₦airaland Forum

I was prepared to see your perspective but am certain there were no doctrinal corrections in Corinthians. But since ow we know in part, I was looking forward to your wisdom on this. Unfortunately, you are not prepared to substantiate your claims of doctrinal errors of Corinthians save brushing that aside. Interesting times we are living in.

We have epistles where doctrinal errors are tackled, so clear they are impossible to miss even with casual study of the scriptures. Redeem yourself by sharing with us a list of doctrinal errors Paul tackled at Corinthians or just withdraw in humility

sammied:
I taught initially that you were someone who could look from another person perspective aside your own rigid one... Just like I have throughout this thread.

I accepted that some of the allegations about CE are true and some not true. And that even those which are true are not enough reason to label a whole body of believers a Cult.
You have refused to see that. No need for me to make further explanation. You wouldn't see it. So... Go study corinthians for yourself... If you can't. Good. I will outline nothing no matter what you say. I retract my my word on that.

Cheers!

Those were not doctrinal correction but sin, no?

sammied:
So the examples of Rick Joyner and Reinhard Bonke I gave is not enough for you? You didn't read it?

Now I remember that I was warned about you people always avoiding the truths earlier even when it there for you to see.

Oyakhilome is not my Pastor, I don't go to CE. I AM A LOVER OF EVERYONE IN THE BODY OF CHRIST.

One thing is certain you don't have that right, neither Winsomex.

Pastor Joagbaje,
You are good people

Waiting...tic toc

sammied:
I do not know better. You have a bible go study it. We all have one. Don't you? But if you cannot. I will outline them after work today.

Don't be too smart, setting criticism standards too high for anyone to keep your MoG 'above reproach'.

In the fewest words tell me who has a right to point out to a falsehood in the body of Christ

sammied:
No... It will not make his allegations false or true. But then it will let us know that you have the right and authority to tear down. Because we will know what you have built or building. That's the scriptural examples.

Cheers!

You know better, share with us a single false doctrine from Corinthians

sammied:
The corinthians church subscribe to false doctrines. Go and read extensively on it. Was that enough reason for Paul to label the whole body a Cult?

It seems you people don't even know what you're saying self.


https://www.biblegateway.com/blog/2012/08/letters-to-the-church-1-corinthians/

Interesting.
BTW, among the Pentecostals, what is the difference between a Bishop, Reverend, GO,senior Pastor! And Pastor?
Who bestows these titles? What are the qualifications?

PastorKun:
Nobody in cec ke? Even pastor chris himself cannot answer that kweshun.

You bro , you need them plus contact lenses. You are responding to what was not aksd and ignoring what was raised

You can try the rant thing again if it makes you sleep, and then attempt an intelligent response again

Gombs:
Oh I have... I have once told you on this thread, that you need glasses.

Note this is not sinning or falling into sin, but subscription to false doctrines

sammied:
Of course your logic is right: but then if you're skilled in the act of tearing down like Winsomex. You must also be equally if not more skilled in the art of building. That's the examples gleaned from God's Word!

When you ask the right questions... Then you'll be ready to receive the right answer.

All most people do is not rebuke it's criticism, very negative criticism, character assault etc. Example is what Winsomex does.

Go and read Paul letters and find out how biblical rebuke is done with love, especially 1st corinthians.

Back to your question anyway.. Let me ask: what's the biblical precedent for rebuking someone?
It's clearly shown in the scriptures(check my previous post for references)

Ricky Joyner could rebuke Todd Bentley when he fell... Why? Because he's a man of impeccable character and we can all see what he's built over the years.

Reinhard Bonke was involved in restoring Benny hinns marriage. In fact he rebuked and I told Benny he must get back to his wife. Today their marriage is fully restored and moving forward. I have plenty more examples. And of course, the works Bonke have done for the Lord, are we waiting till eternity to know at least some of it? These are men of strong character and Godly results.

Certainly, all these e-warriors are not the one to rebuke Pastor Oyakhilome. I have given u examples of men who can.

