₦airaland Forum

I will burn in Hell forever. I will be punished forever. I am the worst creature on planet. Even if I die, no one must wish that God have mercy on me.

No, I did not kill any child. I did not rape anyone. I did not bomb, shoot, loot or cheat anybody. In fact I always followed the law. I never committed a crime of hate, passion or greed. I took care that no one is harmed by me. I paid my taxes. I did my job honestly. Sometimes in name of God, sometimes in name of my ancestors, I made charity to poor and orphans. When boko haram shot and kidnap about 133 children in chibok .. I mourned as if I lost my own family.

My deadly crime

But all this does not make me a nice person. My crime is far worse than anything else you can . That is why, God will still forgive a rapist or murderer but will never forgive me.

Do you know what my heinous crime is? It is IDOL WORSHIP.

My crime is that I see God in idols. My crime is that I go to shrines instead of mosque. My crime is that I pay obeyance to ogun, sango , osun and the nist supreme olodumare

No I am not joking. In eyes of a very dominant chunk of world population, my crime is the worst crime of humanity. They believe that I am the most disgusting creature on earth.

Hate in name of religion

I am called a Kafir which is an abuse that means ‘a disgusting person who commits most wicked crime’.

They say that their Holy Book tells that idols-worshipper is worst of creatures.

Now I don’t care what their Holy Book actually says. I don’t even know the language of their Holy Book. I assume that any religion teaches only peace and tolerance. And hence their religion must also be no exception.

But what worries me is that the entire community leadership is unanimous on this hatred. They may differ on how to deal with a wretched person like me on earth. But the moment I die, all agree that I must not be called “Marhoom” – one who gets mercy of God.

They will not participate in my festivals. They will not pray for me when I die. They will always consider me most disgusting.

Come what may happen, whatever be my good deeds, no one will say that I can also be blessed with Paradise by God. Even if I die saving life of an idol-hater, even if I selflessly dedicate my life to humanity, I will still burn in fire of Hell.

AgentOfAllah:
I wish that person a mended heart, and hope they don't have to take their disappointment out on you again.


But my dear friend, inherent in the word 'design', is a claim that a purposeful designer exists. So if you must examine the complexity of the design, you are also apt to examine the designer itself, its processes and motives. If you jettison your use of that word, I will not pursue a line of questioning that probes the designer anymore.


Ah! Good! I felt you meant to suggest that the human brain was designed the way it is. As for consciousness, I don't know its source, nor would I dare suggest our ancestors never had it. However, I am presently working on a hypothesis of mine: We tend to look at consciousness as an expression of the self, a unitary entity. I propose that the self does not exist in the way that we think of it. Instead, the self is the convoluted result of the individual selfish tendencies of our many bodily organs which then become interdependent to guarantee each of their survival. Our organs don't always agree with each other though, so this explains why "we sometimes are in conflict with ourselves". It's why sometimes you feel ice cream is the meaning of life, and why at other times, you feel like puking when you see it. The self, and by extension, consciousness, isn't a unitary entity, but a gallimaufry of organs that are mostly interdependent, but sometimes also in conflict. This hypothesis is still work in progress, but I am very excited about it because it is a problem which can be falsified neuroscientifically. It may end up being stupid, but I intend to pursue it as my personal academic project when I'm done with my present projects. I can't promise I will be able to answer all your questions, but I think your questions will help guide the way I try to address this topic, so please ask!


It has a non-zero probabilistic chance, I don't deny that!

When you look at a picture of yourself from 10 years ago, don't you feel shock at how much you've changed in that space of time? Do you not find it strange that all the while, as you gradually changed, you probably never noticed it? Evolutional changes are a generational thing. It takes many generations to observe widespread mutations in a population. Unfortunately, in most species, members don't last more than a few generations. So in as much as we would all like to experience how humans evolve, it is unfortunately impossible...unless we find a way to prolong our lives (and our reproductive systems) for thousands of years. Another way to observe that evolution never stops is to look at organisms with lifespans so significantly shorter than ours, that they can have thousands of generations within one of ours. This way, you will be able to see evolution happen live.


"Indirectly"? Oh! I had no idea you thought I believe science is limitless. Let me be direct then: Science does have limitations!

There are many: DNA, fossil, anatomical and physiological similarities.


Did you mean your answer is "no"? Saying "yes" to questions (1) and (2) means you reject the idea that you share common ancestors with your 5th cousin and that you reject DNA tests which suggest as much. But your response to the same questions suggest otherwise. I'll assume you meant "no".
So assuming there is no one to prove that you are related to your 5th cousin and DNA proves this, I assume you will accept it. Now, there is no one alive to tell us we have common ancestors with monkeys, but DNA proves this much, I don't see why you need biographical information about our common ancestors to accept that we are related.


