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IslamRe: Why Did Muhammad's Name Appear In Hindus Scripture? by udatso:
We reply you, you call us liars. We keep quiet, you claim victory. Its difficult to please FOOLS.

Christianity EtcRe: A Question To My Muslim Brothers. Be Honest Please. by udatso: 8:44am On Jul 11, 2016
Rilwon has done justice to thE questions.
@ 4evergod2 I hope your questions have been answered?

Jazakallahu khairan
Christianity EtcRe: About This Church That Gave Muslims Their Compound To Pray (what Do You Think) by udatso: 6:50am On Jul 09, 2016
Hahaha
Christianity EtcRe: Win A Soul For Allah: Lexiconkabi And Other Muslims, Please Enter by udatso: 10:06pm On Jul 07, 2016
Oladim001
No matter the temptation to reply those guys, you should have ignored. Now you have been successfully dragged into a fruitless argument. ..lets only contribute to Obadiah questions if need be or add to answers already provided.

Engaging him in a silly argument won't only waste your time but derail the thread
Barka Dasallah brother
CelebritiesRe: Late Bukky Ajayi For Burial Today by udatso: 10:02am On Jul 07, 2016
tartar9:
arrrrgh.... was being sarcastic at @MakeWeTalk and co insensitive comment.
Thought so too. But don't you think that was a bad time to be sarcastic.
CelebritiesRe: Late Bukky Ajayi For Burial Today by udatso: 5:56pm On Jul 06, 2016
tartar9
Have you been hacked? Your comment is disturbing

May Allah have mercy on her
IslamRe: Happy Eid al Fitr To My Brothers And Sisters On NL by udatso: 9:41am On Jul 06, 2016
lexiconkabir:
Salam aleikom oh brothers and sisters in Islam, cheesy, it brings me joy as i wish you all a happy celebration of today's eid, may Allah reward us completed with good for the just concluded Ramadan, i pray to Allah that we see more, but most importantly if we die we should be granted Al-jannatul Firdaus just as the prophet recommended, hope we get the full rewards for todays eid, most importantly Allah should always keep us to the straight path which we always ask for in our five daily prayers and I greet you just as the sahabas did to eachother in times of eid, Taqabbal Allaahu minna wa minkum (May Allaah accept (this worship) from us and from you), Amin.

HAPPY EID AL FITR, E SE JEJE OOOOO!!!!! Dont overfeed oooo........grin grin cheesy

Mightyraw(m), Ramwab94(m), TaiKuun(m), AllstarZ(m), mrquleak(m), haliruali(m), Arisheloaded(m), eherbal(m), WORDWORLD, DeathStroke007(m), Mrreed(m), mubarakopeyemi(m), IdisuleOurOwn(m), carinmom(f), haffaze777(m), Demmzy15(m), klickash077(m), sawsaw(m), mukina2, sissie, maclantunji, udatso, Aminat508, Empiree, Rilwayne001, Newnas, eitsei(m), gokay11(m), Khodry(m), demmyzenny(m) lagusta, contact17, sino, yahmohy27, Antina, Damjoy, gaffig, HaneefahRN, bursar, Topestbility, Teeminjin, mrolai, oladim001, dominique, Aareonakakanfo, And to All my brothers and sister out there in islam,

Assalamu Aleikom warahmatAllahi Wabarakatuhu.
Same to you brother. May Allah accept our saum and all other ibadaat
IslamRe: If U Are A Muslim, Pls Come Over Here. Muslims Only. by udatso: 9:38am On Jul 06, 2016
haffaze777:
If you can't do what I ask u to do just forget about it,do u know what it means to be a Muslims?all those u mentioned are Muslims simply because d laid down rule to be a Muslims are followed by dem all (1)tawheed (2)as salat (3)as zakat (4)As saum ramadan (5)hajj.now tell me d different between any of d sets u mentioned above if all of dem believe all d five pillars dat make one muslim

