₦airaland Forum

A [size=18pt]faith healer[/size] donating money to a hospital? Later he will come and say that he raised 6 Nigerians from the cemetery last week.

DoctorAlien:
You really cannot prove that any man, or indeed any group of men ever said that they saw something, which they know they didn't see, and then were willing to die for such a claim, even though they knew it was a lie, can you?

No. What I have seen is a group of people who were willing to kill themselves, and others, over a delusion. Suicidal tendencies don't affect the dimensions of the truth.
Humans can be willing to die for something and STILL BE WRONG.

Was he related to current starting Miami Dolphins running back Jay Ajayi?

Hottest running back in the NFL right now.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAwdHxQ3O2U

What would Jesus do?

Deposit cash or tell the whole hospital to go home?


Maybe 10 patients were healed at the hospital and the others didn't have enough faith.

DoctorAlien:
Feel free to drop your comments.

A few objections. First one.

The evidence that Jesus resurrected is the fact that 12 men were willing to die for that belief?

[b]

Eyewitnesses to the Resurrection and Miracles of Jesus Christ
The entire framework of the Bible is based on reliable eyewitness accounts, [size=18pt] which are the strongest form of legal evidence. [/size]These accounts include multiple eyewitness testimonies of the unique birth, life, miracles, death and bodily resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ.
Eyewitnesses included many people who knew Christ face to face for three years, such as the Apostles, so they could not have mistaken His identity. They saw, heard, touched, ate and drank with Christ after his bodily resurrection for 40 days. This overwhelming physical evidence overcame their initial incredulity and disbelief.
They were so sure of their experience that they were also willing to die for what they knew to be true. Some people may sometimes die for a lie that they believe to be true, but for a large group of individuals to all willingly endure severe persecution throughout their lives and die torturous deaths for something they know to be a lie (which they certainly would have known), doesn’t happen.

—[/b]

I've seen 20 men blow themselves up thinking that the creator of the universe desired it. You should know better.



https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-the-eyes-have-it/

[b]Why Science Tells Us Not to Rely on Eyewitness Accounts


By Hal Arkowitz, Scott O. Lilienfeld on January 1, 2010


IN 1984 KIRK BLOODSWORTH was convicted of the rape and murder of a nine-year-old girl and sentenced to the gas chamber—an outcome that rested largely on the testimony of five eyewitnesses. After Bloodsworth served nine years in prison, DNA testing proved him to be innocent. Such devastating mistakes by eyewitnesses are not rare, according to a report by the Innocence Project, an organization affiliated with the Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law at Yeshiva University that uses DNA testing to exonerate those wrongfully convicted of crimes. Since the 1990s, when DNA testing was first introduced, Innocence Project researchers have reported that 73 percent of the 239 convictions overturned through DNA testing were based on eyewitness testimony. One third of these overturned cases rested on the testimony of two or more mistaken eyewitnesses. How could so many eyewitnesses be wrong?[/b]

More objections to follow.

Julian08:
Just what kind of evidence can we all agree on to be a good evidence for the existence of a god? (This question is particularly for the atheist on here.)

Whether it is a voice coming to you in your sleep (or perhaps when you are awake), a figure showing up in the sky and declaring 'itself' a god; Is it not subject to your own interpretation?

You should know that atheists contest the gods that have been defined ALREADY in books.

With that being said, any serious magic will do, provided it can be replicated for the skeptics.

From the Blaze, a conservative organization:

Americans are more likely to agree with Karl Marx, Bernie Sanders than the Bible, new study finds


Americans are more likely to support statements made by Karl Marx and self-described socialist Sen. Bernie Sanders (Vt.) than they are statements from the Bible, according to a new survey.

The findings were detailed in the Annual Report on U.S. Attitudes Towards Socialism, which was conducted by YouGov.

The polling organization asked Americans aged 16 and older four differing statements, one from Sanders, one from Marx, one from economist Milton Friedman and a quote from the Bible:

Bernie Sanders: “A nation will not survive morally or economically when so few have so much, while so many have so little.”

Milton Friedman: “A society that puts equality before freedom will get neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both.”

Karl Marx: “From each according to his abilities, to each according to his need.”

The Bible: “If any would not work, neither should he eat.”


According to the poll, Americans are more likely to agree with Sanders, Marx and Friedman than they were the Bible. Of those polled, 71 percent said they agreed with Sanders, 68 said they agreed with Friedman and 64 percent said they agreed with Marx. Only 53 percent said they agreed with the scripture verse, which is found in 2 Thessalonians 3:10.

Among millennials, agreement with the Bible was the lowest of all generations polled at just 48 percent. Agreement with Sanders, Marx and Friedman was about the same or a little lower compared to the average of all generations.

