₦airaland Forum

Quote from: virgo on Today at 01:07:51 AM
I am mad at the people who sold the land (naive Africans and their ignorant leaders who never read between the lines).
You are mad at people for selling their own land to those they wanted to in this case?
Quote from: virgo on Today at 01:07:51 AM
I am mad at the hypocritical American universities/corporations/government (the ones who use their "superior" knowledge to manipulate unsuspecting Africans).
Please bow your head in shame for pretending that even to this point, you still tbelieve that Africans are not mature enough to make decisions of their own. Guns were not brought in to make these deals.

China currently owns majority of the land that has been sold/lease in the last decade or so, to foreign investors. Are you going to tell us as well that your people were OUT-witted by the Chinese?? Please, enough of the "THEY HOODWINKED US" nonsense. It is OVER-USED at this point.

Quote from: virgo on Today at 01:07:51 AM
And lastly I am totally mad at the people who are supporting this irresponsible behaviour. Yes kobojunkie, I am fricking pissed.

Get this, Africans are seen as vermin to be rid off the rich fertile soil of Africa, so coming across developments like this just plain irritate me.
I am an African and I have met no one who considers me, or africans vermins that need to be rid off.

3 years ago, at the height of the global food crisis, it became more than clear to the world that Africa, if left to it's own devices would starve itself out. Soon after that, agricultural investors started looking carefully at africa and it's agricultural potentials . . . potentials that not been reaped for so long now by, yes, the Africans. Why blame investors for deciding to purchase or lease land in Africa? What is wrong with that? Why villify them for that? Our Governments/People have said no so many times before now. Why not mention that?

If you are really irritated, then attack the right party here. The buyers are only able to buy what they are allowed to. If you do not like the price the land is being sold at , tell your government/companies to increase their prices. If you however feel you don't want anyone to own land in Africa, then I suggest you expect the consequences to follow. Grin


1st bolded - Sure, I am mad at them for being naive.

2nd bolded - Bow my head in shame? Lol. Child please, , Africans are being exploited left right and center. And since when do you need guns these days to manipulate people. Honey, it just takes a clear ink and a cunning mind.

3rd bolded - Africans have always been/and are vulnerable to the financial policies of the former colonial masters and current world powers. Yes, they are hoodwinked at every turn.

4th bolded - The shooting of black workers in Zambia by their Chinese "owners" on 19 Oct 2010/ the abandoning of 72 passengers fleeing Libya in late March this year by NATO forces claiming to be in Libya for "humanitarian reasons" and many other incidences clearly illustrates my point. Good for you that you have not encountered any kind of treatment that will make you feel like a vermin, but I have met and argued with an American who believes that wars in Africa are necessary for population control. There is nothing about the African that the average Westerner respects, and I don't need to be shot by the Chinese, abandoned at sea, or killed in a war created by greedy Western capitalists to know what whites think of blacks.

5th bolded - Who created the financial world crisis? Just like the West to create a problem and turn around to reap from it.

6th bolded - It is a well known fact that these corrupt corporations deal with corrupt leaders to cheat Africans. Africa has never been blessed with good leadership, so what government are you talking about?

Kobojunkie:
Who are you mad at ? The group that sold the land, knowing what it is to be used for? Or the group that made the offer to lease/purchase the land, and paid the price deemed acceptable by the original owner?

I am mad at the people who sold the land (naive Africans and their ignorant leaders who never read between the lines). I am mad at the hypocritical American universities/corporations/government (the ones who use their "superior" knowledge to manipulate unsuspecting Africans). And lastly I am totally mad at the people who are supporting this irresponsible behaviour. Yes kobojunkie, I am fricking pissed.

Get this, Africans are seen as vermin to be rid off the rich fertile soil of Africa, so coming across developments like this just plain irritate me.

violent:
LMAO!!!

do you know exactly how much was paid?
how much will be paid in subsequent years?
was it an outright sale or a lease?
what the size of the land is?
the conditions of the land?

For instance, if i buy a land in an area for 3 million, chances are i might have to spend an additional 15 million in ensuring that the land is fit for use. . .you should learn not to be too brash without knowing exactly what is involved in the deal

'
Dear "violent", before the news of this deal got here on NL, I read it extensively and I know what is involved. No amount of your "intelligent" calculations and economic evaluations can change whitewash these deals to give them a good look. The alarm was raised by a firm in the US that you people are being bought for the cheap, and you Africans in Nigeria are acting like you speak English better than the Queen of England.

I am not going to waste my time getting into an argument with you. Out of all the intellectual balderdash most of you are presenting in favour of this 21st century invasion, all I can see is a bunch of African sheeple seeing nothing wrong with the way your people who are already being screwed over by IMF and its sister agencies, are being given up to be further deprived of their own lands. No wonder, the whites always find willing accomplices during their misadventures in Africa. Like one of them said on the CNN website during the Halliburton scandal, "you play dirty in a dirty place." PATHETIC!