Eid il mubarak to all my Muslim brothers and sisters all over the world

Cc:ypeace

Nadheer15

HaneefahRN

IdisuleOurOwn

Newnas


fedex01

Visitor700

auwalmandela


Ferebiekun

mubarakopeyemi


tartar9

lexiconkabir

vicadex07

mustymatic

tola9ja

Demmzy15

yazach

udatso


9jaforlife

Empiree

lanrexlan

harbiola1

AlBaqir

Rilwayne001

Aminat508

Carinmom

Omotayor
Happy eidul fitr ya akh and to other ikhwaani fillahi
Christianity EtcRe: Easter Quiz For Christians, Test Your Knowledge; Atheists Are Also Welcome by udatso: 10:09pm On Jul 05, 2016
hopefulLandlord:
Bible is the infallible, divinely-inspired word of God, right? The entire Christian religion is based on the resurrection of the Christ - so we know that part of the Good Book will be very accurate! The very crux of the argument for Christianity being the one true religion is that it is the only religion in which the Saviour actually rose from the dead to fulfill prophecy- so let's have a little fun:

Father Dan's Easter Quiz:

1. Who first came to the tomb on Sunday morning?
a. one woman (John 20:1)
b. two women (Matt. 28:1)
c. three women (Mark 16:1)
d. more than three women (Luke 23:55-56; 24:1,10)

2. She (they) came
a. while it was still dark (Matt. 28:1; John 20:1)
b. after the sun had risen (Mark 16:2)

3. The woman (women) came to the tomb
a. to anoint the body of Jesus with spices (Mark 16:1-2; Luke 24:1)
b. just to look at it (Matt. 28:1; John 20:1 )

4. The women had obtained the spices
a. on Friday before sunset (Luke 23:54-56; 24:1)
a. after sunset on Saturday (Mark 16:1)

5. The first visitor(s) was/were greeted by
a. an angel (Matt. 28:2-5)
b. a young man (Mark 16:5)
c. two men (Luke 24:4)
d. no one (John 20:1-2)

6. The greeter(s)
a. was sitting on the stone outside the tomb (Matt 28:2)
b. was sitting inside the tomb (Mark 16:5)
c. were standing inside the tomb (Luke 24:3-4)

7. After finding the tomb empty, the woman/women
a. ran to tell the disciples (Matt. 28:7-8; Mark 16:10; Luke 24:9; John 20:2)
b. ran away and said nothing to anyone (Mark 16:8 )

8. The risen Jesus first appeared to
a. Mary Magdalene alone (John 20:14; Mark 16:9)
b. Cleopas and another disciple (Luke 24:13,15,18)
c. Mary Magdalene and the other Mary (Matt. 28:1,9)
d. Cephas (Peter) alone (1 Cor. 15:4-5; Luke 24:34)

9. Jesus first appeared
a. somewhere between the tomb and Jerusalem (Matt. 28:8-9)
b. Just outside the tomb (John 20:11-14)
c. in Galilee - some 80 miles (130 Km) north of Jerusalem (Mark 16:6-7)
d. on the road to Emmaus - Miles (11 Km) west of Jerusalem (Luke 24:13-15)
e. we are not told where (Mark 16:9; 1 Cor. 15:4-5)

10. The disciples were to see Jesus first
a. in Galilee (Mark 16:7; Matt. 28:7,10,16)
b. in Jerusalem (Mark 16:14; Luke 24:33,36; John 20:19; Acts 1:4)

11. the disciples were told that they would meet the risen Jesus in Galilee
a. by the women, who had been told by an angel of the Lord, then by Jesus himself after the resurrection (Matt. 28:7-10; Mark 16:7)
b. by Jesus himself, before the crucifiction (Mark 26:32)

12. The risen Jesus
a. wanted to be touched (John 20:27)
b. did not want to be touched (John 20:17)
c. did not mind being touched (Matt. 28:9-10)

13. Jesus ascended to Heaven
a. the same day that he was resurrected (Mark 16:9,19; Luke 24:13,28-36,50-51)
b. forty days after the resurrection (Acts 1:3,9)
c. we are not told that he ascended to Heaven at all (Matt. 28:10, 16-20; John 21:25; the original Gospel of Mark ends at 16:8 )

