₦airaland Forum

How do you do
I am a sinner
Born into sin and shaped in iniquity
Now I believe not who I was but still not what I shall be
You found me and gave me your name and
Things I desired have changed but
Inside you'll see it's still broken pieces
Deep in me reaches for you

How do you do
I am a beggar
Desperate for more
I hunger for your truth
See I am shattered
Though I may fall still you make all things new
You speak, the storm, it obeys and ..
Gone is the way of mistakes and
Though I still feel you continue to heal, look close and see, whoa

Chorus
[/b]
I am so far from perfect
I thought life is worthless
Until you showed me who I am
Not here by mistake
No luck only grace
I'm on my way to
Who I am
I am (repeats 3x)
Thank God I am
I am, I am
[b]

How do you do?
I am a winner
I lost a few and life struck me to my knees
And now I am standing
Not by my power, but your life inside of me
Even through seasons and changes
No tear has ever been wasted
This under system it worked for my good look now and see
I am not the old me but still

Chorus

Bridge
I'm here and I'm closer(closer)
My praise now is stronger(stronger)
Stood up to fear(fear)
By faith I'm still here(I'm still here)
Try to walk away(away)
God said not today(not today)
Cause eyes haven't seen
What God has for me
The hurt and the lies
Through the pain, through the night
I cried and I cried
Yet still I survived

My brother Femi

However hard- I praise you because I know this too shall pass...

Haha... Tell me who has the final say
Jehovah has the final say....

Me like

Happy birthday!!!

Goshen360: My dear sister,

You're helping to make my point very clear. Now, going by the word breakdown as you said. It is religion and church thing that made up this whole definition that FORNICATION means pre-marital sex. Okay, let's agree to the word seduce. How do I seduce someone when she agrees and you still call that seduction? This is NOT ra.pe where I put knife in her neck o. It's both agreement although one person must make the move first and the other consent. That's not lead astray!

On a second thought, let's say it's lead astray - Then what is the punishment? DEATH? Off course NO! Even the dowry people pay in this case is NOWHERE unless with the condition - If the father refuses to give her daughter to the man. How then do you tell me to go pay dowry when in the first place I'm not suppose to do that. Not even when I make love with the woman BUT unless when the father refuses.

All said, when I say I want to marry a woman - it already means COMMITMENT, LOVE, VOWS AND ETERNAL DECISION TILL DEATH DO US APART. You people still think it is at the marriage alter where pastor bless a marriage that these 'eternal decision till death do us apart' is being made. NO! It's ALREADY made between the two adults BEFORE going to ANYONE ELSE. AGAIN, IN THE EYES OF GOD, THEY'RE IN MARRIAGE UNION. THE REST IS FORMALITY AND CEREMONY. There's no where it is forbidden for them not to make love to themselves - That's not fornication.

To be sincere Sir, I careless about your take on this because something tells me deep down that you know the truth and you wouldn't do otherwise. I worry more about the people you are misinforming. I am not going to continue on this thug of war with you because it amounts to nothing. But I also wouldn't sit and have you misinform people that premarital sex is not sin.

Firstly go take a look at the Hebrew meaning of the word entice- to make a fool out of someone even when the person agrees doesnt seem like the right thing to do. Secondly I repeat intention to marry is not the same as marriage. Even the world and law knows that hence the requirements of witnesses and signing of papers. At this junction it's really not about the ceremony it's more about the covenant .

Any guy who decides to sleep with a girl because he intends to marry her aka enticed her aka made a fool of her has just played her !!!

I found myself thinking in bed last night about you - how a man so versed in the word of God can come out here boldly and say the things you have said and to be sincere it gave me the shivers. My advice to you when you read the Word is to ask for the help of the Holy Spirit to understand and see things the way you ought to see them.

God has given us several gifts and our gifts should be used in the edification of others. My dear brother you know the Word but quietly think about the end result of the liberty you have just given to people- liberty to sex up their partners if they intend to marry .... Seriously? Bearing in mind that all in a courtship relationship are intending to marry o

People don't be fooled premarital sex is SIN.

Think big -Ben Carson
Gifted hands- Ben Carson
Outliers-Malcolm Gladwell
Purpose driven life-Rick Warren
Your best life now- Joel Osteen
The penny- Joyce Myer

[/b]And of course the most influential hands down- the bible- esp the New Testament [b]

Goshen360: I have quoted it but here you have it again,

And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife. If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins. Exodus 22:16-17

In regards to the quoted verse since we are breaking down the Word into pieces "for supposed better understanding" lets break this one down.

If you read the verse carefully you would see that this is a consequence for an action and not necessarily the order of things. When you get punished it usually means you did something wrong. The man in this verse did something wrong; which was laying with a woman who was not legally his and the consequence of his action was to make her his wife or pay a monetary fine if her father refuses to give her to him in marriage.