Eish, some people are talking investment. Lol. Investment indeed! You buy land the size of France for peanuts and some Africans scream investment. No wonder they bought able bodied Africans for mirrors during the slave trade. SHAME!!!

ola olabiy:
This is[b] LAND[/b] we're talking about, guys.

This is different from your[i] normal[/i] investment. You are done for by selling your land

Thank you. Most seemingly intelligent people on this forum just don't get it. You can talk all the economics of your Western education, it doesn't take a sharman or prophet to see that Europeans are creating the chaos in Africa to benefit from it. They are not just buying the land people, they are buying you ignorant jackasses!

Jenifa_:
are you being sarcastic or what?  
just like we seized our lands back after a whole century of colonization abi?
and how the ppl living in niger delta region have seized their land back from the western oil companies.

this your obsession with capitalism is getting out of hand pa.

I hope he is being sarcastic too,

Seun:
Most African countries will just seize the lands back at the slightest provocation, so there's no risk really.

Wow! Are you serious Seun? I hope you realize that the current trend of acquiring huge tracts of land at a pittance only reinforces the racist ideology that Africans are dim witted. Kind of makes me remember the partition of Africa and the handshakes between invading Europeans and naive African chiefs that transferred lands to the colonialists. No matter the argument for this travesty, Africans must resist being enslaved for the second time.

I can only scoff at the so called liberal thinking that Africans are shouting themselves hoarse over this matter. Seems to me like Africans like to live in denial. Europeans have managed to brainwashed the so called intelligentsia in Africa to the extent of cheating us in our own land. What is very irritating is that some of us argue blindly in their favour. Investing in a continent is one thing but buying or leasing lands for cheap so you can export food to your citizens is another. The sooner Africans sit up and question the motives behind these buy outs, the better for us.

Nigeria is fast becoming a terrorist enclave. Kudos to the corrupt, unintelligent, and unproductive gangsters we call leaders. Nice how they use their gangs to keep the people in a perpetual state of terror. Coooool. I hope the masses are enjoying their political slumber and religious zombie-sm. The puppeteers sure know how to pull strings.

igbos again, i am very sure u guys have been brain washed to beliving that nothing goodwould comeout of islam, any way, that is your views, no amont of lies and hatred u pple have on  islam would stop islam from taking over the world, talking about killing ,  chrisitians critizing other religion, WHT!!!, what wrong with these people, pple that dont even  know what they are worshiping "some one that  couldnt save him self" tell me how will such person saves others?men !  have never seen where pple are brain washed to beliving in false thing lyk these in my life, always talking about "the bible" we all knw that the bible also known as "bibilos" aint nothing but the collection of books written by pple like "king james", common "when will you people see the light", i am out,



Seriously I get bored with these religious pissing contests. As for your post f, kmedown, I hope you are aware that people ask questions about your religion as well. E.g, Prophet Muhammed's child bride, Coptic Christian slave women, beheading of Jews e.t.c, so better start defending your own faith. Eish, , some of you are just plain annoying with this "my Jesus better pass your Muhammed" or my "Muhammed better pass your Jesus". Every religion has its good and bad.


Humanity has been fighting the battle of religious supremacy since the beginning of time and thousands of years later, the human race is still spilling blood for "G-d". There is no justification in the killing of another human in the name of religion. Committing a crime is one thing, doing it in the name of your religion, another.

Your line "Islam will rule the world" further establishes your expansionist agenda, and only establishes the terrorist mindset of those hallucinating under the tenets of Islamic extremism. Until we learn to live with our differences. Learn to accept that no one holds a monopoly to "truth". Tolerate one and other despite our religious difference and speak out with STRONGLY against evil, the creative force we love to call G-d will always be far from us.

BTW, I wonder why NLanders always see any new topic as an excuse for religion bashing and historical fact twisting. It will do us a lot of good to always stick to the topic at hand without unnecessary digressing.

maclatunji:
No doubt, we will clash again some other time, until then, TTFN!

Lol. I hear you.

maclatunji:
You like Monsters then

Whatever,

maclatunji:
Yawns, I have no time to read all that LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING!!!

Anyway, to show you that there is nothing personal here take this gift from me and enjoy your reign as the Queen of whatever you think you are.

LOL. Typical, typical, typical. But then, its not like you digested anything of what had been said before, so you not reading my last post makes no difference. Like you said, no hard feelings. BTW, I am not a fan of teddy bears.

@Maclatunji, while you are still caught in the throes of Arabprehnia, can you please list at least one achievement of an African? Some of you black religious fanatics are just downright amusing. FYI, you are just an "abeed" to an Arab Muslim, just as a black Christian is simply a Nigger to a European Christian. Ask Kola Boof, she lived as an "Abeed lan Sharmuta" according to Osama's first wife.