14. The disciples received the Holy Spirit
a. 50 days after the resurrection (Acts 1:3,9)
b. in the evening of the same day as the resurrection (John 20:19-22)

15. The risen Jesus
a. was recognized by those who saw him (Matt. 28:9; Mark 16:9-10 )
b. was not always recognizable (Mark 16:12; Luke 24:15-16,31,36-37; John 20:14-15 )

16. The risen Jesus
a. was physical (Matt. 28:9; Luke 24:41-43; John 20:27 )
b. was not physical (Mark 16:9,12,14; Luke 24:15-16,31,36-37; John 20:19,26; 1 Cor. 15:5-8 )

17. The risen Jesus was seen by the disciples
a. presumably only once (Matt. 28:16-17 )
b. first by two of them, later by all eleven (Mark 16:12-14; Luke 24:13-15,33,36-51 )
c. three times (John 20:19,26; 21:1,14)
d. many times (Acts 1:3 )

18. When Jesus appeared to the disciples
a. there were eleven of them (Matt. 28:16-17; Luke 24:33,36)
b. twelve of them (1 Cor. 15:5 )


Hey, when has religion ever let facts or figures get in the way of a good quote. If this quiz has in any way shaken your faith, simply open the Bible and pull out sentences at random that make you feel good or (completely out of context) reaffirm any belief you want to hold.
IslamRe: If U Are A Muslim, Pls Come Over Here. Muslims Only. by udatso: 12:20pm On Jul 05, 2016
And that was how Anas09 was silenced.
Christianity EtcRe: Win A Soul For Allah: Lexiconkabi And Other Muslims, Please Enter by udatso: 11:36am On Jul 05, 2016
lexiconkabir:
Actually no, you can as well contribute and any other Muslim.
I was about to advice other brothers to leave him for you so the attention won't be divided. You are doing a great job. Ride on.
Please ignore the NOISE MAKERS
Christianity EtcRe: Win A Soul For Allah: Lexiconkabi And Other Muslims, Please Enter by udatso: 11:27am On Jul 05, 2016
Lexiconkabir
Does your request of you being the only one to attend to him still stand?
IslamRe: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by udatso: 11:39am On Jul 03, 2016
May Allah protect is from misguidance
Christianity EtcRe: I Am On The Verge Of Giving Up by udatso: 11:23am On Jul 03, 2016
Demmzy15:
I could remember when I had a discussion with this op when he probably still had some inclination to Christianity @ https://www.nairaland.com/3120635/christianity-vs-islam-which-older/1 but look at today. He's confused, Rilwon lexiconkabir, udatso, another one o. True2god, annunaki2, truthman2012 Ifeann, etc why not help your brother, these are people who need help not Muslims grin grin grin

Christianity is a goner on Nairaland! See 6 million converts o
Even though he sounds like a Christian, It is not Quite clear If he is dissapointed in Christianity Or in God.
IslamRe: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by udatso: 9:13am On Jul 02, 2016
lexiconkabir:
Where is that hadith? I just hope you dont bring the hadith i have in mind.
It doesn't matter. You believe what you wish, I believe mine
IslamRe: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by udatso: 9:04am On Jul 02, 2016
lexiconkabir:
Easy brother, what you gave initially was 4351 not 4353, moreover this is 4353

The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) Said: The blood of a Muslim man who testifies that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle should not lawfully be shed except only for one of three reasons: a man who committed fornication after marriage, in which case he should be stoned; one who goes forth to fight with Allah and His Apostle, in which case he should be killed or crucified or exiled from the land; or one who commits murder for which he is killed
Maybe my hadith app must have given me the wrong reference. Snapshot below

Smh, i don't have anything else to say, you can hold on to your vviews while i hold on to mine.
I see

