₦airaland Forum

Wow,
It's a sign of loyalty or what?
Let me deal with a few here.
I am a member of Christ Embassy based in Abuja and until a few years ago was like Gombs, and would defend any negative issue about the church and pastor even if it is the truth.

WinsomeX:
A CHRIST EMBASSY MEMBER CONFIRMS THE IDOLATROUS DIMENSION OF THE CHURCH

Here are two simple fact you are scampering from;

1. TONGUES are languages of men and angels sometimes well understood by native speakers naturally or by non-native speakers supernaturally through the gift of interpretation

2. In absence of natural/supernatural interpretation of tongues of ALL forms in public worship, the speakers should refrain from exercising this gift

The rest of your diatribe is unworthy of my reply

sportsmaster:
Did you read 1cor13 to the end?
It is plainly revealed here that you dont read in context..the context of 1cor13 explains hw charity(love),faith,Hope..
Its a new week bro.Gonna be so so busy..
I'm just happy that this thread has Opened the eyes of many.
Summary
1)Every believer can speak with tongues.Mark16:15-19
2)Every believer can demonstrate the divers manifestation of the spirit.be it
1)tongues
2)interpretation of tongues
3)Prophecy
4)word of knowledge
5)word of wisdom
6)discerning of spirits
7)faith
gifts of healing
9)working of miracles.

Better open your eyes and dont be ignorant of your RIGHT and PRIVILEGES in CHRIST

Are they mutually exclusive, interceding and exposing works of darkness?

PS: Not that CEC is engaged in dark arts

Gombs:
https://www.nairaland.com/393253/rhapsody-realities-daily-devotional/37#32906369

WinsomeX, this ia truck Los of sound wisdom, you should do well and start interceding not creating threads making matters worse than better. You should consider building too not tearing down. I'm done here.

May God's Spirit guide you. Amen.

Are you saying that had he not feared it would not have befallen him?

ABDULADINO:
Yes according to Job's testimony. For the calamity from God was a terror to me, and by reason of his majesty I was powerless.Job 31:23

Too much verbiage. Answer this question from this verse;
Job 3:25 King James Version (KJV)
25 For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.

Did Job's fear earn him his calamities?

ABDULADINO:
[s]Yawn..Going in circles with you is really burdensome and boring... We decipher and understand OT in the light of the new.. The devil chief ministry is to kill, steal and destroy and his weapons are fear , intimidation,confusion etc etc... In all OT the devil was never exposed until Jesus showed up.

Let’s get this clear from the start. Tragedy, troubles and terror are direct attacks of Satan, whose total focus is to steal, kill, and destroy any way he can (John 10:10). Getting us to question these things and question the love of God like you and an atheist are insinuating is just part of Satan’s plan to discourage, defeat and torment. When troubles and tragedies happen, it is not a judgment of God permitted in order to correct or teach us something. A new testament believer has the Holy Spirit so he has a more better knowledge, a better convenant and better understanding of who God is and how He operates. Comprende? [/s]

sportsmaster:
...
When Jesus said they speak with NEW tongues..the word "NEW" is the same word used in 2cor5:17 "if any be in christ,he is a 'NEW' creature"...
If u check it in the Greek.,the word "NEW" refers to something that has not existed before....
It does not mean a newly made material(e.g a new phone,Phones already do exist.).the word "NEW" used in those verses means something that HAS NOT EXISTED BEFORE...

your shallowness is horrendous.

Let look at the the definition of NEW (kainos) 'NEW TO THE POSSESSOR' is the meaning. Comprende?
Get a new car don't necessarily mean it's brand new, just new to you.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+16%3A17&version=MOUNCE
The tongues were NEW to the disciples but not to the devout Jews. That why they could EACH understand what was being said

Acts 2:8-12 (ESV)
8 And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? 9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, 11 both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians—we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God.” 12 And all were amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “What does this mean?”