I took you on because you derailed from the topic, and started reveling in something that has no connection to your ancestral roots or history. Unlike you, I do not follow religion slavishly. Spirituality is one thing, religion is another. Besides ALL RELIGIONS ARE JUST FREAKING COPY CATS.

I have pointed it out to you over and over that Islamic Scholars learned from other religions and civilizations too, but you continue to engage me in worthless drivel. There is NO RELIGION OR CULTURE THAT HAS EXISTED IN THE HISTORY OF THE HUMAN RACE THAT HAS NOT BORROWED, COPIED OR EVEN APED A PRE-EXISTING RELIGION OR CULTURE. JUDAISM, ISLAM, AND CHRISTIANITY ARE NO EXCEPTIONS. I might not be religious, but hey if you are why not give other religions their props as well because for all you know, they also contributed to your own religion. Blacks sometimes are like sheep that baa pitifully at their master's command. SMH

In all, you have taken enough pains to become more Arab than the Imam in Mecca. I am happy for you, but please next time, stick to the topic and leave out the "my G-d is better than your G-d" blabber. All humans are searching a way to G-d, and if we all believed that he/she was exclusively ours as well as his/her "paradise". Then, millions of other good, loving and kind people of different faiths, cultures and tribes are destined for hell. And that my brother, is not correct.

maclatunji:
Why should I be hurt be your achievements. Not everybody wants to be a lawyer and as for your publishing books or being an author, don't make me laugh too much. However, adding your academic or professional qualifications to this argument is like missing an open net like Yakubu (sorry man). [b]It only shows how shallow you are.
[/b]

Obviously, you do not understand the difference between the word "Arab" and "Arabs", the 's' there has no meaning to you because to you only one man can completely represent a single culture. You are getting to a point that is beyond help. Now after you have gotten the Arab[b]s[/b] message add Muslims to it, you will get Arab Muslims.

Now, After the Islamic conquest of Persia, Baghdad became the centre of scientific studies and trade, and many merchants and scientists from as far as China and India traveled to this city, as did Al-Khwārizmī. He worked in Baghdad as a scholar at the House of Wisdom established by Caliph al-Maʾmūn, where he studied the sciences and mathematics, which included the translation of Greek and Sanskrit scientific manuscripts (Ehen, that is what you have been saying abi? Why didn't anybody else "merely" translate it into their language and write the book? Sebi it is as simple as anything you can imagine)?

Now under whose government and influence did Al-Khwārizmī gain the knowledge to bring Algebra to the Muslim and Roman Catholic Church? It was the Arab Muslims, so get that into your head and let it settle there nicely. With all your bad-belle, [b]0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 are still called Arabic numerals (I urge you to go to court and have that changed too).
[/b]
You are impaired by intellectual myopia
So, if I diss a Mama
It isn't Africa

Showing-off is not my style, so keep your shallowness to your self.  Whilst we bring valid points you are busy singing your praises. The Vatican endorses Islamic banking and myopic Virgo is still arguing the point ([b]She needs help):
[/b]
Vatican offers Islamic finance system to Western Banks
The Vatican says Islamic finance system may help Western banks in crisis as alternative to capitalistm.

The Vatican offered Islamic finance principles to Western banks as a solution for worldwide economic crisis.

Daily Vatican newspaper, 'L'Osservatore Romano, reported that Islamic banking system may help to overcome global crisis, Turkish media reported.
The Vatican said banks should look at the ethical rules of Islamic finance to restore confidence amongst their clients at a time of global economic crisis.

"The ethical principles on which Islamic finance is based may bring banks closer to their clients and to the true spirit which should mark every financial service," the Vatican's official newspaper Osservatore Romano said in an article in its latest issue late yesterday.

Author Loretta Napoleoni and Abaxbank Spa fixed income strategist, Claudia Segre, say in the article that "Western banks could use tools such as the Islamic bonds, known as sukuk, as collateral". Sukuk may be used to fund the "'car industry or the next Olympic Games in London," they said.

They also said that profit share, gained from sukuk, may be an alternative to the interest. They underlined that sukuk system could help automotive sector and support investments in infrastructure area.

Islamic sukuk system is similar to bonos of capitalist system. But in sukuk, money is invested concrete projects and profit share is distributed to clients instead of interest earned.

Pope Benedict XVI in an Oct. 7 speech reflected on crashing financial markets saying that "money vanishes, it is nothing" and concluded that "the only solid reality is the word of God." The Vatican has been paying attention to the global financial meltdown and ran articles in its official newspaper that criticize the free-market model for having "grown too much and badly in the past two decades."