You shouldn't be any more confused by the lack of complete information regarding our shared common ancestors with monkeys than you are confused by the lack of complete information regarding your shared common ancestors with your 5th cousin. I sincerely don't know why you are confused? It is one thing to not know, it is another thing to be confused.



Yes you do, if you are not antiscience! This has been my argument all along. We also share common ancestors with rats too, which is why they are so effective as human substitutes in medicinal experiments.

I don't have a problem with them reporting me....my only concern is that moderator also need to do their own investigation....


The premises we are tacking here is on the complexity.... Not on the designer.... If you are interest in such a debate... We may open another thread on it....I think we should be focused.... The question is why is human brain complex ? an undoubted statement you accept...l


Since you are currently working on the question I proposed...whatever you will be claiming may be falsified ..you even accept... As of now it is still an hypothesis.... And therefore it is not useful in this discussion...


It had none zero probability chance you claim? I will treat your claim as an assumption.... If not I will ask the questions again.... Why is our brain conscious and unconcious? Any tested resarch not your own project? You already accept science has limitations.... I am sure the original answer is the limitations of science..

I have a very clear understanding of evolution.... drug resistance is one and growth is another....my own stand here is evoluting from one species to another. Am aware of dog cross breading and likewise other animals....my point is From monkey like to human? Or from fish like to human?

Our Generation can't experience this type of evolution base on science trick formula....therefore it is non of my interest....


I like the truth statement of yours....science has limitations.... I also agree with you

Before evolution theory , there was nothing like any evidence suggesting we share common ancestor with apes...if there is one let me know....they have been so many evidence of DNA similarities between human and other mammals ....not only gorilla... There is a also evidence on fish .....


I already state no to the question....I clearly select no.... My question repeat itself again... If evolution can trace my proto primate to be monkey like , what is stopping them for tracing where my proto primate evolute from? You yourself already answer it. There is limitations....


I am confused for the lack of incomplete information in evolution theory... If the incomplete information is known. It will settle my doubt on the theory once and for all....as it is best, it is still a theory in crisis...


I am not anti science I repeat my self again...almost every animals and plant share a considerable amount of DNA similarities with human...Those that make every animal , plant and human of common ancestors? Your answer here will settle the argument...

royalamour:
This somewhat true.
Still trying to get answers to the question why it is bad.

it isn't bad....we are have brainwashed to accept it is bad.

najib632:
Bro pls watch the arrivals series you can get the complete one from torrent sites

so I can accept Hollywood science fictional movies as a replacement of the truth...

chemystery:
Laws are there to enforce some vital aspects of morality. Meaning you just have to show some form of good morals whether you like it or not. Morality exists as part of our natural human instinct which was borrowed by both civil and religious laws for its purposes

morality and law aren't the same pls

royalamour:
Just a thought.
Ever since I grew up to know what's right from what is wrong, the worship of deities have been portrayed to be bad and dangerous.

Even in home movies.

I have asked elders and even some MOGs why it is so bad, but all they could tell me was that it is bad and our God commands us never to worship them.

To me, that isn't enough.

So I'm asking again, why is it so bad?

we were originally brainwashed to accept everything from us that those not look like the abrahimist faith a wrong act...

Buddhism is a pagan religion
Himdusism is a pagan religion
Shintoism is a pagan religion

And all this religion are doing fine with those who subscribed to them....

Why is African case an issue?
Thankfully, we are exposé...... We have seen the truth.....as a Yoruba culture entails , we worship the higher supreme deity... Olodumare while paying obeyance to the natural energy like river , rock , meltal , flower and so on.....Yoruba faith( IFA adherents) may be the oldest monotheistic religion in the whole world ....it has lasted for more than 8 thousand years making it more older than Judaism Islam and Christianity.....


I have personally study bible and Quran....and I have seen a whole lot of IFA tradition in them....i womder where they get the information...since ifa Faith preceded abrahimic faith....it is likely they plagiarized African tradition.... I await a comprehensive academic on this assumptions though....

It is subjective.....

What type of abortion are you discussing about? There is a delibrate abortion, they are abortion that are terminated for the pupose of shame e.g father and daugher pregnancy.....rape victim, medical conditions and so many more...

I willl assume you are talking about deliberate termination....

Killing a human or yet to be a human (fetus) without reason for one or more valid reason is without doubt wrong. And in this case deliberate termination of pregnancy should be totally condemn..


I agree all humans have certain rights, among them being Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness......well, the pregnancy may be yours but your own personal decision isn't enough to justify the wrong act......just like cannabis is a wrong act....though you only affect yourself when you do it.....