They heard the disciples speaking in their (devout Jews) languages. Why were they perplexed? Because the speakers were Galileans speaking diverse HUMAN languages simultaneously, languages these men understood. It's no different to say an Igbo man hearing a whiteman praising Jesus in very fluent Igbo say in India

Learn to reason wisely; supposing the disciples were speaking in languages of angels which nobody understood, and thT these languages were interpreted into the devout Jews'dialects. Wouldn't the interpreter(s) still be speaking in the diasporas Jews dialects? The interpreter(s) would be speaking in tongues of men. If the interpreter interpreted the angelic tongues into a COMMON dialect, then the diasporas Jews would not have been mesmerized and the words highlighted in red would not have been there!

Now, suppose Holy Spirit somewhat enabled the devout Jews to understand the languages of angels. Would those statements in red make any sense? Further, how would devout but unregenerate Jews receive the gift of interpretation of tongues which is reserved for believers?

When Paul referred to 1cor13:1-like u said before tongues are languages right?.
lets substitute languages for tongues.
It would then be like "Though i speak the language of Men and the language of Angels"..
Paul acknowledges the fact he speaks the regular Human language (with respect to the language he is referring to)..

Why would Paul writing to grownups need to remind them that he has the power of speech? Do you see how nonsensical it is?
' though I speak with languages of men yet I have no love, it is in vain'. What's so unique about speaking seeing everyone including heathens speak?
Paul picked the hypothetically higher and esteemed religious expressions (speaking in tongues, prophecy,Wisdom,faith,charity/philanthropyand even sacrificing his own life) and said all that without love is in vain. So he couldn't possibly pick a simple,obvious and almost universal act of speech and insert it here for the irony he was driving at would be lost

The context of 1cor13: was to explain charity(love),supernatural Hope and faith.
Always read in CONTEXT.and pay attention to DETAILS and every single words.
ALWAYS try to reason along with the scriptures.,compare scriptures.and think deeply.Thats how u study God's word.

The context is simple; ' if I speak in tongues of men or tongues of angels without love it is in vain'. Speaking in tongues here must have been unique, and referring to the SAME spiritual gift of tongues not common speech. Get some sense young man.

Selah

Cc Joagbaje,Winsomex,Gombs

Wrong,
Not just address, any UNINTELLIGIBLE is nor admitted

sportsmaster:
everything i explained is simple.
In Public worship,
U dont address the congregation with tongues alone,there has to be an Interpretation..
If there is no intepretation,notice the word Apostle paul used
1cor14:28-if there be no interpreter,LET HIM KEEP SILENCE IN THE CHURCH,AND LET HIM SPEAK TO HIMSELF AND TO GOD...
Notice the phrase paul used.
Paul said "let him keep silence and speak to himself".
That sounds like a contradiction,how can u keep silent and yet speak to urself?
What Paul actually meant in that context is that.
If there be no interpreter,reduce ur voice and speak to urself and To God..
As easy as PI

The NEW languages Jesus spoke of were perfectly understood by the devout Jews who were not Spirit filled. You need comprehension classes to understand this? NEW means NEVER LEARNED. If suddenly you spoke in Farsi, that would be a NEW language for you

Explain to me what this verse is talking about
1 Corinthians 13:1 King James Version (KJV)

13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels,

Does it not mean that tongues can either be of men or angels?
If you can speak in a human language supernaturally, what would prevent those naturally taught that language from understanding?

Cc Winsomex,Gombs

sportsmaster:
Are u dumb enough not to know that we are looking at BIBLICAL CONTEXT HERE?.
And i showed u mark 16:15-18.but u failed to see it

Winsomex,
Am resisting laughing because I so desperately wish this is another Christian bashing joke and not the truth

#SearchYourNeighbor

WinsomeX:
I can almost swear this incidence happened in a Christ Embassy Church.



www.nairaland.com/2265539/terrible-experience-church-today

CC: Gombs, kenny4life, Joagbaje, vooks, sammied

Facts
1. Job feared calamity
2. Calamities befell Job

Your conclusion from #1 and #2
3. Job's fear brought calamities

Vooks insists,
#3 is a faulty conclusion since we see calamities came from the heavenlies as Satan attempted to prove that Job's faithfulness to God was predicated on his blessings

Comprende?

ABDULADINO:
Ok, no need to resort to insult. I am not confused. I am fully persuaded that Job fears was the troubles that befell him which was clearly SPELT OUT in Job 3:26....Cheers.