Stop tearing down if you have nothing you have built. That's what I have studied throughout my own bible and the examples of Godly men. I don't know about you?

God bless!

Great rant,
Now refute Winsomex with sense minus emotions

Gombs:
Forget it...you've done nothing. If you've, you'd have known better. Like Jo said, you cannot just wake up and call a body if Christians cultist, or brood of vipers just because you do not subscribe to what they teach.


You can't even gather 10 people for a bible study class. You cannot even demonstrate the power of the spirit... You've ne'er healed anyone, nor casted out a demon.

Have you? Yes... I am bragging.

If you've financed the gospel,no wahala... But show me your faith by your works. James 2:18

Will it make Winsomex allegations false if I told you what I have done?

Gombs:
What have you built? What have you done with the message of Jesus?

Forgive me, but the above bold is the dumbest thing I've read in a long while, with the exception of WX's numerous writings. For example, his writing on WoF piano, building etc.

Sammied, Winsomex,Gombs,
The fact that tearing down is easier than building don't make building better.
You can apply the same set of arguments to any religion say Islam. Do you know how many lives have been lost, how many man hours have been burnt in crafting Islam and here you are calling it false? Now replace Islam with Mormons.

Every religious system does not materialize from thin air, it arises from convictions and immense resources applied in propagating those convictions all over. Neither the convictions,adherents nor resources make it right.

A question nobody has ever answered me here is, who has what it takes to rebuke Oyaks?

That's a good question I can assure you NOBODY in CEC knows, else we would have been choked with images of his graduation . I would not mind studying his dissertation

WinsomeX:
CC: Gombs, Joagbaje, kenny4life, sammied, vooks

You too bro, you too

Gombs:
Have ye the truth? if 'Yes', what have you done with it?

Jesus will ask you this someday.

Am agnostic about your numbers.
What I mean is, numbers don't equal Truth; you could be the largest in EVERYTHING, including the mundane such as watching the least TV,having the longest urinals and the most toilets in your washrooms as CEC, but that don't mean you have the Truth.

Gombs:
It's ok to disbelieve. Folks didn't believe Jesus even after he rose folks from the dead.

If only numbers=truth

Gombs:
Well, that bloke wrote what he did in 2012, ROR was just about 70 languages, could you write him and say as of today, ROR is 565 languages and will be almost 650 by December.

Could you write also that the churches in UK, US and Canada has increased by almost 300% since he wrote that piece? Tell him in fact, my friend is the head pastor CE Belgium (Yes, The whole Belgium). For your information, he is less than 30, and started the CE church in Belgium in 2013. You're almost 50 o...think about it. Keep writing and criticising, continue, while others take over nations for Christ. You're yet to win NL with your message self.

Also write to him that Romania has more pastors under the tutelage of Pastor Chris, and that CE Romania is flourishing.

Tell him this year alone, 10,000 ROR was distributed in Iraq, winning 3,000 to the Lord. Worthy of note was it was done with the partnership of 4 other churches; the apostolic, the Baptist, the Evangelical and the Nazareth Churches.

Tell him, like you, Pastor Chris don't care what you write or will write or are writing... He's set on a course he wants to finish.

Tell him, like you, his fellowship will suffer same fate as yours, solely because God will resist who ever speaks against His servants.

Tell him Chris and Hinn he wrote about are waxing strong and great, doing the Lord's biddings.

Tell him, I know he's almost bankrupt. All church critics end up broke... He's broke now, and like you'd say "there's nothing wrong in being poor, after all Jesus was poor and sick at a time" "it's God's will" etc.

Have a great day.

Respond methodically to points raised by Winsomex.

Thank you

sammied:
What more can I say? I guess nothing more.

Thank you

sammied,
Nobody is labeling everyone. What may have escaped you is that a particular sect's doctrines and practice are controlled by one man or centrally by a very small group. If the doctrines are cultic; unbiblical, overly controlling, that is not to mean that every member of the congregation is cultic.