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2016/11/02/americans-are-more-likely-to-agree-with-karl-marx-bernie-sanders-than-the-bible

TomHagen:
[size=18pt]It's my personal opinion.[/size] The second part of my post (which you conveniently left out) assumed that they are in control of their faculties. This would then mean that they have decided to trust their definition of the unlimited wisdom. There's no difference between me and them really. The only difference is what or prefarably WHO we have decided to regard as the unlimited wisdom. We have only directed our faiths at different entities.

Personal opinions don't apply to such matters. You said so yourself. You can only have an opinion about things that you understand, and unlimited wisdom happens to be beyond you.

With that being said, I admire your honesty.

TomHagen:
I believe that majority of suicide attacks (if not all) are simply a result of brainwashing to the point of mindlessness. This would explain why the very educated terrorists leaders; Abubakar-al Baghdadi, Ayman-al-Zawahiri, Osama Bin Laden et al do not carry out suicide attacks.

Oh, so suicide bombings don't make sense to you because the leaders don't do it? But you just told me that human wisdom is not sufficient to discern the workings of an unlimited mind. It's ironic that you are telling me now that jihadists are mindless and brainwashed. How can you make that statement in good faith, when you yourself have yet to understand unlimited wisdom?

Do you possess unlimited wisdom?

LifestyleTonite:
so, how come Muslims kill for him? [size=18pt]Can't he do it himself(am talking about Allah)[/size]?

Read your bible. God was allowing entire armies to fall at the hands of Israel. But this is entirely besides the point.

The point is that God can also speak to each human individually without referring people to the Quran or Bible or to clerics. But he didn't, we are left with human beings to speak on his behalf.

So don't tell me things that God could do better. If he was entertaining your suggestions, then he wouldn't be God. Questions?

TomHagen:
The highlighted is key. You and I cannot know what unlimited wisdom is. What if the wise thing is to kill those children? Our limited wisdom says otherwise but what does unlimited wisdom say? We do not know.

I would love to hear your opinion on suicide bombings. Is it possible that suicide bombings are a show of compassion from an entity with unlimited wisdom?

TomHagen:
You cannot know what a ''compassionate God'' is capable of because you do not have an ''uncompassionate God'' to compare Him to... His thoughts are higher than your thoughts so it follows that His idea of compassion will be different from yours.

That's even more reason why we should scrutinize the person who claim to have met a compassionate God, don't you think? Someone has met this compassionate God, and that person described moments which were in juxtaposition to that character trait.

My idea of compassion is to spare children from violent deaths. What you're saying is that violent deaths can be a compassionate thing provided it is used strategically by an entity with unlimited wisdom.

These ideas are all linguistically oxymoronic. That's like a Muslim suggesting that suicide bombing is the way that Allah, the Compassionate shows compassion. Select an adjective that is consistent with the idea being described. If a God killed 42 children for making noise, don't call that God compassionate. You're abusing the Queen's language. There are plenty of words in English to describe a God that kills children.

TomHagen:
The highlighted shows this is not for everyone. Thee means you. His talking to somebody. So whence cometh the ALL LOVING?

Just so you know, you are the most matured Christian that I've encountered on Nairaland. You've always stuck to the topics, without being afraid to address even the most sacrilegious topics. I am impressed, no homo.

TomHagen:
This is because you know figures generally and what they are and how they operate. A person who has never seen figures before would not know this. Have you seen a God before? Any God; whether compassionate, kind, evil, malevolent, etc. Have you?

I also know linguistics generally and understand that words imply ideas. A Compassionate God will not kill 42 children for telling the truth, albeit in a disrespectful manner. You're not using the appropriate adjective.

But leaving this aside, the fact that we have the Bible means that over 10 people have met a God or heard from one. You believe their stories, and wonder how people who have never met or heard a God can say that he won't kill 42 children.

You should apply the same standards of credulity towards the people who have met a God. I personally have never met one. But if you do meet one, you cannot call it compassionate AND at the same time describe how it sanctioned the deaths of 42 children for calling a bald man BALD.

TomHagen:
How do you know what ''an actual compassionate God'' is capable of if you haven't met one before''?

It's possible to know what something is NOT even without seeing it. It's just the way that languages work.

3453/47 does not equal a billion. Even without solving the problem, you already know figures that cannot be the correct answer.

LifestyleTonite:
I Now understand you.

So, what you are saying is that the Syrian Muslim refugees are only following Allah's command by Killing the infidel Europeans who welcomed them openly when their Arab brothers didn't.

Can you now see how awful Allah and his followers are?

You describe God as awful? The same God who killed 42 children for saying that a bald man was bald?

God can do what he likes to people who disrespect him.

LifestyleTonite:
I don't understand you.

Muslims are only suicidal for God, because they REALLY REALLY REALLY believe that God created the whole universe and wrote a book called the Quran.

In the Bible, we are told that God can send one human being to kill another.

Muslims are only doing the work of God who has ordered the deaths of the unbelievers. It is not for you to understand.

Allah's way is mysterious. There's no point being God if you have to keep meeting the expectations of ordinary humans. You must do as God ordered in the word of God.