The Osservatore's editor, Giovanni Maria Vian, said that "the great religions have always had a common attention to the human dimension of the economy," Corriere della Sera reported today.

http://www.worldbulletin.net/index.php?aType=haberArchive&ArticleID=37814

1- Lol. Laugh all you want. People read my book, poems, and newspaper articles, but all you are is a NLander arguing relentlessly over nothing. Like I said, you digressed first. So, hello Yakubu Lol, I love your sense of humour.

2- Do you have a problem separating Islam from the term "Arab?", ehn Ibn Mactunji. Khwarizmi was Persian. Simple, straight and short. Arabs conquered already advanced civilizations most times through serious bloodshed and used their knowledge to develop their own civilization. You really need to slow your Arab self down,

3- Why the whole drama? My point is he translated works of other civilization into Arabic, no? Whether it is easy for anyone else to have translated it is beyond the point.

4- 1234567890 are called Hindu Arabic numerals not Arabic numerals (Please do some research yourself and let it settle into your own head nicely). Please note again the "Hindu" influence on Arabic mathematics. Translation- copy!

5- Your attempt at poetry is quite poor. 

6- Showing off? I am a lawyer, writer, poet, and novelist. So there, want more? Shallow? You are doing a good job giving a new meaning to the word. And who's "we"? Stop looking for foot soldiers. Argue with a woman like a man. Silly!

7- Oh dear, how many times will I tell you that "holy men" preach what they don't practice. Will the Vatican ever want to practice Islamic banking in its own small "kingdom?" (I think you already know the answer to that).

maclatunji:
Most of you folks have a problem of basic comprehension and some of you are just being hypocrites. Sanusi has told you that he is just implementing what Soludo and other top Christian officials had developed as policy for Islamic banking and here you are protesting out of jealousy, fear and hate. @virgo, you are the one seeking to prove you are intellectually superior. I have debated this topic without letting the world know of my profession and literary achievements in terms of publications. In fact, you are the only person who has talked of being a Lawyer and writing books, what has that got to do with the topic if not for showing off? You are just one big pretender who is trapped in her myopia. Laughing at LLV- Lady- Lawyer Virgo.

Oh my, did I hurt your feelings by stating my profession or literary achievement?

If you want, please show off too. You are the one who came boasting how an "Arab" taught Rome accounting. You didn't know then that you were digressing. Lol! You are such a comedian. And please tell me what pretending has to do with anything. You are so jaded to believe that everyone else with a contrary opinion is either close minded, unintelligent or jealous. SMH

Talking about "being trapped in myopia", . If you want to see a myopic, sentimental little boy filled with his own importance, look in the mirror.

maclatunji:
@virgo, you see, it does not take much to bring out the real you from under the cover of your I am so open minded and only want to establish the truth at all times story. I will not mind all your ranting. So, you studied Islam with this attitude, no wonder you learnt little.  You need to free your mind from your imperialist  mindset. I am just toying with you, but my points are valid nonetheless. Whether you like it or not Islamic banking is here to stay. Take Sanusi to court if it bothers you so much. You are the first author I have had contact with who does not want to share his or her literature. Are you so vexed? Take a chill pill.

You think I have an imperialist mindset??!!! Lol! If you are happy believing that, please don't let me stop you.

Rant? Lol. You were the one that started the "my religion is better than your religion" discussion instead of sticking to the topic at hand. You sound so comical every time you try to show off your intellectual prowess. You have shown a perchance for digressing more than anyone I have spoken to. I say something and yet you have problem with simple comprehension. You didn't have to drag me through all this if you UNDERSTOOD for a second where I was coming from. You took the religious highroad and started convulsing with unnecessary righteous indignation over a simple issue.

You have wasted precious energy trying to convince me that I am not have as "smart" as you, yet I shake my head every time I read from you. I even saw you tell someone that he doesn't belong to your level. Come on now son. To be educated is one thing, to be ignorant, another. You have moved from seemingly intelligent, to mediocre, hysterical, and to comical over this religion issue, and that's why I smile, cos like the mad man who thinks everyone else is mad for not hearing the jokes he hears, you believe you are on a pedestal that is unattainable and your position should not be challenged even though you made some very erroneous assertions. Initially you tried to dismiss me even going as far as saying "I just play with the keyboard". Lol. You are a master piece. I just want to advice you to stop being so over sensitive over religion because it is a waste of time. Most humans fight for G-d because of a mind set like yours. The topic said "Sanusi", you start miseducating people with history that is not connected to what people were talking about.

At the second highlighted. One, people who have the "like it or not" attitude stopped ruling sometime for sometime now. Or are you one of them? I don't have to take Sanusi to court, his decision is already being challenged by some learned friends of mine. One group of people cannot keep fostering their wishes on the rest of the country.Second, you are the one who needs the chill pill. As I was joking about giving you books after the world "ends". After all, you asked for free copies. Peace!

maclatunji:
What makes you think I am angry, if you are angry, I know for sure that I am not. About the Persian, you have little understanding of what you speak of. So, if I say the Roman Catholic Church tried Galileo for his beliefs that means that each and every member of the church at that time was from Rome according to your logic. [b]Al-Khwarizmi was ethnically Persian but for the sake of his scholarship, beliefs and exposition I can and will classify him under the banner of Arab Muslims anytime I see fit. Pope Benedict XVI is the Head of the Vatican, does his being German-born remove anything from him and the Catholic Church, obviously no[/b]. So just drop that point (I cannot begin to explain every little detail to you, haba!).

