₦airaland Forum

Scholar8200:
God does not rebuke that you may become lovable. He rebukes because He loves. Now, is hell fire a place of rebuke? or a place one gets to as a result of the choices made on earth?

That is as far as man is concerned. Man may withdraw/compromise judgement due to emotion etc but not with God. For example, David was a man after God's heart, but did God spare him from the consequence of his adultery and murder? Of Solomon, it was written:
and he called his name Solomon: and the Lord loved him.(2 Samuel 12:24b), but was he spared when he descended to idolatry?

Indeed, God is angry with the wicked everyday (Psalm 7:11), but that does not negate the fact that He, in love, withholds deserved judgement with the expectation that they will repent

The Lord does not delay and is not tardy or slow about what He promises, according to some people’s conception of slowness, but He is long-suffering (extraordinarily patient) toward you, not desiring that any should perish, but that all should turn to repentance.
2 Peter 3:9

and also

11 Say to them, As I live, says the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn back, turn back from your evil ways, for why will you die, O house of Israel?
Ezekiel 33:11

Now see love exuding therefrom! The Lord hates the wicked in the same way a parent will be very grieved and upset towards a child he/she loves but is bent on going the path of self-destruction! How do i know this? If it is a case of animosity or malice, then God would simply wipe them out sans chance or room/hope for repentance.

Scholar8200:
And what condition did they fulfill here before the highlighted was said:
7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

8 But because the Lord loved you,
Deuteronomy 7:7,8a

Hear God:

When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.


4[b] I drew them with cords of a man, with bands of love[/b]: and I was to them as they that take off the yoke on their jaws, and I laid meat unto them.
Hosea 11:1-4

The use of a child there is to illustrate the nature of love: a father does not love his kids because of some conditions they fulfill!

Scholar8200:
Speaking of covenant. But let's see this:

7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

8 But because the Lord loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the Lord brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

Deuteronomy 7:7,8

This was said before they even entered the land of promise. At this time were they faithful and obedient people? NO. See the condition of their hearts:

for I know their imagination which they go about, [size=14pt]even now, before I have brought them into the land which I sware.[/size]

And the Lord said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.


Deuteronomy 31:21b,16

Yet HE loved them still and commanded a song to be written that will serve as both a warning and a remembrance.

Scholar8200:
But the person chose hell when he chose to reject God inspite of all attempts to discourage that choice?!

A father does all he can to make sure his kids get educated but they choose to play truants and eventually become criminals/murderers and land in court, turns out their father was also the judge and he sentences them to death (the consequence of their actions as prescribed by the law), would you still blame the father for not loving them?

DID THE FATHER HATE THE SON WHEN HE MADE HIM BEAR THE CONSEQUENCES OF THE SIN OF THE WORLD?NO!

YES, HE WITHDREW HIS PRESENCE BUT DID HE WITHDRAW HIS LOVE? NO!

46 that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Matthew 27:46b

Scholar8200:
So, a law such as,"dont stay out late at night" given because the father knows the dangers that the child might be exposed to is a sign of a conditional love? I dont think so. Rather it is a sign of love. If the child disobeys and gets attacked, will you count that a punishment from the father?
Rather I see it as an expression of love that realizes that there are more than just you too in the whole universe and not all loves the child just as the father does! Besides the father's unconditional love calls for the rebuke. The father does not rebuke the son so that the latter would change and become lovable; he rebukes because he loves the son so much and would not bear to watch him destroy himself!

You rebuke your brother because you love him, crystal clear!

Not that you rebuke your brother so that he can become lovable when he changes. This is clear enough.

Now you may say God made the laws in this case but would you assume that love = lawlessness/nihilistic indulgence? Or that Love is meant to make us escape the consequence of our choices to be unconditional?

chistev12:
It is still there o!

malvisguy212:
it is the subject and not the object, let me give you an example, look at how terrorist are killing christians, isis and boko haram. is that Paul spells out the
kinds of things that cannot separate us from the love of Christ, and they are the sort of things that happened t Everyday: "Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or unclothedness, or peril, or sword?" The reason Paul chose to mention so many terrible things is to make sure we knew he was not saying: Well, there are some things so horrible that they really could separate us from the love of Christ. No. Nothing can separate us from Christ’s love.