IslamRe: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by udatso: 8:56am On Jul 02, 2016
lexiconkabir:
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “It is not permissible to shed the blood of a Muslim who bears witness that there is no god except Allaah and that I am His Messenger, except in one of three cases: a soul for a soul (i.e., in the case of murder); a married man who commits adultery; [size=18]and one who leaves his religion and splits form the jamaa’ah[/size]” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 6878; Muslim, 1676)
The issue of Stoning a married Woman is a similar issue as this. I wouldnt go into that yet
In this hadith you quoted, why is there a condition. And what does the condition mean. Your other hadith of Buhari doesn't give condition. It tells you to kill anyone who leaves Islam



Ok, then dont take hadith that said isa(a.s) will be back seriously, or the hadith that talks on dajjal, because they are not in the Quran.
Don't be ridiculous brother, we are talking about hudud here . And am not a Quranite. I just don't take hadith that contradicts the Quran.
Simpler issues of theft, zina all have their punishment prescribed in the Quran, howAnd when they are carried out detailed in thE hadith.
Apostasy doesn't follow this procedure.
IslamRe: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by udatso: 8:42am On Jul 02, 2016
lexiconkabir:
I asked for the reference of the hadith where Ali said woe to ibn abbass, not this.
«4353» حَدَّثَنَا أَحْمَدُ بْنُ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ حَنْبَلٍ حَدَّثَنَا إِسْمَاعِيلُ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ أَخْبَرَنَا أَيُّوبُ عَنْ عِكْرِمَةَ أَنَّ عَلِيًّا عَلَيْهِ السَّلاَمُ أَحْرَقَ نَاسًا ارْتَدُّوا عَنِ الإِسْلاَمِ فَبَلَغَ ذَلِكَ ابْنَ عَبَّاسٍ فَقَالَ لَمْ أَكُنْ لأَحْرِقَهُمْ بِالنَّارِ إِنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قَالَ: ((لاَ تُعَذِّبُوا بِعَذَابِ اللَّهِ)). وَكُنْتُ قَاتِلَهُمْ بِقَوْلِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ فَإِنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قَالَ: ((مَنْ بَدَّلَ دِينَهُ فَاقْتُلُوهُ)). فَبَلَغَ ذَلِكَ عَلِيًّا عَلَيْهِ السَّلاَمُ فَقَالَ وَيْحَ ابْنَ عَبَّاسٍ.

If you cant see theويح ابن عباس، I don't know what else I would show you

I will keep saying this, we take rulings from the Quran, and the Sahih Ahadith, if we check the Quran for a ruling and it's silent about it, then we go to hadith, and if its also silent, then we will be silent, but if one of them is not silent, then we must follow the one that talked on it, since BOTH ARE REVELATIONS FROM ALLAH.

I dont know how to say this again, so you guys will understand.
It's true we take rulings from the Quran and hadith. But Quran comes first, they aren't equal in authenticity. Quran stated cases one may be killed and didn't give room for other instances . Then a hadith comes to tell us something else, that's contradiction
And the Quran wasn't silent on apostate, Worldly punishment wasn't prescribed For it in the Quran. Why can't you accept this to mean no punishment for apostate in this dunya Based on Quran ? Especially when the hadith Saying other wise go against 5:32
IslamRe: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by udatso: 8:26am On Jul 02, 2016
Contact17:
There is only three instances where people should be killed
1) A person who murdered someone intentionally
2) An person who commits adultery
3) An apostate
Whats the quranic verse for these three points you just mentioned cos in the Quran according to
Qur`an 5:32-33, 45, 2:178

In 5:32, after relating the story of the murder of Habil by his brother Qabil, God says:
On that account We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole humanity: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the whole humanity. Then although there came to them Our Messengers with clear (guidance), yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. (5:32)
In the context of an emphasis on preserving the life of each and every individual the above verse mentions only two crimes for which a person can be killed:

1) Murdering another human being;
2) Spreading mischief (fasad) in the land.