You are confused.
I said that 'the thing that I feared most' is not what caused Job's calamities. This verse is misquoted by WOFers to prove that fear can cause calamities just as Job's. This is a falsehood

ABDULADINO:
You made a false assertion that Job fear was never mentioned and i said it was but in this case a reverence for God.( Job 1:9).


You err not knowing the scripture. Job feared trouble or calamity( Job3:25-26).

A chief reason why he had to sacrifice continually to God after his sons had a feast thinking they had sinned( Job 1:5).

Truth be told Job alluded his riches to his own righteousness rather than God's grace and favour.

If this is not 'engaging' please overlook it. Some threads I never open let alone comment. You are way too idle negro playing blogging cop

davien:
Having an engaging topic is one thing, creating one so you could look for somebody you can easily pm is another...

This is basically an unwarranted topic...

Some questions such as your gender don't need a dissertation

You should have refuted my wisdom with scriptures not accuse us of unbelief
Tying yourself in theological knots proves that your beliefs have zero scriptural support; the lamer your excuses for publicly engaging in UNINTELLIGIBLE, the more of a liar you are proved to be

Selah



Cc Winsomex

[quote author=sportsmaster post=32890860][/quote]

Was it necessary for you to butt in to aks silly questions?

davien:
Was it necessary to create a topic?...

Anybody seen the Negro lately?

ABDULADINO:
Fear was mentioned but in this case it was a reverence for God.

Ever heard of 'fears' of God? Paul is listing his struggles and he sneaks in 'fears of God'?

Go back and read the book of Job. You are delving into irrelevance here. I am not WOF/pentecoastal. And even at that scriptures record 365 FEAR NOT for a reason, both in OT and NT not just to fill the pages of the book. God is the author of Faith. Where doubts, fears and confusion sets in satan holds sway. You may be afraid sometimes but the bible never encourages anyone to stay in fear. These things are written for our learning.

Point is Job's fears had nothing to do with what befell him contrary to your assertion by throwing that verse around

How is he seeking attention?
Most of GMB death wishes are from Christendom, especially Pentecostals and that's why he is concerned; he is exercising stupidity from his fellow believers who imagine that God cN ONLY accomplish his purposes using apostles for leaders

chibwike:
Nice one...buh he should focus more on preaching the Gospel to his members..praying for them and..teaching them about christ...than seeking for attention...

I don't know your definition of 'dramatic' but the Eiffel Tower prophecy failure plus the fabricated edited forgery 'fulfilment' is all I kneed to know Owuor is a fake.

There was no cloud of glory. In this era of smart gadgets, the social media would be teeming with thousands of images and clips of the incidence

muafrika:
I've got a problem with some of the doctrine, but his meetings are so dramatic as much as I would prefer to stay away, I find myself curiously watching out for those strange miracles.

There are people who get near death patients out of hospital when those crusades come. Some even die waiting for a miracle. I would not dispute the miracles. I would dispute the source though. Because such things are part of the signs of the last days. Here's another angle of that cloud of glory incident.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RV3MsWVCBcY&itct=CCAQpDAYASITCLvarpH-_8QCFcgyHAodZoQAGDIGcmVsbWZ1SOnswszRoK2FpQE%3D&client=mv-google&gl=KE&hl=en-GB

Job's woes were unrelated to his fears, in fact in heaven, his fears were never mentioned by either God or Satan. You are magnifying the impact of his fears. Paul had fears too

2 Corinthians 7:5 King James Version (KJV)
5 For, when we were come into Macedonia, our flesh had no rest, but we were troubled on every side; without were fightings, within were fears.

This particular verse has been immortalized in the Just As I Am hymn btw. The point is you (Pentecostals/WOF) have magnified fear into something it is not. Believers fear fearing more than they trust in Jesus

ABDULADINO:
Lol, i am not. I am just telling you what the scriptures says.For the thing that I fear comes upon me, and what I dread befalls me. ...Job 3:25 KJV - Job said it with his own mouth not his friends nor me.

You cannot please God without faith. Faith is the absence of fear.