Who said any religion or race has monopoly of knowledge. We are only telling you not to hate but appreciate Islam. The only people becoming paranoid here are you folks that are screaming just because the CBN wants to implement Islamic Banking and it has not lied to you about it by inserting the Sharia-Compliance clause in its regulations.

About you reading the Qur'an I am sure you have but you cannot get a true understanding until you allow those that practice and have knowledge of the religion teach you. Thereafter, you can compare what you have privately studied and what you have been taught. If you want to learn French, go to the French irrespective of the fact that it is spoken elsewhere.

If I say Christian leaders are not-so-knowledgeable about Islam, I am correct and I am not apologetic about that. I told you, we did Christian Religious Knowledge in School. In fact, I was top of my class in that subject in primary school (of course my christian teachers were delighted). So go and relax and stop being slightly rude, let us debate not fight. Virgo, have you ever been top of any Islamic knowledge class? (I seriously doubt ).

Now breathe-in and out and let go of all of that negative energy.
What you fail to understand is that, even that rule is part of the Sharia law, you cannot invade people's privacy to obtain evidence. You folks are trying but I am afraid you are not exposed enough to argue effectively on the subject matter.

@Virgo, no doubt you are intelligent and knowledgeable but your anger beclouds your thoughts many times. Study more about Islamic banking and other concepts before castigating them. We have said it before, you can go to conventional banks- they will still remain the major part of our financial system. Leave the Sharia compliance for those of us that are willing and able to conform with it. You bolded my poem as part of my [b]"Bigotry", abi? (You could at least have commended the creativity ).[/b]

Islam is pure, Muslims may not always be (that is because we are human). Some of us just try to be the next-best-thing to pure.

maclatunji link=topic=673270.msg8395547#msg8395547 da


1- Most religious fanatics tend to be very angry people. But like you said you are not angry, so niiice

2- Your arrogance is almost interesting,   

3- I guess in that vein, it is safe to classify you as an Arab Muslim . Secondly, you didn't hear me classifying the pope as a Roman or an Italian just  because he has Roman catholic beliefs. Your point?

4- Eish, , stop whipping sentiments over nothing. So everyone that questions the actions of a Muslim automatically hates Islam or suffers from Islamophobia? And people airing their opposing views now mean they are paranoid? Why are you people so sensitive to criticism?

5-  . Wow! I'm impressed! So I guess your primary school knowledge of Christianity qualifies you to be sooo knowledgeable about the religion. Lol. At least I read the Koran as an adult and not under the supervision of a primary school teacher.

6- Lol! Ok shrink. Your hypnosis works like magic, NOT!

7-   Anger? I'm the one who couldn't care less about religion here. Seriously?, 

8- Oh oh, I told you to read and understand your poem yourself. Had no idea it was addressing bigotry. Talk of a classic case of back to sender. LOL

9- Like I said, anything that rocks your boat sweetie. All religions make the same claim and yet have to spill blood to please God. But so long as it makes you happy and fulfilled, who are we to judge?


[quote author=maclatunji:
@Virgo, somebody said being a lawyer is not a big deal, in some places you do not even need to have a credit in Maths to become one.

YAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYY! I now have a Lawyer I can run to for Pro bono services whenever I need one, or you will not help me out because of my "stupidity+bigotry"? 

Can I get free copies of your books and links to your articles? We might not agree on this subject, but we can agree on other issues or is that not true?

LOL. So maths is what you use to qualify a profession? Interesting,

Pro bono ke? When did Nigeria get so developed that Lawyers offer pro bono services. Even the ones sponsored by the govt will bodily waive pro bono the moment it is mentioned. As for calling yourself silly and bigoted. Please go easy on yourself. No need to use such unflattering words on yourself.