I don't know how else one can approach false doctrines and manipulation

sammied:
I guess you ignored my answers to your initial question...

Well... With above questions that you ask... We all know the answer. But that's not my case here.

My response to Winsomex and to you is that: because there's a believing serial killer among a body of believers... Does that make every one of them serial killers?

Because a believer impregnated 8 girls among a body of believers is that enough reason to label everyone of them fornicators or adulterers?

I am not a CE member. It's the same issues Winsomex and the John McArthur groups have with other groups. Because of cases of wrongs, some incorrect beliefs, they go ahead to name and label those groups with unpleasant terms.

A man even impregnated his step mother in the corinthians church, did Paul label them based on that?

Please go through my previous response and you will know that I said, wrongs, abuses, unbiblical doctrine should be rebuked and call out among believers. But then those single acts are not enough reasons to label that body of believers Cults. If you do that, then the Corinth church should be called a cult. Don't you think so?


About sticking to the subject, 90% of what I have said is about the subject.... If otherwise, please kindly point out.

Lastly, what I said about Winsomex are my personal opinion about him. I have never met him, but from gleaning from his writings ...thats all it is without apologies. He's free to have his personal opinion about me too.. the same with you. That's why God made us different from each other. That doesn't make those opinions absolutely right.

Remain blessed.

False doctrines are not new, we were warned of this by Paul right in Acts before he penned any epistle.
You may opt to ignore them and pray about them or to just speak out about them. What's the whole idea of being charged to prove all things, test spirits?

One of the reasons there is so much rot in Christianity is because believers have abdicated their duty to contend for their faith. Truth is sacrificed at the altar of 'unity'. If fellow believers can't point out falsehoods, who should? Angels or monkeys?

Now, nobody disputes that believers remain believers despite subscribing false doctrines, what Winsomex is saying is holding on to these is dangerous and may have eternal consequences. Let's stretch your logic; a believer, a pastor who sleeps around with the entire choir and other pastors' wives is still a believer, right? A believer, pedophile is still a believer, right? A believer, a closet homosexual is still a believer, right? And a believing serial killer is no psychopath, just that he trips every so often right?

you are stalling this by engaging in semantics.

Next is Winsomex' attitude and approach. While it is good to observe him, regaling us with your psychological analysis of his NL persona helps little in this thread. Stick to the subject and refute him where you can

sammied:
Believers who subscribe to "falsehood" whatever your falsehood means are still Believers. I do not know whether all the things Winsomex is saying about CE is true as I am not familiar with that body of Believers.

My point remains....there's nothing happening in any true Christian body today that didn't happen in the corinthian church.
Fornication, adultery, fighting, abuse and even worshipping man.. (remember the case of Appollos)? Hope u understand what I mean by 'worshipping man'?
Yet with all this, what was Paul attitude? Criticism or rebuke? Did condemned them and label them false Believers and a cult?

I careless about all the things Winsomex normally write about. I have been following him for a while. Am yet to read anything edifying, comforting, corrective or even rebuke from him. Most times it is all about criticizing different body of Believers. To HIM, HE HAS THE BEST DOCTRINE, BEST KNOWLEDGE, BEST PRACTICES, BEST BIBLE UNDERSTANDING, His INSIGHT IS BLAMELESS.... etc... that's all.

That a body of Believers are doing something wrong does not make them a cult. Rebuke them for the wrong. BUT ALSO LOOK OUT FOR WHAT THEY ARE DOING RIGHT AND PRAISE THEM ACCORDINGLY.

Where did he get his idea of a cult to pass judgement? The Bible? Or from a Man's book?

To answer your question : you can edify Believers who subscribe to falsehood by doing exactly what Paul did with the corinthian church. Rebuke, correct, pray for their restoration and also look out for what they are doing right and encourage it.

Remember how Our Lord Jesus dealt with the seven Churches in Revelation? Even those he went as far as saying that he would spit them out of his mouth.... Yet he didn't still label them. That's how to edify believers who are walking in error. I guess that's enough example.