Waste of time bro,
They can't answer straight questions. I asked him whether Paul objecting to 'speaking' in tongues in public worship would endorse 'praying' in tongues and I got no answers.

Tongues are only expressed through the mouth, through speaking. Whatever comes out of your mouth be it a song, a message, a prophecy or prayer, all are SPEAKING. This is why the distinction between various types of tongues is irrelevant.; all are unintelligible without interpretation or comprehension by the rest.

Paul's message is simple; any unintelligible has no place in public worship.

And his reasons are quite sensible and clear; if the rest can't understand what you saying, it don't benefit nobody but you.

His prescription is even simpler; zip it or pray for interpretation

He equates interpreted tongues to the highest gift; prophecy

WinsomeX:
I request a one on one dialogue with you on this subject, here on this thread. Permit I ask you some questions while you are free to ask me too. Do we have a deal?

Paul would have no UNINTELLIGIBLE in public worship. So simple my broda

sportsmaster:
whats your point exactly?
That people shd nt speak in tongues while in public worship?
The last time i attended a convetion here in Lagos..
we were divided into groups,each group has between 10-15 members,we formed like a circle,there was a pastor with us,each person will come to the centre,speak in tongues and give the interpretation.all this happened within the church program..seek for churches in which the members are taught the word and the demonstration of the spirit and power of God.

Sure, he still has his brains intact and is still capable of using them.

Answer the OP's question now

Oyinprince:
^^ Is the Op really a CE member?

If he is, then he must have just joined r
ecently.

Many posts later and just insults from CEC members over such a simple question. Just dithering in defending their goD. You know you can tell how an ISIL terrorist reasons by watching these guys

Am so surprised that despite your spiritual feats you support the UNINTELLIGIBLE when Paul is clearly against it.

The scripture is not your standard in public worship

SELAH

sportsmaster:
The bible is the standard.
And i strongly believe that since anyone filled with the HOLY GHOST can fuction in divers gift of the spirit...
Its Not like i want to boast abt anything but its God's grace.
I speak with tongues,i interprete and i also prophesy..
I have demonstrated the word of knowledge gift only once.
Then i have healed the sick on more than 1 occasion..
And i am still stepping up and getting better,i still strongly desire divers demonstrations of the things of spirit..
The manifestation of the spirit is given to every believer.so all of us(believers) can flow in all the 9 Gifts of the spirit.
SELAH

My broda,
Why go to all these extremes to prop the UNINTELLIGIBLE in public worship when it is so clear?

WinsomeX:
G Lake has little credibility in Crtistendom. Close scrutiny has shown that stories recorded on this man were myths he help sell in his lifetime. You may want to locate more credible sources or stay within the pages of your bible - which is the most credible source ever.

Pentecostals are guilty of engaging in the UNINTELLIGIBLE during their public worship,the very thing Paul taught against in 1 Cor. Instead of these submitting to God's will, they are busy wresting scriptures.

Would Paul condone UNINTELLIGIBLE public prayers while censuring UNINTELLIGIBLE message/prophecy/word/speaking?

Paul's point is simple; if we can't understand it,and nobody else in the congregation can, ZIP IT. Paul alluded to ABUSE of these noble gifts. Anything can be abused. Am all for proper exercise of these just like Paul

soye3:
vooks on point dear. its as simple as that and that's all I've been saying. its good to know people agree with what the scriptures CLEARLY states. come to think of it @ sportsmaster, you want to tell me about bible chronology because you feel you have books? don't venture dear, there are people who read with open hearts and dig to find out the gold in the bible and thereafter accept the truth wholeheartedly. try it dear, it will help

Simple question;
1 Corinthians 13:1 King James Version (KJV)
13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels,

Is Paul talking about the gift of tongues in this verse? If NO, what is he talking about?

sportsmaster:
.
I have noticed the things that you dont agree with..
1)You dont accept the fact that a christian can function in divers gifts of the spirit bt in the book of Acts Each of the Apostles demonstrated almost all the Gifts of the spirit if not all..
2)u dont agree with 1cor14:2..u believe that u can understand tongues..
Same thing applies to vooks..the plain truth is that
1)Tongues can only be understood only if there is an interpretation.
2)Every christian has the potential to demonstrate/flow all the gifts of the spirit...
lemme explain something very fundamental..the spirit of God is in us right?,then the gifts of the spirit(i.e the manifestation of the spirit) are in the spirit..so if the spirit is in us.then the manifestations of the spirit are also in Us..Very simple and fundamental.
Many churches dont teach this simple truth...Most christians dont know WHO they are,WHAT they have and WHAT they can do IN CHRIST..

