookaddict:
Here is a very simply proof that islamic allah does not exist

Fasting during the month of Ramadan is one of the Five Pillars of Islam.

When fasting, Muslims are required to abstain from food, beverages (including water), and sexual intercourse during daylight hours (from dawn to sunset). Thw gluttony can start aftwr sunset/darkness..

Remember muslims all over the world are asked to fast from sun rise to sunset.

Note that;
Early Muslims in the days of Muhammad kept the fast in a Christian manner: 40 days, and then one month abstaining from meat and milk products as Christians do today.

Then Muhammad said it was too hard, and it was revealed to him that daylight fasting would suffice. Accordingly, Ramadan fasting involves abstinence from drink and food, sexual intercourse and, funny enough, cupping glasses (other bans are detailed by the Shariah) from the dawn to the moment when a black thread is indistinguishable from the white one out-of-doors. I.e no daylight.. Then comes the first meal after fasting when you may eat anything you like.

So the scholars of islam and the hadiths being ignorant of longitude and latitudes as well as the shape of the earths impact on day and night give this advice.."a black thread should be indistinguishable from the white one out-of-doors"

Now when Muslims moved to Norway, scotland and countries far up north above the equator and towards the north pole, they encountered 24 hour sunlight- of course Allah did not reveal to his prophet that he created lands of 24 hours daylight..

Interestingly all or part of Ramadan in Norway occurs during the 24 hour daylight time.

So devout muslims realized that they cannot observe Ramadan at that time. So their Imams modify allahs laws and come up with alternative observances to fasting.

Is this not prove that Mohammed made up this fasting rule being ignorant how day and night phenomenon occurs around the world. Allah didnt say hey mohammed , put some caveats because some regions have 24hrs day light..

Mohammed was a false prophet

Quite revealing sister !!!

The OP has proved islam to be false, no doubt. But the problem with the muslims is that their God's given intelligence has been taken over by jinns so that they cannot reason normally, otherwise the revelations coming on this platform are more than enough for all muslims to throw away the trash they call the quran.

Ramon92:
lol.. OK..I gave you facts which you can check up but u denied ur 'saviours', of which without the use of swords and chariots, Jesus would have been just an ordinary historical figure. Maybe the bible you follow and the Christianity u practice came into being anytime from d 1950s after the creation of the state of Israel.

now tell me, who's Jesus (who's against ordinary slapping) and who's God (who killed a man for refusing to strike a prophet of God, whom he asked the man to)and then commanded lions to eat d man in the name of the Lord.??

Google the difference(s) between Judaism and Christianity and get yourself satisfied. That is, if you are looking for knowledge and not mere argument.

Drinkwater06:
I asked a question, don't refer me to anywhere

I can't repeat myself. Who are you to order me?

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Drinkwater06:
Who ordered MOSES and other jihadist' in the OT to kill?

Read my ealier post here?

crusadistic
Go ask the kid near you to tell you the difference between burning a building and burning a human alive.

Your quote is false fabrication, it has no author.

Sorry,I forgot rams are your people

You are exhausted !!! Muhammad said he was slaughtering and you are saying no. Who is the liar between the two of you?

Ramon92:
Don't ignore ur shít to mock another's shít. Christianity matched Islam, even surpasses it in killing in the name of christ/allah..


really?? If you wanna go that route.. Reprisal attacks you say;
Luke 6:29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also..
Exodus 20:13 Thou shall not kill.

What happened to the concept of forgiveness?? As a loving and all powerful being, he could do whatever he wants without wars and casualties, don't you think?? And is there any war without death??


Now tell me, what was the population of the Canaanites? Or do you say they shouldn't fight those who first attacked them? They weren't supposed to..

Stop the nonsense !!!

Tell me where Christians are killing people across the world for not being Christians.

They were not supposed to attack people who wanted to exterminate them? How do you reason? People like you will return ordinary insult for insult, not to talk of slapping or beating you.

When Jesus said we should turn the right cheek after slapping the left, he wasn't talking of the use of weapons. Slapping is not the same as using sword.