Since we are breaking down words here again; the word seduce/entice as it is used in this context means to lead away from proper conduct , to lead astray e.t.c . So if premarital sex was the right thing to do it would not be described as leading astray.

Marriage like other covenants in the bible usually involves setting expectations and is also usually witnessed by people. So intention to marry and the covenant- man and wife are not the same thing!

Do not be deceived premarital sex ( sex before taking your vows/ making your covenants before God and man) is SIN . Sex is a bond that unifies man and wife not intendee' and intender'

Goshen360: We're saying the same thing bro but in different ways - I DO NOT SUPPORT JUMPING HERE AND THERE ON WOMEN. That's immorality, that's illicit sex but having pre-marital sex to whoever I'm to marry is NOT fornication (illicit, unapproved or unlawful sex) according to the verses I showed you. NO

What happens if you decide for whatever reason not to go on with the marriage? ( after all y'all say a broken relationship is better than a broken marriage)

I'm sorry if I sound blunt but....

I really do not give a blind monkey what the literal meaning of fornication or adultery is. I don't need a concordance to understand what pleases or displeases God. Jeez what is all this back and forth discussion on fornication and adultery being side to side in one verse? Again this is not about religious teachings or what not. I stress it again its not about the do's and dont's - Christ did away with the law. Go after relationship- love God then you would begin to understand what pleases and displeases him. What is the purpose of this discussion to inform, confuse or mislead?

The question is- why is sex sin? No it's not if it is in the context in which it was created for- marriage. Pre marital sex, fornication, adultery, homosexuality and ever other form of immorality is sin because it is disobedience against God. Shikena.

Don't focus on the sin or the several do's and dont's focus more on Jesus and the renewing of your mind. No amount of understanding of the definition of fornication can prevent you from falling. We tend to head in the direction of what we focus on- if you focus on not sinning you would continue to sin and sin takes you farther away from God who should have been your initial and continuous focus. Heb 12:2

Jesu olutoju eniyan sa re na re
Baba olutoju eniyan sa re na re

Wow ! Smh....

Love does not exist only between partners. So I disagree with the love is always mutual line.

God loves us dearly and how many of us love him back half as much? Love is a choice irregardless of how the other person feels or acts.

Although things are a lot better and seem to be the ideal when it is mutual. Mutuality is not a requirement for love.

My life is a light for Your cause
My will laid aside for Your call
And reserved are the depths of my heart
Only for You

I'm caught in the rhythms of grace
They overcome all of my ways
Realigning each step everyday
To live for Your glory

There's none beside You God
There's none beside You God

You're there in the dark of the night
While holding the sun and it's light
Through the triumph and trials alike
There's no-one beside You

Your voice called the stars by their name
'Cause You whispered them all to their place
To testify to Your wonder and praise
Both now and forever

There's none beside You God
There's none beside You God
I live my life to shine Your light
'Cause there's none beside You God

No eye has seen
No ear has heard
The depths of Your love, Lord
No mind can fathom
The love You deserve
How great You are

Very well said...

Lol- I read the comments on the first page of this thread and I had to go read Paul's twit again. Thank God for the comments on the second page- I was beginning to think otherwise.

People it's called reading between the lines or getting the bigger picture. Paul advices to marry a girl that is ready to go all the way with you.

Moreover those saying they cannot disobey their parents for love- come on now your not always obedient. You fall out sometimes jeez.

To those saying this is being foolish for love- haha sit down and think of all the 'ish you have been doing for your man and tell me if its normal...abeg park jor and stop being a hypo.

Love is sacrificial but then again some of my people' see this as mumuism'' smh

Happy birthday!

Word!

You stood before creation
Eternity within Your hand
You spoke the earth into motion
My soul now to stand

You stood before my failure
Carried the Cross for my shame
My sin weighed upon Your shoulders
My soul now to stand

So what can I say
What can I do
But offer this heart O God
Completely to You

So I'll walk upon salvation
Your Spirit alive in me
This life to declare Your promise
My soul now to stand

So what can I say
What can I do
But offer this heart O God
Completely to You

[/b]So I'll stand
With arms high and heart abandoned
In awe of the One who gave it all

So I'll stand
My soul Lord to You surrendered
All I am is Yours[b]

Helllll noooo- this is not it at all...Kai and my reaction has nothing to do with the girl. It's me- I just cannot wrap my head around this. Mmba!

Thank you Jesus

Aww see my loves working together...

Hmm.... This is the absolute NO NO for me....it would be hard for me to hear sorry in this situation and even if I do -life would be miserable for him- I would always remember and fret over the experience - he himself wouldn't feel comfortable coming close...