Nowhere else the Qur`an mentions any other crime for which the death penalty is considered.
I know you might say, hadith is a lso a source of Sharia in Islam. Yes that's true but in all other punishments for crimes, they have a base in the Quran before they are now explained in details in the hadith. This case isn't so. Besides, Rasulullah sallallahu alaihi WA sallam in a hadith left an apostate walk free
IslamRe: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by udatso: 8:12am On Jul 02, 2016
TheDevilIsALai:
Your prophet waged a so called holy war to force the polytheist Arabs through pure terror to submit to his god Allah and his religion.


The word Islam translates to submission.

Submission is not a voluntary action but one induced by superior force .


The Koran is very clear on apostasy and Islamic countries like Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen have criminal codes drawn form the Sharia that specify death as punishment for those who stray out of Islam .

This is fact.
This thread was meant for Muslims. Non Muslims are to watch and observe
IslamRe: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by udatso: 8:10am On Jul 02, 2016
lexiconkabir:
.

.



Please give the correct reference to this hadith, the abu dawood i have with me says


"The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) forbade riding the camel which feeds on filth and drinking its milk."
In book reference book 40, Hadith 1
Sunan Abu dawud 4351

How does this contradict the hadith i broufht from bukhari? Or maybe I'm missing something
Did Allah say " wow to ibn Abbas " or "ibn Abbas has spoken the truth "?


So far, i am yet to see the hadith that cobtradict that of bukhari, or maybe I'm missing what you wanted me to see....if i am pls let me know.
I just pointed it out
IslamRe: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by udatso: 8:02am On Jul 02, 2016
Newnas:
This apologetic Islam people are practicing is very disappointing and annoying.

The sunnah explains the Quran not you. The hadith says the ruling of a matter is so and so, some of us try to dodge it to please the people.

Know this, no matter how much you manipulate and apologize to the disbelievers, the one who will die on his stray path will not believe.
This isnt about what the unbelievers think about Islam. If a Muslim irtadda and causes mischief, he should be executed. If non Muslims like, they say all sort of rubbish as they please.
This is you guys taking the words of ulama as sealed and concluded as they cannot make mistake and therefore no need to review them. They aren't messengers or prophets of Allah. This is you guys believing that once a sahih, Always a sahih even when new evidences come in.
IslamRe: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by udatso: 7:58am On Jul 02, 2016
lexiconkabir:
Sorry if i misunderstood that statement, but could you explain better?
We have the sayings of Allah Which is no doubt truest of all truth where certain people's blood can be shed. Apostasy is not one of them. We have a hadith(a narration attributed to rasulullah which may be or may Not be true) With a contrary view to that of the Quran. In this case I don't take that hadith seriously unless there's a quranic verse supporting it.
IslamRe: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by udatso: 7:49am On Jul 02, 2016
lexiconkabir:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=lRB3snGxgns

^^ Thats Dr Abu Ameenah bilal Phillips, watch the video, and digest it, whatever his views are, is exactly what I'm trying to put up, dont watch in a hurry.
Dr bilal gives reason why they should be executed if you study his examples correctly. That is treasonous behaviour from them. But your stand is clear which is kill any murtad Muslim. It doesn't matter if he has harm the Muslims or not.
Here's Dr zakir naik's view

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROVoBYAoKsE
Here's shabir Allyvs view too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4GK2I6GMcc
IslamRe: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by udatso: 12:49am On Jun 29, 2016
@ lexiconkabir
I will reply you InshaAllah
@ newnas
It's not about pleasing the people
IslamRe: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by udatso: 6:20pm On Jun 26, 2016
lexiconkabir:
But wait! @embolden, i hope i read that right?
There was a context to the embolden, taking it in seclusion isn't fair to me ya akh
IslamRe: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by udatso: 6:09pm On Jun 26, 2016
lexiconkabir:
Bring these Ahadith, lets see them,

But wait! @embolden, i hope i read that right?
.(A)
“WHOEVER CHANGED HIS RELIGION, KILL HIM”