Samsimple:
So hw will dis help nigeria

by ensuring every Nigerians work hard and see life and himself or herself in a never ending symbolic relationship with the universe.

chemystery:
Lawfully right, morally wrong!


Is this your recommendation?

I just correct you ...morality is subjective.........
No it is not my recommendation...am asking you if it should replace it...if laws should replace moral?

shaybebaby:
But on what basis have you made this declaration?

life threaten

chemystery:
and so? what about animals helping another in distress?

is it compulsory or mandated by law to do so

chemystery:
Is Switzerland or Saudi Arabia an individual? You can ask them what good and bad is in the light of common sense. But unfortunately, they have no business with good and bad; they only deal with things that are lawful and unlawful.

Now, you don't compare laws with individual morality. Even god's moral code itself is a law. That is why killing is generally bad but not when it involves government versus criminal nor when it involves god, his people versus their enemies!

As an atheist, my morality is rooted on empathy and my human instinct towards distinguishing benefit from harm. That is why I feel bad even when criminals are killed. This is the same reason I see Yahweh as a cruel bloodsucking nonentity

saudi Arabia and Switzerland are Nation and what make them a nations are the individual in them.... So the law is for the individual in the country....


You are right they deal with laws...laws do not carry the spirit of emphaty.... It is not unlawful for me to stop my car to carry a pregnant woman in labour at the road side if I see one...I can just by passs and go....no police will arrest me for not stopping.....


It is lawful for me if I am medical doctor to demand for my fee before attending to a terrible sick patient that come to my office before treatment....


Here nothing like good nor bad...am only following the laws .....

Therefore laws should replace good or bad concept....since it is only human device right?

shaybebaby:
Answer my questions, based on your answers, I'll say yes or no.

I said it is worst

shaybebaby:
Are they addicted/or likely to become addicted to chloroquine?
Or is their allergic reaction life-threatening?
Is this reaction the same for the entire population of those who are administered the drug?

Do the side effects outweigh any lifesaving benefits?

it is worst that what i can present here... It is no go area in our house.

That is my question... Should govt ban the drug on our behalf......

princesssusan:
hmmm so wetin pesin go do now

prepare for your coming back....take good care of your home and reserve a good legacy to come and enjoy when you come back

chemystery:
And their natural behaviour such as that of humans can be categorised into normal or abnormal, right or wrong, good or bad, etc.

Who taught animals in the wild how to help fellow animals in distress?

Who also taught them how to express emotions?

Just as in humans, the moral variances amongst a particular animal group will be different from another, but they are undeniably there.

culture, environment, political and social factor or contribute to how will develop our emotions....

shaybebaby:
Bear in mind drugs doesn't mean just marijuana. And it has nothing to do with morality.

It is more about cost to the society and to individuals as opposed to "you are bad if you do drugs".
When I say cost, I mean the cost to the society due to addiction to these substances, loss of life due to overdose, rehabilitation costs, increased criminality to feed the habit. Those are direct consequences to the people who use drugs and increased costs to the state as well as a drain to the society. Hardly a moral choice to restrict or outright bar it.
Its not banned because it is wrong, it is wrong because it harms people hence banned.

I don't belive in your logic... Almost everyone in my house is alleged to chloroquine...I even consider it more dangerous than weed .....should govt ban this med drug on our behalf? What about those who are benefiting from it ?

shaybebaby:
USA is a continent as well as a country. With 50 states, all with their own state laws, how many of them have legalised weed(in this example)? And how are states representative of the entire country.
The Netherlands is not even one of the G7. So what are we on about?

you ask for evidence I provide it...what are you arguing against now?

shaybebaby:
Hardly representative of the West.

when you are talking about west. USA is a power house .that can not be downsized... Netherlands is another strong force again

shaybebaby:
Then why haven't we legalised drugs?

some state in the USA has legalized cannabis why Netherlands has legalized it too...

shaybebaby:
It is neither moral nor immoral.

so what human aspect does it fall to....greediness I suggest

shaybebaby:
No, wherever prostitution is legalised, it is to prevent exploitation, trafficking and to give protection to sex workers.

Better to regulate them out in the open, where they can be protected that drive them underground where the previous points mentioned which are far more deleterious to them, can happen.

And yes, why shouldn't they pay taxes too from their trade? They drive on roads, they rely on the police for protection, they use hospitals etc. It is only fair they contribute their fair share.

your answer is both yes and no....that is a disagreement....

You just tick one of the cause of prostituttion legalization

And you also tick another important cause....to raised physical cash....