You want free copies of my book, ko? Don't worry, wait. I'll send it to you on December 24th 2012. If those damn Mayans manage to be right, don't blame me. Well, I doubt the Guardian website can retrieve my articles for you. I post on my FB page as soon as they come out. Also, you are not very rational in your arguments. Doubt I want to do this often.

maclatunji:
@bolded, when it comes to Muslims, whatever we achieve is not so great, but if it is the West and maybe Christians for some people, it is the next best thing after the discovery of the wheel. @2nd bolded, you think that you disagree with bogus claims and half-truths [b]all the time but in truth, you do not always do so particularly when it means putting your religion and beliefs you grew-up with in bad light (I know, you disagree with me).
[/b]
One thing you have to understand is that the average Muslim born and bred in Lagos or other parts of the south of Nigeria has in all likelihood been fed with the same dogma that you Christians were fed with from childhood, thanks to our teachers in Primary and secondary school who saw in us an opportunity to evangelize and spread the gospel. We in essence know what you know. However, you know next to nothing about Islamic doctrines, history and culture other than the propaganda that you have been fed with from the west and your not-so-knowledgeable teachers and pastors. Have you ever considered this:

Why do Catholic Popes keep-on looking for ways to engage with Islamic Scholars and leaders? Let me guess, you think it is because they are Holy men of God spreading the sweet love of Jesus to "heathens"? That is a big fallacy, they do so because they know the truth of Islam as the true religion having interacted with Muslims for over 1300 years. However, they are not ready to loose their power and prestige over people like you. They will renounce Islam in public whilst studying and learning from it in private. I know, you disagree but I tell you:

[i]The key is inside you to open your mind
The truth is out there, your heart can't be blind
Open your eyes and open your mind
Open your thoughts
Don't stay behind
[/i]
***Many thanks to Nescafe for providing the inspiration***

Wow! I cannot even begin to say how horrified I am by your complete and shameless bigotry laced with acute ignorance. *Sigh*

First of all, I don't have respect for people who find it difficult to listen or in this case read the words of another party carefully before jumping the gun. Not only have you become sentimental, you seem incapable of getting your message across without falling into some religious hissy fit. And all for nothing!

Now if you ever, I mean ever, sat back and read my posts, I merely corrected your wrong Assertions about Arabs teaching Rome accounting. While you made the intelligent error of presenting a Persian scholar as an Arab without stating for a fact that he was inspired by Hindu mathematics, I reached out to correct you to avoid your mis-educating innocent folks. My dear friend, I did not come here to get into some pointless argument about religion. I am tired of simple minded people.

Also, let me address the highlighted words in your post,

Highlighted 1- Wrong! No religion, or race has a monopoly of knowledge. No need to start bawling like a baby! Eishh,

Highlighted 2- You make it difficult for me to understand your argument.

Highlighted 3- Why do some Muslims always take this route of "you don't understand Islam"? I have read the English version of the Koran and the Hadiths. Or you don't think English is good enough to convey G-d's message? However difficult it might be for you, try to refrain from making wrong assumptions. Fact remains that in this day and age, you can get any information if you want. And secondly, it is funny how you got so defensive to the point of using words like "not so knowledgeable teachers and pastors. How typical!

Highlighted 4- LOL! You are so naive.  Never trust "holy men" sweetheart. For all you know they could be laughing at us simple folks following religion while they sodomize little boys, sleep with European love-peddlers, watch pornographic flicks and clink their bubbly glasses of champagne whenever they have their secret meetings.

Highlighted 5-  . LOL! Whatever rocks your boat sweetheart.

Highlighted 6- Seems the only person hypnotized by religious tricks here is you. Leave me out of your slumber party,

Highlighted 7- Try repeating those lines like a mantra every morning. You stand a better chance of gaining from them.



In a nutshell, NO RELIGION IS PURE! What started as a search for G-d has led to serious brainwashing and division of the human race. I am spiritual sir, I am just not religious. I might be a Christian but I am not blind to religious abracadabra or politics. Next time, you might want to be a lot less sentimental about this religion issue. Truth hurts, but until we face it and realize that we have a common enemy, we (black Africans) will continue to fight a war that does not concern us.

maclatunji:
Dude, you are naive. So you mean as soon as Virgo says something, it is infallible. You cannot even identify sarcasm when you see it. Virgo isn't exposing her ideas at all, she is just playing with the keyboard when she types. Your teachers may feed you with dogma, but you have do your own research. Stop parroting my words. You know it is a fact, I learnt Christianity from Christians, you have never learnt Islam from Muslims and therein lies your problem. We are not operating on the same level and/or frequency.

How childish and uncouth! Who said everything I say is infallible? You have a right to disagree, no need to resort to insults. However allow me to point that I am not only a lawyer, I have written not one, two or three articles in a major newspaper in this country. I have a published book and have edited two published books. So if in your opinion, you are the best brain on planet earth. Hey, it is your opinion, you are entitled to it, no matter how deluded it might be. Peace!

maclatunji:
I knew your question was a bait to build a platform to assert your opinions. Okay, the man who explained Algebra to our part of the world was Persian but you cannot deny that he was Muslim and learnt a lot from Arab as well as other scholars, even his name and title of his book shows that. Google and read about the Arabic traders and their Caravans. How did they keep records, Were they literate and numerate? What is the dark ages in the history of Medieval Europe? What was the state of Islam when Europe was in the dark ages. I have material you can refer to. It might not convince you, but at least you will acknowledge that I am not making wild assertions. I consider you an intellectual peer, I would really like us to have this and other debates one-on-one. Is there a platform you are comfortable with that we can connect on. The material I have I do not want to release here just like the American's do not want to release the Photos of Osama bin Ladin's death. It would not change the mind of Skeptics but would be misconstrued by those who have motives for doing so. I do not have the time at the moment, later!