LifestyleTonite:
How many Syrian refugees have Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Pakistan, Iraq, Iran etc accepted?

None.

Yet, the millions of Syrian Muslim refugees who make it into Europe, a Christian land, still have the nerve to carry out terrorist acts, rape and murder in those countries that accepted them.

So you shouldn't obey God again because you're in Paris or London?

Deicide:
Lol Syria way Bomb to them Na like Biscuit

His followers are still defending this one kobo prophecy and most of them attended primary school.

#Imconfused

Richirich713:
It doesn't matter who u serve, what matters is who is the true God and creator nd if he is commanding u to kill someone.

So the TRUE creator will send out contract killers? There's no point in looking for the true creator before you murder on his behalf, because the true creator will always end up being your own god.

No wahala. Jesus walked on water before, and he's alive. Expect a miracle.

Bomb going off in Syria is like saying the president will eat food today.

rusher14:
He had the inability to work without an aide.

Realise the use of English is deliberate as the writer spelt walk perfectly in second statement.

The exact thought had occurred to me.

TomHagen:
How can you say the Creator is divorced from the truth when you don't know what the truth is?

That's why civilized people have a discussion. So that we can even out the rough edges.

They do not declare their opinion to be the unwavering word of the creator of the universe. It's the ultimate form of aggression masquerading as civility.

TomHagen:
It is that the name of God be glorified.

Veracity notwithstanding. How can a real creator be divorced from the truth?

TomHagen:
They do not go into such details simply because the aim is to not to satisfy skeptics. This point keeps eluding you. It's not for you.

So the testimony is for people who already believe that it happens? How appropriate.

Deicide:
Nigga to Buy Shoe!!

The amputee is called the curate in the story. No name, even the shoe vendor is anonymous.

The leg supposedly grew out inside of the shoe and the vendor didn't commot run. Money cannot buy your life anonymous vendor, next time a man with no legs come to try on shoes, call witnesses.

TomHagen:
How do people without legs today transport themselves? I am honestly not interested in discussing a story you consider fiction with you.

There are different kinds of amputations. Knee, ankle, or hip? The author doesn't say. I'm guessing that it was the ankle, because he stuck his foot inside the shoe and it grew out there, in the presence of the anonymous shoe vendor.
You should know by now that people will lie as if they're only eating food. The pastor who prayed for the limb was renowned for punching and slapping people on stage, all in an attempt to inflict pain on the demons that were bothering his members.

TomHagen:
No difference. Believers will accept it and skeptics will scoff as usual.

And what do you think? Keep in mind that our own Nairaland faith healer, the one who has a Resurrection under his belt, has NEVER been called out by a single so called Christian here on Nairaland.

Do you believe that Steve Wigglesworth sent a man without legs to buy shoes? Here is an excerpt from the link.

While staying in the home of a curate of the local Church of England, [Wigglesworth] and the curate were sitting together talking after supper. No doubt the subject of their conversation was that the poor fellow had no legs. Artificial limbs in those days were unlike the sophisticated limbs of today.
Wigglesworth said to the man quite suddenly (which he often did when ministering in cases like this), ‘Go and get a pair of new shoes in the morning.’

The poor fellow thought it was some kind of joke. However, after Wigglesworth and the curate had retired to their respective rooms for the night, God said to the curate, ‘Do as My servant hath said.’ What a designation for any person–My servant! God was identifying Himself with Wigglesworth.

There was no more sleep for the man that night. He rose up early, went downtown, and [size=18pt]stood[/size] waiting for the shoe shop to open. The manager eventually arrived and opened the shop for business. The curate when in and sat down.

Presently and assistant came and said, ‘Good morning, sir. Can I help you?’

The man said, ‘Yes, would you get me a pair of shoes, please?’

‘Yes, sir. Size and color?’

‘The man hesitated. The assistant then saw his condition and said, ‘Sorry, sir. We can’t help you.’

‘Its all right, young man. But I do want a pair of shoes. Size 8, color black.’

How is the man with no legs transporting himself around the community, standing for hours, and sitting down?

Tosinex:
In one of my post i said something, attimes i dnt nid to see it, all i need to do is just to think abt it...

Green Lantern. Our body is designed to deal with the perils of living on earth. Sometimes you can get your mind to ignore the confines of your body. This occurs naturally during sleep.

TomHagen:
Read the link.

How much did you really investigate the faith healer in question? The man died in 1947!!! Look up his wiki page, he was a drunk version of William Branham who happened to be alive then.

We have on Nairaland today Christians who claim to have resurrected Nigerians. What is the difference between their claims and the one made by Steve Wigglesworth.

The matter of the voluntary enrollment into a mandatory friendship pact with an omnipotent AND omniscient entity.

What I never managed to understand was the saga of recurrent forgiveness following one's enrollment into that mandatory friendship pact. It's like receiving the green light to commit every possible atrocity against other humans.