Be careful of labelling God's people.

Remain blessed.

When Winsomex says MAN, he means a PERSONALITY called Oyakhilome.
It is rather obvious that the gospel from Genesis to Revelation is all about restoring MAN bck to God. Man in this sense means HUMANITY.

So please drop equivocation

sammied:
Habaa... What confirmation? If truly confirmation, then it's a positive one.

A lot of times, those who claim to know much actually knows nothing...

Let me ask you:
Who should be/is the central focus of the gospel according to the scripture? My brother, throughout the Bible it's MAN... now before you scream let me ask you some questions.

In the creation of the earth in Genesis.. Who was the central focus of the earth? Man or God?

Who did devil tempted and ultimately made to sin.... man or God?

In the old church who was the central focus.... Israel or God?

Who needed redemption from sin, who was going to hell without redemption? Who needed the gospel? Man or God?

Who did Jesus died n suffered for?
See I can ask more of this questions.... But let me stop.

It's outright lie of the devil.. N totally unbiblical to say Man is not the focus of the gospel.

If you disagree..... Please kindly provide five scriptures that says God is the focus of the gospel and I will kindly provide you with 10, 15 n even more from Genesis to revelation that says Man is the focus n reason for the gospel.

If man is not the focus of the gospel then there's no gospel in the first place. Gospel for God, Angels?

Now before you go hard on me.... Am not playing down the love, sacrifice and provisions of My father.... GOD almighty... his supremacy cannot be debated... He made the gospel to save man possible, without him no salvation or gospel for man. In fact he's the one who made man the focus of the gospel, for its man who needed the gospel n not him.

In conclusion, God made the gospel possible to save man... Only him deserve all the Glory.....

How do you edify believers who subscribe to falsehoods?
You should be worried about the veracity of Winsomex claims not preoccupying yourself with psychoanalysis

sammied:
So you now take the definition of a man's book to judge your brothers in Christ? What happened to getting answers from the Bible itself? If you so much believe in a man's book to the extent of using it to pass judgement on a body of believers... Are you not the number one cult member?

With all your submissions on the John McArthur conference.. Since then I have been praying for you. All I hear in your thread are just pure hatred for Christians who don't believe the same things as you. May God help you, because instead of edifying God's people, you bring far more confusions. Even Peter didn't understand a lot of Pauls writings.. Yet he didn't for a bitter critics club on him.

Are you truly a Christian? Are you truly a part of the body of Christ? If yes..... Then focus in edification of the body not pointing fingers..... Cos wen you point one finger... More points back at you.

If you were in the corinthians church in the Bible days... You will definitely call them a cult.... But Paul didn't... He only rebuked them on wot they were doing wrong but yet he praised what they were doing right. A lot of things were wrong with that church but yet Paul called them Holy brethren.

There's so much to say to you, but for lack of time I stop here. Remain blessed!

You judge doctrine and their purveyors by scriptures.
For instance, somebody claiming that Jesus had 14 disciples. You can easily disprove that from the scriptures and demonstrate the falsehood.

Once again, false doctrines are never cast in hell, their proponents are.

mbaemeka once flaps gum here that Jesus can't take him home UNLESS he consents. This means his immortality is in his hands;he can always refuse to consent and live forever. That is a falsehood. If non-consenting Christians live forever, shouldn't we have had many believers hundreds of years old who have refused to consent?

Joagbaje:
so the question is why would you call another person false , why not you ? What make you feel that your belief is to be accepted above the other. Let's humble ourselves . The word of God is not to be preached in strife and insult . So that if you're proven wrong ,there's atmosphere of acceptance and not political arrogance

2 Timothy 2:24-25
And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;




That's still your own personal wrong judgment of me. Deal with facts and not persons .



The question to you still is : by what standard do you label another false teacher. Because his belief is different from yours? Or you don't like him? We ought to judge by the word. And not carnal political and emotional standard.

The day you people will be ready for pure christian talk without personal attack , we shall begin talk .because the bible says to ignore certain people .