Hmm both versions are so true

Thank you Father...

Worship

Thank you Jesus

Goshen360: First, when I said filled with the Spirit (notice my capitalization here and in the comment you responded to) - That's how scripture distinguish between Holy Spirit and human or other evil spirits. By that Capitalization, I meant Spirit of God not spirit as in human spirit or other demonic/satanic spirit(s). I think you're the one mixing things up as you capitalized you "S" when you mentioned spirit of disobedience, lying, stealing etc.

Now, here is the truth you just said - "we know light and darkness can not co exist and whom the son of man sets free is free indeed". If Christ set us free and we're free INDEED. Why do we then attend further unending deliverance sessions year in, year out? This means what Christ did was free but NOT free INDEED.

@ Bold in black. I agree with you BUT NOT Christians.

@ Bold in red. When a Christian is born again and still indulges in some habits that doesn't glorify God, THAT'S NOT THE DEVIL ANYMORE, THAT'S THE WORK OF THE FLESH! Such Christian has to train and discipline his/her flesh, renew his/her mind through the word of God and prayer and fasting if possible. Such Christian has to put his/her body (UN-regenerated part) under subjection. THAT'S NOT THE DEVIL OR SATANIC BONDAGE, THAT'S TO CRUCIFY THE FLESH!...because your flesh as you said, is never born again and always at war with the spirit.

New Living Translation
Don't you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living. - Romans 6:16




@ Bold in black. So your interpretation of working out our salvation with fear and trembling means engaging in an UN-ending deliverance?

@ Bold in red. When I was a baby Christian (I do not claim to know it all now though), my former church always pray the prayer of Jabez in an attempt to break generational curse(s). When I understood what Christ did on the cross and have come to accept full redemption in Christ Jesus, I understand there's NO generational curse for those who are in Christ Jesus.

King James 2000 Bible
Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangs on a tree. - Galatians 3:13

In this verse, there's the part that says we're redeemed (past tense) from the curse of the law. However, there's a deeper or greater dimension BEYOND being redeemed from curse of the law and that's BEING MADE (Past tense) A CURSE. How can a Christian STILL carry curse when Christ has already being made a curse? When a Christian still carry so called generational curse, it's either such Christian doesn't know his/her right and privilege in Christ or such Christian is masquerading (I do not by any means judge). No Christian in the early Church ever went for constant deliverance session.




@ Bold in black. I agree with you and that's why we need the Holy Spirit to help us pray for we know not what to pray but the Spirit helps us to pray.

@ Bold in red. You don't believe in constant deliverance and yet you advocate deliverance for Christians. I agree that once delivered we must stay delivered just like once saved, we must stay saved. You already gave the solution or answer to how we as Christians can stay delivered - One has to constantly be in fellowship with God. The only I will add to that is that, we must be filled with the Spirit of God and allow the Spirit of God to guide and lead us.




@ Bold in black. But the deliverance session carried out in most churches are actually done by falling and catching people that wants to fall and displaying.

@ Bold in red. There's no such thing as spirit of laziness. Everything is not the devil. Most things are our flesh and our irresponsibility. Christian must take responsibility for the lives. If someone is lazy, that's not demon or any sort of satanic influence. As for our enemies, we know who we're in battle with as listed in Ephesians 6. Christ already defeated Satan and we walk in that victory.

@ Bold in green. When God saves a man and such man comes to Christ, he still have responsibility to subject his body. That's not God's responsibility anymore. We have to subject our flesh under control. The flesh is not born again and nothing good in the flesh. That a Christian is manifesting the works of the flesh is NOT demonic attack or any sort of satanic spell but such person allowed the flesh to rule over him/her.

I cannot respond to your post as I would like to but would go straight to the point on some of the highlighted issues.

Spirit whether capitalized or not is another non significant issue. The difference between the Spirit of God and different spirits' is very clear. The statement about playing with words has nothing to do with capital or small letter- I was implying more to the definition of deliverance. I repeat deliverance again is not all about the falling and shaking!

Deliverance is freedom from bondage. It's not only freedom from the devil it could be freedom from ones self or flesh. In as much as we want to sound like spiritual beings we are still living in a physical world and truth be told so that others can relate, learn and be encouraged.

Secondly the inference on the working your salvation with faith and trembling was for you to see the continuous effort that is required on our part as Christians.

About the baby christian and the prayer of Jabez- my point again there are different keys to open different doors. Using the prayer of Jabez for generational curses might not be as effective as praying a simple prayer tailored to your issue or problem. Reciting psalm 23 for safety would make more sence than using it as a prayer for deliverance - just saying. I'm not a fan of recited prayers.