As should become clear in the sequel, the only hadith that legislates or prescribes as a law the death penalty for apostasy is found, with some variations, in Bukhari 2794, 6411, Abu Da`ud 3787, Tirmidhi 1378, Nasa`i 3991-7, Ibn Majah 2526, Ahmad 1776, 2420, 2813 (cf. Ahmad 1802). All these narrations are identical or similar to one of the following five narrations:
A-I)
Abu al-Nu‘man Muhammad ibn al-Fadl related to us: Hammad ibn Zayd related to us from Ayyub from ‘‘Ikrimah who said: “Some Zanadiqah were brought to ‘Ali and he burnt them. This reached Ibn ‘Abbas and he said: I would not have burnt them because of the prohibition by the Messenger of God: ‘Do not punish with the punishment of God.’ I would have killed them in accordance with the word of the Messenger of God: ‘Whoever changed his religion kill him’.” (Bukhari 9/57=6411)
Narrations similar to the above are also found in Bukhari 2794, Nasa`i 3992, Abu Da`ud 3787, and Ahmad 1775, 2420.
A-II)
Ahmad ibn Muhammad bin Hanbal related to us: Isma‘il bin Ibrahim related to us: Ayyub informed us from ‘Ikrimah that ‘Ali, peace be upon him, burned some people who abandoned Islam. This reached Ibn ‘Abbas and he said: I would not have burnt them with fire. Indeed, the Messenger of God said: ‘Do not punish with the punishment of God.’ I would have killed them in accordance with the word of the Messenger of God. For, surely the Messenger of God said: ‘Whoever changed his religion kill him’.” This reached ‘Ali, peace be upon him, and he said: ‘Woe to Ibn ‘Abbas’. (Abu Da`ud 3787)
A-III)
Ahmad ibn ‘Abdah al-Dabbi al-Basri related to us: ‘Abd al-Wahhab al-Thaqafi related to us: Ayyub related to us from ‘Ikrimah that ‘Ali burned some people who abandoned Islam. This reached Ibn ‘Abbas and he said: I would have killed them in accordance with the word of the Messenger of God: ‘Whoever changed his religion kill him’. I would not have burnt them in view of the word of the Messenger of God: ‘Do not punish with the punishment of God.’ This reached ‘Ali and he said: Ibn ‘Abbas has spoken the truth” (Tirmidhi 1378)
A-IV)
Muhammad bin Muthanna informed us saying: ‘Abd al-Samad related to us saying: Hisham related to us from Qatadah from Anas that ‘Ali was brought with people from al-Zatt who worshipped idols and he burnt them. Ibn ‘Abbas said: The Messenger of God said exactly: Whoever changed his religion kill him. (Nasa`i 3997)
A narration similar to the above is also found in Ahmad 2813.
A-V)
حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى عَنْ مَالِك عَنْ زَيْدِ بْنِ أَسْلَمَ أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قَالَ مَنْ غَيَّرَ دِينَهُ فَاضْرِبُوا عُنُقَهُ

Yahya related to me from Malik from Zayd bin Aslam that the Messenger of God said: “Whoever changed his religion strike his neck” (Muwatta 1219)
Narrations similar to the above, quoting only the words “Whoever changed his religion …” are also found in Nasa`i 3991, 3993-6, and Ibn Majah 2526.
IslamRe: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by udatso: 1:47pm On Jun 26, 2016
lexiconkabir:
Islam is not a religion of hypocrisy, if you are asked a question about your beliefs, you dont have to hide it in order to impress the kuffar, thats hypocrisy.
Actually, killing apostates in an Islamic state when they haven't committed any treasonable offences is encouraging hypocrisy.
I ask again, have you seen other variations of this hadith you quoted that are classed sahih hadith?
Taking a life of another is not a simple act to be easily ignored especially when the hadith that talk about them are questionable. If Quran isn't in support of killing and the only hadith we have are either not detailed enough or confusing, I see no reason why such hadith should be taken as a revelation.
IslamRe: The Punishment Of Apostasy In Islam Part Ii by udatso(op): 12:36pm On Jun 26, 2016
b) In D-V the Prophet does not order the execution; only hoped that someone would kill the man. This is no way to establish and execute penalties for crimes.

c) Both narrations are weakened by the obvious contradictions between them and by the fact that both have narrators who are not very strong.