Nor any other creature — Above or beneath, in heaven, earth, or hell: nothing beneath the Almighty. In this general clause the apostle includes whatever else could be named, as having any influence to separate believers from the love of God, exercised toward them through Christ: shall be able — Either by force, Romans 8:35, or by any legal claim, Romans 8:33, &c., to separate us from the love of God in Christ — Which will surely save, protect, and deliver us, who believe, and persevere so to do, i

malvisguy212:
it is the subject and not the object, let me give you an example, look at how terrorist are killing christians, isis and boko haram. is that Paul spells out the
kinds of things that cannot separate us from the love of Christ, and they are the sort of things that happened t Everyday: "Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or unclothedness, or peril, or sword?" The reason Paul chose to mention so many terrible things is to make sure we knew he was not saying: Well, there are some things so horrible that they really could separate us from the love of Christ. No. Nothing can separate us from Christ’s love.

shall be able to separate us the love of God, which is in Christ
Jesus our Lord:
by "the love of God", is not meant the saints' love to God; for though this is sometimes called the love of God, it is from him, as the author of it, and to him, as the object of it, and may be said to be in Christ, or by him, and can never be lost; yet the apostle would not have expressed such a strong confidence and full persuasion about this, and would rather have said, had this been his meaning, that nothing shall be able to separate our love from God, or God from our love, and not us from the love of God; besides, he is speaking of that love by which we are more than conquerors, and manifestly intends the love with which God loves his people, particularly the love of God the Father: and this is "in Christ Jesus our Lord"; he has expressed it in and through Christ, in choosing and blessing them in him, and in sending him to die for them; and it still continues in him, and is in him as their Lord, head, husband, and Redeemer; and is a reason why nothing can separate them from it: which is to be understood, not of the effects of love, and the application of it, which may be suspended for a time; nor of the manifestation and sense of it, which believers may be without for a while; nor of any sort of separation from God, for saints themselves may be separated from him, with respect to intimate sensible communion and fellowship; but the sense of this passage is, that they can never be separated from the love of God, so as that that union which is made by it between God and them can ever be dissolved, or they cease to have any share or interest in his love. This the apostle was persuaded could never be.

malvisguy212:
Very good, The bible God is different from the quranic allah. The bible say it not the will of God that ANY Should perish, but ALL should come to REPENTANCE. Going to hell does not mean God does not Love you,He love you that's why he provide way for you to chose. If you chose to go against God will, so it God fault ? God did not love you ? Well, that's not my god, the God I serve is different from the one you serve.

Allah is merciful to those who accept the truth, what about the unbelievers living among us ? Did Allah love them ?

udatso:
Here's another condition in the for the Bible God Love in the old testament
Deuteronomy 7:12-13

IF you pay attention to these laws and are careful to follow them (condition statement) then the LORD your God will keep his covenant of love with you, (execution statement) as he swore to your forefathers. He will love you and bless you and increase your numbers. He will bless the fruit of your womb, the crops of your land-your grain, new wine and oil-the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks in the land that he swore to your forefathers to give you.

Naijacitizen:
Go and check my last two topic. There are something similar to this.

As an old Nairalander, I know you for a very long time but chose not to engage with you. Because it is a waste of time.

If not because of some weak mended that are often visiting this site, I am sure our brothers. The like of Udatso, Rilwayne001, Demmzy15, and many other will abandoned you and your ilk. If they do, you will have succeed in misleading some weak souls. Because your tactic of murdering the truth is fantastically.

malvisguy212:
you give your own interpretation which is wrong, the verse did not say, man cannot separate us from God, the verse say say SUFFERING and PAIN cannot separate us from God love.

malvisguy212:
you give your own interpretation which is wrong, the verse did not say, man cannot separate us from God, the verse say say SUFFERING and PAIN cannot separate us from God love.

malvisguy212:
let me ask you, is it wrong for me to preach against sin and it consequence ? Does it mean, I don't love you just because I preach against sin and the punishment ?

You don't know what you are saying here,

that is why this atheist are in support with you,

so God should not cast anyone to hell ?

If Allah is merciful, why will he cast sinner to hell ? He is not merciful, the simple answer to this is, He is merciful that is why he is finding a way for you to escape the punishment of hell. If I did not known you, I would've ask , are you an atheist ?

udatso:
Probably you need to take a look at thIs :

Romans 8:38-39

38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[a] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
This clearly tells us that there are those who will be separated from the love of God. In summary, the Bible God doesn't love everyone.

Yes. No one is blaming God. But the obvious truth you are trying to avoid is that THE MAN LOST THE LOVE OF GOD BECAUSE OF HIS ACTIONS. I.E GOD DIDNT LOVE HIM= NOT ALL ARE LOVED BY GOD

udatso:
Probably you need to take a look at thIs :

Romans 8:38-39

38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[a] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
This clearly tells us that there are those who will be separated from the love of God. In summary, the Bible God doesn't love everyone.

Yes. No one is blaming God. But the obvious truth you are trying to avoid is that THE MAN LOST THE LOVE OF GOD BECAUSE OF HIS ACTIONS. I.E GOD DIDNT LOVE HIM= NOT ALL ARE LOVED BY GOD



@ bold: that's what we call condition statement
In programming If(Condition statement is satisfied ){
Do so did and so};
Else{do so so and so }


For exampleif(human==believer){
receive God's love
}else{
No love
}





Modified
Malvisguy212

Scholar8200:
So, a law such as,"dont stay out late at night" given because the father knows the dangers that the child might be exposed to is a sign of a conditional love? I dont think so. Rather it is a sign of love. If the child disobeys and gets attacked, will you count that a punishment from the father?