Romans 16:17
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

What is a mermaid?

Hello Pastor,
Doctrines don't grow in the forest, and nor are they propagated by dolphins; they are taught by men, and the purveyors of false doctrines are false teachers. Hell is not reserved for false doctrines but for false teachers.

So if Oyaks propagates falsehoods, we are supposed to JUDGE it. It would be very unthinking judging doctrines minus their purveyors. Recently, some four terrorists stormed a university and butchered 147 kids. According to Joagbaje, judge the doctrine, those were very innocent boys, in fact calling them terrorists is insulting. They are not even murderers, but murder of the 147 they did
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/04/04/africa/kenya-garissa-university-witnesses/


Let's look at how scriptures treat false teachers\prophet

Matthew 7:15 (KJV)
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves

2 Cor 11:13 (KJV)
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ

2Peter 2:1 (KJV)
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction

The point is , you can't be wary of false doctrines while completely indifferent/ignorant of their teachers

PS: Has it ever occurred to you how this 'judge not' is applied selectively to pastors and not the laity/congregation?

Joagbaje:
I don't need to prove anything to you . Jesus didn't have to prove anything . You can judge a doctrine but not a people or another man . Scripture says judge not.

Cc Winsomex, Trustman,SirJohn,Gombs

Reverend Chris is a huge brand and negroes will do anything to ride on his coat tails

Hello negro, you look like a Levite, are you?

MrPresident:
hhm

Joagbaje broadcasted a fake miracle claim because it is incomprehensible to him why somebody would stand at the altar and lie about a healing

My broda, this is WOF where Oyaks teaches you to deny reality to change it. Jeff saying he was not healed or even undertaking a test would have been deemed as lack of faith which is necessary to procure the healing he so desperately sought. Kenyagirl28 went through that. In fact her denial is right here on NL.

If I recall SirJohn, Jeff confessed to catching the virus due to failure to offer firstfruits.

Hello negro

AlfaSelltzer:
Well, the thread is ruined. Derailed because some big babies here had to cry because Joagbaje is here, and probably giving them a hard time. Look at WinsomeX's last post, like he wasn't the fellow urging others not to derail, but had to take an 'exception' because it's jo. You couldn’t resist, no? Double standards?

Vooks, you should get a medal for derailment.

Can you, WinsomeX prove Satan is the custodian of CE? I can take you on that.

Winsomex, Joagbaje,
A human unknown tongue would sound gibberish so there is no need to strain scriptures distinguishing between 'known tongues of men' and 'unknown tongues of Angels'. Note tongues of angels was used HYPOTHETICALLY just as offering your body to be burnt. Not that I doubt existence of these.

Besides, the reason there exists a gift of interpretation is obvious; seldom will the tongue be understood by both the one exercising the gift or others near him

You dared him to disprove your healing claims which he did and then you pleaded ignorance. Please pay up and then come back and defend CEC

Joagbaje:
I don't owe sir john .

Joagbaje,
Much as you owe SirJohn 500K, I have to agree with you; praying for somebody to receive baptism of the Holy Spirit is not cultish and if it is, then the apostles/disciples were cultish.

Much as I have serious reservations against CEC, I don't think cheap gossip helps its critics

Joagbaje:
That's bible very scriptural ....read reference below.

Acts 19:2
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.



TRASH !!!! . No one teaches such things in ce . Speaking in tongues can't be taught . What we can say is rather to teach you on how to RECIEVE the holyspirit . Not how to speak in tongues. Christ embassy is a sound bible teaching ministry . And satan won't stop ,manipulating propangada . To gullible ears

. . .He wanted to place his hand on my head,I refused and walked out.

Even though an ignorant dude is hailing you here but You missed out on what would have helped you because laying on of hands is one of the ways you RECIEVE the holyghost .

Acts 19:6
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.



You're wrong , speaking in tongue (message) is different from praying in tongues . Message in tongues is for people , praying in tongues is to God, and God doesn't need an interpreter !