In D-IV, one narrator is ‘Ali who is described by some scholars as da‘if al-hadith. Another narrator is ‘Ikrimah whose weakness we have already documented.
In D-V also there are two narrators who have received negative comments:
Ahmad bin al-Mufaddal – munkar al-hadith.
Al-Suddi – fi hadith hi du‘f. And Abu Da`ud himself does not seem to trust al-Suddi. He uses the word “claimed” for him rather than “said” or “related”.
‘Ikrimah Again
Aswe noted earlier, in D-V the Prophet does not order the execution of ‘Abd Allah bin Abi Sarh while in D-IV he does. It is of great interest to note that D-IV comes from ‘Ikrimah from Ibn ‘Abbas. This is of course the same ‘Ikrimah who transmitted the only hadith in which the Prophet prescribes the death penalty for apostasy. Thus once again ‘Ikrimah is associated with the death penalty for apostasy.
It is reasonable to think that in earlier narration there was no order by the Prophet to execute ‘Abd Allah bin Abi Sarh. But ‘Ikrimah, ever keen to attribute the death penalty for apostasy to the Prophet, has changed the earlier story and introduced a prophetic order to execute ‘Abd Allah bin Abi Sarh. It is also possible that some later narrator – ‘Ali or his father -- has introduced the order for ‘Abd Allah’s execution and attributed the hadith to ‘Ikrimah because he knew that ‘Ikrimah narrated ahadith prescribing the death penalty for apostasy. After the introduction of ‘Ikrimah into the isnad, it was easy to bring along Ibn ‘Abbas because ‘Ikrimah often attributed his ahadith to Ibn ‘Abbas.

http://islamicperspectives.com/PunishmentOfApostasy_Part2.html
IslamRe: The Punishment Of Apostasy In Islam Part Ii by udatso(op): 12:28pm On Jun 26, 2016
D-V)
‘Uthman bin Abi Shaybah related to us: Ahmad bin al-Mufaddal related to us: Asbat bin Nasr related to us saying: al-Suddi claimed (za‘ama) from Mus‘ab bin Sa‘d from Sa‘d who said: On the day of the Conquest of Makkah ‘Abd Allah bin Abi Sarh hid himself with ‘Uthman bin ‘Affan. He came with him and made him stand before the Prophet and then said: O Messenger of God! Accept the allegiance of ‘Abd Allah. He raised his head three times, each time refusing him. Then he accepted his allegiance after the third time. He then turned to his Companions and said: “Was not there among you a right-minded man who would have stood to this one when I had withheld my hand from accepting his allegiance and killed him?” They said: “We did not know what you were thinking in your heart, O Messenger of God! Why did you not give us a signal with your eye?” He said: “It is not fitting for a prophet to hoodwink by the eyes.” (Abu Da`ud 3793; see also Nasa`i 3999)


Is ‘Abd Allah bin Abi Sarh mentioned in the two narrations, D-IV and D-V, the same man as the previous three narrations? In favor of the identity of the two men is the fact that both are said to write for the Prophet. It is not likely that the Prophet, a very good judge of characters, would twice choose such bad characters to write the word of God. Against the identity of the two men is the fact that the stories about the two men are very different and that in D-V it is not mentioned that ‘Abd Allah bin Abi Sarh used to write for the Prophet.
In any case the narrations do not support the death penalty for apostasy for the following reasons:
a) In D-IV the Prophet orders the execution of ‘Abd Allah bin Abi Sarh but it is not clear whether this order is for apostasy or for some other actions also. Moreover, the order was not executed, since man was given protection. For a prescribed penalty there is no such protection. The Prophet’s attitude towards a prescribed penalty reportedly was that he would apply it even if his daughter Fatimah committed the crime.
IslamRe: The Punishment Of Apostasy In Islam Part Ii by udatso(op): 12:21pm On Jun 26, 2016
D-III)
Yazid bin Harun related to us: Humayd informed us from Anas that a man used to write for the Prophet. He had read al-Baqarah and Al ‘Imran. And the man when he read al-Baqarah and Al ‘Imran became important among us. But when the Prophet would dictate to him “forgiving, merciful” he would write “knowing, wise”. The Prophet would say, Write thus and thus. Write as you like. He would dictate to him, “knowing, wise” and he would say, I will write “hearing, seeing”. He would say: Write. Write as you want. Then this man turned away from Islam and joined the mushrikun. And he said I know Muhammad more than you do. I used to write what I wanted. Then this man died. The Prophet said, the earth will not accept this man. Anas said, Abu Talha told me that he went to the land where this man died and found him thrown out. So Abu Talha said (to the people), What is the matter with this man. They said, We buried him many times, but the earth does not accept him. (Ahmad 11769; see also Ahmad 13084)