I had no intention of baiting you in order to assert my opinion. Just my two cents on what I know to be history. I have already gone through this "dark ages" discussion with someone else here on NL, and frankly I am done with it. Yet, as for one of your questions about the illiteracy/literacy of Arab traders. Allow me to state that before Islam, Arabia was not as developed as it was when Islam entered into the picture and conquests of other lands began. Empires like Persia and Egypt with already developed civilizations helped the Arabs a whole lot upon their conquests of those lands.Merely transferring the knowledge of ancient civilization into Arabic texts does not give them claim to that knowledge. I have always disagreed with bogus claims and half truths, but then again, you are entitled to your opinion and what you hold to be the truth. My stand has always been that no religion or race has ever fully developed without copying or borrowing from another one.

Anyway, thank you for wanting to share your material with me. I am more than grateful for your offer, but I am sure it is near impossible to get on another platform to continue this conversation. Sometimes I get numb from repeating myself over and over again.

maclatunji:
Somebody will be happy to read your post (if he can find it, the guy has been screaming your name all over the place ) To your point, read this http://studimonetari.org/articoli/arabietemplari.html .

Thank you so much for your link. Obviously, you cannot be held guilty for an ideology propounded by a group, so I understand your position completely. However, I am of the humble opinion that the Arab/Jewish/or European propaganda to spread falsehoods just to promote their ideologies should not be swallowed hook, line and sinker. I have come across arguments like your own and frankly I think Africans, irrespective of their religious affiliations should never allow themselves to be brainwashed into accepting with complete resignation that either of the two main religions on the continent which was foisted on them through slavery, is without its intrigues, lies and drama. Still, allow me to point out that you got History completely wrong and my disagreeing with you has nothing to do with my religious affiliation as I am one of those people who prides herself on being free of religious jingoism.

Now to your point. I beg to disagree wholeheartedly that ARABS had anything to do with the accounting system practiced by the old Roman empire. First of all, the scholar Muhammed ibn Musa Khwarizmi of whom your link refers to isn't even of Arab origin. He was a Persian, from the area known as Iran today. Secondly, Khwarizmi was influenced by the accounting practices of the Hindus which he seems to have merely regurgitated. His book "Kitāb al-Jamʿ wa-l-tafrīq bi-ḥisāb al-Hind", literally translated to mean "Book of addition and subtraction according to the Hindu calculation " is based on the use of Indian numerals. Since the Arab with their unending quest for land expansion, invaded enlightened empires, they formed a habit of copying works of the lands they invade and translating them into Arabic. Still not to digress, please note that Khwarizmi was not Arab, and he cannot even be said to have been wholly responsible for developing the number "0". He, like most Arabic scholars simply took the knowledge already in existence in the so called "pagan" lands like Babylon, Sumeria, India, Egypt and so many others, and literally "ran" with it.

Then to your claim that Arab influence is responsible for Rome's accounting. Please let us not be found guilty of twisting history. You see, accounting practices in the old Roman empire was developed during the reign of emperor Augustus. Please allow me share a part of this history below,

[b]The Roman historians Suetonius and Cassius Dio record that in 23 BC, Augustus prepared a rationarium (account) which listed public revenues, the amounts of cash in the aerarium (treasury), in the provincial fisci (tax officials), and in the hands of the publicani (public contractors); and that it included the names of the freedmen and slaves from whom a detailed account could be obtained. The closeness of this information to the executive authority of the emperor is attested by Tacitus' statement that it was written out by Augustus himself.

Records of cash, commodities, and transactions were kept scrupulously by military personnel of the Roman army. An account of small cash sums received over a few days at the fort of Vindolanda circa 110 CE shows that the fort could compute revenues in cash on a daily basis, perhaps from sales of surplus supplies or goods manufactured in the camp, items dispensed to slaves such as cervesa (beer) and clavi caligares (nails for boots), as well as commodities bought by individual soldiers. The basic needs of the fort were met by a mixture of direct production, purchase and requisition; in one letter, a request for money to buy 5,000 modii (measures) of braces (a cereal used in brewing) shows that the fort bought provisions for a considerable number of people.