Rather I see it as an expression of love that realizes that there are more than just you too in the whole universe and not all loves the child just as the father does! Besides the father's unconditional love calls for the rebuke. The father does not rebuke the son so that the latter would change and become lovable; he rebukes because he loves the son so much and would not bear to watch him destroy himself!

You rebuke your brother because you love him, crystal clear!

Scholar8200:
This your definition of love looks like love has no room for truth!

Would you consider a father unloving if he whacks/sternly rebukes a son bent on following the path of self-destruction? Love expresses itself by rebuke , correction and instruction for the good of the receiver.

Scholar8200:
On judgement day, they will be allowed to face the consequence of the choice they made as it will be unjust to deny them while allowing the devil! They chose the way of the devil and would justly be released to share his destination! Would God do this in hatred? NO! He loves them, but would not be unjust towards ANY!

udatso:
Probably you need to take a look at thIs :

Romans 8:38-39

38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[a] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
This clearly tells us that there are those who will be separated from the love of God. In summary, the Bible God doesn't love everyone.

Yes. No one is blaming God. But the obvious truth you are trying to avoid is that THE MAN LOST THE LOVE OF GOD BECAUSE OF HIS ACTIONS. I.E GOD DIDNT LOVE HIM= NOT ALL ARE LOVED BY GOD

malvisguy212:
do you know what the verse is saying ? I doubt that. Suffering cannot separate me from the love of God, not even death. Pain and suffering did not separate job from God. That's what the verse is saying.

malvisguy212:
I remove it because that was his own opinion.

malvisguy212:
because you are a canal man, you don't understand the scripture. Do you think God love violence ? God hate it, if we are to be judge through the law, NON is worthy to be save. But because God Love is unconditional, that is why He provide a way which man can be save. If God does not love the unbelievers, then how can a sinner be save ? Bible say "He first Love us while we were YET sinner, christ die for us"

malvisguy212:
an atheist know unconditional love more than a muslim ? Smh. If you Love me unconditionally, you will find a way to save me from punishment that is coming my way.

ifenes:
Unconditional love means loving without condition. It simply implies the absence of judgement and punishment. It also implies being capable of allowing people we love make decisions which opposes our views without judging them. These kind of love is absent in Christianity.

malvisguy212:
If you read scholar post very well, you will not say this. This is what he say:

"Does God love those who rejects Christ? Yes.

Does His Love mean He will alter His Justice to
accommodate their rebellion? NO (else satan
deserves an unreserved apology and a
reinstatement!). If a man rejects God's
revelation about Jesus and dies and finds
himself in the devil's destination, who do we
blame? The man!"

malvisguy212:
who is talking about judgment day here ? The quran say allah does not love the unbelievers.

malvisguy212:
if you read the op , you wouldn't have ask this question. It looks like muslims are double stander in their argument, rilwayn say the quran correct the bible and now you are saying no, don't compear the two books. The brother did not provide a single verse that talk about unconditional love for sinners and saint's.

usmantoafiq:
yes she is wrong. we can't allow anyone insult our noble prophet and go free. we are religion of peace does not mean we won't be brutal if anyone insult Islam. Christians are pushing us to the wall

Scholar8200:
I wish you got a quote from those who used the term, at least that's where I would have loved to start from. What I know is that of Grace that we do not work for nor deserve but when received (by Faith in Jesus Christ) transforms our lives. This Grace is unlimited - not given by measure nor with prejudice.

Would you mind telling us which passage your respondents normally coin that term-unconditional love -from?

But considering the Love of God, I would refer you to the parable of the prodigal son.

Did the father love the prodigal son? Yes! Did the father's love prevent the prodigal from the consequences of his decision? NO! If the prodigal had refused to return to the father and died in the field among the swines, do we blame the father for not loving the prodigal son as a father should? NO!
But the prodigal returns to the father and we see a Love that yearns after the rebellious and does all possible to influence his decision homewards but remember, he is a free moral agent and the Father will not violate that principle by use of force !

Does God love those who rejects Christ? Yes. Does His Love mean He will alter His Justice to accommodate their rebellion? NO (else satan deserves an unreserved apology and a reinstatement!). If a man rejects God's revelation about Jesus and dies and finds himself in the devil's destination, who do we blame? The man!

malvisguy212:
I don't know how to quote post by post. But wait, are you trying to say God Love is not unconditional because the quran does not thought unconditional love ? Or do you think God will ignore sins because his love is unconditional ? Context give meaning in every explanation, you cannot mix the context in which God judge sin with the one He talk about unconditional love, NO my friend. Just because you Love your wife unconditional does not mean you will not punish her if she do evil.

malvisguy212:
the op said website dictionary, what does it imply here ? Is dictionary bible ? That why in my post I keep on repeating it "biblical speaking" dictionary is not bible. So because God love is unconditional , God should not judge sin ? Very funny muslims.