The narrators Yazid bin Harun (d. 206) and Humayd (d. 142) are trustworthy, at least to the extent that they are acceptable to Bukhari. Yet the narration has obvious problem: the Prophet seems to be willing to let the man write what he wanted, something clearly impossible and very insulting to the Prophet.
In the above three narrations a man clearly commits apostasy but no order of his execution or punishment in any other way is given by the Prophet. He only predicts that the man will be rejected by the earth. In Bukhari and Muslim he does not even make this prediction. He says nothing about the man and lets God deal with him.

D-IV)
Ahmad bin Muhammad al-Marwazi related to us: ‘Ali ibn al-Husayn bin Waqid related to us from his father from Yazid al-Nahwi from ‘Ikrimah from Ibn ‘Abbas who said: ‘Abd Allah bin Abi Sarh used to write for the Messenger of God but Shaytan made him slip and he joined the disbelievers. The Messenger of God ordered his execution on the day of the conquest (of Makkah). But ‘Uthman bin ‘Affan sought protection for him and the Messenger of God granted it to him. (Abu Da`ud 3792, see also Nasa`i 4001)
IslamRe: The Punishment Of Apostasy In Islam Part Ii by udatso(op): 12:17pm On Jun 26, 2016
(D)
ANOTHER APOSTATE NOT EXECUTED

We earlier discussed the well-attested case of the Bedouin apostate who was not punished by death or in any other way. Some less reliable ahadith mention other cases of apostates who were not executed. We now briefly examine these ahadith...

D-I)
Muhammad bin Rafi‘ related to us: Abu Nadr related to us: Sulayman (ibn al-Mughirah) related to us from Thabit from Anas bin Malik who said: There was among us a man from Banu al-Najjar who had read Surah al-Baqarah and Al ‘Imran and used to write for the Messenger of God but later on he departed in flight and joined the people of the book. They gave him lift saying, This is he who used to write for Muhammad. And they felt good about him. He did not live for long when God struck his neck among them. They dug for him and buried him. By the morning the earth threw him on its top. They again dug for him and buried him but by the morning the earth again threw him on its top. They dug for him yet again and buried him but by the morning the earth threw him again on its top. So they left him discarded. (Muslim 6/360 = 4987; Ahmad 12846 also from Sulayman with the same isnad and very similar wording)

D-II)
Abu Ma‘mar related to us: ‘Abd al-Warith related to us: ‘Abd al-‘Aziz related to us from Anas: There was a Christian who embraced Islam and read Surah al-Baqarah and Al ‘Imran. He used to write for the Prophet but later on he reverted to Christianity and started to say: "Muhammad knows nothing but what I have written for him." Then God caused him to die, and the people buried him, but by the morning the earth had thrown his body out. They said, "This is the act of Muhammad and his Companions. They dug the grave of our companion and took his body out of it because he had run away from them." They again dug the grave for him, making it deep, but by the morning the earth had thrown his body out. They said, "This is an act of Muhammad and his Companions. They dug the grave of our companion and threw his body outside it, for he had run away from them." They once again dug the grave for him as deep as they could, but by the morning the earth had again thrown his body out. So they believed that what had befallen him was not done by human beings and so left him (thrown on the ground). (Bukhari 4/814 = 3348)

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