The Heroninos Archive is the name given to a huge collection of papyrus documents, mostly letters, but also including a fair number of accounts, which come from Roman Egypt in 3rd century CE. The bulk of the documents relate to the running of a large, private estate[14] is named after Heroninos because he was phrontistes (Koine Greek: manager) of the estate which had a complex and standarised system of accounting which was followed by all its local farm managers. Each administrator on each sub-division of the estate drew up his own little accounts, for the day-to-day running of the estate, payment of the workforce, production of crops, the sale of produce, the use of animals, and general expenditure on the staff. This information was then summarized as pieces of papyrus scroll into one big yearly account for each particular sub—division of the estate. Entries were arranged by sector, with cash expenses and gains extrapolated from all the different sectors. Accounts of this kind gave the owner the opportunity to take better economic decisions because the information was purposefully selected and arranged.[/b]

, Now, the above shows accounting practices were in place without the influence of Khwarizmi's "influence". While I do not doubt that the Arabs by translating the works of the empires they invaded into Arabic, were able to help Arab empires grow. I do not subscribe to the Arab propaganda that either their race or their religion brought advancement to the human race.

As for the issue of the Knights Templar, I have read, researched over and over and I know for a fact that controversy abounds in Judaism, Christianity, Islam and every other religion that has been in place before those three religions. Your link like several other links offers a twisted version of history. I do not have the patience to go through the discourse of whether Europe, the M.E or Africa is responsible for the development of mankind, but by virtue of my educational training and study of religion and civilizations, I know for a fact that every subsequent religion or civilization merely borrows from the same Pre-existing ones they sought to destroy or wipe out. It will be ignorant to even assume that ancient civilizations like Greece, Rome, Troy, Mesopotamia and several others were influenced by Islamic practices of mathematics or accounting when Islam only came 2500 years after Judaism and 700 years after Christianity. Did Islam have its own share of ground breaking discoveries? Probably. Was it responsible for teaching Rome accounting, NO.

As for the topic of Sanusi's plan. Knowing that we belong to a multi-religious, multi-ethnic society, I think that the issue be revised by the CBN chief as it is not feasible and will only make it clear that the North is hell bent of Islamizing Nigeria. With the current anti North Islamophobia that is fast eating into the psychological make up of the Nigerian society, this is the last thing Sanusi should be caught doing. It shows gross disrespect for other religions in the country. We are still grappling with the issue of a secular Nigeria belonging to the OIC. Nigeria will only move ahead when we put religion second to our national development and unity. So, that is my take on the matter.

maclatunji:
They were secure in the knowledge that he is a Christian. Muslim, Alfa-looking Sanusi just triggers alarm bells in some of my fellow Nigerians. Even The Vatican which is the greatest Christian establishment in the world take-it or leave-it will not argue against it because they learnt accounting practices from the Arab Muslims.

The part of your statement highlighted boldly is very interesting. Please could you enlighten me about this part of history I might have missed. Thanks!

Apparently Osama preferred earthly bosoms to the heavenly ones his foot soldiers had to die for. What hypocrisy!!!

maclatunji:
The conscience is an open wound, only truth can heal it- Sheikh Usman Dan Fodio

The President knows what to do, he should have the courage to do it after fully understanding the statement above.

In the same vein, the elites of the North also need to examine their conscience as well, and also have the courage to stand for the truth. The burden not only rests on Jonathan shoulders. They all should be able to tell the Nigerian people what truth they are hiding behind without the need to continue using innocent humans as pawns for their silly games because the voices of the people are rising up to demand a change from the status quo. One more mistake and the leaders won't be able to rein in their followers. Each section will promote its own ideologies, the resultant end is an unavoidable split. That is all I have to say on the matter. Thank you!

maclatunji:
Hold on a second, are you GEJ fan club members suggesting that Northern Nigeria is not a part of Nigeria and that President Jonathan is only the President of Southern Nigeria? BTW he suggested it once on his Facebook page and I gave him a thorough word-lashing.

Just admit a failure of the relevant authority and we can begin to make progress. If you continue on this heedless path you will only make the situation worse. The President of a country (especially one as big as Nigeria) does not throw words about (he should leave that to people like me). He takes decisive action always and expects to be held accountable for such actions. Quit being weenie supporters of a weenie-looking government already!  Even if the government wants to be weak it is up to we the people to be strong and push them to work. Instead of all of this pathetic excuses you guys are giving!

It is actually more complicated than that. I have always berated Jonathan's government for its slow response to serious situations that needed quick action, but these past few weeks has exposed the tricks of the Northern elite. I doubt very much that I care to see more Southerners slaughtered in the name of keeping the country together. I used to have so much hope for Nigeria. Many who know me or have read one of my articles "A country on life support" published in the Guardian Newspaper in December 2009 where I more or less foamed at the mouth at the CIA prediction of Nigeria's break up in 2015, know that I have always been for one Nigeria. I even concluded that article by stating proudly that we were on course as a nation. However, with the selfishness of the Northern elites and their promise to make the country ungovernable for Jonathan should he get elected as president, I regret my former stand, and I advocate for the break up of Nigeria if possible.