My broda,
You are ignoring something staring at you and splitting hairs. Whatever Jesus called NEW was understood by men.

Pentecost when the tongues came, other men understood them. How did non-Spirit filled devout Jews understand what the disciples were saying? The disciples were praising in multiple discernible dialects well known to them

Imagine 120 people speaking in several languages at a go. Now imagine one or a few of them INTERPRETING whatever is being said in different dialects. A Galilean hears a praise in a brand new language and then interprets that into Greek or Scythian...do you see how nonsensical conclusions you are forced to arrive at by ignoring the truth.

What about a Scythian Jew hearing a Galilean praising God in Scythian? That's the PLAIN,NATURAL reading of Pentecost


Speaking in tongue means speaking in a language you have never learnt. I could care less what category you place this gift; it remains that. Interpreting tongues means interpreting a language you have never learned

sportsmaster:
i can now see the basis of ur arguement@VOOKS.......
There are some cases i read abt E.g JOHN G. LAKE when he went to preach in south africa..as at that time,the south africans he met did not understand english,but when he spoke to them,he spoke english to them but it was recorded that the south africans heard thier own native language when he spoke to them..
he spoke english to them,but they heard that own native language..
As much as attracting that feat is,it is not tongues and interpretation,it is classified under miracles,signs and wonders..
So when u hear someone speak in a language that u dont understand on a normal basis and u suddenly find urself understanding him,what happened is a miracle(signs and wonders) not tongues and interpretation..because it is written in 1cor14:2,Men dont understand Tongues, only God does.
Also in
Mark 16:16-17-Jesus said "they shall speak with NEW tongues"
notice the word "NEW" there..in the original greek manuscripts the word "new" there means "something that has not existed before"..
PAY ATTENTION TO DETAILS.
SELAH

You are not supposed to convince nobody, face the facts,
He has fabricated 'fulfilment' of his prophecies as evidenced form the videos I have shared. You can go to bed and wait for God to reveal to you things, as for me, I have applied common sense and basic sleuthing to call him out. I have exercised discernment and I pray you do the same

frmglorytoglory:
It is not in my place to convince you that he is a true prophet of God. The Holy spirit will minister to you as you go through his teachings. Check the website repent and prepare the way.org
God bless you

Corinthians is simply stating a truism; you can't understand a language that you have never learned.

At Pentecost, the Devout Jews who understood the tongues were not spirit filled, they were not Christians in the first place. It follows that their understanding of the tongues was not due to the gift of interpretation (from the Spirit since they were yet to be Spirit baptized) but due to the fact that the Pentecost Tongues were human languages they understood. Comprende?

Tongues are languages of both man and angels. Read;
1 Corinthians 13:1 (KJV)
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels,

Does it then not follow that you could be speaking a language you have never learned but the guy next to you know it naturally?

sportsmaster:
.....
I am not disputing the fact that they heard each man speak in their dialect..what i am saying is according to 1cor14:2-it is impossible to understand tongues..
For them to have understood what they were saying in Acts 2..surely there must be an interpretation..
read 1cor14 and understand it.without interpretation,tongues cannot be understood.,
If u still dont understand,there is nothing i can do to help.Maybe you need to ask ur pastor..

I don't understand because they are speaking in a language I don't know. But I know incidences both from scriptures and off where people understand tongues because COINCIDENTALLY,they can speak the verydialect of the Tongues

sportsmaster:
@vooks..ever since you have been going to church,when people speak with tongues ,do you ever get to understand?.it is only when there is an interpretation that you get to understand.
1cor14:2-simply answers all that you have been saying..
"HE that speaks in tongues,speaks NOT UNTO MEN,but unto GOD,FOR NO MAN UNDERSTANDS HIM,hoebeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries"
SELAH

Interesting thread