The western will not legalized what is not economical gainful....

shaybebaby:
When we migrated to Europe, we killed them because we were competing against them for resources. Ofcourse because we had evolved larger brains, we were more technologically advanced(tools etc) we gained the upper hand. Although not before some fvcking. Some people carry their genes today.

And for every time we have conflicts like that, the same human species enacts rules to try to prevent such instances repeating itself in the same manner. Eg, the European convention of human rights was formed in response to what?
Yup! You guessed it! The second world war. And this has resulted in 70 years of peace in western Europe.

Why do we bother? To ensure survival of our species.
In 2030 or thereabouts, we are planning the first manned voyage to the red planet to establish the first colony. Life there is already being simulated here in preparation for those who are making that one way journey.

Why? Because we are already overpopulated, because we may suffer a natural disaster that will wipe us out(maybe nuke ourselves) etc

Should earth ever become uninhabitable, we are already looking for a home outside. TO ENSURE THAT OUR SPECIE SURVIVES.

Again, what place has morality got in all of that?

no scientific evidence suggest human are the cause of Neanderthals extinction.... The cause is a natural phenomenon...and no scientific evidence suggest we are smarter than them....they .may be more intelligent than us due to their larger brain..


Europe may be peaceful than Asia and Africa....butbit is not peaceful... Take Russia and Ukraine as a case study....what about frequent terrorist attack in UK, ,Germany ,and France...


Human has been a selfish figure from day one We always want to get control over everything....


My question again is selfishness a moral act?

dalaman:
Of course if the society accepts bestiality you will see it as normal. Remember when slavery was accepted people were busy enslaving others.

This pictures are pictures of people living in the US some 100 years ago.

These were your normal Americans that were living at that time. They didn't see anything wrong killing and lyching black people, to most of them it was a thing of pride. Remember these were your average Americans living in the south at that time.

argument settled.

shaybebaby:
Just to clarify, for consent to be deemed legal, the parties must be judged as having the mental capacity(as defined by law) to be able to give one.

So you see, when mental capacity was defined legally, the definition kinds of rules out animals which is why bestiality cannot become legal(in the UK atleast). It also rules out minors, people with mental difficulties etc

To prove that homosexuality should get the same treatment, you will need to show medical evidence that it is a form of mental impairment and such consent is invalid even if both parties are legally adults.

your evidence is not substantiate...saudi Arabia law is base on sharia system totally difference from British law...a legitimate contract may exist between husband and wife so far it has family agreement and not necessary daughter agreement....

shaybebaby:
Exactly. And that has driven all the advancement we have as a specie.
From our transition to farmers from hunter gatherers which allowed us to form small settlement as we no longer needed migrate for food.
This in turn meant evolving social norms to manage our relations with each other in group settings otherwise we would have killed each other off. We evolved social norms to ensure our survival, so things are adopted as they evolve if they are in the interests of the group at large or not detrimental to our survival as species.
Where is morality in all of this?

this is not true,Neanderthal were better survival like human...where are they today?

Our past generation fought first and second world war for survival ....one develop interest to rule over his peers due to selfish interest...


If selfishness is not consider moral, why the war?

AgentOfAllah:
You probably shouldn't compare homosexuality with bestiality. Consent is not trivial.

I am treating them independently.... Bestially is one aspect of human interest (people do it) and likewise homosexual....my interest here is bestiality...

butterflyl1on:
Yes and if he refuses he would answer to the law man imposed on him as right.

it will be term denial of freedom? An under court of law , the court may likely impose penalty on him for holding the right and freedom of a fellow human

dalaman:
I don't need to believe in God to understand things of they are well explained.

Good and bad is based on the society and what it choses through its leadership.

we both agree...it is subjective.... And that birth another question... What do you consider good and bad?

dalaman:
Of course. They just did the in the United states. If you are in the US and happen to be a judge that weds people in the courts and gays come to you to wed them, you must do it because it is the law of the land and you can NOT be seen discriminating against them. You do it and you lose your Job or face severe sanctions.

buterflyl1on argument close....if today his daughter accept to marry a dog ....he will gladly accept so far the law of the land accept it as moral now....dalaman it is not an intended insult ....it just a way to make the moral act of bestiality look shameful

dalaman:
What is God consiiousness? Societies with God consiousness accepted and practiced slavery, genocide, segregation, pillage, incest, rape etc so what exactly are you saying?

you do not belive in God existence... So my definition on what is God consciousness to you will not be accepted.... But you have not deal with my question...what is good and bad in the light of common sense? Let's forget about God now....

Buterflyl1on ....one day our society we accept bestiality as a culture...... Human rights will protect them....and it shall become moral....

You can see the damage of a society without God consciousness