Again I repeat I don't believe in constant deliverance but are people being constantly delivered everyday- yes I see it every time. This could be due to different reasons- it could be that the person does not have an understanding of what they are doing- for change or deliverance to occur one has to want it. It could be venturing back into sin or whatever was holding the person captive- and trust me this happens a lot even among the so called spirit filled Christians. 1 cor 10:12.
I cannot count how many spirit filled, tongue speaking, demon chasing men and women of God have had to go through deliverance time and time again.

In regards to laziness as a spirit- I actually smiled when I got there. My brother it is true as humans we need to take responsibilities for ourselves but let me make something clear. We as humans exist as body soul and spirit- these three parts work together as one. Think about it where do you think you get the ability to wake up early to pray, fast and so on- if it was left to my' flesh trust me I would sleep and laze in bed all day. But I have to put that into subjection and discipline myself to do the things that would build my spirit man .

Another way to look at it- the fruits of the spirit are love, joy, peace..... What are the fruits of the flesh?.....these are some of the spirits' that we need to be delivered from. 1sam 15:23 for example talks about the spirit of disobedience. Isa 61:3 talks about the spirit of heaviness- there are several others...

Lastly praise God , God has defeated satan and like you said we walk in that victory. However does this imply that we live in a trouble free world- of course not. So as Christians there is need to be delivered from the influence of satan not necessarily satan himself. David was close to Gods heart and he was always praying for deliverance. In Exodus 3; God delivered his own" from the Egyptians. My point being as long as we are here on earth Christians including spirit filled Christians need deliverance from one thing or the other.

There's something I need to note also - you made mention of God not having any responsibility in our flesh subjection. I beg to differ. Jesus Christ is at the center of it all. Trust me there is nothing you can do solely on your own especially when you are trying to live a life that is pleasing to God. This is another principle in Christianity that is often misunderstood. You are saved by grace and no amount of self discipline on your part could earn you the grace God has freely given. Now I'm talking from personal experience- things are a lot easier when you walk in the grace that God has freely given. God sees our very core and understands our weaknesses . Being self disciplined can take you a certain distance but relying solely on God to be disciplined would take you where you need to be.

Enough said- no amount of talk can change the worlds believe system you can only influence how people see things. At this point I think' the focus should be on love and reaching out to people not necessarily calling people or churches out. Let people experience God for who he is using his word as a guide to living their lives . Rules, doctrines and rituals are not as important as a personal relationship with God. When you are in close fellowship with God , you would know the areas in your life that need change/ deliverance.

Sorry I couldn't edit- too tired

Goshen360: I can't just understand where those who teach a Spirit filled Christian can be demonized and hence needs deliverance get such teaching from. Show me one Christian in the early church that became a Christ and Spirit filled and still was attending more than one deliverance session. You people should just stop insulting the finished work of Christ.

May God help the church.

Key word spirit filled. I think we play with words a lot. There are different kinds so spirits/ demons. Spirit of disobedience, lying, stealing etc. True a spirit filled Christian should be filled with the spirit of God and we know light and darkness can not co exist and whom the son of man sets free is free indeed. However the key word there is should.

Deliverance to some could mean freedom from satanic bondage of some sort and to others it could be from minor habits that do not glorify God. In as much as we hate to admit it- we are spirit, soul and body. Our flesh is in constant battle with the spirit. So even though God did it already we have to continually renew ourselves to overcome this battle with the flesh- that again could be deliverance to some in fact to all.

We truly are saved/ delivered by grace but I am of the believe that we need to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. In winning any battle in life- you need to be fully aware of your opponents. For example an opponent could be generational issues such as poverty, premature death, barrenness, working like an elephant eating like an ant syndrome' If you are not aware of these things you could fall victim to them. If cancer runs in a family it is only wise to have periodical health screenings.

We have a lot of dedicated Christians but only a few understand the relationship that exists with their creator and the principles in this relationship. There are different keys to different doors- I may be praying a instead of praying b and that avails nothing. I don't believe in constant deliverance on a particular issue but once delivered one has to stay delivered. One has to constantly be in fellowship with God and not give the opponent a foothold because if given they would return in multitudes.

The prayer of deliverance does not necessarily have to involve falling down and displaying it could be a simple prayer of- father deliver me from my enemies or father deliver me from the spirit of laziness - this actually shows you acknowledging your imperfections and your reliance on the power of God to deliver. Sitting down and saying God already did it is not necessarily wrong but you have to make sure you have the faith to back off that statement otherwise you would just be pilling up demons.

Thank you Jesus for your grace...
You are more than sufficient for me...

I am wonderfully made
I am fearfully made
I belong to God
I resemble him

That's why the [/b]devil trembles
whenever he hears me singing
I'm Gods own
I'm the apple of his eyes[b]